320: Final Destination

Welcome to The Cult Classic Horror Show! Every week you can have the conversations you've always wanted to have about the films you love. Get rid of your distractions and prepare yourself. All right, welcome. Welcome everybody to the cold corner show Danny bone in here with you guys. Gotty boated with you guys. You are the blue brothers and the Ram and Carmelo chimera. Oh, baby. So sorry Rob for interrupting your deep baseball conversation.

You're having with Scotty. Yeah. Rob and I were having a all-star voting conversation about the all-star week coming up here. So does he ever make any sense last year shame a clannet hand maybe all-star. Yeah. And he was out. He blew his elbow out like week six. So that a resume. I'm all classic. He still gets credited for the all-star game, but a reserve took a spot, I think. We're talking about MLB all shit that I can't vote. That's what it's for.

So all right guys, final destination. Final destination. We're finally here. You've finally arrived. It was where is your final destination. That's a final classic. You know, I relistened to an old episode. I was talking to Carmelo everyone about this

before we started recording. And we literally had the not argument, but just brought up what constitutes a cold classic core because we were covering a blare which 2016 and all of us were admittedly like, oh, I don't know if this is cold classic or and we were like, I don't know is so cold classic or and I was like, nah, it's not classic. We use quotes from saw at the end of our outro. So I mean, anyway, we cover everything.

It doesn't have to be cold classic or doesn't be good in this case. No, it doesn't. And all of the cases of Rob's movies. Well, another depressing act is that and I was, you know, you see these things online. It's like, oh, you live closer to the, you know, ancient Egypt is closer to like modern day than, you know, they were the dinosaurs or something like that. But dinosaurs didn't exist. Well, right. They were made up by the liberals in order to make us all godless. But the the.

No, it was a mega saw gay. No, that's a COVID vaccine. The COVID vaccine was to make us gay. Yeah. That's right. I was trying to make is in 2007 when saw came out 2008 or something like that earlier. The first one. No, we were all in stone. 2001. I think this is the first one. Something like that. I was nice. So how do you like 2004? Oh, okay. Okay. Back then, right, the classics, Freddie and Jason were what? 20 years old, 30 years old. That's true.

Bad news for everybody. We didn't know because it's 2024. So I came out as far as old movies had come out. That's true. Especially final destination. Make it 2000. Yeah. Final destination is now old enough to vote. It's old enough to drink. It can be drafted. It can't run to car yet. But it's getting. And it has four sequels and has another one on the way next year. I hear. Yeah. So here we are. As well. I'm not saying they're all good fun. They are.

They're can't be fun. If you don't get high school kids, we're going to open thoughts. I do think that yes, we are. It's entertaining. I like it. Ross. Just saying. I think that it was entertaining. I like the idea of it. There were definitely some parts that made me laugh where they were either talking the script or, you know, had to get some exposition in there. So there's some of those where I was like, yeah, this

could have been written a little bit better. But the general idea of it is entertaining. Like, when they repeat the premise of the movie in every single scene, it's predictable. It is. I give it. I give you that. It was more like when you could tell they were doing stupid things to get exposition across like the springy head statute to get this thing across that is mind's all in

place. And then randomly at the end of that conversation, he's like, maybe if I just saw a Todd again, I would know more than they just go break in and look at his dead body. Yeah. Right. What? It's no reason to break in. And then Tony Todd, the partition is just so nice to them. Doesn't get mad at them. He just scares me. Yes. So there were some holes that there were some things to be improved. But I think in general, it was entertaining.

I mean, I remember watching this. This was our first year high school when I was a freshman. And we all went to the theaters and saw this. And it was, it was awesome. And freaked me out a little bit. And, you know, now it doesn't really hold up to what it was back then. But it was. And I remember liking a lot back then. And I thought the sequels were pretty good too. I just remember like the second one has like that traffic accident with like the

log truck and all that all shit happens and stuff. But I thought it was pretty good. Rob, you're, yeah, Rob, you're telling me that that high school rob fresh pack of smokes. We know you saw this. We know you saw this. You didn't enjoy getting a hand job to 2000's final destination in theaters. It's Evan. No, no, I was doing all that to 1998's Josh Hartnett's classic, the faculty. Well, faculty of course, or urban legends. We covered that. That's a great movie. We have it.

So like final, final, final destination is like in music terms, the crazy town of like early 2000's horror. Yeah. Not very good. It's super repetitive. And as soon as anything comes out after it, you completely forget about it. You had like the faculty, urban legends, urban legends so much better than the other legends. I like urban legends. Speaking of mean, this is all in Devon, Salwar, whatever's best movie is still Casper. Yeah. Or Idol Hands. This doesn't change. Or Idol Hands. I don't.

I don't. I don't. I don't. Carmell likes every movie that's ever been shown except for X versus believe. Not poultry guys that fully, well, yeah, yeah. Did you guys hear by the way the good news about that not to become the X versus podcast again, but this is important, fucking. Oh, my. Mike Flanagan. Yeah, we talked about it when you weren't here last time. Yeah. I think it's going to be a little career. I think it's going to be career poison for Mike Flanagan. I know.

Hopefully you do something with it, though. He'll do something great. Doctor. I think if they let I love Dr. sleep, but it completely tanked and bombed. And other movie completely tanked and I don't guys. I saw fall of the house of usher. I just watch. I watched every one of his many series. I think he's the most talented writer and director of horror right now. Period. That's out. Right. I just watch them. Yeah. If anyone's up just something with the exercise, it's him. Well, did Dr. sleep.

Bob House is going to have to. Oh, yeah. Oh, we know that. Oh, it complete. Right. I don't know if it ball, but it just didn't do the numbers. I thought it was. I saw it twice in theaters. So that meant it did well. Oh, and if you get a chance to watch the director's. We did we cover Dr. sleep? Oh, okay. No, that's. It just came out not too long ago. Yeah. 2019. But yeah, no, no, no. It's a sequel to our call class. It's true. It's true. Yeah. The budget was. Final destination.

But it was 45 million. 45 to 55 million. And it did 72.3 million. So. Oh, okay. Yeah. And then we're advertising and all the stuff they put into it. They considered it a bomb. Okay. I love my planning. And I think I've watched usher twice. I've watched Hill House at least four times. Wow. I think I think he's incredible. I think midnight society is brilliant. And that folks already canceled it, which sucks. It was awesome. Really? Yeah. I think I'm in that club. In that club.

And because of like, are you afraid of the dark? It was amazing. It was really, really, really good. Um, I just think when there's that much money involved, especially in a horror movie title, I don't think they're going to let him do everything he wants to do. Because like Carmelo said, they paid what? $500 million. Yeah, I was absurd. Just to say it's an exorcist movie. Yeah. The only thing I would argue is that they clearly made believer by committee. Like that was a corporate fucked up.

Like someone was like, this movie was too expensive for us to let the director do it. We have to get our hands involved. Maybe they'll learn their fucking lesson and keep their goddamn hands out of Mike Flanagan's way. Who knows better in most cases than a director that has a vision for the movie. I why do the producers? I guess they've helmed a lot of successful films and they think they know what's marketable. But you don't see it as a film. They see it as a product.

And so when your product cost in licensing alone, $133 million, let alone the shooting budget. Yeah. Every fucking executive in that in that project was like, well, this is a product. How do we make it more marketable? How do we make it more inclusive? How do we make it more? All these things that they thought would make it popular, but instead just made it vacant. So ridiculous.

Yeah. And the long house used to be the king of turning nothing into something, but I think it's more difficult to turn something into something. Yeah. You spent all the money already up front. I love Blumhouse and I'm not going to try to knock their successes, but they are, they're suffering from the problem of success and the problem.

They had to, they had to have lost close to half a billion dollars by now between between the Halloween movies, which by halfway through part two and three, the numbers just fell apart. And it was so bad that they fired David Gordon Green. Oh, yeah. I don't know if he's going to be working a lot since they're suffering from success. Carmelo, I was actually curious about you finishing that thought.

Oh, well, my thought is like, you know, they start off with a couple of dark horse home runs, paranormal activity and all of a sudden, you know, you make this tremendous profit. Now you've got this money that you can, it's the rock. You can build your church on as they say, right? But then it's, it switches, right? It stops being, hey, we took our chance on these cool new, eclectic projects and it starts being like any other product. This was the formula that worked.

Sinister is a great example because sinister is the formula done perfectly. And then they were like that, make that again and again and again, because any business that tries to scale tries to replicate. And when you try to replicate, you lose quality because you're trying to fit everything into your little boxes. So this was exorcist done by way of the Blumhouse formula. And it's not just that.

If you saw Night Swim or if you saw imaginary, these were the Blumhouse formula, the same formula that made sinister special is now a die cast color by numbers over use movie on the reverse side. You have an 824 who has not gotten there yet and is still in that making really weird eclectic movies phase. And some of those are really hitting big because they're different. And I think what Carl Elos saying is is true because I still think it is just as true today as it was 30 years ago.

It's war to mouth. You can have all the advertising and stuff that you want. Furiosa, which I haven't seen yet. And I, and I'm a staunch defender of Furie Road. I love that movie Mad Max. But you made a movie for $500 million and everybody that would go to watch that movie told you don't do that. Please don't do that. We're not going to see that movie. It's lost over $300 million. Yeah, we're on the other hand. People are like parallel to Kibbe. You have to see it. It's so weird.

Yeah. You got to see any of the points. And like even hereditary and midsummer and all those are not exactly my, they're not exactly my cup of tea. I saw both of them in theater and I never go to the theater because everybody's got to see everyone said got to see. You got to see it. I showed up one same with long legs now. Yeah. Yeah. But who said it about night swim or imaginary? Yeah. I'm thinking on them. This year's I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything about it. Were they even bad?

They're on streaming and I still haven't seen them. We're just nothing special at all. I left the movie and I was like, all right, that was a movie and I will never watch it. But nothing. Yeah. Like paranormal activity I'll put on all day every day. Neon's another one that's popping up a lot. And actually, I'll ask our stepdad Big Scott was saying they met someone in Mexico on vacation that was like a higher up at Neon and was like, oh, or are there daughter was or something like that?

It's like, oh, tell me get my daughter call or something like that. So we want to do that. We're not. We're not. We're not like late like late night with the devil too. And so great example. I mean, it got away now. Everyone had to see it. You know, we're in mouth. Rob texted me and said, go see it. It's true. It's true. I went like the next day I went to see it because if Rob said it was awesome, I knew it would have to be and it was fucking great.

Yeah. That's been shutters biggest opening, right? I believe so far. I think so. I believe that's probably a final destination was it was. Well, we're going to get into it now. And it freaking rock it in the box. We're getting in. See, almost the car Mello night swam night swam was the other one this year. It's got white rustle in it. It wasn't a bad cat. I like why Russell. He did that World War II. I don't know where Wolf movie or no, that weird World War II movie.

But I just put them on my list because again, I have to remember to watch these things because like, you know, like you said, it's paint by numbers and people forget about them. And there's been a lot that I just haven't watched this year. Yeah. I'll wait for them to come out and then when every single person hates them, I know it's probably not. Yeah. But that's just the problem of scale in any business.

Once you start scaling, you have to rely on replicating something as close as possible to what worked. Totally. And that just kills ingenuity. It's like the exact opposite of film. It's the exact opposite of what. Well, all right, final destination. Most people have never really wants to hear about Alex. This is real. Alex. This is real. Let's jump into it. Let's get a little breakdown, a little rundown, a little synopsis.

And by the way, the old episode I listened to had a very thorough Rob's rundown, which was very entertaining. Oh, yes. I miss it a lot. So I would have to layer once 2016. Yeah, that was good. You did a I would have to start watching these movies again to do the rundown. You do it. You've seen photos stations so many times though. All right. You're not watching this on YouTube. You're missing out because our reactions to basically everything Rob says are my favorite part of the show.

Because right now, if I wish if I were a screen sharing, I'm still looking at the A L, the All Star ballot. Yeah. Yeah, we were just discussing that. And I'm still pissed off that I can't vote for a picture. So well, let's let's let's let's just move you about Carvello. All right. In final destination, teenager Alex Browning and his class are going to Paris on a field trip when because that's what you do. You do some of your trips. They're senior trips.

I think it was a little more relevant in the older times. My step that went on a senior choir trip to Spain, Austria. This is a public high school trip, right? They're not in college. No, no, I think my high school didn't, but some like my friends' daughter is going to Germany or something like that in a couple years. Well, private school does she go to? No, it's a public school, but not a public school in Chicago where we can't. And barely afford the bulletproof armor we need.

Public school in like rural Indiana where they're like, are we going to do key wars? Is here? So how the devil talks to you? That's right. That's right in Chicago. We don't, that's a problem. We don't have gotten our schools in Chicago. So and God is nowhere to be found in this movie. All the only God in this movie is death. And Alex and his segue Carvello. Thank you. I'm trying to get us on track because we're 16 minutes in and I'm not doing this inopsis. I wanted to hear more of our car mill.

Let's get through this atheism. You know, I'm glad you asked about that, Rob. And I've got a lot of how-takes about racial issues as well. I'd like to share with you. But it's not bad. Carvello. Carvello sent me an invite to a Facebook page. All lives matter. I haven't accepted it yet. There's only one. Oh, life matters. And it's about me. It's about me. It's fine. Okay. Okay. All right. Final destination. These fucking spoiled kids are getting on their field trip to Paris.

When the fucking plane blows up, they all die. They burn a death. It's horrible. But wait, it was all just a dream. Alex has this premonition. He freaks out. And like the FAA does. They throw you off the plane and put you on the no-fly list. So a bunch of kids get thrown off. They're all pissy. And then sure enough, the plane blows up just as he predicted. And everyone's like, oh, boy, I've got this new lease on life.

And then they all start dying one by one in the exact order in which they would have died on the plane. And Alex and the just repellent Ellie Carter, who I can't stand, are trying to figure out what's going on. And fortunately, the Mortician Tony Todd has some strong theories that he's very glad to share with them that they upset death to death. And that death is now trying to, of course, correct a little bit. And they're all going to die eventually. And that sucks for them.

So they do their best to try to cheat death. And it looks like maybe they're going to pull it off. But you just can't get away from death. It's the whole horror movie villains we've ever explored. You just can't beat this one. Nope. Nope. That's a massive one. That's a massive one. Yeah. What's some numbers here? Well, numbers. Release date, March 17, 2000. Budget was 23 million. Worldwide gross was 112 million. So they did very good. Awesome. Kind of a first movie of its kind.

I can kind of say that. But 98 minutes rated R and did pretty well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well. They'll be get into the deeds. That's given the deeds side note we did. We interviewed or I did. Kersmith a few years back on this podcast. If you guys want to go back and listen to the interview, he plays Carter. Oh, yeah. He plays Carter. Yeah. I don't even ask for a Carter. I don't even recall the reason we interviewed him. I think it was because he was in a one of those.

You want to go to the blue movies? Yeah. The Blumhouse Hulu collaboration movie. They did a bunch of, I don't know if it was a movie, but it was the Into the Dark series where they were. A lot of them. Yeah. I interviewed with someone throughout that series, too. It was some other guy. Yeah. And we, I didn't watch a whole lot of those. And some of them were okay. But we got some weird and cool interviews out of that because we kept getting sent those from my publicists.

And one of them was Kersmith. One of them was also Creed Braden that I interviewed on an episode from the office. From the office. Yeah. He was cool. And there's a few others, too. But, but anyways, side note, you can go listen to our interview with Kersmith, if you'd like. Um, book you, Carter. I'm going to start. I'm going to start. You guys can see. Uh, I saw a little bit. Sort of. Oh, there he is. There he is. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. Oh, well, let's start from the beginning.

So we have writer, creators James Wong, not James Wan. Which is so funny. I, I got confused. I'm like, what James Wan, I'm like, oh, wait, Wong. I see. And Glenn Morgan. So if those names sound familiar, you're probably a fan of the ex files. As I know, Carmelo has been. Yeah. Just balls deep in for a while now. Yeah. Are you still? Yeah. Well into season three, but I slowed down because some of the shows I was in the middle of have come back like Game of Thrones and the boys are back. Oh, nice.

So I'm kind of, you know, split in time between them. Um, all right. I was edible. He's got some side side action besides ex files. But uh, Wong and Morgan were a dynamic creative team who spent a year and a half working on some of the most beloved episodes of the ex files. There's like the lone gunman, tombs, Luther Lee Bog, Skinner and William and Margaret and Melissa Scoli are all characters they created for the show.

Uh, perhaps most notably Wong and Morgan wrote the ex files episode beyond the sea, which was the first episode of the show to receive notable critical claim beyond the sci-fi genre. And the first episode with serious character development for Jillian Anderson's character. Hmm. Scoli. Yeah. And then Wong and Morgan left the series to create their own show called Space above and beyond. But unfortunately the show was short lived. Then they came back for the tenth season of ex files back in 2016.

Uh, Wong wrote the second episode of the short season and Morgan wrote the fourth episode. And actually it would be an ex file spec script that led to the creation of final destination. Really? Yeah. So. So this movie wasn't good enough to be made into an ex file in the episode. Well, in a way, it wasn't really in the ex files farm system, so to speak. I'll explain it now. So we know farm systems, Rob. Yes. Like my, my baseball reference. Yeah. There you go. That's good.

Just for Randy and Rosalina needs to go until he starts hitting over 250. Come on, Randy. So the original idea for the movie came from Jeff Riddick who wrote a spec script for ex files long ago in order to just get an agent, which he did. But he never submitted the script to the ex files instead, um, upon the advice of a colleague at New Line Cinema, probably like the guy that gets Bob Shay's coffee, Bob Shay. He wrote a treatment for a feature film using that, that idea.

New Line bought the treatment and asked him to write an original draft of the script. Previous to this, Riddick had started his relationship with New Line after writing a spec script for a nightmare on Elm Street film. He loved the movies a lot and there one inspired him to go to go into writing and into film. He sent the script to New Line and was told they don't accept unsolicited material. Then he wrote them a nasty letter saying that he's been a, I've been a loyal fan of New Line.

And the least they can do is read his script. This is all making sense. They get told the script. None of this, none of this is unbelievable. This is definitely the person that announces in the Facebook group that he's leaving. Yeah. Yeah. So you mean like what someone puts final episode is their name on their podcast? Is that yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I keep trying. I keep trying. But so we're lucky to let you go. You can never leave. There's a script. They read his script.

He received encouraging notes, including telling him to keep trying. He eventually landed an internship in marketing at New Line, which opened the door for his writing career. So fast forward, by the way, we're a riddock. Then the film got picked up by New Line. Ridic had to detach himself from the project because he knew his ideas were going to get rewritten, especially as a new writer.

And that's where he just tried to focus on the movie just being the best it could be, despite some ideas moving away. So his his script featured death as an unforeseen force, which we see in the movie a little bit. There's that way through the editor vibe. Yeah. The gas. I'm glad they lost that actually. If I remember to sequels, don't have that. They don't have that. Yeah. You know, she just happens, right? Yeah. Seeing it again, I would prefer shit to just happen.

And I am on the fence about like things resetting themselves, like how the water comes out and it sucks back into the toilet, you know? Right. Why is death covering its tracks? Why does death want to frame somebody? Yeah. You're shit. I don't even look like here's accidents. Yeah. Yeah. Death doesn't care if his death looked like a suicide or not. Right. And in all the later ones, it does not cover its track. It doesn't. I'm going to have to revisit. I don't think I've seen all of them.

I've seen. Because no, it would still be an accident. He slipped in the water. The only thing death is doing by pulling the water back is fucking framing Alex, which is like an extra level of fuck you that this kid is not. Yeah. He really did. He really did. He was dying. The kid he's always got me with these movies is like, we almost all of us die eventually. So you know, present company excluded, obviously. Of course. Of course. Everyone else dies and it will win eventually.

So that's what always got me is like, what are you going to do? Like, she didn't tell you die because that's how it was going to end anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the first draft of the script, the characters were all adults, but new line cinema felt teenagers would be, would be better choice after the success of scream. And then the studio. So they brought in, they brought the final script to Wong and Morgan who rewrote parts of the script.

Yeah. That's partly why this movie reminds me of that whole era. It's like, I grew up on screen, final destination, urban legend. And yeah, we compare those movies to the 80s and we're like, oh, these are newer horror movies. They're not the classics. Well, now they are. Now they are. Now, do you guys feel like sometimes these days when I see a film that is mostly cast as all high school kids, I sort of, it's at first. It's a little bit of a turn out for me.

Like, I don't really want to watch it that bad. But of course, you have exceptions that are amazing, like, stranger things and stuff like that. But right. You see things like bodies, bodies, bodies or movies like that where they're partying teenagers. So you guys ever feel the same way? You talk about new movies coming up. New movies. Still haven't seen bodies, bodies, bodies. I actually haven't either because I'm like, I don't want to watch a bunch of teens.

Well, I would have that talk to the hand movie. The hand was, that was pretty good. Talked to me. It was okay. But it did. It did definitely suffer from that being taken. After that being teens. And then also, I liked the new Chuck E series at first. And so I found out that all these partying, pot smoking, drinking, kids were supposed to be at middle school. Devon, no. It might be just something weird about it. It just makes you out of it. Like, you're like, this just doesn't make any.

It's just, it's not the same. Yeah. Devon's always a lead character in that series. Well, you've got ideas. Yeah. We get like happy death days and those have like the teens and two. I did like happy death. I don't know. I like to. I find the college, do you write though? I find the college students more palatable because I like that day. Yeah. And I was like, wait a minute. They're a little more relatable to me than high schoolers. The high schoolers either are unrelated.

Well, if they are realistic or they are not realistic. And then that takes me out of it that it's like clearly 40 year olds playing teenagers written by 40 year olds. And then I'm like, I can't with this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So sometimes I just just had that question because sometimes I think you're there. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think I want you to become older and apparent than you are literally watching. You know, like, where the fuck are your parents?

Yeah. And I'm always like, who the fuck is getting away with all this shit? Like in high school shows, they're always like talking in the hallways or they're like meeting up in the photo lab. And I'm like, don't you have class? This isn't college where you can just wander the car. Oh, yeah. Investigate a murder at 11.30 when we're right over our study hall. Let's go. We're in the hell are your parents? Yeah. But like, I mean, like the certain movies do it right.

Like I think summer of 84 did it perfectly because they do. And the kids discuss the creepy neighbor while they're playing manhunt. And it takes place in 84. So they kind of remove the technology out of it. And the kids and the basis of the story with the kids is, you know, they are just kids. They're just, you know, and you can kind of relate to it. Whereas I think a lot of these high school movies like kids dealing with real, you know, adult subject matter and stuff.

And you're like, this is a stupid, you just, yeah. And then it becomes every conversation they have is either like this movie suffers from exposition or where they're just telling you what you're seeing on screen. Or it's just meaningless bullshit drama. And it's kind of like roll your eyes at it. Well, it just feels better when it's like 80s high school kids getting chopped up. Where's the kids? Where's the new age? What's smoking and had a full time job?

Yeah. You got both kids with the industry. The snow makes my school today. I couldn't stand a chance. No. Back then those kids like they went to school. They caught out. They went to go work in the callmines. Yeah. That's right. I got the rest whipped. Well, now, now all these teenagers, they all have a safe space in their high school where they can run to to protect them from the cereal. Yeah, exactly. A bunch of broccoli-headed bitches out there. You know, a conner has broccoli hair. He does?

I make fun of the house. I love the beard bitches. I love all the broccoli hair, pajama, pant, crockware and gym memes that are else. Well, it used to be like Justin Bieber, like, scene hair with the hair was just over the face. It's so much better than the broccoli. You think so much better than the broccoli? Like, when you have to live with it in your house, it's so much better than the broccoli. Yeah. I believe it.

Well, producer Craig Perry, well, so we've been talking about Wong and Morgan creators. Craig Perry actually sought them out early on and they were not available and turned it down. And looked for the right people to create with him for a year and it didn't happen until Wong and Morgan came back and said, all right, we're available now. Do you still have that script on the table? And that's how it got put together. So yeah, it just came out with the right time. Yeah, I mean, that idea.

You know, yeah. And Wong wrote that, you know, he was excited. He didn't want to make a slasher film. He was excited to make this movie because it wasn't so much about the... The result, like the actual death, who's going to die? Are they going to die or not? It was more about the ride. They'd join the ride. Like, who... How are they going to... We know they're all going to die. Just how are they going to die? Then you're paying attention every moment. Well, what's happening?

Is this going to be it? Is that going to be it? Yeah. And it just made it more entertaining. Yeah. Yeah, because you see all these things happening, like the telephone pole, the water. Once you get into the trip, what's he going to fall? You know? Nope, didn't happen. Yeah, the like, Rue Goldberg approach to murder is like... What makes me keep coming back to these movies?

And that's why, even though earlier I said things get worse when you just copy them, that's why these movies are all of comparable quality. Because they are not steeped in really heavy lore. They, for the most part, have entirely different characters every movie. Yeah. So it's just the same, like did you enjoy watching someone get killed by a lawnmower that runs over a rock that shoots a ceiling fan that then falls into capatessen?

Because we're just going to do that seven or eight times every movie for five movies. And I'm like, yeah, I enjoy that. Yeah. Give it to me. Give it. Well, Glenn Morgan added that the whole John Denver Rocky Mountain High thing was him noticing that in an airport and thinking of it for the film. I mean, that's not that great.

But he just said, as they were, we were fleshing out the idea for this movie, he was paying more attention to odd, usually not something like a consequential little things happening around him, you know, and what it quits. That start motion. And so he just had that in an airport. It was like, oh, you know, John Denver died in the plane crash, which he did in 97, flying an experimental ultra light aircraft of his own that he misjudged fuel calculations and straight up ran out of fuel in mid air.

Oh, God, come on JD. I know. I'm just a piece. So, Boston legend. Yeah, we know. Well, so that John Denver's full of shit. And Joe Rocky Mountains are going to be rockier than this. Yeah. So before Devin saw what and Ali Larger were cast to play Alex Browning and clear rivers, Jeffrey Riddick originally imagined Toby McGuire and Kirsten Dunst in those roles.

Oh, Jessica Biel was also close to getting the role of clear, which I think Carmell, you must would have been happier with because I just feel that would have been awesome. This unbridled paid for stand Ali. You just hate the teeth. Is it the teeth? Is it the lip formation? I mean, first of all, when you look up resting bitch face in the dictionary, there's Ali very true. Very true. Number one, number two, her character on heroes sucked.

And then every fucking season when she was dead, they brought her back as another long lost twin or sibling. I mean, I got to deal with her again. And just die off. Just fucking die already. And that apparently she said there were some racist things that happen on the set around one of the actors on heroes. And I won't repeat them. Lest it be defamation because this is some serious shit, but you can go repeat it. We all want to hear it. No, I'm not getting sued for this fucking podcast.

But if you're old, you can't be sued. That's double jeopardy. Everybody knows that. Well, then truth is an absolute defense. So I will tell you this. What the actor who played, I can't remember his name, he played D.L. Hawkins on heroes if someone could look that up for me. But he, he has said that he thought Ali Larder was contemptuous of him.

And when they all had like TV guide covers came out with all the characters and those two characters run one cover because they were in a relationship on the show. She came up to him and implied that the reason their cover wasn't selling well is because she was on the cover with him and he was black. Now is that true? I'm not saying that. I'm saying he said that that happened. So to be clear, his name was, uh, Micah Sanders or is that? Leonard, Leonard Roberts. Leonard Roberts. Leonard Roberts.

I just saw it. It's worth I find him very credible. It was a lot about how he thought like he was very unfairly treated on the show and what race had to do with it. His character was like written out unceremoniously and, you know, he was, um, anyways, the point is just it's not like she said some racist shit to him or things that he felt were racist. I already didn't like her to begin with. So I'm really ready to be believable with that. And now I just cringe every time I see that woman.

And she's a pilot destination too as well. Yes. Yes she is. She survived. Well, you'll be glad to know that one we'll get into. She could have been a larger role in this film. So Devon, I like her. You like her? I think she's okay. I mean, she's okay. Oh, cold. Man, hit my back. Man. Look, I don't even know. I don't even know this guy from heroes. You know, but I can, I can just look at her and tell she's, she's probably not an out loud racist. If that makes it better. Oh, okay.

You know, most rather she be the kind of insidious racism is the kind you get away with and becomes institutionalized. You know, if she does have, she does have, she does have that face and there are other actors and actresses do like, I hate Kira Knightley. I hate her. I hate everything about Kira Knightley. I hate her. She's got satater because, because, well, the teeth. But then she always has, it's not like resting bitch face, but it's like tough.

She's just always just so tough and it's like, shut the fuck up. I better be able to hit my bus. You wouldn't walk away from it. Would you? You're not that tough. She was just an important man. I found the article I read, Variety corroborated, Variety ran the article. They corroborated his story with 10 people who worked on heroes. Wow. So they're all kind of like, oh, yeah, that dude got like fuck. Okay. Well, well, Devon saw what we talked about. Had been. You could even trust the media.

Well, we're the media. So if it's not, you can't trust. Yeah. Yeah. So he had been in Casper while the America now and then, Kersmith at the time was on Dawson's Creek. Ali Larger had done Variety Blues. That gave the studio confidence in the amount of teen interest for this film. There was there's up to covers there. Yeah. So people that are watching people that are watching like the fifth rate actor who doesn't actually star in Dawson's Creek or going to line.

I mean, maybe they thought these girls, you know, and the only out. I can only remember Ali Larger from this. This movie. Well, the only out. I mean, there was at the time of this was actually Sean William Scott because American pie was not out yet. But I believe it was the same studio. They said we had finished American pie when we were prepping for final destination, but it hadn't been released yet.

But they knew that once pie came out, he was going to be a big star and they'd benefit from his presence in the movie. So as I said, he's obviously, he's lovely to work with and great in the role, but that particular bit of casting was, was, you know, a calculated thing to capitalize on. He's kind of vanished, hasn't he? Yeah, I guess so. Sean William Scott. Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping it's a, he took his money in Rand situation. But maybe he'll have a guy. He doesn't seem to be around anymore.

Reunion. Yeah, maybe Josh Hartnett style come back. I did like him. I remember this distinct thriller movie or something. I remember seeing him in the team movies and then I remember out of nowhere, seeing him in that movie, The Run Down with the Rock. I remember him in The Run Down with the Rock. Do you remember that? And then all of a sudden, he was in this action movie and he was like, Jack, I was like, wow, what happened to Sean William Scott? I was like, wow. I was like, I got a heart.

I remember he did the goon, that hockey movie, which is like a huge cult hit. Okay. The rap is Becky. 2023. Yeah. He did some stuff. Last night he was in. He was in. He's not worth his net worth. His net worth is almost 30 million dollars. So, okay. In Devon Salvo, just to do, uh, didn't, wasn't Devon Salvo just in like five nights for Freddy's or something like that at Freddy's or, but no, that was, uh, that was, uh, Matthew Willard.

Uh, Devon Salvo, Devon Salvo starred in the John Travolta movie that was written and directed by Fred Durst. Oh, there he is. And go where John Travolta is. The fanatic or whatever. Yeah, where John Travolta is. I never watched that. I haven't watched that. Oh, please watch it. Oh, he's on the spectrum. He's just all checked about. But Salvo has been, has done a couple action movies lately. I know he has like a little bit lower caliber action movies. Well, he's in that new Chuckie series, too.

Like I was saying. That's like a stepdad or something. That's right. Yeah, he's one of the leads in that. Well, so the original title of this film was Flight 180. The name of the movie was changed so it would not get mixed up with recent movies at the time, such as Conair and Air Force One. In the opening scene, Alex's luggage actually has the phrase final destination on it. So they actually, they went back and got a insert shot on that. So it matched the title.

Um, we'll talk a little bit more about this in reception. But the playing crash feature was not based on the TWA flight 800, which crashed in July of 1996. Um, that, that took place in New York. We can talk about it now. There's a, there's a horrible tragedy 1996 when, um, let me just go down to the facts here. When? Anybody else is like TikTok and Instagram Reels algorithm stuck on some of the most terrifying videos known to man like playing crashes. Mine. Thanks to you, son.

Oh, dude, I get, I don't, I get, I get pages. You can't look at what you look up once then it gets, you get, I just get pages and pages of like, you know, like they do like the, the FAA simulation of these playing crashes. And then people getting stuck in caves. Uh, I, uh, please loaded with people getting stuck. We were just at a cave and I don't know, but it was a huge, awesome cave.

So, so while you were in the cave, did you ever just get like this, ooh, this fizzy tingling feeling to like try to squeeze yourself through the smallest hole possible? No, no. This was a, this was a federally protected like walk away through the cave, huge ass cave, but they did have one section where there was a crevices. They were, they said they shine the light through it and they're like, take a peek down there.

It's just 60 foot drop into a cavern and no one's been down there because there's no way to get down and back out. And they were like, yeah, don't squeeze down in there. We won't be able to get you out. There's this, there, and so the, the Instagram led me to a YouTube page. It's got like 20 million followers. I hope this guy is making just bank. Um, it's called scary interesting and it is just 20 minute breakdowns of what happens to people. Apparently this happens all the time.

They just get stuck inverted in a cave or they go into a cave and they go into a pocket and oops, the groundwater is rising and they didn't know and then they slowly drown. They drown. And they slowly drown. An absolute pitch black darkness. That's the scariest death ever. Yeah. A little time. Well, we were in this cave tour. We were deep in and the guy was like, for a second, he's like, no, Chick does sound. He turned off all the lights. It was just obviously pitch black and black.

It's a nightmare. He says, it says the only place darker is at the bottom of the bottom of the ocean as the other one going down in the submarine. I can't wait for that documentary to come out. Oh, man. Well, so this film was met with controversy. As I mentioned, people felt that it was insensitive and too close to the real life plane crash of TWA flight 800, which exploded in crash into the Atlantic Ocean near New York on July 17, 1996.

The plane left JFK, the same airport featured in the movie. It was scheduled to land in Rome and have a brief stop over in Paris, all 230 people on board died, including 16 students and five adult chaperones from Montoursville area high school in Pennsylvania. The students were part of a French club at their school. I see the connection. It's a little bit obvious here. G. Carmelo, as we, there's definitely an idea. As the attorney, how would you, how would you rebuke? I don't want that case.

I'm not that kind of lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. No way. Yeah, especially our plane didn't fall into the ocean. So what, you know, give you the more facts of like how the play exploded or anything? No, nothing on that. Yes, I don't have to look all that. They keep all that hushed like Boeing. Yeah. I'm not stepping for an airplane. Well, most characters, mostly characters in the movie are named after horror stars and filmmakers from the 30s and 40s.

Alex Browning is named after Todd Browning from Freaks. From Freaks. Terry Cheney comes from Juan Cheney, Todd Wagner is named after George Wagner and Billy Hitchcock, obviously Alfred Hitchcock. And they said that all the, all the FBI agents, like every character in the script had a horror reference name, but you don't hear a lot of them out loud. You would have had to read script to see it. Yeah. So, um, because that's just awesome. Oh, it's so awesome.

So, well, one guy who plays, so the guy, you're making me fast forward. I'll get to it. One of the agents literally got cast because of that. So, I'm like, oh my god. I'm going to the end. Yeah. So, in the scene where Alex is in bed the night before the flight, Devon really slept for four hours. The crew worked around him while he slept. I guess he's sleeping. Why the fuck on the sleeping? I don't know. Maybe they were like, I really want this to be a truthful moment.

He needs to really be sleeping. Oh, you don't know. I don't know, feeling like you just like wake up face. You have a groggyness and panic in your face. Yeah. They were like, whoa, this guy, this guy was in the Casper. Okay. That's not, that's not going to poking the talent. Yeah. Let's not mess with this process. And he's like, you need to prove it. Yeah, I'm about to act or two. I'm about to act for 90 minutes every afternoon when I nap. Yeah. I'm playing this character.

Well, the exterior airport scenes were shot in Vancouver. They had to shoot in one direction because there were Canadian flags hung up all around. The interior airport scenes were shot on a built set. It was just cheaper and they had more control over the design. Please, what's Canada going to do? They're an ice hockey team that can't even be to Florida team in the Stanley Cup. Yeah. Florida, baby. Stanley Cup winners first ever.

Well, there are signs all over the airport that points to the upcoming deaths. Gazing to see. We have sports podcasts. I guess you do. Well, I mean, they keep talking about these movies on this show. Oh, he's counting out of the sponsors. That's the podcast is getting Danny to watch sports. No, that's not all the sports podcasts. Please. So then, so then, so then the guy with the skates made a field goal. And he's got a batting average of two, two, seventy, you go to baseball games. I know.

I know. They were. I used to play sports. I just don't know why I'm not in his sports anymore. I know it just doesn't like having to do with me. Like you guys get all angry with your team. You're a team. When you're so much joy, yeah, if there's a game, our teams, you mean our family. Yeah, exactly. Those are my boys. I don't want you to risk. I don't want you to risk your Bronx tail, but none of those people pay your mortgage. They're not your family. That I don't. Don't get me wrong.

Like if there's a game on, I can find some entertainment and watching it. Like I, I just said, I interested. Oh, I wonder who's going to win and I watch it. But I'm not like my, my mother literally cries. But to be like emotionally attached to whether a team wins or loses and you absolutely have no control over it is just silly to me. I know. Scotty's great. I get that way. Scotty reminds me of my whole family, especially my mom.

I was there at his house when the nuggets were playing and he paces the floor. He, he does the whole thing. I was like, I felt right at home. I don't even know who's playing. I don't know anything about basketball, but I can tell exactly what's happening by Scotty. It's going to be a full week to get over that loss in the semi-finals to the table will see it. But I'm, but I'm good now. I'm good now. I mean, the Alabama Auburn game where they return the kick six cost me an iPhone.

See, well, that goes. Yeah, let's let's. Yeah. I don't know. Let's talk. There are signs all over the airport that point to the upcoming desk gate 46 is named for the number of students who die on the plane. But we don't know that. We know that. It's not a work in the airport also depicts scenes of death on the background. If you look at it closely, that's just every Canadian airport.

They wanted to focus on some of the superstitions that happen when you board a plane such as how old the paint looks, what your seat number is. Any little things that gives people anxiety. And his, his birthday was 925 and he was sitting in, in row nine or whatever 25. Well, it was, he 25 was. So his birthday was 925 and the boarding time was 925 was, yeah, or take off time or boarding time was 925. Yeah. And he was sitting in seat number 25. That's right. Oh, these seats. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, which messing up. So the name clear came from one of the crew members, one of the assistants on set. She even appears briefly in the background during the memorial scene. And the original treatment, the character is named Kimberly, but somewhere along the way it was changed. The name Kimberly was used as the main character in the sequel though, Final Destination 2. There's no problem with the title of this movie, which I find very clever and I'm really glad they changed.

Yeah. Is it really only works if the things are playing crash? So like, you know, it stops working for the most of the sequels. Yeah, it's no longer has to do with the plane. Yeah. I know. Right. Like, that's like the original idea. And it's like, well, we'll just keep it for the rest of the sequel. Yeah, they're like, well, now we have a brand. So, yeah, we're still. The set was changed when they come back out of the plane after the freak out. The characters after they've cheated death.

So they wanted things to be skewed. For example, the pictures on the airport walls are different and the jet way ceiling was lowered. Things I didn't notice, but maybe I guess you could if you went back and did that. In the airport, there's a picture of a bus in the background of one shot with Terry in it, who ultimately gets killed by a bus. They wanted to incorporate signs that something again has been altered, disturbed off-kilter after they supposedly cheated death. That's cool.

Yeah. I didn't notice any. I mean, there's a lot of good foreshadowing in the movie, but I didn't notice things like lowering the ceiling to make it creepy. Like something was wrong. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I was talking about with the agent, the actor who played agent, Wayne, Daniel Roboak, knew all the references in the script, the horror references during the audition.

And they claimed they helped him get the part because they felt they needed to have him because he was a horror fan. They're all horror fans. The lightning bolt that Alex witnesses coming down when he looks out the window was intended to look like the hand of death coming down to grab Alex, but they just felt it was not successful. Couldn't get the effect. Just a bolt at the time. Just a lightning bolt. Just a lightning bolt. Coming on in.

Yeah. And the original ending of the movie, the picture, the photographer takes of Alex and clear in the memorial plays like a big part, but they change the ending and now it doesn't anymore. So I did think that was weird. They made a big deal out of this photographer snagging a picture of them at the memorial. And then we just never heard anything about it again or all of a sudden.

I thought like when he was sitting there, like researching, like playing crashes and whatever goes wrong in the plane and that he sees the picture of her of Ali, Larger, Clear in the paper. I thought that was the picture, but like, wait, he's not even in it. Yeah, I did too, but he's not in it. Yeah, the picture of the news about the memorial now. And he pulls out the penthouse and that's when the next clue gets given to him by TOD getting shredded.

Yeah, I thought we were going to see an awkward masturbation scene with the penthouse. I was waiting for it. I was waiting for the wait. They didn't do centerfuls in penthouses, right? I don't think so. It's just playboys. I don't know. I wouldn't know. I know. I never read any of the penthouse. Yeah. Anyway, really good club. A club, really nice. Yeah, it is. Yeah. The nice thing. The magazine. Is that like a comic book? Yeah, there's a breath novel. Yeah, I think it's the whole demo.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, the bathroom death. So the tile was laid in a way that the water had a path that could follow took several shots to get it right. I was actually thinking that while watching that scene, I was like, they're one of the sort of divoted these tiles, so they did what they wanted to. Yeah. So Chad DeNello, who plays Todd, said this about the bathroom scene. He said, we shot that for the better part of an entire day. I remember how long it took. They reconstructed the bathroom.

They had false tiles in the back that I could break and they had to keep replacing those. And they kept adding different eye contacts so the eyes got red or in red or I remember someone telling me the original cut was so long and grew some that they had to shorten it. So they had to keep the people to deal with. And it was a lot of fun to shoot. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I remember watching that scene when he was shaving first. I thought he was going to slip and like, cut it back off.

Why was he shaving? He had no facial hair. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. When there's so many aspects like, oh, he's going to fall and smack his head in the toilet. He's going to stab himself in the neck with the shaving. And I didn't see the drying line come into play. I don't know how that, that, yeah. But anyways, and then as I was already mentioned this, the springy head sculpture, as we moved through the film here now, it's them talking.

They sort of did that last minute because it was, you just happened to be there on set. And they wanted to use it. They added these lines in. But about a minute of that scene was cut after test screening. The audience weren't interested in what Claire was saying about the sculpture. They were anxious to get to the part about death. And you know, why no one gave a shit about what you had to say about that sculpture? Because she's Ali Larder. Because Ali Larder.

Now the TV was going to turn Ali because now I'm the one with the giant platform of billions of listeners. And now everyone has to listen to me talk about how much you said. Yes. I thought you were fantastic Miss Larder. Well, go marry her then Rob. Go marry her if you love her so bad. I just realized she was in a can she's Canadian, I think. Yeah, that's definitely. Yeah, it's like beach reality. She was in a reservoir, the final chapter. I don't know what she watched every resident evil movie.

I cannot place her in any of the. But she did do creep show. She did do creep show that episode of Creep show was completely red filled in it. Did she? Okay, maybe I remember that. Then we meet the mortician Tony Todd. William blood. We wanted more Tony Todd. Only that one scene. Damn it. Oh, you can always every movie needs more Tony Todd. Yeah. William Bloodworth. What's his name? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not how I Larder couldn't stand him. Rob's getting it now. Now he's getting it.

William Bloodworth is named after a pseudonym that Morgan and Long use sometimes. They have written other characters with the name Bloodworth and have at least one writing credit under that same name. And again, if we actually knew who these talentless people were, we would care, but we don't. They wrote ex files. They wrote some like. Like 20 more from the famous episodes. Yeah. Somebody gets somebody saw Wong and got confused with like, you know, the talented director and gave him a job.

Well, Tony Todd, of course, we all know as candy man. He worked on the ex files briefly a new Glenn Morgan from that. He had written a pilot that Tony Todd tested for called the adventures of Blackjack Savage. So there was a connection there. I wonder what that would have been like. There's a Blackjack Savage with Tony. No, I don't know. Yeah. If you look at Todd's dead body, the board, you can see his neck pulsing kind of very quick shot of his eye blinking once. Oh, yeah.

No, no, they'd be there. The bus kill scene was done with a dummy. They at first didn't think it looked good, but after looking at the editors, Ray will to make it work really well after they messed with it. But I guess the scene's scared test audiences so much they had to add two minutes of un eventful scenes following it so that the audiences could recover. It was one of the most successful scenes during the test screenings and has remained.

There could have been nothing in this movie to scare people so much they had to edit. It was like a little jumpy jump scare back then. I don't know. Like, but they're not expected. Like, I believe these stories occasionally like with the fly, goalbooms, the fly. Yeah. They had to edit stuff out of that movie. And what made it in there was still very much. They had to edit it. It's just pussied bulging grapefruit growth on his dick. Yeah. And then when he read his own little leg off, I get that.

But even like the classic horror movies that we do, most of them were like, now this was like the MPA just being jerks and said that the decapitated head could only bounce twice. Yeah. And this is like back in the 80s. There was nothing in this movie that was just so shocking to audiences that they were like, we can't have it. Well, but like with like Terry's death from like the bus, like you see you're like walking out there, like the camera is seeing him like, up. So it was going to happen.

You see it coming. And it was no. Well, no, we know. But but that was in the course with Shalway and Scott. Like that one's like the biggest one where he's like standing by the train. It's like a long shot of him. Like, fuck you, man. And they're all like crowned down. He's the one standing up. And I'm like, well, yep, he's going to get his head sliced off by that piece of metal. I think I think we're used to this and smarter now back then.

It might have still tricked some of us, but yeah, yeah, I think they're still good. It was still good. This happens to me when I watch newer movies, even I just thought they're watching them when I can just guess what's going to happen a lot of the times. Yeah. And a lot of the people, a lot of people now, a lot of films now play into that very smartly because they do the build up and they know you think that's what's going to happen. Then they purposely don't do it.

And it's sort of like a, you know, got you. For Val's impalement, she gets impaled, of course, the teacher in her own house after she is a little, you know, taddling Nancy and has the FBI come pick up Sawa. Mrs. Luton. All he's trying to do is check her tires. Yeah, man. Oh, just a tire here. Yep, that's all I'm doing. In true old fashion, she was placed under a faux wooden floor with a silicone body double on top of her. For the glass, they lodged in turn neck. They actually did in reverse.

So a piece of glass was placed in her prosthetic neck, yanked away. And then the wire was erased and post. Yeah, yeah. So the cloak actually, the actress who plays Val is married and married producer and writer Glenn Morgan in 98 before they show this. So that's how she got. Wow, I'm just, I'm just assuming that's how she's the girl. Yeah, they practice. They practice. Yeah, she is. Eric, no, I mean, but she's good. She's like the main mom in a hell house and and a blind man or like.

Oh, yeah, Carwoods, Eugene. She kind of looks like her, right? That actress. She is. She is very, very great. Yeah, she's getting old too and she looks great for like an older lady. I just funny side note about marriages and hillhouse and all this. The younger actress they use and all of them. God, what's the. She's married to Mike Flanagan. Oh, really? Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah, Katie Shingal. Is that her? Is that her? That's his ex. K. Oh, they're not together anymore.

Oh, no, I thought they weren't. Maybe they are. I was just looking up like is her name Katie Shingal? Is that I thought of his single, but I trust Rob. Oh, Kater. Yeah, Segal Katie. Segal Katie. Oh, no, no, she's still with. Yep. That's that's you. Yeah, Mike Mike Flanagan pulled an absolute like Robert Tapper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He looks like he should be on a watch list. Really? And Mike Flanagan should be allowed near schools. It is your right. Yeah, she's a catch. Yeah, she's a catch.

Yeah, she's a catch. She's a catch. Segal is. They're remarkable. Yeah, yeah. That looks so bastard. No. Unlike the alley, louder, right? That's how many. Seven years older than me. I don't know. I think that's okay. Yeah. Well, in a cutscene from the film, you learn that some of the artwork clear makes was made out of debris from the plane crash.

She collected some of the materials at a beach, agent Shrek compliments her after internally questioning whether she, you know, where she got that material from. That would be cool. To include. Yeah. Um, when Al is so now we move on to the train stuff or no, sorry, they're driving on the way to the train stuff. So when Al is clear, Billy and Carter are driving around, if you look closely, you might notice they're just driving in a circle for production.

They had them making a loop for the entire sequence. So I didn't see some of the same shape going by in the background. But in the, also he Carter elbows, Billy and the face in the car scene while driving. They did that because Sean Williams got showed up and had a fucked up lip and they had to have a reason for that. So on. Yeah. Yeah, you got drug that I've poured. Yeah. But no, um, Curse, Curse Smith calls the train scene the most memorable for him.

He said that one of the trains was set to ram into the car that was already cut in half. So you, but you couldn't tell him it's cut in half. So it split apart when it got hit by the train. The other train that they had was used for the actual dialogue, um, because in the movie obviously he's trapped in the car that was supposed to be on the track and the trains coming right at him.

So they used this ingenious idea to build a structure to the side of the track, which had a series of mirrors on it to make it appear as though it was on the actual track. And then it would then it worked somehow like he could just without putting him in danger. He could just get very close and crashing everything. So that was a real train. They use the yeah, but I can't really picture with mirrors how they. Yeah. That's a nice car too. Yeah. That's asked forgot what kind of car it was.

But yeah. Um, yeah, one of the most controversial scenes in the test screenings was was the one where clear visits Alex on the beach front at night. The scene was filmed at a real beach with fake trees planted along the entrance to make it appear as if clear wanders through sort of a maze. And the rest of the scene was then shot on a set after that. But the scene was originally written with Alex and clear having sex. And yeah. And this would change the whole storyline.

Then I'll like tell Carmelo when he comes back. He had to cut out for a second. But then this culminated in clear realizing she was pregnant and by the end of the film giving birth to a baby. What? Yeah. But the audience did not like the sex scene. So the creative team made the decision to cut the scene, which ultimately altered the movie of course.

Cut a sex scene out of a worm between Ellie Larder and when they talk on the beach originally they had sex and then she got pregnant and had a baby at the end of the movie. So it was eight months. Yeah. Eight months of time. Yeah. I'll talk a little more about it in a second here. But yeah, there's even a deleted scene from later in the movie where clear takes a pregnancy test and sees that.

I'll talk a little bit more about it because there's some alternate endings and I'll talk a little more about that. But also the cabin where Alex hides out was the same one used in Lake Placid. Oh. Really? Cool. Cabin he hides out in for days and his parents don't even put a missing person on it. Yeah. I think it's just one day. It's just one day. I think so. I think so. I think he looked like the way he looked in his clothes, a little ragged that he was there for a few days.

Also the pregnancy storyline. It made so the scene where clear is at her house. She's looking at the photo of her and her dad. She looks out the FBI's outside. She sees the photo of her and her dad in the cabin. She ultimately then decides to give up Devon's location and but she has to go with them, right? But to keep him safe. But that scene had a lot more weight to it when she was carrying his unborn child. So there was more references to that. Wow. Yeah. And that comes back in this equal.

I know we're not going to cover all these but the pregnancy storyline does come back because I think it's in part two where they set up the idea that the only thing that can beat death is new life. And then they get it into their head that if they can save this pregnant woman long enough for her to have a baby, they will break the pattern. And then the twist of course is that she wasn't supposed to die after all and she was going to be so it doesn't break anything. But I want to see that.

Like I want to see like what? Do like final destination where it's about a person who's alive who shouldn't be alive. Oh, yeah. Really? Well, that makes like why isn't Devon Saba in the second one? Like he didn't kill the first camera between the two. Do they? Okay. I'm going to why I'm going to personally watch like they start the second one as I get so I'm tired. But I still hear. Yeah. Well, during, you know, this all leads up to this storm happening around Ali's house.

I guess during that scene, the dog actually bit Ali larger when she was untying the dog in the backyard. She deserved it. I knew you. Right. And you know why? Because it was probably a black lab and he could sense that you were no good. I believe it was a German shepherd from the liver. Even better. Oh, yeah. So they had a stunt double. They had a stunt double doing the wide shots because she was too nervous to be around the dog again. Dogs know Carmelo as they know. They know.

They can tell if you're a person's character. Long wanted to have death kill the dog to show how unremorseful the death can be. You can't do that. You can't kill a dog. You know, they're like, there's no way this dog's dog. So you can't kill him. This dog bit Ali larger. This dog is beautiful. This dog is not dying. I guess a lot of the reshoots took place. Any reshoots being done were a lot of from the scene. So and reshoots were done five months later.

So this final scene with Alex and clear in the driveway is a mixture of new and old versions of the ending that they had to because they had to redo the endings and stuff. We'll get into that in a second here, but we'll get into it right now. Let's do it. So as I mentioned, after test screening the studio, they wanted another ending. This is where the this is where the ending where Alex and clear go to go to Paris Alex clear and card to go to Paris is obviously what we ended up with.

In the original version of red script. Now this is confusing. There's an original script version, then an original film version. So the script version clear was pregnant and the innocent life inside her is what saved her. His version ended with her giving birth and then death immediately coming in and taking her as soon as she died. But the pregnancy storyline was was nixed and they didn't want it. So then in the original film version ending, Alex is electrocuted while saving clear.

And that version Carter survives and clear gives birth to Alex's child. Being childbirth clear is fine and does not die. Test audiences didn't seem like that ending either. They loved everything except for the ending where Alex dies and the pregnancy baby stuff between Alex and clear blah blah blah. So the love story was cut. The pregnancy was cut all that. With the new ending test screenings went very well. People screened and cheered when Carter died because they didn't like him.

Yeah. You see clear now, it's holding hands at the table there. So you kind of can guess they're they're getting together. Yeah. So they just was a car die, I guess. That was a great ending. I remember a lot of things for this movie, like the beginning of the plane and whatever. But I remember that last scene of like the overhanging sign just missing Alex. Yeah. Well, if it skipped you, but who's next? And you see it coming down. Yep. There you go. Cool. That's always stuck. It's a good ending.

I just like the idea of like a person being born who was never meant to be alive is creepy to me and like, yeah, that would have been added to it. Yeah, that would have been really something. And they don't get into that. Well, it doesn't find out that the woman that they thought they were saving from death was never going to die anyway. She got out of the accident, you know, beforehand. So her giving birth to the baby did not create new life. It was fine.

And so death was like undeterred by this. So it is still theoretically possible for that to beat one of the final destination movies with that. Okay. Yeah. Well, that pretty much wraps it up the reception. You know, it was sort of regarded as somewhat of a classic now, but it didn't receive the warmest reception when it first came out. Mostly negative reviews from publications like USA Today, New York Times, LA Weekly.

Roger Ebert gave it three out of five in the Chicago sun times and compared the marketability and room for sequels to the stream franchise in his review. So that's optimistic. The Los Angeles Times also gave the film a positive review calling it a terrific theatrical feature debut. Of course, they were dealing with that controversy about it relating to the actual tragedy of TWA flight 800. But that was, you know, shortly lived.

But everyone involved in the film, including Jeffrey Redick, Glenn Morgan, James Wong, has said that, well, Dave said the real life disaster played no role at all in the inspiration for the movie. But many critics still think it was in poor taste. This is fucking weird, man. The whole movie was about weird coincidences and the plan of death. And then all those people died on this man. Yeah. I mean, they had to have. They must have known about it right. I mean, I don't know.

I was two years before it was it was two years before it was a field of two years. You know, as a bunch of kids, high school kids, they knew what they're in a French class going to Paris. I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the the crashes in 96 and this was this was probably started filming in 99 over and over. But so they knew, yeah, they had two years notice. Well, that's final destination. Very successful spawn four more or five more, but we'll apply to do this one and we'll see.

We might, you know, revert back in the future. What are we doing? What are we doing? Next week, 782. There you go. I would say to fans, if there are movies we've done, like Final Destination or saw that have a lot of sequels and you want one of those sequels, let us know. That'll really influence what. Let us know your favorites. Because I don't we don't do sequels. Because some of them are better than the first ones. I remember the second and third Final Destination being pretty good too.

And obviously the sauce, you know, they're some good ones to do there. So well, we're we're throwing rob a bone. We're doing meet the feebles next. It's meet the feebles. They come in. They've heard some good things about. Oh, Peter Jackson's meet the feebles. It's a class. Academy award winning director Peter Jackson. He did Denali, which we all love to. It's going to have some good stuff in it. That will be up next. But let's move on to what did you watch?

Anyone have any awesome things they want? God, man, I didn't watch anything this week. Well, you went out with some friends and we had kids there with outdoor adventuring. So it's been hard to get watching stuff. I've been watching curb your enthusiasm. I've been getting through that show. Watch that. I need to watch it. I need to. I haven't watched. I've only seen snippets episodes. Me too. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I did.

I did as we talked about earlier, watch all of the fall of House of Usher. So that was the last week. Yes, I finished that last week. A fucking great show. I've seen that. I haven't seen Midnight Nass yet. Oh, I'm sure the best he's done. I'm behind him in my mask, but usher is, yeah, usher is first rate. Although, I think Hill House and Blighband are those the only two. I think one of the best performances coming out of his universe is the priest in Midnight Mask, though, I think.

Yeah, he's very good. I thought Bruce Greenwood, given the lemonade stand speech, though, in Usher, I sent it to have the people I know after I watched this. That's true. That was, yeah, I need to watch it. Yeah, that was great. He has Hell House, Blighband, or Midnight Mask, and Usher, is that the four? Is there one of those? No, well, there's also that Midnight Club. Oh, okay. But that's not quite the same feel as the other ones, but his major miniseries. He just does stuff that I like.

He's very much, he's very much influenced by Stephen King. Many series are very king. Character developments, very much like King. And like Stephen King, the miniseries are always better than the movies. Yeah. Except for not the shining. Except for not the shining. Except for not the shining. But like the director's cut's like four hours long, and I could have been four episodes like one hour like. Yeah, oh really? It's four hours long? The director's cut's super fucking long. Is it good?

Is he good? I loved it. I thought it was great. I need to see it. Wow, I need to see it. I didn't know it was that much long, because the original is like two and a half, two and a half. You can't see it. You can't see it. You can't see it. Where do you see it? I bought it. So I will send you the DVD. Well, I can look for it and buy it too. If it's readily available, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about how long it is, because when I look up, it says, oh, it's a three hour runtime. I'm sorry.

But a half an hour extra is a lot of fucking movie. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. Oh, you know, I like Mark Rusley. He did, he did really good. I'm actually so good. What's the other movie he did Ross that you said he didn't, you didn't like, I didn't like hush, hush. Okay. Which has a slight in it. Yeah, the Oculus is fantastic. Oh, he did do. So in case, his wife is in that and she plays the actual ghost in the mirror. She plays the weekend woman in the mirror. Okay. Oculus is amazing.

Before I wake is very me. I haven't seen Gerald's game. Gerald's game was all right. It was pretty good. It's a King short story. Yeah. I haven't, I guess life of Chuck is what everybody is talking about. That's coming out in 2024. Oh, okay. And it's based off of a Stephen King short story. I'm sorry, it stars Mark Hamill and Tom Hill, the, Hill, the Stan. Okay. Hey, that was the best part. I think I think the most underrated part of usher is how incredibly good Mark Hamill. He was good.

Yeah. I mean, like you want to know about Mr. Pim. Yeah. And I loved Mark Hamill. That could be a side series on its own. Yeah. And I think, I think it's, I think all of his mini see I go rewatch any of his mini shirts. I think the weakest mini series he has is Blimeander. Blimeander. Yeah. I like Blimeander. I did like it. I did like it, but I won't go back and rewatch it. Yeah. It doesn't grab me. It was a little dry for me. That's a hero home one, right? No, that's how I'm in Hill House.

Hill House. Okay. I get it mixed up. Blimeander is the one where I mean, it's, it's, it's like the others kind of in like American horror story season one. I'm not going to give anything away because it is a good twist and it is good. But the final two episodes of that are like Carmella said, they're very dry and they're, it turns into a pseudo, I don't know, like Carm, maybe Carmella feels the same way, but it's like they really tried the last two episodes to turn it into this tear-drinker.

Yeah. And it kind of works, but it just doesn't, it doesn't hit the same, but Hill House is amazing. I like Hill House better. Midnight, the one game he was talking about. Midnight Mass. Midnight Mass is also amazing. But Usher is just his, the stories were, it's just different, but I think Usher, Usher is a great roller coaster. It's just so much fun to watch. Yeah. So that's cool. So that's what I, I think I watched that.

But Oculus, again, I think Oculus is one of those movies I could rewatch over. I could too. It's very much. You guys want to cover it just because it's so fun. I do Oculus. I mean, because I mean, it's, it's like, love it. 2018. We've praised it a couple times before on the, on this podcast. He picks, he picks his actors incredibly well. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Even as he has his favorites and likes to reuse certain folks, he's still casting them so well and everything.

And I'll give you the, the best example is, um, uh, he got his real name, it's Gaysme, Elliott for me, T. He's like, you know, yeah, Henry Thomas, I think, and Henry Thomas Henry, and he's played such. He's great. Different characters now in, I'm convinced that I might be one of the best actors of all time. And if you doubt it, look up his screen tests for Elliott and it'll give you fucking chills. Also, just watch him in Mike Flanagan and Blimeander.

He played, you don't even notice him, but he played brother, the brother, he's like, kind of a drunk depressed aristocrat. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then in this, he plays, he plays like the, and usher, he's got the ponytail and the man button. He is just such a semi like, like, finally, not gay. Yeah, but he's also like the spineless worm. Yeah, yeah. I, I went from midnight mass to usher and then in midnight mass, he's like this, you know, uh, older portrayed a blue collar worker.

Yeah, exactly. And then in art, and it's just look at his gate, the way he walks in usher with his arms kind of tucked in. Yeah. And then in his, you know, midnight mass, we're like, he says, he's got a limp. Yeah, the way he walks, the way he carries himself, he's so good. He's so good. And then him as the younger version of the story being told in Hill House, how his character develops and becomes the becomes like a hero.

And how, you know, he just, he is, but again, I'm finding him picks his actors very, very well. He was loaded in, in, uh, Dr. St. Yeah, and Dr. Sleep, yeah, the, the, he was obviously doing a nickel sin, you know, look alike, but it was, and if, if anyone could do a decent rub on it, it was that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, head of head. Head of Thomas for sure. Yeah. Well, cool. Uh, that wraps the stuff. So meet the fee bowls in a couple of weeks, guys.

Yeah, I think you can get a couple of things to do that. Go. I'm trying to push this again, go leave us a review on Apple podcasts. That'd be awesome. We could use more there. That'd be awesome, guys. And I didn't really, we keep saying we want to give free shit out. I didn't really look for anyone again. Yep, this time. So what's, uh, next time, let next time. Yeah, yeah. Just leave us a review, maybe share some posts.

Yeah, next time I, I'll square, I'll remember, we'll just give out a t-shirt to somebody. Oh, I did watch, I did watch suitable flesh. Well, how was that awful? Really? And not like Rob being funny, he hates everything. That movie is just objectively terrible. I had our pal Barbara cramped in it. I'll put that away. Not what was also. I'll go watch her. Even if the movie's awful also looks extremely good for her age. Yes. I mean, like, she's, she's not bad in the movie.

I don't mind, I don't mind her. It's just the movie itself and the story and nothing against a heather Graham. But she's, uh, she plays it like a psychologist in it. And you can just tell the writing was like copy and paste it off of Wikipedia. So when she's talking, you're just like, my God. Yeah, really? You just like it again. Oh, she's reading it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm good for her because I'm sure she read it and was like, yeah, look, I cashed the check. So yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I guess I can say our pal Heather Graham too. Yes. Yes. I don't even horseback ride. I would. You go horseback riding. That's great. Photos approve it. Yeah. I got the pictures too. I took them off of Scottie's Instagram. That's true. That's true. Yeah. My friend went horseback riding with Heather Graham. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, thanks for joining us. And we'll catch you next week for Meet the Feebos or two weeks for Meet the Feebos. See you guys later. Later.

Don't you blame the movies? Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos more creative. No! No! No! No! How long is it? There will be blood.