Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves 4th Edition Overview

Hello. Welcome to this very special edition of the clinic meant podcast. Today, we're joined with two special guests with Casper and you're Hannah's from Denmark, as they give us a very in-depth review of the army book, dark elves. Hey and welcome back to the crown of command podcast. I am joined today by Casper and he's a player. I've been playing with for a long time.

I'm Joe by the way, you know he's your Hannah's I've been on the podcast for a few times now with Joshua and today we'll be introducing Casper. Who's quite an expert expert on tactics as well. So if you would like to say a few words about yourself. Yeah. Hey I'm Casper and I've been playing warmer 50. Shin as a kid, a lot and started playing it again two years ago,

something like that. Yeah, I care a lot about the tactics and use a lot of times and building armies and Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah and we are going to talk about Dark Elves today and which was there my main Army that I played as a kid. And I never really got a hang of it as a kid. I always lost all my battles and tournaments and but I think I have a much better grasp at it.

Now that's good. Well, we're going through the in this podcast will be starting with the unit's because there are more sensual than the characters in the dark as rosters from here. Agreed upon by a before we start the podcast. So I guess we'll just go straight through it and The first off, we have the cold one Knights. Yes. This is a very, very interesting unit. It has a lot of good things going for it and it has one really bad thing going for it. We'll get to that.

But basically the good things is the cold one has two attacks. And It gives spotting without movement penalty and it causes fear. And the fifth part is very, very strong. Mostly because it, it makes sure that your nights won't have to take a fear test themselves. And that's very, very strong and the unit could be really, really good, but it has one really bad big downsides and that's their stupidity and being stupid is just the worst.

The worst rule you can have because it negates your combat abilities. It negates your charges. It's not like It's way worse than their failing animosity or what's the beastmen rule? I forgot what it's called. Infighting. Yeah. Invite acid. Yeah. So stupidity is much, much worse, and with leadership 8, You're Gonna Lose the that stupidity quite a lot. If you put your general in the unit, you have a leadership 10 and that's what sound good in most people's ears, I think.

But But still going to fail once in awhile, but still, in a combat of five rounds, you going to fail once. And unless that's One of the church few turns where it isn't. Crucial. Yeah, you can you can do. So, the game pretty much for the cost of the unit that's going to be. Yeah, with 38 points a model without any specialized, extra items. Yeah. But but the yeah, the unit really has a lot of good things going for it.

The night has weapon skill, 5 with doesn't really come into effect that often mostly It's usually a three plus in most cases. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly it won't be better than having the full weapon skill. So and then you don't have the strength which also a big downsize. Yeah. Even with the Lance, you only get a strength of five when you're trying to get so you're

not going to negate a lot of armor. but you have three attacks per model, so A banner of might in this, this unit is really really good because it makes the cold one. Hit a lot easier. But there's one problem with having been of my that is that you then you're not going to have blood Banner, so you can't there. Nick in your bedroom to be school again. Yeah, there's stupidity rule. So those are my main choices?

Usually, for this unit, either take blood better or I take the huge gamble risk and I go with Ben of Might and so the unit is a lot better and it performs a lot better. And that's how I would like the unit to be, but it's a huge gamble at the for those of you who don't know, blood Banner ignores the stupidity and been of my gifts, the all unit, both the Rider and the And the code 1 + 1 2 hit in combat. Yeah, we talked about the been of Mind.

A bit in the podcast about the tools and also about their lack of attacks, making them a little flesh harder to make killer units or killer characters. But of course you have to get three attacks but then they caused a damn time sidles, the pigeon, the totally agree on your points. Concerning this unit. What I would like to hear is if there any particular map The way you would use these for sure, or is it something is a from game to game you consider it.

Like, if you're building a standard Army for Dark Elves, would you have these always or would be something you would consider it up? Using it all? Yeah, in standard install is standard Army for tournament or something like that. I wouldn't use this unit. It needs too much support because The unit is almost Good Enough by itself to do damage but that's all. That's only almost it still needs to have your general to do to have a little bit of extra punch.

I think a problem with nights in general is that you're going to face if you chase a few charge regiment on foot with the ranks you already three. Bowman's behind and your nights need to do a lot of work. So a night, regiment in any army without a character is rarely strong enough to to do enough damage to compensate for. Yeah. For those Rank and file for not hitting. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The cares nights but they're really expensive, they, of course, can do it, but they're very few.

Knights who can without a character in them. And on top of that, for this unit to work, you need a character in it. You need probably, I would take the blood Banner for it to really be safe and I think you need a support Regiment of the dark Riders too. To protect them, protect your nights from chariots or adjust missile fire or simply just to support your nights. So, you're going to invest a lot of points in just having a small Regiment of code One Nights, because you need to build

support for them. So instead of the army, I don't think they're ever worth it. it is nice that they have seven charge range or 14 charge range because they only get the penalty for heavy armor and shield, because they're not boarded, yeah, but I think I would consider this in when facing units that causes fear. So I have a unit of my own that causes fear so I'm sure that that's not going to fail. Because you, if you charge an enemy that causes fear and

failure test, you hit an sixes. And yeah you lose so basically like when facing Undead or Shimla, yeah. I haven't made a dagger of list against and on that. But I'm I think it could be useful in that case and then they are cool models. So I think a lot of people would like to include them. Yeah, they look great. Yep. Especially the old versions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not so much.

The very old versions. I really like those cold ones that are bit fat, they look a lot cooler and I have a few of them, just not a lot. But I have really been trying to make this unit to compensate for the errors. They have, but they just need a lot of support and mostly me and Johannes we play two thousand points battles. Maybe it would be considered in larger battles and would perform better because They are expensive. Yeah, but they also they also have a lot of good things going

for them. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It definitely an army. That's 2,000 more than 2,000 points. It would be maybe a wriggling inclusion. But yeah. So now the stupidity is perhaps a bit too overwhelming compared to that cost now, you mentioned dark Riders and that's next unit will be moving on to. So they're felt a bit cheap 25 points and model. What are your thoughts? Yep, I don't think they're cheap. I think they're very expensive. Compared to darker took a

practical one register. That's cheaper. Yeah, yeah. But they have a completely different role and I think they are, they're much more likely to earn their worth than gold one night. It's a really, really good unit. You pay a lot of points for all those special rules but they those special rules can really come in handy. I remember playing a battle against the, as a kid against a guy where I had two small units

of dark riders. That Had the special deployment where they can move much before battle started that then the charge is charged. His, these are just the first tone and pretty much chain reacted. And bro, killer his whole, his whole ranks of all the good units. He was very unlucky but it was very cool to win the game at the first round. I think so imagine so But that's it's rarely that the that the that ability is very handy it's nice but it's not the best

abilities. They have is Skirmish and expert Riders, expert Riders makes them very decent. Shots and I would never consider having dark Riders without crossbows. It's just so important to have those crossbow. Some and I will also never consider having them without Spears because Because then, you don't have. The option of charging with

them. Yeah, because then they don't get the extra strength, bonus, making it more difficult to go through and if you already going to pay, That many points then you might as well use the last point. So you also can do some different things, work for these and yeah, it's a very good unit. They are Impossibility, the role on the battlefield. but mainly they That role is to.

Pig of small small units of arches or a brass, but if you just going to harass with them, then you are not going to earn their own cost in worth. You need you need to think to have a clear role with dark Riders. If you're going to include them, It's very good to have mobility and you can use them as support to your night. So unites those doesn't get it charged by Chariot or something

like that. And and that would be the main role I think for them that or A specifically targeting something that I need that. I know my opponent is bringing so in for a tournament or something like that, I wouldn't Her waist my poems, and dark Riders, and because they're too expensive. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And the also, yeah, you, you cannot do stranger things, you things with these making them big tough unit or give them a banner because they're not allowed to. Yeah.

They you need to have a very clear and defined role what you're going to use them for if you gonna include them, I think, okay? So you wouldn't consider them in a in a standard Army unless you had an idea of what you were facing. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's let's move on. We're now going on to the Infantry part. Yeah. And first off, we have the first of the elite infantry, you can get with the dark elves and that's the execution.

Yep. At first glance, the execution is should look good because they have whooping skilled. They have strength but they're really not because they at 16 points with double handed weapons. Then basically, I just think that all units with double handed weapons. They need to have toughness for and very good armor, safe, and probably most of the time most of the time, that's not enough because they need to survive to to get the hits in and the the only niche Way that this unit is

ever gonna kill. Anything is a when facing other units that has a double handed weapons. And and that's very optimistic to firstly. Count on your opponent, having a unit like that, and then also counting on your pwning folding meeting your Executioner's on the battle. Yeah. While they do have a bit more movement. But again, they also stopped by the fact that they only have one attack. And the attack last, always.

Yeah. So they're not gonna attack against 80% of the opponent's life, they face. Then if you have five of them, then probably one or two is gonna Survive to attack. And that's just not going to do it. So I would say for this, for the price of them, and they are a very bad unit and I would never consider including it. Yeah, I think I agree with you on this one. Even with their special ability to cause D3 wounds, I mean that maybe they will.

If they met large, monstrous infantry who also has two handed weapons and they got to do the charge but again, they like a movement on Monsters infantry. So they rarely get to charge. Yeah. But that doesn't, that doesn't matter. Because if both Yeah, they have to they go by initiative, but not by charging, if both units have a true. So they so that's the only way they could be used is when facing Crocs egos or Dragon

ogas. But that's if your opponent has those units, you can just steer clear of your Executioner's and if you If you have brought a big unit of Executioner's, then you're not going to have a lot of other things. Yeah, not worth it. That simple. You look good though. Yeah, they're cool models in various. Version version stuff Warhammer. Exactly. But there's no, there's no way to make them good, even if you put your General in, and you

give him Ruby jealous, it's not. It's not gonna be enough to even that, though that you print, protect them with mean - one to hit. Yeah, that obviously does not compensate to be armed service is terrible compared to it. Being a leak unit. Yeah. And then you can give them standard of shielding as well, but it's still just not going to be good enough. Even with - want to hit and the 4 plus say, I still think the unit is not going to be good enough. Yeah. All right.

Let's go on to the next Legion at the blackguard of Megara. Yeah, and this is also Unit, that looks very good and has a lot of cool models in different versions. And in later editions, I believe it's a very very strong unit I think in six it became unbreakable. I'm not sure about that though but they also get to attack from the second ranked as a standard for all armies.

Basically? Yeah okay but in this version they are just just as bad as bad as a Executioner's they lose the strength that Executioner's has going for Boom. So maybe they're even worse, but yeah, they're not gonna They replace the strength with an initiative, so yeah.

But it seems kind of silly, they don't strike glass so they might kill kill the unit but they re not really good at killing anything because they only have the strength of four with the hell bird yet and they only have one attack. So it's, it's yeah, the stats is it's okay and they will and they will win combat against a lot of regimens that they meet if there's no characters involved and But if you, if they meet a regiment that cost the same as at this regiment does, they're

not gonna win. Yeah, so basically they're they're not worth their points course. No, they way way too expensive. And yeah, at first, to start with all ill, factions are so expensive. So you need to really, really consider what the regiment you bring. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, you have a sound of them. Now, this is some problem. It's better now. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's continue. Yeah we're going. Moving on to the Taco crossbowmen. Yeah, but just to close it up

with the black guards. Yeah, you you don't. you need to be very Very strong and your decisions about prioritizing what you're going to bring in a toggle for me because everything is expensive and you're not going to have a little bit of everything like you can with let's say the orc Army. So you need to be very, very cost efficient. Yeah, cost-efficient that's probably the better word for it but yeah, totally get that deal. All the L fraction some of the

same issue. Yeah, I have so much the poodle, since they have a lot of value from their arches. But anyway, let's let's move on to the dark L crossbowmen. Yeah. The repeater in crossbow is just such a strong tool and probably the strongest tool that the dog will roster has available. And this is a very, very good unit. But as we will see later on, there's a unit that cost the same Scouts. That's a lot better. Yeah, I would have no reason to

to include this unit. The only reason being it allows you to get the ball throw, which has extremely harsh condition to include in the dog of roster. So, in order to get the ball throw, you might have one unit of crossbowmen. But otherwise I would always pick the scouts over crossbowmen. Yeah. I guess that's the quite possibly. The reason why there's a harsh conditions on the popo is that you don't just build an army time the other Scouts.

But yeah, but the conditions in the the high elf. Both throw us a lot easier to meet you. Can there, you can have include to Bob throws before you have to Consider getting yeah and the Union's the units that unlock both Rose doesn't even have to be more than five models. They have to be 10 in that the dark elf roster. Yeah, yeah. So crossbow men I think is only for unlocking both Rose. Yeah, makes sense. Given that these cows can Skirmish and the crosswind

cannot. Yeah, notice when I want to do snakes kill. Yeah, which makes a huge difference yet. But let's move on to the cheapest unit in the dargah frost. Yeah the dark elf Warriors yes, and I personally I cannot see a point to this unit, except if you're really desperate for all for a unit and you don't have the points or anything else, but why would take this one? Just take a few less models from your good unit. Exactly. It's not gonna perform even though it's the cheapest model

you have. It's it's it's very weak and it's not going to perform very well against Most foes, I don't think you will ever meet regiment, which you can beat with this with the dial Warriors, unless your opponent includes really bad unit. Yeah, like this would you this this is the same issue for the tag of Warriors that the blackout of Niagara as basically anything worse, worth the same cost as them. Defeat them.

Yeah. And hands down And the nail in the coffin is that this unit cannot have a banner magic banner. And yeah. So yeah. It's out of my list. Yeah, makes sense. I have not even considered once after I noticed that they couldn't get Speers either. That would be something some Saving Grace for them no but they have targeted for us to her spearmint. Yeah. But yeah, it's we will be getting to next here. The the dark elf City guard. Yeah. This unit can also unlock. Both Rose. At least.

I think they can. Let me just I believe. So yes, yes, yeah done. So before it's just some old matters and it might be, it might be worth to consider having a unit of those instead of crossbow, men, but they're really not good enough. To include either. The idea is really cool with having crossbows in the front and Spears in the back and I also think that it is this unit will perform pretty well, but again, not good enough. And not compared to some of the units that we're going to be

getting to next. Exactly. Dog of roster has a lot of another lot, but they have units on foot, they're just way way better that you should always take instead of these units that we're talking about right now. Yeah. And we're going to be getting to one of them now. Yeah, it is the which elves. Yeah. And oh boy which is so good. I think it's it's close to being the best unit on foot in terms of killing stuff. In the win Warhammer for the

price. They are really, really cheap for having three attacks and strength for because they have poison attacks. So can they have the two Hand weapons and the friends? Yeah, so it's three attacks with with strength for and if you put a banner of my down this unit it's going to be really really good and it's going to be even more exciting in saying if you start putting a which shelf

characters in the unit as well. And and this unit might actually charge a few times because it's ills with move five. So there's a, there's a, there's a better chance than if they had move for. So, so this is a very good unit, but it has to charge. They're gonna, they're not gonna going to strike if they get charged. Yeah because the basically have no armor see and they have softness three. So they're they're like really, really strong paper everywhere is from paper.

Yeah. And of course, they have friends. He's so they also as long as they were then, charge range of an any Target, they also immune to psychology, which is another bonus, they get ya. And then, of course the you know, if your enemies Skilled in the battlefield. You can bait at unit of a

frenzied twitchell's. And as a kid I often had a very very large unit of which shows with a lot of characters in it and the it did perform good when people didn't paid it, but when people will, if you put too many points into it and And people just paid it with a week. Yeah unit all like giant rats or something. I like Cavalry and just run away and you are angle gets all messed up and they might not see combat at all. And that's the problem with

frenzied attack units on foot. It can be difficult to. To maneuver them. but, yeah, if you're if your opponent doesn't get the chance to debate them, then they can really perform. Very good. Yeah, makes sense. And this is our weird. That doesn't need any support at all. It's it's very good just to start with just include 10 with chills.

It's very, very good can protect your your back line, you're both Rose and and I don't think there's a flying unit that will just pull through us if they don't beat it, the first round on, which you'll charges into support, and which uses gonna tear through that unit, almost it has to be a very, very big flying thing for them not to So it's a good unit is very good unit. Yeah. And if you, if you start putting as I said characters in it, it's

going to be even better. Everything will get two characters, but I just want to say that. As a kid, I used the, which of hero a lot with this sort of Squish sling on my windshield hero and it did really, really You good, you lose the person strength under hero, which is a very big downside, but but it fixes the problem that if you if you ever getting charged your normal Troopers will will get to strike because you are heroes strikes first and kills a lot of

models. So yeah with this what sort of truce playing Allowing you to strike first, always, and that's seven attack speaking without the without taking account if you include the cold room. Yeah. So we six attacks were made because you can't use the oh

yeah, yeah, six attacks yet. But that's a I think that's a very very strong nights and four for the which shelf character even though you lose that one strength but I'm not I'm not sure that that's that is the right item to pick forward but but I did that a lot of as a kid and I still and I would still consider that. All right, let's move on. Now we get to this is unit. I have discussed quite a few times with Joshua and now we'll be going a little bit more

detail. To why is possibly the best unit on the darker fresh pasta? Yeah this is the dark elfs cows. Yeah and I totally agree with you on that point. It is By no comparison, the best unit in the dog of roster and you should eat no matter how you build your army, you should, in my perspective, include a whole lot of these Boys Scouts are just so good, having ballistics kill five. Just makes them even though that they move is out of half range.

They still going to hit on force, a lot of the time. It's just so good to have ballistics kill five and they have special employment and they have Skirmish. So yeah. There they are, very expensive but because they have Skirmish they are protected a little bit from enemy missile fires and that helps a lot and you're able to fire with all of them at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Taking of you. Yeah. Advantage for ranged units.

Very, very much and and if they're taking up a lot less space than a Ten White model unit like the crossbowmen. So these are just very, very good and they they perform very good on the the battle and they are very about the efficient as well. The special deployment allowing them to deploy anywhere in no man's land between the deployment zones, as long as they're not within Vision, beginning of any enemy unit. Yeah, allows them to all So take out enemy war machines, that easily?

Yeah. Yeah, they can easily do that, especially war machines with a week crew and All week toughness. But yeah, you can easily do that but I would include Very many that many Scouts that you don't have to let you still have more than you want to official deploy, how you deploy a lot of them in your deployment Zone as well. Just because this unit is just

so good. Yeah, and this is the thing that That have started to lean more and more against that in order to make the dark elf rust, diagonals unit, a good unit or arm. Good army. Yeah. Yeah. You need a lot of Scouts and I would say that anything less than 50 Scouts in a 24 2000 points, battle is Is not something that I'm considering anymore. Yeah. So you'd want to at least 25 Scouts per thousand points in an army.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think they're that good and they will perform And we've also discussed a lot concerning whether a matchup between Dark Elves and would else. I, we both sort of on the same idea that if woodles Vine up with arches and stock else lined up with Scouts, then the scouts will prevail. Yeah, I have never tried that matchup but I but I think that the, of course, the woodles has

a lot of the range. So you might take a lot of casualties there, the first round, and the first round, you might just have to March forward with all your Scouts, but the second round, you probably are gonna make up for it. Yeah. But I don't know. Given that they have Skirmish, they also handle to hit. Yeah. And the standard wood elf arches only have ability skill of for ya.

You need to re-watch this, but you all their own Scouts, but they Are fair bit more expensive than the dark elves house? Yeah, we have five twice. So on paper, I think the at a dark elf I'll me with a lot of range. The scouts with the would kill and Widow for me. Yeah. But I haven't tried him at the matchup soon. Okay. Yeah we'll probably get to that at some point. All right, this is let's move on to the next unit.

This one, of course we've discussed in a bit as well in a previous podcast but we're going to go into more detail. This is the blackout Co says now we have some feedback as well. Concerning We did not consider these as strong as the dark out Scouts. Maybe you'd like to go into a bit more detail. Concerning the actual black, the caceres and how they compare to the scouts as a unit. I don't think we really think that is fair to compare melee unit with a ranged unit, two different.

In cost. Effectiveness least. Yeah, in cost, Effectiveness Effectiveness. Yeah, they're not gonna Have that easy time learning, they're worth, but that depends on on your opponent and what what army you're facing the black caucus areas are a pretty good unit. I think having unmodified 5 plus safe, is this very strong?

They can take charges from chariots and at this unit, really shines when When getting when having some support items like, like either War Banner or been of defiance or even a battle Banner, those three banners that gives more combat result is very good for the unit and and all the were very good choices. I think. And, and also a crown of command in this unit is also very, very

strong. I wouldn't do both crown of command, and the And combat result Banner because kind of doesn't make it. There's no reason to if you if you plan on losing combat, there's no reason to to get the combat results and if you plan on winning there's no reason for having crown of command. It's sort of like whether you want the unit to be more offensive or defensive. Yeah. But those items really really

make the unit strong. And of course I think I think you need for in order for panel of defiance to work, you need the unit to be at least 24, 25 strong, but that unit is going to take a lot of effort for for the unit to for the enemy to you to break through. and that's say, even without any characters, supporting it another thing that you can do with with this is these also unlock both floors and on top of that you can give them crossbows so they can still shoot.

It's got there going to be expensive, of course but you can give them You can give them a banner to support so I really could give them if you have a lot of magic, you could give them better of sorcery or Banner of Wrath. So you are you are just that you use to unlock the both Rose actually has a magic Banner that can do some more things but of course it's this is going to be costly but that's also a use

that I use from time to time. So yeah, this unit has a lot of good uses and there and I might even can might even argue that they perform better than witches, because They not so dependent on being the one charging. Yeah, because that's that's safe, so strong. Yeah, this unit can be posed. Both offensive and defensive. Yeah. While the which shells are only offensive? Yeah. Or at least supporting. Yeah.

I would consider if you if you make the unit very large like 30 models or more, which consider not giving them additional hand weapons, if you. Because they're not gonna be very, very good. At fighting, the additional hand weapons is just to make the probably just going to provide you with one additional combat result. Yeah, but that might also be worth. 30 points. But I'm not sure. Yeah but I think that this unit is you don't want to to make this unit boost it.

So it's very good in So kill you kill stuff it it's a very good unit to have drinks with. So if you give it a magic Banner that gives, give it more combat results, it's going to be very good. Okay. Yeah. Definitely agree that it's very versatile and very strong unit but they, of course, it depends on the actual Army set of whether you would consider going cause a has instead of scout. But most of the time, you will probably include the scouts simply because of their, their

strength all around. Yeah. And yet if we take a look at these three, Regimens that we just talked about which of Scouts and Casillas. This couch always performs and the witcher's, and the Casillas only performs if they connect with the right Target and your opponent might just ignore them and you might never get there because you get all set by Annoying spill or Or your which heals get faded to run somewhere else.

So investing a lot of into these units. can cost you but I'm not saying that you shouldn't because they are very, very good unit but mainly units on foot I just, you need to be very aggressive with them to reach your you desire Target. And then means basically marching the full move from turn one. If you play four rounds, they might not see come back, if you play five, they probably will. And they probably also will in, in four rounds.

But but not if your opponent really don't want them to. So, so that's worth considering so. A general rule of thumb that I have when building armies in in the Warhammer 50 decision is I'll never include more than 12 units. Melee units on foot. Because of because they might just not see? See battle at all. Okay, my opponent doesn't allow me to. To get where I want with them. Yeah. Now I tend to watch that thumb rule myself, though. I do have a tendency to diverge

from standard tactics. Yeah, we'll get into that more as we discuss some of the other arm list as well. Well, let's move on to the last two units, including the vitamins. And the first one is the dark elf spinnin. Yep. And general generally, I think Spearman Very good in 150, they shouldn't am. The ability to attack from two ranks when being charged is just very good because it makes it, make sure that at least some of your models will attack after

getting strike the pain. But I see really no reason to include Spearman over corsairs. Young basically. What else does a better job with the save? They have I think and you don't have the same bonus as the High Elves payments have that they can tag from to be ranks. No. So they're just too expensive and they cannot have a banner and they that too many times downsizes for them. I think and they would shelf and consecuencias are just much, much better choices.

Yeah, definitely better infantry choices. Yeah. Casey. Yeah a given also the tactic you discussed with the process that they can also act defensively with for example, the crown of command. Yeah. And and the 5 plus on modifiable Save which these p.m. and will usually not get. Yeah. And a note to that for the Casias, if you play A campaign or something, where you you need to capture a point at on the

map. Then I could say a unit with chronic command is just very, very good because they're not going to get removed in time. So you're going to get that that point on the battlefield. Yep. Yep. Sounds so make sense. Yeah. Now the last unit, which is where the harpies. And with the dark elves you allowed to include one unit of harpies as part of your regiments instead of allies. Do you have a loud? Screams allies? So it's not instead of are lies. It's just you. Yeah it's only one unit.

You're allowed to bring out. There's no allies here. Yeah. Yep. Harpies is just also include in every Dark, Elf Army. You always bring five of these guys. There's no reason not to and there, they really, really good. They have mobility and they can take care of the War Machine and most war machines cost around 100 and they are only five is only 775. Yeah, so cost efficient and And you can also, because they are very tough, they have two wounds

and softness for. So a lot of the time, if after you have taken out that war machine, they can even there. They are still, they are often still five strong and can even help negate combat bonus from your enemy. So that's always, I would never consider not bringing five harpies. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a great tool for the dark elves. Yeah, 200 deal in this war machines especially to can't reach them with discounts. Yeah, definitely.

And also if you're my opponent doesn't have war machines, I would always bring them. They always have they can fly down on the battlefield and just to block a charge and then you sacrifice them for saving your main unit or something like that. The mobility of have having a Flying unit is just very very good into too good to not include. Yeah. Yeah. And if your main unit has clashed with another unit you can negate ranks as you many. Many different mentioned earlier.

Yeah. And you can even just fly high with these the first turn and you can just keep them in in the air until the right moment where you have to litigate combat result and you can easily win like that. And since there are there you as well. They also get five glancing strikes when they attack our enemies. Yeah.

In the air. Yeah. So all in all a very good unit and of course, as Castle mentions, I definitely agree that it's an auto include especially since you can get it through your regiments. So I wouldn't include more than five in the elves list but that's Because I don't have the points for including more. In rare cases, I think that having eight and like unit with combat resolve is quit Provide very good I have yet to to do

that. They did once as a kid with have, I had a lot very large unit of harpies. So I had I had three drinks with them and they they charge this, small Champions land and made him run. There was very good so but that's it's still a lot of points that you invest in to that and with the elf list, I don't think you can afford to do stuff like that, perhaps with the beastmen on my list. Yeah, but then I would rather have 25. Yeah, a lot of small units with

five. Yeah. All right, well, I think that wraps about about wraps up the regiment section. Yeah, we should say, why don't we have one machines? Yeah, let's go into the war machines and we're starting with The Cauldron of blood yet. I'm very unsure if this is is good. I don't think it's, I don't think it's going to be good in, in a to thought thousand point or smaller battle.

I think if your paddle needs to be bigger for it to be good, basically, what this does is it it triples your, which is attacks? Instead of doubles them, the first turn of combat and then they also give the witches The war to save of 6 Plus which they call a revived safe.

So it's actually a bit better because they can come back to life with this safe and also your which you'll hero can come back to life after dying if you roll that 6 but it's very unlikely but it happened to me a few times. They'll award save is quite even if it is not sick. Plus, it's still a nice to have a actual water safe on the regiment. Yeah, yeah.

But it's very expensive and I think in order for it to be good you you need to to include with chills characters and I don't see that being very easy and in smaller battles. Would you consider potentially making a which shelf Army supported by this cauldron of blood? That would you only have one singular recommend measurement? Which is which is at all times. Yeah, I will. Consider that in some cases. And I that's that's how I like my mommy when I was a kid. But remember, I always lost.

So even though I had an insane unit, I have my general, I had a which'll champion and a hero and my sorcerer in the same with Shield unit, that was a 30 strong or something like that and cauldron. And then I have to support units of which elves at the side. I think they were 12 each them. The only times that the that this worked as a kid was when my opponent didn't know how strong the unit was and decided to

fight it anyways. Yeah, but but definitely, this has has a the option and of being good and I think, I think it can. Yeah, there's no denying that. It's also an amazing them up. And, and the good thing that maybe everyone doesn't doesn't know that is that you don't remove the model. It cannot die.

So even that the keepers and the Guardians die, you still don't remove it and they can still, if they remain 18 inches, within use The Cauldron And in the in that case and I'm not sure about that but I don't think your opponent gets to get points for it. If they kill it, if you, if you play a format where you count the points worth you killed because it's an indestructible. So I don't think I think that's a Could be a nice way of saving some points from your army.

Yeah, I just having this in the battlefield. Yeah. And if yeah it cannot match but if you um, if you you almost sure to have your Witcher within 18, if you just if it just moves 5 inches once then you need your which up to get really, really far wait to not be within range. So yep. Yeah, they'll have be fully inside. Enemy deployment Zone. Yeah, or way out on the flank. Yeah. So I think this is very good but I wouldn't waste points on it unless I went very far down the which'll proud.

Very aggressive Army, potentially one, Maine Regiment of Wiggles, maybe even some smaller supporting ones, but yeah, very offensive Army. This is made for ya. And the problem with that, we'll come back to that. You will have less point for Scouts, which is exactly which I don't like. Yeah. This is almost 10 Scouts less. Yeah. And also all the characters and the, which of you that you have to Yeah, to include. Yeah, well, let's one more war machine for the dark elves. Yeah.

In this Edition. And this is the repeatable thrower. Yeah. Now we've already mentioned, the downside is that you need to include 10 or more of the other Target Warriors, Spearman, cross woman City Garden or the black are Co science.

Yeah, so is it worth it? Well, I think the repeatable throw is very strong and it can do a lot of work, and I think it's, it's worth including one, but if you, if you want to include more use, it would be still be good if you if you could like in the high output book include them easily but you have to take another unit of ten bad units. Out for, for, for you to include a second repeatable, through as well. If you did, you understand what I meant? Yeah, you need the.

So if you want the true Pope Rose you need two units of 10 or more of these men for before-mentioned units. Yeah so but that's Can it can it can be done if you have a big unit of courses that you like as well and then you just kind of waste your points and one when unit of crossbow men on the side then you have room for to both Rose. But I really don't think you need to include to both rowers because the very strong especially against nights, of

course. And the multiple shot is, it's very, very good against armored unit but the very big downsize of Repeatable 30s is that? It has two crew with no safe. Well, they have 6 Plus say but that's almost the same and they have toughness 3. So your opponent will just have have to have a single bow on the general, or something like that, and then Yeah, then they can you might just lose your Paw Patrol.

Yeah, easily. It's very easy to deal with because Compared to war for machines, you have three drawers on all of them, and you, they have toughness for. This is very, very easy, it's easy hundred points for your enemy. So so that they they, they very often have a hard time finding earning their worth before they're taking out. So what you have to also have to consider the double almost, the double cost was being forced to include one of these other units.

Yeah, as well, given the price of Ells. Yeah, mean dark elf. Back out are Co says you can use, but you will need to have two units of them in order to have to bulk rules. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I would care to include more than one. And of course that's that's simply I will I would include one simply for the map control that it gives. It makes sure that my opponent Knights doesn't March forward in the middle of the battle. The first turn at least that

needs to deal with it before. And for example, having a chaos player having his is cares nights, not doing anything. Turn is is very much worth it. Yeah. so so it it has it has very it, helps you with your map control map control is huge in

Very important in water. And also it also provides you with armor-piercing which is something like if you went to an army almost full Scouts, you're going to be lacking in our case facing against for example KS Warriors something you're not going to be able to kill that many of them. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's good, but very costly and the inv The High Elves player for be easily easily be able to include it. Yeah.

All right, I think that about wraps up the the war machines and is there anything you want to add you? The one thing that I always was a bit annoyed as for as a kid was that that diagonal wasn't able to get the Chariots. Yeah. Doesn't go until the 6th edition I believe. Yeah but they had to be a cold one serious. Yeah. But then again if you they had covid-19 areas that was stupid then they might Not be that good anyway. All right. Yeah. Well, let's move on to the monster list.

Oh yeah. You know, some point. Yeah, we've been through most of these monsters already in the tools section of the tactics of houses is podcast a. However, the difference is that the dark elves I see able to mount them on Facebook very important thing in 50 efficient. Yeah. Very because of the bound

monster rule. Now the dark L Russell does have a altered version of the Hydra the war Hydra giving it a higher leadership and believe it also has now it's about the same just has more leadership it I can't remember if it's a the weapon skill or the initiative something else. Yeah all can change but the but it has a different breath. Yeah, let's take so it has strength equal to its number of remaining wounds. So it starts with breath attack with strength 7. Which actually makes it worth

considering. But you would definitely consider it as something as a mount instead of having it. I don't know if I work to consider this, it would be on his own. But what I wouldn't consider it because of bounds monster is is just as bad as stupidity, and you're going to have leadership 8, so it just might run off the first round of combat. Of course, I believe we saw that in one of my battles. Did we ever? I want it didn't run off. It just didn't want to move to

turns, I believe. Yeah, exactly. And that's, and that's why they made the book bound monster rule because monsters was just too too strong to without it. And if, if I were to to have mounted monster, there's no reason to for it to be the war Hydra which cannot fly. I would much rather have a Mobile Mount like save the camera or the Griffin. Yeah or a dragon or Dark Pegasus yet. Yeah, exactly.

So it wouldn't be my my pick. Now as you mentioned the dust Pegasus that is a monster that differs from some of the other rosters which is the only star girls have access to. Only. I think that is the only thing that it differs from is that it's called Dark Pegasus. Yeah. Yeah. But it was example, like both. They kind of include a pegasus. No, no, no. And Pegasus aren't bound monstered. So yea big and something that

rule. Yeah, so you can include them as Heaven an additional unit of harpies to take out more war machines. If you want, they are not very good at it because Sue attacks are not gonna they might even lose the combat. So yeah, so yeah, yeah. That's I don't need a weapon skill three, they're not going to win. Come back. That's for sure. So they might try it and they might lose it. So Yeah. Okay what you would consider that? For example characters. Yeah, as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. definitely having a a character with the I call them new curse Hero on the pegasus with the either dark base of death so we can fly down and kill an big unit of nights or give him a part of bow. We'll really. Really be potent against the armored units. Yeah. And and and that's an inclusion that I made in lots of lots of army lists.

The the darkness of death, being the eyes with water once per combat, once per battle in a combat, as a start of combat, you can deal D3 wounds to all models and base contact. Yeah. Yeah, I have learning all my saves but the distance. This is a fact, the Pegasus as well. No, it doesn't know because it's one, it's one model and it's a models in base contact. The writer doesn't have his own, his own model size, so it doesn't expected. Okay, and the hard work was

being explosion of death. Yeah, this being a little bit. Risky given the driven off fact if he doesn't die during combat in might just be driven off and then cut to Pieces by ranged fire. Yeah, that's true. But but still a very good choice for 25 points with you. If you try to go down and yeah, but it's not even a meal or yeah. And and if you charge a unit where there's a lot and it's very, very rare that you are You're either. You are doc. Pegasus are you? A hero is not gonna die.

Yeah. Now, with the dwarves, we talked about the Swarms as well. I was not a big fan of them, because of that cost. Yeah, I was more interested in using swarms four factions, like scaling or vampire counts. People can factions. We can reduce the cost. Yeah. Do you see any use of swarms? No, not at all. Not at all adults. if when the half price as they are for some armies, Some armies.

Have some of the Swarms at half points and that's actually worth considering because I believe they swarms are unbreakable. Yeah, but they're very weak. They have no saved. They have very weak toughness so and they are not going to kill anything, so they're just a waste of points, I think. And they might also be a waste of points at 50 That's true. And also they are all forced to be in the same unit. You cannot have multiple often to use as blockers for example.

You can't. No, all swans must be gathered into One Singular unit. Okay, I didn't know that. all right, I think it's there any other monsters you would like to discuss in particular concerning, but the only way you can include a Character riding on a monster except for the Dark. Pegasus is a. When you play large battles? Yeah. To the 2001 census is not gonna be enough, but then you have to make the choice that you're not going to include.

You're a sorcerer and that's just not an a trade. I would meet Okay. Okay. Well, before we move on to special characters, I think we should just go back and have a look at the characters for the dark elf brush. Yeah. But at first, I would like to ask you because I know you have considered the toggle for Hydra a lot of times. Yeah. What you think about including

that? As I'm, I think you might disagree with me. I do feel like there's potential in the war Hydra given a Very sturdy body but it is difficult to figure out because it is a Gamble and it is expensive gamble at 225 points with you. When you want to have the leadership 8 concerning the pound monster rule but I do consider that the the breath attack itself. As long as along with the belief courses you don't. Cause fear doesn't it or does it cause Terror it causes Terror?

Yeah, it causes Terror. Yeah. So Tara and And a very strong breath attack with a decent movement. Of course, it doesn't fly. So I have considered several times but given that we do not have a model for the time I have refrained from using it in our matchups. Yeah though.

I would like to try it at some point because I do think it can have value even at 225 points and the risk of compounds monstrule because Even if it fails the baumanis rule, if there's very low chance of the disappearing, maybe it doesn't fly off. So there's always a chance of it coming back. Yeah. But of course if it does fail twice in a row like that in one of our games you know you will not get it points cost and points worth having a war Hydra to to support your main

regiment. Basically your main regiment clashes With the Enemy. If you make it a defensive coach, A unit. So the enemy has to get bogged down in the fight with you, then you have a chance to sit there first doing your breath attack and then furthermore doing some flank charges with Terror, which is against either. Yeah, could be worth the points cost. Yeah. This is strength 7, breath attack is quite powerful. Yeah, it definitely is very, very much and it has toughness 60.

It's difficult for. The opponent to wear down the wounds just to make the breath weaker. Yeah and I think yeah I think it's a high-risk high-reward kind of thing and if if you're lucky it I'm sure you're right. And it will perform very well. The be when the issue is of course with the breadth of text of these always when a model is covered 50%. Or more than its a four, plus two, hit it. And then you usually have the wound up with most breath attacks.

Having a strength of around 45 meaning that you'll have ruined on force or grease. Usually, mmm, but given us strength, 7 breath attack, that makes it a lot easier to do wounds. We discussed breath taxes. Well, in the dwarf podcast, What we discussed the flame Cannon. Yeah. What is quite expensive? We the bonus that the flame Cannon has is that it anyone caught with the 50% of all is automatically hit, making it quite more powerful than other breath attacks.

Yeah, that's true. But I doubt that it's ever gonna your opponent is ever gonna argue it in the range with before he is taking care of it. Yeah exactly. So sling can again you need to force for that to work. You would need to force your opponent in as soon as possible and given that you've already spent you gonna need the ruin of reforging on the flame Cannon because you don't want to blow up because he'll kill all your own units. But you would need to have a superior range fire.

And you've already spent 140 Old points on the flame Cannon. Hmm, making it quite difficult to work but I am I am looking forward to trying, I think it would trying out in my next match against Joshua here on Sunday. Okay? Yes, I will see how that goes. Yeah, Definitely, yeah. Yeah. Should we move on to the characters? Yeah, let's go through the characters fairly quickly. So we can move on to these special characters upwards.

Yeah. But as we mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, we've skipped the characters because they are more considered as support for the various regiments, that you have not exactly unless you use them as new colors or perhaps very strong spell. Casters They're generally used to support the rest of the army, rather than being a force of their own. Yeah. So, let's begin with the, the

general. Yeah. Unfortunately, you have to include him, I would love to see different options for the dog of army because he's just so expensive. And they all the the stats additional steps that he has compared to a, human General isn't worth 60 points, he's cost, 60 points more than a human General. Yeah, and he basically gets one extra move one. His weapon skilled. When I strip realistic skill all the week stats. Yeah. All the weeks that sing and

create one. Yeah, it does get the leadership 10. Yeah, but does yeah, it's it's it's not worth it. It's and you General has a very, very high cost and that means that you have very little points for other stuff. So I always make my general very cheap. And with items not giving him over the top cost for items. I don't think it's possible to make strong killer General as an as an elf.

The only option for that in my opinion is, Putting execution acts on him and that might be pretty good with a banner of Might. Most people don't know that the Executioner axe. Was changed in white dwarf. I believe it's number 222 and so it's a 62 wound and not to hit because it was insane. And then it's also dark elf, only item, but that might be a very good way to make your general, being able to kill something.

Because even though that the the execution attacks, doesn't road that 62 wound It's still ignores all armor saves and gives him two additional strength. But he strikes last so you need to protect him. So in order for that, I will give him a fortune and black amulet. So he has to wall safes, so he can survive and kill the enemy. But that's an expensive General and that's gonna cost a lot.

And and as we already discussed at the beginning of this podcast, with else in particular, you have to be very very Choosy about what would you spend your points on? Yeah, I agree very much. So if you put a lot of points into your general, you're not gonna have points for a Hero. Other stuff because you always want to have the biggest sorcerer that you can can can muster. I think Yeah. Yeah. Given the strength of dark magic. Yeah. In general.

Yeah, but their stats of of an Elven Lord is just not enough to kill anything and there's no items that you can. Argue that is gonna make him become any any good except for the Executioner, XO. So normally I think I would, I wouldn't even give him a magic weapon, maybe flail of skulls, but I don't know. I just think I will give him an help, her do something like that, and then just give him very cheap, defensive items. Maybe give him a ruby. Chalice to make my, which shelves.

A little bit more protected something like that. Could It's definitely a tactic. I've considered as well for the given the which L some extra defense and basically making me more intimidating unit because they're harder to hit and if you know in the include or cauldron of blood as well, then you have a unit that's harder to hit and has a 6 plus water safe. Yeah so that is definitely something worth considering for the if you're going to go on with your family.

Yeah. And as you might be able to hear from this, it's it's difficult finding a good use for your doggles, general way. He's just not a character that doesn't do anything. So it's all it was always as a kid a problem for me, to to decide. What am I going to use my general for? And it still is today, I've yeah, it's very hard and you, you have to include him. So you he has to Do something.

And yeah, the mentioned options. Are pretty much what I what I think he's able to. Now, if you were to make and with the execution Alex would you put him in a unit or would you stick them on a pegasus now if on I would well it depends on what I'm facing but I think I will put him in a unit because otherwise it's just too easily. Yeah. The taken care of and their parent.

I wouldn't die before. I wouldn't put him on a pigasus because then he just gets stranded somewhere because the biggest is really, really easy to. It's really squishy. So yeah. So would put him something stronger monster in a bit big battle or put him in a cold one. Regiment. That might be a terrifying, regiment actually. Yeah. But but with Executioner's axe, I Always have been of Might with him because otherwise used just not gonna get there enough changes of that six.

Yeah, that makes sense. And there's not really any way in order to give them. Frenzy in essence, it would be nice to have the option of getting a witch elf, general, or maybe even using your sorcerer as your channel. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But all right, well, let's move on here to the now. Is there any situation where you would include a dark elf battle, standard-bearer know. Nope, people leave a lever. A few. Yeah, people people that include bad. Less than that.

I think they include them because they like the idea of having a Army standard for the better for their army and they have a cool model for it or something like that because they are never good. The only bad less than that. That's worth including is the ones that has more wounds than one. You know, you almost 100 for this model for the for one wound and toughness three. It's just going to be sniped easily with the, with a spell or

killed before you can use. The banner of that that you have on it so, you know, I would never never waste my points on it. So you use it and perhaps consider it with either Undead or vampire counts or Eastman, or or listening Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of those can can include it and also I think there's also a rare window workers can use it gasps Warriors because they're balanced and that has two wounds

and more toughness but yeah. And there was no never be a situation where you can see that the absolute desperate need for a second Banner in a unit. No. And and that could be nice to have two banners in a unit of course, but but you have a battle standard is going to get killed by a regular army or regular regular Trooper facing their so and then you're going to be sad this. Yeah. So you just like what 200

points? Yeah if you give him the small Banner that's just 220 125. But yeah, it's yeah, I would never do it. All right, the let's go on to the next Monday. Dark elf Heroes. We have two different choices first off. That's the regular dark elf. Yep. Very expensive, as with the general and very hard to fit in and and it's not good enough on its own. The one exception is that we talked about building a new Co

yeah. And and the only reason that that's good is because It's it hero can have two items so you can put heart of oh and and charm Shield or potion of strength on him. And then he can do a lot of damage and but I don't I think it's very rarely in it. The Dark Elf Army that you even get to include a new career or that I would never include a hero in the dark elf just in the regiment. No, no basically. I'm costing Four Points more than a human general costs.

Yeah. Yeah. Now the which shelf here is a little different. Yeah. it cost more, but it's definitely worth the points because It has three more tax and it has one more strength because it has poison person has weapons. So, it's a killing machine. It's very, very strong. Six attacks at drain pipe and 5 or Even strength, six with inhale bird. And yeah, it's very good. Yeah. The problem is is that it's expensive and it's if it if it gets killed before even able to

do damage then it's worthless. So you need to protect it. And I talked about one good way is to give it sort of switch sling. So it attacks quickly and also protects your regiment if you get charged. But very big downsize is that you lose. The poisonous strength. Yeah. Otherwise you're gonna you're gonna need to invest in a in a protective item like a jade amulet or something like that.

And then a magic weapon flail of skulls and which you'll hear oh very very efficient very and killed a lot of stuff. Now would you always make it a war? Save on this? I would you consider something like I'm of meteoric iron with the 2 plus, I'm safe. Yeah, in rare cases, I could consider that but if you cannot use our meteor again with flail of skulls because I'm of meteor guide includes a shield and flail skulls is two-handed item.

As you know you would you have to do it with swift length, for example. Yeah. But yeah, and so in some cases. But but in most cases, I find Jade amulet soupy better because it's a war save and I only need that one turn. Hey, if my my virtual here who has played of skulls, he's going to kill my enemy if he survives Yeah, we already mentioned it in the of podcast, the Jade amulet when discussing the potential different rooms and their saves. Yeah. Jade amulet is very, very good

item 45 points. Very good. Yeah. So, all right, let's move on quickly to the the dark elf Champions. Yeah. Again, we have the regular ones and the which shelf, yeah. The regular one is useless, I think. Yeah, it might be worth it in a cold one regimen, but I don't think so. Anyway. For the reason to include a champion normally is to include that they're black.

Jim of now, which all of you of the listeners who are not including black, Jim of mass start doing that unless you agree with your opponent, that, that item is banned because that's just such a good item. And it's for me, it's also include And that's yeah, we face each other's for black gems

quite off. Yeah. You know, games and it's a very, very good item, like Jim of now for the balance of Warhammer because without it, it's going to be the hero Hammer is gonna be tenfold because you have no way of protecting your general from dying too strongly. Build chaos, Lord. Flying in on a discus making. challenge or something like that, or, or big monster or I

don't know. So that's a very good item and that's mostly the used for Champions and in my opinion, but there's no reason to give the black care of not to attach a toggle champion, because we can give it to an assassin for a few more points. And then it's concealed, I cannot be sniped by Magic and stuff like that. M, which is much more better. And of course, the which health Champion being a little bit more expensive than Target Champion.

But having the same bonuses as the, which shelf, hero doubling his attacks frenzy and extra strength from The Poisoned. Yeah, weapons and it's very, very, very strong. Five attacks at strength, five with additional hand weapons. Very, very good. And the problem with it is that you need to charge, if you're not going to charge, then it's going to die before acting. It can only have one item.

So and that's not that's really not much point in giving a expensive defensive items to a champion, but you can give it Jade amulet and you can have a Which you'll Champion but you need to be the one charging. That's my point where the hero is a little bit more resilient because it has more chocolate has an additional wound. Yeah. But strong if it charges, definitely. And, and it earns his, it worth in most cases.

I think you have fairly quickly with the especially if you're using the two Hand weapons, they need as the seven attacks at strength 5 which is quite quite gruesome for any unit. Yeah. The hero has yeah, yeah. And, and, of course, the champion also has seven attacks with a, with a cold one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I meant five types of course, with the champion. Yeah, so yeah. Definitely a big for your which shelf if you can't invest in which shelf unit for larger size.

Yeah. All right, the second to last character in the roster is the dark elf sorceress? Yeah. And dark magic is very, very strong. Especially if you get total power, then you can win the game with the those with the municipal black horror, for instance. And yeah, research, we saw that in the matchup, I have with chaos against exactly against dwarfs, just ruin the day of the

dwarf king of Joshua's dwarves. And what I did a lot when I was a kid with a, I also gave my Sorcerer cloak of mist and shadows so he could he could run up right beside the hole. The whole Army I was facing and then cast and Isabel black, or 0, total power. Through the whole Army from the side. And I think I did that to a piece Minami once and the unturned to half of his army was dead to a nation of this and this pulls black horror.

Yeah, it's very powerful spell and that was one of the few games that I want as a kid. So another thing that I forgot during my game with Joshua is that wielders of dark magic able to use their dispelled wins and magic cards as Power Cards. Come again. The the winter magic dispel cars can be used as power cards. Instead of, yeah, that's something I forgot to in the game. Oh yes, I can actually have done even more magic against his

forces. Yeah. That's that's also, very, very good in all of the reason why dark magic is a very potent School of magic. Yeah. And Yeah, yeah. And I would always take the biggest sorcerer that I can afford and I would use this is where I would use my character points. And went over, there are going to find worth. And yet a good option is giving him, cloak of mist and shadows sometimes.

Also you need a war save. That's so never a bad idea and You need to have one or two, this pool, Scrolls, and every Army. I think that's a, that's a rule of thumb that I have never leave home without it. This bull scroll and for those of you listening that don't include this bull scroll, at least one in each Army. Start doing that as well because they always come in handy. Yeah, it's better to have one not need one than to need one

and not have one. Yeah. Italy, and even, even with the The book of secret that was changed in white dwarf, 222. I would still consider using it together with the cloak of mist and shadows. It's a, it's very fun to have a character where that gets weaker and weaker because it does powerful stuff.

Basically, what it does is, Each time you get to cast spells for free, but each time you do you lose their D6 stats and what was changed in the white dwarf is that it's your opponent chooses with which that's it is, but he can, your opponent cannot reduce any of your stats, 20 or take start taking your wounds until there's no other options. So you cannot get killed, but it's a risky move because if you're poor, if your opponent reduces You just ship and there's come, there's a terror

or toughness or toughness. Yeah. Then Yeah, you are Soldier is getting very weak but I believe that the payoff can be very very good for all those expensive dark magic spells that you can get off. And now there's one thing. When we play our games, we have actually decided to remove the option to choose sorcerer loads little, for wizards for, basically, every faction that's

what allows rules. Yeah. Yeah, that was one of our house rules in this was to reduce the powerfulness of magic because it with a social load, you can do the whole hero Hammer to them to the full full extent because they are extremely powerful. Just in almost every faction. Yeah, especially if you are killing yourself a book of azure, then you can basically choose your school of magic at will making any faction able to get some very, very strong Costas. Yeah, just keep in mind that

book of assure. Justin doesn't make the Caster into the give the this given. No they just you two lately. Do you have to change the so you don't give you don't get the dark magic ability to use this spell Scrolls? No, sir. You just you just spills at Bianca. But still very powerful unit. And also, by this choice, we also reducing the number of spells, meaning, there's less chance of you getting the really good ones included in each School of magic.

Yeah, so that's one of our house with we've been playing with ya. And it also allows us to deploy more troops in smaller battles. Yes, exactly. Now shall we just move on quickly to the Dark of the session and then we'll take a short recess because we're approaching 2 hours. Yeah, definitely. And then will, you won't see much of a difference. We will take a short 5 to 10 minute break and then we'll continue with the special characters, and then some items. So, let's, let's do the dark elf

assassin. I know this is one of your favorite pics for characters. Yeah, it's a, I think it's a very strong and most most armies are all to include this, not always, but that's because of lack of points. But the dog over assassin is very good, especially for the use for black Jim. So, basically, compared to all the armies that have have to have a champion with black gym to protect with, can be taken out by various items or spills.

The dog, you love, cannot get removed that black gem because the Assassin is concealed and cannot be targeted until revealed. So that's very, very good and very strong. The if you were to consider or play a format where you wouldn't bring black Jim of. Now, I think I still think that the dog is our guilt assassin is. It's a Worthy. Inclusion. It's not strong enough to kill Lord's but it's strong enough to kill the smaller characters with two wounds I believe. So it's so it's also a good.

A good inclusion for a fighting sniping unit. Yeah, definitely. And of course with this is aspect the one who's special characters, we will be moving on to later, but of course there is also a great unit to have a heart of go on to do a bit of a sudden damage as your enemy charges in. So great way to suddenly turn the tables on the enemy as these dark out for sessions with some kind of nuking item. Yeah, but out of always also going to hit your own The troops, are you?

Yeah, which is but since dargah Force Essence, also can hide in scalps. Yes, makes them quite more useful as well. Yeah. Now, have you ever considered a dark maze of death from the side? No, I think it's too expensive, darkness of death, only works on the models that are in in contact, so that's why it's better on. If you have a loss large base, I got a monster or something. And Maze of Death is not really, really strong to kill

characters. At least not Lord characters because it's only the three wounds and I can see your point in in that the assessment might deliver. The last wounds needed. But then, he only has two attacks to attack with if you uses dark maze first, because you cannot switch right away to additional hand weapons. Yeah. I'd be thinking very gonna be hitting three models of the enemies. Yeah, I think it's too expensive to put on and it also damages

your Your own I don't know. Does it damage is all models in basically? Yeah actually if you if it's not in a skirmish unit it will hit you. Oh yeah so yeah now it's too that's too expensive but but heart of all in Skirmish. Yeah, worthy consideration. And of course, the black gem as well. I do recall our last game with Orcs and goblins versus Dark Elves, where I decided to charge my giant into some Scouts and out came an assessment of the black German trapped in there

for what was it, two times. Yeah. But it was also very unlucky that that was a The Scout units that I marked for for having my assassins. Yeah, instead of having the way I was, well, Mark for your sessions, it wasn't the one with your Shadow Blade because that might have killed my giant out, right? Yet, Perhaps, but that's me. People don't really know that. It's a bit of a, an order character. So you can include this, you don't have to write the before battle, which unit is included in.

But before battle, you need to make a note on where it is. So you cannot just say, well, it's wherever I want it to be, so I need to make a note before the battle that this assassin. Is here, but you but in a tournament you can Sasson. Can be put different places as needed. As long as you noted before battle. Of course, this is a tactic that's also usable for the skaven Assassins. We saw in the last game, with the skaven against Orcs and goblins.

Yeah. Joshua played against believe was Andreas. Yeah. And welcome back to The Chronic man podcast. We had to continue the second part of our Dark Elves, Army lists and the tactics behind each unit and cost value. Now when we left off, we were talking about the characters and now we're going to move on to these special characters List and then final note on the magic items related to the Dark Elf Army lists before we close off for today.

So let's have a look here. we were in the introduced here and the first character list that first character on the special character list is, of course, the witch-king of Megara Yep. Now, he is the only way to currently, in the fifth edition, get a chariot with the dark elves. But is it worth it? Nope, it's not and various reasons for that. He's very expensive. He has a very good stat line, strength 5/12 softness, five and four wounds and his the general. And he's a sorcerer.

So, Yeah, that's very good but very expensive and he has items that are pretty expensive as well. And a lot of them are not very good. So let's start by going through the various items that he has, and why you don't consider them good. We can you have to take the discussion from there. Yep. So we start with the the circle of iron. Yeah. Now this provides one point of magical energy, much like the power car in each magic face even in the enemies magic phase.

I can also be used as a dispatcher car. Yeah, this is a fine item, but I think that is, it's not worth 50 points, but it's not a bad item, but but it should be a little bit cheaper. I think, and all the items are over costly, I think. Yeah. Also given that the dark magic way wielders already have the ability to use this spell Scrolls as dispel wins and magic cards as as power cost. Instead, it seems a little bit redundant to have these circular to violence as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I think more More ways to cast, magic is always good. Okay, yeah, but but not not worth 250 points. You have to spend on it know if it was the were the only item that was over pricey. I would accept it. Okay. The next item on his list is the which Kings armor. Yeah, now this is a three plus, I'm safe. Andre, I might want to hit four enemies with both hand and use the weapons. Yeah. And that is pretty good that again, to way too expensive, I

think. And the problem is that, the witch-king doesn't have a water safe. So anything that ignores armor, safe is gonna hurt him. And with such a strong, such an expensive model, he's gonna get targeted a lot. Yeah. You're going to put so many eggs in one basket with the wind picking the witch-king. And and for that, I think you need a wall safe. And and this armor is not going to cut it. Even with him Henry, having tough in the 5 and 4 wounds. Yeah, I totally agree on this

point. Here is just considering that he doesn't have water if he is way too expensive. Even if he is a level for social Lord and has additional casting magic and The Chariot to do. The course that makes him a large Target, making it easier to hit with with ranged kind of negating. The - hit role that they receive from he which King Solomon. Yeah. And again, the those cold ones, it doesn't say in the special rules but they are stupid. I've checked that Enzymes and

they are stupid. So you need to check with him of course. And if he fails to pity he cannot cast bills. But he is immune to psychology. Which is negates the stupidity. Given that is one model. Yeah. But it but it doesn't. They need to check for for stupidity. Well, the whole model is in the whole unit is model and and he's immune to psychology. So what we assume that they are also means I called you because of him.

Yeah, that would make sense. But I'm pretty sure I have asked a lot of different people about this in the time. And I have also asked, you're going about it and he also agrees that they are still subject to Cepeda. T yogin being a player, we know from the hero, warm of forum on Facebook, who has played a lot of tournaments in his adult life as well, in my opinion. He's a expert in in ruling of Warhammer 50 Edition and it's the go to wear whenever I'm in

and out of something. But but that, but then he would, he would still be able to cast magic though, because he would not be affected by stupidity. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think you're right about that and he may not be able to move. Yeah, which is a bit silly but yeah, I'm not sure that about it. but I think, I I think I asked him about that as well, and I think I asked if various other people. Yeah, I'm not sure about it.

If you have any, if anybody knows the exact hula, how The witch-king Works in 4th and 5th edition with his cold ones, please feel free to post it on the ground command podcast form. Yeah, that wouldn't be very good. Yeah. Now, Move on to his next item. This spell shield. Yeah. And I would also say that I don't think Him being stupid or not, or he's cold ones being stupid or not. It doesn't change the way. I think he's still the idea of stupidity is just a secondary reason.

Why not to pick the witch-king here? Yeah, the only reason I would see picking him is because the models looks amazing and he is the witch-king itself. So he has Pretty cool goal as well. But besides that, you are probably going to be very sad when he just gets light by rains fire or by magic or a character killer. Yeah, he's not going to get sniped to range fire though. He's Chariot and cold.

One might. But yeah, but he might lose to automatic or it to a gentle character with, for example, Art of War, something similar? Yeah. Now, this spell shield as well, not really that impressive. Is unsafe, goes down to a goes, what goes up to a 2 plus, but still it's only arm safe. It does have a 4 plus, d spell. But again, it's a 50/50 chance to be able to save your main character from Magic, so, still vulnerable to moogers. Yeah, and if the Spells you'll is not a good item.

It's a It's way too pricey, you can get a 4 plus this. Bill from that fire amulet which is half price and and I would much rather have it. This will scroll even though they did can only be used once, it's I'm not going to leave my model. That's this expensive to the chance of Yeah. Yeah, that's Bill. Getting through that. Kills him now is next item.

The Destroyer that would be a lot more interesting is if you had the rule of always striking first, because that would be able to save him from A nucleus as well. Yeah, that that's true, but but other than flying nuke is a, he's going to charge a lot of the time and if he gets the which flight like that, apply a dark magic spell, then he's going to charge with his whole cherry and everything into wherever he wants. Yeah, so there is some sense to,

I mean, the destroy itself. I mean Hannah, That's again, it's a four plus two to take away the power of the heart of. Whoa. Now it's not it's four plus four for each hit and then it's then it's randomized for for the item that big ship which would in some cases be more. So Probably you would never give out of all to a character that can wield more than two items. So it would be a 250 50s to yeah. To get to stop your general from dying. Yeah. Yeah. So very low chance.

Indeed actually but but Destroyer has other users as well and it's a I think it's a very good sword weapon, I think maybe I would include this more often in larger battles because it's so expensive. I think it's too expensive. In most cases for 2004, Tommy. It's a little over the top, but it launcher, it might be good. And keep in mind that the item that he steals, he can use himself. He can only use one. At that time but he can pick if if he steals another if he wants to swap that out.

So you can steal a very big item and use it against the enemy or steal a war save and then he's safe, then he has his own Ward safe and the any who doesn't have one. So it's a good one but if we look at it he has four attacks is on a character, he's probably going to hit on four plus So two of them is going to hit, one is going to steal an item or a spill, it's horrible. If you fighting a character who also has bills like a vampire because then this you might also

get this bill and yes, yes. We might just steal one of their powers. Instead of course, the vampire will not be having a new key item, but will still be able to negate. His regular armor safe. Yeah, yeah, I moved past the talking about nuking items. If that was unclear. Yeah, it's fine. So I figured as much when you start talking about vampires, they can't buy it. I'll give a hard blow to my vampire. Lord and sending in to die. Yeah, it's okay. If he has cast iron ring and

repeat appears. But yeah, that's another thing. Yeah. That's another story. Yeah, but destroyers, pretty good. Yeah. but it's very expensive and and it's very random and it It might do wonders and it might do nothing at all. Yeah, so very expensive items and combined with all the items are too expensive for my liking. and, So, I think that should, he should at least be 100 points cheaper for me to even consider him. Okay. But yeah, I'll even even then I wouldn't consider him without a

word save I think. Yeah, that makes sense for Are you having some problem with the sound? How is it now? Yeah, it's fine. So it's not know you having problems again. What's going on, is it moi's? It's yeah, it's a sounds like you're moving your microphone around. maybe judge can edit it out if we just gonna Pick up where we left and take five again. Break here is fine. It's working again. It was just interesting. Go by his jacket is still noise. You're hearing.

Okay, let's, let's continue. Yep, the witch-king. Yeah, we'll talk about the witch-king and him needing a ward. Safe. Him needing Awards yet. Exactly. So, so, he's quite the high risk, but your iriscan, but,

yeah, but you can compensate. If you have enough character points in a large army, you can include a lot of this bill Scrolls like two or three to make him safe from Magic then at East it's he's not it's not going to be sniped by Magic because the spell shield is Not Enough by at all. It's not say no. Yeah. You really want him, you can use him but I think They are way better. Ways to spend a choke points.

Yeah, the other thing is that he's only immune to psychology, which means he can be broken by combat result. Yeah. I'll buy a unit with the banner of defiance or maybe a charge from some Cavalry, especially Eldon Cavalry with movement of 9, would be able to get to him before he gets to them and if they focus their attacks in the cold ones, not a cute. Though, whatnot. If you which flights. Now, if he Which flies, of course, but then they have available for you, Matt.

There's a good chance you could get it. What is it? Yeah, it's a it's a fairly decent job but not what. Great, get which like know, getting which light is an amazing spell, which came. Yeah, it's it. Yeah, it's really, really good for me. But if he had the ability to choose his spells, for example, he would definitely be worth his current post kinda point because yeah, juicing spills is huge. Yeah, definitely something why Nick. Magic magic is also considered a very strong.

Yeah. And then of course he causes fear. Which means it's everybody has a ticket. Most people have to take a test in order to be able to charge them. And some will end up hitting on sixes. So he does have some defenses, but he's still very vulnerable without a direct water safe. I guess the if you charges a unit of rank-and-file troops that have been identified as the black cherry, it does help him have a chance to win that combat with the site, the wheels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, and mainly be considered for an army of more than 2,000 points. Yeah, I would say say and not a lot of tactical Choice, otherwise it would be a very huge gamble. Yeah, but still, I'm not saying that it might knock do pay off sometimes, but But when, when he, when he works, it's I think it will mostly come down to your opponent. Not there, having a good answer for him, which I think most armies will have. Okay, yeah. Well, let's move on to the next

special character. The Beast load rack off of current car He say Dugout Hero on riding on the back of a black dragon. Yeah, yeah. So I don't see a reason for him at all. He has good items. The wave of Agony is not a good item. Put the other two items are pretty good. He has a war to save and he has a good save, but he's a week hero that cannot do anything by himself. Then he's on a dragon, but it's a small dragon. And so, this is a very

expensive. Yeah, it's a very I think you can you can make it better stronger. General on a, on a dragon. For the same. You must yeah, yeah. It seems like the main usage for him. If you go fighting other armies with unmounted monsters because they're the peace, Lord effect can be pretty devastating to the enemy there. It can also work even though they're mounted, only the amount, the amount of character is dead. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You need to kill the ride of a Vortex. Yeah, Alex.

Yeah. So is it really is based very Niche. Yeah, basically worthless. So yeah, not gonna include him. I'm yet this actually see what he looked like. I don't think I've seen in any addition. I believe anybody has any pictures of the the bezel of raqqa, feel free to share them on the crown command podcast. It was a it was the it was he was the one writing the black dragon in model that was sold in the fifth edition of doggles. I don't remember that model.

Maybe, I've seen you, but I'm remembered. You can Google it. It's a fairly easy. Yeah, let's move on to the next one. The Marathi. There Haxorus. Yep. Now Marathi is fairly well known. Being a mother to the witch-king. But what do we think about her choice of items? Yeah, the good thing is that the cheap items. Yeah. But Dark Sword is useless because she's you're not gonna get put her In Harm's Way. Anyway, so yeah, Amber amulet is It's good enough now. But yeah, it's a waste of an

item slot. I would say, power scroll, and this bull scroll very good Dark Pegasus fine, but she doesn't have a wall safe. so, she's very Very easy to pick off as well. Would you consider her for the chance to get use / spells? I use exposure Nashville's in a dark elf, Army lately. And only lately, I've started to like the Lanisha Tech more than the dark magic deck. So that's a good thing but I got no I wouldn't pay that pay that much for a sorcerer without a

warrant. They just to be able to pick / Wells. Yeah, she does seem like quite the risk. Yes. But again, very well-known character in the law. So, of course, if you have the character, why not give it a whirl, but also just always bear in mind that character without a war. Say needs to be protected to the utmost and every move you make and decision is you make, during the Battle of will have to take into account that she could die anytime. And also, I don't like as such

an expensive. Peace, being mounted on the dock Pegasus because the dock Pegasus is easily snipe. And then she's stranded and cannot get very far, and if it's skills to flying up high with glancing strike, then he's just gonna die as well. It does have the for wounds but still. Yes, I totally agree with you. It's it's a very high-risk gamble to include her when you could just bring a regular sorcerer Lord and give them a ward safe and perhaps the club of mr.

Shadows, as you mentioned earlier, the regular sorcerer that you're going to build with four items is going to be so much better than her. So yeah, I would never use them. I'm sure that we are. Some some of our listeners saying no. No. That's what was my favorite character? Especially also with but it is our tendency toward special characters that unless they have a warranty. We consider them way too expensive for that cost and you will be experienced this quite a few times during our.

There are some that we make exceptions for because of their abilities, but most of the time we do consider the special characters to be wanting award safe for them to justify their cost. Let's go on to the the next character, Quran captain of The Black Guard and this is a very

very strange character indeed. It's sort of like A hero that forces you to use the blackguard of neither of which we already went through, being one of the less cost effective units, you can get for the dark elves and then you have to include a unit of the black garden, a growth in order to include a, just a regular hero with a couple of standard items. Yeah. And those items are not going to make him with his cursed no. No.

I mean it doesn't even he has a 2 plus a safe of course but he doesn't have a word saved and he only has plus one to hit, but he only has 3 attacks over here is 4 because it says that he can use, both normal sword and the blade, but yeah. But then he kind of used to shield from the arm of the Oregon which is very rare you Weird. Yes, we basically answer 3 plus honestly. No, because that's not how I'm of meteoric, Iron Works. Yeah. I don't know.

But then they never made a an update of the the dark elf list. So this is still fourth edition doubt Target list. Yeah, but basically you cannot the arm of meet your guy and doesn't work without the shield. You cannot just cut it and say that's one less, that's not how it works. So I don't know how he would work. Yes. Because it's, it's Definitely spelled different than it is in the the magic book of fourth edition and the is fourth edition Dark Elf Army.

It says it's just as if you were wearing a heavy armor carrying a shield and riding upon steeled. However, carrying a shield and writing a steed will not improve the further improve this arm saving. Yeah. So saving through. So he's armor Meteora guy and he's actually better than the one in in the magic book. Well, yes and no because he can use it while using two weapons. But he cannot improve to A1 Plus by being mounted. Nobody is not mounted. So yeah.

Yeah. With this, this is one of the those things that will there's no reason to really look it up or or consult people about it because he's not good. Anyways. No, you do not want to include the black garment bag. When they look great great models but they are not tactically sound exactly yeah let's move on to the the hair Queen groan hey LeBron and she's the believe the only character in the game able to wield dual

wield magic weapons. And I don't know if there are others that can but yeah she has but one that isn't very good. Another. Yeah, it's good. But yeah, yeah and of course the the one of her attacks we to when Hugo's frenzy is not resolved, the strength of 10. Yes. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's right. So she has eight attacks with certain strength 10 and 1 at strength or she has a Yes. Yes, one of strength, four and eight at strength, that's correct.

Yeah, and of course, she's riding a manticore, which means let's see the next. We have a special rule for that. It does not know. So so she will have to do the bound monster test even while mounted on the Manticore. Yeah. And she does not have a wart save ya, very much intend useless. I think get the sea Plus from the culture and blood though. Yeah, yeah. And she has 12 attacks with cold water as well. Yeah. Whatever will be maximum of 10. Given that these cats cannot go

above that. I don't know about that. Actually, it's only the following special rules. So she's only frenzy and has the two magic swords. He doesn't get the award save know that she get the triple

attacks. so that makes her, I think you would he would do to get the power from the cold run and yeah, I think she would but and I don't think there's a there's any rule that says that you cannot have 12 attacks due to Frenzy I'm pretty sure that the that I remember demon princes have been 11 attacks with the this Axe and the whip on element, that's just the base lines that they cannot go above 10, okay?

At least that how I think it is but all this yeah is doesn't change that you have a character without a war safe with It's too bad items and mounted on the main speaker that just might fly off with your character, wait till a lot of. Yeah. Way too many points to invest in a character and not not good enough. No Ward say, no armor say, so really not very tactical choice to include her in your army, know. And I think, I think you can make Bitter.

If you take a which'll hero and mounted on my Chimera and give her a proper items, I think it will be, it will strike harder. And yeah, Yeah, I think you can you can make it better yourself if you really really want that effect. Yeah, that I actually agree on this one. I don't, I've been wanting to try or out to just because I think it would be a cool about a field and I like the idea of two magic swords, but there's no way she would keep back.

I think you have to be extremely lucky in this gamble for to be successful and be worth the points. You spend on this character suddenly flying off at some point. So go on to the next character. That's the leader of the Hagen of execution has the colorist of Hagen death. And of course he's a hero but you need to include a regiment of Harnett ish cuteness to use

them. Yeah. He has some fairly expensive items but they're not too shabby come but again, why not just build your general in the same manner and get him an extra item and and a skip, the whole process of including the hawk in a thick situations. Yeah, if you ever were to include them, I don't think you would include him either. He has improved strength and toughness, which is very good, but The Executioner's axe with three attacks. Is just not very good.

No. It's a very, very small chance of him. Actually beheading someone of course, he still gets the D3 rooms that The Executioner's. Also do yeah. But again, but he still want to attack three attacks. Oh yeah. With So one and a half is going to hit. He's gonna, if he doesn't behead, then he's gonna wound with there. With most of it. And then there's a wall safe that takes half of it. So, Yeah, he might actually kill something, you might actually

kill a lot of characters. Because he also does D3 wounds. Yeah, yeah. He's not, he's not bad. Maybe maybe you could. You would take him if you were to include The Executioner's, but I wouldn't make it include Executioner's at all. That will be a very nice choice. Yeah, and I wouldn't include them just to have him. No, no, he's not that good. No, but if you were to glue them, you would you would probably consider Congress as a as a hero Choice with them. Yeah.

Now let's move on to the last character. I believe a special character. Yeah. And this one is quite different in in tactical skill. Compared to the other ones. This is the Shadow Blade master of Assassins. Now, not only is he Yes, a few more tax and wounds, but he's also using some pretty neat combo of items. I'll leave it to you to describe the Shadow Blade because I know you're quite fond of using him. This was my favorite character when when I was a kid.

Yeah, I always brought him and I still include him today. A lot, he's very, very good. Snipes characters here and there. And, and with his items, he only cost a 150 points and he will always perform the only thing that can shut him down if black Jam of now. But if, if you have a one expensive character, that's not protected by black Gem of nah, he's just gonna get easily get

there. And the one thing you can do is Either you take the Gamble and put him in the enemies regiment and then he's discovered differently compared to how hard it is for him to conceal himself.

There's a chart below but if you feel like that's too risky because I probably wouldn't do it unless it was a was only discovered on a one and then you can put him in a style Scout regiment and When you charge in with them, then you can reveal that he's there and then he can take care of a almost any character. He might not kill care, the character with his for attacks and the D3 wounds, he might, but

he might not. And if it doesn't, then would you just hope that he, he dies and explodes and then kills? a lot of the regiment plus the characters, so he can It's very rarely he doesn't own his worth and it is very good inclusion.

And the fact that he can hide in this cow tissue mention also makes it easier for him to get to the targets that he want to get to. So basically, in the deployment say, is Phase, you can wait to deploy the scouts after everything else deployed, you get them in the correct position. So your closest to the character, you would like to see. And then you can unleash in once you get close enough, and he's usually quite the sight to see him. So you spring out and go, oh, what I do here.

It's a, we've had quite a few encounters with said of labia earning his worth, and sometimes being stopped just in the last minute, by a collection, but definitely a special character worth with his points. Perhaps even more than his cost is. Yeah, he has killed a lot of fourth level Wizards in my, yeah. And this is definitely one of those special characters than that, that are worth considering and he could be almost an auto include. It depends would say in every

game. Yeah, but it depends on if you have the points, even though he's Jeep, you still need to have the character points for him because I wouldn't sacrifice, I wouldn't say sacrifice this sorcerer for him and I and If if you do the math then you need that you need a general and you make him as cheap as possible and then you need a good Sorcerer And you put a lot of points into him and then you take the Masters Essence, but it's going to be

close. If you have the points for those, at least, it will in, in smaller battles. Yeah, so I mean you should probably be able to fit all of them in a 2000 point, but I doubt you, you'll be able to fit anything more than that. Yeah. So definitely something worth considering every time you make a dark elf on the list, yeah. The Shadow Blade and services and he wins games. Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah. Alright. I think that concludes our part for the special characters.

Yep, definitely one choice. That's extremely good. And some others that are just on the verge. Good, maybe but and then someday just way too expensive, so that will be conquering theme as we go through the special characters for each Army lists. Now, I believe you had prepared a list of the various dark elf items for us to discuss as well. I didn't prepare for the dark elf items, but they're not that many that we can eat easily go through them. We already talked about Destroyer Our.

Yeah, I think we actually cover and we also talked about Executioner's Axe and so you considering a list of what you would consider the, the best items for the dark elves to use. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, man. We talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. For the general. you could give him crown of command with the the corsairs and and then and then good armor, save and water safe. You talked about wanting to use some, some cheaper items for the child.

In this case, we are considering the armor of Fortune and perhaps the little skulls. Yeah. I don't think I would the flail of the skulls is not going to perform on a on him. I would, I would say I'm a fortune and and Jade amulet as to the two items. So it's very cheap. Yeah. And then the last item is always difficult for me to place because I don't really like any of them, but I tend to use a paring blade or sky are of nailer.

And yeah, of course. But I don't really like any of them, but just give him the third item like I could just cut it and say he has two items. But I always, when I open it, when I make this General, I always feel like well I should try to make a general that has some worth. And as I talked about you could make him executioner or you could make him have Ruby chalice to protect which shows or crown of command to a to make a course, a as a pain in the ass

to remove. Yeah. So those are pretty much the choices for the general. I think. Now, how about also mentioned the, how you would build a sorcerer could go usually with the cloak of mist and shadows with potentially the book of what's called grits Book of Secrets, that's right? Yeah. Any other items you would consider using instead for social? Yeah, well. coarser, this bull scrolls are very good, but

Depending on what you're facing. It's also an option to Simply get more magic to bait it. This builds goal this bill's to have staff from Cyrus. And if you're not going to give you a, you sorcerer Coke of mist and shadows which can be a gamble. If the enemy has a magical flying weapon or something like that then you should Place him in in a regiment where he's close where he can take use of a banner of sorcery if you can afford to get that. And yeah, so he gets a little Willpower.

Because those dark magic items. A dark magic spells they are. There are very many of them that are very expensive. So you need to have something to boost your spells with and I represent a power. Scroll is also good. just for the reason that your opponent, We'll be counting how many cards you have left and when you have none left, you can use the power scroll and completely surprised your point. Yeah, basically, when you're not drawing your total power to ya,

to get your attributes. Black horror. You have to bait out the enemies, This spells and dispels grows by forcing them, to use them on other spells in the same turn and then powering through with whatever you want to. You get through at the end. Yeah.

Very standard tactic for casting magic, but that's also allows you to host, get you some it also allows you to get some of the the smaller spells less effective but still, you know, have an effect to get them through because your opponent is expecting you to save the big stuff for the end of the magic phase. Yeah, yeah, also definitely, oh sorry, yeah. I was just about to say so basically round finishing up here that the power scroll. Definitely helps you to reach that end goal.

When you you start to they thought to run out of this spell win some magic and schools. Yeah, Yeah. Also Jade amulet is also very good choice for For your sorcerer and a Golden Crown of exercise. Very very good though pricey but in large battles where there's a some real character Killers out there. I would very much prefer to have it. Yeah, that 3 plus War save is pretty good to keep your wizard alive. And then maybe even they having the Jade amulet to give you a secondary choice.

You cannot have both both. Oh yeah. Kind of both the kind of both because they're both worlds. Yeah. And I was there was one more thing that I. Yeah, you can also make it if you are having trouble have finding points enough for your army, you can make you or you can buy a master sorcerer. Is that instead of a lord and give him a book of a. Sure, of course, your sorcerer is a fourth level visit now and but he only has essential to items then but it's a way to save. Points.

Yeah, definitely. It's a tactic would often used with in our way we use since when we use level 3 Sorcerers at the maximum, we tend to go for Champion. So throw Wizard and then give them the book of azure to power them up and that way save points on our character costs. Allowing us to field more better, generals or more units because sometimes we do not use all the character points allotted and rather would like to include that in an actual

regiments instead. Yeah. Now you had a you also have a standard list of a Dark Elf Army. Should we go through that now or should we save it for when we just start going to talk about Battlefield tactics for the damn pills? I think we should switch just do it now. It's more like a starter starter Army. I thought that's what you wanted.

Of course, one that. Yeah. So something for people to want to start collecting soccer fails or we have it and want to maybe join some 200, something that they can use, to give an idea for the feel of how dark elves are played. Yeah, and be successful in, at least, you know, Well, the most of the cases. Yeah. So, you've had a list for us. Yeah, you need a for the Heroes that you need or the character

should read. You can get General a sorcerer and assassin and a which shelf hero with those four, you can make a Different kinds of of armies, and then your troops, I would say you need 40 Scouts / crossbowmen. Scouts models doesn't exist in in a lot of versions. It didn't exist in there in fourth and fifth back. Then that don't even think they exist in a six.

So I always also always use the crossbowmen normal crossbowmen as my But I think you should have 40 of those at least and then 25 which shows and 25 Casillas because these units and foot are very good and you with these units you can make a different armies and I would also have won both row and five harpies. And this is the best unit that I think you can. You can field.

Of course, if, if you really like to have some mounted units, you could also get them and probably also make them work, but with the, with this roster, you can make various good armies for the Tar Heels. Okay.

Yeah. And any considerations like we already talked about the the banners that we wanted to give them, but is there anything you consider essential for the setups that are available through this basic Army, SF banners for them banners, or maybe items for the characters really discuss that a little bit. But basically the banners like yeah talked about when user always get the been of might in my book.

Yeah. Because they has always get a one of the three banners that give a combat result. So that wall Banner Banner of defiance or battle Banner. Well, not always because if, if I have crown of command on my General in that unit, then I probably will give them a banner of sorcery instead or they will say you are feeling both unit up with shells and the unit, of course, as you would probably go for the more aggressive with the combat result banners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it.

Yeah. Okay, then yeah, we could. Just see if we can come to an agreement about firstly, to summon up the strengths and weaknesses of the dog of army as a whole. And then come to an agreement about a rating for them. I think just the rating system, one, two, three would be fine. I don't know what you think about that. Yeah, we can do that. I haven't really given a rating to the dwarfs yet, but I have summarized that they might possibly be the worst faction.

In and wama fifth edition, and fourth edition. But that would give them a, you considering our reading of one of the lowest, of course. Yeah. So I would probably dwarfs. I will probably give one or one and a half. Okay? Maybe it depends. I mean anything I need to play more games. The doors to come to a final decision yet. But as it stands right now, they might possibly be the worst faction because of the movement

reduction. Yeah. in our rules, they I mean, that with normal rules, you can get there, you can get eight, organ guns in the tooth or thousand-point Army and that's pretty good. Yeah. But it's also not a very fun Army for anyone to face or something like that. But yeah. So there's that of course that you can.

Ya feel the lot more than you kind of now, because I also mentioned that in our house rules that we only allow 31 Since which has severely hampered the towards this is, of course, entirely objective that we considered the faction that's faring. The worst because of our house rules. Yeah. Now, with the, the dark else, if I were to give them a rating, I feel like they're they're on the verge of being good, but not not entirely, I would still say it's around, I don't know.

That's a lot of actions. I would consider to be, so maybe I won't will have to give the dark elves a rating of 1 and would, I would tend to agree with that. Because even though that they have, the scouts are very good, the scouts just doesn't carry them enough and the wind chills and can see us a good but carries them even less.

So, I would tend to say that our girls is a one, also keeping in mind that we have to to raid all the other classes and their and as you were saying, I think, I would Reserve to for a lot of other classes that I find better and girls. Yeah, definitely agree on that one. They have a lot of weaknesses, toggles Army. I think they have the strength is definitely Repeating crossbows and strong meili foot units.

But their weaknesses is low Mobility weak characters expensive character campaigns of troops. Yeah, even more expensive Cal compared to what they do. Yeah. The lack of Chariots is So major concern compared to the other Al's. Yeah, chairs being very good War Machine. Yeah. What else would they like that? They like I don't know if it's they could have used also some monstrous infantry. I guess that's something that

lacking as well. A lot of factions use muscles infantry to really pack a punch or to provide cover for some of their calorie or large units. Characters, like the crunchy goals for the Liz Lemon. I'll just insanely good for their price. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. They're they're too good. The whole list. Momentum is too good for the price, but that's another story. Yeah, yeah. That's it has no story for another day.

Yeah, we'll get to that. At some point we have had a few requests for the list of and so we may move on to them the next time. Yeah we just got an army list of course if you have any preferences of what you would like to Have us discuss next time. Please feel free to make comments in the crown of command podcast form on Facebook and we'll see what we can figure out for the next time. I will be discussing some of the factions that Joshua has with Joshua is joining as well.

Of course, leading the podcast but in these situations here when Casper and I are talking, it's unfortunately Adenauer where Joshua is asleep. So We were taking some group focusing on the factions that he doesn't have currently such as the wood shelves and the Dark Elves, and the lisman and so

forth. But but feet, please feel free to let us know if you have anything you disagree with or if there's anything you would like us to discuss you in further, we will be doing follow-up podcasts on each of the factions also discussing the viability of tactic on the battlefield. And how You should deploy how you should move your various

units. And, and in the same time trying to design an army together, and how we would feel it in the battlefield, is there anything else you would like to mention about the dark elves before we finish watching Casper? No, I think we covered pretty much all aspects that I can think of. Yeah. Yeah. We wait Center farms and wide here. Yeah. And of course we will also be making a Castle.

We discussing the various magic items in the magic item list by going through them methodically, considering them can compare to that effect and that costs. So that will be something, we'll probably do at the very end when we have gone through all the various factions. But of course, I would be discussing it with Joshua to see when you want to do this magic item tactics list but as always, thank you. Thank you for everyone for tuning in and we hope you enjoyed our extraordinary log tactics.

Talk here. And the one before that will dose. And I guess there's nothing left to say, but thank you for tuning in and thanks to Casper for joining us for just as long as well. Thank you for having me. It was fun. Yes, it was. It's always, I really enjoyed, discussing tactics for the very zombies. It's one of my favorite thing to do in this game. All right, then we'll that I guess we will be signing off.

Well, you hope you enjoyed this, very special edition of our podcast and it's going to be a feature that we'll see more and more in further episodes as we look at in more detail of each of the army books for 4th and 5th edition. But if you have some comments or if you don't agree with the opinions of Casper or you're Hannah's, please come over to our Facebook group. That's the kind of Camp command podcast Community. It's a special page is dedicated

for the podcast. And for other people into can interact with us there. So, maybe you have your own opinions about the dark elves, and how they should play or different kinds of combination of magic items or maybe you just disagree completely with those guys said. And you just want to give your opinion and either way come over and join us and have fun talking about our favorite armies and our passion for 50 Titian and we'll Hammer.

Okay guys thanks very so much for listening and catch the next one. Bye bye.