Peter Alsen Origins in the Hobby

Okay, so I'm dead now here with Peter Peter Nelson, from Sweden. Peter, how are you mate? I'm good. Thank you for having me on. No problem. It's been a while. Isn't we have talked about it? That, and I promised, or you're waiting for my invitation. Maybe you're expecting something, but it just never came. Yeah, that's what I thought. You know, I didn't episode of old-world Davis, and then I just expected every all the people to come running and want me on

their podcast. Well, I didn't know it was you, that was a thing that's all talking about and I said, I you, you know, I don't know how we got, I don't know how we Broach that subject. Like that, we talked about something I said I yeah, I know that it was, certainly a new. You said, oh, that was me. I said, I really I didn't realize that I had no idea. So there you go. So this is your yeah, this is your foot.

This is your second time to to enter enter the podcasting Waldman. Yeah, exactly. Feels like I'm getting famous. Now. You are mate. You are indeed if we're ever every second, you talk on this make, I'm sure sure many people can be listening to this and wondering all about you and how you got into the Hobby and that kind of stuff. So and it's something. I don't know.

We like we know is we know each other through the Discord channel, on the create command podcast, but and now through The Cowabunga painting Challenge and that kind of thing. But yeah, I don't know how, you know, I think I'm good at feeling, you're much younger than me. So I just, I was just interested to know how you got into the Hobby and that kind of thing. So, take it away when you're ready, mate. All right. Yeah, I said I live in Sweden but that's the kid.

I grew up in Berlin and in the Netherlands. So when I was about 12 my friend started talking about this war hammer and I had no idea what it was and then I quickly realized that they were talking about. Well nowadays I realized that they were talking about the science fiction version of course and not the fantasy version. So they were discussing, you know, Army is in the races and what to play and then they pitch the Orcs to me that I probably because they didn't want to play it works.

They said these things are awesome. You should play them and you do jokes on that because Orcs are of course the coolest. So I remember getting that Third Edition 40K codex, just been released, I think maybe back and I think it's early 2000s. Maybe 2000 One or two somewhere

and yeah that's what I got. I got the Third Edition or codecs and I still have that very codex today and I love the pink through it because it gives me all these flashbacks to a Nostalgia. So that's sort of when I started playing. I was 12 at the time for my 30th birthday. Sort of when I got the first models, I got just got the Codex before that. So Yeah, what's this was it was a while ago.

Hmm, interesting, okay, but now you like even though you got into it with Third Edition 40K with your aux but now you're sort of you're collecting a rogue Trader models and that kind of thing for the painting challenge. So how did that, how did that all come about? Yeah, I think that was, I mean, when I sure we we started with Third Edition but at the time early 2000s, they were still a lot of second digit code exists around and some mates of my brothers. They were a lot older.

They were Polly 1819. They gave us all their old Warhammer stuff that they had had in the 90s. So all us kids basically got to just run through their entire living room filled with Warhammer stuff or just grab whatever we wanted. And nowadays I would like to do that together. Someplace sometime, you know, so if anyone has that laying around just let me know.

But yeah we got there and we that's when I found the third second edition or codecs and we didn't really know that they were different editions because we were quite young and you know, English wasn't our first language. So we weren't really sure what to play and how so we sort of played the second edition code exists with Third Edition. Look, which was kind of fun because it turns out a carnufex in second edition as a two plus three, plus save on 2D six.

And a third edition, they removed armor, say modifiers, which means that he was sort of immortal and he attend wounds as well. So, we were like, yeah, that doesn't. That makes no sense. But yeah, we were kids, we didn't know. It was supposed to make sense. It was awesome. We had a bunch of fun with it. Oh wow. You back in the room. I'm back in the room. All right. Does that mean we have to start from? I'm going to edit it now. Bloody hell. That's okay, that's okay, that's

okay. What happened there? Peters Peters connection. Just drop down and we're back again. So sorry. Make you're talking about. Yeah. The sort of the the fun and interesting there were sort of mixing rule. Set the time. Yeah yeah. Because we didn't know. And then I mean eventually my I mean I thought this was a quite a good hobby and I was quite unhealthy at the time, I do stayed at home all the time it watching TV. So my parents thought it was kind of kind of good that I

started working. You know, painting things, building things they were they were just happy that he pulled me away from the television and yeah, that's what I sort of got into it and then I played, when I move back to Sweden, when I was 14 all my friends here, we're playing as Well, but they were playing fantasy at the time.

So fantasy sort of became the norm and we play through 6th edition 7th Edition eighth edition and then we stopped playing 8th Edition and went back to 40K and it was sort of. I mean, I always every time I saw the old models, I mean, I remember I went to gothakon a huge tournament in Sweden, right? I think that was back in 2015 or

something. And I saw this guy, he had an entire Army There with golden green basis, second edition Tiernan models and everything painted in, you know, second edition style and he even had the old armor cast like extra crimes and Harris boxes and such. And I remember seeing those and I just thought this is just all.

This is just wonderful and I got this wonderful nostalgic feel so I think since then, I mean, even if I was attracted to older models, even in fantasy back in 2010, when I did a night, Golden Army and back then you could get you know, hero hammer style models that mean they costed nothing on eBay. I just I just bought everything so I had a lot of skwiggs and skwiggs handlers from the older editions and yeah, I mean I always liked that part and then then my hatred for metal models,

grew stronger. I just went all into plastic and, you know, 40K got into competitive 40K and played at the attc as well. And so then for some reason I learned through when I started with War Machine and hordes it completely different word game, all of the models, or a lot of them were in metal. And that's when I sort of learned how to pin the models. And after I learn how to pin models, I realized metal is by far the most Superior material.

So now, Now, I don't want anything but metal models, really. But I think my entire idea was when I found my old second edition. Gosh, cool model. And I was about Caribbean 2018 or something 2017, maybe. And when I got this feeling that I would like an army of these old works, and I just posted on the Swedish 40K for him looking for old Orcs so I painted my gosh. Go land-based him with fucking Golden Green. And I asked on the Swedish 40K

for him. Does anyone here have you know, old old Orcs And two of my friends replied? They're like yeah sure. I have tons. You can just get it. I'll just you just pay for the shipping and I'll send it to you. And I got, I mean, I got so much stuff. It was insane. And that's sort of when this journey started so to speak second wish of 40K Journey. And I think it was in 2019 that I picked up fantasy again because I'd only been playing 40K for many years solo, my

fantasy armies. And I've been playing some age of Sigmar as well. I mean, I do find them both enjoyable. I think they're fun games but something even then nostalgic Drew my mind to 6th edition one fantasy and because that's what I played as a kid when I got back to Sweden, when I was 14. With my mates. That's when I play the sixth edition fantasy and I let I send a message to one of my friends. I haven't talked to you in a few

years. So I said, do you remember we used to play Fantasy at your house? Do you still have all your all are all my old army books and with wharfs and such. Do you still have that laying around there? We sold it or throwing it away and he just said, oh yeah and then you just send me a picture and he had pulled it all out and photographed. He sent it all to me. So it was basically two massive bags, worth of white dwarf magazines because I had to subscribe to white dwarf back in those days.

I had every month issue and then a bunch of army books as well. Tons of them and that's when they sort of, that's what it reignited fantasy. How do you say the fantasy part of me? So And I had started collecting skaven fifth edition skaven and since I have a bunch of friends here, I mean, at the club who play 9th age, right? So I had my skaven Army, so we played some 9th with them. And then I had some corn demons laying around and we played some

with them. And yes, I sort of been collecting old Hammer models through the past years and getting trying to get good deals when I see them trying to not buy them too expensive because Me the prices compared to ten years ago there. I mean, that's insane. They've increased by by a large margin, so to say it's really noticeable. That old Hammer is growing again, or do we still call it old Hammer even or do the old

Hammer? The true old Hammer is get angry at us, or what do we call ourselves? Middle hammers, I don't know. But yeah, so that's sort of when this journey started and then, I mean I was, I was always painting for tournaments back in the day, right back in. When I, when I played competitively, you always paint it. You always bought the newest stuff paying it it quickly because the tournament was on

the way. And I remember, I think it was in 2014. I went to 2348 ornaments, which means I was away more than every other And that entire year. And then when you want to like get better and stay on top, you sort of have to get the newest stuff all the time. So I played two units and demons back in the day, the demons has always been a large part of me. I really love those. I've always have which is why I did the old world news Peppa soda when I talk demons for three hours.

But in 40K demons Orcs And tyranids have always been my largest love, so to speak. Not a big Big fan of the Imperium, especially space means I think they're rather ridiculous and stupid. So I'm not really a big fan but I can still see that, you know there's a little charm in it when you see the Old Second Edition model, especially even the Rogue Trader like the b key ones on their land Speeders and

the weird old bikes. So like kind of like in those but in general I don't play those armies. I don't play the Imperium. Just play xenos or chaos. And, yeah, that's sort of when I mean, when you only paint a lot

of stuff for tourneys, right? That's when you sort of get this feeling that painting is no longer and something enjoyable, it's something you just do you have to do it, you have to get it done because it needs to be done for the tournament and you need to paint this thing because it's the best and you need to be

able to win. And I did that for many years until 48 took a turn for the worse in the end of The middle half, I think of seventh edition and it just got boring, just just got sick of it, it's just started feeling stupid when everything could charge first turn without the opponent doing anything to react and that's when I stopped playing Warhammer. Altogether. Just stop playing War Machine and hordes instead. And I did that for a couple of years before their Nostalgia

nerve hit me again. And I started with the old hammer or hero, Hammer era models. So nice - cool. Yeah, I remember, I think I remember playing 7th edition, 40K only because the other guys were playing it and I had like my Deathwing. I think it was a time when the Plastics terminate is came out. It was that addition. I don't know if that's seven addition. I have absolutely no idea, even him, I don't even know what it is.

And what addition it was to be honest, I was playing my Dark Angels and I had like a Deathwing Army and I'll put my stuff on the table and he got the first turn here, but you playing turn heads or something like that. And basically, he The bucket of dice like no joke, it was like 50 dice. He was throwing at me from all these shooting attacks and I just thought this is just not fun. It's just not a really a fun game at all. It basically has become a bucket of dice game. Basically.

Yeah, that was though. That was an issue as well mean and I'm assuming he had a couple of flying how tyrants with all the strength six shooting, which means that terminate his toughness for. I mean, you won't them on twos. They probably had, they could even have preferred enemy back in the day. So you could, we will the ones and it was just, I mean, the Terminators have a 2 plus a, but they still only had one Moon back in those days.

It was like, yeah, they're going to die if you want them enough, they're gonna die. So it was all about volumes of shots and that's stores. I mean, I mean, Iran demons with an entire unit of screamers with hair. Alton them, and the entire unit had a two plus in will save with re-roll. So everyone in 72 wounds, I took one Moon, so that's crazy. I mean, even the massive shooting of a garden taotie was insane.

I mean, even they couldn't, they could not, they couldn't touch it. They couldn't even break through anything. It was like, but the sad part was that it would, the game was designed. So that if you didn't have a 2 plus involved with the re-roll or some spell that made the enemy only hit on sixes. Then you would have to get shot to bits the first turn. Yeah, sort of like what happened to you then? Yeah, it's just the game took such a large.

Like they went to for much one way and then they had to balance it out by going way, too far the other way and I'm quite happy that the scrap the entire thing. And then started a tradition which was completely different. They just took a lot from agency more and just really redid the entire thing. But yeah. Think back I think I came through like a transition of ownership to I think. Games which had changed hands in management and all that kind of thing, like upper management, the CEO left.

And I think maybe new fresh ideas came in and you people came in and sort of just revitalized their systems more or less a Yeah, I think so. And of course, I mean SS, the release of ancient Sigmar and that when When Games Workshop finally started caring about the community again and actually integrated them, you know, they ask questions, they had a team working, they have playtesters, they just look at who are the biggest bloggers in the biggest players in the world.

We need them and they sort of got their help and they started reaching out to the community, and they started releasing FAQ is more regularly and such. And it's just yeah, when they started doing that, I mean someone showed the graph. The other day that GW has increased their like It's by thousand percent in the last five years which is of course, insane. And the pandemic has probably helped them. I think in large part because people are staying home, buying models and building stuff.

So I think it's nice that they have gone more back to basic. I remember when I played the first game of 9th Edition, I actually got a very second edition vibe from it which made me a little happy. So Nice, mate. Okay, that's great. I haven't, I haven't touched any of the new additions and I'm very really touch anything that can switch to bring out now, you know, that's just, just just me just out of lack of Interest or I'm just not going to spend the money on all this new stuff anymore.

It's just I've been there done that kind of thing. And I love me and I think for most most of us most of us now who in this kind of hero, Hannah kind of movement a cult Maybe Yeah we're also the same thing was sort of just thing. We'll hang on. We didn't finish all this stuff back in the in the 90s, why the hell should we go? And start new stuff? When we got all this other stuff to finish off or discover all, and that kind of thing.

So, But I think a large part that, I mean, the hero Hammer Community has become such a nice Community. I mean, people are really supporting each other's and really supportive of any project or any thoughts or and it's just people are making lists about you know, making the fun of it and how should we have fun in this game? And I don't know that that part really tickles me because I mean, we're all we've all gotten pretty old, right?

Probably the one of the youngest in the community, if we don't count, you know, polish Marcel. But, and I'm 33. I mean, some, most people are definitely in their 30s. Probably in the early 40s which means that, you know, chasing tournaments and becoming the best that a miniature game. Its most people aren't really there in this community, which is very nice II. Don't have any interest at all in playing like, If the addition competitively, I think it's

rather uninteresting. I just like to get the coolest models and paint them and of course if you build a list you can look at what's good and what's bad. But I mean I mean mummies for example, I remember playlist calls talking about how bad they were. They were just horrible and I just thought yeah, but they are awesome. They're like some of my favorite models in the on date range and I have 20 of them. So I'm going to play them. I need them because they're so

cool. So I totally agree and I think mummies are just fantastic models. And man their stats that those stats is call out to me. Like yeah, you need. I've got how many I got a only eight of those but mean, that's what is that amount about 400 points 300? Yeah, it's just insanely expensive, but their stats are just amazing. Yeah, this incredible. Yeah. I mean, they're really slow and that's sort of the point.

So I mean it's I mean, there needs to be some balance somewhere, and I was really happy because I started. I just got my Krell home the other day, because I have a building in an army lists for 6th edition fantasy that they released in the white dwarf, called Army of the Cairns, which is like Heinrich himmler's, personal Army and it's very much has the feeling of the old Undead because you have wells, you have grave guard, they're called Barrel guard.

You still have into Two, one switch is like mummies and they have ghosts, as well, not the Banshees, but ghosts, and they have a character on a chariot that can make the Chariot fly, which is very Arkin feeling. So, yeah. It's just like, I really enjoy that that Army and I thought it was sort of it felt a bit like in a marsh to like the hero Hammer days at the undead Army book when they release that. So, Really enjoying those. It's supposed to let me rule of

cool is the way to go, right? Yeah, I think so. Just go with what you like. I think nowadays. Yeah. That's the best. Have you ever seen? Have you seen the 4th edition? One of the undead book? Oh yeah, I have it. Oh cool. Yeah, it's one of my favorite ones actually is awesome. Yeah, I really enjoy it. I think it's fantastic. I am missing the fifth edition. One of the vampire count book though, which I wish I really want to get a whole lot, but every time it pops up on Swedish

eBay. It goes for like 40 euros and I really don't want it. Yeah, I don't want it that much. Yeah, okay, yeah. It's yeah, that's the thing, right? I mean, old Hammer is really popped up again and the people want the old stuff.

Hmm. it's really noticeable on the auction sites and I think that's it's rather wonderful that and I from what I gather, the pandemic has helped a lot with this since people were sort of people have been home for a year and when you're home and you don't have much to do is you start maybe picking up old Hobbies old projects when you realize that you can sit in a meeting whilst building models because you might only be an audio or something or they don't see your hands.

So you do, you can build models at the same time. It's seems to get people interested. And I mean, the hero Hammer group and the Chrono command podcast community, and we're minutes grown so much in the past year. It feels like it's grown a lot in the last. Just six months or something since the challenge started. And I sort of to me since painting since I talked about, you know, painting became sort of a chore that you just had to do.

I remember when I stopped playing war hammer and I played War Machine and hordes instead and I got a new Army that was just released and I really like the aesthetic of it and I just got like, you know, one unit and one character. And then I spend the nights painting those models with no rush, no, not chasing a tournament, no rush with it at all. And I just really enjoyed the

painting. That's also where I started like advancing as a painter, as well, because I didn't need to do it very quickly anymore so I could just try to I mean, instead of dry brushing and washing, I could try the highlighting thing because I'd really never given that much of a try.

Well while back in, you know, 2010 or something with some ogres for Fantasy. My friend gave me, his ogre Army and said you need to paint this because you need to work on highlighting because you're painting sucks. And I thought well, thank you I guess. Yeah, thanks very much. Yeah, exactly. Thank you very much but at least he gave me an ogre Army. So I mean that was nice. But yeah, that's sort of my highlighting started but then I removed it.

I mean, I stopped doing it because it wasn't quick enough. I started to, I needed it to be done faster. So I mean, I remember I mean I painted like a hundred gaunt's term organs in a day. I mean in an evening so sitting up all night before the tournament just getting everything done, everything painted everything. Finished. And when I started painting at night back in 2017, I think painting the new Army and just enjoying the painting. That's what I really fell in

love with painting again. That I thought this is really enjoyable and when doing it slowly and taking your time, it's actually very therapeutic. And yeah and I think when I like personally, I had almost hit the hit a wall back, then I sort of work too much and had to let it go see a doctor because of stress and such. So I stopped all my you know I got off all the board's I was on and then I stopped studying and just kept working like 40 or 50 percent and yeah then it was

really therapeutic at night. It really made my mind calm down. yes, I really enjoyed that and when I started painting, the second edition Orcs is, when I really started, you know, Falling in love with this, the style of painting. So now I use spacing the only contrast paint to paint make sometimes use an airbrush. But when the painting the old Hammer I really like that. The contrast paints are so

vibrant. So they really get this old or hero Hammer feel and then of course not highlighting them makes them seem kind of flat and not very good which is think the problem is people don't like Because they think it's just the one thick coat and then it's done. And that's of course, how jump DW markets as well, one of the coat and then you're done. Yeah, sure. That that might be enough to, you know, to get it on the

table. But once you start highlighting the contrast and I do that by just mixing, the same contrast paint with white regular paint, not the contrast. So, I mean, it for my Orcs, for example, I paid orc flesh. And then I just mix that with what Leo's dead white, the regular one, and then I highlight with that. Just mixing more white, which means I never need a lot. I mean, I always mix colors. I'm not big on the whole, no mixing. I'm an orphan mom.

A number of friends of mine hate mixing colors because they always forget how like, how do they move on? How did they do it last time? How was the mix? And so on, but I just think mixing is for Superior. So, yeah, I've been really enjoying this way of painting. The contrast makes it feel quick and the highlights makes it pop. So, Yeah, yeah, really look like the look of your old, boys. You done with contrast paints. I think it does give that really

vibrant. Look to them the good nice red booties on and that kind of thing. So that really second edition in their Aesthetics. So I think, yeah. I think contract contrast paints does work for that old old Hammer sort of look to them, don't they? You know, for second edition especially because they're very bright colors. Usually Oh yeah, definitely. I think they're just yeah I think they're fantastic for that. Old feel and I did have a period in my life.

When I didn't do a lot of Warhammer when I sort of moved to this town, I live in. Now I live for the South before and I didn't do very much Warhammer just a bit here and there but a fantasy and then I got here and I had my own business. I worked as a body artist so I did a piercing since carbocations and such and I worked here and then it turns out there was a gaming Club. In town and I saw on the Swedish 40K for him that someone had asked that they wanted to organize.

The tournament that didn't really know how to do it and I thought, hey I give you, I'll give you a hand, I sort of enjoy it. So I went there and met this guy which is nowadays. We're very good friends to sue name is Christopher, he's also place. He also I mean as soon as I started sixth edition fantasy a couple years ago I just pulled him into it immediately and he was totally, you know, hooked on it as well. And we have yet to play a game because we don't live in the

same town. Anymore. So which is how I feel is a regular problem. What do you like? Oh yeah, I want to play older editions and then you realize there are people who want that too, but they are an hour away two hours away, five hours away, or a different country or in different countries. Some of them are even, you know, in Japan. So you would have figured that out. All right. Yeah, it's just so weird.

And in that sense, it's just It's nice that there's so many people interested and I think it will be awesome. I mean I talk to Marcel Marcel in Germany and we were discussing it with out how fun it would be to have sort of an event maybe in Germany or Denmark, maybe like Northern Germany. So it's easy to for people to get to, in Europe. It will be so much fun to like gather the hero Hammer Community for a weekend of play and such for some sort of event, maybe a tournament, or maybe just a

massive playdate. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah, we have, we have been throwing out the idea of doing going the to, they bring out your lead in the UK, at some point in the future. Probably not this year next year, maybe the year after or something like that but yeah, that's definitely a possibility. It's sort of, you know, fairly Central to everybody I guess in that part of part of the world. Yeah bring out your letter would

be amazing to get you. I mean I just heard about that I think it was two years ago or so I found the old her old Hammer Forum which is probably one of the only active Forum still one of the few anyway and there is something about bring out your lead or said boil and I had like what the heck is that isn't that the guy and you know, Brooklyn Nine-Nine and then it turns out it was just Bring out your lead and I thought.

What the heck is this? And I started reading about it and I thought this sounds like a like a dream like the best Convention of all time. So yeah, really hoping to get to that one day. Yeah man. I think we're all sort of hoping that we can all do it and manage it at some point. Probably in the next couple of years. I don't think international travel is going to be kind of lifted as in, you know, ease of access of flying places anytime soon. So probably a couple of years time.

It's more of like a realistic data, isn't it 20:23 or something like that? I'd say, but that how A bit like, you know, having like a even like sort of like a big narrative campaign, 50 addition game or doing like a something similar to that for second edition. 40K. Yeah. That would be amazing. I mean, I looked through all my old stuff and sold some models like old Hammer model from Trader cows dreadknots and such.

And I talked to a couple of people in the second edition 40K group and then you realize that they're in Britain and they have

all these old armies. And this guy I sold the Rogue Trader. Chaos tried not to He showed his corn Army and it was just I think his name is Morgan Sinclair and the Army. If you guys are in the second edition for the gate group, just search for his name and you'll see the pictures of his corn Army and it was freaking magical and I was so happy that he was the one who bought my old models because I know that they're going to get love here.

It's always nice. Knowing when you sell models that they arrived to someone who will paint them and give them the love they deserve. So I talked to him and he saw my cinch demon models that which are also like rotary Rogue Trader era. Third Edition fantasy, I think and we said, yeah, I have to bring those over so we can get in a big, you know, corns each game going.

So, yeah, it would be wonderful to get to bring out your lead to see how it is, and, of course, meet everyone because I mean, basically, none of us have met each other. We're sitting here, you know, on the Discord re close to every night talking painting but no one's really met anyone. Yeah, we might actually just go there and just talk for like four days and not actually play any games with that. Be funny. All right. Yeah. We meet each other and then we

all hate each other. Yeah. We're just gets underway by each other. Yeah. Once on the internet. Yeah, annoying. Yeah. Yeah. You'll definitely happen. Yeah. One day. Yeah. I hope so. And now, I've really gotten into the painting challenges with chronic command the called the crown challenge. I thought it was so enjoyable because I thought, maybe, I could finally finish an army 200 points a month, that's not a lot. I can do that, and I can do it too. To an okay level, I think.

So I started painting, you know, how focused on the Demons, of course was either. Back to, as I know, I can't do the demons for the challenge. I put way too much energy into them. I even 200 points a month is too much for that Army. And that's also saying something because demons cost, you know, a ton of points in fantasy. So I switched to a accounts and did those instead.

But then when I saw the doctor, the Viking doing his second edition 40K Challenge. And I was sitting here with all my old Works fresh from the stripper. I thought this was, I need to do this, so I contacted him and he said, yeah, we're just going to Art the second season as you can send in, you know, pictures in Armistice and stories. And yeah. So I got to it and I think that's also been a wonderful Community experience. Wonderful to see all the old 40 cases.

Very nice to be part of both challenges because you get to see both versions, you know. Like you get to see the fantasy Orcs And The 40K works and all the old nasty fantasy stuff and the 40K stuff, which is very wonderful. Because there's something Beautiful about ugly models.

Isn't there? When you look at something and you look at like modern models or maybe like early 2000s before they started doing everything with, you know, flying cloaks models are objective the very, very beautiful but when you see like the old 40K or grins, I mean, they're just so ugly that you have to love them because they're just, they're, they're so ugly that they become beautiful, in that sense in Do we have an expression called ugly? Beautiful food snaggy, which is very good.

So, Yeah. It's just there's something magical seeing all this stuff and people having it all at home. It's just truly wonderful and hoping I can make that challenge if I realized today. I forgot all my 10 orc boys that I'm painting, I forgot them at my girlfriend's, I packed everything up and then I was ready to leave and then I forgot that box and I when I was 14, I just realized dang it. I was going to finish that was these couple of days but finally you know I have to do them this

weekend. But yeah, it's been really enjoyable painting. The models and you know, painted he's older works and the fact that they're single cast models. I remember you. And I talked about that you preferred the models with the plastic arms because they were sort of, I don't know, you found the more Dynamic just like the style of them. I think they're just bulk here in the bibs. Got much better detail on them.

I don't mind the, the ones especially ones, you have that variant, you've got and not too bad. This little like that there's this is a variant with this like really, really quite skinny. And they're all sitting on to the side, they're sort of shooting from the hip. You know, I don't like those particulars that they're way too small, but the ones you have and not too bad but I prefer the ones which we just don't have the arms and they're much bigger

and bulkier. I completely agree with you. That's also why I have these ones because I had the other ones, you know, the like the really old Rogue Trader. Once we're there, she said they should from the side, they're all and they're all very skinny. I had some of those and I saw them off. And then I realized that that in 1991, there were marauding Orcs released with bolt guns and I

tried to find each sculpt. So, and now I have 10 of each sculpt of five different Scopes. So, How do you say I have 50 of them and 10 of each so, to speak, right? So the ones you're paying now for the marauder ones. Yeah, they're The Marauder models. Yeah. They're all them are order style rifles and they're sort of like The Inbetweeners, right? Yeah. They still have the Mana post, like single model cast so no gluing but they've gotten a bit

bulkier and they still they are. They've gotten the wide or grin of the 90s. Yeah, so that's also why I really prefer that Cool. Yeah, I thought like I said, like, you know what we talked about before, I really love the fact that they're all pretty much all single cast models. I'd have to pin anything together main I did. Like I did like Infinity for like 10 years and by the end of it, I mean, it was just it just drove me bloody nuts.

Like, you know, I do buddy drill my bloody finger with the bloody pin Vise. I would, you know, I do. I'll just stick my fingers together point trying to put these tiny little Parts together. It's small very small joins their beautiful But wow, wow, they like to such a pain in the butt back side to put together and coming back to the the single single piece models. A single cast ones, has just been a breath of fresh air and

they're just so much better. I just, yeah, I think, once I made the big switch, I've never regretted it. Even though I can really appreciate the Aesthetics of a lot of the 3D modeling, and a lot of the modern Miniatures. These days, it look really outstanding. They just don't have the charm and, and character that the old models do but maybe Be, that's just me. I think it's you and everyone else in this community I think. And even now mean when I post pictures online in modern 40K

groups as well. I mean there are or groups on Facebook and I post them there and there are so many people saying I love the basis because the bases are gobbling green with flock. And some of them are just like all that is old school and they're loving it. It's the same one I posted with the Swedish 40K groups, people are loving it because it's old school. And It has a certain Nostalgia charm that most people that played in the early 2000s or 90s.

They really the ones that had a kind of got a taste of the hero. Hammer models or not, even the waters itself, but just how it looked on the table. We know what the green clock, the green cloth, and the grass Hills and weird buildings and such And people just got this feeling that this is how it's supposed to look this so bad if you looks and nowadays, when I look at 40K battle fishermen, they look amazing and they look

close to realistic. Gorgeously done with everything all the terrain, and they gave me maths and such, but once you start pulling out the old stuff and you paint them beautifully, and you put goblin Green, frock on their base. People are still tickled by that, you know, even when they don't play it, they don't have it themselves.

They still get this. As you said yeah, this charm that they feel when they see it. So yeah, I think it's that's a big part and I think also that's why it's come back. I mean the community is growing Everyday People missing the old

stuff. Hypnose vehicle. Yeah, I think I think people are sort of reminiscing about the past or had more time to think about their gaming and where they stood in like, you know, had they had enough of just these games being recycled over and over and over again and they just gave up and thought Margaret, I'm going to go back to the additions that I really enjoyed or the models. I really like to paint all the armies like to play or that kind of thing. Maybe it does feel like the, the

90s, like the hero Hammer days. What do you say it like yours, the fourth edition and fifth edition fantasy along with second edition 40K. They seem to have a very large following compared to other editions 6th edition. Fantasy also has a large following but I mean there's a group for Third Edition 40K and it just started a couple of weeks ago I think it has hundred members and people are already like, yeah, but it's a third edition.

It should probably be third and fourth, because they quite similar sort of like, the hero Hammer fantasy or Additions but it's just nice to see people falling back to editions. That they really loved and Third Edition 40K is a big load for me because just like, 6th edition fantasies where I started. And it's it's also the one of the longest going editions. It was going on for a really long time, which means they released a lot of army books and codexes.

And, you know, campaign books and alternative Army lists in chapter approved. And and you Some Chronicles as though sixth edition Third Edition 40K, as 60% dfb sort of has this, I don't know. I did. It's they're so they're so massive and what exists, which makes it very enjoyable. I think. Yeah, I think so too, man. Now, have you actually played a game of second edition recently? Or I to be honest? No, I have never played a game of second edition for okay.

Okay, purely. I mean, I, I've only played with the second edition, codex's ensure Edition and that did not work. So but I do have a couple of friends here, who did playback in broke Trader. And I told them that I had had almost finished painting my Orcs planet. Get them done by this summer and then they were like yeah we're coming down, you know, because they're about two hours North from here and you have to come down here. I said and teach me second edition and they were just oh yes.

So they started digging out their old, you know, Imperial Garden. Eldar and such from the 90s because they were really excited, but then they said I don't have any other code exists and I just laughed and said, yeah, well I have actually collected almost all of them. So if you bring the Imperial Guard I can get you the Codex. Nice my that's awesome. Yeah I think yeah I think by the summer I think that The floodgates will open.

I think people will be either ready to come out of their homes or being vaccinated or whatever and then start playing lots lots of games so be quite exciting to see. Definitely. Yeah, really looking forward to it and it's going to be so much fun to play the older editions and play some fantasy again. And I'm probably moving this

summer. I'm moving to my girlfriend's which is a couple of hours North and it turns out I was looking for warmer players in that area and I was like oh the man they were I don't know if there are any down there and then I saw that Ted Ted Gunderson with the cows Warfare Army, he lives just half hour from where I would move. So I was like, There's a Hero Hammer dude right there. Brilliant, you take. I can't, I can't. I can't play those beautiful cows tours.

So really looking forward to meeting up there. So and I also found a gaming Club down there and people playing, and I posted some more pictures and people were loving the old style and you never know if people are going to love the old editions. So I like that which is also why I like I'm basing my models based on the current edition

which is why I like my work. Sauron 32 mm basis and yeah, it's sort of like to base them, the my, my buggies and such on the new buggy basis, and I like to base them on the current basis because that way, I can play them in any addition, so to speak. So if someone says to me, I want to have a game of fourth edition. I'm like, yeah, sure, no worries. I have the fourth edition 40K or maybe a real book. We can play it if you want to play second edition.

Yeah, I have that too. If you want to play 9th Edition sure. Let's go ahead. So I To keep it as why it is possible so to speak. Yeah, that's cool. That's where I mean yeah, basically in the competition doesn't make a huge difference anyway. I mean it's just a base. You just measure from the center of the model is the same diff anyway innit. Yeah. And to me it just seems that in second edition. People don't really care. It's yes. It's just all about the rule of cool.

If you base your, I mean, I would note and I would never ever base my models on Square bases in 40K because to me it just feels wrong even if it was that way in the code exists. You know, some of the dreadknots and the hype Tyrant and such to me, it just no, no square is fantasy and round is 40k that. That's, that's how I tell them apart, you know? Yeah. So I always go with the round basis, but I've never seen anyone to comment on a base.

I mean, when you see modern models in 40K groups on Facebook, for example, someone posts a model on the wrong base and then there's like a hell of a discussion. That's not legal, you know? And I've never ever seen that in any of the here, a second edition groups, Never it's and that's very nice to see that people don't care. Yeah, that's true. And it's funny. The point out the square base on that on the, on the, is it the tyranids or some of the models for the, for the terminals?

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I saw those. Yeah. And I actually forgot that they were on Square bases. It's so weird to look at it now. But yeah, they were in square bases. It was really weird because they didn't have big large round bases in production at the time. So That was the only thing that could base them on. So, yeah, I would much prefer to see those around bases. Yeah, definitely it just feels

it feels more right. It just does and I think it's and I would never complain if someone based them on squares. I thought, you know, you to you is your models but myself I would never be able to it. It would just feel it would not be. In line with what I was thinking. But that's also because I started playing in Third Edition where everything had around

bases. There were no Square bases and Third Edition, if I recall correctly, even the turn, it started moving to round basis there The Hive time. It wasn't a 40 mil round base. And the yeah, that's actually when they got the Epic bass, you know, the young Baker, epic Titan base, like there was a little flatter than the regular. And I remember the car Fix was actually based on those along with this the dreadknots as well and Third Edition.

All right let's sort of move to the polar probably because you know they hadn't produced the 60 mm basis yet. So yeah just yeah they just went with the ones they had so yeah. Cool. I didn't know that nice one. Yeah. What really bugs me about that though is the like what it comes to g.w. showing things that maybe aren't really supposed to be is if you look at the Third Addition tyranids and you look at the hype Tyrant and the carnufex even on the boxart, they are wearing these.

They have these huge monsters citing talents, right? And the ones that are on the model, on the box are not the ones you get in the Box, the ones on the model are the same ones as on the lichter and ravinder. But the ones you get in the Box are made from plastic and completely different shape. And look, look a lot more ugly than the other ones on the market. And I thought this is really funny because it just shows that you w themself know that the models look better with this.

So let's show them with that. But that we don't put it in the box which is something I hadn't even thought about until I got all the pieces home for these old models. And I realized this is wrong, this is not how it's supposed to be. So yeah that was wait. Yeah no sir. Okay cool. But yeah it's yes. I mean I'm I've been in this hobby now. For what 20 20 years, roughly, exactly 20 years I just turned 33 and my 30th birthday was when I got my first models. So nicely young pup.

Yeah. Yeah. Still the young pop definitely in this community was not a regular. Community. You know, you're starting to get old. Yeah. Yeah. But that is actually an issue. I mean I remember I was talking about that at our gaming Club. We're trying to really get kids into the community into the club to play 40K and fantasy and just do some modeling and realize this is a nice hobby because we realize that, we're all getting older and even at the tournaments, people are getting older.

They're not, there's not a lot of fresh blood coming in. Hmm. And which is the problem. I feel if you want to. Yeah, that's right. I bet you continue but apparently, I mean, GW are doing very well. I mean, there are the prophets are greatly increased so they're probably they're mean, they're not dying. Yeah. So something seems to be going, right? But I don't know it just if the game dies out in your community where you live, then it's still a problem.

Yeah, for, for that community, so to speak. So we're trying to Incorporate two kids and getting them into the game. Yeah, my I had, I had one of my students come back to me at my school, just dropped in, just by chance because I think it's on holidays, at the moment and he's going to UNI now so you started uni and I've been teaching for like, I don't know, five years or something like that before

then. And I started, I started bringing like Talisman second edition and playing with with him and a few other kids around his age in high school and during High School, And they really enjoyed playing the game. And his English ability is quite good because he lived in Australia for like a year and he came in.

And he said, I like I'm pretty bored and that kind of thing, I did not to do and I said, look like, I've got a board game here you can take it. Just take it home and just play it with one of your friends or, you know, to start reading the rules and that kind of thing. Learn how to play it. Come on, bring it back and we'll play a game together. So I gave him the that, you know, the underworlds board game. The first one. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not. So I don't. You want to see what's the first

one shade Spire shade spot? Yeah, I gave him that because I've got it in a trade with a guy here in Japan and I did I didn't mind playing the game, it's got quite the some really nice mechanics with the cards and that kind of thing the miniature. Yeah, it's not really my taste but I've got my Undead warband and that's that's all I need. I think that the coolest looking guys on the Block, But as I just gave the game a little bit, you know, just take it.

You know, he said I was cool. Thanks, I'll take it to the university and I said, make discount start a boardgame club or something like that there and you'll find something with guys who want to play. So hopefully we've got a new gamer coming through the ranks there and he'll he said, I said go to the Games Workshop in Tokyo because there's a there's a number of those Warhammer stores there and you can buy some extra, you know, wall bands order for it.

And he might now cities because you look For a job. I said once you learn the game and go work for Games Workshop down there so I might do that. So yeah, be quite cool but quite cool to see him to be kind of gamer in the future to see the hobby spreading. Like the virus it is but yeah, it's just yeah, wonderful. And I think underworlds is a brilliant game to start off with. It's just you don't need very many models and you get into

this miniature gaming mechanic. It's even if it's a board game, you still use Miniatures. You sort of have to paint them and you get this feeling that maybe you want to expand. Maybe you want to get like an army trying to play an army game were maybe a gang games. You can play Nick Rimando or Or cry, whatever they're called nowadays. And yeah, the videos are there a lot of worm restores in Tokyo? Yeah. There's at least three or four. I'm thinking there's about four of them.

I've never been to one, but I know they're there and yeah, but, you know, I don't, I don't have any particular reason why I should go there at all, to be quite honest with you, but, but I'll be up for younger. They go there and have a game of where my fantasy fifth edition, but I'll be thrown that I was right out of the place. I reckon, I don't know what they like, now, with that. I'll be wonderful. Like is it alright to book a table and play a game?

It's like yeah sure start bringing I don't know your square base models. And yeah if you're lucky the people working there are going to be like oh, this is wonderful. You know, it get hit right right in the Nostalgia. Yeah. Maybe maybe they might really appreciate it. I don't know. They're probably thing. You know, what the hell are these things? They'll pick them up, go. It's made of metal.

Like, it's really heavy. Like the really shocked It's because of you all these young guys, they've never seen anything like it, what we used to do, we used to go down to the local game store and which is like you could hire like a table for the day. And yeah, we will be like the cows, Roadshow like the cows. Roadshow was a thing back in the, the old Hammer days and like really early 90s, where they'll bring, you know, the studio staff and they'll bring

all them. There may be like a heavy metal painter, and they'll run demonstration games, and that kind of thing at the local. Games Workshop stores, we're kind of like that for Japan will bring all their old games down and people will be like, oh wow, you know, like oh yeah, I remember all these models from all these, you know, all those years ago and yeah we're kind of like the museum museum tour or something like that. Maybe, I don't know.

But yeah, it's been fun. We enjoy the, we enjoy the reactions. We get from people when they look at the Miniatures and they really enjoy the old stuff I think. Yeah, it's been quite cool. I talked to the guy and I just hope this is, this is the most beautiful Army here hands down. And and he was so happy and he was like, yeah, I really like these old models and their I used to play them in the 90s and I was like, yeah, this is unbeatable. But of course not.

Everyone feels that way. And my friends here the thing. Crazy. It's like why would you only want ugly models? That's what they tell me. Ugly, the bloody beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. I think that, I mean, but they really love the modern stuff which is like and to me it's just I mean, I sort of embrace that I usually tell people, when they say, I have some old stuff lying around. And I just tell ya if it's old and ugly, that's what I want. Yeah, that's what I love.

Yeah. They always metal as well. They were, I just got some cheering its home today in metal. And some guy just said, I have all these and they're in metal. But then I also have these in plastic and I was just, yeah, I'll give you whatever you want for the metals, I'll take metals and yeah, a rather and it's rather enjoyable how people are just throwing it away. When some of us are just, oh yeah, this is the stuff.

Yeah, I know that we played a game of advanced he requests and, you know, you got the heroes that are made of plastic and it's a board game. So, You know, naturally a lot of components of in plastic anyway, but it's just, it was interesting to me how flimsy the models are because like, you know, just one slight touch and they're like falling over and

like, kind of stuff. And I just love the heft and weight waiting this to metal models that, you know, you can slide them around and move them around without them, sort of falling, like, dominoes with plastic models, it's always the case. I remember playing with my mate, Brad playing 40K and I think it might have been Third Edition.

It might have, it must have been Third Edition because I think it's about That time was out and he had all plastic Marines and everywhere I put them and set them up on the, on the, in the building stuff. That always fall over. You know, you put your hand to grab something at. You'd knock five minutes over at the same time. So yeah, I just don't really appreciate playing with plastic models. Unless it's epic Space Marine and then you know you've got no choice and it's not really such

a big issue. Yeah I completely agree with you. It's when you lift the model and you get this. Wait yeah. Do you feel that there's a model here and you don't tip it over by looking at it you know? It's yeah I think that's but the problem with the mental models is of course we I mean sometimes you just look at them in the paint falls off, that's also not very enjoyable. Well, it depends how you varnishing, you should really banish them.

So it's just like, ever since I discovered varnish, I always paint that mean probably two or three like thick layers on it. Yeah. Just too. Make sure that this sticks it should be sealed. Yeah, I mean, plastic models will, they'll rub off the paint will rub off. I mean, it nothing's Everlasting, but I always get comments, people saying about Metal models to paint will rub off, but, I mean, unless you're doing something really horrible with them, I don't see how that

could really happen so much. But unless you're sort of picking like getting your hands and just grabbing a whole stack of them at the same time and letting them rub against each other. Yeah, of course, you know it's the paint's going to rub off and Match but if you look after them you shouldn't really have much issues, I'd say but that's good. It's good to know you're doing The Vanishing on them on the Miniatures made. That's good.

Yeah, what I really love about the varnish is like people people think that it's only for protecting the models, but it really smooth highlights out. Yeah, it really makes it. If you've done like a gradient highlight and then you varnish it, it makes it look so much more beautiful. I did this for my Zine Steve. Emmons and I just spray them airbrush that mean varnish just covered them and it worked so well and it just made everything look so much.

Better really Matt models. Do look a lot better. The paint comes out really, really nice looking. So, I went through a stage of not, not actually Vanishing anything, so it's quite scared of the varnish. What, how it, how it would alter the actual outcome of the colors and the, and the either, the vibrancy, or the matte finish or

For my models. Yeah, so I went through a bit of a stage where, I just didn't varnish anything, but I'm now back to varnishing stuff again now, but any of the ones I haven't vanished. I haven't really suffered greatly through play or anything like that. So, yeah, I know some people don't even prime Miniatures, which is incredible. Some people just don't even prying them. There's paint straight over the metal, so I think we're all gonna do that.

To me is just that's crazy. Yeah, that's Madness. Yeah, I think so too. No doubt. Even though I own an airbrush and I really like using it, I know number friends of mine. They they just Prime everything with the airbrush, but I still use the spray. Can I just think there is? Yeah, that's a good point. Even when I use the primers and the airbrush I just, it doesn't stick as well as the spray does. That's true. I would agree with that. Yeah. Yes. I am. I always try to use the spray can.

And now, of course, I'm using the great poem primer, mainly because it is contrast paints, but otherwise, I, Using the cows, black and the cortex white primary. I mean, this is really also, when it comes to primers, I think GW their primers are so Superior to all other brands that I've used, which is kind of funny. I don't really know why, but I mean, I've used Games Workshop primers, outside in Sweden, in any weather rain or snow and nothing matters. They just poured perfectly every

time. Most if you have, like an army, caters paykan, that are we painting strikebreaking that I used? Or was the other One that I don't even recall, I think it Bears. I used a number of different companies. It's called the ak ak primers. All right. And I used a bunch of those different ones and the soon as it's, you know, a little humid or raining and it just doesn't work, you need a dry sort of version or side dry, what you saying, right? Place to be.

Mmm. And with the GW, can't I just Walk right on the balcony and just go nuts with the snake and it's okay, very thankful in that sense. Yeah, yeah, I've been using the airbrush, two prime ministers for years and it's just out of convenience. I think more than anything. But I do have a spray of because I can get pretty cheap here in Japan and pretty, you know, almost anywhere now. But yeah, get like a little can of white spray just for stuff that I need to do with that if

that's if that's needed. But yeah, I know what you mean. I The aerosols they do that. The paint does stick to them a lot lot better than the, than the airbrush primer. But yeah, I mean even if sometimes I'll just use the aerosol cans. Just just to I mean, just to touch the Miniatures. You know, just spray them tiny tiny bit. Yeah. And then I can prime the rest with airbrush. Sure. But just to get that first layer of Coat. So this primer think it's

important in that sense. Okay, we'll put it, I think we have to wrap it up now but we're almost we're going past the hour mark. And yeah, it's been really good to talk to you. I think we should do like a hobby kind of podcast with, with lots of people on talking about their applications of either priming or painting or varnishing giving some hip tips from the community. I think that'd be really helpful. For a lot of people so it should have organized something.

Yeah, with yourself and maybe Marcel and a few other guys coming on and talking about it Benson? Yeah. That's that's so in here whiskey, was it? Yeah, he's a pretty amazing painter. Yeah, yeah. It makes you sick, doesn't it? Yes, I will definitely get him on. Yeah, yeah. Been painted our dwarfs layer for the Rune competition and

it's really amazing. Yeah. So amazing work, but I never understood how he does the paint one tiny part and then highlighted like 10 steps and then the rest is still white, you know. Yeah. Look at it and I just feel like this is insanity. Yeah, then I did the same for my vampire lord for the challenge last month. Okay. I can sort of see the charm in this. Yes. Step-by-step piece by piece. Yeah. It's very much like a Mike McVeigh.

So the Well that's what he used to do to like this bit by bit piece by piece until the whole thing's finished. Yeah. But I know it's strange. I'm yeah, I've sort of well, anyhow, we can talk about that in a hobby related podcast. I think that's a really good one to do to cover because we haven't done that yet and I think a lot of people have got all their, you know, years and years of experience to bring to that podcast in the future. So they'll be really good one to listen to.

But anyhow, Pita, I'm going to say farewell, thanks very much for coming on. It's been about Bloody time. Okay, mate, will take care and I will catch you on Discord. Now, people who don't know about Discord, we do have a Discord set up. Peta, is regularly on their, here's his username as flogger, and we've got Marcel and all the other guys there, as well. If you want to come and have a chat with us while you paint, then you're more than one more

than welcome. I'll leave a link in the show notes below so you can join us there if you're not a big Facebook founder. So the Instagram Community is also wonderful for showing off your stuff and following and such. And that's where I met Ben for the first time so it's really enjoyable. Well there there I'm called pros, play painted so you can check that out. How do you know that? - maybe we're friends and I didn't know that. Maybe I'll follow you. I don't know.

Don't think I can actually. Okay, I have no idea. That was you okay? That's good. All right, buddy. Take care of and have a good day. Alright, might see, ya, see ya.