Hey guys, thanks for tuning in. This is Josh from The Chronic, a man. Just going to make this short and sweet. Unfortunately. Me and kind of fix that. Found it difficult to get together through the week to do. Our sort of pre-show ramble about what's happening, my a social media and that kind of thing throughout Discord, but go and check that out yourself. Go to the links below and hit our Discord link, or put it into your URL, on your web browser, accept the invite and join our
wonderful growing. Group of people in our community as part of the crown of command. And enjoy what's happening on there. So yeah. Apologies again that mean kind of fix couldn't get together to do this one but it's want to get this show out because it has been a while. Been a couple of weeks before or since our last podcast was released.
Now, if you haven't listened to that, I would strongly urge you do to do that because it's one of the, my favorite ones because I had Johnny, Watson talking with me. I had the guys like Marcel and his wife and Timothy and David are talking about the old, Poland event, which is really interesting. And then we had GJ talking about
the call of the crown, sorry. Koryak all of the crown to painting challenge, which is also really good to see that really growing and Gathering a lot of interest. So, yeah, if you haven't listened to that, please, I owed you to go and do that because it's a really great podcast, I thought, and that'll tie over this week.
I think that this one as well with Louis Davies talking about the Old Hammer Fiction podcast again, if you have not visited that listen to his stories, then please go to the show notes. There's a link there that will redirect you to his wonderful podcast there. And I think you won't be disappointed especially with with the stories that he is already uploaded and taken a Norms of at a time in recording. But there's also a Deathwing series of anthologies The 40K
universe. As it's the 35th anniversary of far, Rogue Trader soloist thought. It'd be a good idea to bring some of those stories to us. So, I'm really looking forward to what's happening with that and the future of that podcast. It sounds really exciting. So, guys, look enjoy. Enjoy your painting week. I hope everyone is doing well, kind of fix. If you're out there mate, I really missed you this week, buddy, but I'll see you again soon and you guys stay safe.
Enjoy the podcast. Take care. Bye bye. Well, thanks. Wait for for agreeing to come on. Really happy that you decided to come and chat with us for for a bit. Because yeah, as soon as you know, soon as I found out about your podcast is like really interested in talking to you about it because yeah, I was really surprised to see there was somebody out there doing this but sinner such professional way, and I mean, like, you've got the right voice, you've got the right sort of tempo. To it.
Yeah. So all these old stories that I had not actually, I don't think I actually read a lot of those books back then, but I knew about them, I saw the Cutters, I saw the Ian Miller style cupboards, they had on them, the brilliant and of course, Paul Barnes artwork and that kind of thing. It was actually looking at through issue 140 of white dwarf. That's right. Yes, that's the one in it as well. The one, if it's never in a coma, but it's cool, but it was never in who's never in a
collection. I do. Change. But it was like was they I think they were basically like lining up and further collections, when they pulled the plug on it which is what used to happen with those as I think your podcast is shown quite often. But like, GW would take things so far down a track and then go actually, it's not doing quite well. We want time to stop and that would that that white dwarf 141 was that never made it into a into one of the Anthology.
So that think all really well, yeah, it's not the voyage sound physic it's not No it's basically just going through all the women novels. Oh maybe a little too. Yeah. I'm thinking of something completely different. Sorry, that's okay because I think if you busy yeah, because I wiped with 140. Yeah, so yeah, so what why do with 140 is when I quote, I collected white dwarf up until I guess up until like, the high two hundred three hundred before I realized they were slowly kind
of like making my shelves. Lamps. And it was, and I hadn't played what hammer for ages and I was like, what am I? What am I doing? Like still mindlessly buying these magazines. So I got rid of them. All and white dwarf. 140 was where I chose to stop. That's where my kind of my Warhammer story ends, right? Because it's the last issue in which they have an article about what a fantasy roleplay, right?
Okay. Now that they've got the the character rules for Beasts in velvet, which is like the carrot, you know, where they, which is a jack Bogle novel like a sort of murder mystery whodunit. And and they did they did the character stats with those for use in with rook and then the and at the same time, they published that article that you're talking about. So I was thinking of something slightly different diorama.
They were, they were they published that, that article kind of summing up the time lining, the wall of the The fantasy stories and then that was it. And that was the last time fantasy. Roleplay was mentioned, it was kind of the end of the novel's I think. I think that's the moment.
When like they're certainly you can have all of those like certainly those original fantasy novels came to an end and although I think like the 40K ones, the the in Watson, like Inquisitor chaos, child and Pollock, then they they went on for a bit but that Was kind of get for that campus, accept them. And it's clear that they kind of pulled the like, yeah, like I'm saying, pulled the plug on it so just for like this isn't making money anymore.
What had happened before, that is flame was a subsidiary of g.w. that they set up just to do the the fantasy roleplay stuff, the think of like they set up, you know, Marauder Miniatures as I could separate things. Flaying was like this separate company that was doing all those kind of off on its side. Doing all of this are doing all of the roleplay stuff and you remember the marienburg Articles, would you have open a familiarity with them? No mate.
I'm not sorry. Alright so basically they so they like from sort of won't do of 119 onwards. They were like we're going to do a role-playing set the setting for marienburg and we're going to do it in absolutely minut detail. So each article Would be about like three shops in marienburg that you could go to, as a role
player. And they were sort of, like, slowly but surely competing this world together in and it was kind of going to be a book someday, but it was just this way of know, like churning these articles out and they were incredibly low fantasy. Setting settings for forehand fantasy roleplay, like you could meet a beggar who gave you Clues, you could meet a guy who ran a quill shot They were just kind of like unlike flame. We were responsible for like
turning out that out cut. And it was really, it was really jarring thing. Because if you think about what was happening with the fantasy battle game, at that moment, they were slowly revving up to doing fourth edition. So fantasy was getting more High fantasy. If you, they were, they kind of all. They were kind of developing the ideas for the Empire where what did The Empire have? They have steam tanks, they have
War wagons. They have like A guy like what he called, the Grand Highfield gymnast riding around on a big war all to affect me and as a time, as they were kind of like, ramping up, what the empire was in the in the fantasy battle
game at was no high. I was versus goblins or whatever the fantasy roleplay game, had kind of gone off down this cul-de-sac, but they were like, let's talk about the most mundane kind of like day-to-day stuff that's happening in marienburg and can live like doing this really, really kind
of like fine detail. Like barely fantasy almost like historic role playing and you can you know as much as I love it you can see if that's the way the company was going and they were off on this kind of high fantasy Adventure. You can sort of see why the role-playing game came to an end in the way it did or where that line came to an end. Yeah, I remember coming when I went to the UK, they are already gone into like a was it the second edition?
Or I think they were still first edition but it was Hog's Breath publishing or something pogchamp. Thats it, thats hogshead hogshead. Picked it up and they went off and they planned it published. They re published a load of, basically, did reprints of the stuff from sort of 8787, onwards. And then they did one or two books of their own, they released a thing called realm of sorcery.
Choose that basically the magic rules in fantasy roleplay, but terrible would like very, very kind of cursorily Skype sketched in. And I think I've said in one of the one of the sort of review B at the end of the Fiction podcast that whenever magic comes up in these novels, it's always sound slightly wonky. Some of the worst stories are about normal magic users. And the reason for it is is they hadn't really sought it out how magic works.
So, So in a kind of like storytelling point of view they had already but in the think I like chaos, there's a concept warp corruption as a concept is really evocative and they kind of haven't gotten out. They hadn't really even really sorted out like the college's of magic at that point and stuff like that. So whenever they mentioned magic, its kind of slightly wonky and generic, so hogshead did realm of sorcery which was an attempt to rectify that you
did quite well I'd say. And then they also Did the Wolf book which people really love which is, which is about called of stone and steel. And it's kind of, like a dwarf character sort of not character belated of background setting and it's, there's loads of great stuff in that, but it's, you can see that sort of middle Hammer Vibe coming through. So like there's rules for monitors for the dwarf ships from man of war and stuff like that.
So that is if you might kind of Want to role players named wolf Naval Captain's at some point or something like that. And again, shortly after that, GW pulled the plug on it. And that and it kind of got me, got shut down and what happened till then, because it went to a second edition. Yeah. So I'm so.
So the, the interesting so all the way through that but I almost give a plug to is there was a big fan Community run like in the background there were people buying and like And run unlike some of the earliest of Internet communities over time as people talking to one another about this, this role-playing game and there was a magazine called warp Stone, which is like a banding that was being produced quite a high standard.
So like, whoop Stone, sort of ran all the way through there being nothing into hogshead and then he went to Fantasy Flight and I didn't have much to do. I never, I never bought that that in addition, but they people seemed to really, really like Fantasy Flight. Subversion, they they sorted out the sword out a lot of the magic rules. They talk about a lot of the kind of kind of rough edges around around combat. But I'm very much, a setting guy. And the setting was very much,
it felt more. Like it was kind of like the same time, the storm of chaos that was its kind of back. That was its kind of background setting. I think was like storm. Like he was set at the same time as the storm of chaos. Remember that big campaign that happened during? Like one of the later editions of Wilhelm? Yeah, yeah. Like you'd like, in the later it like, I guess like 60, something like that and they did. Yeah, it was like a big.
It was another one of those big campaign events he did wear, like, the ending wasn't quite what they hoped it to be secure the retconned, it back to. That's it was one of those whose yeah, no, actually casting win. And, and we need the Empire distilling. Exist. So they can, I've got a very dim memory of it was at the same time of that. He was in that setting and didn't like, people people seem to really like it.
They kind of play produced, tons, and tons, and tons of quite expensive climb back books. But people seem to buy up and that was really popular. And then it went into a third edition where it became a like, the kind of, how do I explain to visit? It was a game that you played like with loads. Loads of card sent to had a load like the game came in a box and it was an attempt to make more, kind of narrative sophisticated, modern role-playing game, but you needed.
All of this cardboard kit that went with it. Oh my God, my getting this wrong. Am I wrong about who? Who took over snow out? The second edition, there was a second edition, I didn't have much to do it, but then the Third Edition definitely was
fantastic flight. It was friends a in, they produce these big cardboard game which people hated because it will, it felt almost more like a board game and people didn't like, like that very much, that kind of went nowhere, and that is back in a fourth edition with lots of the original writers from first. And second, I meant, and it's like, and it's like, so much stuff. Nowadays, it's all about, kind of evoking, the nostalgic for people, and they re-released redone.
All of those, like, the, the Enemy Within campaign. That's big original campaign and they've got Glen Davis work million people like that people who are like with the original creators of Warhammer so people scanning, you know, we've kind of come full circle basically. Yes they have the fancy flight one. I know that caught a lot of flack, but it was probably 11 version of what a fantasy.
Roleplay died was actually quite interested in because I saw the cards and I'm a card guy, I love cats in my games and it just sounded really interesting way of Rotating the system that it did. Ya like like they were they were ahead of their time. Yeah. So like they're like the big thing behind it was. But the big thing behind it was that it was meant to going to be like a narrative driven thing where like you were you engaged in that collaborative storytelling.
But and like if you look at modern role-playing games now look at things like knives in the dark blades in the dark or ever like modern kind of the most Our most highly highly praised games that were then it seemed like it had those kind of ideas in it, but I think these were book like second edition I just looked up again, it was is black Industries which they remember them? They were like yep.
Yep. Like an imprint thing and then they did these really really detailed setting books and this and like I think we've, I always think role-playing is either about. Like you have really really detailed. So Thing in your exploring this world or its collaborative storytelling. And it was such just too much of a jump from Kill, like the setting, the world, the granularity to, to the, by this kind of collaborative storytelling thing. And I think people just never going to be ready for it.
And I know it probably probably the price point as well like buying extra bits of Kit to be able to like play. It was probably too much and say so lost. Am I right in thinking that you actually entered like the hobby as a role player. More than a war gamer? No, not really. I suppose I could have did it. So I got into GW when I was nine going on 10. So my first issue was white dwarf 117, which is, I remember
having these absolutely insane. Kind of conversions of a like demon princes in it and at the back. Like these come out and just me opening at magazine getting a copy of what door can be. Like what the hell is this? And this that having my mind blown and instantly addicted to it? But I think when I got into it, like the idea that you would like, either a role player or a, a war game was far less distinct.
Like, I feel like if you went into mood a GW or a UK gaming shop in 1990 91 92, you had loads of role-playing games. Alongside loads of Miniatures. So initially I would say that like when I was a kid buying these things, I've bought my copy of whatever up. When I went to secondary school or just, as I went to secondary school and I've been collecting Miniatures alongside that, and I think my play for like a couple of years is that quite a young kid doing by being into both of
these things. And I suppose I got into role-playing yet like you know, like vampire the Masquerade and stuff like that. So like that kind of came like that. Look at this, it's sophisticated. You're being a vampire and a nightclub. They want to pretend to be an elf anymore. And I kind of like moved away from GW moot, like I'd collected like a big chaos, epic Army and all that type of stuff. And also that 1314.
And then I moved on to being into world of Darkness stuff as a teenager, because it felt sophisticated and can left GW behind the don't ya? Both the role-playing and the Miniatures at the same time. I think they have That's my kind of my thing is it do is I definitely saw them as kind of existing alongside one another, which I guess these books come to reflect. Wonderful.
And and so you know we talked about we mentioned your podcast before which is the old Hammer fiction or nonfiction podcasts. Yeah leave a link in the show notes for people to go and check that out because it's really, you know, you've just sort of initially started that I thought it was actually quite an old podcast that I picked up on. But I realized it wasn't it's sort of something that you sort of recently sort of started.
So happy that all be added that all start mate, had it So, you know, you,' responsible for it all. That's gone grass left. So. And so I obviously, I've been in the old Hammer community on Facebook since about 2014 - when my daughter was born and I've obviously you get stuck in the house a lot more when you have a kid, and I was looking for and want to stop painting Army, says, playing at Privateer, Press games and stuff like that.
I want to paint for love and to just do like a billion bits, and Pieces here and there cuz I'm not going anywhere for a minute. And I started my got back into painting like old Hammer Miniatures and my particular area of Interest I would say is like 1987 to 1992, that kind of Third Edition era of Miniatures and I was really struck and I became really obsessed with this period And I think that it's really really a really
interesting period. Because I called it like I think of it as like the Cambrian explosion. Like there's this moment in evolution when like all of a sudden has all of these creatures that can live like evolved really really quickly and there's a huge diversity and that's how that period feels to me. All of a sudden games workshop's going, what if we produce board games? What if we produced like, the third edition of Warhammer fantasy battle? What if we produce games for kids?
What if we produce the record label? Like all of this different stuff. What if we go around the chaos caused in that in that here at
those two big books? And it just felt like there was this real kind of physic creativity of people kind of not knowing what they're doing and just trying stuff out and then when you get to fourth edition, you can sort of see Eeveelution taking effect and you get this kind of this kind of moment of control come in. And before that you've got the period when Games Workshop was primarily about, Playing.
And it was that you had like the kind of second edition like narrative games for what I'm a fantasy battle. But if you look at white dwarf before that period, it's a role players magazine. And it was about role-playing a brine Ansel comes in. I'm sure, you know, this story and makes the people and white dwarf move from London to
nothing them. A load of people are really quite peed off about this and they're really angry and they love it and the load of them quit or for and get some like yeah, they can Quit, and they leave a. The last issue white dwarf, they do if you read the article first, letters the first letter of the description of each article. It's spelled out sod off, Brian Ansel. I can't remember, which which is, is like, we should Miniatures.
And we're going to go down this line of like Miniatures and to an extent, the Warhammer fantasy battle IP, this setting. So that brings me back to you. So there's a podcast called The Grog nerd files and they deal with UK role-playing sort of up until from like the late 1970s up until 1987 that here and they kind of and they can have say, oh, we're quite interested in GW. But when They get mainly into Miniatures, we weren't interested in them.
Yeah, and then there's you and you are clearly like a sort of middle Hammer podcast. Looking at that fourth fifth Eric and of the bright colors, the red all of that type of stuff. Yeah. Is that fair? I love your enthusiasm and then I realized there's no podcast for the middle. There's nobody covering this. Live like tumultuous period when I basically would argue Games, workshop's IP gets created. Mhm. No night.
Like the 4th edition is riffing on things that have been established in the Warhammer fantasy, roleplay rule book that you know, this incredible. Like you know incredibly valuable IP that is you know in a million billion computer games is 40k that has coalesced before. Second edition 40K comes out that's created towards, you know, in the realm of chaos books here. So this is incredibly fascinating period.
That is creates Games. Workshop creates Warhammer do is also just like a bunch of weird kind of hippie and Midlands kind of metal heads just pulling ideas out of their ears. You know, I mean and I thought there should be a podcast that documents the history of Period in the Wake broke, not files that the earlier bit and you guys do like a deep dive into
Titan Legions of whatever. Yeah. And like documenting that you belushin and then I started doing research and there was and I came across a Blog called, awesome lines. And also some lines is the history of the Warhammer Universe. Basic is a history of Warhammer in the development of Warhammer fantasy, roleplay and stuff like that, and this blog was so good.
Good. And so comprehensive in its coverage of kind of this period of of like the story of Warhammer developing, I was like, oh man, there's no point in me making that podcast because all it would be is me. Just borrowing so heavily from awesome lies. I might like there's scarcely any point. I really recommend it as a read if you want to really know the history of like of that, of particular of the fantasy battle setting. It's so so good.
And I thought, well, that's like, that's kind of a non-starter because I'm a bit cowed by this by this blog. But then I started to think about, well, what else do I join in join podcast form. And I really enjoy short fiction podcasts. And I thought what I could do is I so I am a teacher now, but before I like moved into teaching, I trained to be a professional actor. They were to drama school and all that type of stuff I
thought. And what I did, a lot of was or trained to look, To do quite a bit because radio drama, and if there are, I can use that. And I could use the these Warhammer novels that are right from that, that kind of cussed
moment. I'd say the first four came out in 1989. And these to me, that's the absolute Crucible moment for the development of this, this IP, this, this company, or whatever you want to call it, I can use that as a way to fight, like reading these stories as a, wait, About both settings and a way to think about what this is world that we're all obsessed with what like what was going on with it. What happened? But its development and all that type of stuff.
And basically it made it made life a lot easier because I'd always intended to do it quite scripted. So I didn't have to write a 2 hour long, kind of scripture. I go. Hi guys, this week, I'm going to analyze the history of lizard men in the Warhammer world. And after like write and research all of this thing, you can do the reading. NG and then I write two sides of a for where I do the kind of commentary at the end and I find that that balance works works quite well for me.
So that's what I'm doing basically too lazy and untalented to do a proper podcast. So this reading out other people's words and then doing a little bit of commentary at the end. And the intent is that it falls in between like there's Grog mod files to my behind me as you guys in front of me. And this is the one that That's kind of that Crucible moment, but having said that I would say about it being a crucible moment, guess what? It's the moment is 1989.
I think is the most important year in the history of Games Workshop and 1989 is the year I got into Games Workshop. So I think that's the story for absolutely everybody. What was the most important year? When, the things really exciting members? The best like the day I went into a king to workshop for the first time. It's all been downhill from there, you know, it's lost. It's and my.
So there's probably, you know, I'm open to other interpretations of the history of the Warhammer IP that bank. I feel like 1989. It's a really important moment. Yep. No, I agree with you Max. I think I got it. Scotty bit 1989 as well, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've got third edition fancy battle and I got the role play book as well. From a guy at school. Hmm, he saw me that and I think a compilation of the Enemy Within campaign. So, yeah, that's right. That'd be War.
Their Adventure. I had the same one parallel lives being Blue Book. Yeah. That's right. With all the maps in the back. Yeah. Because I was just like yellow colored pages and that's right. It's really weird. Yeah, like and I think the other thing to say about about that period and the thing that I really think about it, I love about it is, I think that they were the Warhammer writers.
Certainly on woofer up were reflecting what was going on in UK politics at that moment or like the world. So like and and make it. So it's this weird thing where it's a fantasy setting, but it's also set in like late 80s, patches Britain. So if you look at like and they had, what I've heard is there's a when they were making up character classes for whatever fantasy roleplay. They used to just go out and like, Wonder around, nothing
them. And look at the people that they can see and then those people became the jobs. You could do. So you'd have like sort of like
as a character that's a board. Was like a drug dealer and a canoe and a pimp metacharacters and agitator which is like a kind of guy that sells the Socialist Workers newspaper on the streets of outdoor for on the streets of nothing and and I feel like I feel like it's a setting that's really kind of influenced by so the late 80s Margaret Thatcher's Britain but also by the fear of nuclear war and I think like what is the best one to these stories for me?
Reflect that kind of like nuclear apocalypse. It's kind of like the anxiety about a nuclear apocalypse coming. The anxiety about about radiation, like Chernobyl happened the year before Warhammer fantasy, roleplay gets published. And I think, at some level those collapsing, warp gates are like a fantasy version of Chernobyl. This thing that exploded somewhere off in the north and it's slowly going to like kill us all. Yeah. So I found that really interesting as well.
Yeah, I don't really think about it. Way. But now that you said it, I can reselect correlation there happening. Either. I really like the way that you know, after you after you read a story, you actually go into this sort of. You have it sort of a deep analysis of the writer, the history of the time and like you say that the social. Yeah. And that's like we should and that kind of thing of the influences then now and again I stole that from another another
podcast. So still has a podcast that does like there's two of them. There's a Asik ghost story podcast which works the way mine does but they do like a story and then and Analysis the end and also there's a podcast called like HP pod craft which analyzes the HP Lovecraft stories. I'm really influenced by them in Canada going. Okay let's read or analyze this story and then like do a deep dive into the background of it. Yeah, that's kind of again. No.
Like I've just nicked my ideas from other people, once more a bit like everybody who works for Warhammer. You know, I think this is a hot like, my fast is a homage to the art of theft really. As you know, like making things from Tolkien and and woke up. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not, I'm not exactly doing anything. Original here. I'm sort of just regurgitating. What's what I love about the Games Workshop hobby, from the 90s. So, it's really, yeah, I'm replicating. The paint jobs.
I'm yeah. Games like they used to and that kind of thing. So, yeah, just Taking the best bits of what we love and what we find comfortable, and what gives us joy I suppose in the hobby. But that's it. It's like it's definitely like a midlife crisis thing, I think. Yeah, I can't afford a Ferrari mate. So this is. Yeah. But, you know, that's funny. You should say that but like, you know, I'm really into, is I make dioramas. I mean, I've make like those and 1980s.
I've made a couple of though, time 1980s, Flats, dioramas know the ones who serve on the back of a white dwarf. And I think that and I think part of The reason I enjoy it so much is that I think I always wanted to do it as a kid, but if you do going to do it, you need to click the model off the base and glue it onto the diorama, and that meant that you never be able to play with that model again.
And I just didn't have the money that like to, like waste models, gluing them to a base and never using them, you know. I mean, so every time I build a diorama and like that, can the solid gold Houma can of mean bike. I feel like I'm a big, man, I can afford to do this doesn't matter. I can glue. This genestealer patriarch to her to a Scenic base and never use it in a game, it doesn't matter.
So yeah, like I think that's it is a big thing of like being able to avoid the for like I can't afford a Ferrari but I can afford the toys. I couldn't afford a lot of 13. Look at me now, exactly. Yeah, every time I go to like a home center, I look like, you know, I come across like picture frames and I think and I've got to do that cut away. Diorama that they do. Yeah. In the eight. Exactly. What. That's exactly what I use that. They've deep deep picture. Frames works really well.
Yep, now I think I've last thing I'm going to do one with, I've got some kale stew or third edition, cows towards, and Third Edition skeletons that I'll probably never use. I think I might do like a mini sort of diorama. Like you said, that's really got me inspired do that. I'll do those like a tutorial on the channel or something. They'll be fun to do interesting because a lot of the 1980s models paste directly Lee left or right?
Yeah. Yeah. So obviously because they were made perfectly flat and in one piece. Yeah. And then if you look at the 90s 1ub, they really don't, they they worked out that like what you're meant to do. These models is play Miniatures games with them. So they start thinking about ranking them up. Yeah. So like a lot of them face forward and hold a sword directly above their head. Hmm. But it will be interesting to see whether that works as well, in that kind of like that 2D
format. I mean if you had a yeah and if you look at like the Mike McVeigh sort of the early 90s ones that he did, so he does the the here, my hero quite something called Warhammer quest. One when they go down all the multiple levels and he's using a way deeper deeper kind of set frame, and they did a new one, the ones in the early eighties because I think you need to be able to turn those big chunky 90s models a little bit. They want to be at a sort of 45 degree angle.
Interest. I've never thought about that before. Yeah. Like 1980s was all about face agreed to face left or you face, right? And then in the 1990s is facing forwards and pointing and holding a sword above your head. Yeah, that would just bright those cutaway drowned or a, I mean, you know, that's quite an investment of time, but the end you can sort of hang it on the wall and look at it and pride, and it tells a story in itself. Yeah, yeah.
I really like that. So I think I would like that was a big thing with the Miniatures as well, they say. I'm like, I will make no bones about the fact that probably 4th 4th and 5th edition played way better than Third Edition. Didn't second edition 40K undoubtedly played a way better than Rogue Trader. We could sit down and play that game and it worked. And part of it was he worked at
the lahat. We should sell people units of models that are just like 10 guys that go together and there's that model on the table and they What are they hadn't kind of apart from the regiment's of renowned? Those kind of metal box sets, they hadn't work that out. You were buying like blister packs of models that didn't necessarily have all the same equipment on them and stuff like
that. He's by like random bags of Fighters or aux whatever, but it means that those 80 models with their kind of random, assortment of equipment. Look really great in these narrative settings. Like everybody looks like a little individual character, telling his own little sore. I think that A big appeal in. Yeah. Absolutely man. Yeah, no. I I still have a lot of love for the like that that era of wama with addition especially the artwork, the model. Yeah, yeah.
I've still got a lot of nostalgic love for that, even though I never played the game, I don't have any nostalgic feelings with the game at all. No models in the artwork, especially bring back a lot of good memories. It's the ideas Factory. It says it will certainly wasn't the rules Factory. Even, so he is definitely the, the moment of like, well, what about, you know, what about these four chaos Gods? What about these, like, what's the deal with these States, Marines?
What you know, what's the deal with this? Kind of like is technocratic cult and all that type of stuff is really, you know, really exciting that only think it probably a bit disappointing at times to get on the table or at least like disappointing if you don't want to do something with a with a GM controlling, everything and kind of muddling your way through, I don't even know if I'm that nostalgic. Or the rules stance. And I was going to touch on
something else too. I think, you know, we probably both great admirers of William King's work and what contributed to the GW law and developing a lot of the, the Army books fourth edition. And I think it sort of solidified, a lot of these ideas I had in 3rd Edition, especially, yeah, Anthology series of books. And then he, and then King, does it brought everything together and sort of created these, these factions and an army is within
Warhammer, which then carried. Ever since you know, they've, you know, he sort of set the template down I think for a lot of the law and GW. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I definitely. So I'm I'm in the, I mean the moment on the podcast I'm in the middle of doing the three original gut tract and Felix stories that appeared in those original and those are original anthologies and what you really Get from King, is that he is, somebody who has played this role playing game and has played this Miniatures getting.
So, he's got a really, really like good understanding of the setting both in terms of what it's meant to feel like, what combat is meant to feel like in this world and what the kind of stakes are of combat, but also the world can live like the world kind of beyond that and it's this funding. They should mention that I was reading this morning because I'm doing the Dump the world, which is the third one.
And there's this kind of character in terms up, who's called, Prince baliga, and he's like the keys be. Yeah. He's like this Prince who's kind of Excavating or they've kind of gone and tried to recapture Kara gate Peaks. This old dwarf hold and it's kind of gone quite badly. It's a, you know, it's a mind of Moria, it's done, you know, just once again, any kind of a lift and told him and I thought I'd just Google him.
See if Anything ever came up again and he was, he turns up as a model in a tradition, and he did there in the end times. And he appears for the first time as like a kind of back, not background, Carriage, but is up to The Supporting Cast character in the third, got reckon Felix book.
So like kings reach is absolutely absolutely massive up through these things and kind of getting a but at the same time I feel like those Those first three stories are really Melancholy and I've got a man of God began. This kind of like you really get the kind of futile - of trying to do anything in this war hammer setting. You know, like if you're a troll Slayer you have chosen your own Doom. You're never going to, you're never going to achieve anything in this type of.
And I feel like at the same time as he kind of goes on and create sort of this stuff, there would there is that It's almost like unexplored Avenues of his writing their that kind of like fell away in that in that Evolution process. But, you know, he did the other story. Have you ever read the story laughter of the dark Gods? No, sadly. I haven't made. No not so it's yours baby. It's a story of a chaos champion. Going through the process that set out in the realm of chaos books.
If you were to play the realm of chaos campaign, to become a demon Prince, oh, and you do these rules for you, like you get a mutation, you get a reward from chaos and sometimes the mutations were like got the God's punishing you and sometimes they're giving you like other stuff. Yeah. And King basically takes a game of that care. Like imagine to game of That and
turns it into a narrative. And I normally you till I like a guy just like narrative eating a game, he's played would be rubbish but Kings. Real gift is that he takes all of the rules and all of us take the kind of almost the mechanics of the game and turns it into this narrative thing and it's an absolute cracker of a story and like I would I would guess that like looking at that, that kind of explains what he ends up
doing those fourth. Books because I wonder if somebody looked at, hey, Eve in the studio doing it said probably the guy in line to do it anyway, but like here's a guy who knew how to take rules and turn them into setting. There was really, really evocative, which I guess is what those kind of battle descriptions in the in the in the Army books were all about, weren't they?
Yep. And I think you just like it's that thing I suppose that like the Warhammer game was in his bones It's in a way that it wasn't for some of these other authors. And that means sometimes other people do slightly more interesting out there things but he's definitely a guy who is like God a second, you know, I mean yeah, absolutely, my dear mmm. Well, he did famously play a game with Jervis Johnson in the fourth edition. Dwarf armies book playing playing. Who was it?
Again, he's playing a dwarf Army but it was owned by not him. It wasn't his army. He was against one of the artists that Games Workshop at the time and I'm really angry at myself for forgetting because he's such a brilliant guy because something about something about doing this. In the podcast, you like it shows and kids and so the background there. Yeah it was it was like it's a
thing. We let our I know so much about this, all of this information at my fingertips and then I wait, who did Published the second edition of what haven't been slides out of makes you realize how much Googling stuff before you before you before you can write anything down. How is it green? Ronan? There was a company that was just completely other company. The Run won't fantasy roleplay after hogshead and then they got taken over by black Industries and then they got shut down, I
should have remembered Oh yes. You know about them? Okay. Yeah, it sort of change hands quite a few times it did. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, it's thing I would like to toast to. I think like I think they part of it is quite a bit. Is always like, is this distracting from our main IP? If people if people are into war hammer, we want them to be buying and building. 3,000 Point
onwards. And I think I sometimes wonder that they got like two like slightly cagey about the computer games and slightly cagey about the role playing games because it's and that matter like the specialist games as well. Like you just want to be channeling people into buying and building huge collections miniatures. So I've taken us up that both in a pointless called back there. Yeah, that's alright. It's waning Windows thinking about the artist wanted.
Yeah but you are gave you time. He had a very famous dwarf Army for Third Edition, that are the blue and white one. Yeah. That's right. I remember that hard. Brilliant. Yeah, they were great. That kind of feudal feeling kinda guys. Yeah, I always knew that. Yeah. William was a bit of a dwarf player at heart, so, same thing. Yeah, he said, that's my big thing is and I'm going to talk about this on the podcast.
Most kind of the moment is he really gets the wharf psychology take as a really thinks about the idea that there are these. And I think this is, this is kind of inspired by Tolkien as well. There's an idea that like dwarves, there's elves were kind of like, quite alien creatures in that. What are they, what are their motivation? What are their dinner? They exist almost like another another plane. Then this humans and then there's dwarves who kind of have
human feelings. Feelings and desires only more so and I think he really kind of like develops that in a, in a, in a really interesting way. What if people never forgot shameful things that happened to them and you experience them just as intensely. Ten years later, he did the day they happened. What if your honor would so important to you and I think he you know he's got a really good sense of like who these these human-like but not quite human
creatures. Are And they could, they could carry that burden for like, over 300 years because they're Liars, me, don't they don't die. Yeah, that's it as well. Yeah, we're on live forever. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but yeah, you know, like as you as you mentioned about the other character survive until like a tradition will got Rick's survived until the age of Sigma. Yeah, crazy. It sounds like. Yeah. I think that's it. It's then it's also. It's the simple thing that he's got partly.
It's the idea of like, what if We paired and talking with Punk sensibilities. So I think that's a big part of what we'll have a race. It's this idea of like, some of these people will have mohawks. It's not just like a super serious can look like he's a Lord of the Rings artist Alan Lee or somebody like that where everything's kind of quite somber and the medieval. It's a blending of these medieval things and this kind of punk. I think that's kind of got trapped in a weird way with.
This is John Mohawk kind of sums that definitely most definitely. And yeah, I think I'll like Kev Adams for like Third Edition for one of the fantasy aux. Absolutely. And it was Punk, make everything about absolutely. Yeah, really yeah, really glad interesting. Like, yeah, those, those kind of like the Orcs are absolutely for the kind of the football. Hooligan voice is something.
I'm really interested in because when they come to write these Warhammer novels it's like wait are you gonna are they going to speak like that are they going to do that? And you can see these guys can have go I'm going to put an alchemist story than that. It can't be like a war hammer or curse going to sound pretty stupid so they can live like they all kind of like Veer back and they just like vague sort of
like talking so cold. Peen ask dudes and consequently, they don't feel like weirdly that whenever Orcs and goblins appear it, some of the least Warhammer is feeling. To these novels because they can't quite pair up that like what had been created in the setting with a kind of void. That's my leg Vibe of oats and goblins. And with these kind of like, genuinely, like perilous, Grim, Darkness stories are trying to tell ya.
I got that Center feeling with the Wolf Riders story, The use you just released recently on your podcast. It's sort of like a horse goblins. They seem like this overly threatening Menace but then they really didn't do much in There was no sort of, they didn't really, you know, have a place in the story. Yeah, nothing really. But that's something that I talk
about is that yeah. Like, like the big three have the stunned understand about Warhammer been that Third Edition. What I'm a fantasy world plating is, it was just kind of thrown together. There's loads of different ideas from all sorts of different places and you were selling this game. The people who presumably at either Cena, but seeing a picture of an old oak on the front of, like a right Regiment of renowned box and buy, or you would played Dungeons and
Dragons, all you read talking. So, like an auction, all, you know, this is an awkward. Do you like, what's too kind of was to have to explore in that and they kind of consequently, nobody's really thought about like, where do they come from? How they created by chaos and they created by, you know, later on becomes this kind of like that.
Fungoid creatures kind of thing but they just like back in those days that you just kind of like you could sketch things in enough for people to get a vague sense of what's going on. And then you are here, you are folks.
So yeah and it which is fine because you know, on the table top it makes absolute sense and all of those 80s like but the man Mangler and all of that type of stuff really gives you a sense of what they were like visually and the illustrations in Warhammer armies, like, brilliant, instantly know what? You're And it's a brilliant like Gary chalk art from that time as well. That can really captures it.
But if you're trying to kind of explain what their life cycle is, or the ricotta like, you know, what's their social structure, or whatever, doesn't make any sense at all. That's it. Well, those has been an absolute pleasure tool. Yeah, thank you very much. It's been really great to talk to you really, really glad to be
out there. Stone, thank you very much, my pleasure, and I we should get you back on to do your first white dwarf at some point if you have time in the Future because of love to explore your first one off. When you pick that up, that'd be awesome. Yeah, love to if anybody hasn't listened to the old Hammer Fiction, podcast, please do that. I'll leave a link in the show notes. You have to listen to it, I thoroughly enjoy it. And I think, Louis on a really good thing.
He's got, he's got, the voice has got the passion for telling these old stories and it's being broadcast to a whole new audience and they can learn all about. The, the old Hammer ways of Guam, which is great. So Lewis, thanks again. And I can We'll look into doing something with the fourth edition stuff at some point as well. And when yeah, my dad be fantastic makeup, and that's just that. That's the thing. I've been dreaming about this and hoping someone would actually do it.
I couldn't do it because I've got a horrible Aussie accent, might not only ruin it, but you've got, yeah, yeah, we need to Someone Like, You Louis to get to pick up this project made and run with it. And I think it's going. Yeah, absolutely. I've been yeah, I've been thinking about that and there's a whole load of like it.
There's a brilliant story in the first when they It's the Eldar rules in 127 worked with 127, whether it's like Eldar versus Selena. She cultists and it's just like, to page of what do of story, but it would make a great little snippet. So, maybe we'll look into that into the into the future as well. But looking for the next one, I can't wait. So thanks one dude, Brian. Thanks very much. Take it easy. Take it. Have a good day. Take care.
Hey guys, this is Chris Snyder. The not the guy who talks about remote gaming, a long time. Yes. And I'm back to give you an update on what I've been playing in the world of remote gaming within the crown of command Discord. Recently, I was talking to my friend clam in the paint and chat and somehow the topic of Man O'War came up. He said he had never played it and I offered to host the remote game for him.
So he accepted and he must have been excited about it because in that week he went out and bought his own copy which is kind of cool. So we set up a game and it was he was playing the empire. Fire. I was playing the burtoni ins. And the game. Oh, I got off to a normal start. We moved our fleets towards each other and then in the second turn, things got bad. For the Empire. The Empire wizard failed to cast the spell, the plutonium wizard. I just thought I'll try this
volcano spell. It needs to 62 to go off. And of course, I voted six and then another R6. So that was three fire strikes against his great ship, two of them, get the same location and since there's no saving throw that was an immediate critical hit and of course on a critical hit chart another six. So that's three below the waterline damage on his great ship right off the bat. Again, my Galleon swooped in and get a barrage of broadsides.
Got lucky again and sunk his great ship along with his Admiral and Wizard and turn to. So that was pretty tough to come back from. He did end up taking out some, some of my ships, the Buccaneers. And then I think, of course there, But at the end of the game, it was it was pretty clear that the empire were not having a good day. So we played an immediate rematch this time, he got his revenge because on his second term, he positioned, his great ship.
So it was with with the wind, which gave him a bonus to movement. Plus he had a streamlined home, man and work hard one of the great ship and that gave him just enough movement to Sail. Straight Ahead, come in contact with my galleon. From the front so I had no cannons to defend him off and with his massive five companies of crew. He was able to take out all the crew of my galleon. And Scuttle it right then and there. So that was that was quite a
turnaround. I did manage to bring some of my corsairs to bear and in the last round I guess I'm lucky shots and was able to take out his great ship as well, but that was it that was it we were both really good games. You know, some unfortunate events for both of us but We were able to kind of you know, come back and still make it, make it close in both games toward the end. So yeah, I got pretty excited about playing that made a war
game. Again, thanks to Clem I'm going to be hosting Manowar at an upcoming game convention. So that gave me some practice, you know, and helped me really iron out some of the Kinks ahead in the rules. Now, on a side note, I am interested in the possibility of playing a remote campaign so I can get some some other guys who are interested and we can coordinate.
Some schedules. If you kind of find a play a number of different man of war games and Link them together with the experience system that's in the back of the Manowar book. So if you have any interest in that you don't have to have anything because I haven't I think enough bleach to manage five players or if you have a number of fleets and you would it be interested in hosting joining along with that? You know, let's get in touch when we can, we can work something out.
Okay. So that was man of war. That was just yesterday, actually. So again have a lot of fun with that. A week before that, I had tried to play a game of neck ramudu, with my friend, Andreas wasn't sure if we were going to be able to get the timing do it. He was running a little late, so I set up the game and while I was waiting for him, I ran through Kind of a sample game myself just to see how things would work. Unfortunately, he was a little
busy, so it wasn't able to play. But while he was packing for another game event, he was kind of in the background and I was playing out the game, myself kind of narrating what was happening and I discovered, you know, pretty early on there that I'm going to have to rethink how I do the camera using the train
that I have. I just have too much dense terrain with a lot of a lot of buildings that you can go in and under and it's pretty difficult to see with the camera from a, you know, pulled back from a higher View and if you want to zoom in and see some of the action, you kind of lose track of exactly what's happening in the overall picture. So, I think I'm going to have to to condense my Troy in a little bit. Make it not so, not so many nooks and crannies that you can get into.
In fact, as I was playing in person, I lost track some of my
own models. And I was like, standing right next to them because they're, you know, they're hiding under under rooms are under under different things, but one of the highlights of the game that I thought was kind of fun, we had called or versus du Lac. And there was a couple delight gangers and the Jew and they were in a really good firing position behind a barricade fending off, any kind of called or advance of my Corridor, leader was able to sneak under
some buildings and come out through a side door and charged that the live ganger. And of course, the leader has a chain sword and auto pistol. So, he was able to get some extra and actually Dice and made quick work of that ganger and then able to follow follow up move into the tube and it looks like the jewel is really in trouble, but then on the du Lac turn The called or leader he had two dice. Both of them came up ones and that Juve was able to roll a
five. And even though the code or a ganger made him carry that role, he got a six. So it was even worse and that scared little Jew was able to fend off and actually take out the color of ganger, which resulted in a bottle test. So that was kind of fun to see, you know, an unlikely. Like that. but, you know, even if you trouble to play another neck, remove the gang, once I've sorted out my terrain and made it, not so dense, Okay.
So prior to that in the week before that, we've been continuing on with our Warhammer Quest campaign. They were playing. There's a myself and three others and we're having a lot of fun with that. I think we're in our fourth or fifth Quest at this point. We have compiled enough gold for all of us to train up to level 2. But unfortunately we haven't been able to find a proper settlement to find that training. It seems like every time we finish an adventure and and go to travel somewhere.
Some weird event comes up but we get lost or find a bad MAP or something and end up in these tiny villages. And if anybody if you know anything about they Warhammer Quest these these Villages and towns. That's where some wacky things can happen. So just to give an idea of some of the things that have been happening to my wizard. The first Village that we were at, I was approached by a traitor in all door who is starting a new company and he sold me some stock.
So now every time I go to a settlement, I have to roll the see My stock is doing so far. I've been doing a little better than breaking even. I did somebody off of that, but I know that any if I ever was six a windfall could happen, and I can really, you know, Bank some some good money off of that, but if it's a warm my stock is worthless because the company goes bankrupt, and I'm going to lose some money so so far so good with that. That's kind of fun little thing
to happen. The next door to went to, I found a stray dog. So, now I have this dog following me around. And unfortunately, he's an expensive dog, because he's doubling my living expenses every time I go to town and I can't get rid of this guy because if I do, the townspeople are going to see that is animal cruelty and we'll just run me right down to town. So, So, yeah, that's kind of fun. The last time we played we did manage to get to account.
So we have enough that go, like I said we got some training or up to level 2 and I spent a couple days in that town and the first day, I was accosted by someone who apparently I had insulted and challenge me to a duel and I could have Used, but I really needed to do more things in town. So I stayed it was a little risky. I could have died, but I was able to best that guy in a duel and actually stole his purse. So I cut some extra money off of
that, which was cool. And then the next day there was a case of mistaken identity and some brothers and they accused me of dishonoring their sister. And they were going to force me to marry her. The next day. And since I didn't have anything else to do in town, I just kind of snuck out of town in a voided that and I think it's kind of funny in the, in the text of that event in the book. It says you can sneak out of town in the night or stay for the next day and get married dot dot dot.
And it never actually explains what happens if you get married in or him request, but We think it's kind of an inside joke that if you get married, it's game over for you. Okay, so, that's what's been going on with me. Like I said, Warhammer Quest and a sample game, in extra Buddha Manowar, I'm hoping to get another game of space all again
soon. I really enjoy playing that, so, I'll see, if I could talk somebody into playing another game, if you're interested in playing the remote games, you don't have to do with me. You can Play with anybody and let us know how things are going. I think it's really exciting to see people playing games not just painting integers although we love doing that too. So alright well get out there and get gaming I'll see you.