Geoff from Oakbound Studios

Okay. So I'm joined here by with Jeff from Oak bound Studios. Jeff hegeman. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Thank you again for coming onto the crank command and I sort of found out about you through your whip, your YouTube channel. I think it just popped up in my feed one day or through the Facebook or something like that and it sort of mentioned old Hammer. I said, oh yeah, I'm definitely going to look at that because I've been searching and scouring the internet or anything related

to Old Hammer, anything back to those Glory Days. 80's and 90's and I was very pleased to find your channel and you had a lot of content related to bring out your lab or your personal projects and that kind of thing during covid. So, thanks again for coming on. And please tell us about yourself and how you got into the hobby moon has an interesting one, isn't it? Because I guess the, the old Hammer thing was is very much an online phenomenon its people finding each other and hooking up.

So I first time round got into the hobby Be in, I think 1991. My parents bought me a copy of the he requests which would have been the second iteration of P request back then. And that just certainly on the slippery slope of collecting Miniatures and painting miniatures for and then got into what Hammer fancy around the time that not s 4th edition was out, but we didn't my mates. And I lived in Village quite a long way away from any sort of official Games Workshop.

We had a toy shop in a village about 20 minutes drive away. That was our closest source of any kind of gaming, material, or materials, or paints, or anything like that. So we were making do with very much. What was around us and one of my friends had inherited, a third edition rulebook from one of his friends.

So although it was it was the time for With additional was out, we were mainly playing a very, very simplified version of the Third Edition rules with whatever mixer figures we could get. So I had a principally, an undead Army, I think based made out of the Plastics from heroquest and revenge of the which Lord and mixed in with a few boxes of the skeleton Warriors. But then I had dark elf, allies and Chaos, dwarf allies and

chaos. Moria allies and all kinds of things, just to make it up to a reasonable size Force. So that, that sort of element of mixing and matching different creature types. Different races. Different armies together has always been part of my kind of gaming DNA. I don't like to too prescriptive

an army list. It's it's all about sort of the flavor and the character of the army to me and the figures that you put into it. Elect that regardless of whether a list says, it's legal or not, you find a way to play it and you, you play around the story that you've built around your army but I really, I sort of fell out of that of the gaming scene when with a VIN vout about 2001-2002. I think something like that more time was just coming in.

I remember more time being the last sort of Games. Workshop thing that I was really quite excited about And then, you know, hit needs teenage years and decided that I'd grown out of all of that playing with toy soldiers. And it took me another decade or so, to get back into playing with toy soldiers, who I moved up to Bristol after University, I had some friends who were still going with it and started sort of rebuilding my collection from there. Really? And that's that's when I

discovered the old Hammer scene. And at that time, everything was very much blog based. So there were sort of a dozen people who were blogging about projects with figures from the 80s figures from the 90s, playing the scenarios from first second third edition and putting it up on their blogs and then the old hammer for and got going which was kind of a collection of those bloggers posting to their blogs but also developing feet charting the progress of their armies.

And these things they were working on and then that expanded to bring out your legs being a thing. I think it's we approaching not sure if we're approaching the 10th anniversary, I can't remember quite when it started but it's been going quite a while now, just as a gathering of old cameras, coming together to play vintage, iterations of Games, Workshop, gains, and then everything kind of moved to Facebook Facebook, sort of took everything over.

I'm so the blogs in the forums are still going, but they're a bit. They're a bit depleted. And as you say, it's quite it, Facebook's. It's alright. You can find old Hammer contents on Facebook, but it's got a bit diluted. I think speaking as a bit of a purist. It's become a bit over. This is a no longer Games Workshop, officially supported product. Therefore it's old Hammer, it's been discontinued.

So that kind of line of Of old Hammer being sort of up to about 95 and then middle Hammer coming in and covering 4th and 5th edition. That's all got got a little bit blurred, but the Forum still going still going through and I know there are a few people who are quite dedicated at bringing the Facebook group back to the old Miniatures. But the availability of those Miniatures has has got a bit weird now because when I started collecting a And there wasn't

really much of a scene. There was a handful of people who were pickin up collections of Miniatures on eBay. And the prices were fairly reasonable. Whereas it now seems that it's become more of a dedicated collectors market and the prices of things have gone through the roof. So it's much harder now to get a an official Games Workshop Citadel old Hammer Army. So the move I think now is very much pushing towards ranges the still in production from other manufacturers.

So we'll terms of armies are still going Ralph path or Legacy has just started up with some of the old brown path of figures. Rather party Europe is still going, still stopping some of those rangers. Black. Tree design has the Harlequin ranges Brigade, gains has the quelle source range. Forlorn hope has the grenadiers fancy laws range so there's a there's a whole host of lesser-known companies that are still going still producing the

same. Figures in the prices are much lower which was behind the, the series that I did earlier in the year, on looking at contemporary new companies and also old companies who are still going whose figures can be picked up at a fraction of the price of what you pay on eBay for a little miniature. And I don't, I don't think in many cases, the quality is particularly lower. I'm a big fan, especially of the grenadiers line.

The the Copperfield barbarians and Dark Elves, and the nickel and aux that they've got, I think they're they're every bit on a par quality-wise with what Games Workshop was putting out at the same period. And you can pick them up for under two pounds and model which, you know, you can't sit at all now, Yeah, for sure. So that was that was kind of how I got into the got into the scene was just looking for people who were playing with the same toys that I was playing

with back in the early 90s. In fact, I'm probably I'm a little bit late age-wise to the scene because we were playing with addition, but it was well into the existence of fourth edition and the Miniatures that were in a regular Games Workshop, where the fourth edition Miniatures that most people would now Badges and Little Hammer Miniatures.

So, although I used to, like, looking through the mail order catalogs and the pages of the addition, rule book and looking at the older figures, and I think particularly, because they had a more of a muted painting style to them other than the very bright primary colors of 4th and 5th edition, I think that was part of what attracted me to the older figures.

But also the I've only sort of recently realized talking to people like Tony, Auckland and Brian Ansel, who were around the scene at the time that the the style of figure design did have a very marked shift between the third and fourth edition periods. When Brian left the company because the earlier, the earlier, iterations of system and it's just certainly the priest thought of Miniatures.

They were very concerned with trying to break this very static line that you get when you've got a two-part mold that you're trying to cast a metal figure from, they were trying to kind of go for Diane Dynamic diagonals and poses that that gave a sense of movement to the figure rather than the kind of

flat. I'm holding things like this pose that, that then I think when Brian left the company, they sort of migrated a bit back into that and some of the middle, Hammer figures out particularly I'm thinking like the Gary morally zombies, they're all, they're all this and it's very, it's very flat. And so I think I think that sort of also changed the visuals, quite a lot of them and led me to kind of prefer the the earlier stuff.

Although now, of course, I have a fondness for those things because they were the things that were actually around when I was collecting. So they were the figures that I was picking up. Just as that was, what was for sale. I wish I'd taken more. Advantage of mail-order. But if I had taken advantage of my Lord, I would have given all of that stuff away, like it did with the rest of my collection in the early thousands in any case. So I wouldn't have it now.

Anyway, Talk about having no regrets. My one regret was being very generous and giving all of my Miniatures away to a friend of a friend of a friend who was just getting into the Hobby and then having to re buy everything at inflated prices afterwards but never mind. We did a wonderful service. It may be somebody there. Hopefully, they're still in the hobby, who knows? Yeah, I don't know. Unfortunately, lost contact.

I would have liked to have got in touch and say so there's things that are gay, you still want them because if you don't know how them back that this there are there is attic or something now. Yeah, absolutely moldering away somewhere. You're digging Mountain about 20 years on these things. I don't think I'd want to be reminded of the paint jobs on them though. Is that because again the one of the problems are not having a hobby shop nearby was not being able to get access to the paint

supplies. Like now we can get online and order stuff and there's hundreds of companies, making lots of different paints and specialist products for the hobby scene and we didn't have any of that. So my, my source of paints was the the local surplus stores in the village that have a supply of car body, paints, and second end-of-line, humbrol, and animals, and And that's what I was using.

And my ability with animals was was not as good as someone like, you know, Fraser gray, who was painting, incredible things with enamels. And John Blanche, do incredible things with animals, but they were artists and they knew what they were doing. And I was a eight-year-old boy who had no idea what he was doing, but other than that car body filler, Yep. This lovely dinner so it's good memories. Yeah, that's true.

You know and I think the more you talk about people with about that, from that error and then we got into the Hobby and it might be, maybe the same case for you. But for me, it was like a very isolated experience where there's only myself. I had absolutely no idea how to paint Miniatures, had an undercoat them, nothing I do. I need to Prime the ring like that and It was only the request, you know, send away, you'll get it.

You'll get like a painting, that login, and sorry, a painting guide in the catalog and that was kind of like the first starting point, you know, might mcveigh's you know step by steps. Yeah, yeah. And that I got into in 95. I started collecting white dwarf and that was that was absolutely a game changer because suddenly you've got access to articles, You're making scenery and making a painting things that you haven't gotten into that.

You can't go to Google and Google how to do all of these things. And the only examples that you've got to those that are in the magazine. So you can look at the photos and you can read the articles and sort of try and work out how they did it and then find your blue Peter stash of scrap materials and try and make do what you can with those. It's yeah, very, very different

world. The more you kind of come to think about it. Absolutely have access to a lot of a lot of resources but I think that encouraged the kind of free fall creativity as well. I think if certainly looking at The, the scenery projects of people who got into gaming in those very early stages, and everything is made out of yoga Cotton's and Lou roles and Pringles tubes, and that kind of

thing. It has it has that very kind of Creative Edge and it may not be as naturalistic as realistic as someone who's been in bought tabletop World resin and painted

it impeccably with an airbrush. And but it it has that kind of degree of imagination that I think is quite is quite Out to match when you have very bespoke kits at your, at your disposal all the time, and I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's related to. Sort of development in culture but I work in a university with product design and architecture students and maybe I'm just Rose tinting how kind of problem

solving and creative. I was as as somebody that age but just that ability to look at something in, imagine it being something else and work your way towards that seems to be something that's a bit lacking in the students that I see coming through. Draupadi. They don't, they don't sort of have that. Here's where I am. Here's where I need to get to. Let's put the steps together process, which I definitely think that wargaming and model making and playing with Lego at

an early age. Taught me to you to go through that process. I think it was a it was a very good learning experience in terms of creative problem solving and trying to trying to make something good out of what. You've got to hand. It is noticeable in the, in the

white dwarf Pages, as well. You can, you can see the point from which Games Workshop. Moved from encouraging people to make their own terrain and their own gaming boards to when they started selling their own mats and modular boards and plastic terrain, kits. Everything. Suddenly becomes very formulaic because all of your battlefields. Look the same. We went out to Warhammer World in July of this year when bring

out your levels was phone. So some of us did that did a bit of a bootleg boil tour of the of the north Midlands and we stopped in on what Hammer world and might sort of expectation from seeing pictures of what Hammer World previously was. These great Landscapes tables. Everything's intricately made really beautiful tables and we went in and everything. Every table was exactly the same as the neoprene play mat with the same set of plastic terrain painted to a moderate standard

on each. And I don't know if that's just because covid restrictions, they need to be able to wipe everything down after people have left or whether that just sort of reflects the The uniformity of the way that things are have been going in the mainstream gaming scene, that everyone's everyone's table.

Now looks pretty much the same. You don't see those those unique constructions, but I think that's also fueled quite a big Kickback. When you look at all of the stuff that the ink 28 scene and the turnip 28 scene, that's that's growing up which is more about sort of personal expression and taking those plastic kits and making them completely unique and kit bashing if you like. But also adding lots of different things together which

is a way of sort of saying. Okay we've got we've got this good high-level starting point now but let's not just build back yet. As it is. Let's play with it and do something fun with it, which I think that's a good thing. I think there's something very old Hammer spirited about those those movements that that don't just sort of following List from the book with a kit that you bought off the shelf following the paint Scheme, that's on the

box art. It's all about you're putting your own sort of personal taken your own personal expression in your own story into the into the hobby. Yeah, I totally agree with it, even though I must say, I hope the opposite mind. All right, I'll go, I like everything. Yeah, I've coming, I've come in

from the fourth edition. I have one winner from 3rd Edition but then I really got into the Hobby and fourth edition, and I love to having everything sort of spoon-fed to me. Like, you know, these are the models. This is the game. These are the color schemes. These are the armies. And, you know, rain building was a lovely aspect of that because I think Ava and wild was like, the the And back then in the studio and he did some wonderful terrain.

I think there's the best terrain ever made in the studio. I think you know he and it was a Dave Andrews and use Hill who of course designed the plastic gets when they started doing the rank is Dave. Andrews was big in the design of those So, his style very much shaped the look of the Warhammer world of that time, I think. Yeah. And it's a lovely style. I like it a lot. And it's ready, crying. Yeah, that was a the East.

They used to have templates for things like bunkers and townhouses and things like that in in white. Also, if you wanted to replicate those things that you saw in the photos as they were quite often, there would be a template for doing that or they walk you through how to do it. So you could do that. So how was the experience said to bring out your lead this year, man?

It was, it was a bit of a strange one. there were much fewer people around than usual, but that's as a bit of an introvert, that's not necessarily a bad thing. As long as I get to meet friends from the scene and play some games, I don't I don't mind how many people there are, there it means I get to talk to more people if there are fewer people there but it was also it's usually in July and it had moved to October and the weather in October and in July in the UK is

not typically the same. So whilst in July, It's fine to have everything sort of outdoors in a big Marquee when you're doing that in October, it's pretty cold. And I went up with a bit of a cold and came back with a full purse, cold and sitting in there, sitting in the stone Carriage Court with all the doors open all week and it was,

it was fun. I think partly my enjoyment of it was was partly tarnished by having a cold and partly Punished by just, I don't know, being a bit, a bit wary, a bit cautious about covid, still being around and lots of people that didn't know, they're, you know how seriously they were taking it, what precautions they were taking. And I think, I think I would be absolutely fine if we weren't sort of trying to take care of my 93 year old father-in-law.

Being concerned for his health. I would probably be a lot less concerned for my health but long covid is a thing and I don't want that. So I know there are a couple of people in The Gaming Community who've who've got it or had it. And some of them are actually doing regular sort of updates on living with long covid, which is a has been a very interesting thing to look at and it's been affecting them really badly.

Lee. So definitely not something to just sort of blow off as not important, but I was, I was masked up for the for the experience and came away. Although I had a cold, I came away without covid, so that was good. It was nice to hook up with people that I hadn't seen for I will 18 months, two years,

almost. So, that was nice and play some games in person with people, we've been trying to do some online, roleplay, things during lockdown but it didn't, it didn't really work particularly well. It's better. Let's do those things face to face it. Yeah, yes. I was very impressed with your, he request board that you showed in. I think the latest video you had on YouTube about the bring out your lead event and is that a 3D

printed board? Now it's a laser cut board so it's just I actually did the file for it. Seven or eight years ago, something like that. And it's just the high res scan of the original board changed into black and white played around with a with the contrast a little bit. I added another row of squares around the outside. So you put a thicker thicker Corridor for bigger, fights around the outside and then that was engraved onto some sheets of MDF.

When the laser cutter and actually, it was quite, it was quite quick to paint up. I did one where, when I did first is the file about seven years ago. But I did one because I wanted a board to match the advanced heroquest tiles. And I'm not quite sure why, because I don't, I don't really like the advanced, he requests tiles as much. They're a bit. They look like they've been a bit kind of colored in with crayons, rather than the very painted look of the of the

original. With which I, I really like that kind of like oil paint fairly naturalistic looking artwork is I'm a big fan of so. So I decided to do another version of it with painted to kind of match the original board but actually just blocked it in. And dry brush it and washed it with a critics and it came up. Pick him up quite nicely. Good night. Yeah, yeah.

Now and then of course, I had to make a big decorative, surround to go around it but had all of the creatures stats and spaces for the cards and things to go in it, just to make it a bit more of a display Keys. Yeah, I do have a big big soft spot for hero Quest is the thing that got me into the hobby. It's it's not the greatest game system ever designed, no matter what people will tell you that sir, Nostalgia talking.

But what I, what I do like about it is the Simplicity of it that you've got very few rules, people can pick it up in five minutes because it's very, very straightforward. But because it's so simple, if you're prepared to be a bit creative with writing new rules for it and developing it you can take it in any direction the or game group wants to go. So a few years back I did quite a long campaign with some friends. Working through all of the Quest

books. And we put in a big experience point system and new equipment tables and skills lists. And we put in spirit coins. So that if people started acting in a way that was anything. Other than lawful Goods, they started to lose Spirit points because I was playing with the group of people who are very much into backstabbing each other, and Stealing the treasure for themselves.

So it was a, it was a way of kind of dividing the group into factions and then giving them different capabilities reflecting those. So you can, you can take it off and quickly and quite crazy directions because the core Basics are so simple. There's not, there's not a lot to go wrong with it. Which is one thing that I really like, I'm not a fan of those very prescriptive games.

We played descent the other. The app based dungeon crawling game a few years back and just because it everything's what you've got cards to do and what you've got abilities to do. There is sort of removes that kind of Pass.

No, I want to do this. Everything's very, very prescribed and very rigid and that's if you're going to play a semi role-playing game, I like to play up the roleplay elements rather than just making a ball game with that as the theme, that say well, but I think you can do that with heroquest. I think if you, if you have a creative GM and maybe that's maybe that's the big thing that if you're playing with an app,

you don't have that. Ability to respond to what the players want to do. You have to be fairly prescriptive because everything needs to have a an algorithm behind it over here. Of course, because it was the it was the Catalyst for me getting into the whole miniature painting and War gaming hobby later on. But what did you think of Hasbro's latest Kickstarter there? I haven't seen. I haven't seen much of the figures appear. Because I think he's only just shipped, hasn't it?

So I've seen a couple of people post pictures of it. I was not a fan of the artwork that they chose. I can see why they've done it because it's obviously styles of artwork have moved on in the game's fear but I just think replacing some beautiful, Leathers Edwards painted art work with some really A fairly crude digital artwork is is a terrible sacrilege, especially when they've preserved the look of the cards, and the board fairly Faithfully.

Oh, and don't really that kind of jobs to me from what I've seen at the Miniatures. They're pretty underwhelming. They're kind of flexible plastic. Not much detail, but who knows? We might see when people start painting them, but actually, there's quite a lot of detail there. There's not showing up in the In the photographs, my main beef with them. I think, is that the, the heroquest Plastics, as I understand them? Yes, they were early Plastics.

Yes, they were fairly rudimentary in their plastic technology, but as a new painter, painting with the style of painting, that was was prominent during the late 80s and 90s where you're, you're painting a base color, then your wash, Sing it, then you're highlighting it. They work really well because they've got very pronounced details and not too much sort of fiddly baggage and things. They're, they're all of them are sort of three or four colors

will get you, a figure painted. And I think as, as figures designed to get somebody into the figure painting hobby, they're actually very well thought-out and fairly Dynamic for the poses that were possible at the time. That's my big disappointment with the Hasbro figures now is that I feel like they look less Dynamic than the, the very limited plastic Technologies of the late 80s.

So yeah, I'm not sure what the who they've got to do their their figure designs but I yeah, yeah, a bit underwhelmed but then it's quite easy to get hold of good figures. There are plenty of places who are selling good figures in whatever style you want to. I don't feel like Replacing those would be a big deal. The intention with heroquest. When it first came out was that people would supplement that

with buying system miniatures. So that there's a well-established tradition of replacing your Miniatures with, with other ones. But yeah, I think, I think if I it's difficult, isn't it? Because the price of an original hero Quest is gone through the roof? I remember the times when I was picking up copies of he requests for 99p from a jumble sale because it was just it was everywhere and it's good for favor. So I had three or four boxes at one point that again.

I Stupidly gave away, and then I wanted to Play It Again. The I think I looked for ages for a copy that was under 50 Quid and was was really struggling. And I think I paid 45 in the end for my copy, which for the amount of play that it's got compared to other games. I bought was actually a fairly good deal, but that, that seemed ridiculously expensive for what it was at the time. Now, you're looking, what, 80 90 100 pounds for a second reason.

Really good condition. It's just insane, and it's not, it's not worth that. So if I didn't have, if I didn't have a vintage copy, I think I would probably be looking at picking up the new one, just to get the board and the cards, and the bids and didn't to be able to play it. But I also think with with resources, like y'all the in, you can get all of that stuff. There's some people doing some beautiful things with printed and bound Rule books and printed

cards, and custom cards. And I think you could probably do most of that set by yourself fairly easily for the same, if not, less than the price of buying a house, bro, one. So yes, it would be more effort. I guess that's the that's the bottom line, isn't it? You can, you can buy this thing in a box and it's good to go or you can spend a few months making your own if you've got the tools and the resources, the the desire to do. So. But That's the that's the joy. The hobby, isn't it?

Both things exist. You can. You can do either. I do remember that the gentleman Voris and he goes by online that designed an entire set of a new painted him because I saw your yeah you're photographing again valuable. That was a horrific. The expensive set of figure. Yes I didn't buy the best wife. Yeah I'm not gonna lie for such a long time.

You know what? I'm gonna really regret it if I don't because I love it so much but yeah but yeah they were frightening me. And then, I don't know, quite what went wrong with that, because they there was a sort of second set, that was an additional chaos Warrior, and it had a familiar in it, and that sort of disappeared. I think maybe a few people got copies, but I'm not even I'm not sure if it got legally shut down, or something before it

before, it came to fruition. But yes, they're, they're, they're beautiful. I have yet to use them in a game because I built a diorama of them but but you can get very similar figures to 3D print. Now obviously they're not handmade. So buy my book, that makes them not as beautiful as as the handmade ones, but 3D printing is, is the new thing that's going to sink small Miniatures businesses. So you can buy yourself a set from or not even buy them, I think.

Just download them for free from thingiverse or similar and print them out and you can have your own set of box are heroquest figures. And I think a lot of people will probably go that way that does seem to be the the technology of choice for a lot of Gamers use days. Yeah, if you can afford it, I mean, I don't I haven't got a 3D printer. I would like it for the certain bits of terrain elements that I would like for. Like, you know, I've seen that 40K second edition, I was making

some old buildings. Well having the like you know like oil barrels and Jerry cans and tires and that kind of stuff to make scatter terrain would be perfect for that.

I don't ever see myself printing out an entire fantasy army with them because I'm not much prefer the old original ones in the lead and Won't, you know, sufficiently adequate my, you know, if you care about them being in that it did, which I do because I like to feel some weight to what I'm picking up and moving around on the table top.

But the thing that a lot of people are worried about with the 3D printing technology because they mean the price of Prince is still high but it's coming down all the time. So they're going to be domestic technology before too much longer. Is this? Tanning thing that I've seen some people do it already, where they've scanned classic system Miniatures, and then put the STL

files up equals print. Well, technically that is IP theft and the old Hammer Community comes down very hard on re casters, but it's a slightly different technology as well, isn't it? And how do you police that you can police to a degree recasting? Because not everybody has Vulcan iser press and has been cast in

their shed. So you can identify the people who are producing, vast quantities of semi rare Miniatures and selling them over and over and over again and go, or do you know what I smell a bit of a rat here? Whereas, you know, if you're, if you're just sort of faceless Lee pudding, scans of something onto an online platforms, people's Download and print at home, you're never going to police that, but it's a completely different thing.

And it's I don't know. I'm not going to make a call as to whether it's okay without a production Miniatures or not but you know, as a small miniature producer myself. You wonder how long is it before somebody? Scans one of my figures and puts it up there for free for everyone to download. Yeah, yeah. That's all point because yeah, come, you're coming from this perspective of being an actual small business owner, you have your own miniature line and again, game systems to support

those. Yes, that's, that's really good perspective because I admittedly I've been looking at 3D printing options for this, getting things like, arms and backpacks, and stuff for like four plastic models that are very, very difficult to find. Yeah, they're for those kind of things and people just helping me out and say, yeah, mate, I can print that out for you. You know, send me five bucks and I'll send it to you, the kind of thing.

I think it's a different thing if somebody's sculpting, you know, not not an absolute reproduction, but something very similar and compatible because there's, there's a whole Market in compatible bits for Games, Workshop figures that they haven't been able to shut down. So that's been proved to be Within the bounds of legality and that's going to that's going to happen. But that's somebody sculpting it and then donating or selling their the files of their Scopes

which is is fine. It's when somebody scans something that they haven't made from scratch and put that up, then that becomes a bit more of a, of a problem. I mean I'm hoping that a I'm small enough that probably nobody It e is really going to want to reproduce my figures that way. My purse is I don't think our extortion it so hopefully people will just buy them. It will be much less effort than than printing them.

I'm probably cheaper than printing them as well but also that people will just be fairly decent about it and say okay there's a these are in production. Here's a small guy who's just trying to get some figures up. let's just support that if their fingers that I want, Yeah I did it. It's really nice. This remains to be remains to be seen what impact it's going to

have. But also I think I'm aiming at a market of people who like their fingers in lead so hmm you're not going to be 3D printing LED anytime soon. So that's no that's a bonus. Yeah, so for things, like like I say, lovely arms, that kind of stuff that's, that's sort of lost or you, you can go buy stuff from the second-hand Market that have no arms or backpacks or anything like that. Anyway, weapons, that kind of stuff. So, for that as a resource for us for a scan file, I think

that's really invaluable. But yeah, I'm totally totally against people scanning like in production Miniatures and flog him off at a profit. I mean, that's that's disgusting. If they're if they're wrong. If they're sort of something that's very, very rare to find. Or as you say, someone's built them from scratches. Some guy who did like a cow store for me, that was like really in the in the same same sort of style as the fourth edition ones which looks absolutely fantastic.

That that's really I love how you know some fans got the initiative to put that together and has the skill to make all those wonderful models and yeah I think that should be definitely. He encouraged so. Absolutely and I don't, I don't think it's the case that you can't have an old-school aesthetic.

With the new technology. I've seen plenty of people produce some very nice old school, looking 3D, sculpted figures, There's nothing inherent in the in the technique of sculpting, the means that something that you produce digitally has to look sort of flat and super smooth and lacking in texture. You can do all of those, all of those things digitally. It's just that a lot of companies that are currently in the market for three for digital

sculpting are going for that. Very smooth, clean look. As of as a particular aesthetic Choice. But yeah, that I've seen some people. Do some wonderful old school Scopes digitally and there are some people from, you know, who are, who are genuine old-school sculptors going into the, into the digital realm and Kev white from hassle-free is is just starting a patreon next year.

For some of the stuff that he's doing digitally, he's started sculpting digitally, and still still producing the wonderful things that he produces traditionally and analog techniques. But And yeah, is is digital stuff is looking phenomenal? Hmm. Let's go, d x. I do like care of stuff and fully. I don't actually have any of these models but I've always been a great admirer of the stuff he's done. I think he did an imperial

dwarf. About a year or two ago, I think he did one of them and I don't know if that was actually for sale or not, whether he's just doing it right out of faith. On a lot of things that he, he, he sort of Scopes. And somebody else looks after the business and I think he's all right, much more of a prolific, sculptor than the business is able to release all of the things. I think lots of things that he turns out and turns out and turns out just take quite a long time to get into into

production. But I don't have very much from hassle-free itself. I've got pretty much everything that he did for the old keltus range that Brigade models stop talking because that's that's one of my personal favorite kind of Celtic slon your themed Miniatures. Govert settlement sit very well with me. That's that's kind of my thing so, you know. But it seems to suit your style of game the outbound.

And the miniature range and the gaiety produce have that we recently things that we like, right? So, yeah. Yeah. No. I'm big into sort of not. I kind of describe it quite often as Celtic, but a lot of it isn't isn't Celtic. It sort of British is a mix of kind of Cornish and Anglo-Saxon, mythology, and things in there as well. But that that The folklore E, I guess much much less kind of high fantasy, more, kind of Mythic qualities to it is is what I'm big into.

Maybe maybe this is a good opportunity to sort of dive into the games. You do produce and give a bit of a background to what they're all about and and what people would expect, if they were to purchase one of your rule books and what kind of games they would be me. So, the big, the big game that we produce is again called the woods, which is a Dark Age

folklore fantasy setting. And so we'll set that plays in three mode so you can play it as a, as a role-playing game, you can pay as a skirmish game and you can play it as a battle game with big units and the, the premises that it's approximately Britain, but a an alternative form of Britain in a setting in which the PHA Empire has just collapsed the A Empire, which has settled in in the Mortal realm, which is the land, the land of traveler, which is where the game is set.

And the FAE have have come in and colonized, and brought servants from lots of other Realms with them. And they discovered the, the to offer who are the kind of human characters and the to offer our Very similar in their, in their kind of Outlook to the FAE and so the FAE who are sterile race decide to adopt the to offer as they're sort of surrogate children and nurture them and bring them up into civilization, but the FAE are not particularly nice creatures.

They're very vain, they're very arrogant, they're very conniving. and they're quite sadistic in many ways but they're also a bit squeamish so though they'd like to see pain inflicted on on other creatures they don't like to do it themselves and like to get their hands dirty so they so they have servants to do it for them and they discover that the the tawaf of the humans don't have any such qualms about Committing acts of violence themselves. They're quite happy to do it.

So the fake get a bit worried about this and decide that they may have made a mistake by revealing lots of secrets to the to Arthur and so they withdraw pretty much overnight they withdraw from the Mortal realm and leave the 12th juror who suddenly don't have any mentors around them and all of these folks from different Realms who the favor brought in as their servants and their slaves and their playthings.

And and they've all got to try and work out how they're going to, how they're going to live in this world together without the kind of unifying feature holding them together. So there are some some folk who hold the 12th a responsible for their imprisonment. Under the PHA, there are some who see them as victims of the FAE and the, the game set. Is this kind of Fallout from the departure of the Fabe Empire people trying to make their own their own space in the world.

And it plays its kind of Base setting as the Skirmish setting. So you create a war band from either, one of the creature types or you can have what's called a CD or a nun, CD warband where you're picking, CD being a kind of stance towards the face of the young CD creatures of the creatures, her a bit vindictive towards them. And the silly creatures of the creatures that have been largely on their side. So you can mix and match creature types.

On that basis. And it's a very objective based games at the start of each game, each side will pick what they're going to try and Achieve during the course of the game and it's perfectly possible for both sides to achieve their objectives and third few possible for both sides to fail but the the kind of crucial difference I think between this and a lot of other games is that it's entirely dice the system. So everything is Rooted in actions and the capabilities of

models. So you have a stat line which generates a sent a set of sort of secondary stats that are used in gameplay to determine whether your shots and successful, whether you're fighting attempts or successful. But also things like coercing other people's characters. So you can you can force people's models to do the things that you want them to do things like intimidating other models.

Characters as well as other big players characters interacting with with scenery that there's a lot more kind of I guess roleplay elements to it. It's it's a bit more flexible than, than a straight sort of shoot your enemy or fight your enemy and the objectives are very much based on interactions with the environment of the game.

Mmmmm. And there's a there's a campaign system that that ties into it so your warbands grow and develop over time and you can expand them and they can sustain injuries and they can gain territories and renowned things. Yeah, so that's that's that's the basic system. And that there are numerous numerous races in the world.

So we've got the, in addition to the the to author who were just humans, who we actually, we don't produce any figures for the to offer, because there are so many companies that do Dark Age humans are various types of thoughts. We'll just let them, well, let them take care of that side of things. But we've got there are Pixies, who are kind of short, Hedgehog looking. Has. We've got the Neary who are kind of One-Eyed. Marsh dwelling monsters, there

are some face till around. There are the knowns in the mountain and the Goblins in the mountains. There are the no locks who are a kind of rap man culture who live under the world in in big caverns. And there are kind of Mercantile people, they sell those Biology is through Subterranean character Caverns to trade with

other people. We've got over the spriggans who are kind of ogreish race but they are sort of constrained by only being out during the dark because during daylight they're tiny little diminutive creatures so that there's that sort of if you're playing with them and the yellow kind of environmental elements as to what the weather's doing. And you know, when it's going to get dark are quite important.

There's the booker who are kind of Fishman people who are the enemies of the no locks and there again, they're constrained time wise because they can only be out of water for so long. So they've got to achieve their objective get in there. Get out. Do what you need to do. Yeah. So it's quite it's quite a varied and diverse diverse setting, but it's all rooted. In. Sort of folklore of the British Isles. There's a bit a bit of

Scandinavian stuff in there. There's a lot of Germanic stuff in there but it's mostly mostly British Isles mythology based All right, sounds wonderful. So people can go to the website to to look at these races in more detail. Yeah, absolutely. That's all, all the matches are up on the website and so it's like, bam, .co.uk. And you can check out the Facebook groups.

There's a Woods worldwide players, Circle, Facebook group, which is fairly active and of course, there's an outbound Facebook group I do. You a YouTube channel, do could use weekly and a lot of those videos I'm doing sort of more

hobby related things. I've done some some terrain making videos and some painting videos and at the moment we're running a series which is probably going to go on for several years as long as I carry on doing the channel That looking at comparing white dwarfs from a decade apart.

So there's a lot of just general hobby stuff on there, but I have also done, Videos on how to play the game videos on advice for building certain War bands and looking at where they come from, what the folklore is surrounding them. The decisions that were made for the design and sculpting of them said it's quite a mix. Quite an Eclectic mix based on what's going on. What I am in the mood to talk

about every week? Yeah, now I'm very much enjoyed the white dwarf Reflections on the, the decade, you know, before and And after so yeah, I really enjoyed that a lot. Yeah, that's a new Under that's I'm only 22 Episodes into that one, but I think I figured, I've got enough white dwarfs to do, decade apart for about seven years. So we'll see how long that series last with.

Our I do end up doing a monthly 147 years old things change, I'm imagining, things will change before I get to that point. another for mine, and And how does it, how does a sort of begin like you, you becoming a, you know, small business operator and developing your own game and that kind of thing out

of that. Also, not say aye, they the miniature side of it started because I wanted to make a familiar Army for 3rd Edition. I was looking for what's what's the most obscure Warhammer Army that I can possibly pick out and that that was it. Was my choice but there weren't many models ever available for that. So I started sculpting some of my own and put some pictures on the old Hammer forum. And a few people said, oh, I quite like some of those, can you get them cast up?

So I looked into it and discovered that it was not anything like as complicated or as expensive as I thought that it might possibly be so. So I did that and then that was followed by. A few more and it's just kind of got into this system where I was sculpting things that I wanted. But if I could get enough people interested to take copies of them, then the I could get them cast rather than just painting my skulls and it would end up being fairly cash neutral.

So I started off running out band very much as a way of just funding the hobby things that I wanted to be doing and and at the same time I was playing some neck.

Remember With some friends, big internet come under and it was I was kind of getting a bit frustrated that the game system wasn't allowing me to be as a guest role play as interactive with the environment as I wanted to be it was all sort of moving and shooting which is all very well but it got a little bit tiring after a while I wanted to be able to do some more interesting scenarios. So I started writing a rule set

for that. Which became the rule set for factious Waste which is also one of our bounds rulesets. It's the sort of post-apocalyptic version and then I saw I was produced it. I had this rule set for a like a Sci-Fi post-apocalyptic game and I had figures for kind of Celtic folklore setting and I was taking these round. Some people say it was, I'd say what game. Can I play these Miniatures with? And I said, well, you can play them with whatever whatever mean. She's getting, you one.

But people seem to be a bit confused that I was selling Miniatures without a game behind it. So I thought I should really, I should really put again to it. And so what I ended up doing was having quite a lot of conversations and Test games with friends who are big into. Ooh, they're sort of medieval and and Dark Age reenactment and history. And we took the post-apocalyptic ruleset and basically shook it up and made it work as a as a Dark Age. And in a dark age setting and

that became the woods. And that's now the kind of Prime Focus that's in its second edition after having quite a few revisions a couple of years ago. And that that seems to be where where people like to be and it certainly that's, that's my sort of my major interest. Although I do like to play the, the post-apocalyptic version and actually, that's Not a not a straight New Edition but that's getting a rulebook revision probably early next year and working on that at the moment.

So yeah, it really came from what what people were kind of asking asking to have done. And at the time, there wasn't a huge amount of kind of low fantasy semi-historical. Dark Age things around that, that incorporated, that kind of folklore aspect. There were things like coal tar. Sand are in that were based in Celtic mythology, but they were very much kind of standard Fantasy war games. Just put into that setting, whereas I wanted to do something. That was more folkloric rather

than battle Focus necessarily. And in fact, at the, the woods as a As a setting started out as a fairly long-winded board game were actually yes. It starts out as a fairly long-winded board game that I was just making. So all of the all of the background was written for that. But then I was talking to a chapter a convention probably about 9 or 10 years ago now, who was doing Kind of Indie role

play games. And he was writing a rule set for a for a Celtic fantasy role-playing game and asked, if I'd write the background for it. So that was, that was then developed from this. The Ballgame that I've been developing into the background setting for this role playing game which unfortunately, never materialized. So it then got co-opted into the background for For the words.

So it's it's been a bit of a kind of Saga getting getting it into getting it into production but it I think it hangs together for something that has has its origins in quite a lot of piecemeal areas. It's, it feels very cohesive all together, it feels like it fits together which is is nice. Wonderful and I can't walk. Let's bring the conversation back to the Miniatures in your own collection.

What what will be the But the centerpiece of your collection so far that you your those proudest collection you've painted, or the, you know, the miniature Beloved, the best or the most flashy. I have a full set of I have a full set of the advanced hero Quest Heroes. Oh yes. As soon as the metal prototypes different prototypes, yes, which is something that I'm quite quite that's did it to get hold of those. Jeff. Who did you have to pay?

This is this is interesting because the the first one that I got was the dwarf and that was actually a gift from Marcus Ansel Brian's son at Boyle one year, so I didn't cost me anything and then I did some sculpting for another guy in the old Hammer Community, who has some connections and a business

in finding rare figures. And so, we did a bit of an exchange and the other for the other three Heroes and the man-at-arms came my way as a result of that, So the only one that I have actually paid any money for is the scale, even though I felt like it was worth paying a bit of extra for him, just to complete the collection. I actually haven't got around to painting in yet, so, he's still do. But that's that's a part of my collection.

But I'm quite pleased with and then they're beautifully painted to mate. I must say not that. You can see it from here, but they're on. They're on the blog. If yeah, I see. On Twitter, you had like a head like a mock-up of a Navy metal page and you had those featured in there? Yeah. Very very honest. One of the guys on the old Hammer community, did a template for like creating a white dwarf, heavy metal page. So they look good in that context.

Yeah, I'm actually I was I had them up against the might montre painted figures in the cabinet Foundry. Yeah, my, the Wizards pretty close. I'm not going to claim to be at that. Vey level because obviously, I'm not, but color-wise the Wizards pretty close the others. The colors I took from the magazine and they're not quite as bright as the ones in the cabinet actually are, which is interesting.

I think that's, that's something that going up to Foundry, has shown me quite a bit that the, the figures that were in the magazines were not quite as D saturated. As I thought they were, they're actually much brighter, but because of the photography, from the era, they always they seemed a bit more. You stood in the, in the catalog. So that's been interesting. So I think those are, those are probably some of my favorite

things. I've also got a cabinet of combat cards Miniatures. I don't know if you've seen those, but one of my big long-standing project was to collect and paint. All of the table noids combat cards set. I think it took me about three years to collect all of the figures and then Another three years to get around to starting painted on them because I was quite intimidated and there are quite a few of them that are conversions or or basically, hold Kev Adams goats over the

top of the existing miniature. So, yeah, it took me. So, all in all it was probably about seven or eight year project from starting collecting and so getting them, the killing them all done, but they are all gone now and they've been out to play several times. So that I'm also quite quite pleased with those. Dragon that I need to get finished painting - yeah. Like I started again I started about four years ago and I need to get back to painting it.

In the meantime one of its wings has got a bit fatigued and snap so I need to pin it and then put it and put it back together. But that's that's a miniature that I did not ever expect to own because I don't despite how popular they were. They still seem to be very few of them around. Then the ones that are command quite high prices.

So actually, the dragon that's in the outbound range, was very much sculpted as my, my wanting to have a great spine dragon and not not getting a great spine Dragon. So doing my own breaks playing dragon and about. And I'm um, after the castings of that coming back, I was I was contacted by someone who was selling a spine dragon that a very good Price. So so I did in fact, pick up a great spine Dragon to go with it. Yeah. No, that's fine. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

I was going to say, if people want to see a lot of this stuff, you they can see or the YouTube channel, because I'm pretty sure I saw that combat card. You know, you get you get your Miniatures really nicely, displayed don't, you know, people who can't see the video, but they could really nicely displayed in these little like, printer draw cabinets on your wall which are really nice. I like that. I like to do the same. Actually, I think it's a

wonderful idea. Yeah. But and the combat Pilots ones are in In a like a frame that I thought I made myself for them but yeah, I've got like a big dresser unit on one wall. That's that's quite full of I always worried that I'm gonna hear this, massive crash above my head one night and everybody I'm off the wall. Yeah, there's so many screws in this. I was just just terrified. It was all going to end up on the floor. So it's screwed and wall plugs

in every available. Hope we never move house because it's going to be an absolutely By getting this off for America measurement. Yeah, don't don't move to Japan because it's probably the worst country, but doing anything like that. In fact, now that I think about it, I will definitely not be doing that my cabinets. Well, and truly rooted to the ground. He it's so bloody heavy hate. Its it will take, you'll take us an army to move this thing off the floor and bit.

My ministers, have a bit of a shake around a bit of a jiggle and bit of a bougie in the in the miniature cabinet when when an earthquake hits cranky. Yeah. That's wonderful bad happen. Very often or it happens. Yeah, it happens. We'll it can happen very irregularly but, you know, I think I think Japan has about 300 earthquakes a year ranging from you know, ones that you can't even feel and depending where the you know where they

originated from that. And we've had I think maybe to sort of fairly big shocks this week. Wow. I've had, I've had ones where famously. I did it like an epic Space Marine live stream during covid on the on the Facebook group while streaming through there and I was playing a guy in the UK and as it was happening, this massive earthquake and it was the biggest one I've ever felt. Lived here almost ten years and and stuff was falling off. The shelves, like, inside my

walk-in walk-in wardrobe. I've got a whole stack of board games up there. Well, the boxes of falling down, I was holding two old holding onto this stuff here and because everything was shaking, so violently that stuff is flying all over at all over the place. But yeah. Hopefully we won't have any big earthquakes that destroy. My miniature collection. That would be very sad, but Gokhan. Morkul have to take me down I suppose if that happens. Yeah that must be quite an AG.

Do you kind of get used to it? Is it quite a weird thing that Having the world Shake around you on a very not, it's not really that. That one we had then was told that that when I was doing that before that really scared me, I thought I was going to fall through the floor. Boards is on the second floor, I thought the second floor is going to collapse, but obviously these houses are built for this kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like it's it all depends is built for it.

So, yeah, now I've gotten used to it, I think initially was a bit of a bit of a bit of a worry. And now you get used to it. You don't even think about it. When one comes you think okay? Is it doesn't? And sometimes it happens when you're sleeping too and that's the that's the consul really weird because the way here for like a couple seconds and you go for it, you fall back to sleep. So in the case of my wife, she doesn't wake up. So she's lucky then get shaken out bad, but yeah.

But yeah, Japan's not ideally suited for those kind of wall cabinets as nice walk and it's you got there. I feel Yeah, I'm a bit. Concerned about what's going to happen when I run out of room on these things. Because I'm almost at limit, our thinking here, with what I can fit in, I might have to get rid of some things.

Yeah, you got a lot of stuff there, because I know that I think, when I first discovered your channel through Dave, Gilson's Birthday Bash at The Foundry and when that happened and then you had like a video or something about it. Yeah. And I saw your collection of things Empire models. You had there. And right now I took away is that was an interesting one because I wasn't sure what I was playing up until about two weeks

before the game. So I was either I was in the joining York's I do I was joining the Empire side so I had like three thousand points of ox and 3,000 points of Empire set aside and I just grab whichever one but I was lost Was off to bring. But my, my Empire Army mostly consists of plastic heroquest in advance heroquest henchmen. I don't have a lot of actual Empire models in there.

So, yeah, it's a bit thrown together, but my, the Orcs and goblins, I didn't really have any ox and goblins prior to that game coming up. So it was a bit of an excuse to to invest in in some and I didn't want to go No full-on Kev Adams or p with it. So I went for more, a lot of them are the former rail patha figures, but I've mostly use

those as goblins. And then I've got some of the fantasy Warlords, you know, the Gary chalk, game fantasy warlord, they had some, some Western aux that I've managed to Get ahold of quite a bunch of I think, shq used to have them, but they've gone to, they may have gone to squash your Grenville. Now, I can't quite remember where they went to but I don't actually pick up a load of those before they disappeared but that's what the forms of basis

plus you know, trolls and pump wagons because that's that just says all talks to me. You need everything else is a backup but give me give me a trolls and For pump wagons on the table. And I'm a happy man. You actually do some damage then that's for sure. Yeah. I think with at least one of them. Yeah, I think I was up against when we lined up on the table, I was up against the halfling contingent and they went straight for the hot pot.

That was a definite for all feasting was happening there. Yeah, it little amazing game. It was good. And it was and it was really nice to have been able to do that because then bring it. I didn't happen that year. So it was a thing to do before. Before covid. Like a last get-together before. Covid really kicked in Yeah. Right. Please please, we went out for that. However, I have to say that when you've got that many people playing again.

The magic phase of a fourth edition Battle just gets painful. Really really painful. So I reckon either if you if you're doing that in future, you've either got to say one person on each side, can can bring magic users or you absolutely limit the time of the magic phase. The right magic phases go. You've got five minutes. Anything you haven't done in five and it took us. How long are we playing about six hours on the Saturday and three or four on the Sunday and

I think we got turn four. Well. Okay it was a long game but it was fun. Yeah. Like a lot of fun and I actually got fight, I feel tired by looking at it, I don't know why but I this it feels like it's it was like hard work. Yeah. I basically took an army that could March forwards and hit things because I really didn't want to get bogged down in the kind of complexity if things. So I was able to sort of go, right?

I've done my movement. I'm just going to set back and watch what other people are up to you. And and watching it was was as much fun as as being directly involved in it. So that's basically what I did with the bootleg for the earlier this year as well. We had a big Wood elves versus General evil army game. And again, I had I gave my archers to somebody else and I basically had a bunch of War dances and some treatment and they stomp towards things in an attempt to fight them but no

magic, no flying creatures. No, no. Any of the other things that make a fourth edition game, really? Really interesting just because I think it's more fun to step back from. Take for them. Watch what other people are playing? Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I'm quite I enjoy going to events like bring out your lead and not having anything scheduled in to actually be playing because just, you miss so much.

Why not wandering around and seeing what other people are up to. But of course, if everyone did that, then the big game is wouldn't happen. So some of these got to be involved in the big games. There was a really cool game this year or is dark future. They built this incredible board that had kind of canyons and tunnels and overpasses and none of the none of the Rolling Road

thing. The whole track was laid out for them to just play this sort of endless, looping game of dark future on looked really, really cool. Unfortunately, it was shoved away in one of the back rooms so I'm not sure how many people sort of got to witness the full Majesty. I hope they bring it back next year and put it in the tent because then everyone be able to see how amazing is yeah. I've never played and our future myself but I'd like to give it a go.

One day, maybe bring out your later, probably be the best opportunity for that I suppose. Yeah, that's not funny. Like a game, like a game of dark future. It's quite different. It, yeah, it feels like quite a different game from generally, a fantasy gamer, so it's nice to get something something different on the go. So when you do, have a chance, have a game, what games do you generally play with your friends? We tend to do, we tend to do something Warhammer first to

third. If we're doing a Miniatures game, We have played some Rogue Trooper. Not Rogue Trooper Road, trigger Rogue Trader in the past, but it tends to be a fantasy first to Third and it tends to be a kind of character-driven, you've got a character, they're trying to raise an army and do various things around the table, very objective lead game, very narrative driven game, not worrying too much about Exactly. The rules are but we don't play, we don't pay big Miniatures games.

All that often, it's maybe four or five times a year that we'll be able to get together for a tabletop game. Most of the time we're playing ball games or card games. Mmm, this is like that is good. I think we've got we're going to get the re-released block Mania out next week, I think. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm the Judge. Dredd. Yeah, accessible game. Yep. I haven't played that for a while, so it's time to yeah. It's just something is taking your mind off every day? Yeah. And I forget it.

Sure. But I have to say that I'm I'm more of a collector and painter than I am a gamer. I'm quite happy to sit at home and paint figures and not worry too much about whether they get youth on the table or not. But yeah. But it's nice for every onion when they do get get out on the table. Yep. That's that's from we had quite a good game day of gaming with some different friends, a couple of weeks ago we played a Lord of the Rings Skirmish game campaign

over the course of a day. That's quite fun. Hmm that's probably actually one of my favorite rule sets the Was it 2001 was it that Fellowship came out something like that? Bethenny. I think it was. Yeah, yeah. But whenever the films did that was a long time ago. So whenever that was but yeah I think it's quite, it's quite simple but it's also It lets you actually do quite a lot flexibly with blue scenarios on big, big

fan of scenario driven games. And that that whole set came out with books and books and magazine articles full of different scenarios. So you always get a slightly different experience and you can pick something that's, that's tailored to your wall band, which is a nice experience. Hmm. Is it.

What's the what's the 12:59 miniature in your collection which you hold most dear, which is the, which is the, which is your most favorite model is one of the one of the prototypes of the he requests Miniatures or something else. That's the one more range or a range of models that you really love that you could never do without you could never sell, or we can never give away. I really didn't know.

Oh, I possibly know that's going hunting now, but probably the ones that are most attached to see if I can get these anywhere like me in the seas. They're a bit shiny, but these are the grenadiers Dark Crystal. Oh well they did. So they are quite a lot bigger, but these are these are fairly fairly scarce now. They're also absolutely enormous chunks of the dark crystals. Probably my favorite Phil.

Well actually in a very in a very specific period of time because when I first saw it absolutely terrified me but then I I came back to it later. Absolutely firm favourite ever since. So that's, there's a very sort of personal attachment to that with those say, I think I'd go with those as the things that I'm most attached to. Well, that's amazing. I never knew where he's asked, why they haven't been painted because I just stood still. Not sure that I could do them justice so.

Well, still here waiting for it. I'm sure you came Jeff. No problem at all. Made up, you know, I love the stuff you've done for the, the old Hammer projects. You've been working on, especially the he requests and bansi requester. I really enjoyed that a lot and in fact, you fooled me because that photo you took of The Foundry. I thought they were Mike's models that you had in your hand.

Our only other one I bought and then I looked at the back of that, I know that's I can see now that they're the original ones are in the cabinet and yours when they're so yeah it helped that I couldn't get the I'm the camera Focus to get both of them in focus at a time. So, the eye, when the the good ones, good camera skills. It make very good. Yeah. Yeah. Any other sort of old have a projects you have planned for the future at all. Well, we have just started the

three 33.0 me challenge. So this is something that I think Dave Gilson is kind of Of pioneering where we're doing 333 points a month to raise a 3,000 .0 me to take to boil next year. I don't have an awful lot of time at the moment for hobby things. So, I backed and also, I've got a big selection of vintage chaos warriors on my shelves, that have not been painted. So I decided to go for a realm of chaos. All me that I could just roll up

from the book. And hopefully 333 points of chaos, should be no more than half a dozen figured.

And I've ever figures that I've already got on the Shelf but I kind of failed with the first month because of the figures that I rolled up. I then went and bought new figures for all of those things because they didn't have exactly the right thing to say exactly the right thing that I wanted and it actually ended up being about 30 figures And so, I'm lagging a little bit behind from the first from the first month.

But hopefully I'll have more expensive trips and fewer ones of them for the next month to make up for it. But I'm doing a sort of covert to Lillian's Lana, he cult. So this this guy that I'm painting up at the moment is, is my leader. They're going to be based on The Borgias and on the Italian Wars of the The 16th century. So there are lots of sort of Swiss guard lunch - looking troops and I've got hold of these plastic beasts men, you know, the Mana pose for 30 years.

And I've partied in know, sort of Ritz leaves and things on them to do them up as a, as a Swiss guard cohort for my for my debauched, Pope and his And his acolytes. I did see the video on that. That was one of the other recent videos you had up about that baseman. Well, horde of basement. You got at the bringing your leg. Yeah. So was I bringing everything that I wanted a few beastmen and Time. Yeah, wonderful. Yeah, that's a great addition. So I'm hoping possibly next

week. I mean, next next weekend is sleep. So most of this week is going to be final preparations for going up to salute, but I'm hoping at some point to squeeze enrolling, my second months worth of of troops from slave too dark. So I'll be an interesting thing. So I might do that live on the channel. Yeah, please do. Yeah. I can't fudge the rolls. Well, I will fight. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I've never seen that done before.

I I've had I've had the books in my hands and then I think I sold them without even you know, having given proper look. So I love to see how that works because I think there's a I'd like to know how it works as well. I like I've been doing it wrong because I actually Oleg's Realms of chaos. Log has a very good sort of overview of how to roll a chaos War band that he did for a, an old Hammer, warbands challenge a while back.

So that's that's worth thinking. Look at, but that's not exactly as it is written in the book, He's sort of simplified it to give people a bit more of a balanced force. Yeah, like I don't know when you stop rolling for tributes, I think you I'm basically role for attributes until you end up with a chaos phone and then start. Again seems seems to be the way of it. Yeah, I'll look for that video. They might be better. Be good. Don't don't a little cows for whatever you do.

Try not has been a real pleasure to talk to you and doing some Hobby and having a good chance. So it's been well worth. Yeah hopefully been well worth your time coming in and talking to I am going to listen, and I hope some people come and check out your YouTube channel. You doing some great content there, and check out your website and have a look at the games you're producing. And hopefully, maybe go and see

you at salute. If you're, if you're in the UK and Europe, and you can see some people face-to-face, it's been lots of talking to a camera and then responding to comments are not actually talking to people, so it's good. It's good to actually have a chat, wonderful, my life. Okay, well you stay safe there. And enjoy your hobby projects and I love to see those Dark Crystal models painted at some point. Yeah, some point. It'll happen sometime. Yeah.

Okay, wait. Until next time, take care you two. Okay, thank you. Bye.