Hello, welcome back to the Crown of Commands. This is Josh, your host, and thank you again for tuning in to another episode, a cracking one with the Terrace Cassidy from Geek Nation Tours. And yeah, Terrace has been somebody I had listened to way back on the D 6th Generation and Maples and Miniatures. He did an epic show there with Mike the the great late Mike Hobbs as well.
And I really wanted to get him on because I know he takes frequent trips to Japan every year, taking people over to to walk the battlefields or to visit certain locations and places in Japan and other places around the world as well that has sort of relevance to geek culture or historical battlefields or whatever it might be. And you know, I know that Terrace really liked Epic Space
Marine as well. So I really wanted to, you know, invoke some nostalgic memories from Terrace about his days playing Epic Space Marine. And and I hope you really enjoyed this interview. I really enjoyed talking to Terrace and I, I hope to bring him back to go through his first White Dwarf magazines at some time in the future. And I just wanted to send out an apology. I don't know if anybody has looked on my YouTube channel or through Patreon for my patrons and it's a public post.
Anyway, you can listen to that. But basically just an apology to say that the last three podcasts that I did, and it's mainly apology to you, the listeners and to the guests that came on. The audio quality wasn't really good at all and it was just me experimenting with recording through Discord and I didn't really know how or what I was doing that it, you know the reasons why the the quality was bad.
It was that I didn't realize that the sound was recording through the speakers of my PC rather than it recording internally through a channel, through Garage Band, which is the program I was recording it on. So I want to say apology to you guys, the listeners, and to the guests that came on in the last three podcasts for that. And now we're I've resorted back to Zoom, which I'm recording with Terrace on today, which means that we've got a much more
stable audio connection here. And it's just an overall better experience for the listener, as I'm sure you'll be seeing there painting your models or in the car commuting, whatever you do when you listen to the Chronic Command. And because it's a big responsibility for me, because, yeah, there are a lot of lot of people downloading, listening to the Chronic Command, which is really incredible to me.
When I look at some of the stats just for Spotify, it's quite a lot of downloads, and that's not taking into account for all the other applications like Apple Podcasts and that kind of thing, which take up the lion's share of the listenership of the podcast. So yeah, big thank you. To big thank you to you out there who are downloading and listening and enjoying each show. And I hope to bring more and more interviews to you with these amazing people in our community out there and with
their stories to share. And I get to meet them and learn about their experiences and you do too, which is wonderful. So we have that and I hope I have an update for the Call of the Crown with our friend GJ over in the Forces of Fantasy Podcast. If you haven't checked out The Forces of Fantasy Podcast, I urge you to do it. G JS Course, The Voice of the War Games Orchard and has that
sort of dissolved. GJ went on to his own podcast and formed it himself and has his own YouTube channel now and also a patron which I follow to get the bonus content, videos and audio and that kind of thing as well. And GJ does a great job in serving the community for things like first edition, second edition Warhammer that he's currently reviewing in his podcast shows and videos and doing 5th edition battle reports. I really want to encourage GJ along there.
And he's also running and I'm doing. I'm not doing much about running the painting challenge, but this year he really wanted to do the Call of the Crown Three, so that's really wonderful. That and seeing the results of people submitting their entries for that, which is awesome to see from the community, people getting involved in painting their miniatures and cutting through that lead pile and hopefully playing some games with those miniatures once
they're finished. So they're really the brief sort of things I wanted to touch on before we get to the interview with terrorists. But also in in just final thoughts, I do also post a poll on my YouTube channel talking about the content that will be coming probably you know soon as in changes that might happen in terms of bad reports and the length of videos, the type of content that will be coming.
And in the form that will be coming in, I have to reform it a little bit because of time restraints. Because, you know, if you think about a game that might take 4 hours on average, so maybe that's three hours of footage, then I've got to go through and edit that.
That's another three to four to five hours of editing because you need to watch everything and then cut out things or, you know, add screen titles, all that kind of stuff That takes up a lot of time, which I don't really have at this stage, which is crazy because you think that I'm working from home now. I'm painting as a commissioned painter for every lead studios, which is wonderful. It's my dream job. But of course that takes up a lot of my time during the day.
And then editing is kind of reserved for the free time that I have and of course that chews into my family time. So I've got to make a balance between how many, how many hours I can dedicate to, you know, doing a bad report, how many,
how many. And if it's just a small video, which I'm doing more and more these days, very small light videos which seem to be popular, which is good, people seem to interact more with those, which is nice to hear because it's about certain publications like a catalogue, introduction to Games Workshop, one of the books that I'm, you know, reviewing or something on the channel. And it sort of evokes more of a response from people, which is nice.
I like to hear you know, and communicate with people on YouTube because it's one of the primary sources of, you know, getting correspondence with my listenership and viewership on there. And it's always nice to hear people's stories about how they got into Games Workshop or their reflections on one of the publications I'm viewing on the channel. So that's basically a round up.
My good friend Khan FX in Sydney isn't with me today, but we are talking about coming back with a beer community show and going through all of that. So maybe G JS segment will be in there, I'm not really sure as yet. So if it doesn't happen at the end, I'm really sorry GJ, but
we'll include it at some point. And getting yeah, things back on track, basically, and finding a good balance between, yeah, the time I spend editing and and recording and filming and all that kind of thing, And still having time for family time and still having time to do my regular day job. So guys, thanks for hanging in there with us and I really appreciate your support, your comments, your feedback.
That's really important. The feedback's really essential to know how things are going because in some cases I don't hear anything and you're sort of just speaking to avoid and you don't know what if you're doing things right, if you're not doing things right. So yeah, if you need to let me know and correspond with me, you can always contact me at the crown of commandpodcast@gmail.com or at
abbyled@gmail.com. There's two ways of getting in touch with me or through our Discord and the links of those will be in the show notes and I'll also include the link for Terraces Geek Nation tours in there as well. It's something you should go and check out. If you're thinking about going on a a Geek tour, then Terrace
has that all sorted for you. He's a professional who's been in the business now for 13 years doing this and I really hope you enjoy this interview, especially if you're like Epic Space Marine, you're going to absolutely love it because we're going to talk a lot about that. OK, OK guys, well, without further ado I'll let you go into the interview and enjoy and take care. See you again next time.
Thanks again mate for coming on to the Chronicle Man podcast that you're you're a voice that maybe some people might remember from the D 6th generation because you were quite prolific on there. You you you came on several times it's like a third chair or talking about your geek nation tours and things you were doing actively taking people around the world in search of geekdom, whether it be the UK or Japan all over the world. So it's it's an amazing kind of
business. You started doing that and I thought I'd bring you on because I know you love Epic Space Marine and it's a game close to my heart. But as I can see in the background, you're heavily involved with many other projects as well, and it's in quite a credible gaming room you got there. Yeah, thank you. That's Ghost Recapellico right there and prostate there. And for there's a whole bunch of 40 gig stuff back there and of course some epic stuff.
Wow mate, that's that's like a it's almost like a museum or game store you've got there. Basically. Like it's nothing compared to my little small 4 little space in my house in Japan. Here it's tiny. Oh well, Japan. It's almost impossible in Japan for a while, by the way. I did, yeah. Yeah, Where are you at? I'm in MiTo, Ibaraki Prefecture, so it's about 100 clicks north of the northeast of Tokyo. OK, I I lived in Almori, so I lived in North Northern.
Wow, that's more almost like Canada then mate. So freezing. Yeah, yeah. Well, I actually did. I did a summer session in Sapporo, so it's even further. Oh wow, from university I went to in Hokkaido. Yeah, nice. Hokodai is where I Okodai. OK Oh. Yeah, I loved it there. Yeah. Got a Really. Good place in my heart. I love going back so. I love going there. So excellent. It's good, man.
Yeah. So how did how did all this start Terrace had it like in terms of like gaming like if and you're from Canada, I take it. Yeah you've always you're born and bred in Canada. How to dual gaming sort of career sort of blossom, man. Sure. I think it started with my interest in Dungeons and Dragons. When I was young, I got the Dungeons and Dragons, the Monster Manual. And I brought it home. I was really into monsters back
there, 11 years old. So I was just into monsters of any sort, Greek mythology, that kind of thing. And I brought it home and I realized it was a game. I had no idea when I bought it that it was a game. I thought it was more of a just a kind of a thing, a description of monsters. And I was like, wait, you can play it in this world? And then then from there. That's how I got into role-playing.
And then from role-playing, I got, I did miniatures for role-playing, and then a friend of mine in university actually introduced me into Epic. So Epic was my first throwaway into miniature war gaming. Well, that's quite unusual. I don't think many people could say that really to. I'm one of the few, yeah. Epic was, I think, really. I mean, I got I I had some 40K miniatures back in the day and
but we never really played. I played a little bit of of Rogue Trader, but that actually brought up. I paid Rogue Trader after I played Epic. Yeah, so so yeah, I I played Epic. Then I moved to Vancouver and I basically was living at the GW store on Water St. in Vancouver and playing Epic every once in a while. So yeah, some cool stories. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So you you started playing was it Space Marine or Epic Space like the OH? So it would have been 1st edition or second edition.
Yeah, it would have been Space Marine. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So with the foam buildings and the old warlords and the whole bit, yeah. So yeah, it started with just like it is now with GW Legion on Legion. So that's right, Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's kind of, it's nice to see GW going back and doing it over again. It's because I'm, I'm actually quite excited about it. I've been doing, as I said, I'm doing Frost Grave for a long time, skirmish stuff for probably 10 years or so, Seven
anyway, for sure. And I really transitioned kind of out of 40K into a skirmish. It just became a little bit too much game for me. Not that I I I mean I spent a lot of time with. 40K and I love my stint with 40K, but I think it was becoming too much for me and so I've transitioned into into skirmish games and Frostgrave in particular. And yeah, it'll be good to get back into AGW game, actually.
So yeah, I think I, I bought something from GW for the first time and I think about 25 years, and that was the Road Trader Print on demand copy mates. Oh really? First thing I've got excited about. That's cool. That's you know that Road Trader is. We played it for hours like so many. I remember something really good awesome times playing Rd. Trader and but with never getting a resolution never never finishing a game. I don't think I finished one game of Rd.
Trader. Because it was so complex and hard and, you know, everybody's got their own individual weapons. And yeah, I mean, it was good. It's, it was good times. But I don't think I ever finished a game of Rogue Trader. Just an afternoon. I finished an afternoon of Rogue Trader, but not a game of Rogue Trader. Yeah, it's funny, I was looking through one of the walk books, The free. I think it's the Here We Go book with the golf list in it and it's got like under Goths, like the boys.
It's got like you can you can upgrade to scar boys and each scar boy can have one of their characteristics up by 1:00. And you need to do for all of the scar boys and I think you only have about 3 or 4 or whatever, but each one can have a different characteristic upgraded. So you'd have to write on the bases or something to say, you know, like weapon skill plus one, BS plus one. It's impossible. I have the. I have. I don't know if I have the. I have the Freebooters book, not I don't.
It's a classic one. Yeah. Freebooters one, right? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't. But I played Eldar back then, like that's how that's my my stick. So even when they had the Harlequins back in the day that's I think those might have been, that might have been my first box set that I bought from GW old Metal Harlequins back in the day. Yeah, I mean, those times were great too. The the amount of cool miniatures and then, you know, the the toilet paper, toilet
pizza. Great. Yeah. You know, just just just a classic diamond hobby. The silos that, Yeah, the Kleenex silos on the table. The Kleenex. Silos and everything. Yeah, it's a great time. You get the toilet papers like tops or something to put over top of them and the. Roll right. That's how you get that roller, is the, is the Yeah, those those were really awesome times and all those. Kits like the Space Marine, the first Space Marine plastic kit, I remember we were so excited to get that.
But if you look back on it now, it's like wow, that was that was comparatively like back in the day it was awesome. But comparatively now you're like wow, this is not the same Space Marine as this one. So it's it's a, it's a it's an interesting it's a cool thing to be to be kind of part of history in in in in. Yeah, in in that whole thing. It was it was a it was a cool time to to be there, yeah. But it was funny because I got a great what were we playing?
We we were playing Epic, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, we were playing Epic at the GW store on Water St. in Vancouver. Which is basically downtown. I don't know if you've ever been there, but there's this kind of old, old style cobblestone road right in downtown, downtown cool steam clocks and just a really kind of a hip area, cool area. And that's where the GW story used to be.
So we were there hanging out at night and we would play games with the, with the, with the manager late into night and you know, we'd close the doors and and and we would game. And so it was dark out and it was so it was late and and the door kind of jingled and we're like, Oh no, someone's coming in. We didn't forgot to lock the door. And Robin Williams and Kirsten Dunst walk in and we're like, he says can I can I come in and play? Yeah, it was really cool.
So they're filming Jumanji, I believe. So it's been a while about that. And then they walked in and and he was like, yeah, those are so cool. And he was. And he started to make, you know, machine gun noises. Yeah, explosions and it. And we're like, what the heck is going on here, you know? And Kirsten, she was probably, I don't know, 12 at the time. She was like, what is Robin doing? And I think maybe it was her mom or handler or maid or whatever.
And yeah, so he hanging out for about 20 minutes and then he just left. Wow. Amazing. Yeah. The good old, late Robin Williams. He was a gamer himself, wasn't he? He played a lot, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. That's why he wanted to come in to hang out with. Yeah, amazing, isn't it? Yeah. So that was also kind of back in the day. I think that was after I came back from Japan the first time. So 919293 somewhere around there. What? What took you to Japan, mate?
What was the reason why you went over there? I've always been interested in Japanese culture, so always from from Wolverine, Frank Miller's Wolverine to Shogun, from Gevel and and then into Zen Buddhism. And my university degree is East Asian Studies, focusing on feudal Japan and Japanese religion and. Right. Yeah. And so I did a stint at Summer Session in Okaido University and then I went back and talked. And then I've been back like a lot, probably 6-7 times.
And you, why are you there? And a big story. For the women, the food and the booze. OK, that's cool. Completely. Yes, I understand. I met my wife and I came over. Yeah, we decided, yeah, she wanted to come to Australia and I thought, well I've just been living in Australia for like you know, 30 odd years. I want to come and do to Japan and and live here for a while. So we we decided to live here and then you know, 10 years later we're still here.
So and it's wonderful, it's a great place. Yeah, it's it's a it's very quiet. If you're looking for a very quiet sort of, you know, environment where I am, it's at the sticks kind of thing. But yeah, it's an exciting place for especially for young people. Like if I discovered Japan when I was like 20, I mean, I would have stayed here since then, I think. I don't think I would have gone anywhere else. I would have completely fell in love with the place and stayed
here long term. I mean, even back in the day when I when I first went there, that would have been in 1990 and Tokyo. The the the Olympics had just been, I don't know when the Olympics actually were. But Tokyo had been completely revitalized from the Olympics and it was like it was like landing in Blade Runner back in the day. It was like, Oh my God, there's it is so futuristic here, the motorcycles and the and Akiyabara and everything like that.
But I don't think it's actually. For young people, I don't think it's actually kind of come down. It's keeps on its high is still there like if so if you go to Studio Ghibli or still is awesome place to go to and there's so many other places in Japan that are just so cool. Yeah you got you got you got your cultural interest. If you want to go there culturally, look at traditional stuff, historic stuff, which is so I love doing. I love going to the old shrines
and that kind of thing. I feel really at peace in those places. I just think, you know, wow, they're really sort of mystical places. Even the one that's down the road in my local one, it's like you're just surrounded by these huge cedar trees and you're in the presence of this building that's been standing there for like 2000 years, which I'm just in awe of.
Like just looking at the discoloration on the roof tiles, everything about it, it's like you're just stepping into some, you're stepping in back in time kind of thing. I love that, that presence those places have. It's something, it's really sort of untouched kind of thing and part of their history, which is lovely. We don't have anything like that in Australia, you know. Oh yeah, same with Canada. And and I agree, I it's that those places just like you know the kind of the spirits there,
right? You know and they know how to. Not capture the spirit because that that that implies that something's captured, but to maybe focus the spirit like that air that places mean something in Japan, you know? And what's amazing about that is that you can do the same thing in Tokyo. Like you can go to a Shinto shrine or a Buddhist temple in Tokyo and you walk off of the busy super hyper busy streets and into one of these shrines.
And it changes everything. Like it, it's like you're don't even you're not even in a city anymore and you might even feel like you're in fall. Like I remember walking into a Shinto shrine in Japan and it all the leaves were were manicured to look like they were in fall. But it was summer and I swear the temperature went down like 12 degrees when I walked into this place because it just had that. Vibe that really cool history, but also just this power. Yeah, yeah, I think people have
to experience. I think everybody who's come to Japan that I've known have really enjoyed it and come away, come feeling they've had a really good experience. Like it is a different culture. It is a different, you know, different place you're you're stepping into. It's not like anything you're familiar with. So I think that's why people fall in love with it and they, you know, they want to keep coming back like yourself. So that's great. Yeah. Yeah, there's. Nothing.
You want to visit me next time, mate? Come and visit me near Baraki next. Time. Yeah. OK, I will. Well, I'm actually going to be in Tokyo in April, right? So maybe I will come and visit. I don't know. That sounds good. You'll place a space right, mate. Yeah that's that would be epic if we played epic. But yeah, sorry, we are getting we totally there was a that's good. I'm I'm blessed that not everybody has a game room like this in Canada.
So we have do we do have a lots of space though, So there is a lot of places that have gaming space in their own homes. So this is like I said I'm blessed so, so I love it And my my wife is very kind to me. So yeah, mine too, mate. Mine too. She she gave me this room. It was a blessing for me at my man cave. I can run away and hide into and long into the night. Yeah, absolutely. That's good day, mate. Yeah. So that's great. So you're still actively involved in the hobby, which is
great. It's it's sort of something that you picked up, you know, way back in the day and then you sort of left and came back to so that you always seem to be actively involved in hobby in some sense, either through physically, you know, playing games or taking people on these trips through Geek Nation tours. How did that all start, mate? Geek Nation tours, the 2009 recession. I had two travel agencies, so I was taking holidays. I was summer. I wasn't working anymore.
I was letting my staff work. And then the recession hit really bad. And of of course, there no one's traveling during a recession. So I asked my staff if they wanted to work the summer or to have it off without pay, and they, to my chagrin, said we'll have it off without pay. So that means that I had to work it. So in the summer, summer, in the travel agency, in the summer, there's nothing going on. In Canada, there's nothing going
on mostly anyway. And then in a summer in a recession, there's even less going on. So I started to read Donald Featherstone books and just because I wanted to read about game design and and how to do things and how he how the beginning of wargaming started. So I was just buying his books left right and center and I wasn't even looking at what the the titles were, let alone what was inside him. So I I was.
I even bought one of his physiotherapy books, How to Dance, How to Dance Safely or something like that. He was a physiotherapist, actually. Yeah, yeah, he was. Isn't he, For a football club? I think, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he also. Yeah. So he yeah, actually helped people dance young lady ballet. Yeah. So. So anyway, so that's cool cool. And and so I one of the. Books that came across my desk was the Battlefield Walker's handbook.
So I started to read that and I was looking for something new to do because I had already had this travel agency that is, you know, fairly successful. And I was trying to look elsewhere. But also now there was a huge downturn and I was like, what am I going to, what am I going to do? And so I read this, this book, and I'm like, wow, I could do battlefield tours anywhere in
the world. And then I was driving around, you know, thinking about how I how I could do that and listening to 40K radio and I'm like, Oh my God, I can do nerd tours. And then from there it was like, I can do a Star Trek tour, I could do a whatever tour, I can do a tour to Japan for anime, I can do a tour to Japan for battlefields. So the the IT just. Was a cascade of of of all that. And so it all came from Wargaming, actually. Wow, that's great mate.
Yeah. And it's been, yeah, you mean you start, I don't know exactly when did you start this 2009, was it 2010? 2009, I started to solidify that. And so 2010, I think was my first tour. So, wow. So 23 years later you're still going, mate. Yeah, 1313 years. Sorry, 13. Years, yeah. Don't take 10 years away from me. So 13 years later you're still going. And yeah, I sort of learned about you through the D 6th generation with Russ Craig and all that. So yeah, you you came on
sometimes. I talked about that and the. Two. Yeah. Yeah, awesome. And as a matter of fact, I'm still working with Craig. We're doing I'm when we're in the background. I have my my. Gettysburg tour. So I'm the battlefield handbook. I'm doing my battlefield tour of of Gettysburg and the American Civil War. So yeah, exciting, exciting stuff. So very happy about that and and so he's going to be running that one for me this summer. So yeah, we're still talking. There's lots of.
You know, you make a lot of different connections like we I make. I was hanging out with John Stallard this this last summer because I did my Miniatures UK tour. I did. I was hanging out with Eddie Chambers and and the Perry twins and you know, just all those old GW guys. That's what we do. We go to the trip to Jerusalem and have a few drinks. Yeah. So it's funny you become friends with these guys after a while. And and I remember the first time I I met Rick briefly, I was
just a mess. Like I was like, how do I talk to this guy? You later, later I told him that story later. You know, a couple couple years later and he goes, you know, you should have just told me, hey, we should go out for a beer. And I'm like of course.
That would have been great if I would have known yeah it's it's kind of nice it's kind of strange to be you know all these places have taken me to cool and I've and and obviously I bring my tour group there and to meet all these people and that's one of the reasons I have this connection but but just to hang with them in a in a in a pub and and just to be USBS with them and and know that they're human too but it's kind of cool that that. That this company has got me a
lot of amazing friends. Yeah, that's wonderful. So yeah, all those all those cool GW times and and all those cool games that we used to play really influenced nation tours. And I think the Internet, obviously the Internet did too. When I came back, I moved from Vancouver to where I'm living now, Hinton, Alberta. So it's just a small town in the middle of the Rockies or just outside of the Rockies.
And I had AI had a We were at that time there was a transition between epic, epic, Armageddon was going on. Then again, you know that it kind of fell off, kind of fell apart after a while. And there was a lot of us in the community that weren't really wanted to wanted to continue with old Epic. So I was part of the net Epic crew to to help rebuild Epic from from scratch and and kind of revitalize the the rules so. That was when the Internet was
really young. So I was amazed that I had friends, you know, all through the United States and and Turkey and and in England and we were just, you know, banding together to make this cool new version of Epic. So that was when I think my love of of the Internet really kind of started off too. And how it can be a. A force for community and really that's kind of what I've tried to make Geek Nation tours to be is this force for for community.
We, the Internet, can be kind of at odds with that, obviously, but if we use it right, it can be really build our community even though we might not have people really close to us.
So I've got a good friend that we game regularly, A few guys that we had used to game, but they've kind of moved on and so we don't always have that community right, really close to us and and and so not only has the Internet provided me that, but Geek Nation Tours has provided me that too, because I try to create a mini community wherever we go.
So when on our Star Trek Tour, for instance, everybody knows the jokes, everybody is like, oh, I remember that episode or or can kind of there's a common vocabulary. And so same with war gaming. When I go to the Adepticon Tour, everybody just loves what they're doing and they just want to be. They just want to hang out and express their their joy of of miniature war gaming or painting
or hobbying or whatever. So I think that I kind of lucked out that that I can create a hobby, a community within a community. So really that's what we do. I've got people that on my first tour, my first Nottingham tour, as a matter of fact they that was almost 10 years ago, or was. It was 10 years ago, over 10 years ago now, and they all hang out on family holidays together. They go to each other's, they
went to each other's weddings. So that kind of that kind of bond is really what I'm trying to do with the, with the, with the, with GNT, yeah, wonderful. And and we can segue into the knit it because I know that's how I sort of discovered you as well through the community through the meatballs and miniatures podcast with Michael. The big special. Oh yeah, yeah that was and that was a fun one.
I liked that with Ken White at this and and the other gentleman there I forget his name but he's basically the the main guy behind everything behind it. So yeah, that's that's interesting that you you mentioned that and then and the community you build up online and it sort of helped you form this relationship with people around the world.
And of course then you can tie that into your geek nation tours and sort of visit these people places and that kind of thing that you form these relationships with. That's really good. How How often does Net Epic get onto the table, man? Not very often. It did back in the day. I think that I was there was a time when I kind of transitioned away from from Wargaming. It was probably only about two years. I of course, I didn't play. I played Blood Bowl when I was
in Japan, actually. That's really so. When I went to Japan, I found, what was it? Dungeon bowl. I had already played Blood Bowl, but then I I played dungeon Bowl when I was in Japan. So even in Japan, I was still war gaming not as much or frequently as before. But then when I moved here I was so busy with my business and establishing my family that there's probably about two years that I I didn't kind of war game
and that at least a year anyway. And that time was when I I left the crew at at at net Epic and kind of just didn't do anything and then I transitioned to 40K. So, so net epic, although I was really. Interested in Rule building. I didn't play it as much as as I should have probably, but I didn't have the chance to play it at that time because at that time I had moved here and my only source of war gaming was net Epic, Building Net Epic because I didn't have anyone
here that that played 40K. Or played played wargaming so that that when I was building that epic that was actually my only source of of of wargaming contact. Yeah wow. OK yeah I I can understand it. That's why I thought was it's it's interesting that your first kind of miniature game was apart from the role-playing but the real miniature tabletop gaming was epic and it's kind of not the first game that people mostly play. We got into it because it was cheap to get into because
playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd Edition or Rd. trailer was just too expensive for us and the models are just too hard to get. But epic. You could buy everything in a box. Everything came in one big set and it just happened to be that the rules were so fun to play as well that it just became this amazing game. It's an amazing game. And So what? What did you play? What did, what did you play? Did you play like space? Where, where, where did you enter the second edition?
Second edition? Yeah, the Big Blue box when it came with all the same like Space Marine, but it just came with everything. The Titan and you know all the three different factions, and. That was the time to be in.
I mean, I I really, I mean the Space Marine was OK, but really second was was really when it kind of turned on, turned on and as a game I think it's to this day their best honestly like just the command and control of. It's funny 'cause I talked to Andy about this and he and he's he believes that it's his best
game also he did he did. I don't know if that's still the case he probably his new stuff is even better but take out blood red Skies by. But yeah he I think he there's a good place in his heart for for Epic and I think that it's it is one of G WS best all time games. The command and control method, the the way you you move miniatures across the table, it actually feels, and this sounds terrible, but it feels epic.
It does feel like it's this amazingly huge battle that you would get in a novel from a 40K novel. Just the immensity of it is is the. Is there you know as soon as. And it's not like the Titans take it over and it's important to have Titan you know, but but it's it's really well balanced and all the different, I mean all the different armies they had. I can only imagine how hard that would have been to balance. Like, it's just unbelievable. And I never felt that one
faction was like. Powered over another faction they felt that there was always a chance to win and everything there was no there was no creep back in those days. You know and and it's just it's you know it's a wonderful game and and I was really happy to see that they're kind of going back to a lot of that a lot of those rules in in Legion. So that's part of the reason I'm excited about it.
You know, you see those, those command tokens and you're like, wow, that's that's kind of bring in an old school for sure. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I'm happy for people to now re enter the hobby or find Epic in a new form and it's going to be supported. And you know they've got a new community doing that, which is which is great. So people who missed out on it before and found it too prohibitive to get back into it, or didn't find an active community, well, now they've got that.
Which is excellent. And and if it's not going to be Games Workshop figures, well there's a whole range of other companies who make wonderful epic scale models that will suit perfectly and then they've got various different systems. It's a bit like historical game. You can just say OK, I'll, I'll play that that rule system or I'll play this one or well that Epic's still there and. Yeah, exactly, mate.
Exactly. Yeah and and there's a whole bunch of miniatures, old miniatures you can still play by and I'm sure you can get those via eBay or wherever too. So yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's a it's a it's just I'm glad that the game still is going to exist again in a in a in a form that's kind of supported by them. But also I'm, I'm big proponent of of the game anyway. I've played it at Epicon a couple times by the way so that
that's that's really nice. One of my two guys you know on my ministers in the in the UK tour brought their epic and they played it at work. I think some of the game designers came down and watched, actually. Why are they playing? Because it was a week before they released regions. So they were like, what's this? And then the day that we were leaving to go back home, they released Legions. So we're. Like, wow, you guys were just buying this.
Yeah, so, yeah. So it's it's a it's definitely a a beautiful thing. So I definitely have a good good good relationship with that. I think they they they do have a hard time balancing things and making things new. So I do think that Epic will will give a lot of players a because it won't be, it won't be 40 Kick just like, I don't know,
have you played Titanicus? I've never played it, I've never played the original one, never played the new one and I mean, to be honest, I would like to play the original 1. Just because I like the scale, like it's basically just the Beetle back Titans and you got the cool Styrofoam terrain and
everything. I love the artwork and all that kind of stuff, but I heard that the new ones were equally as good and it's just in a different scale with different models and it's a very much higher price point. So it's just, Oh yeah, for sure. And like the Warlord Titan, I don't want to build another Warlord Titan. It was a thing of I would say. But it was like the original ones are brilliant mate. It's like £5 I think let's. See it done. Exactly.
And this, that Warlord Titan almost killed me. I'm like one more it was a it was a it was a Crucible for sure. But it it's a good game. It it was fun. And it the reason why I brought it out up at all is that that too is not a regular GW game.
Like it doesn't flow like H Sigmar or Fort decay it's or heresy it just is this kind of a cool mechanisms that feel kind of apart from regular GW gaming and yeah it an an amazing an amazing system So that gives me a lot of hope for the new game that it will also be kind of a part from well again we saw already that they have the command and control type of stuff and so so we know that it's not going to be the same as 40K anyway so so that that is that gives me a lot of hope
simply because again when we were working on Net Epic that was an amazing amazing time to revitalize that that the game that we love and I think that a lot of people just love now and yeah I don't know it was a it was a it was a really cool time Like I said I I hadn't it's funny that you tweaked that memory because I hadn't really thought of it as being my my only outlet for for war games for a little while when I wasn't
when I wasn't playing. So with that said I mean I played a lot of that those games like we would probably game at least twice a twice a week once a week. So when I was living in Vancouver we games a lot and and it was by and it was the only game that we played like I we
had no interest. In 40K and no interest in Rogue Trader after our our our Debacling trying to get through a game but several games but yeah we it was it was a really good time so I have really good memories of that and and yeah net Net Epic was great too because it was the first time that I had an Internet community and I remember there was just like recently there was a big earthquake in Turkey and yeah I contacted him and you know what I can't remember his name right
off my off the top of my head but and he was like no we're OK and and so it's it was a strange time because everything is so connected now but you got to remember that during the 90s there was no there was nothing like like it is now like it wasn't you had no idea what was going on the other side there was news and everything you know but you just you didn't have. I didn't have the communication lines. I mean, when I was in Japan, I used to send letters to my. Right. Yeah, me too.
I looked in the UK. Oh, you do the same. Because there's no extent. There's no way I can. You have to call them and call. It was very, very expensive. So just a handwritten letter was the way you can send? Isn't that corresponding, it's? Amazing, isn't it? Yeah. You think about that and and how time is, you know, we live kind of through history in a lot of ways and and we were in the generation that wrote letters and I don't think you'll ever see that again.
There's, you know, outliers that still write letters and everything for sure. And that's cool. That's a cool hobby to have or or cool thing to do. Even a postcard. They're like, when was the last time you got a postcard, You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, actually I live in Japan, so you dig a lot of postcards. OK, that's true. That's the first day of the. Year or like the year celebrate. The year you get a ton of them in the in the mailbox and you
have to send it to one place. The one, one place. I love that you're right because I still get postcards from Japan. So that's true if you. I don't write. I don't. I don't write them. I don't. I don't write them either. But if you want to come to the, the stationary capital of the world, Japan, yeah, it's. The first place to go to. So if you like you're stationary, then Japan. Is a place you should do a stationary tour. I'm sure we might get the wrong
place like that. Does that mean that we stay in only one part? That's a great I should you know because I actually there's a lot of geeks out there that would love that kind of thing because this stores, the stationary stores in Japan are are wonderful. Well, I was thinking for girls too, because I love, you know, colored paper all the the, the, the kinds of different kinds of
notebooks and pens and all. I mean, there's so many things you can buy and in Japan for that kind of stuff, that kind of thing related to it. And yeah, they would love that. So I think for women and for girls, I would love all that kind of stuff, you know, being the Hello Kitty pen and then mix pad or something like that. Absolutely. Yeah mate, there's a market for everybody really, isn't it? But yeah there is. Yeah there is.
And and yeah that's and that's what basically we're we're at is that we we do try to have as an outlandish tour every once in a while that is like a bowling tour or you know whatever something kind of weird or different but yeah so so talking about net epic that that whole trying to get our our community together and and having that first time to have a a community online community was really special and and the fact that that community happened to be wargaming.
It's really strange that are really cool that that a lot everything has my wargaming has LED into so many different things in my life so it's a huge part of who I am but you can't see it my my temp my painting table is just over there and I actually need to go to that place every once in a while. My wife is like, OK, you need to go paint, just go and paint and and honestly I do I need to just kind of Zen out and listen to. That's what it's about, isn't it?
Like you talked about autism before and that kind of thing, like that is kind of a type of meditation, isn't it? Definitely not putting together a wall or Titan in the new age. Tell it's like a melted project. That way I take it back and down. Fuel. Why are there so many parts? Yeah, yeah.
It's it's it's it is a it is a place to meditate and it is it's a place to to kind of get your head on straight and to just be calm and and I think that that that calming that calming the calming space is really needed for me personally and that's you know when when that when your table becomes be really careful on on a lot of things. I think for me, I I have to be really careful. Like first I I would never start
a painting service. Like I would never do that because not because of deadlines and all that, because I'm pretty good at deadlines. But I think that that when you change your table from a work meditative place to a workplace, I think that would be really devastating for me. But also, what's also really important is that that the table can't become a what's the right the sweat house? Sweatshop. Sweatshop. I felt that there is a funny you should say that. I actually did that for a living.
I paid for a living. Yeah, we're living it. Yeah, well, that I that's. I have no, I have lots of friends. Oh, that's good. I mean, I'll keep you in mind for something, so. Warlord Titans maybe. Yeah, that's right. I will send you those next time I have to build them send them
to you. For me, I'm like, like I said I've, I know a lot of people that do that but I can never do that and and but I have, I mean something different when I say a sweatshop because what was happening to me when I was playing 40K was that I was painting for my gaming table and I wasn't eating for me. And I think that started me thinking that that massive 32 millimeter, 28 millimeter game
gaming was not my stick anymore. I I love skirmish games because I can paint up a, you know, a monster, a cyclops or a or a war band, 10 miniatures or whatever. But I I don't want to be in the position where I'm working for my gaming table.
And so that's I think that's for me that's really important not to have to have to have that space not interrupted by that and and so there's two things that I wouldn't do and that's great that you do don't get me wrong because if somebody's got to do that and I think it's a cool niche to have. I think it's amazing that that that exists because there's a lot of people that are are time is more valuable than than than than their money and it's a great way for them to get a army
and something for the table. So don't get me wrong that I think it's an amazing I have lots of friends that are that do that. I just for me I think it was a mistake when I started to gear up my painting because for me it is a place of of calm and and and I do have the desire to finish miniatures. I do have the desire to, OK, just want, you know, one more layer and I'm that much closer to finished. But it's not, it's not a race anymore and it's not a, you know, it's not a place where I'm
like, OK, I need to get this. Done feel under pressure kind of thing. To do something, to finish something in order to get it on the table, to play it kind of thing, yeah. And if I do that, I try to do it at a smaller scale like Adepticon. When I go to Adepticon, I always we have a traditionally on Thursday nights, we have this kind of escape from Adepticon.
We go to a different hotel out for dinner and then that that hotel we play Frost Grave. So we're going to play Stargrave. So I will have to paid up basically half a war band SO5 miniatures for that and I will feel pressure, but that's good because that pressure makes you do it right. So so that that's a little bit different than doing it to make sure that you're competitive or make sure that you're trying to make that you're making money.
And I think that that is where the balance is for me is when it's it's OK to I won't paint competitively anymore and that means as a business, as a golden demon type of thing or as getting it ready for the my gaming table with my friends. Yeah, yeah, I I agree with that too. Yeah, I I don't do Golden Demon. I did it for a while in
Australia when I was there. And yeah, I mean it's it's an exciting event if you go there personally and see the other entries and see and meet the other painters and that kind of thing, but. In the end it was like, well, I painted this thing. It's in the cabinet. What's it going to do? But I know that's exactly. If I can't game with it, it's just meaningless to me. It's just worthless. So I would really like just paint to play. You know what I mean? Like, I love it. That's right, 100%.
It becomes a paperweight, right? Yeah, basically, yeah. Yeah. I I can't. I can't. I mean obviously dabbled but it is about getting it on the table ultimately, you know, I mean like it's it is about gaming. I'm not and I'm not a competitive gamer as you kind of reason probably, but it is about getting it on the table because that's where it really comes alive. And for me that's really the pinnacle of a war gaming experience. It is when you are so into the game that it seems like it's
real. It's like first that that immersive feel. That is what I love. That's why I'm a big terrain guy. You can probably see that. I mean that's that's a that's what I did over COVID is that waterfall and all that stuff and when I can immerse, when it can be immersive to the extent that you kind of forget where you are that's that's the best. And then and then that's why I'm I consider myself my main gaming is wargaming, but I actually consider myself a role player.
I I don't consider myself a wargamer in a lot of ways because really it's about that immersive experience, that world building that that that that adventure, one more adventure. And that's really comes down to, you know, it's it's not about how I'm going to, you know, how am I going to win. And everybody likes to win. You know everybody likes when the dice gods give you some sixes or 20s or whatever.
But but that feeling of of being immersed, that's way more important to me than anything else. When when the adventure happens and again that come relates back to the Geek Nation tours, is that really it's I'm trying to create adventures and and going to a place is is not good enough for me. Bringing people to a place is not good enough. It's about the adventure of being in that place. Like when I go to Japan, I really try to make it feel like you're going back in time.
So I do to go to Buddhist temples, I do go to Shindo Rhines, I go to battlefields, we walk the battlefield when it's there and we talk about the history and and and and just try to immerse yourself in there. And same with my Star Trek tour. So all those tours are about being immersed. And yeah, so I'm a role player, honestly, but I express it through miniature war game. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I suppose a lot of these modern games like you're talking about. The what's it called again?
You talked about it before the wizard game first grade Stargrave. You know they're kind of immersive you know small scale skirmish playing on the table, top type games more so than competitive you know you know head to head type type games which yeah, I'm, I don't feel all that you know as part from Epic. I suppose Epic space means the only game where I can I can. Enjoy the head to head kind of feel of the game because it's a feel like I'm really playing a real strategy game.
Probably less laughs, but I'm really enjoying it. It's a great experience. And I feel like I'm really in control of this massive army with this huge Titan. And you know, and then you can, you know, then you can laugh about when you're rolling the charts and you blow them up and you know, Oh my God, yeah, the work still.
Worked. And yeah, that's for sure, for sure for my regular games like for outside of of Epic, which are legions now or that I will get back into and it will be, we'll still have storylines probably I'm I'm quite certain of it. But my rules now because there's so much out there, so many amazing games, amazing miniatures that I I've put rules on what I can buy. So for me, it's got to be a skirmish game. There's got to be ARPG element, so there's got to be growth, a
means to grow. So a campaign system is even better and I will miss that when we're playing the Legions, but we'll come back to to Ghost, Archipelago and Frost grade the Frost grades and continue our campaigns on those two. But really it's that that that that campaign, that that growth, the character growth that I really do like and I think that we'll find a way to do it, to put it into legions too. So that's and and I do prefer D 20s.
I I love the Swinginess. Not everybody, a lot of people. There's a lot of hate for D 20s, but I do love the Swinginess, so that's where my passion is now. It is changing though, 'cause I'm really, again, I'm really excited about legions, but that whole vibe is how I kind of determine whether or not I'm going to buy a game. And we, I don't know if you noticed this, but we did have, we did go to when there was no
war. We went to Estonia and did a Frost Grave tour in Estonia and it was amazing. The food was spectacular, booze was good and just and and we games every night. We in Frost Grave and and basically Joe. Yeah, because Joe McCullough, he actually got the idea from Estonia. He went to Estonia on his honeymoon or something like that, right? That's right, freezing. Themselves to death and that that's where he got the idea for Frost grave. That's right.
Yeah, exactly. And so that's cool about that is that we went back and we went and went and so I would I would go back in a minute like and I don't think that there's much to worry about war wise. That culture is an amazing Cultural Center Estonia and food is it has tastes like Curry but then you got pork chops and just it's just such a collage of of coolness and the history there is amazing. And then and then we were gaming every night across Graves, so that that was a lot of fun too. So.
Yeah, no, that's fine. Sounds wonderful. Very, very very, very cool. So we So are you still playing Epic then or? Absolutely. Absolutely. Really. That's so awesome. I love that. That's that's so cool. What are you playing? Dead Epic or what do you What do you? Playing, playing second edition. So the thing was like, I played Epic with a friend of mine, Chris, and we played it in 90s when. The epic Space Marine first came out the 2nd edition set, and we bought that and we split the
forces. I took the Marines and he took the Elder and Orcs, and then we slowly built up the collections. Chris actually had a wonderful kind of homemade molding kit. He made his own molds and he would buy the vehicles and he would cast them up so he'd have more, more because you were always wondering where you could get more.
So that's awesome. Because he was he was newly married and he had a young child at that time so he didn't have the money to to splash it all nettle stuff And of course we're in Australia so it's like the you know we're we're living in the in the in the the most gaming related centric place in the world. So getting stuff was really difficult but we managed we got we got our box sets of the rule sets. I I played mainly Chaos. He played mainly Orcs and Elder. And we just loved it.
We went there every, I went to his house every weekend on his floor because we didn't have tables. We just played on the floor and I was like 19 or something like that. And he was fairly young too. So we could we could sit on the floor or kneel on the floor for like 3 or 4 hours at a time. We can't do that now. It would kill. You would. Kill you because his wife and baby were sleeping. And I remember, I finally remember all those times.
It was all brilliant. And we went to the games club and we we put on big games of a big and got other people involved. And yeah, they were the best, best times of gaming for me. So about five years ago and because I played Infinity heavily, heavily for like 10 years, about a decade or so. But the rules became so complex. That it just became this brain burning kind of experience. Every time I went to play Infinity, that it's like my God, how many rules I got to remember.
And you know, and I thought I can't deal with this anymore. So I thought, I want to go back. I want to go back to the gaming the the games that I really loved back in the day. And Epic Spaceman was the first thing that I really wanted to start up. So I I posted up online here in Japan a guy. Very kindly posted back saying, yeah, I've got some squats and orcs and you know, showed me some pictures and I thought they're perfect, I'll take
those. And you had the the Warlord set and everything and all the cards and that was how I got started back into it. I found another guy here in Chiba in Japan who also liked to play Space Marine. So I started playing with him and then Paul, the guy I came with now, he was always interested in Epic but never got to play it because it sort of phased out by the time he got into. War gaming or whatever.
So he got into it. He really likes it because he comes from the Flames of War background. So he same sort of scale similar kind of rules but and so yeah that's how we play and we play well I try, I I, you know I would love to play once a month if we can. I record the battles and put them on on my YouTube channel. So trying to keep the yeah, sorry about that. My ignorance is showing us. No, no, no. That's all right. That's all right. But yeah, we I try to keep it alive.
Yeah, because I really love that game so much. I think it's probably my favorite all time game apart. I love Warhammer. I love, you know, those old models and painting them are beautiful and painting epic is not one of my greatest loves. I've got to be honest, it's but the the game itself is what really keeps you coming back. Yeah, it's again, like I said, the system. I still have all my miniatures by the. Way. Oh, great. It's great one. I have the Space Green Army,
I've got my friends stuff too. So I've got 2 space Marine armies or the the start of a knit army. Some of it's still in metal still never hated because I that's when we kind of stopped at the end. And the Eldar army, what else? And there's a squad army there too. Yeah I've got all that stuff still. As a matter of fact, two days ago I could have pulled that out and showed you but. That's a romance trying to organize my room. But the yeah, so I have all that stuff.
So the sense of nostalgia, that's so awesome that you're still playing. It's amazing because it's it is a good game. Like all all the really kind of weird wacky shit that happens all the time. Like the the, the Eldar. It's weird. Wacky Templates. Templates. So good stuff. That and and yeah that's awesome that you're still playing. That's that's great. That's commendable and that's you see that you found miniatures in Japan. Well, I found, I found people
who were selling miniatures. So I found a guy, Bruce, somewhere in Japan here, maybe somewhere in Kanto or something I think. And he had just a a a load of old stuff. He's from Canada as well, actually he migrated to Japan many, many years ago and lives here. But I think he just brought his stuff that he had in Canada to Japan and probably just never got to play it or whatever. I'm not sure.
But he had that plus Man of War, and I bought Man of War off him at a very reasonable price and all my scaven. Me for why I'm a fantasy. I bought from Bruce as well. So Bruce has been a wonderful, yeah, very, very generous person in in allowing me to get all these wonderful miniatures and games and stuff at very reasonable prices. So big shout out to to Bruce if you yeah yeah Bruce and yeah basically got me, got me my foothold into epic again.
And then from there I started buying stuff online, of course through Facebook groups and making connections with people in the UK. And that kind of thing. And just getting stuff again and slowly but surely accruing all the stuff I've lost and giving away or thrown in the bin. I threw some stuff in the bin. Actually, would you believe I just threw it out because I just didn't think we'll ever play it again. It's crazy.
Absolute craziness. And yeah, just slowly building up my collection again to a point where I've got pretty much everything I need and I'm happy, man. I'm. I'm happy. I don't need anything else. I'm. I'm all good. So will you try legions or you're like that? The price point is too much. I'll probably just stick. With because you've got everything that you need already. I think I've got everything I need.
I think if I'm ever going to expand off Epic, Space Marine would be net Epic. I'd like to try that. I've never played it and it's another game. Yeah, I think I've heard a lot of good things about and I think most people who play Epic Space Marine always go to net as a default now. They go to net Epic now and I want to give it a go because it's very similar to. Epic Space Marine, but it has some elements of space being 1st edition in there with some of the movement, alternating
movement, that kind of thing. And it was Peter Ramos and I think another general from Peter. He made is it Imperial dominatus or something like that? There's like AD 10 system that he made based on Horace Heresy and he's got his own game that they've developed together. And I really want to try that because it's basically just like first edition Epic, but with AD 10 system, not AD 6 system. And that looks very interesting. Yeah, so D 10s are great too.
I think that that adding a little bit of swing is always awesome. So that's that's great, That's incredible that you're still playing. I think that that or that you've you're playing again. Yeah and those miniatures are are great. They are a little bit of a slog but I think that they're. I mean, I was converting mine by the end anyway. Like I had AI had a a sense of Horus, Imperator, Titan. I had. I drilled into my rhinos and
made them with cables and stuff. It made them in all nergely the sand on them and everything like that. So I was really at even at that scale. I was already converting a lot and there's a lot there. That game had so much going for it that that not miniature wise. The the infantry was hard because it that's six, isn't it? It's 6 millimeters. Yeah, yeah. So that's 6 millimeters tough, especially when when you're getting old, 6 millimeters, so do you. These, these, these magnifying glass.
I need to. Oh yeah, exactly. I can't see that. Stuff anymore. But The thing is, I'll say in it's in benefit of playing Epic One is that you can paint an entire army in a weekend. Especially with contrast paints, I think they're beautiful for that. And secondly, like you said with your friends, you know, travelling and playing abroad, I could take my epic army in a small case. It doesn't weigh anything as most as plastic and you could go, I could go anywhere and play it.
If I was going to go bring out your lead in the UK, I'd take Epic because it's just so easy to carry around. It's, you know, you can have a wonderful, you know, really fulfilling game playing Epic. And overall I just feel and I I think you you you've touched on it before the balance issue I I I don't feel there's any imbalance in the game. I. Think that you've always you've always in it. And that's the thing about Epic.
You can see how the victory points are going, how much you need to get, how much how much you need to do to break someone's company or clan or whatever you might just be able to catch, you know get it and snag the victory in the last minute kind of thing. I love that kind of that that tension that builds in the game as well. So for sure, yeah, and yeah, the it's an amazing, it's an amazing system and there's there's a lot of love there.
And you know, it's funny because when I was when I was moved to Vancouver, I was looking for work, but I also brought my orcs, my unpainted orcs. So I remember probably not looking for a job as best as well as I should have, but I was painting orcs instead of going to look for for for a job. So, so, so, so the orcs saved me from one pain for but caused another pain. So when I was done, I'm like, I can't even take these orcs anymore. I'm going to look for a job. Yeah, those are great.
And and you know, it's also about epic. It had a certain joy about it. I think that it it feels less grim. Dark. It does. I mean, you have elements of that, of course, but it has less of a grim, dark feel. And I mean all Rd. Trader and all those other older 90s games did have a lot less darkness, a lot more fun. And I get the reasons why GW went that way, because I think our society kind of went that way. But but Epic still has that joy too.
That kind of funness about it, that that ability to just kind of make silly mistakes or silly and and it all comes out OK and and yeah, and templates and blowing up stuff. And and the ORC rules are amazing too. There's just so silliness. Yeah, for sure. I was always an Eldar fan. I'm always been, whenever I'm minister, wargaming armies. I always like speed, So anything
with speed is always awesome. So lots of jet bikes racing across, you know, it's, you know what's great about that scale? That scale is great about that scale. It's such a weird thing because a bass is a bass is a bass, right? So if you were just moving basses and playing 40K, you can do that like it was just bass and you can just move basses if it was just epic. But Epic had this feel of the grand sweeping motions and this,
you know things. You can outflank people or you can do speed, and obviously you can do that at 32 also, but it just feels so much more grand when you do it in Epic for some reason because maybe it's because you're looking at. This tiny little miniature racing across what is a huge battlefield. But you have this feel of of of a bigger battle, even though it's in a lot of ways it's the same battle because the base is about the same size, you know
what I mean? So that illusion, again, that immersive, immersive means to to get people to see the battle as a huge thing, is an amazing thing that wargaming can do. Yeah, absolutely, mate. I I totally agree with that.
I think, yeah, the movement element of Epic, you know, these big sweeping movements, as you say, it feels like you're really actually flanking the army when you bring more jet bikes in or or. You know, colder speed or whatever it might be. And when I played, because we play Second edition 40K2 here as well, it just takes like four turns before you get to the center of the table unless you've got like a slogging it across, right.
You're like, but it's so weird though because they're the same size. You know what I mean? It's just, I don't know. It's just the way, yeah, it's it's a cool, well, obviously the rules are different and the movements slightly different. Yeah, that whole that whole moving and and the the battlefield becoming alive with motion is a really cool thing that Epic definitely captured and is is a huge component of of why I loved it so much.
I remember once when my friend, he was running an Imperial force and I was, I was playing an Aldar force and I had a Warlock Titan. That's right, right? Warlock Titan. Yeah, Warlock Titan. Yeah, yeah. Warlock. Phantom or warlocks? Yeah, yeah. OK, good. I just want to make sure I got the term right there. And he was like, how am I going
to kill this guy? And he made this huge Titan, Imperial Titan. And he you know got to eat it out and made it so many different things and and somehow in his build he had forgotten that the warlock just comes up and shoots him through the through this uses the psychic cannon and and goes through all the void Shields and everything So like moved up and and he's like all right. I spent the whole weekend making this Titan and he just killed it
on the first turn. What How can you forget the most important thing about this particular Titan. So yeah. That's that's the thing that turns like the the Titan versus Titan battle was like a mini game in itself, wasn't it? Like the infantry wouldn't worry about the Titans. It'll be like just just moving to get get away from them. The vehicles came. They're trying to shut down some of their their void Shields.
But then it's just like became this epic thing between the Titans, you know, dominating like two big giant. You know, like monsters or whatever. You know, like I do like God, Yeah. Yeah, Let's see it kind of like Godzilla's or something like that, Yeah. It's just not the same without the Titans. It's not the same without it. No, no, I yeah, I'd agree. I'd agree that the Titans make.
I mean, you could play it the other way, but I think the Titans make it at a level of interest that's that you can't take away from. That's best. That's best included, I guess. It's really and and that building them both the rules and of course modelling was a joy. Like I again, I come back to the warp missile thing like is it going to work man, because it's so it's so goofy and swingy you have no idea things going to go through. But then what it does, it's just so triumphant.
I remember having so many times like, you know, just screaming, yeah, where the heck exists because it's fun, man. And that's that's that's the, like I said, look there's just this last this more comedic element to epic. That's that. It is is a thing of joy because it's it's not so grim and it's not so dark, you know, And the rules have that. The rules play that sense, that sensibility. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Terrace has been an absolute joy to have your past,
man. And I really appreciate all the time that you've come on to talk to us about Geek Nation tours, your history in the gaming, touring that Robin Williams, your account with Robin Williams, and dancing in the Game Workshop store in Canada. That's quite incredible and of course your love and passion for war gaming generally. But it's of course epic Space Marine. And what is what was your craft? Or by the way of your elder, what did you paint them as? Can you remember?
Is it Ala talk or is it Hilton one? With the cup? No, the one with the cup, The kind of the wise symbol. Yeah, Eenden. Eenden. That's right. OK, very nice. All right, so I hope you get your Eenden back on the table. Yeah, one day. Yeah, I will. Maybe now. Now you've got me all riled up. Maybe I'll be like, screw this Legends, but I'm on a halt to that, mate. If you're coming over to Japan, please come and see me at the Cronic, you know? What I mean now, maybe I will.
Maybe I'll play Epic Space Room over a couple of Mihon shoes. Yeah, that would. Be awesome. That would be awesome. Awesome. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. And thanks for all the memories cuz you really brought back a bunch of memories. That's wonderful Terry. I'm really happy about that man. Enjoy your enjoy your new game when it comes and gets delivered eventually. And you know you enjoy putting all those miniatures together. No words. Take care and enjoy the rest of
your day or evening. And I'll talk to you again hopefully at some other point. OK. So thanks very much again. Thanks, Terrace. Take care. OK. Bye. Bye.