Hello, welcome back to the Chronicle Man Podcast. It's Josh, your host. And today we have a pretty big episode talking to one of the legends at Games Workshop and especially in White Dwarf. As most of you fondly remember, the Grand Warlord Adrian Wood and Adrian was part of the White Dwarf team for at least five years and he was the face behind playing the orcs in Epic Space Marine or I think Epic 40K Space Marine when it went into its third edition and 2nd edition
40K and 3rd edition 40K. So he was kind of given the role as being the Orc Warlord and you saw a lot of those comical looking pictures in White Dwarf of him giving those sort of orkish looking expressions and that kind of thing, having a lot of fun with the guys playing out and delivering all these fantastic narrative battle reports in White Dwarf magazine during the early to probably late 90s. So I hope you really enjoy our conversation today.
In fact, Adrian and I want to extend my thanks to him again. We're so generous with his time that we spoke for I think almost three hours. And So what I did after the conversation, I said to Adrian, look, I'm going to have to take out some of that and put it into a different, different podcast altogether and just take out all the kind of, you know, as you got into Games Workshop and more hobby centric related
information. All the other stuff I will put into a Patron exclusive audio clip that people can access if if you're a patron, as a way to thank them for their patronage.
So Adrian was fine with that. So today it's still a pretty, you know, jam packed interview and I really enjoyed my time talking to Adrian about his very extensive time against worship that spanned about 25 years, so which I didn't know about and certain areas and facets about his time within the, you know, the games, which umbrella as it were and different divisions that he worked in. I didn't even know about that. So very interesting conversation I had with him and I hope you
enjoy that. Today. In other news related to the YouTube channel, I did upload a couple of videos in quick succession. One was with our terrain tutor Melbos with his Terrain Essentials book, which is a wonderful time of information. And Mel and Dave are very kind and sending me APDF.
And I and I said let's let's put this on the YouTube channel, let's get a bit, give it a review so that people can see exactly what's in it. If they've never seen what's the the contents of the book so that you get a better idea of what to expect and you hear from Mel directly about the processes and ideas and thoughts behind what he wanted to contain within the
book. So that if you were thinking about or on the fence about getting the book you have a better idea on how to get it. And and that way every book to sold it's it's sort of kicking back a few dollars to Mel to help him out which is great. So yeah I was really glad we could collaborate on that and I think next week we're going to go through his first White Dwarf magazine together which would be
really nice as well. So keep your keep your eyes peeled on what's happening on on the YouTube channel if you can. Also as of yesterday, about 8 hours ago I had AI had a wonderful opportunity to talk with Matthew Bickley and Mark
far from Futsal miniatures. Well Mark is a partnership in partnership with Andy Hopday at Futsal and they have produced some wonderful games like Mortal Gods, Gangs of Rome, the Barons War of course and they do a range of sort of Dark Age miniatures for Saga and they have their own rule set Conquest set in. So it's it's I I believe it's based on the Barrens War type of rules. So that was really interesting conversation. I didn't know that Mark had been working for Gangs Workshop for a
very long time as well. And Matt seems like a very. They're both very, very nice guys to talk to, very open and very friendly and conversational. So I would like to get them back onto the podcast in the future so that we can sort of delve a bit more deeper into, yeah, their hobby history. I'd really be interested to see what they have to say. So that's really it guys.
As a roundup of things that have been happening in the background here at the Crown of Command, I hope you have been busy this week doing your own hobby and listening to the podcast or other podcasts like Bedroom, Bedroom, Battlefields for example, or The Forces of Fantasy.
So another another couple of great names out there in the podcasting world that if you don't know about them, please go and check them out and check out their content because they do both great stuff Matthew and GJ. And until then guys, let's get on with the show. Enjoy the Enjoy the conversation. By the way hope we hope we started we've. Started. Oh girl, that's good. It's all right. We're just that's that's brilliant.
Basically you'll now you'll now record and and then you'll snip out stuff that's that's nonsense. Like we go oh, we started and things like, that's great. Oh, that's good, that's good. Oh, brilliant. Well, that's that's that. That puts me very much. Yeah. We're giving all the stuff away here and it's all like you can keep this in. By the way, I don't mind it's buying because it's very much is. Inform me, though. It's a generic, you know, sort of a spontaneous conversation.
It's nothing. Well. Exactly. Well, this is this how it should tell you guys. Exactly. OK, well, I'll give you a I'll give you a a bit of a potted history because as with as with most the most people, everything that you do interacts with everything else that you do. And it's so I was how I got funnily enough how I got into into this stuff was was was kind of similar to you in the in the that I was aware of The Hobbit book. I was also very aware of Conan the Barbarian.
And I was, I was aware of Conan through the Marvel Comics and the because I, my dad brought home some of these these kind of Marvel Comics and it was like wow, this is amazing. This, this this guy who's like you know look you know look looked incredible and and was fighting all these crazy monsters and it was like in this kind of strange world a kind of past world and all this kind of so loved it.
And then then I heard about The Hobbit because we started to read a bit of it at at school and thought, yeah, get hold of a get hold of a copy of The Hobbit and start to read that. Didn't get very far into it though, because I got distracted by other things and I was always very interested in.
I was reading like 2080 when it first came out and I loved that and thought that was fantastic and and Star Wars and I was very interested in horror movies and like from a very young age I was very my mum bought me a a book called Pictorial History of Horror Movies back when I was about 7 years old and I don't know why she bought it me she just bought it me and and that kind of started me on a road towards science fiction and fantasy and horror and all that all that kind of stuff.
And anyway getting back to to the chronology. So I had the whole bit and I started to read a bit, the whole bit and then I got a record which was a a chap narrating the story with Marvellous. I think it was like A5 record set and you can find it on YouTube somewhere where he took took you through the whole story and and did the voices and
everything. And you know it's when I, you know I I first heard and talk about the battle of Five Armies and I was going Oh yeah, I've heard the battle of Five armies and now he's talking about it and and I love the whole thing and at the end of our thought this is marvellous sissies. I was also aware at the time of of role-playing on of Dungeons and Dragons and I heard of Dungeons and Dragons.
I thought well this was great, so I've got a hold of a copy of the original which I've still got the original Dungeons and Dragons rule set in the the blue covered kind of the blue coloured book. And the only thing is is no one I knew was interested in doing anything like that. You know it was like you know all they wanted to do was play football and you know and I didn't have many friends to be
perfectly frank. It just one of those things and well certainly not who was who were interested in doing doing anything like that. So I thought Oh well I've got this now but this is this is all this is all cool. So let's Fast forward a bit. I went to art college and to learn to be learn graphic design study graphic design. So I actually understand point sizes and lading and how you lay a page out and how you design and you know sort of actually went into you know did a lot of that.
The reason I say that by the way is because these days I, I, I do a lot of putting together. I put together posters for my wife because she's she's a singer and we we both go out and we we both go out and perform and stuff And I often see other people do posters for to advertise them as solo singers and stuff and I'm sitting there with my head in my hands just going this just looked awful and I'll offer to do them posters and stuff and it's and they don't want to spend any money on
advertising. So I just think it's insane and I kind of think but you you don't understand how you lay one of these things out. If you know I'm thinking to yourself if you took that image and you've just did this with it or if you just made the text a bit better and if you chose this kind of, you know it would actually look so so much better but they but they don't want to spend the money.
So in the end I just I just do my my graphic design really is is just done for myself and for Jules. Now we've done so we, you know, it's just one of those things. But like I said back in the day, I start. I went to art college it it mixed feelings about art college, learnt learnt a lot of stuff but nowhere near the experience I thought it was going to be. After that I got I got AI worked in a school for a while and then I worked at Ladybird Books, heard a ladybird.
I've heard of them, yeah. It's like a really old label, really old publisher label. Well, Ladybird were, yeah, very much so. Ladybird were a company that were based in Loughborough and they they were printers. What the book, by a happy chance they'd gotten into printing children's books and it's what they were thought they were most famous for with with these amazing children's reading books, these little hardback books.
And I've got, you know, back at my mum's house, I've got loads and I had loads more of these books. I've got some. I've got some in the house with me now. A beloved, beloved books. You know, my mum had a, a family friend who who actually worked at Ladybird, who I then went to work with because I got because I got this job at Ladybird Books in the advertising department.
And I have to say I learnt more in my first month of being at Ladybird than I learnt in the whole time I was at art college. I mean, incredible difference between the, you know what what you you go to art college, think you're going to learn, really learn how to how to do, how about graphic design and about, you know, topography and an illustration and all these things. And actually when you come out of it, you've only really got a diploma and that's it.
That's all you get. And a nice portfolio that might get you a job working with pretty much with what happened with me might get you finally get your job working in a in a decent company. Did did that for three years. Great experience. Had probably generally the guy who was considered the best boss in the company. Guys called John Scott, awesome bloke. I lost touch with him many eons ago. His wonderful bloke great guy and it was great working for him. He used he used to call me his
lackey which I found quite. I quite enjoyed that and I think he he realised very quickly that I enjoyed that kind of that kind of humour So you know that which was quite cool and but then was then the company was then broken apart and like just kind of like just everyone everyone was made redundant and and they they kept a bit of the original art team and then they moved everything down to London and I mean it still exists as an as an imprint
but but it's not not certainly not the company that it but it was I had I was I went and worked for the UCCF which is a company that who were the universities and colleges Christian fellowship and it was it and they basically did and that was working in their graphic design department and I went and did that for nine months and then got made redundant from there because they ended up in trouble It was just one of those kind of periods in time and just then
just then I kind of saw because I because while all this had been going on I'd I'd I'd gotten married then divorced very quickly I was nasty and but the brother of the woman I married a guy called Chris who you know is amazing mate and we both got into playing Warhammer quest round at a friend's house and so I and so and that was a that was a great experience kind of went and we go round there and and and play warham and and it was
crazy because the guys who were all gaming with they're meant to be like lawful good characters but they were the most reprehensible kind of cutthroat band of of miscreants you could ever ever possibly meet behaved awfully and they're meant to be lawful good characters I think I'm kind of I'm thinking this is this is really funny this is this kind of because eventually we moved on to advanced hero quest because of course that
gave you more more options for for more madness I mean not that I knew any of that because I was too busy like like being the character I was I can't even remember what character it was actually but after a while I was getting a bit fed up with how they were how they were behaving and how they and the stuff that they were doing I thought you know let's start to push let's start to push the envelope here a bit let's let's try and see
what craziness we'd come with so we were so we ended up with this this this evil Wizards room that you know like you do when you go on one of these questions you end up in the room and there's a you know there's zombie over there and this that and the other and I and these and got Chris was the dungeon master and said describe the room OK and then he said there are rows of vials of liquid along with us oh really OK so I hopped straight
over to all these vials of liquid and drank it As you do. As you do, because I thought, let's see what happened, come just let's see what happens. And he said, well, that's interesting because you've just turned into a Scaven. So my character was trans. My trans was transformed into into escaping and actually actually legitimately evil character. Oh, that was obviously great. Now I can have some real fun with this.
If this lot of behaving, what's going to be, what's it going to be like with an actual legitimately evil character amongst you? I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't compete with them because they were that bad. I mean it really was, you know, I was the I was more like I was the the good guy compared to them. It was quite funny. But so and and I got myself a scathing miniature a guy with a a a warp block pistol. I still haven't got him still, unfortunately.
I wish I had him still and it's but he was and I loved it he he was just it was great having just being different and being something a bit off the walls. Me not human or all this kind of thing. I seem really enjoyed it.
Then things like things changed and the night that they did their gaming on was a night that I couldn't do anymore So I said said to Chris you know I I'm you know I really enjoy gaming with you and and all this kind of thing we've got to kind of find find something else to do because I want to carry on with this gaming we just have to do it on a different night So yeah yeah that's a great idea let's go over to Leicester to there
was a there was AI don't know if it a it was a particular shop in Leicester that was that were selling fantasy stuff and we knew that they knew the gaming stuff and we knew that they were they they stopped like Warhammer Quest and things like that. So we went over there and had a look and and we were we were presented with choice between two games one of them was Blood Bowl and the other one was Space Hulk And so we went oh OK well let's we can say well we could do Blood ball.
Blood Ball looks interesting. Spacehawk looks really interesting. So we bought a copy of that. I mean it was like £30 or something like that. And we bought it, bought it, took it home, didn't quite understand what we got. I mean, it said like it said, three 3D role-playing game on the side, which was. Which was which was when they were putting that on the on the covers of them of their games just to try and sell it to the role-playing people really as as as as which is well done that
that that you know. So you know and so we took the game home got it open, realised actually this is this is much more of a of a lot of of a tactical board game. We're quite happy with that and started playing and that's really when where things really started to started to take off. I'm just having a quick review in my mind, don't think I've missed anything out arriving at this point. OK, so we played Space Hawk for a good while and loved it.
And immediately it was like, yeah, can we get some walks to go in here? And can we, can we, You know, can we. Yeah. Really like the alt models. Let's, let's get some walks in. What about Imperial Guard? And what about, you know, and it wasn't long before we were here, we had Dreadnought stomping around in there and all sorts of stuff.
I mean in some respects we we if we'd have gotten as I think as a matter of what we've got if we'd have gotten Space Crusade that would have scratched a lot of those you know those itches for us in a lot of ways. But as it was we've got space. We've got space for first, which in many ways I think is a is such a good, elegant, sleek set of rules just absolutely stand
the test of time. Particularly the original rule set where we really did have absolutely like quite a lot of freedom to you know make your own stuff up and and and do your own thing really, which was which we really enjoyed. So we probably maybe spent the year doing that. And around the same around the same time we were kind of saying, well, you know we've we've done a lot with this and
it's been really great. I remember we got this, we got the psychic system and it was just like what is this? You needed like, a separate brain for all the rules for the psychic system you could have. Have you ever? I take it you played Space Hulk? I've played Space Hulk, but I played. The first one I played was like third edition. OK. Recently second, so yeah. Yeah, because the original, the
original release was three. It was the original box which was was Space Hulk itself which was really the the main, the main thing and he had Death Wing which introduced which was really a way of getting you to buy metal miniatures with the assault cannons and the the chain fists and all this kind of kind of stuff. And and then the last one was Gene Stealer. And Gene Stealer introduced the hybrids and the whole law of like you know all that kind of
stuff. But he also introduced a card based psychic system which was incredibly complicated and in a lot of ways I mean looking at it now, I mean actually I realised at the time it's like you look back and you kind of like you know I I read through the rules again recently in the last like year or so and thought to myself you should really have read these properly when we actually you started started gaining this
thing. Because you know it's like you start to realise that the the flexibility of what a lot of what you can use cards to counter other cards if they've got a little symbol in the corner and all this weird stuff. But it was it was quite arcane. It's because it's just nice in a way because it really suited the the the character of the of of the game and of the 41st Millennium wonderfully.
But you did feel a little bit like you were you were you were dabbling in sorcery, which is quite nice actually. It's quite, quite cool. But after we've been doing Space Hawk for a while, we kind of went, we were kind of talking about, well, shall we start to break out of the Space Hawk and and create like a grid, like a grid thing on a table so we can play like games of Space Hawk as if it's, if it's, if it's on the table top. That was where we were heading
in our minds. I mean it was not almost not aware of Warhammer 40,000 as a game or anything like that. And and it was at that time that Space Marine epic Space Marine came out and I said well actually if we want to do, if we want to fight tabletop battles, mass battles, that's what we ought to get. So we kind of went OK, well let's well, why don't we get that bit.
So toddled over to Leicester bought a copy of of Space Marine brought it back and started playing that and absolutely fell in love with it. I mean I thought Space thought was great and it is great as what it is as as like as a like a tabletop board like an almost adventure board game if you like. It's so good for the action system and all this kind of thing. Amazing. But Epic was just like, I mean once we got it set up and and I painted everything because Chris
was never a painter. Chris was never much of A painter, but I very much became I I loved painting the miniatures and I loved all of that and still do and collecting and you know converting and all that kind of stuff.
And so you know and once we just sitting standing back sometimes just looking at the at the our board that we were playing we were playing on and looking at the spread looking at the layout the way and looking at the you know the the Falcons like flying around that flank and and all this stuff and the and the the way the battle looked and being back from it enough that you could like look at this thing. Because it's not it's not a film
of not a film. It's not a it's not a we forgot film equality to it. It's not a game of tactics. You don't win a game through game through tactics. You win. You win a game of epic through strategy. It's very different. It's a very different kind of where you have to look at, you have to look at like and particularly when you have to go after objectives and and things I think have you played epic? Mate, I love Epic. I'm so glad it's your favorite game because I absolutely. Really.
Really. Oh, fabulous. No, no, no. Oh, mate. Well, you know, everything that I'm talking. Which edition? So I I entered through second edition. Now I think you're talking about the 1st edition like the Horace Heresy set. Was that right? No, I'm no, I'm talking about the 2nd edition, the blue box, the 2nd edition with the the Space Marines, the Elder and the Orcs and the Titan. The one that's the one. What? What a box. Yeah. I know, yeah. What? What A box set. Is that stunning?
I mean, you want to immediately start adding stuff to it and you can, you know, But it's like, oh, that just, I mean. Yeah, have a have a drink, mate. You're right. Grab a grab a quick drink. And The thing is, is that as you know it's again, you know it's it's it's not just about battering the crap out of your enemy. That's right. I mean it is a bit about that but it's like you know but it's like but it's about going after these objectives which which would be what would be the real
driver for any real battle. And and like getting into things like you know using your using your command sections to nip in and and nick those objectives at the end of at the at the end of the game and and making sure you you you take down all the Titans as soon as you can and and the Wave Serpents because Chris played Eldar and those damn Wave serpents and finally though I I really went oh God that was so annoying.
It's like, you know, it's still like my my artillery batteries, you know, the were were good because I didn't, you know, I didn't play Orcs in Epic. I. Didn't play orcs at Orcs actually came much later for me. I was. I was an Imperial Guardsman. Right, there you go. I was Imperial Guards. So it was it was all about like artillery batteries and those massive companies of of Imperial Guardsman. Yeah, I'm going to. OK yeah. 30 guys on the objective. Take that away from me.
Go on. I dare you. Try it. Try it. Yeah. Yeah. Just just try it. So, you know and all this kind of stuff and that's how. So now my so I was always trying to get those damn wave serpents. You know first first point of, you know, first of birth is where the wave serpents, right. Every artillery battery drop everything you have on those wave serpents, you know, because you can't shoot them, because of course, if you remember, they can't shoot them at the front.
You had to drop an artillery battery barrage on the back of the miniature. She could actually hit it crazy. But I was grateful. And we had endless hours, because you could, because these games were enormous, were enormous. We had endless hours playing with the Titans and and and all sorts of things. I always found the Chris always commented that I always seem to get on better with the war hounds.
When it came to time. The War Hounds seem to really suit me because it was so it was so mobile and because for every you know you could get so many of them and always seem to do very well with with with those. Whereas the the the Warlords are great but they're just kind of one thing all in one place. Whereas the war hounds could be quiet, could be really good fun.
But I loved it, absolutely. And to this day we'll get more on to that and to this later and to this day it's still the the one thing that really pushes all my buttons when it comes to to collecting and and and wargaming really, it's absolutely amazing. So it wasn't long before after that we then started to get we.
We then got hold of a copy of Warhammer 40,000 and realised that because we were getting wiped off by this stage, realising that you could actually play battles of with the tabletop battles in the same way that you could with Epic, you could play Warhammer 40,000, play a tabletop experience with the model, all the models that we had had collected for space bulk. So we kind of.
So we started to experiment with that and that was like that was the original, the original kind of addition of that and they'd just, they just brought out like Warhammer the big bot original Warhammer big box game where you, you know you got you actually bought bought armies. This would have been that probably just after Space Marine second edition I think they brought out Warhammer and as a as a box game and they were talking about doing Warhammer 40,000 the same way.
So it was like, Oh well, that sounds sort of sounds very good. Now it was around that time when I was made redundant from UCCF and I hadn't really enjoyed the time at UCCF very much, so it was only a part time job anyway. And so I was looking forward to like, yeah, I was. So I'd be made redundant just like, oh crap, out of the job again. And my girlfriend at the time picked me up because she worked
in Leicester as a nurse. She'd picked me up and I was kind of saying, oh, you know, I've just found out And I had been White Dwarf magazine in my hand and there was an advert in there for for a what they called a production assistant working on White Dwarf magazine. And I kind of went and it said, you know, must have a minimum of a year's experience. And I'm thinking to yourself, you've got years of it because I
was 28 by this time. You know, I've been out of art college since I was like 20 maybe. So you're something like that. So I had years of experience. I was thinking, if I don't go after this job, I'll be out of my mind. I'll be absolutely out of my mind if I don't go for this. So I sent an application letter and I got an interview and I went in.
It was I was interviewed by Robin Jews and Chris Colston and and they interviewed me. Well actually was was it for it was it wasn't actually for White Dwarf magazine. It was for a production assistant, worked in the coming back. Now you know the in the deeps of the memory, it was actually for someone to work in the studio, just in the studio one like boxes and and books and army books and all that kind of stuff. But Robin was there because he was looking for people for for
White Dwarf as well. So they sort of gave me the interview, looked through my work and they said well, and they said the thing that is that was said to me when I went for, for, by for my interview at Ladybird, which is is, is that you've got all the skills that we need. The one thing that didn't say that we did that, they didn't say it. Ladybird was this said, but
you're a bit old. The other thing is you're a bit old because we are used to taking people out of straight out of art college who've maybe been in the industry for a year and not paying them very much. Right. OK. Listen, I'm very open about. It yeah well I'm not even I'm not even surely quite said it like that but I I certainly sat there and I thought what you're saying is is you you you don't you you get people from ARC and you pay them a pittance and actually after a while they
actually start. They actually kind of said well we often see working at Games Workshop and certainly back in 199394 time that it was very much a case of someone would come in and work. You work at Games Workshop for a few years get an apprenticeship get some experience and then move on right. And that that was kind of how they saw it, which, which was an child. They kind of justified not paying you a lot of money. You're working for it, you know, you're working for an exciting
company. You know, we're all the miniatures and all this, yeah, based all the stuff which didn't actually matter a job to me, you know, big, big as, as I say, being 28, being a bit older. If you are enjoying this podcast and the content on the Crown of Command Games YouTube channel, then please consider supporting me on Patreon.
Becoming a Storm Boy allows you access to behind the scene news information of upcoming podcast guests and themes, video battle reports and occasionally exclusive podcasts with special guests or fellow patrons. And coming soon are painting videos which we made to give you the skills and tips on painting in the red period using modern paints and practical
applications. And you can also access one to one painting lessons in the Heavy LED Master class tier for a 40 minute personalized painting lesson. So check out patreon.com/the Crown of Command Podcast. These days, I'm still. I've still collect. I still collect miniatures. While the pandemic was happening, I collected a ton of epic miniatures. Oh cool. Absolute tonne.
We see when I when I'd originally been collecting, I'd collected really Space Space Marines initially, and Chris had Elder didn't touch the oaks, funnily enough.
And then we did and we had the Imperial Guard and that was probably about it. Those were the main factions that we. Whereas now I'm kind of going actually you know what I would collect everything all the all the plastic troops that I can get my hands on And so I just and so I ended up I ended up getting ended up getting a ton of stuff and I've now painted it all and based it all. Brilliant mate. About 12,000 miniatures. Wow. I mean, I'm OK.
And bear in mind that a lot of them are Space Marines, so they're like a single colour. Use contrast paints. Contrast paints are the best. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely love love contrast paints so a lot, a lot of the time it's a single colour contrast paint colour over white. They look amazing and then you base them up nicely and they just look fabulous. I mean the metal stuff costs an absolute fortune, but the plastics, well, it's not so much now.
But when I was collecting it, I picked up a load of stuff actually quite reasonable prices. But I mean if you go on eBay now, it's there's nowhere near as much stuff as there was for sale for stuff like that. But I know. Probably because I bought it
all, you know, you know, but. But I know it's been great because actually put actually put together proper, fully painted armies and my philosophy, my philosophy for how they were painted was very much one of I want this stuff to look like proper, like like want these models to look like these, these look like proper armies. None of this red tanks nonsense. I mean I've got photographs because before years back I I I
put together a couple. I put together a big ultra means a big Blood Angels army and and great. But it's like I looked I looked at them and I thought in the I thought this looks weird to me Why why would they be go why we got red tanks. Why we've got blue tanks. So now everything. Yeah, I think the main colour I used for almost everything was Agaros Dunes, So it's that kind of khaki colour which looks like looks like proper military colour. Tanks look amazing in those in
that in those colours. The Land Raiders and so did the Space Marines. They're absolutely stunning in this because and of course I can use the same colours to paint the the Eltar and I paint the helmets blue. So there I am done. Yeah. So they look terrific. The orcs are kept in black because. And what I did with the orcs was, is that everything's in black every they're all black, all of them. All the clans are black, but the shoulder pads are in the colours.
So you know, red, you know, red for Evil Sons and you know, blue for the the their skulls and all that kind, that, that, that kind of thing. They look great. Oh, that's good mate. So I loved, I loved doing that. And then I did all I did. Ton of chaos stuff. I love chaos, mate. I love chaos. Awesome, really beautiful models. Like just, you know, really nice. And there's a lot of proxy stuff now that that that that Onslaught and Vanguard natures do, which are really nice metal
models. I won't touch Resin. I've. I do. I've never gotten on with resin. Me too. You're not a fan. Metal or plastic or that's it. I can't. I won't work with anything else because you can't strip it. You can't If you. If I buy models, a lot of the time it's got paint on. I'll use tech. I'll use Dettol to strip all the paint off before I repaint it. I mean, Jules is you've been stripping again, haven't you? You've been stripping all I can
smells Dettol in here, you know? So sorry, he said. Well, there's worse things I could smell. So it's it's it's, you know, and I'm just paint. I'm just, I'm just loving it. It was like, you know, it's been a great project. Something that I've really love to love to put together. It's I sold my Ork Army or I've over the years, I think I've collected about four or five different Orko Orkarmies and they've all gone. And my latest and my last one, because I never played with it.
So the one sad, the one sad thing about about doing all the battle reports and things like that that I did when I was like in White Dwarf that it made me quite quite cagey about who I played against because I used to have to play games against people I had no, no gaming relationship with. I've always seen, I've always seen this will be. I think this will be interesting for people to hear, people to
hear and talk about. But I've always believed that that you you know if you if you game with people and you're in a club or it will just just makes the come round and game once a week. You don't know how good you've got it. That's gold because you're playing people on on a playing people on a regular basis. You you learn the rules together, you figure out the rules together. You play your version of the rules actually is what you really do and you have a great
time. But when I was in White Dwarf and I was doing these battle reports, you know you you'd have been gaming against people who, no idea, you know, never played many of the time. Probably wouldn't want to play with them any other time. Right. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, just well, that that nice people really, in some ways, all right. But I mean, a lot of them were, a lot of them great, but but a lot of them weren't. Right. Did you ever get to play against Andy Chambers at all in an epic
game? Oh well well. An epic game. Yeah, in I. Never got a chance to play. I played against Gav Thorpe a lot. We did. We did a lot and and I Gav was great. Loved playing at shout out Gav you're wonderful. I loved gaming against Gav. He was great when he wasn't. When he first joined, you know he did a lot interesting on the subject of Andy Chambers. We a lot of admiration for Andy. So I think, I think present tense.
I think Andy's a great guy and I love keeping track of what he's been doing, listening to podcasts and things like that about about what he's been up to and stuff. Nothing but admiration. Great guy, worked, worked really hard in the industry and has done some great stuff. Good on, good on you, mate. Good on you. I had an opportunity to do this is this is this is the the best this is the most fun battle report I did. Absolutely. I'll tell you about this one.
This was really really fun. He, I and Alex Boyd did a did a battle report where it was a three-way between the three of us and we were like playing when we were like playing against playing against each other, three war bosses battling it out. So he was the best one. It was terrific, great fun and I want it on a dice roll. Even better, mate. But it could have gone, it could
have gone the other way. And that's the thing with it, you know, absolute respect to the other guys at the end of the day that could that, you know, I went it on a dice roll.
It didn't have to go that way. And they were, they were great and they were great players and I loved playing them and admired them and thought, you know, and The funny thing that happened is, is after that, that was a battle report that ended up in in White Dwarf. After we did that three of the other guys who Imperial guys in the studio said how about you 3. Fight us you you know you you as war bosses on one side of the board and us as as Imperial commands on the other.
Why don't we play a massive game And you know they thought, yeah,
yeah that sounds great. Now there's a there's a there's an orcs, the thing that Orcs talk about, this thing that Orcs talk about which is that that that humans are are funny because they're always fighting amongst themselves and always squabbling and fighting amongst themselves and saying I know something you don't say you need to listen to me all this kind of thing and and what they say is that and while the the humans are arguing amongst themselves the orcs come up and beat them
up. The beautiful little, it's a beautiful little kind of quoty kind of story thing that's that's it that I don't know if it turns up in the army books now but I always think it's a a brilliant description because what I see I've always I've talked about this in in in interviews and what a while back now. But my viewpoint on Orcs is is quite different from how other people view orcs. I see orcs as an absolute robust society that will absolutely win.
They are going to win. Well, I mean actually Chaos will will win war that you know the the Warhammer unit, the Warhammer 40,000 universe will fall to Chaos eventually is too powerful. So that's it's the long defeat. And I very much, I very much see Yorks as being being being part of that and I see them as being an absolute robust society with with a technology and a grasp of technology. There's the the humans talk about Ork technologies.
They have these guns. We can't get it to fire, but if if an Ork picks up, you can get it to fire. There must be something magical about that they talk a little bit about. And actually the reason Ork's gun fires is because mechanically, it works. Your stuff, the human stuff, everything that's based off STTSTCS and and all this stuff, you know, they're like, they're like they're into prey over the weapons before they can fire them. There's human stuff's magic in
their minds. It only works because they they're the ones that the weapons work because they believe the work. But they say it's the Orks and it's not. Naturally, no, The Orks, if if you look like a the truck model, that truck model, it's called blasted suspension that models a proper truck that thing could drive. And this is saying you look at Mega Armour, there's there's Pistons.
You look at the you look at anything that the Orcs make you look at and you go, it's got an engine and a pulley bit and the thing and and and you do this is the works we can an engineering mind created this totally legitimate, absolutely powerful society. The only thing that lets them down is they end up fighting each other all the time. Yeah, that's it. Because they're trying to figure out who's the and that's probably the. They reckon it's. It's the only reason why they
haven't taken anything. It's about, right? Yeah, because they're so busy fighting amongst themselves. But they're but, but I always see, they always see the orcs as being a a just such a legitimately powerful thing. I I, you know, a lot of people. There was a time when the orcs were a bit of a joke and I think that no, you're not jokes maybe. No, just pretty much. You'll you'll know all about it if you play them in epic. How bad they are? Oh, go well. So I never have.
I never have. I want to. I want to do it and I look reading the rules about and how they work and how you can add cards to the the to actually make those formations bigger and more powerful. The idea that you can add if you have a clan of orcs and if you add bikes a bike adds plus three to their to their to their break point. Break point? Yeah, that's right. That's insane.
Yeah. That and that makes you insanely powerful whereas that you if you have boys they might add a couple of points and this they had them bikes and they had three. It's like for the for the same price. So you're going to you're going to add you're going to add bikes and you're going to add bikes and tractor cannons and because they that's what they do. Oh gosh. Anyway, so getting back to the
getting back to the story. So this whole idea was, is that we were so Alex, Andy and I were going to were going to face up against these Imperial commanders. This, this will be fun. So if you looked at the York side, if you looked at the York side of the board, it was like it would, it would, it was literally like, you know, Andy had come up to him. Yeah. I'm thinking of going around, going around the side here. Is that all right for you? That worked for you?
You're just going to go out there say, yeah, it'll be fine, mate, You do that, aren't you? So we were, we were in total cooperation with each other, you know, All right, we know what we're going to do. Imperial side couldn't stop fighting amongst themselves. Couldn't believe it. They were like, you know, I want to do this. No, you don't want to do that. He said no. And in the meantime, we're getting closer and closer and closer and closer to them. So you can imagine where that
went. Yeah. It's like, yeah, yeah. It's orcs in close combat. Oh, dear. Your army's dead. Yes, you were. You were laughing. You're laughing. You're shooting holes in us as we dash across the table towards you. Yes. That's that's another ten gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know. Oh, they're still around. Yeah. Oh, they're getting closer and they're getting close. Oh, dear. I know. They're in close combat. Yeah. Oh, your army's dead. Or at least that. At least that's how it you.
And that's how it used used to work when I thought. Yeah, yeah, nice, mate. Was it? Now the Imperial side was that made-up of like White Dwarf team members or can you remember? Well, they were just, they were just guys who were. And we never got. He never got put in a magazine or anything like that. It was just, which is a pity, Which is a pity because I thought he was hilarious. Yeah.
And it was. And it was great because it meant, you know, I was playing with with, you know, playing with Alex and playing with with Andy and we were having a great time and mutual respect for each other. And it was, and it was all cool. Whereas these Imperial guys were just like, couldn't believe it. I was just like, oh, what are you doing? You should be. You should be concentrating on blowing holes in this in the in the Yorks are heading to us. Because if you don't, you're
going to be in big. Trouble. We're getting close. Come back with you. It's not going to be pretty. Of course he wasn't. Oh gosh. It's absolutely absolutely mental. It really really really was. But that was but it was that was that was nice. That was. I'd say that that was my my favorite little little things that happened when I when I when I was when I was gaming in the studio and there's A and it was and that was with Andy. Andy's great. Really, really, really great poke.
Is there anything you want to? Well, I was going to ask. You ask me. Yes, I was going to ask you a couple of questions, mate. About what? What's what's the sort of the, what was the first miniature you bought for? Was it, was it actual Space Hulk? Were there the first miniatures you came in contact with with Games Workshop, or was it something else? Oh, I mean, was it hear request?
Or was it? Well, when I was when I'd originally got the Dungeons and Dragons game, I bought Citadel Miniatures because Games Workshop was based in, as the Games Workshop like store was originally based in in. It was Newark I think. Yeah. In fact it was Newark I think and that was my grandma lived in in Newark. So I went once went over there with with with and said well could could we drop in.
So I went I went there and I and I and I got I bought some miniatures off the off the off the rails in in the the games Workshop Citadel miniatures. I bought some off the rails I think it was some rail path ones as well and I bought some of those those inner games workshop. I can't remember how old it was. It was maybe 14 or 15 bought those. I think I've still got. I think I've still got one looking around that's great, excellent. It's a it was a a a floor trap
one of these creatures. It's like you know a big big mouth that you walk into and you get eaten and it's for D&D and stuff like that. So that was those. So it did those. And then later on when I when I was doing, doing the kind of the the Warhammer quest stuff, I had Bescaven miniature and that and that was and that was my proper it was my like proper modern Citadel miniature that you either I'm sure you can get him on eBay somewhere.
I said very specific because he had horns on his head and he was holding a Flint like a warplot pistol. So he was obviously a I think he was some kind of a a priest or something like like that or something. Was he pointing? He was he. Was he? Was he? Point is like outstretch fingerprint. I think so, I think. So I've got this guy right here. I've got that guy right? Oh. Really. Oh, fantastic. He was. He was great. He kind of summed my character up really, really perfectly.
As I'm told, we got it. But then after that, it was very much, it was very much space, It was very much space. Hulk lead and it was a lot of Terminators, Got a lot of the metal. Terminators. Wonderful, because we were so like in love with Games Workshop stuff. We were like we just got, you know we were going had Space marines in power armour going down the the whole we had orcs in there, we had absolute squigs, absolutely anything. We love the miniatures and we
just got everything really did. Just ton of it. Don't have any of it left. Yeah, that's. A. Shame. Looking back, you kind of go, oh how, how can I let that stuff disappear out my life? Yeah, but you're not not you're not alone there, actually. Don't think, Adrian, because I think most of us did the same, mate. But now you talked about collecting a lot of the epic space ring over over and that kind of thing. Are you actually actively playing that with your friends
at all now? No, I haven't. I haven't gained for a long game for a long time. I've been so busy, caught up trying to make the working with on the business and stuff. I haven't. Yeah, it would be really, it would be really nice. I mean, actually this might sound a little bit ridiculous, but actually talking about what I've been talking about today has made it's been quite cathartic. It's been quite nice to to actually talk about the time at Games Workshop and some of the stuff.
And bear in mind that this is like tip of the iceberg of of of stuff but the but. And what I was saying about the one thing about doing all the Bath reports is it made me very cagey about who I I played against. So I would, I would, I usually. What I would usually end up happening is I would, I would usually find like a couple of people who I would play regularly, who I would trust to play regularly again, who had who.
I had the right attitude. I saw the right attitude to to gaming, which was this, this isn't about winning. This is about like playing a game, hanging out with your mates and having a great time. And you know, so because like I said, I think like if if you're if you have a club where you can do that. If you have like any group of friends where you can actually get together and and do so, you know it's, you know, don't take it for granted.
I don't want to sound like patronizing an old father but don't. It really is a wonderful thing, a great thing to have in your in your life to have to have that kind of thing. You know, to have mates or you know, they'll come in with their latest, the latest model and you try your best to destroy it on the first term or with and all
that kind of stuff. You know, I mean you know and I mean all joking all joking aside, it's like I think and part of me kind of now kind of thinks myself I really ought because there's stuff going on in Leicester I could probably go and get involved in. And in a way, I feel like I've probably got enough distance from it all to kind of be able to go, well, you know, maybe get out there and you know, once a month or something like that, go out and do some, do some gaming
again, think about doing it again. But certainly the Epic stuff, I mean, I mean that might be quite tough. But you know, fortunately, I mean I've even got, I've even got plans to come up with a, a solo rule set for Epic. So I could actually play, you know, just even just play against myself, you know, if if I can't find it, if I can't find anybody. But I mean, the only thing is if I was going to go out and if I was going to go out and play again, I'd have to 28 mil scale.
I'd have to create some models to do it because I haven't gone there. Yeah. Yeah, because they're all gone. I have thought about if I was going to go, if I was going to collect an army. Now I would probably collect a corn army all right on demon army because you can use that army in or in any scenario. You can use it in 40K, you can use it in Warhammer.
You can use it in any of the other games that that that you do. I mean, you could even drop them in a You could even drop them in movement trays. I'm sure no one's going to going to quibble over the fact they're on round bases in the movement trail. They could have a go. I don't think they get very far with. Not against the war. Get stuff, Get a grip. A grip. You're talking to the Grand War. That's exactly right. It's fine. They're in Booth. It's in. It's fine.
Yeah, it's fine. It really is fine. And so and certainly there's there's one of those army, those army collections you can get and there is you, you spend about £100 and you get all this, these blood letters and crushes and all this stuff and it's incredible value. I mean you, you're buying the stuff you buy. You, you. Basically it's it's worth twice what you pay for it. I mean the only set of the thing, the thing with games, workshops is just so expensive.
I know that's right. Exactly, exactly. It's the and it's always been, it's always been the same. I mean when I work for you know you could get stuff you got stuff half price if you work for the company which is which is brilliant. I haven't got that now. So you know, if I do something like that it's that's a that's a real commitment to Chuck down you know like £100 to get one of these boxes, but on the other hand it might be worthwhile doing it. I'll see, yeah, I hope so for
you. But look, Aiden, look, it's been a massive interview today and it's been wonderful to talk to you and well, listen to you in your story and everything. I really appreciate that. All the time you've given us today, it's been immense, mate. It's been massive and I think we can keep talking on and on, especially about Epic I. Think we could. We could we have to come back again at some point together and and sort of meet up at what a time and and just talk about our love of epic mate.
We both are massively passionate and we both have great history and playing epic space marine and and we know how good it is and yeah, we like I said we only touch the the tip of the iceberg you know, so. I think that's the funny part. I mean, I mean, I knew that people wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what people wanted at all. I just. I just thought look, the only thing because I've literally, I've had to go back through my mind. Yeah and like and be selective
because I didn't. I thought I want to be fairly. I want to be fairly positive because actually working at Games Workshop has has a massive impact on me and a massive impact on my life And and The thing is is I don't want I don't want to just sit there and moan about all the bad bits. I wish they were bad because there's a bad bits when you work for any company. They're just is that's right.
You know. But what I want you to talk about was I want you to talk about the you know and I'm really talk and I haven't talked that much about those It's I have to say thank you very much. I really when you initially asked me to do this I really did bulk at it because I thought was so I really think to myself does anyone is anyone going to be interested in in in this and I hope they are.
I hope, I hope people will, will, will, will will get something out of it. But it's been good for me in a lot of ways because you know, I mean I've not been you know, I've been out of Games Workshop for five or six years now and it and you work for a company for that long. It's like you know you've been in prison for that long.
You know you know you you become institutionalized and actually you come out of something like that and being able to to then kind of make some sense of it and and kind of look how it really, how stuff really applies to your life and what you've gained from it and the skills you know, the skills that you've gained going kind of moving forward.
I mean it's it's great to have all that and be able to take all those skills and now apply in a different way and then different in the music career as you know it's been you know I can't, I can't I can't deny the impact the Games Workshop has had on on on my life. It's been it's been absolutely, absolutely amazing let alone the impact of, I mean the company itself, let alone the impact of the IP and the games and all
that all that kind of stuff. So I mean when you initially didn't want to do it, but I'm really glad I did. Oh. Good, mate, that's excellent. Like I said, it's a bit cathartic for you talking about and bringing up well. I think it was because I think, I think it has been, I think, yeah quite it's been quite important for me to to do so. Thank you very much for the time. But anytime.
So yeah, like I said we can, we can definitely talk at length about Epic Space Marine. I think we should do that at some stage, or even have have you on for one of our live shows on my channel, on my YouTube channel, so people can interact with you and the audience can, you know, ask you questions and that kind of thing. I think that'd be really fun too, if you're up for that at some stage. I think it would be. I think it would be. I think it would be. Yeah, and that's that's a that's
a 2 hour blockbuster, mate. Or war. So you've got you've got plenty of time. To. To talk. Oh God, you should have rained. We should have done something. You should shut up your fool. Don't talk about that. No, don't talk. You'll destroy your own solutions. It's like there's. Probably, There's probably things that I can think about. Oh, that's right. I should ask Adrian about that. And so it's nice that you can come back.
And I always like getting people back on the show because there's a lot of, there's a lot of a lot of questions are asked, you know? Well The thing is, is that you've, I mean The thing is you haven't, you haven't asked me any question and I was kind of expecting some but it's like in the end I've just kind of talked you just talked career really. But if you want to ask me and The thing is is I'm happy to,
I'm actually happy to talk. I mean I love to talk about like converting and paying those those, those subjects to me absolutely legitimate. You know it's like and for people who do, who do the stuff that we that we do within the hobby of Games Workshop to actually be able to talk about about those aspects because they're because they are important and people want to know the best ways to paint stuff and how to how to convert and all this kind of stuff.
And I'll and I'll love that kind of thing, the gaming and collecting an army and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, great. Well, how about this is a concept I'm going to put. I'm going to post up a poll on my YouTube channel and through my patrons or whatever. And so you, you choose the the your most favorite Adrian Wood article in the White Dwarf magazine and they'll have a vote. I'll take those and I'll show
them to you in advance. We'll put them on the live show and then you can talk about it. You can, you can say anything you like. They'll have questions obviously about the article or something like that. But you can talk about your conversions or the battle that you fought or you know, the the thought process behind this scenario or this article you wrote or something like that. It'd be really nice for people to engage with you after all these years that you've been out of Games Workshop.
But just to talk about that, I think it'd be really nice for you and for the the listeners as well. So we'll definitely have to come back and do that at some point in the near future, mate. I well, if if that. If if they are interested, I'm happy to talk. Awesome. OK, mate. Well, thank you so much again. I don't want to take up any more of your time with your wonderful morning. It's been an absolute, absolute pleasure. I've had a great time. I've been very honoured, Sir.
Thank you so much for your time mate, honestly, and for your. Thank you very much. I'll see you soon. Absolutely, mate. Take care. OK? And all the best. Well, the music, music industry business. Thanks. Very much. All right. All right. See you later. See you mate. Bye, bye. Thank you.