Perfect, here we are, welcome to the Conversation Factory, officially. I'm going to do a proper introduction before any of this happens, so we can just get straight into things and you can just tell me what your favorite types of conversations are. Okay, like now? Okay. Yeah. My favorite types of conversations. I actually reflected on this actually recently because I was talking to my husband and who is a self-proclaimed introvert, but I actually think he's way more extroverted than he says.
I enjoy one-on-one conversations that are that go below the surface. And I tend to, not consciously, it's not like I intend to, but I tend to go fairly deep pretty quickly with people. And I think I enjoy those conversations the most. I would say like on a scale of one to 10, 10 being super, super deep. Mm-hmm. like therapy deep, I'd say I like a six. I like a six. so just like just wait so if 10 is 10 is like therapy deep. 10 is like I'm crying telling you all of my deepest darkest secrets.
10, right? A seven is like, yeah, I like seven. Six, seven is good. I think it's like I'm sharing about, you know, my, I'm being honest and vulnerable about my personality quirks or, you know, what's going on in my life, but, you know, with some balance, you know. Yeah. Balanced, balanced realness is a really interesting. That makes sense. It's interesting.
Well, so first of all, I feel like your diagnosis of your husband versus his own self diagnosis is a really interesting side side quest that I just want to go on briefly because I feel like I'm on a mission to declare that introverts and extroverts don't exist. Apparently, like 80 percent of people are what are classified as ambiverts, which is to say, I think everyone benefits from time alone and everyone benefits from time with people and everyone needs to regenerate after having time.
I think there's like at the 10, you know, if one is introvert and 10 is extrovert, I think those 10s are maybe psychotic. Like people who are like so extroverted, they have no internal life. They don't have their own thoughts and feelings. that are just entirely externally. So your husband identifies as an introvert, but you think he's more extroverted than he believes or that he proclaims? that I think he, that I think he's self, I think he's more of an extrovert than he self identifies as.
But I think you said something just really interesting right there, which is that everyone's an ambivert. Okay, I can, I'll go with you on that for sure. Maybe what it is is that there are people who, you you have these people who are really, really, really extroverted. And maybe that also means that, because there are so much on this side of things a lot that their alone time has to also be more intense.
And maybe there are people who you're extroverted a little bit, but then your alone time doesn't have to be so intense. So maybe we're on the spectrum of like dynamic versus not as dynamic, maybe. what an interesting question because it's it's it's what do you do to reconstitute yourself after having gone out into the world is another interesting question. So I have I'm to have so many follow up questions. You'd ask me before we started like, well, what's what's behind this question?
I feel like it's everything because I'm wondering if you're in a conversation where it's at a four in terms of like not enough realness and not enough, you know, balancing of interior and exterior. How do you feel like you, what do you do in that point? Do you exit or do you try to create more depth? Like what do you think you do when you're not in the kinds of conversations you want? How do you get it from a four to a six? I think I just ask questions. you know, not everyone's game for that.
nor do you always want to engage more deeply with specific people, right? but I think if the desire is to go deeper, yeah, I think I ask maybe unexpected questions? Yeah. Do any questions come to mind? Because I think good questions are, they're a rarity and they're important because I think a good question can unlock so much. Right. Well, I think it context matters. think person, yeah. I mean, I just, I am actually recalling a moment.
I was at Burning Man last year and literally had met this person for, I don't know, five minutes, 10 minutes. And they said, what's holding you back from being happy? Like, okay, let's go there, okay. You know, so. and did you feel like that question was answerable in that moment? Yeah, well Burning Man's a special place, right? It's a little bit different. So yeah, think, I mean Burning Man is a space where I think all questions can be attempted. So yeah, I gave an honest answer, you know?
Well, so, I mean, the context is, I mean, you make a very valid point because context matters and the sort of the magic circle that we're in, you when you step onto the playa, it's this special place where rules are suspended. It's not exactly the Vegas rules. It's some other sort of rules, the Black Rock City rules, I guess. But you are the leader of a company. You create, you host meetings, you create a circle of culture.
And I guess I'm wondering how you create a place where And this is stuff we've talked about in the past, a space where people can be open and honest about the kinds of feedback that they want to give to each other or to say what's really going on or what's wrong or to celebrate what's going right. Like creating a space where these real conversations can happen is non-trivial. And I'm wondering how you think about that. You know, and on the playa, everyone, it's a very egalitarian space.
There's no, you know. No power dynamics, but obviously in an organization where you are the CEO, there are power dynamics. So I'm curious how you think about creating that real balanced conversation when you are at the helm of the conversation. well I think the first step is being very open about what you want in a culture and saying, you know, I think I'm very upfront with anyone even during onboarding, you know, to say that even though you're filling this role, if there are any...
Any feedback across the company or ways that we can improve, I want to hear it. And I think I've also said a good idea can come from anywhere. Regardless of whether you're the expert or not, sometimes the most creative ideas are from people who are have no idea about not no idea, but you know what I mean, though they're not the experts in in that.
in that particular area and they can come up with because they're seeing they come up with ideas that are unique and interesting because they they're not embedded in sort of the how things are done all the time. And so I think being vocal about it but then also you know creating space to have those conversations you know I think we've had kind of all hands meetings.
can, you all hands meetings can be very functional, like this is what we're doing and we're executing on this, but it can also be like, okay, here's, in the last 10 minutes, like what have you guys, have there been any, you know, kind of thoughts around like broadly how, you know, the direction of the company or how we can improve. I think just creating space for it and asking. Right. What's what's keeping you from fulfilling your dreams? But in.
But in a way that is kind of what you're asking is like, what aren't we talking about that we should be talking about? Like what what is unsaid? And really trying to make space for that. I mean, it's a non it's a nontrivial conversation, so I feel like I hear this often where people. Other people who I coach say, like, you know, I try to ask for feedback and there are sometimes a limited. capacity of people to feel like Their opinion is really being asked for that.
They really can say what they want to say So it seems like one thing you're doing which I'm just noticing is asking often, right? You know, you can't just ask once and say they clamped up they didn't say stuff. It's it's asking on a regular basis and Creating that space consistently seems to be really important really crucial Yeah, yeah, Yeah, and I think something actually that came out of one of our sessions was the... I don't know if you gave it a color. Was it like the blue diamond?
Remember where we were talking about that? Diamonds versus hearts versus spades? Yeah, the feedback model. Yeah. And we actually have adopted that quite a bit where it's like... It's like feedback is meaningful when you provide examples in real time. And the more often you can do that, you just kind of get into a mode of constructive feedback, or like useful feedback, I should say, whether positive or negative.
Yeah, I'm just so tickled that that's something and thinking of them as, I see why you would call them blue, because we talked about cool versus warm feedback and sort of like fuzzy versus sharp feedback, right? And so for sure, giving somebody a fuzzy, mean feedback is like. That was the worst. That was just terrible. It's really hard feedback to give. By the way, this is totally, I'm going to have Carol Robinson on the podcast.
I asked her about that exercise you wanted to know about from Carol Robinson. So I was like, hey, listen, I had a coaching client. She asked me how to do this exercise. I had never done it before. And I actually asked her, she has an AI that she has uploaded. everything she's, it's actually shocking to have a conversation with Carol's AI and then to talk to her about her AI is fascinating. And I actually asked the AI about the, you know, the tapping thing, the exercise.
And she was like, yeah, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's a very long exercise to give peep to say like, I've got positive. And, and she reprimanded me several times for using the word negative. She was like, we don't talk about it as positive negative. We talk about it as. constructive feedback or positive feedback.
So, I mean, it seems like you've really taken to heart, like, how are we giving each other feedback on a regular basis and doing it in the near term as, you know, as quickly as possible, as specific as possible, as relevant as possible, as generous as possible. Is that fair to say? yeah, 100%. And I think, you know, we've optimized, you know, Nathan and I, my co-founder, for those listening, you know, we've optimized for, we have a rule, it's like the no-assholes rule, right?
Now, that may change in the future, maybe, but for now, like, that's the rule. And so, but then what ends up happening is you have a bunch of people who are really kind-hearted and really warm and feedback is really hard, turns out, for most, I mean, it's hard for most people, I think, in general. I think you have to acquire that skill set, but I think for people who are generally kind, it is even harder.
And so I think having some parameters around how to do it and to practice it, to use that muscle, I think is how. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting to hear. I am curious if you could talk a little bit about the experience of asking your team to lean into positive feedback at that, you know, sort of the exercise that we landed on at the end of that call. Because I think it was such a beautiful moment.
Yeah, think it gave a lot of our team members... a way to bond authentically and to sometimes it's hard to say nice things too. You know, it's like, it's awkward. It's like, you know, but be nice, so we don't want to say something mean, but it's also kind of strange to lean into saying something super specifically nice can be equally odd, which is fascinating and true. yeah, to be effusive is like also vulnerable, you know?
So I think, you know, what was super helpful about that exercise was saying, okay, if you have a positive, you have positive feedback for someone, that's awesome. But let's back it up with like real instances of where that person made an impression or made you think that. And I think that actually really made a difference. It made people actually very quite emotional because it's almost like because you have those examples, like you know it's real. Like I'm not just like blowing smoke.
You know, it's like I truly believe this and here's why. And I think that's really powerful. Yeah, it's bringing the receipts to the conversation. You are amazing at blank. And I saw the impact of it in these instances. It really does help people feel seen, which is I don't think anybody gets enough of, I feel like we should back up a little bit. I'd love to talk about your relationship with Nathan and like how you guys met, how you decided to build this company and.
This is a very big, this is too many questions to ask at once, but this is sort of like, you know, paint the picture of where we want to go. As you know, co-founders, it's such an important and I think critical relationship. And just like any marriage, I think the breakup rates are high. And I know that you and Nathan work really intentionally on cultivating your relationship. So maybe you could take us on the journey of, you know, not at least a Nathan and.
and your parallel journeys and your journey in parallel health, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So our company is called Parallel Health and we've been at it now for a few years. We're coming into our fourth year, which is kind of scary because it feels like really fast. We started the company in 21 and Nathan and I met at a company where we worked previously. And at the time he was the VP of Science, I was the VP of Marketing. And we just got along really well.
know, Nathan, I mean, Nathan makes it easy because he's like almost like an encyclopedia a little bit, but like a thoughtful one. So you can ask him about really anything and he's at least read about it. And we would just have really interesting conversations. And obviously, you know, he's a phage scientist, which is pretty interesting. And know, phages are... The most ubiquitous microbe on the planet and yet they're a little bit They're not yet, you know known in the mainstream.
I think as of yet, but I think they will be but Anyway, so we met at a previous company and we just really Talked about the future and vision of what phage therapy could be so for those listening phages are you know microbes they're like microbial snipers that kill bacteria and they only kill a very specific group or even one bacteria and so we can use them to precisely kill a certain bacteria but leave the good bacteria alone.
And so you can think of them as like a a replacement to antibiotics and in some cases they could work really well with antibiotics and reverse resistance. So you know we met there and I really just asked a lot of questions around, could we do this and could we do that? And could we, you know, what do you think about this? Just really silly questions.
And I think maybe that's where I have empathy for people who give feedback where they have no place to give feedback because I do that all the time. But we just got along well.
I think, you know, we had seen some things really work at that company and we saw things that didn't work and we had sort of this idea for precision health at large and we actually brought this idea to that company and they were sort of lukewarm about it and weren't you know they just thought they knew that that was going to take a lot more capital and so they weren't ready to do that and so you know Nathan ended up leaving and
A few months later, he called me and said, I really have conviction around this idea of precision health, using testing, testing the person first, seeing what microbial overgrowth they have, and then using phage therapy to precisely kill their bacteria that's causing their issue. And he said, I want to do this. I want you to do this with me. What do you think? And. you know, from a business standpoint, I think there were a few pieces that had to happen, which they did.
But I think from a human perspective, we actually took the time to have long... And sort of go deep on conversations around like, well, what do you envision? Who do you want to be as a founder? Like, you, you know, how do you deal with conflict? You know, who do you, where do you want this to be? Who do you want to be when you grow up? Like kind of like these questions. And, and yeah, we just started in that process and we did go to Esalen actually.
So. Esalen is one of my favorite places in the world. Another, you know, like Burning Man, create space for people to have, you know, in-depth conversations. And he had never been, but he, you know, he's from Oregon originally. And so he appreciated the nature, the nature-y aspect of it. But yeah, we were able to just have, you know, real conversations, you know. Those are some really good conversations to have. Like what kind of a founder do you want to be? What kind of company do you want to?
create? What is your conflict style? I mean, and I can see how going and we actually goes back to the conversation we had when we started about going to a certain space that can create these types of conversations. How did you make sure that you had the right amount of space for it? To really make sure that you got to the, as you said, like the real and balanced, right? Because I assume that maybe you for this conversation, you want to go to a six point five or seven. Right.
To make sure that it's like. really real and that we're getting to the heart of the matter. Like what made you feel like, we, we've, got there. We landed this conversation. Well, I mean, you've met Nathan. He's an easy person to have a conversation with, so that helps. I think one of the things is like, how do I feel? I think we all kind of know how we feel when we're talking to someone. Like, does this person...
Also allowed because of this person also has energy that is also creating space, right? So the other part of it is like how do I feel when I'm around this person? Am I able to be my best self? Am I allowed to? Feel like I'm being honest And and vulnerable without feeling like you know, defensive or, you know, shut down or anything. And I think I was able to be really honest with him. And I think in turn, I think he was able to be, you know, really honest with me.
I think, I think that sets a foundation. And I think like, because running a company is like super hard, there's like always things coming at you. And so there, you know, that kind of dynamic is tested over time and I think you always have to like recalibrate a bit. I know I'm sort of like digressing but No, not at all. This is actually really, and it lights me up because I feel like it's an awareness of someone else's impact on you. That's part of a conversation as a system, right?
There's what you decide to bring to it, the kind of questions you ask. There's the kinds of questions someone asks of you. It's how they respond that lets you know, this is a space where I can be a little bit more vulnerable. than in a normal space. So it's actually really interesting to be super sensitized to someone else's impact on you. yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, so I guess and this is a cop out answer, like Nathan's like really easy to to chat with, you know, and I think that's kind of his like magic, right? Like he is a great conversationalist. He's super humble himself. He is self aware in that he knows what he's good at and what he's not good at. And I think I think I am too. so, but he's, he's better than I am like in that category of self-awareness. And so, yeah, I don't know. think, I think just having that honest conversation.
Yeah. It's just so interesting because like I've been doing a lot of interviews for the last couple of years with co-founders about their relationships. And there's so many more that I can't publish because a lot of people don't want to talk about what we've all suffered, which is co-founder trauma, right? In getting into a situation with someone where you're like, my God, why is this so hard? Why am I butting my head up against this? conflict and not knowing how to get out of the conflict.
Like there's conflict and then there's conflict resolution styles. But there's some times where you're just like, think of it as like the old Tom and Jerry cartoons where it's just like a cloud of exclamation points and hashes and little limbs going, rare. And why are we still in this? And it's very hard to get out of that. it's actually, it's just great to be like, oh, I'm in a healthy relationship and I like. I like my partner, right? Nathan is sweet and verbal, right?
So I think he does know how to verbalize and there's, know, some people where their conflict styles they go, they go inward. I imagine that his is to go outward and to communicate. So that's, know, that's really important to notice, notice those things and to what I would call prototype the partnership. You guys had worked together in a different context before and you really knew a lot more about him.
that way and it still does shock me how many people wind up in a partnership having already raised money before they really know their their co-founder it is it it happens a terrifying a terrifying amount Yeah, I think the other thing that helps is like, we are so different. It's weird because we're similar in like a really strange way, which is like we bond on this concept called hige. It's like a Swedish word, I think. or where it's like this cozy sort melancholy like thing.
And I think there's like something about that that like bonds us. And I think that probably tells, if you knew that, I think it says something about like who we are, like behind closed doors. So there's something human about that that we bond on or bond around, but everything else is so different. Like we grew up in different, you we studied different things. I mean, I don't think that we would have met in social circles.
So I think that there's, because we're so different, we are respectful of each other's lanes, you know, or more respectful than the average. think because it's like, okay, like I just... You handle that, I trust you to handle that. Like I have no choice but to trust you, so cool. You know, and like vice versa. And I think that is, that really is helpful. we've done this for enough years that we have been through, you know, some ups and downs together.
And I think that also like, if you can get through those, then I think you're more bonded than not. Yeah, that's for sure. And this is a non-trivial point, by the way, now is that the awareness of difference and the appreciation of difference. actually I hear this a lot when you talk to couples therapists, just the awareness that, you know, these are two different brains. And instead of going, why the hell are you thinking that way?
It's like, tell me a little bit more about how you see this situation, because I appreciate that your brain is different than mine. And I even though we don't agree, I all the time, I expect that your way of looking at the world is going to be interesting and valid. I would like to just unpack it. It's like that's a it's a it's a mode of curiosity and an appreciation for difference rather than like I cannot believe you think differently about this in this moment. It's nontrivial.
Well, I think like from a human perspective and then also from like a skill set perspective too, right? Because it's like when I look at Parallel Health, it's like such a science driven company, but we're commercializing science, right? We're bringing phages to people so they can use them in their daily lives. And I always say to Nathan, like if he weren't doing it, if he just decided to like quit tomorrow, like I couldn't do it, right? Yeah. wouldn't want to do it.
And he says the same about me. And so I think there's like an interesting combination there that we actually do like need each other. Yeah, that and that that feeling is important. It keeps you bonded to each other and makes you want to work through the difficult moments, which is beautiful. Well, I feel like we should definitely talk about one of the one of the topics we were we were sort of brainstorming around focusing on, which is Fender led sales.
You two are both out there helping people understand. this product and helping drive adoption, explaining it not just to investors, but to customers. And I'm curious how you think about, and we've talked about authentic conversations inside of the company and culture building inside of the company and relationship building inside of the company. And I think all of these perspectives can be applied to this broader conversation, which is a dialogue with.
these communities and these other audiences. And I'm just curious how you've been thinking about approaching. the external conversation, like how you talk about the company and its product in a way that makes sure that people really understand it and bond to it in the way that you and Nathan are bonded to each other. I mean, this is a big question. It's one that I think about a lot. I was at a pitch the other day. We were I was invited to pitch parallel.
And, know, you know, in a pitch, you always have to like introduce yourself and like whatever. I've I've I've now like just resigned to the not resigned, but I basically have just I try to keep my intro short. So I just say, hi, I'm Natalie. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Parallel Health. I'm really just the translator.
You know, like, you know, and I think that is actually foundational to the company in some sense, because there are, if you think about personal care companies or skincare companies, beauty companies, does the science serve marketing or does marketing serve science? And 100 % at parallel, marketing serves science. So really what we're trying to do is we're trying to do good science and bring great products to market, but then we have to explain them.
So the marketing is in service to that mission to bring those products to market. you know, it's not, some people are like, well, you need to like dumb down the science and like, sort of, it's not really dumbing it down. It's just like simplifying it to, you know, and just What is the most important thing that people need to hear about this? And what's hard is that different people have different desires or different goals.
And so that thing that you tell them may be a different angle of what is. And I think that's the nuanced part. yeah, I mean, I think it's really about sharing what this new technology and next generation science can do to help you in your life. Yeah. Yeah. curious, I mean, you've been doing it now for a couple of years being on social media. I mean, I think it's also learning the language of these platforms as well.
How do you adjust the message and the presentation of your pitch and your story in these very, different contexts, right? Like the Instagram reel and the boardroom. They're very, very different conversations, very, very different contexts. I'm curious how you think about your presentation of self and what parts of yourself that you bring into those conversations in those two different, very different contexts.
I mean, to be honest, I don't know if I'm, I'm not the best like social media like person. you know, I think I'm still, I don't really know how else to be except for just myself. on social, I don't know. I like, I'm not a Tik TOK person, right? So I don't, I, I'm not like filming all the time. I don't. Mm-hmm. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to integrate that into my life at this point. I'm learning.
But maybe your question really is around what is the message or how is the message different, which is that on social, it's really about, okay, we are talking about these skin health issues and really how can... How can this product integrate into your skin health journey? How can we be helpful? How can we be supportive? And then, in terms of messaging in the boardroom with investors, think it's really about, what is the big vision?
Yes, we are building a skin health, or people know us as a precision skin health company, but... This is actually a platform technology that can change health outcomes across different diseases. And here's how it could make an impact on a global scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which you can, which is crazy. It's so interesting to hear you. It makes a lot of sense because in a way when you're talking to a consumer with a problem, you're trying to communicate.
The exact way in which it can fit into their lifestyle right now. The exact way that it can help make their life better right now and the benefit, the clear benefit. And I know that Nathan and I have talked about this to making the science simple and clear. Mm-hmm.
and not mysterious at all and like ground grounding it in reality and doing it through the lens of like just being yourself and very different than when you're you're really talking about the many different applications for this past this one application and the promise of if you if Nathan can do the science at scale with the testing and all the things you're incorporating in your own unique way. Phages can do so much. We don't even know yet everything that they can do, which is...
Yeah. I'm definitely a lover of science and in the promise and the possibility of science. And so it's like, in a way, it's funny, there is a ground that's similar to the two of them, right? Because you're talking about the science in a simple and direct and clear way. But one is the immediate and the other is about the potential. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, I think with customers and patients, we're getting really granular.
It's like, okay, here's how phages can help your rosacea. Here's how it can help your acne or whatever. But really the potential is, think of any antibiotic you've ever taken in your life. you've probably, mean, I've taken many different antibiotics for many different things. I mean, theoretically you could have taken a phage for it. You could have used a phage for it, but we didn't because the technology wasn't there. But now it is.
imagine a world in which we can precisely target bacterial infections in a way that is safer and more sustainable. Because we can't take antibiotics forever. It's just not sustainable. Yeah, actually, can we talk about that a little bit?
Because I think folks who are listening who may not be as nerdy as you have become and as I become like knowing this, can you explain the problem of bacterial resistance to antibiotics and like why phages are a much more targeted precision approach to like maybe the next century of treating our... health illnesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, let me back up actually and talk about sort of our evolution of like how this actually happened, right?
So in the early 1900s, there were two separate scientists in Europe and they found we're going way back. Yeah, I'll do this in 30 seconds. So. Yeah. No. Okay, so there were two independent European scientists. discovered phage in the early 1900s. They found that these phages could kill bacteria. Now, it was very difficult at that time without technology to identify this phage is for this bacteria, right? So they just threw a bunch of phages and hoped that it worked. So it was starting somewhere.
But then a few decades later in the Western world, we found penicillin and antibiotics and we're like, cool. This works. Like this kills everything and it's cheap to manufacture. So we're like, okay, let's use this. Now the Eastern, like the Eastern black of Europe and Russia did not have access to antibiotics that we had. So they continued in their research with phage because that's really all they had. And so even today, fast forward, you can find phage.
kind of concoctions in pharmacies in Moscow and in Eastern Europe and in Georgia, specifically the country, are phage awareness and phages available. But in the Western world, we've continued to take antibiotics. I'm sure people who are listening have taken at least antibiotics like once. But we take them for a lot of different things. And what happens is they work. It's great that they work, it's good, because it has saved lives.
But when you take an antibiotic, you're killing, yes, the bad bacteria, but also good bacteria that aren't causing any issues. And so you're sort of wiping out your microbiome. Now, generally when doctors prescribe antibiotics, you're taking it for like five days or seven days, which is like a normal course.
But there are many instances, and dermatologists are actually the number one prescribers of antibiotics and they're prescribing antibiotics for chronic issues like acne or eczema or HS, et cetera. you we've met patients who have been on antibiotics for not just five days, seven days, but three months, three years, five years, seven years. And so what ends, just to have clear skin. Right? And that's just one example. This happens in other areas of human health as well.
so the idea is that when you take antibiotics over and over again, the bacteria is almost like weightlifting for them. Right? It's like, OK, first time you killed me, but now I'm going to come back stronger. Now I'm going to come back stronger. And then eventually the fear is that that antibiotic just doesn't work anymore. So and that has happened. So where people become resistant to antibiotics, okay, so now what?
Now you got to call in, now there are stronger and stronger antibiotics, but those have really severe side effects. know, people where, you know, it's gut issues or the number, even with traditional antibiotics, you know, you have kind of gut issues that can occur like in chronic disease. And then you have, you know, even people have lost their hearing. as a side effect from a very strong antibiotic. So it's not sustainable for us to continue to take antibiotics chronically.
And so this is a global health threat, right? The World Health Organization actually released an updated paper. They said that by 2050, over 40 million people will die from an antibiotic resistant infection. So. we need other solutions than antibiotics. And phage is an answer to that because phages also kill bacteria, but they just do it in a way that, I mean, they have naturally evolved to kill specific bacteria.
So if I know that you have X bacteria, we can go out and find a phage or engineer a phage to kill that bacteria. And there have been many cases now where phages have been used under the emergency use authorization to save lives. And so that has been done. It's just now finding a way to bring phages and masks so that more people can use them and for even chronic issues like skin disease and chronic skin issues.
Yeah. And maybe you can explain for folks who aren't familiar with it, like how phages help with like what the relationship is between skincare and your skin microbiome and the products that you all create. I think most people don't even realize like, I might be having X, Y, and Z problem and it could be solved for a very, very simple fix. Well, a lot of skin issues have bacterial component, bacterial roots, right?
A lot of skin issues are there are genetic factors, there's lifestyle factors, there's, you know, your diet, certainly, and also where you live, right? But there's there's always a microbial component at play at some, know, because your skin is the largest organ on your body, in your body, on your body. And Just like you have a gut microbiome, you also have a skin microbiome and it's always living there.
So when you have issues like lesions, acne, Like eczema, like redness, itchiness, flares, like there is, it's really funny. I mean, not funny. This is interesting. Something that we've learned recently is that, so in the case of eczema, for example, there's a genetic component. that enables sort of like these flares, but the redness and itchiness is actually caused by, often caused by a bacteria. And often that bacteria is called S. aureus.
And S. aureus, they actually create this mechanism where they cause you to itch. Because when you itch, what are you doing? You're scratching and you're allowing, you're moving that bacteria for it to proliferate. So, So there are many skin issues where there are different types of bacteria. And that's why antibiotics are widely prescribed in dermatology. And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
And our hypothesis now is that if it's a bacterially rooted issue and you take an antibiotic and it doesn't work, either your bacteria isn't killed by this broad spectrum antibiotic. Like it's just a different bacteria you didn't know about. Or you've taken antibiotics for so long, you've become resistant. And actually we have a test at Parallel. So we've developed this test that actually can test your antibiotic resistance, which is pretty interesting too.
So we can actually kind of predict like how many times you've taken antibiotics in the past. Yeah, is that is seems like the definition of precision to like really know what's going on at the like at the the skin microbiome level and to be able to do something about it to to to make a difference in that in that microbiome long term.
Our time together has rapidly grown to an end, and I'm just wondering what what I have what we have not talked about that you think is important to talk about what I haven't asked you. What's keeping you from achieving your dreams? Such a heavy question. But what should, what haven't we talked about that's important to talk about before we close off our time together? I mean, I think we talked, we covered all the bases in terms of co-founder sort of relationships.
I would say that it's been, I think that if you can find the right co-founder. I think the hard times just become less hard. And so having those hard conversations in the beginning are actually well worth it, even though they can be awkward. Yeah. So I guess that would be one question I would ask you.
It's like if you were giving some advice to a new co-founder pair and they were about to go to, you know, their own Esalen retreat, like what is the what are the questions that you would really want to make sure that they spend the most the most time with? I think it's understanding the non-negotiables, too. What are the things you absolutely need and want? in terms of building the company or in terms of the type of company you want to build, but also in who you are and who you want to be.
I think that's really important. And then I think there's, I think it's just being unafraid to have those. really awkward. I think it's hard. Hard conversations are hard. I don't know. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, it's okay. Like be awkward because it'll save you like so much heartache, I think in the future. so much heartache.
What I hear in that, which is so interesting and important is that it's clear that you have to spend the time knowing yourself and knowing what your needs and wants are. And also be willing to be curious, really curious about those needs and wants of the other person. Like, so it's part of it is just in order to have a good co-founder relationship, it's clear to you've got to do the work to know yourself and also to put on your own oxygen mask.
Yeah, and one thing I'll say too, now that I'm thinking about it is being flexible to because you are going to evolve and like your co-founder is also going to evolve. And I think that's great, but like you just have to make sure you're evolving in the right way. And that means that your values are aligned, you know, at least in some way so that you're not, you know, kind of doing this like over time.
Yeah, how often do you feel like you and Nathan revisit these conversations to make sure that you're staying in sync in those ways? Um, I would say at least, you know, twice a year, like really deep conversations, but I think in hard times, actually more often, like they just kind of come up more spontaneously just because we are going through something hard.
So we'll just like check in like a few months ago, you know, we were having a really kind of, you know, just a moment in time, you know, and it was like, so how are you doing? You know, you okay? You you still you still good like, you know, and then and then just being real about it. Yeah. Yeah. Really what we were talking about before we even started recording, the question we used to ask each other in the pandemic when you said, how are you doing?
And you said it in a way, we all said it in a way that was not just like, hey, how you doing? Hey, good, good, good, good, good. OK, let's get to business. It was like, how are you really doing? Because I want to know because I'm guessing the answer to the question is like complicated. So like, I want to hear all of it. Yeah. creating space for that conversation as often as possible is clearly the lifeblood of a really powerful co-founder relationship, which I think you and Nathan really have.
It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. That feels like a really great place for us to say thank you so much for your time and for making this conversation possible. If there's places on the internet that people should go to learn about the things, what are those places that they should go to learn about things? Yeah, well, if anyone is interested in exploring Parallel Health and Precision Skin Health, you can find us at parallelhealth.io.
And our hero offering is the MD03, which includes the testing and a custom phage. Whoa. That sounds so futuristic, That's absolutely, absolutely nuts. Custom phage. I don't know why that phrase just hits me as like, it sounds like science fiction, but it's not. No, it's real. million phages on you already right now, so... me the one that actually is gonna do the thing that I wanted to do. Absolutely mind blowing. Natalie, I really appreciate you making the time for this conversation.
You are as always a delight to talk to. We covered a lot of wonderful, wonderful things. And so I'm really glad that we made the time for this conversation. Beautiful. Well, we'll call scene. I'll do the thing where I...