We can change the things that are broken, we just start to think outside the box a little bit. You only learn by doing something. I would encourage more people that if they have an idea to see it through, because I'm really glad that I did. Welcome to The Real MF first. Today, we have an exciting gentlemen, Alex Kraft here, he started a company called heave. They have a great piece of
technology. It's going to be changing the industry and helping the construction world marry up the equipment they want to purchase with the people that need to use it and they offer tremendous value on both sides of that equation. Alex Kraft, welcome. Glad to have you, man more to Skype. I do want to laugh at something. You remember our whole conversation about the Bron and Jordan? Yes, totally. So for Christmas, he gets he comes in one day and gives me this Wheaties box with LeBron.
Like, like, Dude, I don't want that piece of garbage. Like the cereal is good. But the package is terrible. So I'll give you I'll give you one as well. So I was on a podcast, the rental journal podcast with a guy named Mark Simonsson. And he's like, you know, he's like, I've been following what you're doing. It's really cool. And, and I noticed you had a podcast. He's like, so I watched an episode. For the first 20 minutes. All you do is talk about basketball. I was like, Yeah, me Come on. It
was entertaining. We were in a flow, I'm not going to cut that. You mean you watch the whole 20 minutes. He did not. He didn't seem to be to take aside on the Michael O'Brien. But he watched he watched the basketball piece I'm not cut. That's pretty good. If we could solve all the construction world's problems the same way weekend, basketball would be in really good shape. So tell me a little bit about yourself. Myself, I'm a first time
business owner. My my first real job out of college was with an equipment dealer. I started as an equipment salesman starting in 2004. So like, I follow your content a ton. And I've learned a lot from you guys about the GC role and you know, contractor role. So I was always on the other side where we were supplying the equipment to those contractors. And those GCS. I started, you know, learning the hard way how to sell equipment, renting equipment. For a Volvo
dealer. We were the fourth largest dealer in the country, a company called Flagler. I worked my way through the company, got into management, manage a sales team. Then from 2017 to 2019. I ran it, and then in 2020, we sold it to another Volvo dealer. And that's when I started, heave. So I've been in equipment, my entire professional career.
Yeah. So how did how did you transition from actually like distributing a known product like Volvo, and a big marketing QA, to thinking, Oh, here, I'm going to put this here platform, maybe you can publish quickly what he is, but how did you go from How did you create he all of a sudden, like, this is where I got to pivot to but tell us what he is verse. It's funny how, and I know that you've probably gone through
this too. Like, if you would ask me what he was a year ago, it would have been different, I would have used different words. And you learn, there's so many things you learned, you learned the challenge of wording positioning strategy. So if you're an equipment salesperson all heave is, is I get a text alert on my phone that says a customer in my area WANTS TO BUY A TRACK skid loader or an excavator. Click on it, I see who the customer is. Enter my quote, and I'm done. That's all
he is. Now from a customer, if I'm one of those contractors, when I have to buy or rent something, instead of like looking up who the salesman is, I have to call or the dealership, all I do is I go to heave Ko and I enter my details. I I'm such a such customer, I need to rent an excavator post. And then I just get alerts when dealers quote, in one place, I can compare those quotes. And I can decide from there who I want to go solid.
And this may sound silly, but nobody's no one else is doing this. No one really attacked it from that angle. And yes, I mean, it is that simple. And in the very beginning, most people were like how is that not existed? The why came from just my knowledge in the industry. Like it was kind of crazy to me, like starting as a salesperson and just still like being involved in a dealer at the end, how manual the businesses and we were guilty of
it ourselves. Salespeople are taught to just go drive to the job site and try to talk to somebody And then drive to the customer's office and try to talk to somebody like there's very few scheduled meetings. And as a manager, I had been in too many of those awkward meetings where you show up with a salesperson you sit down, and the salespersons like, Hey, do you see the gator game this weekend? Customers like, Yeah, I did. Hey, do you go fishing this weekend? Yeah, I did. Okay,
cool. Do you need anything? Customers? Like? No, not right now. Okay. And then we would leave? Why does this exist? Like, why are we doing this? That sounds like so much fun. Right. And it's just the cold calling piece. Like, it's not valuable for either side. It's a waste of a salesman's time, and it's always to the customers. So that's the role and the gap that we're trying to fill, we went through the same exact
experience. And it was because of my past thought process of go somewhere, who's your customers, you got to prospect, you got to beat their door down, what do you need, you just let you fall into the same mentality of what your past had created. And it wasn't really like a you realize it doesn't work. And you marry
that up to a solution. And what I really love about what you guys are doing, and it's a similar journey that I felt like we went on with amortization planning is until you realize you've got to give first and pour value into your customer first, then they will reciprocate that back to you when they need you and on their own timeline. And they'll appreciate it so much more. Totally. That's what I think is genius about what you guys are doing and how you're doing it.
Now, I appreciate that. And you're just getting a little bit back to like, your original question of like, how, why hasn't this existed, is that I think the industry is not very well known. From the outside. And like in some of these industries, it requires such intimate knowledge of how things work, that for something to really like, catch, hold it, there needs to be credibility, and someone who has like a lot of inside knowledge to actually
build it. Like I think there have been some types of solutions that have been tried to have been rolled out in this industry. And if it's like a San Francisco, like Silicon Valley type, who's coming in, I can only imagine the pushback that they would receive, just like not knowing the industry. And so I think that kind of helped us now, believe me as a new company, you get a ton of pushback anyway, it doesn't matter if I have been in the industry for you know, 18 years.
But I can I can imagine that it might be easier for us, because of my knowledge of how dealers work. Having lived the life of a salesperson laying, when I talk to salespeople, you know, I don't have to tell them that, hey, I've been doing this, like, there's just terminology that I use that where they're like, oh, okay, he knows what the day to day is like, and he knows kind of how crazy it is. That's um, that's a big part of what I love about this podcast. And I'm so glad you said it so
succinctly. Alex, I love that we're able to bring these stories of people who are in the industry, who see a pain point, because when you're in the industry living in a day it can become you can become blind to it. And so you had that moment, that insight moment, where you were, you're like, this is this is broken for everyone involved. And I'm going to have to do
something radical to fix it. And and leading by example showing there's we can we can change the things that are broken, if we just start to think outside the box a little bit. And those are the those those are the stories that I think are the real power of this podcast is doing things differently. Absolutely. And everybody says it thinking outside the box is something that's talked about all the time. But how it's rare that it's actually done.
Yeah, you can't just think outside the box, you actually have to do something outside the box, too. And that includes not only the idea, but the actions, the behavior, the thought process, the logic, you have to challenge all inside the box thought processes if you're going to really be outside the box. And if you're trying to do
something cool, great. If you're trying to do something cool, that also brings a ton of value and changes what the status quo as you can't just you can't have a great new idea and do the same things over and over again. That makes makes no sense. Totally. Absolutely agree. Can we talk real quick about just like how we get more people knowledgeable about the construction industry? Obviously Aaron, which I think is the king of this. It's to me it's gonna sound simple, but I just it's
got to tell the stories. Like I think there's tremendous pride in what these people do. They're completing jobs. And what jumps to mind is you see no movie Office Space? Yeah, I think of that, like, so much of the other business world is TPS reports. Like, and I think that's where the construction jobs. The the industry falls short a little bit. It's like, like I had a really young guy, he was a really impressive guy from American Bridge, John Yates on
my podcast. He was he was like, 33 years old, and he was the lead person in charge of building like a $60 million bridge here in St. Pete. Like, that's fascinating. Like, we don't, they don't tell the stories, the NEF of like, Hey, you those 400 families that have a house in this neighborhood that happened because of these
three companies. And like, I wish I was handy, I'm not, but I would have tremendous pride if I was, you know, a part of that, that housing development that bridge, it's weird, because I guess a dealer, we used to try to get customers, you know, for testimonials, right? You know, selfishly, obviously, hey, you used our Volvo machines to help do that. It always kind of struck me a little weird word contracts didn't really want to
talk about themselves. And I think that's what's necessary in order to change the narrative on the industry. I couldn't agree more. My husband was an H back contractor for 20 years. And when we went up to North Dakota, where he had worked for years, we drove around Willis, and he was like that hospital, that school, that bank, I was part of building those. And there is a sense of pride that comes along with
that. And we don't do a good job as an industry of telling that side of the story and a tremendous amount of opportunity that if you come up in the trades, and you learn the trade, and you're paying attention to the problems finding solutions for them, you can you can be a business owner, you can you can put food on the table like you can put food on the table just working in trade, there's there's good money and trade careers, if you're willing to to invest and get your
certifications and put in the time. But you also have the opportunity to open up your own business and solve problems and do things your own way. There's so much opportunity here that we're just not talking about, right? And so much of the business world like you know, we've all have friends that work in finance, or whatever. And it's like, hey, what do you what do you do? And they tell you their title or like, well, what does that mean? What do you what do you do? Like, nobody's sitting
there? Like, hey, I keep this killer Excel spreadsheet. I just did. Like you, you would not believe the formulas and this thing that no one ever know. Right? And it's like, here, you got guys who are like, hey, yeah, we barged in this material. And we built this $60 million bridge so people could get from, you know, Tampa, Sarasota, like, I might want to talk about that. It's fun, because you think about the construction industry.
Unlike others, you can start at the bottom of that industry and go to almost any path you possibly want. Whether it's service, whether it's sales, whether it's entrepreneurship, whether it's finance, whether it's hard construction, whether it's project management, I mean, what other industries, can you take all of those jobs, all those types of jobs, all those types of skills, and stay in the
same business. Like if you're going to cut your teeth, something and you want to be an entrepreneur, there might be an argument, like go grab a job, as a laborer working for somebody, figure that out. And then you have whatever entrepreneurship you want, you can create a technology company around it, you could create a an actual construction company to do it better than someone else's, you could create. I mean, you could just do whatever you want.
Right? And so I think it's really interesting that as you bring that up, are you talking and made me just put those pieces together, like in that industry, you can really go any direction you possibly want. Absolutely. And if you're a young woman or a person of color, the opportunities even greater if you get your certifications, you know, because government jobs want to fill a certain quota on
that. I mean, there's a lot and and according to industry research, the pay gap between men and women in the construction industry is one of the thinnest of all industries. We are paid equal in this industry a lot closer than a lot of other industries. But we don't tell that story. Instead, what happens is people think about construction and they think it's a it's a guy's field. You know, it's tough guys. We can't We can't get in there. We can't play that game. And it's
totally untrue. We have women who are who are clients. I've talked to all kinds of women at the conventions we go to and hear on the podcast. There's so much opportunity in this industry for women. It's just the outside world doesn't know that. And that's our fault in the industry. That's our fault. We are not doing a good job of changing that air. Couldn't agree more. Right. So transitioning to
heaven. industry perspective, one of our passions at mobilization funding in line with trying to change the narrative, you see so many different relationships between all the parties, whether it's the owner, whether it's the developer or the general contractor, the prime contractor, the subcontractor, labor, sub only material supplier, everybody has channeled themselves into this position, you know, and if it was a basketball team, and everyone was trying to play
their role, it might work. But the reality is, you all have to work together, there's really only one mission, it's each project. And if we hear us GCS constantly tell us things like it's about performance. Performance matters the most to me, of course, I care about price, but performance leads the way. And we're talking to subcontractors, like GCS only care about price, they just want the lowest possible price and
squeeze and hammer us down. If that's the if that's what's really people's thoughts are and but we know that's not true, then then now, we are now empowered to have to talk about that. And if we don't, we're not helping anybody. And so that's why we're launching this do your park campaign. And what I'm curious is for you, when you thought of here, how do you how do you guys position here to fit into that same guidance and structure when you're speaking to all sides?
Absolutely. And that's the tough part about like, the a platform or people referred to as a marketplace is that you have multiple sides. And so I think, to like the real power, and what you're doing, is you're helping educate everyone on just the totality of the relationship, right? Like, cuz we would get into a situation a lot like, hey, this customer, the other 75 days past invoice for those
rentals? Well, we didn't realize that they're dealing with materials, and they're dealing with labor, and like they've got a tough GC, like, so I love what you guys are doing with that, because I think there's a real educational component to from our product, what we're trying to do is just make everything easier. You know, there's a ton of effort. Traditionally, that
is required. On both sides, right, there's a ton of effort, like we kind of kind of described like, if you're a salesperson, I have to drive here, then here, then here, then here, I've read some stats the other day, 97% of business, the business, phone calls, and voicemail. And so if you're a customer, and now you have a machine down on your job site, and you got three guys standing around, all right now I'm in scramble mode, I gotta go call this guy voicemail, call this
rep, voicemail. What if I'm a smaller customer, and I don't really read a lot of equipment, or I don't really buy it, who do I call? You know, and so the effort is greatly reduced, where I can just go to one website, and then now everything's going to come to me. And now I can just go back and do my job. Yeah, it's efficiency, it's time. And the other thing that that I'm hearing is transparency
and greater communication. And that's such a huge part of what we've put in our educational materials regarding GC sub relationships is it's about communication, about putting away those stereotypes and coming to the conversation with fresh eyes and communicating more effectively. I'm curious because of the role he plays, kind of in between those two parties and your own experience
in the construction industry? Do you have a particular approach to no to communications and business that has been working for you that you could share with the audience? Are you familiar with Chris the Chris Voss No, never split the difference and always material?
Yeah. Yeah. Like I was, I was listening to a podcast he was on the other day, and he put it upright butcher it a little bit, but like, what's so crazy is like, you know, so a lot of people are like, Well, I'm just gonna kind of lie to the customer, as long as I have enough time that I can sort it out. Right? Because they're afraid of just like upfront being direct. And he's like, you know, there's so much power in telling someone the hard truth
from the very beginning. And that's the only way because I've seen it firsthand. Where like, there's pressure to like, tell people what they want to hear, and it only works out negatively. For everyone. In my experience, I made this mistake myself, especially early in sales is you make the mistake of thinking you're actually good at telling that lie. Because
you're not. Yeah, I shouldn't say lying, because they're just not telling the truth or not telling the whole truth or just leaving a important piece out. They don't they might not necessarily think or know you're lying, but they know that something's missing and something doesn't feel right. And if something doesn't feel right, they're walking away. Without any of the words you said they're just walking away with the feeling of something
didn't feel right. And it's that feeling of something didn't feel right that you now have pasted across your forehead because you're the person that were looking at when they had that feeling that you're going to be almost nearly impossible for you to overcome. And it doesn't matter what sales school you go to, it doesn't matter what words you put in order until you can replace that feeling they have with a different one, you're almost done. Totally. It has to be direct,
honest communication. The only way, what is there, if there was something specific that you see happen on a project or on a construction site, from all of your experience, that if you can say, you know, what, if, if this particular party or that particular party, in these certain meetings, or wherever, would just do this, everything would run much smoother?
I'll ask you, because I think you made a great point in the beginning, why don't they view it as, hey, this project, everybody's on the same team, because everybody is so focused on their their part, you know, cover my own ass kind of situation, if they could just come together, like, Hey, we are that we're an all star team, right? On this project, if everybody would, would just treat it as such, where basically, they work for the same company for that project.
It makes sense to me that that would be because what good is it? If you're one of the subs and you did your job? And the other three? Didn't? You know, you gotta have everybody. Yeah, I mean, I think everybody that where it starts is everybody's out for themselves a little bit, and they're playing a little bit of defense, the nature of the world makes them feel like they're on attack. And the only way they can be non attack is to be playing
defensive role. You also have to be a little empathetic, you have to be humble, you have to be direct, you have to communicate what your needs are. And if you're if you're communicate that you can get on this job and knock it out, and no problem or
per the schedule. But deep down inside, you know that there's no way you're going to be able to put three crews on that job to meet that schedule, because there's no way you're going to be able to make the payroll to do it, you have to really try to invoice ahead of the game and do something else. When you're it's not your fault that is not getting it done. But it is your fault that you are disingenuous, and it's not going to get done. And it's a snowball running
downhill. That's why you gave the opportunity to this, the general contractor and the other trade partners and say, hey, look, it's gonna be hard for me to meet this schedule, until I can get a couple 100 grand coming off this job, or at least you're my first invoice. And here's the reasons why you now have empowered them to help you, right. Whereas if you don't do that, you really have no one to blame but yourself, they may not help you,
no doubt. But if they really want the project to succeed, which I know to be true, again, high 90 99.9% want the project to succeed, they're gonna have a vested interest to help you if you are part of it. Second thing I would say is the general contract or the other trade partners. If someone does step out to that, meet them where they are, don't crush them for all you misrepresented. This is the reason why don't do this this bullshit or whatever else might happen? Don't do that.
Really listen to them. And if there is a way for you to help them, try, if you can't, then tell him you can't and why you can't and then let's make adjustments to the schedule, then, who knows? Maybe you can do something else. It's like, hey, three weeks, I can meet that schedule, because I'm supposed to get paid from somewhere else, or, um, I can meet the schedule, I do have a lending partner. And this is what it's going to require for me to get this lending partner
on the job. You know, there's there's solutions. They're there. Everyone's trying to fix a common problem. Here. What's interesting, too, is when you say, Hey, I messed up, like, typically is the end of it. Right? Everyone's always afraid of like getting yelled at. And but when people are just like, hey, my bad, I messed up like you don't typically take a
10 minute tongue lashing. It's only that only happens when somebody is constantly trying to make excuses for because there's nothing really to say when somebody is taking accountability or something everybody's doing is focused on trying to get the solution, right. And if you're a person who just whip someone after they've been honest, and you're just you're just jerk.
Exactly, right, we talked about that all the time about how it actually takes an extreme amount of confidence to be vulnerable enough to say, Hey, I screwed this up. And now I need to fix
it. It's interesting because we just got an email today about a upcoming webinar in the construction industry and everything about it was contractors play games with the schedule, here's how you defend yourself against the games that contractors play in that with their schedules and I sent it to Scott and I said look at the
language in here. Yeah, this is part of the problem is that we we position ourselves within the industry as adversaries everything we say about each other is I have to cover my own ass I can't trust this guy. And so we've created an industry wide culture of only protect myself don't trust anyone else and it's you have to tear down on him. You have a great phrase I I'm
surprised you didn't use it. I was gonna put a bet a million dollars you're gonna say, but I use it all the time and one time on and we were talking something similar. She's like, this is punching down like if you punch down like it's so weak it is. And it's exactly what that is.
And so if you really comprehend yourself, I'm trying to fix what's already broken or solution like, it's just a waste of energy to do that, I take that philosophy from stand up comedy actually stand up comedians have that philosophy of you don't punch down. And the idea is that if you're making a joke, you can tell any joke you want. As long as you're not making fun of the victim in this situation, you're making fun of the assailant and the situation making fun of the
person who has more power. No one wants to believe they're the schoolyard bully. But we do act that way in certain situations. And like if you're the general contractor, and you think your position with the owner is going to be jeopardized because of this subcontractors, actions, yes, it's easy to fall into that mentality of tongue lashing, right? Like you might slip in
that moment. But what's most important is that if you do you know, you put on your cowboy boots, and you walk up and you say, I'm sorry, you didn't deserve that, let's solve this problem. There's nothing in this world that can't be solved. If we own our mistakes. And we come to the table together. Scott had a LinkedIn comment about GCS and subs in the relationship. And someone had a great point about how they used to sit on the same side of the table. And now the GC sits on the owner side table.
And I know that that's metaphorical. But the metaphor matters in your head, right? If you believe that you're on opposite sides of the table, you will approach every problem from opposite sides of the table. So as an like somebody who's not necessarily involved in the GC, so relationship that much do you see some GCS now using that as a differentiator for themselves? Like, hey, subs like working for
this GC? Because hey, we don't sit on the same site with the owner like we're partnering with subs, or is it more gravitating towards what autumn had said? It's a more GCS, right? No, we're with the money. Yeah, well, I don't think it's from the premise of necessarily being adversarial from a GC like GC, I'm against you, because I'm the so I think it's more of them. This is my customer, the owner or the developer, and I'm going to try to do the best service for my owner and
customer. And I have to contract this scope of work with you subcontractor said that we're on opposite sides of an agreement,
a contractual agreement. So we're on opposing parties, just by definition, it takes a nuance to say, okay, despite all that, though, you're going to help me give my customer the best experience that I need to, this is the experience I want to give my customer, and what can I do for you to help you give me the part that I need from you to make this experience gray, which in turn makes your experience
great. If that was the philosophical thought process behind it, you could cut through the fact that you have a contract and you're on opposing parties and and I have your money, and you're going to do this work. And when I say you did it good, I can give it to you, that's there. And you can't avoid that. Because if you do have to go do good work, you have to go perform, you have to do good work, and then everybody gets paid. That's what we all
sign up for. By the way, that's what the GC signs up for to, you know, the owner, or the owners financing isn't given any money away off that job until somebody does something. So you'd be lying on the other parties, the general contractor, project manager and sub to frame how they want to communicate and work and it takes effort, I think to explain, hey, here's my goal for this project. Here's how you can help me I want you to succeed too. What do you need, communicate what your
goals are? Don't guess. And the same thing for the subcontractor they need to do the same thing for the GC, tell them what your expectations are. Tell him what pisses you off. Tell him Hey, don't do any of these things. This infuriates me, you know, and I won't what infuriates you, I won't do any of those things and then do it. Right. All right, Alex, three quick questions, quick answers. But take your time whenever you need
a guy. Oh, boy, what is the one thing that you believe determines a business's success or failure? Failure? There's no one answer to it. It depends on where you are in your process for where we are today. I think the most important thing is understanding who you are, who your customers are. And then what your niches and we learned that lesson. From when we started the company, I think it's natural to seek validation. Like, you want people to see your idea. You want people to be like, Oh,
that's a great idea. Or maybe I shouldn't say you, I, I thought like, hey, everybody would embrace. And it was it's wrong. And so what you what I learned from researching and learning about all other companies, is that they identified like, Hey, this is the profile of who we can help. This is the profile of the customer that the pain point we're solving. And now let's just go find more of those people. because if you don't have that identity and have that understanding, then you can't
execute anything. And then you know, everything else goes hard work and persistence and grit. I'm a huge believer in all that. But until you identify like, look, this is who we are, this is the problem we're solving. And this is the group of customers. I don't think any of the other stuff really matters. What you just said is exactly the answer. I mean, if that is the one golden nugget to take out of this, write that in there. Second question for you.
But what advice do you wish you had at the start of your career that you learn best by doing so? You know, when I was young, I think when you work, some of these companies, you have ideas, and you're like, hey, let's do this. And somebody is always telling you why something won't work. And so I had a tendency to not try new things, because I didn't want to fail, I didn't
want to look like an idiot. So that would have been the best advice is like, it's okay to not be good at something, it's Oh, you only learn by doing something like you want to, you can read all the management books in the world, you only become a good manager by actually managed people. Right? Like, having a team under you seeing your different personalities, making mistakes, managing people then learning like, hey, how I motivate this person is different than how I
motivate this person. You only learn by doing it, and it's okay to make mistakes. And the other thing that I would have loved to know, that kind of dovetails with it is that I think we look at really successful people, I think they have all the answers. And it's really empowering to know that they don't. And as like, I progressed in my career, I was around more successful people, and you come to realize, like, hey, they don't have the answer. What they do is they figure it out. And now they have
a depth of experience. So they they can draw on their experience. So they don't panic, they don't you lash out at other people, but the experience allows them to take a step back and then figure it out. And that's when you have a new company in a business, we're in figured out. So is there any one piece of wisdom or advice, you want everybody that listen to this today to walk away from me? I don't know, you starting a business was not something that I always like, had this goal of
doing, I think, risk taking. And you know, I think it's talked about a lot. But when it comes down to it, a lot of people don't. And so what I would maybe say is that it's incredible. It's it's really scary, and it's very lonely. But it is incredibly I don't know, it gives you so much energy. Because you're doing something different. You're following a belief, it's unbelievably liberating, to be able to chart
your own course. And I would encourage more people that if they have a passion for a sad, isn't it have a, an idea to see it through? Because I'm really glad that I did. And it wasn't an easy decision. And that's what also what I would say is that, you know, you read so many stories about people where there's like, oh, so and so was a 12 year old entrepreneur, he, you know, hired three kids in his neighborhood to shovel snow.
And he was always destined to be an entrepreneur, like you don't have to be that driven entrepreneur type to actually start a business, you just have to see a problem believe in what you can do believe in your solution, and then just act you have to do it, there's no, there's no amount of planning that you do beforehand, you just you have to jump in the deep end and do it. And even if you're not starting a business, do it inside your own company, you can do it you can do a great as a
leader inside the business. If someone is pushing back against you telling you it's a bad idea. We can't do it. Don't just take that answer. Go back, create a plan and tell them why inside that business. It can work and show them be a good solid leader
inside your business. You do not have to be an entrepreneur, you do not have to take all the extra risk to be a great leader, successful person who drove all this tremendous value inside an organization you can have everything you ever wanted and some right inside an organization, you do not have to do it on your own and take all those risks if that's not for you, but you can't keep your idle and except the answers that don't feel good to you and your heart and you're just you're not
providing any real value. I think what's really important in those scenarios is that when when people know within the company that you give a or I was gonna curse but you can totally, totally die from Philadelphia. So it's really hard for me to not use certain words, but when people know genuinely that you care about them I'm succeeding, those things happen a lot more easily. And that's one of the things that I learned. I think we all do this too, where it's like,
should I delegate this? No, no, no. I'm gonna do it myself because it'll get done quicker. And you know, I don't want to waste time like try explain it to somebody else. And it's like, no, no, no, if you just take the time and you invest in other people, then you can that's how you build this team where you have more all these people contributing, but the when you when they know that you care about them do a good job. changes the whole done. I mean, I couldn't agree with
you more. Alex. Man, I really appreciate you taking the time. This has been awesome. Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity to come on and talk shop and let's catch up outside of a pod here for a beer sometime soon. Yes. Can talk basketball. Yes. Thank you so much, Alex. You're like no worries. I appreciate the time, and we'll catch up soon. Appreciate you a lot, everybody. I thank you guys for joining us. This has been a great hour for me. I've learned a lot. I hope
you guys have to. And we appreciate all you guys have done for us. Thank you guys. Hey, everyone. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please consider subscribing and leaving us a review. reviews help more people find the show. If you'd like to learn more about mobilization funding, visit us at mobilization funding.com Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next one.