Confidence is built by competence, you'll fail three times at final use festival. And it's not a little bit more confidence.
When you do see a problem, you don't know necessarily how you're going to solve it, you just have the confidence to start and know that you will do it. Welcome, everybody, you are listening to the real MF first podcast. I have a great guest with me today. I'm super excited to join with us. She is very passionate about women in construction, as we are also mental health and construction. And obviously you guys know those are two very dear topics
to autumn. And I, of course, I have my co host autumn solvent with us. And I would like to introduce Shannon to Alaska to our audience. Welcome, Shannon.
Thank you so much for having me here. And I I love talking about those two things. So mental health and skilled trades, my favorite topics?
Yes, we're excited to talk to you about both of those. But I think your story is really interesting, too. I have so many different questions for you. But let's just dive right into it. And if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about your story, how your your journey into the trades and into electrical contracting and your construction is fascinating. Tell us a little bit about in your own words.
Well, it's probably what started my my passion for mental health. And people I originally went to school for childbirth work, like so many people out of high school, I applied the traditional route and went to no schooling and education system here and got myself in debt and got myself a piece of paper that, you know, I got a minimum wage job at which is fabulous, I love my job, I worked at a shelter for homeless youth and it was one of my favorite jobs.
You know, just watching people go from streets to have to housing and change their lives. It's it's a beautiful experience, but sadly, you know, one that does not pay very well. And so, you know, I had to maintain what was my college job, it was just supposed to be a temporary thing, something that, you know, allowed me to do homework at work. And so I worked at a financial institution, and I had to maintain that job while working Child and Youth Work doing kind
of both. And slowly that turned into my full time job, you know, 10 years later, now, I've moved my way up from just a customer service rep management all the way to head office, you know, working as a training coordinator, and you think 10 years in an industry get paid a little bit more than $41,000. But that was my salary, which is
like $20 an hour, not a lot. And you know, really hard to what I like to say thrive on like, single incomes these days, trying to, you know, split a house one on one, it's very challenging, and $40,000 does not help you do that. It just put me in more debt, sadly. And so you know, and it wasn't my dream job wasn't something that I just kind of default, right. It was a job I had, I started searching, I started looking for jobs and and you know, what I realized at the time is that I
was applying for jobs. But based on experience, I was competing with people with experience, not a piece of paper, like all those qualifications, you go to school for those that like they're not a barrier to entry. A lot of them there are some but many are just a piece of paper. So I was competing against social service workers, public service workers, psychiatry, major psychology majors, Tas EA is like the list goes on, because there's no
barrier to entry. And, you know, I struggled, I found like, The pay wasn't great for any of these jobs. And my friend at the time, purchased a home. And he was wanting to rip out his kitchen. And I was like, that's a that's a pretty drastic decision day too. But we did in fact, have a kitchen, it led to two bathrooms, a basement, and like it was those experiences that I was like, I like I like this, I noticed that the competence and the satisfaction I got when I completed one of
these kind of home projects. I was like, I think I could do this and get like for an eight hour shift, right? Like I think and I know skilled trades work or do really get paid well, I just never thought it was something that I would get paid to do it. So it kind of at that time, I was about 29 years of age and I was like I'm, I'm thinking I need to make a change. You have more year, still 30 years of employment
ahead of me realistically. So like might as well find something you love because for me, it's like you spend way too much time at work. You spend more time at work than you do at home. You spend a lot of time to find that marriage person so better to spend a lot of time finding that dream job because it's longer than marriage in most circumstances. Right. So
find something that you love. So I made a change and I found a program here in local city Hamilton and it was through the YWCA help get green women from you know, bring women him into the skilled trades. And so it kind of started my journey to where I am now.
That's amazing. I love all the reasons that you Well, I love the things that you realize were paint causing the pain, the realization you had to the courage to act. And what perceives to be sometimes a couple of steps backwards, becomes such a propelling forward. And I mean, now you're, how many years removed? Are you from that one decision that you made to go back and get trades? How long was it that
I guess I started there, 29 to 33, or four or five, depending on when I started, and so four ish years, and I can say now as a third year, I'm a third year electrical apprentice, and I make more now as a third year electrical person I did the entire, you know, my entire 20s. And now I have the potential for a lot of potential, I have pensions, I have great health benefits. And so like what I also realized, and I didn't realize so much when I, you know, because we pick a job
because of money. Ultimately, if I think we didn't have to work, we would, you know, we would find our passions at home and do those, why would we go somewhere to my so, you know, I That's the original reason, I enjoyed it enough, and it paid well. And while I started working, I actually like realized so much more about the skilled trades. You know, as a person who came from Child and Youth Work and
mental health. You know, I heard the benefits of physical activity and, you know, for your mental health to keep you just keeps you somehow healthier. I'm the one of the first people to say I struggle with some mental health myself. And so this helps keep routine helped keep me, you know, physical and mental
health. And I also realize that like, you can I know, as a woman, I don't know about all men, but as a woman, I have heard several times over my lifetime, these two statements, and they're so frustrating. Well, maybe Honey, if you just had a little bit more confidence, you know, maybe if you just had a bit more self esteem, like those are so frustrating to me, because it's like, just go pick the bananas
off the shelf. Know, Like, where do you find those two items like, and so it took some counseling, it's taken many years, but competence is built by competence in by, you know, taking that sippy cup when you're a little kid, and you know, you fail three times. But finally, you're successful, you build a little bit of confidence. And the thing I think, in today's day and age is people stop trying things. You know, we spend way too much time on these gadgets as though this
is experiencing life. And we're not experiencing life and building confidence. Every day I go to work, I am challenged with something new, something that I normally in my head, like, oh, I can't do this. I don't say My head's going. But by the time I'm finished the process, I I'm so proud of my I just get that. And it's built a little bit more
confidence. And it sends me home with a whole bunch of transferable skills, where I can now yesterday, I but uh, you know, I would have never thought but I'd like battery and in a lot more and writing a lot more. And then I started looking into calibrate the calibrator and how it works and kind of, I would have never done that before. And that's not electrical, that's
totally different. So it gives you these transferable skills that are you can use to save money use around the home, and help you build confidence and all things I found, while I started this journey
with you now that Janome what those two things are, that people you're not born with them their skills, you learn those skills, and you sharpen those skills. And just like anything else, if you don't work on those skills, they'll go away, they'll you can bring them to you and you can lose them.
And what you just articulated is so perfect, because and it's exactly what the skilled trades do, is you are doing things you don't want to do, you're doing things that you're uncomfortable doing, and you're executing them and then building confidence in the fact of that process. That's
what you build process. And then of course, over the time you build that confidence, you build your own self esteem, so that when you do see a problem, you don't know necessarily how you're going to solve it, you just have the confidence to start and know that you will do it 100% Figure it out. And that's exactly the best articulation I've ever heard outlined from what those two things are and how you could do it in a job or workplace or any
combination of both. Like, like kudos to you for articulate that. That was great.
Well, it's taken me many years and many struggles to you know, again, I struggled with my own mental health competence and all of those things and it's from talking to other people, you know, learning through experience, trial and error, but the skilled trades is has done nothing but you know, build me up to a better more rounded person where I can take on any task and like you said, like, even if I don't know how to do
it. I have a team full of people that I resources now I can call them and I'm not so afraid Ain't that? No, I thought about it yesterday, half of the time I'm sending my car to a machine shop or something where an apprentice is working on it. Well, I'm an apprentice that's competent. You know, sometimes my car gets back in, it's in the, you know, I found, you know, nuts and stuff
stripped. So, you know, how, how am I, they're not any better than myself, I'm a competent person I can take this task on. It's just a different cast today. And anyways, I could go on.
It's such a, it's such a mindset shift. And I love how you talked about how so many young girls and women are, are given that message of like, well, if you just use a little bit more, I love the idea of like, you just go pick it off this, right, like buy it, the and so I and I think that we need more women in construction. And we need more diversity in construction for one thing, just to solve the labor challenge, but also because the new perspectives and fresh ideas are, are instrumental to
innovation. I loved your LinkedIn post about finding clothing that fit the jacket that was actually made for women. And it made me because I had never considered it right. And I feel like there's probably a lot of things in the industry, that when we say yes, there should be more women in the industry, we're not thinking through. Were thinking of the big challenges like, oh, you might get harassed or something. But what are the what are the small challenges that we're not
talking about? That that we should be highlighting, we should be solving?
Well, and I think, you know, you said like, harassment is still a thing, I am so blessed to say, I have not experienced that. But I get messages all the time on how to deal with it and be told I'm not 100%? Sure. Because, like, it's such a, like, I know what the right answer is, right? We all know what the right answer is. But how to actually execute that in any given situation is so challenging. So that's a big
problem still today. I think hiring as well, you know, just having as a contractor that competence to take on a woman. And sometimes I think misperceptions I think there's a lot of, you know, lack of understanding about what strengths and skills women can bring, right. And so I go to work, and they just see me as weak woman, because it's all about physical strength, right.
But I have a lot of other assets that you might not think about, like, my hand fits into puzzles that you cannot fit into, right, and now I'm saving the time and money of drywall painting, like mudding. Because your choice if you're you will just smash the die watch. Right? Right. That's that that was the alternative. And so there is a benefit to me, they don't necessarily see that.
So we need to kind of get onto the employee level and kind of really start, you know, educating the current staff that you know, there is a benefit to us, women being on the on the site. Now, along with tons of other things I'd like to talk about, sometimes about women at the end of the day are different than that we are different, you know, we are they animals in some degree, right. And so naturally, our traits have
evolved. Back in the day men were hunters, we were gatherers, men sat on forests, and they watched for deer for an eight hour shift. How boring is that? Right? They had to go into this little nothing box. And just like I would go crazy, or women at home, we were, you know, taking care of children in laws, the community picking berries, kill you all these different things that have evolved us to
have different skills. So I'm not saying neither one of us are better than the other, but we definitely definitely have different skills. And it's when we're together, that we're stronger. And so that that's, you know, understanding that maybe women have a little bit more organization, you know, Bill delegate, because they have the fort, they're already thinking ahead, where man just like deer, I'm just looking on that project deer. And that is, you know, often sometimes, you
know, the case. So women and men have strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, when we start educating people about that, then there'll be more openness for women. And I think even further than just the current, you know, people, you know, out in the workforce, I think we really, really, really need to educate our young people. And I mean, young people who will start Oh, teenagers No, I mean 234 We, when we're reading the books, we're reading them books
that often do not instill. You know, they instill confidence in beauty, not an ability, right? They're like, Oh, you're beautiful. Oh, look at that girl. She's so it's not like she just built that she is but you know that we need to change the image that we're sending young people and that's boys and girls like it's funny because I have a nephew who's five. I'm the only actual registered construction
worker in my family. I definitely have some skilled family workers who do at home stuff, but I'm the only one goes door to get paid for it. He knows I have a bunch of tools he loves anti Shannon's tools he's gotten tools from Shannon well one thing still break around the house. It's often like goes to the one of the boys were a banker fix it into Shannon's here right now. I can fix that
light bulb for you. Like, like I And so he he has, you know, this conditioning still happening at school as much as you know, it's work countering at home with, you know, real life experiences, he still goes to school and it's there reading them books, they're telling them stories. They're saying girls are, you know, the not passing down the right message young people.
Yeah, totally girls are teachers and nurses and boys grow up to be presidents and doctors and, and you know, to your point and we don't show them as growing up to be construction workers we don't show them growing up to be skilled trade workers in a way that is positive and empowering either gender actually, we don't show boys or girls that that's and I totally agree with you that we should be doing it when they're in kindergarten, you should play.
I've written like a little I'm working on a book it takes time. But you know, for example, you know, I those little like limericks arrives as a kid that I was told, like, I'm a little teapot that tells me I'm a woman and should be in the kitchen. But I rewrote it. And I wrote it a little different. You know, where it says, I'm a little female, or even bold. Here's my hammer. Here's my drill. When I hear the men don't hear me shout, look out boys. I'll figure it out.
Lessons change, yes.
And so it's like, boys, don't worry, I got this like, and you know, we don't need anybody else. But myself. And that's the truth. We all are competent human beings, if taught. But if you don't teach us, if you don't give us opportunities, you don't educate us, and we're never going to do it. And that's where we need to go is right to the root, the
kids, the analogy that I can give you when I was growing up was, here's a bike, we're going down this like hill that has everything and anything in its path. There's no chance of going down this hill without falling off your bike. And either it's just a degree of getting hurt. It's like, don't do it. You're a wuss, you're this do that, like be a man be a man. I'm like, Ah, if I just want to be smart, like that looks like it's gonna hurt me.
So what do I do I get on the bike, I go down it, I hit the washing machine with my handlebars. It flies me off into the bushes, and I break my arm and have like, all kinds of bruises. I'm like, but that sucks. Like, am I a man? No, because that was terrible. Like, I didn't want to do that. Like, I don't mind playing tackle football, I could get it, I could get into that. But this was just terrible. And so it's the same thing you like, and it's not like just my friends.
I'm gonna be like, your uncle will tell you that just go for it. I'm gonna go okay, cool. And I go down there, and I'm bad. Probably close my eyes. It's probably why I hit the stupid thing. But yeah, it's these little pretenses that we're putting into these little categories. If you think were a four or five year old, you don't realize that you're, they don't know what you're saying. They're just pre programmed. I'll give you a great example. We just my daughter plays volleyball. And
their team is very good. But they're very undersized compared to the other girls, 15 year old girls. And when I say good, I mean, they're competing on a national level against the best 15 year olds in the country. So there is zero reason why anyone should be telling him that they're not capable or good by any stretch of the imagination. And I can think of and I'm very defensive about that, maybe because I have three daughters.
And it's important to me, but I got this 55 year old guy who doesn't know how to communicate to girls, another 55 year old guy who certainly doesn't want to communicate with girls, and anything that would be more apt to not know how to communicate 1550 or 15 year old girls would be the 32 year old guy. Okay? Like, what are they telling the 14 year old girls? You don't understand? 15 year old volleyball is harder. The girls are bigger, everyone works harder. And I'm like, dude, they
were all 14 last year. And now they're all 15 This year, it's the same girls the same team. They're 14 they're 15. Like, why are you pre programming shit into their head that they never had even thought about? So now when the next group of tall girls comes out what they're supposed to think what confidently are run into it? No, they just had a bunch of dudes, tell them something is
completely irrelevant. And the same thing happens to your point with kids, if you get pre programmed the stuff in their head, they don't know any different. Like, why are you even doing that?
And we do it. We do it in you know, we also do it within the expectation of like, if you're a woman in construction, we'll find you an office job or right because you're probably a good communicator, and you're probably really organized. And I mean, that's it people are people are everyone's a unique snowflake. Everybody's different. Not every woman is super nurturing. Not every woman is a super good communicator.
Some of them just want to get out and like, blow shit up, or fix things like and that's okay, too. We have to just start like, we just have to start opening up our perspectives a little bit on let people do what they want to do.
And I think it's you More importantly, find what you love. Right? It's about finding what you love. Not what yeah, you know what you're just that's what people are like, Well, I'm good at this. I'm good at that. So I should do that. No, what do you like? And then go find that job like that. Don't tell me what you're good at. Because who cares? You have to spend a long time doing that.
Your way when you find it? Yeah. So I want to change gears a little bit. So I'm curious and fascinated how you I can see what your passions are, I know what you're talking about. But how did you transition or get that into this social media platform that you've built? Like, what was the impetus that drove you to talk about it there, I'm sure you've probably been yourself your
whole life. So anyone that's known you, but now you have this, you've utilized these platforms to share your opinions and perspectives with so many others? Like, how, what was the impetus to drive you to do that? Or where do you get the idea?
Um, I honestly, everything happens for a reason, I'm so blessed for my, all my experiences in life, right? People will look back and be like, Oh, I've wasted money in time at school and whatever. Well, I went to school for challenging work. And, you know, very close to my heart is this advocacy, you know, what, I'm getting paid $14 an hour to do it, you know, I'm combining my advocacy with my skilled trades and getting to, like, do both at
the same time. And so it's, it's kind of been all of the events in my life that have brought me up, brought me to today. And, you know, how did I get? I think I've, because of my business, that 10 years in the financial institution, where I, you know, I did a little bit of everything, marketing, and, you know, admin and accounting and all that stuff. You know, it's really set me up to be a little
bit more business II too. So I, you know, I'm able to take on, you know, the social media platforms and, and, you know, take on, take some of those soft skills and those different things that, you know, I've got from my previous jobs, and hopefully, kind of, you know, move forward and, you know, get the warm fuzzies that way, right, get some I get these messages from like parents, or my favorite ones were like, sometimes like Christmas time, we'll get them like, I was my
favorite. They call them a Barbie house. And he's like, I normally would have just built it for her. But I called her over and we built it together. And I was like, oh, like, it just blesses my heart. Like, because of something maybe I've said or done, you know, now, parents are doing things with their daughters or even sons, because, you know, they also, you know, get put into boxes a lot of times, like you were you were talking about,
yeah, that's really cool.
I loved your tic tock, I have to just jump in. You had a tic tac about, which I'm just excited to see, because I just did a social media class for contractors. And they were asking about, like, you know, should we be on tick tock? And I was like, Well, it depends on what it's for. But yes, you should, you can totally use tick tock. And they were like, is that really a thing? And construction? I was like, yeah, just type in the hashtag
construction. And you will find, but you're What about about the safety about unsafe, unsafe environments and your like, unsafe air? No, it's like that. It's just what I see from your content across all your platforms. There's just so much confidence, so much bravery, you're like, I'm not I'm not gonna be afraid to talk about these things. And I'm going to do it in a way that is fun. And is story driven? It? Really, I'm not surprised that you have the
audience's that you do. It's your very compelling.
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I totally didn't realize I'm not for everybody. But I think it's you know, really important that, you know, we educate our young people about this misperceptions. And one of those things is that it's like unsafe to be a construction worker.
100% There are unsafe situations 100% You know, what I like to think in construction, they provide you all the appropriate PPE, hard hats, ear protection, eye protection, sometimes ventilation, down to your every single piece of your polling can opt can be, you know, just for your job. But there's a lot of jobs out there, you can't, I can refuse unsafe work, I can say to my boss, I don't feel safe. We need to do something here to
make this better. So that, you know, I'm safe based on laws and regulations enforced by Canadian law. You know, it's it's, you know, I'm not just making a fuss, this is rules. There's a lot of jobs, not a lot, but there are a handful of jobs. You can't do that. nurses, firefighters, doctors, you know, they can't refuse Oh, sorry, I'm not going to go into that burning by fire right now. Like
that's your job. So, you know, 100% construction can be unsafe, but you need to be wise and alert and you know, check your surroundings. Wear your PPE if you don't wear your PPE. You know, I have a policy haven't seen it or I have had a workplace injury. And, you know, it took me a while to feel confident to talk about it because obviously the reason I am wearing my hat because I had to I hit my head. Why did you put your head shooting because I wasn't wearing my heart hat,
right? Like, I can give you my whole story as to why I wasn't wearing it. But at the end of the day, I still hit my head because I wasn't wearing it. So It goes to show how important those things that they put in place, how important they are. And you know why people should be less afraid of construction? Because you do have that ability to say no, to make this safer.
You know, you you talk about construction and companies and the different rules and regulations. Can you talk a little bit about what companies should be doing, or what you've seen the best companies do to attract or make the main construction or their their company more attractive for to bring a more diverse group, whether it's men or women or whoever wants to come work in construction? Were the things that you've seen, like, Wow, that's great that they're doing that and you see more people
flocking to it? Or what could people should? What should companies be doing?
I think? That's a great question. I think the biggest struggle for any person does not matter who you are getting into the skilled trades, it's that first year, you know, contractors, what they need to do is start being willing to take on first year apprentices, you have to give them a chance. And if nobody's going to give them a chance, you're never going to get the third year, right. So you have to be open to taking on those new apprentices.
And being you know, that's your, that's your part of the process, you're part of the process of educating and training the next generation of young people who are, you know, going to learn hopefully, from your journeyman, but that is your, that is what
you need to do. And if there, that's the biggest problem I see is that people are just not willing to take on the greenest of green, someone has to and so who that is, I think it's the con, that's what makes a contractor stand out is the one that's willing to, you know, they know to invest in their people. They know that, you know, some taking a first year
apprentice is important. Because it's it needs to be more welcoming for all, sadly, the culture is not the same that's at head office, obvious. Sometimes, you know, head office has this great culture, but it doesn't translate down to ground
level. And what I really am drawn to, and why I will often you know, speak highly of a company is one who knows how to pick good leaders, you know, if there's a good leader in place, a foreman, which is your supervisor in place, then people are treated fairly, they're treated safely. They're treated with respect, there's, you know, it's so important you pick right people for leadership roles, not just maybe the right name, or you know, somebody who's well educated is not always the best
leader. Smartest is not always best. So Soft skills are far more important.
Skills. Do. So we're recording this in May, which is mental health awareness month. And I know that you are a passionate advocate for mental health and construction. And we were talking about how the culture in the front office doesn't always translate down to the site. So I wanted to ask, what, what can contractors do?
And I think you nailed it with having the right leadership, but But what can they do to ensure that this project site that the site itself feels like a safe place to have those debt to have that that conversation or even just that experience? You know,
it's really hard because I've, I've had limited experiences, because I'm in union, right. And so I totally understand the business behind union is I'm going to work for you for three weeks, and then next week, I'm not working for you. So like, how do you, you know, like, you're not going to really invest in invest in the situation, if you know, they're not going to be with you for long term. You know, so sorry, the record this so you
can blank it out, right? I've had a brain fart with the question was, Oh, I didn't talk because I know, we've got a question here about mental health. But it wasn't the same question. So
yeah, no worries. I was curious what what contractors can do what construction business owners can do to make this site feel safer? And or just putting the crew feel safer, as you know, as it relates to in comparison to the back office?
So restart, along with leadership, like you talked about? They definitely they can it sort of, again, I taught on Union, it's really difficult to say because then only with a place for so long. So what are you going to do and still programs and you can check up on your employees, when you're maybe only at a site for three months, or three weeks or two days? It could be really quite different length of time with some contractors that have permanent full time employees?
Well, it's, I think it'd be much easier to kind of monitor that what kind of policies in place, you know, acknowledge your employees successes, you know, we see a lot of employees now sharing, you know, different worksite you know, send us your pictures is good commodity, good work, right. These are these are things that can help encourage team morale, and different things and so companies can
start doing those things. But on a construction site, it's really hard to get change the mindset of the group when when, you know, Scott was talking about kind of some pre programmed stuff. I think a lot of times with men in construction, they've been sent that message you talked about, gotta be tough, right? That's the message they've been sent their entire life. And so, you know, how do you change? How do you make a bunch of Tuchman software to
mental health? You know, like, my previous world, I used to get to tell people, I'm having a mental health day, and they just leave with no, I just, I'm having notes and overloading day, right here. It's like, She's crazy. There's something wrong like, whoa, like, like, it's like, she's crazy, right? They don't understand because they don't relate. Because
they've not been exposed. And I and a lot of men in construction, I, they've only been exposed to why sisters in laws, mothers, like, very limited amount of them have huge networks of women that they're friends with. So why would I expect them to understand or relate to me, or understand and relate to mental health when they've been told to suppress it
their entire life? You know, and so, mental health does, I think there's a lot of addiction, through construction, all trades, you know, there's a lot of stress and pressures. And so we definitely need to educate people, more so on that kind of the boots on the ground floor. But I also think that that comes, I think it's going to naturally come hand in hand with women, when more women enter the skilled trades, mental health will just naturally kind of become more of a talked about
acceptable thing. And I say that, why do I say that? Because of my experiences I've had on construction sites with with some of the different men, you know, I'm normally the first one who knows when someone's had a baby, right? Bob doesn't know, it doesn't care. And after, maybe Bob will entertain one
picture. But then after two, like, That's it, like, oh, yeah, okay, man, like, they don't care where I'm like maybe bringing out like, so they get to be a little more sensitive with me, you know, they get this kind of explore, you know, some areas that they've maybe never got to talk about at work, because
that's a taboo conversation. And like, by having conversations with them, you know, a lot of them open up with me, I think I know more about a lot of their, if they're struggling with maybe depression or stuff, they open up these kinds of things, they naturally become a little bit more sensitive. And maybe they don't want that they probably don't, because they want to stay tough, but it is better for us all, they will see that with time, you know, because they will also see the benefit for
them. And I remember I had a co worker, once I was talking to about was talking about an incident at work, and I was hurt about it. And he said, Shannon, I feel the exact same way. I just can't say anything about it. Can't Why can't because you don't know how I can't because it's not cool. So, you know, he's feels comfortable enough to say that to me. But he would not probably say that to anybody
else. So naturally, when women I think enter the environment, and there's more of us, there will naturally be a shift, just more acceptance and understanding.
I think I think you're spot on. Because anytime you change an environment, anytime you introduce a new element, change, hatch change has to happen. So just by introducing the new element of there being more women in construction, more people of color in construction, you are going to have to have conversations that you didn't have before it's going to change your your day is going to change.
One question I'm asking that point is, do you feel like where do you feel like the line is? Or if there's a line? Or what point is it between self accountability for mental health, like speaking and communicating, like, no one can force you to do that, but you can. But yeah, they can create a nice environment where you could feel more welcomed to? Where do you feel like the right line is for what a company needs to do to be responsible for creating or being an advocate for the
right atmosphere? And where it's just the individual to actually step into the uncomfortableness and communicate to at the same time, like we're what is do you have any thoughts? I'm curious what your perspective would be on that.
I think we I've talked about so many times, education is so important, you know, education on all levels, if you're your top people, we're educating your, your, you know, we get safety talks, and none of them are about mental health. None of them are about those kinds of topics, right? So if you were kind of maybe started with educating your people, this model certainly can help you know, kind of make transition. How you make change, it's it's hard. And, and no one knows 100%
The answer. But yes, they can start with education, I think is always good.
It's great. Shannon,
where can where can people find you? Who out in the wide world
I'm a little bit of everywhere, again, I to reach kind of as many people as I can. I know I can't reach all but there'll be somewhere someone on every platform, I'm pretty much everywhere, you either find me shooting into Moscow or I go buy, like Lady volts for fun on the on the
other social platforms. And that's what I really love about skilled trades and, you know is is the passion you see behind a lot, you know, a lot behind the crafts, they talk about craft, because it's it is, you know, an art, you know, there's a lot of beautiful things that come from the skilled trades. And so I really do love that side of
things. And so the Instagram, house people, all platforms, but Instagram tends to be a little bit more where people kind of like, share their craft and their kind of cool little, their things. And so that's one of the places you can find.
That's awesome, we will put all the links we can find to Shannon, aka lady vaults in the show notes, so that you guys can get in on that because it's super fun.
Young people, I always like, you know, young people have questions, they're concerned or scared or they don't know what they want to do, you know, my, my door, my hypothetical doors open, right? Like my DM, might my message is open for no need help or questions or? Yeah, just any sort of guidance I try. I might not always know.
I love that. Thank you. Um, so Scott usually asks three lightning round questions. I'm gonna jump in on the first one, I'm gonna hijack it without permission. Because that's how I roll here. So the first one, we usually ask, what is the one thing that you believe determines a business's success or failure, but I would like to subvert that and ask, What do you think, is one thing that determines a person's success or failure? Um,
I don't know, I feel like success is defined by personal like, that's like, you know, your own personal, personal thing, like some feel successful, having an amazing family somehow feels. So I think that's a personal thing. And if it's you, if, for me, if you're doing it morally, ethically, and you're happy and you're taking, you're successful in whatever you're doing, right, like, it's not always about success and money, right? I think it's so
more important. You're happy with what you do, because you most certainly can have money does not bring happiness.
I love that. I love that answer.
Me, too. What advice do you wish you had at the start of your career?
I really hope this one changes, based on my last question, but our back that I really hope that this one changes. Right now, I currently believe that I will never be part of the team, not to the team. But when you're the only one. When you're the only one, you got 10 over here and one, something happens nature takes over doesn't matter. Like it does not matter. There's 10 Boys, one girl and they don't relate they will it's like they all of a sudden all if one does
relate to you. We don't know who she is. And so, you know, I used to think that I could prove them wrong that I could like. But until those numbers shift, I see it, I see more understanding when there's more of us. But when there is that one on 100 ratio, I will never be part of the boys. And so yeah, that's what I kind of wish I knew.
Third question, do you have a certain piece of wisdom or advice that you would like to share with our audience? Or if they're people that are here listening to this now? What's the one takeaway if they heard nothing else? What's the one thing you want them to walk away with?
Well, my last name was kind of a damper. So don't give up. Be persistent. The skilled trades is amazing. That is something I wish I could change or advice. But there's a lot of great things and great people out there. And I think the most important thing is whether you wherever you are in the process to respect the process. So you know, to become a journey person, it's a process and you know, it's a journey.
And at one point, you're an apprentice at one point, you're a journeyman and maybe one day you're a contractor. But all three pieces hold a very
important role. The Apprentice it is your job to learn, ask questions, be attentive, you know, be everything that you can be your student, this is your education, the journeyman as your you are a teacher, it is your responsibility to make sure that that person is safe to make sure that person is you know, getting the guidance that they need, that they're they're getting the chances to practice
the skill. And lastly, the contractor he talked about, you know how I said we need to hire contracts a very key piece in this if you don't take on apprentices, there is no process. Yeah, right. So We need because they of course want the journey, man, of course you want the train person, but that is not how that works. So you have to either if you respect the process and whatever process you're in, it's a it's a
beautiful journey. And you know, everybody can be very fruitful and successful along the way.
That's awesome. That's a great place to end this. Right, it is we ended on a high note.
That's so true. You know, and the one thing I would tell you about what you said, related to question number two, never be a part of the team. from a guy's perspective, I'll offer you two things. One. The first is the guys are not uncomfortable to be around you. They're uncomfortable to listen to their friends talk about being around you. That's, that's 95% of that guaranteed. It's because the immaturity level, and I don't mean by age, I just mean, despite the age can be 20
could be 50. Is there they find you far more interesting to work with on a daily basis? And if they could secretly bow which team or do I go out to be? I want to be on Chauncey Muir way more, and there's not a guy on Earth that doesn't want to go to be in a social environment where there's guys and girls intermix, because it's far more interesting when girls are out. And it's not because they're trying to hit on him or everybody's twice just there's more interesting conversation.
So inherently, that's clearly going to be the case in a work environment, too. It's the immaturity of the guys that make it uncomfortable for some of them. So I would say, you know, that's just perspective out off you. It's not you. It's not that you think it is,
I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure we know it's not a
joke. Is there a maturity that? You say no, with the environment,
I definitely think it will change with time. And I that's where I say, like, I get one on one conversations with them. And that's why I know that exactly what you're saying is true, you know, but at the end of the day, nature takes over human nature takes over. And it's almost like a fight or flight. Do I go with the masses or not? Like no, you're going with the masses, like that's just a natural, and I don't even hold them, even upset with them.
Without that just I realized that you have to safeguard sometimes, you get you get close to a brother, you think they're like family, and then you know, you realize one day at work, you have a PMS day and Oh, get up? No, they don't know who you are. You're alien now. So. So it's just, it will change with time. I'm hoping I'm hopeful that you know, with more women, this will just naturally change. But yes, this
will make it well, I really do. I mean, automate, I just talked to somebody out today. And they they're in charge of a very large trade association. And they're talking more and more about its topics. It's a very big topic of conversation. They're more importantly, they're looking at it not only as something right to do, but it's a solution to a problem. And, and that will drive a lot of value in the process. So yeah, that's I think you're gonna be part of that
change. You just, you're just on the early end of the curve, but that's okay. You everybody needs early, early adopters, and folks that talk about it.
Thank you very much for that spot it, you know, we always need a little bit of encouragement. No, no job is easy. There's, of course, if you look hard enough, you're gonna find something you dislike if you want to, you know, and so, definitely a glass half full kind of person. Things will I totally believe things will, you know, continue to get better as we go. I'm there. There's more women joining every day and yeah, we just gotta keep it up. Awesome.
Yeah. Well, look, I'm a guy's guy. I get it. I get teased by other dudes all time and I'm talking to you two guys.
Well, as much as they talk
about how like, this is the thing you say I'm far more entertaining. They laugh about how much I talk, but then like when they're not with me for the day, they kind of felt like they had a boring day. Right? That was a very boring day. You just eight hours no entertainment. Yes. Yeah.
So thank you so much for joining us on this. This is awesome conversation. It's really cool to get to know you and share your story and we have the same passions, autumn and I and mobilization funding and the things we want to push forward. If there is literally anything at all that we can do for you, you need to please know that you have a trusted advisor, platform counsel, like whatever we can do to help you you got I just don't even hesitate to pick
up the phone. Absolutely do some message, whatever it takes. We're all for it. So come up with a crazy idea. Let us be your first call and talk to you about how we can make it happen or if we can any boss.
Well thank you very much and continue doing what you're doing because we need you know platforms and people like you guys to share stories like mine, you know, hopefully encourage change.
Yes. You did pretty well.
Enjoy your evening and we'll talk again.
I appreciate it. Thank you guys for joining and unreal MF first podcast. Until next time, have a great night.