There's so many different factors that lead to a small business not being successful. But there's a conversation that the primes and the subs can have to make sure that we're all on the same page. That is something that is really needed. No one's out there maliciously trying to make it bad. Everyone's own these stigmas and stereotypes as if they're truths, and they're not. Hey, everybody, my name is Scott paper. I'm the CEO co founder mobilization funding, and you are listening to the real
masters Podcast. Today I have a really special guest is going to talk to you all about her experiences in construction as it relates to learning the trades, subcontractors, general contractors, the relationships in between how we can train some of the younger folks coming up through high school and even grade school to enter into the construction. So Robin, I am very excited to introduce you to
Robin Donaldson. Hi, sir. Robin, can you tell me a little bit about your story how you got in the construction industry and just a little bit about yourself? Well, the way that I got into the construction industry, oh my gosh, I'm telling my age. Back in trade school, I was the first female and industrial lectricity. And I chose that train really out of spite for my mom providing, she wanted me to be a nurse or some sort of clerical position. But I was just really being rebellious.
However, I found that I loved industrial electricity, doing things with my hands, I had a pretty good career, I'll say doing electrical maintenance. But my heart and soul was being a general contractor, how I got into the construction industry where I'm at now, I brought my talents to construction. Because as you know, we don't have many women in the construction industry. So bringing my talents, I'm very good at cleaning. And I would like to think of myself as a great
organizer. Right. So I started with a strategic plan, I identified the contractors that I would like to do business with in the future. And so I solicited to those companies as providing janitorial services, cleaning the trailers as on the construction site, developing relationships, and it just really escalated to where I am now, with an awesome opportunity to be at the table with a lot of those general contractors that I initially wanted to do business. But
that's awesome. What is your specific focus now from general construction, you have a certain type of project? Are you going just back to your roots or electricity? Are you Where are you? Where are you staying? No, no, no, it would be in the affordable housing, commercial space. Because since then, getting into the construction industry, I educated myself by attending Hillsborough Community College, where I received my associates for architectural
design. And then also I became a NCC, er instructor, Proctor and performance evaluator. So with that certification, I'm able to teach the trades. So everything that I'm really doing is for that ultimate goal of being a general contractor. A lot of one of the things I want to ask you is the industry has a stereotype the construction industry itself, that is nothing but dead end jobs and toxic cultures and more men and women and all these
different stigmas. And I want to know what you think construction companies should be doing to help change that narrative and encourage more people that actually join the industry. The biggest suggestion would be developing minority programs where you're not only including them on projects, but also providing them the support that they need in order to scale or either enter the business.
Because at the end of the day, it would be in the best interest of a prime contractor larger firm, because in essence, you're really preserving an industry. So again, to answer that question to just reach back and assist smaller businesses. You also are the founder and president of the stem related nonprofit called stem exposure, which I know is a big passion of yours. And you and I've talked about before, can you tell us a little bit more about the
program itself? How you focused on it, were you narrowed in some of your thoughts and processing just kind of how you develop that passion for it? No, I love talking about STEM exposure. So um, the concept started back in 2018, where a investor asked me to design some conceptual drawings to help revitalize East Tampa. So I said you know what, let's have our students that live in this area to design what they want their neighborhood to look like.
Again, the goal in the mission is to expose our students to STEM careers or unrepresented STEM careers. Nice Pacific As it relates to architectural design and construction building, the best way I can explain it is that we went global in the middle of the pandemic out of my garage. That is what gave birth to stem exposure is a summer camp and our students, they ranged from first to 12th grade. And we're all learning the same curriculum. But the impact is
different, of course. So I have students that are entering the 12th grade. And those students were really focusing on their academic journey. So once they join the program, they decide, well, maybe architectural design may not be your choice. But through our pipeline, we are again, giving the students what they need in order to excel in whatever industry or STEM career that they choose. We've done amazing things I mentioned going
global. In the middle of the pandemic, of this past summer, we hosted the camp virtually in Kenya, and I was touched by a student who is who was a student at the University of Nairobi. And he said, Miss Robin, I have never seen a black engineer. And he says, I always wanted to study in the States. I'm like, Okay, what's going on. And I tell you is nothing but God, because within three weeks, that gentleman had made application to HCC, and he had already
received his visa. So within three weeks, that gentleman was here in the United States, attending HCC. And as a result of STEM exposure, we are an official recruiting agent for Hillsborough Community College. So again, is not enough to just expose these kids to the opportunities. But once they have found their passion is up to us to help them on their academic career. So by the 12th grade, you've already identified
your your path. And all of our students have been able to be dual enrolled, their 12th grade year, and on a fast track to the university of choice. And I say choice because during the pipeline, we're going to make sure these students are mentored with architectural firms that they have relationships with potential employers, internship opportunities, and so is basically I took my passion and my actual day to day job, and
just made it fun. Because I'm able to empower so many people in the process. Every time we talk to you, Robin, I think to myself, don't cry on camera, don't cry, thank you, you have the most amazing stories. Um, and that's just,
that's just one example. And, and I know you have dozens more, one of the things that I love about it is that it exposes the construction industry to kids who who may not see themselves in the stereotypical construction, you know, world, there's lots of girls in the program, there's lots of children of color in the program. What does it mean to you? And I kind of already know the answer. It's a leading
question. What does it mean to you, as a, as a black woman business owner, to be able to give these kids that that awareness, it means everything, because it was done for me. When I started my journey, I was literally sitting in ACC, I didn't have an exit plan. I was it was as if I was a penny with a hole in it. Right. And her name is Anne McNeil, who's my one of my mentors. She's the first African American female to receive a general contractor's license in
the state of Florida. And she literally took me around the country exposing me to the different facets of the construction industry. And I was able to focus in and choose architectural design. And all it took was that mentorship to make the biggest difference in my life. And if I can do the same thing, whether it's in an encouraging word, providing the program, assisting them through the pipeline, that that's my assignment.
Do you find that a lot of the kids my graduate through that program, are they going straight in to trade schools? Are they going more to associate's a bachelor's degrees, whereas the results men so far in the last few years, they're going into college, they're going straight to college, they're on a fast track to college. And one of the awesome things about being in partnership with Hillsborough Community College, not all students want to go to college.
So now we still have the opportunity for them to pursue an AAS degree or a hybrid certification of their choice. So whatever it is the student needs, we're able to offer them in the way of education That's what the summer camp. And then also through the NCC er certification where I'm actually teaching the construction trades, I have a group of 14 women that I mentor, and I teach
them those traits. And these are women who are looking to enter the construction industry, I have a couple of them who are wanting or pursuing their general contractor's license. And then I have a mother who just wants to understand the trade so she can maintain her own home. So I don't want to say
that I'm Robin Hood. But it is just that I want to be a source of inspiration guidance, because again, I've walked through the fire myself, I like the way you frame it that you know that these kids are on
the fast track to college. But if that's not there, if that's not their choice, if that's not their passion, then we also have the trade programs through HCC because I feel like a lot of conversations around the talent pipeline in construction is college or right college or the construction industry, like you don't have to go to college, you can just go straight into a trade school. Or you can just go straight into a trade and learn
it which is true and fine. But but you could also just go get your A S or a like I love that you give it a yes. And approach instead of an either or approach. It's way more inclusive, it's way more like accepting of whatever path you want to walk. Right. And I also really think the beauty of it because I reach such a vast audience. So again, our can't start at first grade. And is very important to me, because well, actually my youngest, the first and second graders, they're the best
designers. And in a couple of projects, I've been able to keep up actually I have for what I call commissioned designers. So I have a friend we're developing a community and the conceptual drawings, the floor plan in the elevations, their designs is what presales houses. And so for these students to understand that something that they are a knowledge that they can acquire within a two week program can afford them an opportunity to make money. I mean that that is
what, again, fuels me. And also most importantly, those students that are entering junior high school, you know, that's where they choose their electives. So we can expose these kids early on, now we have options. I think that's amazing. So you've also been a member of NAB work, the National Association of Black women in construction. So I want to talk to you a little bit about encouraging more women to get into the industry. And I hear you have some exciting news on that front as well.
I actually started the chapter here locally, waiting back in 2016. As of 2019, I took a hiatus. But I'm still affiliated with the organization, I love them dearly. I love the concept, because for every facet of construction, we have a female in that capacity. But as of late, I have is nothing really official. But it's in a group of like minded individuals, contractors, business owners, that I mastermind with on a
weekly basis. And as I mentioned before, I'm an architectural designer, I cannot show you any major beautiful designs. But for me, I design what I need, I create what I need. And so those people, those members that are a part of construction X, I'll go ahead and say it and put it in the universe, it'll be called construction next is just really vetted farms that represent
every facet of construction. So whether you're a surveyor, General, contractor, specialty supplier, those are the firms that make a construction x. And we're doing some amazing things. And really, I put that group together because not only being better at businesses, they have amazing strengths, right? And their strengths, bridge my weaknesses. So again, it was a strategic move to get into the construction industry. Keep the right type of environment by creating what I need. And you
know, I'm not racist. Of course you are robbing going back to the industry to just overall, you know, one of the things we have a firsthand experience and as we see and speak to so many different subcontractors and general contractors and material providers and other folks that service the construction industry, and in that we have a very unique experience and some understanding of exactly how those relationships and those
dynamics go back and forth. And what we've noticed There's a lot of those misconceptions and stereotypes that go into that relationship, they create a ton of tension and stress before the job even starts, oftentimes, even in the early pre construction phases, but also when these two groups of people are trying to work together as partners to accomplish what is a monumental task of a project and have a great outcome, we noticed that tension and stress based on those stereotypes often cause a
lot of strife. And so one of the things we're doing this year is we've initiated this, what we are calling our do your part mission to change those stereotypes to bring light to the fact of the things that we see when we talk to people every day, these misconceptions. And conversations really are just stereotypes, they don't really exist. Of course, there's a few random people out there that really believe those things, but most great majority do not. And so what I want to do is get your
opinion on that. What do you see regarding GC, some relationships that in your work, specifically, as it relates to some of these stereotypes and misconceptions that are out there? The first thing that comes to mind, Scott would be the fact that as a minority firm, a general contractor or prime contractor really does not see us, when you have an RFP that is requiring a firm of 15 20%
minority participation. We don't feel the love, like why does someone have to mandate that there's a participation on your job, that would be the first, then the second would be when people hear of a minority firm is as if we're not equipped, or that we're not capable. At the end of the day, if you're able to perform a service, it shouldn't matter if you're a minority or not. And if you are called upon to achieve a goal, it should it should be much more
than a good faith effort. You should really have that goal that ties in to the question that you had x previously, what can be done. Again, every big business started out small, they understand the struggles. So why not reach back or create some sort of program where you can help that minority scale their business, equip them with whatever it means that they're needing? Because there's so many different factors that lead to a small business not being
successful? Are you saying that because they have the minority requirement that they may, they don't equip the firm correctly? Or they don't see it? Just because it's a minority requirement? They look at you differently? Are you saying that they just look at you differently, because it's a minority? I think it would be a combination of both. I just think that we should be treated
a little differently. Because again, there's a lot of things that we need, and I use our relationship, there's things that I need, like, the mentorship, the understanding of, if I have found my business in a bad space, what is it that I need to do? So I won't repeat
that behavior? Right. Also, there's the conversation of certain types of insurances that are required, but really hinder a small business, like what business do I need with a million dollar automobile commercial policy, when I do not even come upon the property? Right. So it's different things like that, that I would like to see spoken about have that conversation.
Yet somehow, we've heard that a lot, just smaller businesses having these huge insurance requirements that put a huge burden on just the insurance caps and liabilities that you have to carry that just aren't really necessary for the type of work that you might be scoped to do. Now, if you're getting a scope of work that's significantly larger than what you might normally do, or she nearly large and important as it relates to the rest of the
projects. And yeah, I could see that insurance, but you don't, you know, for $100,000 contract, for example, you don't need $5 million worth of liability insurance necessarily. That's a great example, because I hear that a lot. Yes. And I love the fact that your initiative is is there to breach the cap, because I think there is a communication that needs to be had. Because a small business, we don't think that the larger firms are our
friends. Right? And it's because of the communication that's or the conversation that's not being had. So I can sit here and say that I'm being treated unfairly because I didn't get this notification or for whatever reason, in my mind, the prime is not my friend, which should be totally opposite. And the reason that a lot of small businesses that I find that have arrived at that is because they don't understand the small business does not understand the dynamics of the big business.
We're thinking that we're being slighted but it's just simply we don't understand the process. So when doing it, there's a conversation that the primes and the subs can have to make sure that we're all on the same page. Kudos for your initiative, because that is something that is really needed. Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point, I was gonna ask you what you would recommend for you at offer as advice to change the communication and you hit some
good points. And one in particular, as I frame it up as ownership, like, own the conversation, you know, I mean, so And part of that is, I think the context, what we're talking about is usually it's between two different people. And if you're having a conversation, you're only thinking about it from your perspective, and you're not thinking about it from their perspective, how could you rightfully or justly think that they should be thinking about you? If you're
not thinking about them? Why should Why should you expect them to think about you, and you're right, everybody, no matter where you are in construction, or where you land in the industry, or any industry for that matter, if you don't understand what each and every person has to do, or their context of it, it can make it really difficult to manage, it's really funny, because, you know, I played basketball when I was growing up. And my daughters are playing volleyball right now.
And I just, this just came to me. But as I heard you talk with this, there's a parallel in sports. And if you want to be a really good basketball player, there's five main positions, okay. And each position, you have to know your own. But the best players could play all five positions, they know what each of the five people on the core are doing when you're running a certain play. And if you know where each person is, needs to be or is designed to be, you're
going to be better yourself. And I told my daughter, she is a outside or middle hitter. And you know, the center has to set their ball. And so sometimes when we're practicing together, I make her set balls. And she's like, I'm on a set, or why don't need to do that. I'm like, Well, you can play on setter. So maybe you should figure out how hard it is to set a ball. Depending on where you're at. Why do I
have to pass? Well, you have to pass because if there's a bad pass, you need to understand how easy or hard it's going to be for that setter to make a great set. And though that perspective, it was funny watching my 15 year old daughter have this conversation and it clicks. There's so many parallels to that just even on a
construction site. If you're a subcontractor walking onto a site, and you're like this project manager needs to think about what I'm doing, I'm going to this project manager has 15 subcontractors working on that site, you just think about yourself, you want to be should only be thinking by yourself, you can't blame them, right? You have to think both sides in order to really have a good adequate conversation. So our goal is to do your part campaign
is to share those insights. And hopefully open up that perspective between a subcontractor that's listening says, hey, you know, the project manager, they have 20 other things going on that day, and they're under a ton of pressure to make the project scheduled, though, you know, it's not just about you today. And then vice versa, the project managers etc. Understand, this project means a ton to the sub, like, I know you
got a lot going on. But you got to pay attention to the subcontractor for the five minutes of time that you're going to give them give them all of your attention. Maybe I can give you hundreds of examples like that. That's the premise and point of the do your part campaign. And so why having us go through this and make these insights and conversations, it's exactly what we need to do. Because no one's out there maliciously trying to make it
bad. It's just everyone's own these stigmas and stereotypes as if they're truths, and they're not. Right. We're asking for the promise to do their part, we need to really do our part. How much do we know about our business, the industry, and most importantly, the people we're working for, that would really help. I would say bridge that gap or lack of
communication. And again, if more firms can have MEP programs program or a mentoring program, where they truly sit down with the client, the small business and provide what they need, because it's not a one size fits all. I mean, there's some common thread concerns that we all experienced, but in order to feel to a larger firm, that conversation definitely has to be had. I love it. Well, now we have one of my favorite parts of the podcast, which is the what I call the
lightning round. actually choose me bottom came up with it, but I like it so much that I've sort of adopted into my own philosophy. Are you ready? Quick, quick, any questions? Lightning round Question number one, what is one thing that you believe determines a business's success or failure? Understanding your role in your business? Period? Hands down. I understand it may be my business but I now understand the role that I play in my
business. And for me, that was the light bulb that went off So going into 2022, I am no longer the general manager of the universe. That's Jesus job. Right? And, and this year, I'm going to stay in my lane. So again, identifying understanding your role in your business is the key to success. Like it. That's good advice. Speaking of advice, what is the one piece of advice that you wish you heard at the start of your career? Okay, so there are three things that, in my mind makes a
successful business, right? The first thing is know what you know. The second thing is, know someone who knows what you don't know. The third thing, that's all you need to know, I'm thinking that I need to get this certification that this, this, this, this, no, just know what you know. And then find someone who knows what you don't know. I could have saved a lot of money in time. You know, I think you make a great point that you have folks that you try to engineer perfection, oh, I need this
certification. To get that class. I got to know this. I got to be an expert, Matt, before I start, the reality is you just got to start and know that you're gonna figure it out along the way. Because you're gonna there's always things you're not gonna know that you if you just sit and wait for the perfect moment that never comes. Right. I seems kind of silly, ask the third question. But is do you have any specific advice that you want to offer the audience before you go?
I would, I would say, just really know that you are enough. For so many of us, we have goals. And I'm going to speak for myself. I have a lot of goals and a lot of dreams. But sometimes I get derailed because of fear, thinking that I'm not good enough. Or maybe I shouldn't be sitting at this table. Or do I really think I can make that kind of money. But just knowing that you are enough and that you have arrived, nothing is ever going to be
perfect. And with the times that we're living in where our floor is shifting on a daily basis. Just stay focused, and stay grounded. Continue empowering yourself, whether it's finding a mastermind group and accountability partner, or any self development that you can engage in. stay focus, stay the course. Don't wait for it to be perfect. As I would say, just jump off the porch. And just truly make it happen. Love it. Robin, it is always such a pleasure to get to spend
time with you. Thank you for doing this with us. It really is. Robin, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. You've offered some great insights. And I'm just really grateful that you gave us the time and spend the time with us and sharing all of your insight and wisdom. Thank you. Likewise, talk to you guys. Hey, everyone, thanks for listening. If you like the show, please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you so much for your
support. It means a lot. If you'd like to learn more about mobilization funding, visit us at mobilization funding.com And we'll see you next time right here on the real NFL