Episode 58 with Terry Tucker - Mindset going through challenges

And first of all, Terry, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and for sharing your, what I believe is an inspiring story. So this, for those of us. That actually don't know whichever is who is Terry?

You, you can't tell this, but I'm six, eight inches tall. So I was the actually first person in my family to graduate from college. And I was all set to make my mark on the world with my newly obtained business administration degree. You know, I look back now and I think what a knucklehead I was, I didn't know anything about business, just because I had a degree in it.

Um, fortunately, I was able to find that first job, it was actually in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's international, the, the fast food, the hamburger chain, uh, I worked in their marketing department, but unfortunately I ended up living with my parents for the next three and a half years, as I helped my mom care for my dad and my grandmother who were both living with us and dying of different forms of cancer in my professional career. Uh, as I said, I've been a marketing executive.

I've also been a hospital administrator, a customer service manager, a police officer. Uh, and while I was a police officer, I was an undercover narcotics investigator and I was a SWAT team hostage, negotiator. Wow. I was also a school security consultant, a high school basketball coach, a motivational speaker. Uh, and last year I became an author, but for the last nine years, Pretty much I've been a cancer warrior.

And then finally, my wife and I have been married for 27 years and our only child, a daughter is a graduate of the United States air force academy. And is an officer in the newly created branch of the military here in the us called the space force. Wow.

And I live with so many lifetimes instead of this lifetime that it's so rich yet from some of the perspectives of the measurements. Success. I might not have that. Uh, and I think that, you know, as you were sharing your experience, like being married 27 years, having a daughter and doing all of these different things, that's so much.

And I, I, you know, it's a book about success, about how, how we can be successful mm-hmm and I'm starting to think that I may have missed the boat or missed the mark, because I think there's another word that begins with S that's more important. And that word is significance. Mm-hmm, you know, success is what we do. We, we become successful in, in business or, or, or school or podcasting or whatever it is. But significance is what we do for other people and, and don't get me wrong.

I think you can be both. I think you can be successful and significant, but I'm, I'm really starting to think that maybe it's more important, especially today, you know, when we're so caught up in, in who we are and you know, and it's all about us. That maybe the focus needs to move away from success and more towards significance. So maybe my second book might be more about the, the significant aspect of life as opposed to the success aspect of it.

As, as far as your understanding of it's that, and whoever read the book, you know, they might get their, their own understanding. Um, but I'm interested to, to get a little bit into the conversation. I think that it's important to go back to your life. Um, And to touch on your experience of this last, uh, this last years of actually going through, uh, cancer. How has that been for you? Would you be able to, to share a little bit of that?

And I, I didn't think a lot of it, because, like I said, I was a coach, so I was on my feet a lot, but after a couple weeks when it didn't heal, I, I went to a podiatrist, a foot doctor, friend of mine, and he, you know, he put some pads in my shoes and, and that didn't work. And eventually he took an x-ray and he said, you know, I think you have a little cyst in there. I can cut it out. And he did, he cut it out. He showed it to me. He's like, I've seen thousands of these, no big deal.

I'll put a couple stitches in and you know, two weeks go by, you'll be in good shape. Well, that was pretty much the last good two weeks that I, that I've had, uh, in my life, he was having the more frightened I became. And eventually he told me, he said, Terry, you have this very rare form of melanoma that is presenting on the bottom of your foot. He said, I've been a doctor for 25 years. I've never seen this form of cancer.

And he recommended, I go to, to MD Anderson cancer center, which is certainly the, the best cancer hospital in the United States. It may be the best cancer hospital in the world. And at MD Anderson, I had two surgeries to remove the two tumor in my foot, and then all the lymph nodes. In my groin. And after I healed, I was put on a weekly injection of a drug called interferon. Now interferon for me was just a horrible, nasty, debilitating drug. And, and the best way for me to describe it was.

After each injection for two or three days, I basically had the flu, you know, I, I sh I had the shakes, the chills, the, you know, the fever, the, the nausea, the vomiting, everything. So imagine being on that drug, having the flu every week for almost five years. Wow. And that's what I went through. and eventually the drug became so toxic to my body that I ended up in the intensive care unit with a fever of 108 degrees, which usually isn't compatible with being alive.

But fortunately I survived that that was in 2017, the in 2018. Um, I had my left foot amputated because the disease came back in 2019. It came back again in my shin, had a couple surgeries there and then last year, an undiagnosed tumor in my ankle grew large enough that it fractured my, my tibia, my shin bone, and they that necessitated. A whole bunch of testing. And they found out that basically my entire lower leg was full of cancer.

So last year in April, right in the middle of the, the global pandemic, I had my left leg amputated, um, kind of a, a very daunting experience. You know, my wife literally dropped me off at the hospital. I was the only surgery that day. Nobody could be with me. So, you know, to have a, a major limb cut off when, when nobody could be with you was a little scary. Wow,

Can you share a little bit of, of that? How has your mindset been and how has your, your energy and your life force been through all of this?

And they guide me on, on what I'm doing with my therapy, with my treatments and things like that. So the first one is this. You need to control your mind. Or your mind will control you because we all know our brains are hardwired to avoid pain and discomfort and to seek pleasure. So. If you want to do anything, I, I mean, it doesn't have to be cancer related. You know, you want to go skydiving, your brain is gonna kick in and be like, no, no, no, no, no. The plane could crash your parachute.

Couldn't open. You know, your brain will start playing all these scenarios as to why you shouldn't do it. So you need to control that mind or that mind is gonna control you. So that, so that's the first. The second one is you need to embrace the pain and the suffering that we all experience in life and use it to make you a stronger and more determined individual. I've had enough pain or so much pain.

However you wanna look at it in my life that instead of running from it, instead of wanting to get away from it now, I take it and I use it, I turn it inside and I use it as fuel, or I burn it, uh, you know, as energy to make me a stronger and more determined individual. Uh, so that's number two, number three. And this is the one that I, that I just added fairly recently. Is, and, and it kind of goes to the, to the, you mentioned the word legacy a little while ago.

It kind of goes to what your legacy is or, or what your end game is. And it's this, it says what you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people. So I always ask people, you know, especially younger people, you know, Think about what the one sentence people are gonna say about you at your funeral, you know, would your ancestors be proud of the life that you've lived? Mm-hmm so that's number three. And then number four is pretty self explanatory. As long as you don't quit.

You can never be defeated. And I, and I recently had a nurse. Um, one of the things I guess I left out of my journey is that in addition to having my leg amputated, I have tumors that are in my lungs that I'm being treated for. And the treatment is pretty, uh, aggressive and, and it leaves me pretty beat up. And I had a nurse, uh, a few weeks ago, ask me, she said, you know, Terry. This treatment is, is basically kicking your butt.

You know, I mean, and nobody would think anything less of you if you quit the treatment. And I tried to share those four truths with her. I explained to her that, you know, my Dr. May take me off the treatment or I may die on the treatment, but I'll never quit the treatment because that's not the way I'm wired. I, I just, I will not give up. And I am lucky because so far the treatment has shrunk the tumors in my lungs by about 31%. So. I'm having some success with it. Yes. It beats me up.

But on the other hand, you kind of have to balance, you know, your life and, and maybe some more life based on the success of the drug. Yeah. Um,

And, and he said, you know, I don't think you're gonna play basketball again. And you might not walk normally again. So that was the first time I really had to. To kind of combat my brain to kind of work, you know, and, and control my brain, cuz my brain was like, you know what? You're not that good anymore. You know, you're a step, slower. Other people are better than you. And so that was my brain was telling me and I had to basically fight my brain and say, no, I'm still good.

I may not be as good, but I'm still good. To get a scholarship to play in college. So, you know, the whole control, your mind thing really kind of crystallized for me when I was 15 years old. Mm-hmm um, the, the other things, you know, the embrace, the pain and the suffering, that's just come from all the pain and the suffering that I've had.

And, you know, again, most people run away from it or, you know, they wanna medicate themselves, you know, gimme more drugs or I'm gonna turn to alcohol or something like that. I was like, no, I I'm just going to use it. You know? And, and it's people ask me, you know, how did that happen? I, I, I don't know. I, I mean, I, you know, I, I can talk a lot about my experience, but there are some things I just don't have the answers to. Um, you know, and, and that's one of them I just learned.

You know, there are some days when I'm in therapy where I get stuck with a needle 15, 16 times during the day. And I, and I always love nurses. You know, they're, they're putting a needle in you. Well, let me know if I'm hurting you. Well, you know, it's not feeling real good, you know, so I mean, yeah, you're kinda hurting me, but keep going with it. And then the, the third one, you know, the part about what we leave behind is what we weave in the hearts of others. That's the new one.

And, and that's one that I really, as I sort of in all honesty, probably come to the end of my life. Mm-hmm is, is one that I really have thought a lot about, you know, what legacy am I leaving? You know, what am I, what am I leaving? And how am I leaving it? And, and I wanted it to be good things that I'm, that I'm putting into other people's lives than other people's hearts. So, I mean, they, they sort of all have come at different points in my.

Yeah, it's kind of a long answer to your question, but no, that's good. Uh, you know, it, it it's, you know, they didn't come all at once. They, they didn't crystallize. They, they just kind of came at different points and then I wrote 'em down and I, I, I literally, I have a posted note sitting on my desk. With those four, four sentences. And I, I see it every day, multiple times.

That is, I think that it's just principle of how to be a good kind, compassionate human being and, and understanding, you know, in the, in the Buddhist teachings, there is the, some of the pillar teachings is that there is suffering. We all suffer. Of course how we experience it might be different levels of that, but there is suffering yet.

There's a way out of that and understanding this is our experience, but also there's other ways and how some of those are actually, as you were saying, control your mind, learning how to be with the thoughts that we have been programed. We have all been programed with, um, we have those parts of our brain, like that reptilian brain that is all of the time in either survival mode.

Um, and it's just, you know, running or freezing or like whatever it is, that's or fighting, whatever it's going to do. And the more that I can take the time to have a better relationship with my mind. And to use it. I'm not letting it use me. It's easier to live my life every day, because if not, then yes, life could be very, very challenging. And, and I always find it fascinating that we have a lot of times. And I talk with, with some of my clients, um, anyone that is their client of mine.

Now it's actually someone that is privileged in life. And, and I usually try to remind them to keep their mind open and to keep a wide perspective because there's people that are going through stuff that is really, really challenging. Like as, as you are experiencing, you know, like this cancer for so long yet you are still like coming and every single day going with. And still living your life and still having right. Still being happy with all of challenges, but still going.

And someone that doesn't have that is like, okay, let's bring the perspective back into what's actually happening. Yes. We might not have the millions of dollars that we want, but we don't have to go through all of these hardships. Can we stay and being grateful for where we.

It may end with, with medication. It may end when I die, but if I quit. That pain's always gonna be there. It's always gonna be with me if I quit what I'm doing. So, you know, I, I don't mind don't get me wrong. I, I mean, I'm not a masochist, I'm not looking for more pain or more suffering. I, I, by any means, but.

Suffering is something that you've got a choice, you know, you can, we can all have pain and, and, you know, and maybe we're just playing semantics here with, you know, with different words, but you, you know, we're all gonna have pain in our life. It's your choice, whether you want to suffer with it. And, and people always ask, you know, do you get down? Do you get depressed? Be yes. I, I mean, I'm, I'm not Superman. I don't have a big S in, on my chest or a. Yes. I, I cry. I get nervous.

I, I get scared. All that stuff happens. I get down and we all do, you know, we get a bad grade on a test or we lose our job or, you know, our boyfriend or girlfriend breaks up with us or whatever. We all get into those dark places. It's your choice. How long you want to stay there. Mm-hmm , it's your choice. Whether you wanna say, okay. Yeah, this suck. But you know what I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna keep moving forward. So, you know, again, we may be talking semantics, but yeah.

Suffering is something you can use to make you a stronger and more determined individual.

Um, because I think that there is so much of an importance in relationships and in love and kindness that sometimes. Because that's a lot of times that's not tangible, then there's no easy measure for that. And it's not easy to, to realize what's the impact that we're having yet. I think that when we, when we actually approach life, as you're saying that, you know, What are your ancestors going to say about you? Was someone at your funeral going to say about you?

That is all based on relationships and love and being kind to them and to everyone else? I believe that everyone is my family and I believe that that's what I should be doing, being kind to everyone because everyone is just like me. So. And yeah, that's such an important one that it's not just, you know, about going back to legacy. I don't need to be, you know, like the president of a country, stuff like that to actually have that impact in someone's life.

And I'm like, okay, so, well, I don't wanna do it right now. And she came back later and I'm like, tell me your story. She said, when I first met you, when, when during that first episode, I was gonna get outta nursing. I was gonna quit. I'd already talked to my mom and dad. I was gonna go to work for Amazon and I was just totally gonna get outta nursing. I had a friend that had died. That was very close to me.

I was in a really dark place and I was done with nursing and she said, and then I met you and I heard your story and I saw how you fight every single day. And she said, I knew I was where I was supposed to be. And if she had not told me that story, I, I, would've never known that. I would've never known the impact that my life. Had on her, but it still would've had an impact. And, and like you say, you just never know, and I think that's important.

You, you know, um, there's a saying, and I can't think of it right now, but you just never know the impact that your life, you just never know. Who's watching you and, and saying, you know what? I want to be like, Brian, I, you know, he he's somebody that I. If they never tell you that you have no idea mm-hmm so I, I think it's important for all of us, you know, it's not just about us. It's about the impact.

The, you know, it's kinda like throwing a stone in the water, you know, the ripple effect of your life. You are that stone and everybody, you touch all those ripples on that water. Everybody, you touch, you have an impact on. Mm.

Take ownership and responsibility for my place in my, and my actions. So this is partly. You know, with conscious action, this is really important for me is the way where it's coming from. What's the intention and what is the action and, and actually be able to, to live a life that is conscious, live a life. Yeah. That actually. is having a positive impact on myself, the people around me and the people that I dunno, and the next generations and, and everyone.

So I think that that's, that's really important. And, and I wanted to go, um, to, into some of the things that, that you talk in the book. And, and I thought one of the, two of the things that I wanted to, to touch on that I wanted you to explore a little bit more is beliefs and habits.

I don't, I mean, I've seen the beauty of our daughter being born. I've seen, uh, you know, I, I live in the foothills of the Rocky mountains. I've seen a herd of elk making their way through a snow drift, you know, in the foothills of those mountains. And you just look at some of this stuff and you realize. How insignificant you are you, you know, and how beautiful this world is and, and the people that are in it.

And, and we, we spend so much time screaming at each other that we never get to the point I develop, I, I devoted a whole chapter in my book to listening and, and listening. To understand, not listening to reply. And, and I, I know I'm guilty of this and, and we probably all are, you know, we're in a conversation and somebody's talking and you're like, you know, yeah, hurry, hurry up, hurry up. Say it. Cuz I wanna get my 2 cents in there. That's not listening to understand.

That's not listening to grasp the concept of one, what this person's saying and why they're saying it. We just want to talk. And as you've probably figured out and your audience has figured out, I, I have no problem talking, you know, talking is pretty easy for me, but when I was a negotiator on the SWAT team, one of the things that we had to do was try to deal with a person in crisis, simply based on what they were saying. What they weren't saying and how they were saying it.

And that became a real art, a real nuance that, you know, as a policeman, you're usually dealing with people face to face. Well, in that situation, you weren't, and you know, if you're talking to me in that situation, you're probably having one of the worst days of your life. Mm-hmm if, if not the worst day of your life.

And, and so I'm here to help you, you know, I, I guess I kind of got off on a tangent there with, but you know, the, the, the beliefs, you know, are the truths that I explain to you, tho those are, those are things that resonate in my soul that live in my soul. And, and I guide my life. I live my life based on, on, on those principles now habits. I, I remember when, when our daughter was growing up and our daughter played basketball in college as well.

She went to a camp every summer and it was called a habits camp. And I wanted her to go to that. The habits that we all pick up, she was picking up some bad habits and I'm like, no, I want you to go here. And I want you to pick up good habits. I want you to learn how you should be playing the game. And I, when you mentioned habits, that's the first thing that popped into my mind was like, You know, we have a choice, you know, we, we know how to live life.

And like you said, young people especially learn how to live life from old people like me, you know? I mean, do I want to be like that person? Do I not want to be like that person? And that's mostly based on the habits that we have developed over our lives. Are you developing good habits? Mm-hmm , you know, are you a kind person? Are you a caring person? Are you a loving person? Another chapter I dev I devoted, uh, to, in my book and it was the last one.

And, and they're not in any order, but it was that love was the most important word in any language. Mm. And, and I think it's so important that we develop good habits, because if we develop good habits, we're gonna have a good life. If we develop poor habits, We're not gonna have such a good life. And, and I've seen that as a police officer, people make bad choices, make bad decisions based on, on their habits, whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever.

And, and, and then they're dealing with me and, and it's not a, you know, sometimes you tie my hands, I've gotta take you to jail. And now I'm really ruining your life. Mm-hmm , but I didn't ruin it. You did. You made the choice to do that.

If we never work in ourself and try to get this new habit, which we need to actually do work to get them to the new habits, then we are going to be in a sense, the victims of our circumstances. And, and this is something that I keep on seeing, you know, Generation of generation of people that have been underprivileged or cast aside or whatever, um, based on their ethnicity or their skin color or whatever it is that you see in their. Poor education. There's not access to different things.

Then they turn to drugs and alcohol. And then of course that's what the next generation is learning. And it's in that space. And it's really, really challenging, I think, to, to get out of that. And it's. So incredible when someone can actually turn that upside down and starting to, to do the, the thing to get out of that space. So I think that's, that's really, really important. Um, Terry, I know that we don't have that much time left, so I want to get to last few questions.

Um, feel free to, to talk about this, whether that is for the public in general, or for people that are dealing with. Uh, a disease or cancer or, or anything that you feel appropriate, but what is one tip that you would share with, with people?

They have to resonate in your soul because the that's who you are, and that's how you guide your life and live your life. And, you know, like I said, if, if you're, if you're coming home from work every day and you're hitting the bottle and you know, your child is seeing that. Then you you're right. It's just gonna be a self-fulfilling prophecy and, and there, well, there's nothing wrong with that. And, and there's right. There's nothing wrong with alcohol and moderation.

Absolutely. But you know, when I saw my daughter born and I realized that I was now responsible for the total care of another human being. You know, I, I, I was a pretty squared away person at that time, but it just helped me to really realize that there's somebody else out there. It may be your child. It may be somebody you work with. Maybe somebody you go to school with who looks up to you and you don't even know it.

I mean, you deal with a child, but for somebody else, I think it's so important. So find whatever truths you have in your life, commit them to your heart and your soul. And then live your life based on those. Mm,

Um, I believe that, you know, That I am a unique child of God, that there has never been somebody before me. And there will never be anybody after me. That is like me, that has my same unique gifts and talents. And when you think about that, when you think about a, a God who knew all my failings, all my sins, all my, all the, all the dumb things I was gonna do in my life. and yet loved me enough to still put me on this world and give me an opportunity to make a difference.

That is an incredible feeling for me. And, and, and I, I guess I would just ask your audience to think about that. Think about how you unique you are as a human and how whoever your creator was, whatever you believed that to be loved you enough to. Understand and know your faults, but still loved you enough to put you on this planet and give you an opportunity to make this world a better place. Mm

That is what I can strive for every single day. So yeah. I love that.

And I think when you start bleeding over into, you know, well, Brian's got that, you know, I want that, well, do you want that because you want it or do you want it because Brian has it and if you want it, because Brian has it, that's the wrong reason to have it. Mm-hmm, you know, you wanna have things. Or, or you want to do things that, that resonate with you, not that resonate with somebody else. So don't, don't try to be like somebody else. Just try to be the best you that you can be.

You can, you can buy the book through that and you, or you can just go there for a quick shot of inspiration or motivation every day.

And especially as you're going through it with such an amazing demeanor and such an amazing energy and outlook into, into life. So I, I. I thank you. And, and I wish you all of the best for what is upcoming for you. We never know what, uh, what's coming in the future, but I think that as long as you continue, as you're saying all of the time with how you're going through it, through it, then that's all that you can do. Well,