Have you ever wondered whether the problems in the world today would exist? If we had deeper connection to ourselves, others and the environment and exited from that place, welcome
to the conscious action podcast with your host, Brian Berman and Kayla Greenville, who believe that connection is the key to taking conscious action as individuals and creating a better world. We are here
to raise awareness and inspire meaningful action by sharing stories, knowledge and conversations with thought leaders and change
makers from sustainability to wellbeing and everything related to conscious living. Our mission is to empower you to be the change that you want to see in the world. Welcome everyone to a new episode of the conscious section broadcast. I am Brian Burton, Newman, your host, and I have the pleasure of for this episode. For the first time by someone that I've known so much in the last few years, but yet this is the first time that we are here face to face or screen this screen.
Uh, um, first of all, thank you, Laura so much for taking the time to be here with us. And for those of you that know you are in, are you able to introduce yourself to our audience? Who are you?
That's such a huge question. I'm lost same as everyone just floating around and this year waiting to see where I land and who I am when it stopped, um, in this capacity though. Well, firstly, thank you so much for inviting me to chat with you. It's a pleasure to meet you as well. I feel that you and Kayla have been part of a journey. We kind of like started on this, the same risk capacity. I guess I'm here as. Uh, Laura from union and you, your stand for use your own.
And it's a website and cafe guide and Instagram platform that I started in 2017. Um, I'm primarily a mum, um, lover, a human being, and I just happened to run a cafe guide as well. So
yes, yes. And yes. Thank you so much once again, for taking the time and, um, for everything that you're doing. And I think that you're one of the most passionate people that I know, and that go all out into actually doing an acting on what you believe, um, that is not about let us not the norm, uh, for whatever reason it is that it's not the norm for people to access. Be fully onboard with what they are doing.
And I would love to explore it a little bit more than that, by getting to know a little bit more, I'm getting to know, like, where are you always such a passionate person and as well, were you always interested in what you're working on now and trying to reduce single use plastics or single uses, I'm getting back into ways that are better for the environment and for them.
I've always been, I've always been full on. I've always been like high maintenance and high energy, I suppose. Um, but, um, in my teens and twenties that just flailed around everywhere. So at that point I was on a sort of personal journey. I was brought up in London.
I left there and sort of at my late teens and just traveled and worked and always put my hand up to say yes, and whatever it was, I was saying yes to, I would give it 110%, not because I'm naturally a giver or a generous person, but because I realized that I would get more out of what ever I did if I just went hard with it.
Um, but it was always quite self seeking, um, not for any kind of personal gain, but just for seeking experience, you know, um, trying to found out what was, what, um, so far as the commitment to that normalizing, reuse and reducing waste even now. I guess that isn't a priority and a driver for me, the thing behind that, which I guess those travels and those experiences and the people I met on the way, it's just this need for personal stewardship and personal responsibility.
And that's what I feel really passionate about. And that's the source of my frustration. Is this, why the fuck aren't we getting on with it? Why aren't I getting on with it? How, why am I sleeping when they shit to be got on with? Um, and that was kind of what led me to start. The cafe guy was to try and find a space where I could have those conversations within an industry that could perhaps. Knock on any good that came from that to our personal lives.
And that could also go up the ladder into corporate business and legislative action as well. So I could have really picked anything, you know, I picked coffee cups cause there as kind of like a token, a symbol of shit behavior that can be changed quite simply, that kind of open our eyes to the impact of, of how we live. So, yeah.
So if it was just about working with the hospital, reducing some glorious place, I'd probably get really tired of it because it's attached to this kind of like massive idea of like we're so much better than we think we are. Pull together and push forward, you know, that's the bit that, that I'm really passionate about. Yeah.
And such an interesting thing in regards to like unnecessarily, like our journalists are connected in that sense, because for me, I'm what we do with unconscious action. It is that is understanding that we must act on what we do matters and that we have a responsibility to be stewards of the land and to be kind person that I believe that we all are accountable. And we are just sometimes out of not knowing, um, or not knowing enough.
Sometimes we are not doing the right thing even by our own values. And I think that that is one of the things that I'm super passionate about as well, because I do believe that everyone actually cares is just knocking on the window and being. Hey, like you do care about this right then way to make that.
Yeah, and the people are that we are all important and it sounds like a cliche, but I guess the thing with these cliches is we hit them so much that we're desensitized to them when they're so valuable. Like we do, everybody does count. We are all important. And I think increasingly, perhaps in the last few decades for sort of our, I mean, for our Western cultures, we've become maybe a little bit disenfranchised.
We're being sold these lifestyles, these media versions of how we live and it actually belittles our reality, you know, to a certain extent. So again, to take some small action where we can take ownership of our, of our power. Um, and I agree with you completely. I think most of us are driven have that, have that kindness and that ability to give that. But it's, yeah, it's more saying this is a way to do it. This is a tool, but actually you can still do this.
You all valid, everything you say and think is valid. Bring it out rather than have stuff put on you by by media or by marketing. Come out from under it.
And it's such an interesting thing for me. Listen, this is why there is all of these different approaches that I believe that are valid and actually necessary. You there's people that are, you know, super hard out activists, disruptors, um, people that are educating people that are having conversations, all of these levels of engagement because different people will respond to different things.
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's been my favorite. My favorite thing about this journey over the last two, three years is meeting so many people. That have different approaches that are all working basically with that, at that core.
And so when I first spoke to Kayla back in the day, when you guys were beginning conscious action, that little sentence, and I don't know, I'd love to hear about how you found your two keywords, but that's pretty much at the core of everyone that I've met and worked with. If we could bring it down to what we're trying to achieve and the tool we're trying to use to achieve that that's good. That was a good conversation, whatever you had, right?
Yeah. And that, and to touch on that, like, it was actually super interesting because we got to get up. So then I used to work together and then that business closed down. So then most of us and Charles, um, we were doing our own thing and Kayla was traveling with her partner. Um, I was trying to get my work visa. And once that happened, like I got my work visa and she had returned to the country, we just met up for it and we were all like, What do we want to do now?
And we were like, let's do something similar to some of the things that we were planning beforehand and let's make it happen. So we actually, we literally wrote in a piece of paper, why we started wait half an hour. We started putting on of these different words in there. And we started circling the ones that we thought were really important and the main ones were awareness action.
Um, that's where our conscious action came from because we thought that that bit of, you know, raising awareness it's a completely necessary. And there's so many amazing, the commenters and resources that are amazing about raising awareness of what's there. But then a lot of us, we don't know how we can, we don't know the actions that we can take. We know the steps that are necessary, um, in a sense.
And coming from my training on Tibetan Buddhism, like the action and experience is actually more important than the knowledge, but without the knowledge, you don't know the right action. So getting both together, like for me, it's a very important and really, really blessed and privileged to be able to have this and to have this as part of what I guess my mission in life and knowing that with so many people naked, this is something that it's easy to recognize.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Definitely. It's definitely a common thread with, uh, with the P and you would have found this yourself with the people that, like, I don't even think it's a kind of echo chamber thing because we meet such a diverse amount of people when you're dealing with zero waste and waste reduction. So you're working with councils and universities and hospitals and zero waste network.
So you're, you're working with people that are engaged in this for all kinds of reasons, but they all seem to have that core of, of educating and then taking action upon it. And those two steps together, the people that are just such a joy to work with, but it's been my best thing over the last few years. And as you were saying before, there's a place and a need for every type of representation of that. Um, I found so much comfort and support from the people that are.
Probably behind the scenes a little bit more. Um, there's a couple of who I can think of that work in local councils in Wasteman teams. And they're involved in other stuff. They're, they're in junior positions, but they are, they never stop. They get an idea and they push it through and they push it through and they find the right voice. And then they'll, they'll reach out to others to maybe play bad cop a little bit and make those social activism noises.
And then they'll bring it back to again, like, Hey, what about this idea now? Now, can we do it? If it's not right, they'll go and find other solutions or other people. And, and that's been, the joy is being able to connect with people like that, who seriously just want to get the job done and understand that collaboration, communication with all of these types of people that working in this area is key. Not being afraid to ask for help. You know, like I'm limited by my role, but you're not.
So let's work together and kind of
definitely. And I think, you know, and, and I would love for you to. To comment a little bit more on this and to explore the topic of that motivation, the motivation behind a lot of what we do for everyone is a little bit different. Um, can you talk a little bit more about your motivation to make this happen?
Um, mine's really simple and I'm a mom. My daughter se is 17 years old. And for me, when she was born, it was like a light bulb moment, a light switch moment of shift, fucking horror, Brian, like everything was more beautiful, but the bad in the world. And I'm sure that you don't have to be a parent to experience this. You just have to have that switch turned on. Which for me, I didn't beforehand.
Hey, I had no concept of my own place in things and mortality at any of it, but it was just this like, fuck, I have to do something to keep this person safe. And I guess now my motivation. My motivation is still that, but the tools that I've learned from working with others is that to do that request so much more than me, just making sure that she has a roof over her head and love and food in her belly. Now I have to future proof.
So my motivation is completely driven by her life and lives like hers that haven't even happened yet. Because once you start loving unconditionally, she can't stop that shit. You know, once that loves that's coming out of you, it moves away from your own to just encompassing. Well, these are all my. You know, all of these babies kind of thing. So that that's, that's my motivation and that's my drive.
So when I say like, go on my Instagram, a few single use what I'm actually saying, it's like do something for these people that you don't even know yet. Like it's your responsibility we're really need to protect each other. So yeah, I sort of maternal protection, I guess, with a little bit of lion ness in it, maybe.
And I think that's, you know, that's an interesting thing about, um, the mark to that, um, being a steward of that connection. And I think that this is a little bit something that through the last hundreds of years, a lot of, especially in the Western world, we have started to become more disconnected with our collective mother that is the air and with each other and getting that understanding of living. In a way that actually is better for, it's kind of like a win-win situation for everyone.
It's better for the environment better for the future generations. Um, and that is the understanding of more community and understanding how it's not in a sense. Yes, it's your baby. And I don't have kids yet, but it's like understanding like there's someone's babies. And that is, that is part of the beings that I care for. And not only humans, like I cared about animals as well, and that's why I'm vegan. And I'm being able to have that connection.
I'm trying to understand like, oh, that you know, that mountain or that river or that jungle, like all of those places, I have a place to take care of them because they are taking care of me.
Yeah, the host thing, your life, your existence, the veganism is weaving too, is a really good space. I think, to just try and understand for me making that decision to become vegan, and then more importantly, discussing it with others after really helps me clarify my motivation and my drive and my reasoning. Every time I have a conversation with someone about veganism, it kind of helps me solidify my position.
And I think at the core of veganism is that, that compassion, that tolerance, that understanding that we are, we can either be guardians who give a nurture, or we can be purely power physical taking from our planet, taking from each other, taking literally the lives of other beings, or we can choose to enhance them. That is.
From a vegan point of view, which knocks on to everything, a simple daily choice, either I will live this way or I won't and calling ourselves to account and, and allowing, I think you said this as well, this disconnect that we have in these Western cultures, um, removing that disconnect and opening our eyes to the pain that we can.
Cause if we don't make the right choice, instead of this kind of like inherent, I was put here, this is for me, this is mine, which as you said as well, backfires, because if you don't take care of everything, then you've got,
you've got nothing. It's interesting because talking about as well, like making things right for the next generations. I actually think that, you know, on this space of climate change and climate justice and social justice, a lot of times. We are, there's not enough connection, the storytelling. And a lot of it comes back into science. And we are like, for a lot of us science, it's just numbers, even though I believe in the science personally that's numbers. And what does 1.5 mean to people?
Like sometimes it's, it's so far removed, but if it's, you know, like hearing now, Karen now we've been covering the shortage of water, for example. And it's like, that is affecting us right now. This is not future racial people in the islands, in the Pacific. Like they are having struggles right now. This is not something for the future. And this is something that I think that the more stories and the more that we can connect in that way as well.
And I can see, you know, this is not just a future. This is now like we to do the best that we can right now,
the challenge is overcoming. Do you think this desensitization that is still coming at us? So we have these valid stories and we can look at them, but we can choose to turn them off. And we're being still gifted. This consume, consume. Don't worry about it. Buy something new that's pink. Um, everything will be okay. Like they're really off massive forces at work, keeping us away from really being ingrained in our current reality. And she said it isn't the future. It is right now.
But yeah, even though it's happening right here, Still this other channel pushing in don't don't think about it. Don't think about it. Keep spending your money, keep buying stuff. You know, it's hard to fight against that, which again was where community comes in and almost having like a, like a breakup plan, like a detox plan, you know, someone's got your back. So you're like all today, I nearly slipped up. No, it's okay. You donate that back and you don't need to buy that.
And you don't need to read into that, keeping an eye on each other to, and seeking out new voices as well, that perhaps have more experience of our own seeking those stories and trying to share them as well. Because as you said, you know, you're in a very privileged position to be able to speak this way. And I feel the same to even be able to think this way, you know, a product of so many choices that weren't my own that has led me to this.
Um, so yet to try and remember to, to seek out voices that are probably stronger and more knowledgeable and share those rather than just. Yes.
And I'm curious, and I went, when you started with New York night, what was the name at the beginning? Especially like you're sharing the off, trying to reach out to people and make it happen. Because like I experienced from outside, there was like, oh wow, this is actually happening. And people are actually doing it. You're there every single day.
Yeah, I felt it was like, you thought felt the same for me too, which is always a surprise. Like it's like when you're like, you have a Sunday and you're like, oh, I can't be fucked to do anything. And then you do something and you look back and like, wow, I just made a veggie patch or because I just did it.
It was kind of like that, like every conversation I think that I had led to something, it, again, just lucky, lucky timing I started, you know, because I went to see David SN bruh, I'm up in Oakland with my daughter. He's completely in love with him as we all are. And, um, and at the end of, um, his, his talk, the kids stood up and asked, what should we do?
And his response was to take responsibility for repeated personal actions, support grassroots, seek out others that had a skillset that we didn't have and support them, um, and just go and do something. So we literally walked home, um, from the civic to where we were staying in Oakland, looking at the trash on the street. And we're like, well, if this shit wasn't here, that will be better. If the person that's through that, which again, 20 years ago could have been. Um, didn't do that.
That would be indicative of some kind of social mindset change. Why don't I try and start with that shit? And I'm like, okay, well I could pick it up, but there's people that are doing the cleanups and the pickups and the education way better than I ever could. Um, what's my skills are my skills, I guess he's just talking shit and not stopping, like just not giving up and just trying to, and there's a parent who they just shoot the hostage. Like, what's your problem.
If there's a problem, I'm going to get rid of that. Okay. Now what's the problem. Okay. We're going to get rid of that. Now it's a problem. Um, so, so yeah, so I thought, okay, I'll start a cafe guide to have just some core, but I really was expecting to have three or four cafes in my hometown of Gunn Eaton. And that would give me enough to go to the Otago daily times and say, we have a personal responsibility waste issue in our city. We need to stop it.
We need to combat marketing, combat throwaway culture, combat status branding that makes people feel they have to carry this and that. Cause again, I know I'm rambling, but in my mind, that's associated to so many of the social sicknesses. We feel still judged by the color and the brand on the cups that we have. You know, this is not a healthy situation to grow. And so that, that was my thinking and the guide was really just a way for me to have conversations.
So if I turned up as Laura people, like what if I turn up Laura from then it kind of got my foot in the door and, um, And I just, I made the website, my friends where I did that, create the Instagram account. Didn't really know what I was doing. And then just try to make friends and Kayla, I remember driving down the road and then a call came in from her and I'm not even know how we connected and pulling over by the side of the road and having a conversation.
And she straight away, she was like, wow, should we be friends? And I'm like, yeah, let's be friends. What do you need? And she's like, yeah, great. What do you need? And that gave me, and then social media, right, is like this exaggerated version of our own communities. If you have a friend and they'll say to their friend, this my new friends, nice, you should be friends with them. And that was kind of how it happened.
And then having these people with integrity, that I was so lucky to meet at the core, opened more doors to more conversations and I reached more cafes and then more came on board. And then I got the privilege and the, maybe the rights through their voice. To have a voice when dealing with council, when dealing with waste audits, when asking advice on policy, when approaching local projects, you kind of gave me a weight, but it's all borrowed. Like I'm totally full of shit.
I didn't know what I was doing at all. Like I'd waited tables, but I knew nothing, but put all these voices have kind of made me have the confidence to yeah. To sort of kind of fund out everyone. Good.
And this is an interesting thing because I don't have you're full of shit. I think that you just use what you thought, you know, what's your superpower and being like, okay, like I can connect through the bullshit and I can actually. Have that connection and community. And it's like all of these amazing people for me the same, like a lot of times, like with cross-section we touch on all of these different topics.
I'm like, look, I'm an amazing guest, bigger here, or talking to someone on the podcast. Yeah. A lot of this stuff I know, but that's these experts or these people know so much, like everyone, not actually that I know a none of these spaces, everyone's a nice person and they care about this and they're okay with being part of freedom with me saying, Hey, check out what like Kate hall is saying, because she's like, she's talking about this.
And then it's like, it's that being able to connect with people. And I like the takeaway as well. That's a collaborative.
Yeah. Yeah, that was a beautiful baby. Um, Hannah and Liam from the rubbish trip who I was going to talk about later, you sent me through a few questions that I might want to think about for who would I share? My resources, my messages, basically a lot of that comes from those guys. So to anyone who's listening, turn me off right now. Listen to Brian later and then go and look for the rubbish trip online as well. So Hannah and Liam are amazing.
We created take-away throwaways together in my kitchen last year from. Talking about someone else's work. And I may saying, Hannah, what if we were going to try and make a real change at a legislative level, what would you hypothetically go about it? And she was like, well, I'd use the existing legislation and I'd base it on this precedent and I'd format it like this. And I try and work with them. And then she's like, should we do it? And this do it.
And having that, the timing was perfect because again, having worked with hospo and my cafes are amazing and there's so many of them will answer my questions constantly as well. If you want to cut costs in this area of your operation, can you talk me through how you do it? What are the impediments I'm learning? I'm literally leaching knowledge from these human all the time.
So we found ourselves in a position where we actually did have knowledge of the industry that would be probably highest impacted by this and how it could weather that and become resilient and probably grow from it. And then we had Hannah and Liam, of course, who are, who are policy advisors, their legislation, knowledge, their activism knowledge was just like spot on. So, okay. We'll just, we'll just put it all together and again, use that as a vehicle.
So, so the idea was with takeaway throwaways, if anyone doesn't know is a petition corny on government to phase out and ban single use items in hospital. Pretty similar to the current government proposals as well, which we can talk about data maybe, but we really felt that it was important to, um, Pair that up with introducing and mandating accessible resources and alternatives. So not just take it away, this is what you use instead.
And to make that physically accessible for disabled community and financially accessible, and zero waste has got shrouded because again, there's marketing that comes with it and the light, you have to have $50 to spend on a fucking cup when you don't having a coffee itself is a privilege. You know, if you've got that $4 50, you can use a jam jar if you have to run, but then why would you run? Don't listen to them. You don't need to run to be successful, have a coffee in the cafe or something.
But so trying, trying to make sure that we had a national policy and asked the government for help in providing alternatives for the industry and for the consumer. So it wasn't a latest, no one fell through the gaps, you know? Um, yeah, but that, that kind of. Yeah, that kind of collaboration couldn't have happened without all of us having thousands of voices that we'd been fortunate enough to listen to and engage with previously, but it's not like that. Right.
It's like, you know, there's no original books, there's no original piece of music. There's no original creation. We're all just building on someone else's work constantly.
Uh, definitely. And you know, like I think that it's such an important thing that in all of the spaces that I work on, that how to do with changing our wire's changing our habits, it's really important. And I remember telling this, um, one day I was, um, And Dunham queen street here in Oakland.
And I was part of a, I went to check out one of the vegan activist groups and what they were doing, because that's not really my way, like they're being outward like that, but I wanted to see how it was done and everything. And I saw this kids talking with someone and that person was a fireman and they were pointing fingers. And like, and I'm like, all okay, where you're coming from. But what are the solution that you're giving him?
Like, if you are saying, like, reduce out of the takeaways, what are you doing instead of that? Like, what are you going to, what are they going to place instead of, because people are still need that. Thinking about, as you were saying, people with different abilities that needs certain, uh, access to certain things that are not as ECS, what we need to think of to be able to say, like, we need to reduce this, but this system, we do it. You need to change this.
And then it's like, oh, how do I do it? I don't know. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. For sure. Definitely having those, having those answers ready, which it kind of, again, is like, it's like parenting. I feel like if we could all just parent each other in a big loop, you know, like sitting on each other's knees in a rain, um, that kind of like providing the solution straight away, taking away those problems and issues.
Um, working with the disabled community, I'm really lucky to have some connections that I met through Hannah and Liam who have been really forthcoming with practical advice. If something works for the table community as a whole on 95% of that community, it will work for everyone, you know? So, so having those conversations before we started take-away throwaways, before we went live with that, they were the first conversations that we had. Um, And yeah.
So, so yeah, being really, really conscious of that and with you, yo as well, my messaging on my social media can be it's me, it's me personally. So if I'm having a shit day, I'm going to be like feisty. If I'm having like a love hug day, it's going to be love and hug, but I always try. And, um, and I can't really hide that, but I always try and say, it doesn't have to cost it doesn't have to be this and almost concentrate more on the alternative than the problem.
Cause the problems I think, yeah. You said before about the numbers with the science, they mean nothing, 295 million single use coffee cups pretty gives a shit. You can't even see it in your head. And a lot of big numbers are too big unless you turn them into the imaginary dogs or something like you can't really see it. So I almost, I almost don't really kind of go there with the problem. The problem is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we can do better.
We know that single use cannot be sustainable, full stop, whatever it's made of. If we can find a reusable solution, let's just concentrate on that and let's let single use just disappear on its own. When I first started, I really thought I had to pick a fight. I thought I had to fight with packaging companies that I had to engage with them. I don't look at them on social media. I blocked them not so they can't see me, but so I don't see them.
So I don't get led down that kind of pathway of focusing negative energy on a situation, which really has nothing to do with me. So just focusing on the positive alternatives and that's my coping strategy as well. And I'd like to hear from you how, how you cope with stuff issues with climate crisis, climate change. I can't look at the bad news anymore. I've made my decision. I know how I feel. I want to be part of a solution. I'm not looking. But the horror stories anymore.
I couldn't have more fire in my heart about it than I have. I'm not going to weigh myself down with what isn't possible or what can't be done. I'm going to totally seek out the sources of solution. And I don't know if it's naive, but I'm only looking at the good news. Yeah.
You know, I was sexually talking that day with some of the students that led the school strike for climate change. Um, about this, about anxiety and depression. Um, because I do think that it's such a important part of all of this. Um, I, what I, what I usually share is that different people will deal with this different. Some people we need to stop watching the news, going to social media. Like I'm following up this different people that are going to bring something positive.
And I went to scalp, like isolating on the, that negativity. Some people like me now, because I did that for a while. And now I'm in a different place. Now I can actually cope with all of that. Like I still don't watch the news. I don't read the newspapers and stuff like that, but I do open myself a little bit more to seeing some of that stuff. I it's just from being informed.
Like I, I, for some of the work that I do, I need to be a little bit more informed now because of all of the personal work that I've done on myself and understanding my own energy and my feelings, my emotions, now I can deal with like, okay, now I can introduce a little bit of this more negative views or energies and I can still be okay. And I think that that is where, like, it depends on where we are personally, how to navigate that.
But like, for me, this is not about, you know, I talked to someone super optimistic person. I'm like, yes, but not because I am not a realistic, but it is because I can see. Of what they are selling us. And I can see the amazing amount of people that are doing incredible stuff. I'm optimistic because of that, you know, it's like everyone, it's in a different place in being okay with that with everyone is to deal with it differently.
But, but I do think that we are, we need to take care of ourselves, went into our priority and we need to be number one into understanding. Like, no, I need a social media detox.
I've only just learned this. I've only just learned about this. I have my first a month or two ago, I was like, I can't do it. I'm going to take five days off. And I literally had to feed myself lies so I could justify doing that. And it was like method acting. I was like, what if both of my legs are broken? And I can't get to my phone, if that happened, then I wouldn't use the phone for five days and it would be okay. And like I tricked myself into these imaginary scenarios. Right.
It was fantastic. It was really wonderful. And by the end I missed the connections. I miss the people that I deal with and these relationships, and I was delighted to get back into it and really refresh, but it took me like two and a half years to fail, to get over my ego enough to understand that if I wasn't there, it didn't matter. You know, it was, yeah, it was, it was, yeah, it was a really, really kind of strange experience.
Going to be doing that again for sure, but that, that self care too. And I think as we were saying before, we started this podcast, I think 2020 obviously has been a dye year for so many people. And I don't want to speak about other people's experiences.
Um, and I'm again where I'm fortunate, I'm safe, you know, and the people that I love is safe, but having that focus on mental health, emotional, spiritual health, and being able to verbalize that and have that become more mainstream, especially in this sort of social media space, which is probably like 50% of my life.
Now, even if they're real people, if I compare, um, a couple of years ago, how common it was to have discussions about mental and emotional health this year, it's just been amazing. Um, We were going to talk last week, right? And then I canceled on you like two hours before I had something come up in my personal life. I had to be there for someone I called you and you straight away, like, that's just fine. Look after yourself, do what you have to do. We'll do this another time.
And that is coming up more and more people are allowing themselves to respond to their personal crisis or their personal needs, or even just saying today, I can't talk today. I don't have it in me to express what I need to say. Can we do this another time? And we're accepting that from each other. You know, if we can keep doing that.
And if we can expand that, which is really kind of ironic, I suppose, cause I'm doing that with sort of relative strangers on zoom calls, I'm doing it with, you know, like council Wasteman teams and saying, Hey, I can't come today because my heart is broken and I won't be able to do justice to this project. And we're like, oh, okay, well we should Hartwell.
Um, if we can carry that into our personal lives and have that integrity and openness with the people that we're close with, how strong can we be? You know, but it's really, it's, it's a strange disparity. I don't know if you kind of know what I'm meaning, but like, you know, in our personal relationships, there still seems to be for me anyway, those Brooks in honesty, where I'm getting better at doing them in my working life.
And the challenge for me now is to try and take that on and, and express that. Yeah. Letting go. Yeah.
Yeah. And you know, it's beautiful what you're saying, because I do think that we all come from a different Macron in different ways. And I know that. Um, depending on the dynamic of our relationships, there is a sense of authenticity that we might not allow ourselves to bring them to it. They will, because there's a sense of expectation because the dynamic is such that someone supposedly is expecting.
But what I teach a lot of the times when, when I'm running workshops or with my coaching clients about this, that we usually think that the other person is thinking something about us without that person telling us that. And it's like, I'm going to do this because they will expect me to do that. And it's like, wait, why didn't you ask them? Hey, like, you know, I see what I'm saying. Like, I don't feel that well today I don't have the energy to do this.
And would you mind if we rescheduled or would you mind if we just sit here and then talk or whatever it is, being able to do this on every aspect of our life, because this is one of the things that now I think this year has been actually, as you were saying, a lot of challenges, but certain things that have changed. And I know for a lot of people, um, there's a sense that life and work that there's less separation because for a lot of people work at home life, um, outside of work.
So getting those limits a little bit more blurry, allow some of this to start changing. And the more that this stops changing the model that. And that we do in life. That's changing because if I found one of the things from this year, a lot of people started to work remotely. It's just people people's habits. That means that most likely they are going to be at home.
That means that they are most likely making their own food and going out a little bit less commuting lists all of these different little things that perhaps last year, it was almost impossible for that could be a possible.
Yeah, yes, sure. My king, I love the food, but that's huge. And you smiled, you're smart. Your face grew when you said that, but again, having, having control back in your life, so one working from home, so you're working on your terms and if you want to wear jammies from the waist down, you can, which is amazing.
And I asked and, and also, yeah, the being out of feed yourself, instead of just like, well, I have this much time, so I can go this distance from my office, or again, the pressure the night before, when I dunno, people are like trying to get the kids home, like Donald this done, or get the laundry done, or even just breeze, um, to be out of.
Yeah, to be able to make your meals for yourself during your day, and then sit at your space with what you'd like nurturing yourself, and you have that extra time to realize what it is that you need to consume. You're not just consuming what's within this radius of your office space. Um, yeah. Conscious action awareness.
Again, like having one more thing in your life that you can think about process and make moral, ethical in nurturing choices about again, and with that caveat, always, which perhaps we can just have there on the screen, the knowledge that we are fortunate, if we're in a position to have those choices, something else that has come from this year as well. Right. I was talking to, um, Uh, family member in the UK and they work in the aviation industry.
So they are able to move around Europe because they accrue. And then he was kind of saying to me, but it's so frustrating, you know, I can't just get up and go at the weekend. I can't just go do this. I can't just go get something. And I was like, what you're describing is a situation that the majority of inhabitants of the planet face every single day. And I don't want you to feel bad about that because you you're like, what do you work hard for it or not?
We're gifted chance just gives us so many things and then what we choose to do with it or whatever, but, but just reminding ourselves. Yeah,
I take that always, like I know like I'm in a super privileged position. Um, and then know that again, the climate change, um, what are the Kevin's conversation? This is social justice as well, because so many people institutions, as you say, there's no choice. Like they are just surviving right at this moment, trying to survive. That's all that they care about. The kind of reusable, cardboard online, going to have a takeaway coffee. It's like, am I going to be able to live the next.
Yeah, this is of course, one of the massive frustrations, right. And the disparity of our cultures and societies at the moment too. And I'm sure almost everyone that's listening to this now has that thing, like, uh, we're trying to get to Mars, but how many of us have fresh drinking water? Um, and that's one of those things that I'll look at briefly and then say, I can't, I can't do that. That would immobilize me.
That would make me the guilt, the responsibility, the weight of that will stop me being effective in any way at all. You just, you can just sit and cry, you know, but again, going back to David Can I, how much money did I make this week? Can I seek out someone who is working in that arena or I've got to give them, I don't have skills. All I've got to give them is a percentage of what I earn.
So if that's going to people that medicines on frontier or someone and saying, right, okay, this is all right, this is what I've got. Can you please do something with this? So I can not, not forget or shrug off my feelings of good fortune or guilt or responsibility, but so I can focus on the small little space that I feel with triage, that I can have some kind of impact in the world that I can access, you know, using the good fortune that I have. And hopefully.
Being conscious of how that could ripple on an impact and could, could ripple through, you know, so yeah, trying to keep that,
and then that's the motivation for some people, actually that will be a motivational thing for some people, this is good. This is how we act and respond to different things. And in different ways, like some of us, we have that fight or flight or freeze different things and different people who would have been different than that. I think that's one of the, the thing of understanding, you know, like we are human beings and we still have to deal with some of these things.
What is it going to remind the driver? What is going to motivate me? What do I need to keep away so that I can actually keep on doing this? Because if not, that's going to make me stop.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And again, back to that, as you said, like self-care just taking care of yourself in all capacities, keeping yourself a combination of, of awareness and whether that's informed as in like really, really digging already looking into, and I understand that you, you need to, you're, you're interacting with a lot of people in a lot of fears, you know, so you, as, almost as respect to them, you need to have knowledge on where they're coming at you from so you can interact with them.
And that's your skill, right? As your messaging and your amplifying messages. Um, where for me, it is like just finally honing an area that I can work with and then my emotional energy. Um, I, I spend on all my family and I spend on myself, um, and I put my fight into this one area and trying to not. Yeah, to try and not paint my emotional ability with stuff that I'm just don't have the personal strength to deal with.
Hopefully, as you've said, as we grow and we become more confident and we come more resilient, not desensitized, but more resilient, then I can perhaps open up and then perhaps I'll move into a different phase where my area of being able to make a contribution could be different or larger or more
impactful. Yeah. But at the same time, that is not needed either way. Like, I mean like there's people that live like, you know, often grade or live on a farm and they don't watch the news. They don't know what is happening. And there's someone I'm sure that there's people around the world that this year they haven't even heard of the word. Right because of their life circumstances, we don't need to know everything with them. Need to be aware of everything. Yeah.
Yeah. And your license valid without that. Right? Like if, and if you, if the way you are living is in itself of a quality where you are doing minimal harm or no harm and protecting, like having your, your, your support core and the people you support be like three people or 300 or 3000, it doesn't really matter. Right. Again, back to what you're saying, like everybody's action totally does count.
It is enough in many senses now to do no harm in a lot of, in a lot of arenas, I think probably environmentally to do no harm. If you are seeing if that is being seen by other people who could copy that social activism. And there's a lot of issues as well, where to do no harm is not enough right now. But yeah, everyone has to
know. That's the thing, that personal responsibility, what we are doing the best we can with where we are unnecessarily for some of us that will mean not doing things worst. And for some of us who mean, I actually can make things better. That is where we are on in front of place. And I know that we can continue to come for like 10 days. Um, I want to, I want to honor your time on everyone to get into some of the last questions.
One of them might think that you started answering before, but what is one resource that you recommend.
The one resource for getting my own, um, would be the rubbish trip. The guys at the rubbish trip, um, rubbish ship, I think.co NZ, Hannah and Liam. They have information on that website and they are really accessible through their social media as well. They, these people will drop everything to communicate with you. If you have a problem or you have an issue about my counsel's not picking out this waistband, or what do I do about this, or this is something that's going on.
They will fight injustice. And if they can't do it themselves, they will take team someone else and they'll connect you and they'll listen, they're responsive their website. Um, Zero in low waste shopping guides, um, wearing your area, or if you're traveling to shop vegan or to shop ethical and not ethical as in like a tokenism gesture, that's fucking hardcore. If they say this is someone to support, it means that they've looked through everything.
There's not even a glimmer of greenwash with these guys. Um, they also discuss, um, actions that you can get involved and they kind of like demystify legislative processes. They teach us how to use our democracy. So if you're sitting there and you have 10 minutes where you actually want to engage in something, go to their website, have a scroll through and you will find in their podcasts and the people they talk with people that if you connect with will support how you're feeling in some way.
So that would be
the short answer, right? Yes. It's a wonderful resource. They are so great. For the ones that are listening to this episode, like we had them like a few months ago as well. So there's an episode that was also really good. So I really recommend everyone checking that out. This is one of the things for me that I found that it's part of the space where we are. I like, I have not competing with them at all. I would send people that go and take that out.
Like stop, listen to my podcast, coming to my events, let go and listen to them. If, if it does, it resonates more because you know that they are doing amazing stuff. Either need to do everything. So it's like, yes, please go and check it out. What is your one go to if, and to give it to someone
you just said it, that was it collaborate, lift other people, every opportunity you have that you are given to move forward, reach out and take people with you and just, just lift others constantly. And I kind of like, I try and do that with the work I do on social media, for everything that I do about you, yo take away throw wise. I will do three things about someone else, whether it's a small business or an individual or another group, and just, just lifting others, lifting others.
It makes sense on every single reason by being vegan, there is no reason in the world not to collaborate and lift someone else. It will never do you home. You know? So
yeah, that, that's an amazing one. I'm going on a personal level. Um, what has been your smallest of kindness lately?
That is between me and the recipients of my acts of kindness.
That's good. That's, that's an ass we can move on to.
Well, yeah, you just, just, I think, I don't know. And it's not that I think it loses its power if you tell, but I'm really trying. I really think that it's important to just be flagrantly, rabidly kind talking constantly. And you just sound like a Dick. If you say today, I did this, this, this, this, this, and this, but like, that's my goal for every day.
And if I get to like five o'clock and I haven't been timed, I'll just go out to deliberately find someone to give a compliment to, and I'm like, oh shit, what is it about them? Oh, shoes, good shoes. Like to just try and like, get the numbers up. So,
yeah. Uh, and, and, you know, that is one of the things that I remember. Um, growing up that there were different levels of giving and being generous. And they kind of like those levels were interesting because like the lowest level was doing something for someone that, you know, and they know that had done it. And the highest level of giving generous was given to someone that you don't know and them not knowing that it was you. So no one knows that,
oh my gosh, when you have opportunities to do that, like you get goosebumps, right. And you want to pay, it's like a complete bladder reaction. Like when you think, or if you just overhear that someone's done that, or you're in a position where you can do that yourself, you almost can't sleep. Like you just can't wait to just, yeah.
That's nice. Um, last question. What's the one thing that you wish that everyone in the world.
How to process and function within the reality of our own mortality, perhaps to be reconciled with a limited lifespan and then to factor in all living capital and on natural capital and our ability. So we can work back from that unknown point of inevitable death. That for some reason, our societies pretend that isn't going to happen. So it really kind of fucks a heads up while we're alive.
Um, and so you can employ your best self within that time to have, I can see it could go the other way and it could be sent in amount of an akin nihilism attached to that. But assuming that we have counseling, probably that being able to deal with the end game so we can do better with the
time. From my night, my practices and my, um, connection with the Buddhist teachings. There's a lot of emphasis on death and dying and actually having that too late. It's not about how Lummi and dark that is. It's about understanding. And as you say, like we are mortal beings, this isn't going to end, and I don't know when it's going to end for me. So what am I waiting for to actually live in my life as fully as I can. Yeah.
Yeah. Except that there's, there's a box around us that we cannot escape from and then live yeah. Live within that.
Definitely. Um, I'm not saying for everyone that doesn't know, can you mention briefly what is coming up? Because in a few days, once this is actually live in a couple of days, there's a day, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So we started this last year and it went really well. So we're doing it again this year on December the 11th. Um, um, we're having, uh, we've organized a national user own day or use your own cup day where we're working with the cafes. We're trying to work with anyone we can. And to individuals to say on this one day, just give it a go use your own, go to a cafe with your own and have that conversation.
If you see someone walking down the street with a reusable cop or a jam jaw, Sites and a nice jam jar. Take your own interact, do something small, pass it onto your family, pass it onto your work colleagues. Um, have a look on the, your website. There's a guides and signs button there. Click on that. And there's information about use your own cup day. And again, for like a quid pro quo. There's little posters there.
You can print this as this workplace will be supporting this initiative, print it out, stick it in your window. Take a photo, tag me on social media. I would applaud your real estate agency or your yoga studio, and we'll give love to you and, and just work it. And again, it is about using your own cup. Would you sing waste normalizing? We use, but mostly it's about showing each other that we give a fuck enough about each other to behave in a way that shows that we care.
It's such a wonderful word, because I did think a lot of times. When there are, I have this difficult or this view, whenever there's the day of something that I'm like, why isn't this every single day. But then I understand, you know, for a lot of people within that, we need to have one day that actually the emphasis is on this.
And then seeing that if you did this one day, Why not the rest of the day, but making sure that I'm one on one day, we actually take the time to celebrate all of the actions that have been taken. And that's how we actually have an impact. And having you there, we saw our name on social media, sharing all of that and being able to do, as you say, like share something about this and then three times about others.
Um, if you're in Wellington, we've got 16 cafes on the waterfront in Wellington who are all together going single use cup free for the day as a community, as part of launching a waste free waterfront initiative. So if you're in Weddington, hop down and support those guys, because again, that's a small act on one day, but if they all do it together, it's like when the light goes green, we all move. If they all see they didn't lose business to each other, they're all working.
And they've got each other's backs. And us as customers are supporting that, then fingers crossed. It will be every day, you know,
just in general, not only for that, where can people find you on social?
You on Instagram. I don't do Facebook. Fuck Facebook. Um, and I know Facebook, Instagram, so it's just the principle. You know, we all have run these false economies in our lives with our principals. Um, so yeah, we're, we're on you, yo dot said, and, um, I'm pretty much there all the time.
If you want to talk about waste, if your community needs some help, if your local farmer's market needs a mug library, if your virus school wants to get involved in stuff, if you have an idea of something that even vaguely touches on, normalizing, reuse, get in touch with me. And if I have any resources or can reach to anyone that can help you, I will always answer every message I'm always there.
And if you're just having a shit day and you want someone to just say, can you just tell me that you love me? Just send me a message.
So wonderful. So beautiful. Thank you so much, Laura, for taking the time for being here and sharing with us and for all of the amazing work that you're doing, because I do actually, it's changing the way that we do things as with all of the people in this space, you are being the change that we want to see in the world. So thank you so so much everyone that has been listening to this episode, please share your love, go and follow you. If you don't yet take part on the 11th of December.
And go to your cafe and shared it on social media and spread out so that we can continue to spread that message. And if you have learned something on this episode as well, we'd love to hear about it. So share your comments. Yes. With love to hear what you have to say and thank you for listening. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Laura.
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