Have you ever wondered whether the problems in the world today would exist? If we had deeper connection to ourselves, others and the environment and exited from
that place. Welcome to the conscious action podcast with your host, Brian Berman and Kayla Greenville who believed that connection. Keith to taking conscious action as individuals and creating a better world
to raise awareness and inspire meaningful action by sharing stories, knowledge and conversations with thought leaders and
changing from sustainability to wellbeing and everything related to conscious living our mission is to empower you to be the change that you want to see in the world. Welcome everyone to a new episode of the conscious contraception podcast. I am Ryan Burton and your host, and I have the pleasure for this episode. We'll be joined by Renee Williams. And first of all, we're there. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and just sharing.
Um, as I always do with all of our guests, I'm going to ask you to please introduce yourself to all of our.
Thank you, Brian. It's fantastic to be here. Uh, as he said, I'm Renee and I call myself a clothing repair advocate. So I'm just really, really passionate about amending cloves about raising the awareness that that's an option for people that it's something that. That, um, people can incorporate into their wives and that it's not difficult. So, yeah. Um, your Kiwi listeners will be able to tell that, um, Australia. Uh, I've been in New Zealand for two and a half years.
I've been lucky enough to live in quite a few different countries before New Zealand. And I think all of those experiences have contributed and impacted where I've ended up today.
Were you always interested in this side of mending and clothing and actually repairing clothing?
Not so much? No. It's been quite a journey. I, um, well I grew up in a family where sewing was reasonably normal. My mom's size a lot, and my grandmother was a professional seamstress. I. Probably dabbled in it a bit as a kid. Uh, so I, I was aware that that that was something that people did. Uh, I had an, uh, a bit of an epiphany when I had my second daughter and I was spending a lot of time at home as young mothers tend to do.
And I, I don't really know what caused this to happen, but I just was thinking about my grandmother and the skills that she has. And. I really need to learn before she's not here anymore. She has all this skill and it's just going to be gone. And so that was the start of a journey. And I have persisted with winning from that point on, and she's not here anymore. And I do have quite a lot of ferry equipment, which I love. And I, and I know that she was really happy that someone was taking it on.
I'm not especially amazing at sewing. That it's something that I like to do as a whole. Uh, so that's how that started. And, um, the first few years, the things that I made were really very average. Um, and I think it's, it's a real lesson to, to, um, allow yourself to be a beginner at something and to accept that, okay, I've made this thing and it's, it's really not good, but I'm going to keep trying. Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting, you know, how. And that, and I talk about this with so many different topics that around conscious living that Jewish generations ago, three generations ago, um, a lot of the convenience that we have in our days with the plastic products and fast fashion wasn't there. So people needed to have the skills to whatever they have repairing it and making sure that. Things last longer. Um, I didn't grow up with that. Like I never, when I was a kid, I never, I would do it.
So I would do things together. Like I never had that knowledge. It was actually something that for whatever reason, I thought that was quiet. Um, uh, we have things, you know, the thing sometimes like some women needing or doing something, you know, ah, look at that lady and how that shifted accordingly through the years. And I'm seeing the importance of it.
It's on my sense to say like, you know, being able to have the possibility to actually learn from your grandma and have that connection as well. That must've been a medicine.
Yeah, it was. And I, and I'm really glad that for whatever reason, that thought occurred to me, that, that, um, I felt like there was a time imperative that, that I needed to take it on. And, um, and yeah, and I, and I feel like now with, um, with teaching mending skills to people that hopefully I'm passing it on. To a wider audience.
And it's, it's interesting. And I do want to ask you this, how do people respond to it? Do you find it that most people, uh, are coming to it from like a curiosity space or from a place that they do want that skill because they need to repair because perhaps they can afford new ones.
Uh, it's probably a bit of both. I think, um, I think people that are learning these skills at the moment of people that are reasonably proactive and, uh, really recognizing that, um, that they can, um, you know, you can really make a difference. You can really, um, you know, if you, if you, if you have. Your favorite jeans, your favorite decade?
It's kind of like a bit of a, um, a superpower to be able to resurrect them and keep wearing them and then not have to go on and try and find those favorite, favorite items of clothing again. Um, I feel like a lot of, a lot of people, um, say to me that they. Uh, no good at it or that they had a bad experience at school. And so they tend to have that idea that, that it's very difficult or that it's not something that they are, that they are able to do.
Um, and in fact, both of those things are not true. It's really not difficult if you, um, are happy to, to be a beginner for a little while and to. That when you first learned something, not always going to be perfect. I mean, we've mending, we're not going for perfect. That's not the idea. And certainly I like to practice visible mending where we're not actually even trying to hide them in. We're just incorporating it, adding a bit of personality to the Garmin's supposed to look hands down.
It's not supposed to look like a machine or a robot did it. It's kind of. I think to the garment story, I
think. Hmm. That's that's a good thing. And I then do want to touch on a couple of things. I just mentioned. That beginner's mindset and allowing oneself to do something that doesn't perhaps outwardly look perfect. It's so important because until I actually learn and practice something, I'm not going to be perfect. Like perhaps someone had bad's already built in and they are amazing, but the majority of. When then that capacity of being over to Brian. And I think that that's so important.
And the other thing, you know, I mention, um, our relationship with our cloth. Um, and I was wondering if you can share from your experience, from your perspective. How is that for you changed now through this years that you've been mending clothes. What you see for the exercise in general?
Yeah, that's an excellent question. Uh, there has been a shift, um, towards. At a faster pace of, of purchasing clothes, that clothes, uh, um, you know, people over, over the last 20 or 30 years, they buy more and at a lower price point and therefore it's not made well, and it's not designed to last. Um, and if, if you put your time and effort into your clothes, you, you really come to appreciate them and you want to take good care of them. You've put your time and effort into.
Um, and so I find that that. That mindset also, I don't just look at, um, like fixing the problem of, of a repair when it needs to be done. I also thinking about that when I, uh, am going to purchase something and having a look at the clothes that the piece of clothing and thinking, is this something that I'm going to want to mend? Am I going to want to keep it for a long time and put my effort into it? Does it look like it's well-made is it going to lie?
You know, it's, um, I'm, I'm looking at it as a bit more of a commitment than just I'm going to wear it on Saturday. And then I have no thought about what's going to happen to it after
that. Um, my family, and this is like one of the things for me since, since I joined the fashion revolution movement. To be able to, to understand more about the impact that making that choice of buying a new government that perhaps I'm just going to use once or not multiple times, like that has a huge footprint. And for me to be able to, to see this from the perspective of, as you were saying, there's something that I'm going to be wanting to wear in long-term right.
If I actually buy something that is of good quality, um, then I know that I can repair it or put the. This might be throughout my entire life. Unless of course my body changes a chair in its shape, but being able to see that I learned from the fashion revolution, one of the, I dunno to call it the slogan, but it's the love, love clothes last. And I, I, I love that because it's like having that relationship with what we are wearing on the things that we.
That's right. And it's important too, to know. And I don't know, the general population may not spend much time thinking about it, but every piece of clothing in existence is made by somebody. We don't, they're not made by a robot. They're not made by machine they're made by hands. And so, you know, somebody has been paid. Well or not to produce it. And a lot of resources have gone into it as well. You know, the fiber has been produced and there's been a lot of water and it's chemicals and.
And, uh, yeah, so I think that's because they have some appreciation.
Yeah, definitely. And I think that it's very interesting, you know, I see you, it's just saying there's someone there's hands that are actually working on the cloud and all of those people actually have the skills that you are trying to share. Do you feel like everybody should know how to mend?
Well, I guess in an ideal world, I accept that. Not everybody's going to, going to learn and that's okay. But I think that, you know, there's a huge, there's a huge opportunity for many more people to have the skills. I, um, it'd be nice if we had a bit more, even if. Not everybody can manage, but there's enough people with that skill that maybe, you know, that could be a bit of a barter system, maybe meant something for me. And I can cook dinner for you. I don't know.
Um, yes. And I do love that, you know, that sharing economy and. I'm seeing things more from a community perspective, um, understand that not everyone is going to do everything within those that are going to be working on the land with those that are going to be taking care of children within those that are going to repair things. When you
try to do everything, you're going to feel completely overwhelmed.
Yes, definitely. What have you noticed in your experienced, um, you were saying that, you know, when you had your kids, that your perspective started to change, was it, um, partly. And I grabbed it from your grandma. Did you get a sense that what you were buying for your kids as well started to shift and what are you repairing? Some of it, because with kids it's very challenging because they can grow and they need a lot of different.
With kids. It is very challenging. Yeah. And it's, it's easier to justify a more expensive purchase for myself than it is for them. Absolutely. Uh, I think with kids, there is a lot of passing around. Like I give I'll give them to the neighbors and they will pass them around and.
There is that, um, there's definitely so in there's a lot of, uh, more ethical, uh, and sustainable clothing options becoming available, but I really haven't seen very much in the children's clothing space yet, but that's definitely an area, um, growth opportunity.
I actually, I saw some years ago. In I'm pretty sure that it was in Denmark. And, uh, there was a company that was actually renting, um, clothing company for. Um, that actually, like you were saying no, this with the clothes. And then once the arcade actually grows beyond them, you send them back. They send you the next, uh, Um, whatever you used, if it was needed, they hadn't seen stress and they had people actually repairing what could be repaired. Uh, so then that can be used by another kid.
And I thought, you know, that's such a nice, especially for kids that they grow and they change so rapidly, such a good system. Do you think that when that. It's everyone or in your experience, are people more open now to actually sharing clothes and renting clothes more than owning them?
I I've definitely seen. Yeah, I guess they, um, existence of clothing swaps and, uh, there's a huge, um, boom right now in, uh, like vintage resellers, that type of thing, where people do the legwork of going to find the gems in the thrift stores, and then they're selling them on their Instagram page or, um, wherever they are. And I mean, that's a great option. You don't have to, if you, if you feel intimidated, but you don't have time to go and look through all the items there they are.
They've been curated nicely. Um, so yeah, so that's a great option, uh, renting. I'm not so sure. Um, I think it's, um, possibly something that people do for a red carpet event. So that type of thing,
I do hope. Soon, we get more into that space because that means that the lesson garments had actually created a and they are set around because especially as you said, like, I see this more usually with women, there is this tendency in society to actually, um, having to. Not to wear the same thing twice or, you know, events or gatherings wearing the same thing. And actually, I remember I had it last year or two years ago. I can remember where get called.
Um, that's just one of our brand ambassadors that them, then you see them freshman week. She wore the same clothes every single day with like in the different ways. And that was such a big thing. And I'm like, oh, that's good. Especially for women, there is that societal pressure of changing. And I think that that's where perhaps the renting has a lot more potential
different that's right. And, and also possibly we're not as used to trying to reinvent our clothes in the, in the way that earlier generations have to be good at that, because that's the only options that they had. Whereas, um, whereas. It's been easier for us just to buy something new than to have to think about how could I, you know, make this look different and, yeah. Yeah.
It's interesting. I, I helped most of mine claw, actually. I had the same for the last 15, 20 years. Um, It's interesting looking at photos. And I always say the same. It's like looking at my photos from one of my trips and different things. I'm like, I'm wearing the same dish, the same thing. And I'm like, actually that's pretty. Yeah, it is pretty
cool. Um, I don't want, I don't want people to feel worried that this idea is that you can't buy anything that you have to wear the same clothes for ever and ever, because, I mean, it's not about that. It's really more about just being mindful, slowing down, not just using impulse, buying as some kind of, um, I dunno, activity that happens without really a purpose.
Yes. And what do you think that in terms of about what's the place of shopping? Because I know for some, like here in New Zealand is quite a big deal, like in Argentina, Oh, right. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And it's certainly becoming, people are becoming more aware of it. The profile of, of art shopping seems to have grown. It used to be, uh, in previous times it was a bit. I have an unusual hobby, but it seems to be a bit more mainstream now. Um, I think also, um, on the note of options, it's also important to be aware that. Thrift stores generally don't have the capacity to repair things that you donate to them if they need repairing.
And most likely they'll end up in the landfill because they don't have capacity to do that. They really can only do. Things that are, that are in resellable quality when they're delivered to them. But I think it's a fantastic option. Um, you know, I think all these options are probably things that we should incorporate more.
And would you be able to share a little bit about you send me the other time, some information about would you be able to share a little bit about.
Yeah. So Carhartt is a, an organization that I volunteer for. They, um, I was set up not so long ago, um, by Charlie Cox and she was volunteering in an op shop and she saw that some people were not able to purchase clothes from the op shop. Uh, and so she thought she felt that that having. Some decent quality clothing was really a human right. And so she offers, uh, she collects donated clothes and she offers them, uh, to people for a pay what you can system.
Uh, so I, you know, when I read about what she was doing, I thought, wow, that's really is just so special. And I thought I could really help out. And so I. Help her out with mending things that are donated and I'm, I'm not the only one. She does have other people helping her with that as well. Uh, and then another thing that we do is sometimes clothes are donated to her that are not suitable to be handed on.
And so we've been re-purposing them like cut them up and make them into, uh, small bags and she's had donations. New underwear and sanitary products. And she packs them up and make some little packs to give out to people. So we're really using all the available resources because those clothes would otherwise go to landfill. Otherwise, if we didn't come up with a new use for them, so,
yeah. And that's incredible. And I go, I was, I was reading up on it and, and I do think that it's such a big deal because. The amount of laws that are created and the amount of them that ended up landfill. Um, not only it's shocking, but also it's a problem that we have on the same with food, the amount of food that we waste. And at the same time, there are so many people that are not.
I'm able to actually get food or clothes because their life situation easily say like, just being able to have them be part of sharing, like a piece of clothes and if needed to be repaired, it can be repaired, but there is so much there available. Exactly.
Yeah, that's right. It's really about getting the resources to the places where they're needed. Yeah. Joining an amazing
I'm with you as well. If we are supporting that and I'm with that, I wanted to ask you where the people like. Started on, like, what's the first thing to get people interested in mending.
Yeah. That's a great question. I think taking notice of your clothes, having a look at them and seeing what they're made out of is, is a first step it's sort of deepening your relationship a little bit. And then there's a lot of resources. There's, there's a lot of resources online. You can, you can find anything on YouTube. If you need to replace a button, you can find it, uh, or another great option. You're talking about. The sharing economy is, is asking somebody to show you how to do it.
I'm sure that, you know, there might be someone in your network who, who knows how to do it. Who could show you. Well, then you can look at often community centers might have, um, events or, uh, there's classes and those kinds of things as well, if you really want to get,
um, definitely. I remember when I was living back in California, um, it was, I had to actually learn for the first time, uh, to use a sewing machine. Um, and I remember. Um, before actually doing it, I was like, oh my God, this is quite daunting. Uh, whereas I never had, when I was a kid, um, then realizing, ah, this is actually nice. And this I had to use, um, my, my focus and there was a time that I was just sitting there and I had what I needed to do. I was. Um, meditation cushions.
Um, it was just, you know, like making sure that everything was moving correctly and that I kept them going and that I felt now, as you were saying before, it's not that challenging. Um, Um, the experience of doing it felt really good.
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I actually, most of the mending that I do, I do by hand, even though I do have a sewing machine, but I've actually come to prefer working with my hands and. It's it's that really precious time where your hands are busy, which gives you a mind space. Possibly other people might meditate or they might exercise or whatever it is. It's that time where your, you know, your hands are busy and you can just process what's going on.
Yeah. And that was, that was, um, that was behind my, um, the name of my business, which is that perfect hour, which was that, that, you know, the slowing down, there's just focusing on what you're doing and just having a bit of quiet time and peace. Yeah.
I was just saying it for mental health now that. Mental health issues are being more prevalent and of course, as well with the lemmings and everything, but through the last decade or so, um, having that time of connection of slowing down, uh, it's so important then. My friend Clara from Maggie love. Um, she uses actually, um, the meeting us in a sense of place of connection with people on mental wellbeing.
Uh, I think that it's so, so such an important thing that now seeing, you know, especially when we were talking about inequalities and things like that, If people knew more of how to do this, then there might be, you know, grandmothers that are taking care of the kids and actually using the skills of doing that. And if they don't have that money, resources to buy new things, repairing what they have, having that connection with the kids passing on that knowledge,
the sense of self-reliance is really nice as well. Um, I mean, paying somebody to do a job is fine, but it's also really nice to know that you can take it on yourself, you know, and you just, you don't know what you can achieve until you try.
Yeah. And they find it with most with your cell phone, with people that you teach, they find that they start actually not only repairing amending their clothes, but that starts to spread into other things.
It certainly can. Yes. I mean, once you, once you feel confident with mending and then you can start to think, oh, maybe I could take those pants up or maybe I could just change the hemlock or maybe I could, you know, and then, and then you can reinvent, you know, I get more into, into sort of upcycling and yeah, I had one student say to me, oh, all the, all the pants that I've thrown away and I didn't need to do that.
So interesting. Having grown accustomed, the majority of people to be able to throw things away, I'm buying new stuff. Or even as you said, like just send me into some ones that are repairing things. Like I am a lot of times quite aware of that I didn't grow up with, you know, like if the chair writes down, repairing it by myself, it's either saying to someone or buying a new. Um, and I then learn those skills.
Um, as I said, I could feel so empowered to actually be able to do things and to, to repair what you have and not to do, how to rely on others, to do some, you know, perhaps potentially smaller.
Yeah, it's actually one of, one of my, um, real feelings, sense of achievement was when my daughter said to me recently, mommy, my socks have got a hole. You need to down my thoughts. And not that I'm thrilled about dining socks, but the fact that she knows that socks, socks can be done, I felt pretty good because I don't know how many other children of her age would wouldn't know
that. Oh,
she, she maybe not quite up to that. She's um, she's definitely learning.
Um, I'm interested for those that are interested in studying what are the basics? Not only on skills, but on things that we need. Do we need to have a kid that we need to have a machine? What's the beginnings.
You really don't need much. And I'm sure that most people could probably rustle up the things that they need already, from what they've got at home. You just need some kind of basic sewing needle. You need some threads, you may need some buttons. If that's what you're replacing. Uh, yeah, you think you can get pretty far with that. So there's a very low barrier to entry.
Yeah. I mean, as you, as you get experience, you can, you can certainly see that, um, you know, you might choose to invest in some nicer tools because it makes your job easier, but certainly to start out, you really can get by with some very basic tools.
Um, and then tire, uh, you mentioned before the minimal visible mender. Um, do you feel that that makes it in a sense, more accessible for people that feel, you know, perhaps they're mending is not perfect yet and as well, religious creativity?
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if you take that pressure off yourself that it doesn't have to be invisible or perfect, I think, you know, there's, there's no limit to what you can, what you can do, and you can really. Play with it and have fun and yeah, I mean, absolutely. Um, unleash the creativity. And I think that the visible mending helps, um, uh, because it looks really interesting. It becomes a talking point.
You know, if you're wearing a visible clothes, visible, visibly mended clothes or. Posting about it on social media and the photos are really, um, yeah, that stands out and it, and it's, um, it looks great and it's different and people engage and they're like, wow, that's really cool. Um, and then you can start a conversation and say, well, actually this is, it's not that difficult and we're not trying to make it look perfect.
We are, we're having, having a bit of fun with it, adding some personality. Um, yeah. So yeah, it really is an opportunity for creativity.
What kind of been some of the most creative wise of mending, like with
Wow. Well, I think, I mean, the sky's the limit it's, um, I, I personally have taken a lot of inspiration from a traditional Japanese. So she goes stitching, which is absolutely beautiful. Uh, I certainly don't call my work. So she co because I'm not, um, trained in that, I just really appreciate the style. And, um, I like to use the, so she go thread because it's really a beautiful, thick cotton thread. Very strong makes it, and it makes a beautiful manner and it, um, it goes really well.
It looks beautiful and goes really well on jeans. So, uh, yeah, it makes really beautiful, uh, white stitching it's often done in geometric patterns. Yeah. So that's, um, that was, I think the thing that really, um, Piqued my interest in, in learning how to do that. Definitely.
Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. And you know, I, there are, I think there must be something from the Japanese culture. I don't know so much about they do have from not just from growth, from about with, um, some different products that. And that sense of repairing. And I can remember from the top of my head now, the concept, but it's the basically no different that you have, like a mag or a bottle or something like that.
Actually having Miserables a lot of times for the gold and other things like actually repairing it. Um, it's seeing that imperfection actually, it's what makes it.
Exactly and makes it unique. It's not the fame of what everybody else has. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I see a similar thing with, with the especially go switching and I mean that, um, practice arose out of absolute necessity. Um, but that they managed to make things beautiful. Regardless of the difficult circumstances.
And how have you been finding that people when they take your workshops, that how did they respond in dental, Sophie, you know, what they need to do and how on how much do they carry on with that?
Yeah, it's really one of the most fun aspects of getting, getting some feedback or photos back afterwards of things that people have mended. I recently did a, a series of workshops and when we got to the last one, one of the students was wearing a jumper that she had done from the. Workshop. And that doesn't completely made my day. Yeah. That she had, she'd taken the skills from the previous one and she had run with that and, and that's sort of amazing.
It's really, um, it's really heartwarming, but it also kind of shows that, that, um, you don't need a lot of learning time to, to, um, be able to put those skills into practice and, and be applying.
Yeah. And what's because I do think that some of this spaces are mostly female skewed. They find that many men are learning this and are using these skills.
I would agree with you a hundred percent. Um, I. Yeah, it's hard to say, but I think you know, of, of the people that follow me on social media, I think maybe 2% might be men. Yeah. It's very small.
Yes. It's very interesting that I've been talking a lot lately. About, uh, on everything that has to do about conscious action and conscious living. It's interesting seeing how a lot of things on their well-being industry and the zero waste. And the fashion revolution, most of it is women. And I wonder, you know, what, all of the time, like, what do, what can I do to make a shift in that and get men more interested in this?
Because this is not, I don't know if it feels like it's quite the feminine thing and that's why I didn't do it. Or, or what's the thing I still have.
Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. That's the real challenge I could, I can see men maybe becoming more involved in the gardening or the composting or growing their own food. Maybe that's a way in.
Yes. It's interesting.
I mean, of course sewing has always traditionally been seen as something that women do and for whatever reason. Yeah.
Interesting. Yes, definitely. And I think that that's a thing for me with all of the work that I'm doing is as I say, finding that Andrew way, because. We get interested that starts spreading to almost every aspect of our life is we allow ourselves to, to be open and, and create the change from there. I was wondering if you can share with everyone one resource that you, that would be beneficial for people to check.
I think checking out fashion revolution is a great place to start. I think they, they really provide a huge amount of resource and information about lots of different aspects of, of what. What, what things could be changed within the, within the current fashion system. You know, they talk about the environmental situation, what's happening with the garment workers, what's happening also about what, what you can do as an individual as well, and then provide really tangible things that you can do.
So, yeah, I think that's a great place to
start and you feel how only one tip that you can give to people? What would that.
I think I alluded earlier, but really that, that things that are worth learning take time and effort and that's okay. It's okay to be a beginner. It's okay. To, to try something and feel for you not to be happy with the outcome in the beginning, but that things that are worth learning, you know, it's worth your time to, to put in a bit more effort.
Yes, that's a good one on a, on a personal level. What has been your legs? A small act of kindness.
Yeah, this is the tough question. No, not that I don't think I'm kind, but it's hard, you know, it's hard to, um, it's hard to think. I, well, I, I, quite often, when I'm walking home with the children, I always pick up rubbish and, and they see me and they mom, you went to McDonald's. No every time I say, no, I find Lilly rep is in my pocket. I picked them. I love the,
I actually liked a lot of stamps. I find myself coming into the office in the morning and picking up whatever they find on the. Um, Ryan KFC and I'm like, no, that was just on the street though. But it's interesting because you know that when people see us and if they don't have the full story and that's the interesting thing, not me. What. Showing to the world. It's very interesting. Especially nowadays in social media and stuff like that.
Yeah.
So, interesting. What is the one thing that you wish that everyone in the world?
Uh, well, I guess, I guess it would be really handy to know that that mending is not difficult, but even though it might seem difficult to get it started, it's actually really. Quite easy. Yeah.
And how can people learn a little bit more on photo you on, on take part of some of the learnings?
Uh, so on, on social and online. Yeah. They can find me there.
Cool. And are you running things online and in person, right.
Yes, of course COVID has, um, kind of forced that I have been doing some workshops on zoom, which, um, I'm becoming more comfortable with as we go. And I mean, it's had the advantage that it's opened up my, um, To people that are not necessarily close by. So yeah, we're taking the good with
wonderful. So I'm going to share it on the episodes now it's for the little one that wants to go and check it out that perfect hour, uh, check out some of the workshops. If you're in Auckland, perhaps. If it's possible in person and also online, I do hope that if you've been listening to this episode, that you actually get some inspiration to try and give it a go and learn some skills. Um, if you already do that, I would love for you to share what has been your experience.
Um, perhaps certain, some photos of your work, there will be. Um, but thank you so much for taking the time to be here for the work that you're doing into trying to make this more accessible for people and hopefully reducing our impact on our footprint and what we do with our clouds. Thank you. It's been really fun. Wonderful. So thank you everyone. And we'll see you on the next episode. Bye.
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One easy action. We would love for you to take right now is to share like, and subscribe to this podcast. This will help us get these messages out into the world and inspire more people to take conscious action in their own lives. Contributing to the better world we hope for.