Have you ever wondered whether the problems in the world today would exist if we had deeper connection to ourselves, others, and the environment, and acted from that place? Welcome to the Conscious Action Podcast with your host, Brian Berneman and Kayla Greenville, who believed that connection is the. Key to taking conscious action as individuals and creating a better world.
We are here to raise awareness and inspire meaningful action by sharing stories, knowledge and conversations with thought leaders and change makers from sustainability to wellbeing and everything related to conscious living. Our mission is to empower you to be the change that you want to see in the world. Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Conscious Action Podcast.
I am Brian Berneman, your host, and for this episode, I have the pleasure to be joined all the way from Victoria, Australia, just across the ocean here by Stephen Milverton. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and for sharing this episode, and for those that are listening, who is Stephen? Ah, well thanks Brian, and, and thanks for having me as a guest on your podcast.
First of all, I'm really grateful for anyone that's, uh, willing to sit down and, you know, do podcasts and have this chat. So, who's Steven? Um, at the moment, I'm a very happy, heart driven individual. Uh, that's where my journey has got me to. Uh, it probably wasn't the journey that I've been on for, for a lot of years, and we, we can definitely be chatting about that, but certainly as at the moment, I just, I, I'm just very heart driven. I'm just full of love, joy. I own joy.
Every morning when I wake up, it's like I got to breathe. I get to have another day here, um, to get, to spend time with people. And every night when I go to sleep, it's the same thing. There's a lot of gratitude for what took place during the day, so, I'm in a really beautiful place at the moment, and I think that's the best way to, um, introduce me or describe who I am at this point in time. Beautiful. Thank you.
Yeah, we were talking about, you know, all of the labels that, that we use for ourselves and, and of course the labels are helpful for interactions and are helpful for. Certain agreements that we have in terms of our place and our role in different aspects. So I am going to invite you to share some of those levels with us because the more that we allow ourselves to just be, the more that there is nothing in a sense, and I know based on our conversation.
What you do is, is, is really beautiful and really necessary as well, uh, in, in this time. So would you be able to, to share a little bit around that? Absolutely. So, uh, so from, from that aspect, I'm from Australia. I'm definitely Australian. Um, born down in, uh, Southwest Victoria in Australia, and I'm back down living down here near the coast. Uh, my day job is an IT program manager. Um, so delivering large IT projects, that's what I do. Uh, I suppose that's what.
Pays for the lifestyle that, that I've got. I enjoy that cuz I get to interact with people every day. And, you know, and, and I get to work on really large, challenging projects that, uh, I suppose for me stimulates my brain. Uh, outside of that, I, um, I have an, an initiative called the Unearthed. Unearthed man.
The unearthed man is, uh, predominantly a podcast itself similar to this, but it's actually just talking with men about the journeys that they've been on, um, the challenges they've had in life. So it's to create a shared open space for men to feel safe so they can share all their vulnerabilities. Um, my podcast has a simple message that the right message will meet the right person at the right time.
And so having a variation of men come on and, and talk to their journeys, then there might be another man go, Oh my God. Like he's talking to me. That's exactly the challenges I've been through, and I can see how they've come out of it. Maybe there's, there's an option for me, which is, you know, not the path that some men, uh, unfortunately go down to. And statistics will say, seven out of nine men will seven outta nine suicides are men, which is really tragic.
So that's part of my podcast initiative is to show men that, you know, there is a path out of whatever challenges that they're. Uh, and outside of that I've got a, um, a business which is around career empowerment coaching. So I'm a career empowerment coach, and I take people through a bit of a journey who have got to somewhere in their careers and go, Is this it? Like, is this really what life's about the mortgage, the, the kids living in the middle of suburbia, You know, just.
Is it meant to be this mundane or is there a much more beautiful life? Am I meant to have this stress and anxiety in my life, or is there a path out? So I work with people in, in helping them see the light, if you like, and, and helping them move away from all the externalizations that that take place. So, you know, my. My piece at the moment, and part of whether it's the labeling or not, is my view at the moment is society is all about outsourcing. We outsource everything.
We outsource our happiness, we outsource our shopping, we outsource, you know, where I get my entertainment from, you know, um, outsource, you know, whether that be through drugs or alcohol or you know, Netflix or social media, everything. Appears to be that how quickly can I outsource something because then that helps me chase my happiness.
And the challenge with that is that when that's taken away from you, The, the alternative path at the other end of the pendulum is, you know, sadness and, and lack of happiness because all the things that I, that I attach to are no longer there. So part of my, my journey as well, I'm working with others, is to see.
How can they actually achieve internal happiness, which is, you know, as I said, where I started with myself, I've found that through, you know, being heart driven and actually being of service to people and, and working with others and, and that just gives me inner joy and therefore I don't really need all, all the other external activities. Having said that, I've been down that path.
I, I, I've been down the addiction path, I've been down those areas to try and actually, I suppose, numb myself and, and find ways out of, out of, um, you know, sadness and, and out of anger and out of frustration. And so I. This has been a good journey for me to, to land to where I am. Beautiful. And I have a few follow up questions about that, but would you mind sharing Steven A. Little bit about that part of your journey?
Like what, what was your life like, um, where did the transformation started to happen and how did, did that go and how it's still going? Yeah, no, absolutely. Definitely. Brian. So the. So, you know, the, the background stories of me is I, I grew up small country town, two brothers, one older, one younger. So, you know, whether you call it middle, middle child syndrome, whatever, again label you wanna put on it.
Um, my dad was a school teacher and my mom worked in the bank and then in a local Medicare office. So, you know, they just all had standard jobs. Everyone from the outside looking into our life, we were the perfect little family unit, you know, brought up Catholic, go to church every Sunday, you know, going to Catholic schools. Always, you know, going to sporting events and everything else.
So, so I had friends and had other people around me like, you know, you just got these fantastic, beautiful parents and you know, what a great life you've actually got. The, the challenge is, is that, you know, that's the equivalent of what we see on all the social media pictures these days. How easy it is for me to put out what my perfect life is. Now, behind those closed doors, there was nothing like that.
You know, from as young as I can remember, I was in competition with my two brothers, you know, in, in the world of, Any attention's good attention. When you have an older brother who's, you know, bigger, bigger than you, then you know, you gotta get to attention some way. And then you have a younger brother that's always the, you know, the youngest in the family sort of thing. So I was always in, uh, competition, always in fighting, you know, I grew up in, you know, in that thing.
So whatever my brother did in sporting sense, I had to do. If he could, if he, if he could run a hundred meters in 13 seconds, I'm gonna run in 12 and a half seconds. If he could, if he could, uh, win a best, in fair at baseball and juniors, I'm gonna win a best in fairest. Like, everything that he did, I just had to continue to top him. And, and so that was just this constant competition, competition, competition.
Uh, and so for, What also happened outta that was because of the competing, you know, there was this sense of ongoing, I suppose, frustration and anger. And, and so for me, the competition was more about seeking attention for my parents. Like, how do you get in a family where there's three boys? How do you get the attention?
So my mine ended up being, you know, more about playing up and being the rebel and, um, you know, and being the one that would, you know, argue a lot with parents and push back with the parents. And so, You know, pretty much from the age of 12 onwards, I never, I never had a real, I never had an emotional relationship with my father. I did with my mother, um, but not with my dad.
So there was always conflict, constantly, you know, with my dad and, you know, and, and like, Unlike others who, you know, who might have had some really bad traumas in their life, you know, like violence and, you know, growing up with alcoholic parents, everything else that wasn't in my family. Like my parents, as I said, had beautiful relationships, had really nice friends, but again, it was like, how do I actually get the attention in this family?
Uh, the other thing is innately I'm a very emotional person, uh, who. Just, um, I suppose wanting to be consoled and wanting to actually be seen at an emotional level. Um, my dad, His father fought in globally, um, which is you are based in New Zealand. I'm based in Australia. So Anzac Day, um, you know, something we celebrate every year. And so that's very close to my heart. But my grandfather came back and he was unemotional. He was scarred from the war.
So my dad, who was nine years younger than he's. Next sibling basically had grew up in the family with no emotion at all. My mom left at the age of 15 and she had alcoholic parents and abusive parents, so she had no emotion. They had to survive for the soul. So, you know, that's where we ended. That's where I landed. They didn't know the. How to hug. They didn't know how to cuddle. They didn't know how to just give true love. It was a very practical upbringing relationship.
And I think that's where I struggled because there was a lot of abandonment that took place through that, that areas. So again, how would I get past that? Well, then I would play up, um, at the age of 15 I found alcohol, um, so myself and, and. Picture 10 out the backyard of my parents' place and we went in and, you know, started to drink and then that was it from, from that point of view. So from 15 to 32 I just drank very heavily. Um, so alcohol was a big part of my life.
And then from about 1819, I would, I found pornography. So my two outlets were pornography and alcohol. Um, never got into drugs. Drugs or gambling.
I never actually got into, funny enough, uh, from, from the addiction point of view, but certainly there was probably enough in, in those two spaces, you know, that resulted in a lot of, um, challenging relationships that I had because I didn't have any emotion when I was going out with, you know, trying to find a partner, you know, that would've I. Often end up in arguments and fights with, you know, um, alcohol driven fights.
Um, I was also quite angry and frustrated, you know, so even going through school, you know, I, I, I was friendly with everybody, but I never had, I had a couple of close friends, but that was about it. But there was always, I would always blow up. There'd always be this venting and this frustration that would come out, and that kept playing over and over throughout my life. I got to met, met. Now wife, my current wife, I've only ever had my wife by the way.
Um, so, um, so I, well, I was engaged and, and that broke off again. That was just a really tumultuous, uh, relationship. Um, lot of alcohol, lot of, you know, lot of fights and arguments. But yeah. Um, I met my wife when I was 28. She was, she was 18, 19. You didn't actually. Didn't realize there was a 10 year gap. And then we had our daughter 18 months after we, we got together and, and then basically about five years after that. So yeah, we got together about 2000 and, sorry, 97.
And then five years after that, um, when my daughter was born, my son was born, I just made a decision that it was time to get off the alcohol. I'd had a major event that had taken place. I just drank all day and my wife ended up coming meeting. Um, myself and some friends at the pub, she'd organized the kids to be babysat and, and she'd done all this work to try to get in, and as soon as she turned up, I'm like, We're gotta go home. I'm just too drunk. And that was a big turning point for me.
So, yeah, in 2002, I, I gave up the alcohol, um, went straight cold Turkey, didn't do AA or anything else, but you said, that's it, you know. Um, and yes, thankfully, you know, bit over 19 years later, I haven't, still haven't touched a drop, and it's the best decision I've ever done. So, cleared that addiction for. I was still heavily, um, you know, watching pornography behind my eyes back.
And then of course, computers come in and, you know, you're sneaking through, you know, whenever you can, you know, trying to clear your case, all of a sudden your computer's full of virus. I dunno how that's happened. Again, must open something wrong. You know, all these hiding, shame, guilt that we just keep carrying through, through our lives. And so that sort of, that, that continued on for, for a period of time. Um, my kids grew up with an angry, frustrated dad.
Uh, you know, I was caught in, which is, you know, at the start when I talked about, you know, the, the career empowerment and, you know, is this all there is? That was me. You know, I, we had a house in suburbia. Our kids going to nice schools. I would, you know, spend an hour or so going to work. Work all day, hour or so coming home, be your trainer driving, you know, get home, cook dinner, watch whatever rubbish was on television, You know, go to bed, rinse and repeat.
Do the same thing over again, and do the same thing over again. And you're like, there's gotta be more to life than this. And, and that was it. I was just stuck in these, this mundane routine, no inspiration, no joy, no happiness. And that just kept resulting in. Um, and. I had no. Understanding of emotions. I had no understanding of storing of emotions and what took place, what would actually happen is about every three odd weeks I would explode. Mm-hmm.
, you know, like whether it be over a simple thing about stacking, un stacking a dishwasher, or my daughter leaving clothes all over the place, like I would just have this big eruption and people would disappear. You know, my wife would disappear off to the bedroom because she couldn't handle it, which is fine. My daughter would go here and I'd have arguments, you know, and, and you know, and this was just what kept. Mm. And again, I had no understanding.
I had no one that would say, Hey, that's not right, or No understanding about how these emotions worked because I'd stored up all this trauma. I, I'd created this person who, you know would, and then the way I saw it was, it's just like a. It's like a kettle, you fill up with water, right? You fill it up and then you put it on the stove and eventually, you know, it just boils and it explodes and then, and then it whistles and it just keeps going.
But once, once you've released the pressure and you turn the heat off, it all cools down again. And that was me that was just going up and down through the jo. So, you know, and that went on for. Well, my daughter's, what, 25 now? So that was like 20, 22 years that continued on this, this, this routine. Probably take a step back. I look back at my kids and I always said I, I'm not going to be the father that my father was. Mm. When I look back, I was exactly the father. My father was , right?
So we all wish to have something that we're not. But normally, unless we, we actually take time out to start to do some inner work and some deep self-development work, we don't end up, you know, doing anything about it. In 2000, I actually went and did a course. It was all.
When I look back now, a lot of the tools I, I now know and I'm reading about now, and I'm slowly growing into now, I actually learned back in around about 99, 2000, which is all about consciousness, conscious behavior, subconsciousness, how we, how we listen for trigger words and how we use those trigger words to come back and how that's all based on our conditioning and everything else.
But I, I, I knew it theoretically because that's where I was at that point in time, but I had no idea about how to embody it. I had no idea because my body wasn't ready. Mm. So that, that sort of took place. And then, so I'm gonna sort of project forward. So, you know, my kids grew up in this angry household. My, my daughter. Became antagonists with me. So her and I would actually be arguing because she was very much like me.
My son actually become quite demure and he actually went, he, he sort of retracted, so he, whereas my daughter would explode and allow all our emotions out, then her and I would have these reactive fights. My son was the other way. He would, he'd actually ended up being exactly like I was actually hiding away from the emotions and not wanting to share them at all. Around about 2018. Um, so, you know, so to, to put that in age aspect, I'm 51 at that point in time.
Um, well, let me take a step back about the age of 49. My dad and I hadn't hugged, like we, we would catch up all the time, but we would never hug. There was always this barrier, energetic barrier between us where I just couldn't step into it. Decided to take a boxing, cause I loved boxing and I just started to take a boxing, and then I got this point where I, my right elbow was so sore, like I literally couldn't, couldn't even use my right arm to throw a punch.
And I went to Dr. Physio, you know, um, Acupuncturist. I ended up going to a chiropractor and I, I, it was a holistic chiropractor. Um, so this is, so about 20, um, so it must have been 2016. And I walked in, sat down with him, and he's looked at me and I'm, I'm used to what chiropractors tend to do and he's gone, Right? So what's going on? I go, You know, so why can't this? He goes, It's easy. You got dad issues. I'm like, What? He's like, Yep, you got dad issues.
And then I just broke out, like just broke into tears in, in front of this guy. The first time I'd ever met him. He said, Yeah. He said, You're all, I can tell, you're all rolled over in your shoulders. You're carrying the weight of this relationship with your dad about how oppressive he's been on you and how you feel. You've never met his expectations and he hasn't done anything for you. And I'm like, Oh, hang on. That's all a bit bit strange.
So he's pretty much, I wrote a. And as the universe would work, as I know how the universe works, I was meant to be working the next weekend after writing the letter and whatever was on got cancel. So I rang up my dad and today I'm coming down to see you dropped in there and I said, I've got this letter I need you to read. Told him all the, you know, here's everything I love, but here's everything that I've been carrying since the age of 12.
Here are all the things that I've been that I use the word hate in the letter. Here's the things I've hated that you did through my life. And you know, my mom didn't like the word hate. I'm like, Mom, it's got nothing to do with you between me and dad. But you know, dad read out the whole letter. And it was interesting because he had this sense of. He'd been carrying all these things for 40.
Or 37 years or what happens to be, And it's really interesting how two grown adult men can be so stubborn in their lives. And then, so he wrote the, he read the letter, we talked through a number of the items, and we just cleared the air. And then ever since I saw him after that, he died two years after that. But up to that point in time, we could, every time we saw him, we would embrace and hug and hold each other. And it was such a powerful thing to have done.
And I just wish that I had known all this so much earlier, which again, which is why I'm sort of now doing what I'm doing because I don't want people to have to have this, that length of journey in their life with their, with their relatives and their parents. So that then started me on this new path of, hang on a minute, that maybe there's something else out there about what's happen. So I cleared it with my dad, but I knew there was still something wrong.
So I, I went away for a weekend, an Anzac Day weekend. It must have been. Yeah, around 2017, I just knew I had to leave. I said my, I've gotta go away for the weekend. I'm not telling you where I'm going, but every day I'll be back in phone range and I'll ring you to say I'm okay. And I did that and I just went camping on my own and funny enough, I got sick. Um, which again was just a body's. Physical reaction to me, letting some emotion out, but, you know, came back from that.
But I had no tools around that. I, my, my intuition told me what I had to do, but I had no tools in how to support that. Uh, so in 2017, I, I, I went and did that 2018, then I knew something still wasn't wrong. I was in a, in a high stress job, and I'm just, I'm finding myself yelling at people who are sitting in a cubicle and not sitting in an office. And again, I'm like, This can't be right. Like I'm in the middle of an office environment, like we're not. We're not blind.
There's nothing happening here. There's no wars going on around here. Like, I've got this. Why am I so angry and frustrated still? So I went away to North Queensland for four days and stayed with a friend and, you know, did some skydiving and, and hung out and, and, you know, with a view that, that might have solved some problems, wasn't some challenges, but it still didn't. I'm still angry. I'm still frustrated.
We ended up leaving, selling up a house where we work cause our son finished year 12. We sold up, sold everything. Thought that's a good chance for us to be clean out. Moved to a two bedroom apartment and while were there, my wife had seen his course. These people she'd been following on Instagram, it was in Brisbane. Um, it was called, um, I think the Bridge and Extreme. So, um, two guys, Alexi Pans and Preston Smiles. Mm-hmm. . So they ran this course and so she said, I wanna do it.
I'm like, Cool, you fly up to Brisbane. So she did the, the first one, the bridge, and then she actually then wanted to come back and do the second week. I'm like, Yep, we'll go back to Brisbane again. And in between that I realized that they, Preston was running this thing called Unleash the. Which is a program that he ran up in Brisbane a lot. I, I just knew I had to go and do that. Uh, so I went and so we went to Brisbane three weekends.
The row actually flew up from Melbourne to Brisbane, three weekends in a row, and then that weekend was just such a defining moment for me in my life. I. Went in out, just had no idea what was gonna take place. And, you know, um, in confidentiality, I won't go through the exercises.
Yeah, there's breath work and anger management and everything else, Everything I needed in this breath work session, which was a 75 minute semantic breath work session, I went through three phases in that breath work. My first phase was, I actually just wanted to. Physically and emotionally and spiritually, I'm actually saying to myself, Okay, heart, just shut down. Cool. Turn off. Like, I know you're, you are. What's keeping me going? So if you shut down now I'm all good.
Like I'm done, like close down and I just wanted it to do that. Yeah. My heart decided not to, to jump in on the party, which was a good thing. I then went into a grieving. And that grieving phase in that my, both my uncle who'd passed away about 12 months before that appeared to me and started to tell me it's okay. And then my grandfather who'd passed away probably a dozen or 15 years before that also appeared and was talking to me.
Interesting. My father who'd passed, Two years before that actually didn't appear. So, so I, I found that intriguing. But again, probably two of the other people in my life, my ancestors that I saw, um, appeared to me and said, everything's gonna be okay. And then the third phase. I just went through this process of what I call the demonn of anger. Just left my bosy physically.
Anyone who's seen the Green Mile as a movie and, and sees a guy where all those sort of bugs and all the bad thing comes out, I, I visualized that took place. I just can remember hearing myself laying on the floor just screaming, Get the fuck out, get the fuck out, get the fuck out. And I just wanted this thing to leave and it literally left. And then again, as a universal habit. The song where they, you know, after the breath work where they lead, they just relax and come back out.
And I had a number of men that were supporting me, holding me through that process. The song that came off the back of that was, What A Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong, which is my favorite song in the world. And so at this came on and I'm like, Yes, this is a wonderful world. And ever since then, you know, all. Anger or the repressed emotion that I was holding basically just disappeared.
And for once in my life, I sat back and I'm like, I've got space between my shoulder blades and, and my heart just exploded open and, and I was in a room with 50 other men and all of a sudden men who I had no trust for who I had. Very was shut off to, I was happily engaging with, um, embracing telling them I loved them. Um, it was just this most amazing weekend experience. I remember walking home and telling my wife, I've just walked home, but I did not touch the ground all the way home.
I, I, I couldn't believe how light I felt. It was like I'd never literally put my feet on the ground. And so that was just this defining moment that I realized. As much as you can learn to hate and have all this anger and frustration and all that, you can have the opposite. And you can choose this as the life that you actually want and, and go through that process. So that was sort of, um, yeah, that, that's if you like my journey.
Um, probably quickly to close out on the pornography thing that I spoke about earlier, when my wife did her first weekend. Um, Then I pretty much, when she came back and talked to what took place, I, I opened up to her and said, I've got a pornography addiction, but I, I will promise you, from this weekend moving forward, I will never watch pornography again.
Now, she was quite emotional about that because she, she hadn't realized how deep it was and she felt, um, you know, obviously betrayed and everything else. Uh, but off the back of that, yeah, so from 2019, November, 2019, I have not, Pornography ever again. So no alcohol addiction, no pornography, and again, I don't look at it anymore as being, having an addictive personality because I used to have that label. I've got this addictive personality, everything else.
All I now realize is that I no longer need the external vices to bring me happiness and joy. I, I, I know that I can, that it's already within me and, and it's available for me. And thanks Steven for sharing all of that. I mean, there is so much in there, uh, you know, like just from your life, but as well how certain things have been normalized in our society and like both for men and women. But as you're sharing, there's so much, especially for men that has been normalized in terms of.
Being able to, to be able to just go with the motion and not feel, and to be all of the time in this competition space as well, and to not be able to. To follow whatever they want because we are supposed to do this and that and work and make money and uh, have, you know, like the house and everything that you're sharing. And there's so many things that have been normalized that aren't natural.
Like, that's one of the things that I usually say, like with everyone that I work with, is, you know, like there's a difference between what has been normalized and what's natural. And once we started to look into that, then we start always to unpack as you weren't sharing everything that wasn't processed, wasn't felt, wasn't integrated, and how all of that, a lot of times comes from our conditioning. Hmm, both consciously and unconsciously.
I work a lot with the, uh, unconscious, energetic ancestral patterns as well. So I definitely get what you are sharing on that. And I know from my own path, I, I've been really fortunate that. I was introduced by my parents to a lot of this world of consciousness and spirituality from the time that I was a teenager.
And I, when I was a teenager, I was able to learn about how to feel, about how to come back to the body and, and through the years of doing a lot of my own work, uh, seeing one of those things that. I didn't know that I was carrying, and as you were saying, like I remember distinctively once that I moved to New York and one week later my mom, like we were Skyping and she asked me how I was feeling and I told her I like, I just dropped the 50 kilo barrier out of my.
Right. Like, and I didn't know that I was carrying that. Mm. Um, and it's so interesting to know all of these different things that we're carrying, um, and that we are not, we're not meant to, and we are not supposed to carrying that, and we're carrying that just because we haven't learned that that's not our workplace. And you know, I think one of the things that, that you were sharing that I think that is really interesting as well, is being able to see addictions, whatever type of addiction.
As a symptom of disconnection on trauma instead of, uh, as a negative thing and, and shaming people because they, they have that, because of course that's not going to be helpful. I was talking the other day with one of my new clients about that. I was like, Okay, let's change as well, your relationship with your addictions because your addictions are not the problem. Yes, they end up not being helpful, but they are not the problem. The problem is underneath it.
And, and as you say, I heard it's so, so important to be able to a, have a conversations about all of this to open up and as you are doing just now, being vulnerable with everything. Um, because when we are open, We invite others to be open. Oh. And, and I think that, you know, like with certain things we need to break some of the cycles that we've been living, um, whether that is in our families, in our communities, in our societies.
And to be able to do that, we awareness and understanding that for some people there's a process and that process might be long or short. It doesn't. But how to start to look at life differently and how to be able to, to create space for, for what is necessary for us to, to heal and to look at things. Because as you were sharing, you know, like something I resonated was, I'm also the middle kid in my family, although I'm actually. The second and fourth, so I'm not even the one in the middle.
Mm-hmm. . And I remembered I was doing this, this work as a few years ago as I was doing my training to, to work with family and systemic constellations and something came up and during one of the like inter sessions that I was doing for myself, and so I called my. And I asked her if she knew anything that was similar to what I was experiencing now, and she said that I used to be so jealous of my brother, especially the older one, because he was so great at school.
He was so great at sports and art, at music, everything. and I always felt like I, like when I was a kid that I wasn't enough. I didn't remember that at all for me. I grew up happy, loving my, my siblings, you know, like, and I had no recollection of that yet when I was doing this work. It came up and it was so interesting to be able to talk, you know, like with with my parents, that likely they are still here, so that I actually have an understanding that that happened and not.
You know, not everything is there because there's some stuff that I, that I work myself that comes from my grandparents and great grandparents, and like, I have the tools to be able to work with, but not everyone. And I think that that is so important from what you were sharing about, you know, and what you're doing that is creating the space for, for men to be able to share and to be able to, through their sharing.
And through some understanding to be able to open and to see a different path because yeah, it's, it's not, it's not, Sometimes it's simple, but simple doesn't mean a of times and you spot on when you sign is interesting by, um, I think there's a. Might have been my dad's one of his sort of milestone birthdays, and I, I sort of family was all there and I sort of asked my brother whether he wanted me to, to make a speech and he sort of humiliated me in front of everybody else
and sort of said, I'm the older brother, I'll be the one making the speech. You can just sit down. Thank you. And I'm like, So again, you got a bit angry about this. And, you know, um, and, and a while later we all went away with families and, um, you know, and, and my brother still loves, loves to drink. And at that stage I was drinking, so we'd had a future in the day. And then I think everyone had gone on the bed. And I just said him. I said, Dude, what? Like, what was all that about?
Like, I, I feel I need to clean the air. Like what happened? And, and the first time he'd actually opened up, which is interesting when you talk about jealousy, because he said, Dude, I'm jealous of you and I'm. What do you mean? He goes, Well, I was the oldest. I was meant to leave home first. I was meant to do travel first. I was meant to do this first. You left home first. You've traveled more than what I've traveled and, and all of a sudden he's actually looked at my life.
and I'd never, I'd never seen it from his angle that he actually was jealous that I was actually out there doing these things that he hadn't done. Mm-hmm. . So his way was then to, you know, to try and keep me down by, you know, by humiliating me or, or doing different things because of, that's just how we operated. And it was interesting for him to have opened. About that.
And you know, the one thing I, I've really learned of now and, and the one thing that I talk with people about is it doesn't matter who you see and it doesn't matter how tragic in an event that something has taken place, just ask this simple question. I wonder what happened to that person somewhere in their life. The result of them that ended up them being like this, cuz when they were the small baby in their mom's hands, They weren't like that.
So what has taken place somewhere between birth and whatever they, they are to end up, whether they're, you know, whether they've done tragic things of family violence or you know, or abuse or they're, they're on the street, homeless or whatever else. When they were born, they weren't like that. So what's happened in their life? Like a simple inquiry question and, and I find.
That's for me, when I talk about heart driven, if I come from that angle every single time, for every person I meet, I wonder what's taken place in their life that resulted in them being like this, them having this judgment, them having this attitude, them being angry, frustrated, aggressive, or being full of love and all full of emotion. You know, something has taken place, which is that, you know, that conditioning or, or, or so, so forth.
And so I find that that's just such a really simple technique. For me to use, it helps me move away from that, that judgment that when I see others or that jealousy or, or everything else, it might take place. It's like, okay, I just need to come from this. From, I suppose the, I suppose that's just, you know, in simple terms, coming from a heart and just asking a very hard driven question about, I wonder what took place with them.
And as soon as you go into that inquiry mode, The world changes and, and your mindset changes about how you see things and how you see other people, like, you know, someone abuses you in traffic, you know, like, so I wonder what happened to them this morning. Yeah, but ended up resolving them popping into the car and being so angry or in such a rush or in such a thing, like what took place? Did they have a fight with our partner? Did they have a fight with their kids?
Do, are they on the verge of losing their job? Like, did they just get bad news about a family member? Like, I wonder that actually took place because that's just not, as you said, it's not normal behavior. It's not, it's not our true behavior to be angry and upset and frustrated and abusive, like as our truest nature is, as when we're born, is just to be openhearted loving people. Yeah. And, and actually you have joy and happiness.
I mean, you know, whenever you see the first time that that baby at the age of two, three months, When the dad or the mum or the grandma walks in and their eyes light up and they just laugh and giggle, like that is just the truest happiness and joy. That's just, you know, that's where they come from. So what else has happened to, to, to take that away from our own truest nature that we've actually got.
Yeah. And I think, you know, like as sharing that that, that that's a thing that for many our true nature, It's not there because we have normalized so many things. We have normalized the anger, We have normalized the shouting. We have normalized the fighting and the separation and the judgment instead of coming from a place, as you're saying, from the heart or from a place of open curiosity and, and developing a, a wider awareness, awareness.
That, you know, someone might be going through some deep shit at the moment and they are behaving that way because they haven't learned how to behave differently and something push their buttons and they are triggered. And I think that one of, one of the key things, as you're saying, coming from that place of the heart, coming from place of, of slowing down to be able.
To create a space for that inquiry and to be able to, to put ourselves in an open space of nonjudgment, as well as being able to have more open and honest communication. Because as, as you're sharing with your brother, it's so interesting. I see this all of the time with my work. There's all of this different dynamics, whether that is like within two people or an entire family. And usually they are all comparing themselves to the others.
They are all jealous to, like, to, they are all competing because they never actually slowed down and actually had an honest conversation. As you're saying, you, you were trying to catch up to your brother, you're trying to compete and, and, and, and be better. And then you have that, So there, there's this comparison and this animosity somehow towards your brother. And then your brother is jealous.
That you were doing all of those things just because you were driven to do those things and how easy it would be to at least not get to that level of comparison and, and, and, you know, and, and anger and competition and. And animosity that if we would have had the more conscious awareness growing up, if our parents and hopefully then like us.
Then the next generation or the following generation, if we start to create more conscious awareness and more spaces for understanding our feelings, for having an honest, open communication, how we can actually create space for. Such a different life and prevent so much of the things that are unhelpful for our lives.
Like as you were sharing, you know, like what, what does it help for a family to, for, you know, like someone, one of the parents of the family to be in a job that they are not happy, they're completely stressed out, coming home, taking it out on the kids with her that is verbally, physically, or just by being not present. and that, you know, then that gets passed to, to the kids and then that's their experience and we can prevent so much by actually being able to just burn ourselves open.
Hmm. And that is not normal. Like, you know, it's so nice to see so many in the last few years, so many circles where there is men circles, like, uh, just circles in general where people can actually go there and start to share and to be open because that, that is what we need and, and that is why the more conversations there. The better it's going to be. There's nothing I will lose by creating space and by slowing down.
And even, you know, like I was chatting yesterday and one of my, my classes and someone said, you know, like, ah, you should spend, you know, like she, she was talking for two minutes only and she was like, You didn't cut me at any point, like you were actually listening. And I was like, Yes. Like you were sharing and I'm, and I'm listening. Um, what I thought in the moment is like, she must not have that in her life.
Like she must always have someone like interjecting and cutting her from what she wants to share. Therefore, this is new for her. The fact that someone. Was present and listened to her. And this is the same all of the time with everyone. Like we all have our own like baggage. So being able to create that space is, is, is so great that, that you're doing that through the work that you're doing.
Yeah. Look, the, the thing that I see globally, At the moment is all the systems that sit around us globally are focused on repression and suppression. So to your words, around normalizing the systems around, how do we normalize repression and suppression? So how do we get people. Not being able to talk up about freedom of speech. How do we, how do we repress things down? And then when people wanna actually share their emotions, how do we actually suppress that?
And the more that we can have a repressed and suppressed society, we're in control and, and, and the controlling mechanisms consider around that. And that's not normal. You know that the, that if you go back thousands and thousands of years, the reason why many civil civilizations succeeded is because they created open spaces where elders, or even chiefs or wisdom holders or men, men and women or shamans, could actually be openly challenged on their belief system.
And there was an open debate forums and there was open discussions. Whether things were right and wrong and no one ever felt that they were then put down by it. It just become an open dialect and an open debate. Um, in Australia, you know, if you look back in the aboriginal culture here in Australia, interestingly, you know, there's no castles. And I loved it. I was reading this recently, like, you know, they could have built all these castles.
They could have built all these moats and everything else. The way it used to work is that, Within elders, within tribes, and even with, there's those 500 separate tribes used to exist, even across tribes. They would sit down and there was no such thing as majority. It was everybody agreed. Or, or we continued the conversation and they continu opened and they continued the dialogue until they all agreed on the path to move forward.
That is such an open, conscious space because it was like, okay, if, if someone still disagreed, What is it within you that is what, Is there something we've missed? Is it something you are just fearing? Is there something you have more to the table? Let's have that continue to have this conversation until everyone had that chance to get it all out on the table. And then once everything was on the table, then decisions could be made about how everybody moved forward.
And, and we just don't have that opportunity now. I mean, and I think we've even seen this more so, and, and we're definitely not gonna get into the next, last few years, but you know, we've seen that more so about. How much further are we trying to normalize suppression and repression?
Mm. And so it's about how do we get back to this different space of, as you said, allowing it, You know, one of the things that, that I do, um, within my program is one of the, that the lessons that, that I actually get people to go out and say, Go and find somebody. And for 15 minutes now, I know you spoke about this girl for a couple minutes, right? For 15 minutes, do nothing but sit, listen, and ask question.
Do not inject yourself into the conversation and do not put your opinion, your thoughts. Continue to just inquire and inquire and inquire, and it's amazing what comes outta the back of that 15 minutes, particularly when they're the ones that are heard. It's probably the first time in their life that they can remember where for 15 minutes someone else has actually sat with them and just listened and, and, and, and the power of just that, the power of learning to listen is huge.
You know, Just us being able to sit there and, you know what I've loved about this conversation? There's been acknowledgement. But there's been no interjection by either of us, and I hope the listeners pick up on this, the fact that, you know, we've both been able to just allow us to, to have our own, you know, conversation. But that's the beautiful thing about it. You know, we listen, we understand, and then we both inquire as to where we're at with each other, and that's so powerful.
Mm. Yeah, and, and you know, when I think that it's, It's also one of the things of why I, I love podcasts and why I love to, to have conversations with people from different places, different backgrounds, different lifestyle than me as well. A, because that's real, that's happening. And as well, to be able to actually model what this could look like if we don't have anyone modeling. An open conversation can happen. How being present and listening happens, as you're saying, like 15 minutes.
If, if we have never been shown that, then we don't know that as a possibility, and this is why. The more that this type of work, the more that this type of conversations happen, the more that those circles happen. The easier it is for all of us to take that home, to take that to our workplace, to take that, to take that everywhere. Because at the end of the day, and this is one of the things that I, that I love about society is that. Society runs by people. Mm-hmm.
like behind every business, behind every organization, behind every government. Like yes, they might be self perpetrating systems and corporations and whatever, but there's people there. . And that is for me, one of the things that I will say, like if people make those connections, then things will change.
So I, you know, like that's always an interesting thing and I'm like, I'm so like into this conversation that I. I just realized that we are getting like into the time to, to bring it to an end, but I would love to have another conversation with you, Steven. But before we do that, I usually ask towards the end of our podcast, uh, question that I had. You know, like it might be something that you already perhaps shared, but the one thing that you wish that everybody knew.
Wow. That's a, that's an absolutely fantastic question. The one thing that I wish that everybody knew is that they can choose to be happy today. Simple as that. You, you can choose to attach yourself to your story and attach yourself to how you got to this point in time, but that is all in the. And so every single person listening to this right this point in time from now on can go, You know what?
I'm actually going to choose to be happy from this point on and find happiness in everything that I do moving forward. And every event it takes place. As much as you feel it might be a sad or a tragic event, you can always find a piece of. Mm. E. Even if that's the passing of a loved one, find joy in the life and the beauty they had when they were alive. Find joy in the fact that they have now joined the ancestors. Who can now bring you wisdom through your spiritual connection with them.
They've never left. They've just left a physical body, but their, their soul, their energy still exists and is there for you forever moving forward. So in any event, you can find joint happiness. That's what I, I just wish that everybody could just understand and, and, and tap into that. And if everybody, Immediately today could go. I'm just gonna find joint happiness in everything I do. Our world will change overnight, globally. Everything would happen.
How our forests work, how our trees work, how our birds work, how our animals work, how we connect in with all those beautiful living creatures, rocks, landscapes, Everything changes as soon as everyone goes. I choose to be happy from this point moving forward. Choosing not to be happy is choosing to attach yourself to your ego and choosing to remain in a state of happy. If you choose that, then why not choose the other? I think that's the, the would be the, the piling message for me.
Yeah. Thank you for that message, Steven. Um, thank you for taking the time, for sharing, for being open, for listening and, and for everybody that wants to. Connect with you, wants to check a little bit more about what you do, where can they find you? Yeah, so, uh, Steven Milton. I'm on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. Um, I go under my name, uh, so it's easy to find. And, uh, my website's just steven milton.com. Um, and you can jump over there and see what I'm doing in that space.
Um, I just wanna say, Brian, thank you. Your, your ability to just be open, to listen, to create a space for, for me to have this conversation has been fantastic. I've just really enjoyed it. And, you know, I'm extremely grateful for, you know, yourself in doing this podcast, in creating this space and, and allowing people to be able to, to listen in, you know, to all the different guests that you've actually got. Um, it.
A lot of courage for people to start a podcast because they are being vulnerable and putting themselves out there. And so the fact you've done that is just an amazing gift. So yeah. Thank you. And thank you for accepting me as being a guest. I'm, I'm greatly appreciative. Thank you, Steven. And as you were saying, we'll have all of those links on the comment, on the notes, on the show notes, so that everybody can consider if you're listening to, And something resonated with you.
Give us a comment, whatever it is that you're listening to this, go and check out, uh, the work that Steven is doing and create space as we've been sharing. Create space for conversations, for looking into your life, for seeing all of those patterns of behavior and, and check out whatever you. If there's any circles that are happening, men's circle or mixed circle that are going to be places for for you just to to connect.
So thank you, Steven, once more, and thank you Ron for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye. Thank you. Bye. What did you like the most about this episode? Take a moment to think about what change you can make in your life. Share your conscious action on social media using hashtag conscious action and tagging at Conscious Action and said so we can celebrate your impact on the world and create a ripple effect.
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