#241 - Justin Copeland Navigates Authenticity and the Aromatic World

So I knew to expect that . Okay , you know , unless if something is really good then it will get that out of the park kind of rating , and if not , then it is what it is and I never take it personally . I'm like oh , you don't really like . Obviously the title is inflated , it's drama . People click on drama .

First of all , I know that we're smelling things on paper in the video anyway , and there was a few fragrances in that particular video where I had mentioned she had smelled it on me before and actually really enjoyed it , but in the video she's like oh yeah , it's totally different .

So that's just , that's just a given , something always to expect and something not to get too mad at .

You know , both are so damn calm and collected and cool . I mean , seriously , me and this guy run 100 miles an hour all the time and I feel like we we wear stress and everything and I just felt like at peace watching this video .

And you know , that whole one on one video we did for the promo launch of the fragrance was her idea . She's like I want to sit down and interview you . So we kind of devised the questions together but the flow was kind of , you know , dictated by her , and even the setup and everything .

So she does have a hand in some production work with the channel of certain things .

that . So to see how deeply you tied this fragrance even to her man , that has to be really special and really cool for you to be able to do that . Yeah , man to say the least .

So when Grace came in and it coincided with the time to make another fragrance , there was a gravity there . I'm like there's no way I could create some kind of artistic extension of myself and not include her , because she was such a a seminal point in my life .

And so I'm like , yeah , just it makes total sense and it happened to just perfectly coincide with a continuation of the narrative from the first one , just kind of going deeper and just giving it more branches and more layers . So , um , yeah , you're right , it was super special man .

We're not just talking about fragrances , but each time we produce something , they get a little bit more informed about who we are and what our friendship means to us , and I can't help but feel like people feel the same way with you and Grace . That's all we could hope for .

Last night I had a performance in town here in Portland and this guy drove all the way down for the show and he showed up and I knew him cause we , you know , on my patron , we do like zoom calls with everyone and we just kind of hanging chat and he , I was like , I was like dude , what he's like ?

Hey , I was like whoa and he's like why are you saying whoa ? I'm saying whoa .

And so like , and Grace was there too , so we did the show and then after the show we were hanging with him a bit and he wasn't outwardly saying it , but he just had this look on his face of like I've only ever saw you on the screen , Right , you know , and this is like really strange , and I was sensing that energy and I was trying to like cause I'm

not really good at truly being in a moment like that and understanding how people might see me I'm just I try to project , I'm like I'm not really thinking about , I wonder what they think of me .

Like I wonder how cool I look , kind of thing , you know but in this moment I'm like it must be kind of weird for him to be in a situation where it's like , yeah , he's been watching my videos for years and now here we are , sitting across the table from each other . I know how I would feel in that case .

So it was just like really just an eyeopening experience and not anything boosting myself , but just like it . Just it humbled me . Ironically enough , more than anything . I'm like this is really cool , like what this world of perfumery can bring and how it can bring people together . Like it blew me away .

And just the gesture that he made of getting in his car and taking a trip . I'm like dude , really . Oh man , are you serious ? Like , yeah , I'm serious .

You don't think people really care that much . Sometimes you kind of get caught up in the world and doing your thing and yeah , it is . It's definitely special , so I know that had to feel amazing . We met one of our listeners one time actually .

He's our day one sort of a guy , and so you know , he was just kind of congratulating us and I was just like man , you know , we'll just never forget , like you were like one of the first 10 people who listened to this thing .

You know , and as , as we grow and I'm sure you know this as well because your audience is massive on both Instagram and YouTube but you always have to be grounded to the fact that each number is a person and each person has a life , and that's kind of what we see more and more , just with interacting with people , that they come over to the Patreon or ,

like you said , you've , you've got a Patreon that then came and watched you and in that moment , you know we're actually connecting lives and building bridges and and it's a , it's a beautiful thing . I love that about this , yeah .

You know , it can even be easy to forget that in comment sections like , right , because a lot of people may not use their real name , then you know , obviously you mentioned the name earlier . That's not a real name , I'm sure .

Nonetheless , like even then , like they may not use a picture , whatever it may be , and it can be very easy , especially if they are being negative to you , it's so easy to not even see them as a person , right , and to see , like , beyond what they're saying and say like , okay , this is a life .

On the other side of this comment , there's a reason why they're saying what they're saying and it has nothing to do with me , right , because they don't actually know me , yeah , and I don't know them . I don't know them , I'm just a projection of something .

So it took me some years to learn that and that has been invaluable for me , you know , I guess facing the storms of dealing with an audience , dealing with the Internet , dealing with people who don't always have great things to say , right , and just to have that perspective , has just given me a lot more peace and grounding when it comes to interfacing , because

it is the constant reminder that they're humans , right , just like me . So we're really not that different at all .

I mean , I haven't snooped through your comment sections , but I just see just from what I've seen from you , you don't leave a lot of vulnerable positions to go like oh he did this wrong . Here's a chance for me to attack . I just feel like you're so chill , you're so cool . Do you get a handful of people that still come out swinging ?

It is what people are looking for when they tune into anyone on any social platform , and a majority of people are going to like that , and it says a lot about the people that don't and they are , again , always the minority . They will come out and they're not gonna say I don't like you because you're authentic . They're not gonna say those words .

They're going to mask it in some other way because there's some kind of lack , there's some kind of void that they are attacked by , by something you say or how you present yourself . And again , it took me some years to really learn where those people are coming from or where they might be coming from , cause I never truly know . Everyone's lives are so nuanced .

But yeah , they're out there In every video there's at least one , and these days I will typically , unless they have a genuine question , I will just remove the comment .

Yeah , it's serving nothing , it's not even serving them . So I'm just gonna remove the comment If it's just outright . I had a couple of those already on today's video . Wow that you won't see because I've already removed them . Especially when you get another person on screen , just it opens up the floodgates for how critical people can be .

So I was like I'm not even gonna deal with it . There's no point .

Same for you as well , because it's like you care about that person Me . I know exactly how something affects me when I read it , but I don't know exactly how it would affect you . You'd probably tell me , but in that moment I would be like it's my job to protect the person that I love , and I will say that I love Ryan . It's out there .

But for your spouse now to be on the screen , yeah , I can imagine that it's like hey look , leave her out of this .

Is this the only comment on this video ? It's like you could just scroll past it and all of a sudden it's gone . There you go .

We won't keep going on about that because this is about you , about this new fragrance , but just something that we wanted to applaud that you've done it so well . You guys have been so genuine , authentic to who you are , and it's a joy to see for sure . Thank you so much .

So it was literally trial and error from day one . And you know , like with anything and this applies to any person if you do enough reps , you're going to figure it out . It's going to become easier , it's going to become more polished . So at this point , I don't have at least 750 videos that I have now produced and that comes with .

Those are reps , that comes with refinement over time . So if you go back , you will see where I've come from . It's very clear . And you're like , oh yeah , he's gotten better . He's gotten better with time . But you know , you're always doing the best you can with what you have at any point in time .

So those videos , you know , 2016 , 17 , I'm like that was my best work and I generally I felt that way at the time . I'm like , yeah , this is good . And I'm like now it's like I wish I could delete those videos , but I won't Right Just because you know you can see the progression . It's honest there .

If he could just make and this is the other part , you think that's hard , this is the harder one he said , if he could just make exactly what he wanted , how would his focus be on those videos change Gosh hard , hidden stuff .

I'm always trying to figure out what can be tweaked , what can I change , what's working , what's not . When I started , it wasn't that serious . I was simply making videos that I wanted to make . At first , I didn't really care who was watching or not . I had no plans with the channel at that time .

As I started to see viewership increase , I started to pay a little bit more attention to what was working for other people across the platform and trying to figure out okay , do I want to do this ? Do I want more growth ? How could this work ? I would do a lot of the topics that were being done just in my own way , whatever it was , and it was working .

I'm like , okay , cool . And I started to get jaded by that .

After a couple of years , and I think a lot of people know maybe not everyone , but I did take a hiatus from YouTube In 2018 , I stepped away from making videos for about six months . That was also coinciding with my move from Chicago to where I am now in Portland , and so a lot was changing . It was just a whirlwind .

Nonetheless , after I was settled here for a couple of months , I restarted because I'm like you know what I missed producing videos . I missed , kind of like , refining my nose and sharing my thoughts and findings and whatnot . So revived the channel and have been going ever since , since the end of 2018 .

And then , from that point , it has been this much more intentional interfacing with the YouTube beast . I've been way more diligent about , okay , what is going on here , what is like the overall picture of what we're doing here and what it came out to be , at least those who were getting a lot of success in this space .

What was ultimately happening was people getting on camera , sharing fragrances with a promised outcome and encouraging more consumerism , more buying , more hoarding whatever you fill in the blank with whatever that word is . But it was just this economy of just more and more and more and excess and surplus and unnecessary things , and again , that's kind of inconsequential .

When you look at it , it's like , okay , people are going to spend their money on stuff . Cool , that's what people do .

But I could not , with a voice and a platform , I could no longer feel at peace , knowing that I was a part of that machine , to say like , yeah , I'm just getting on camera doing what everyone else is doing because it's working for them , so it's going to work for me , and I'm going to say , hey , I buy these fragrances because they will get you compliments ,

and it's like there's more to fragrance than that . Right , obviously , that is what , because that is the content that is consumed on YouTube and you know videos like that , that is what YouTube kind of caters the algorithm around in the fragrance space .

It is dictated by the viewers and obviously we as creators play a role too , especially when we can give people what they didn't know they needed or wanted . That is what I feel like I'm always trying to do now .

So it's been this balancing act ever since and I would say this year , over the past , I don't know , six to eight months has been some of the biggest growth I've experienced and up until this point , it's been quite a crucible because and Grace would , and I would have conversations about this all the time I would tell her it's like you know what I want .

I want to create the content I want to create and I want the notoriety . And she was like . It sounds like you want everything .

So I was kind of doing that , but still trying to go down the middle . I would say yeah , and like , every video that I make is videos I want to make . There's a lot of videos I don't want to make , that I don't . I just don't even entertain the idea .

Now , what I've been experimenting with over the past six to eight months that I think has been working is I'm trying to give people what I want to give them in the way I want to give them , but in a package that not only the algorithm can understand but also the average viewer , who doesn't even know who I am , can understand .

And that has involved a lot of filtering .

I've had to kind of strip away excess stuff , especially you know you guys understand like packaging when it comes to content is so huge thumbnails , titles , right For sure , massive stuff makes such a big difference , and I've done a lot of experimenting with that over time and I'm not going to say I found the formula , I found the works .

Now what I can say is that , after all the thought and all the frustration and bang my head against the wall that I've done over the past couple of years , I've reached a point where I have found something that is working that I will continue to adapt and evolve as needed . So ultimately yes , it's a funny little fighting game .

I feel like I'm in a game of street fighter with you know , with all it's just like me , versus everything that you know is popular or whatever it is , and I've gotten some .

You know , I've kind of interestingly established this reputation with my channel , which was never an intention , and I get called fragrance Morpheus a lot , which is and and honestly , on one hand , I'm like no guys , like yeah way more hair like Lawrence fish .

But on the other hand , it's like no guys , like I'm not trying to like force this image of like this is me and I am just the complete counterculture kind of thing , like I'm not trying to do that , I'm just trying to be me and call it how I see it . So I'll just keep doing that . We'll see how it continues to evolve .

But all I can say is I'm grateful for every moment , even the moments where I was like really down , you know , and just kind of wondering , like why am I making this video right now ? But I'm like I'm going to do it because I have something to say and I'll do it .

And then everything just kind of compounds , even when it doesn't make sense for a period of time , and that all adds up .

So you know , when I , by the time I left , I was just like I am done , I can't make another video . I wasn't done with fragrances , I was still sniffing stuff . I was still acquiring new stuff here and there , right when I came back . You know , over the course of time I was seeing comments here and there .

I wasn't checking my YouTube all the time , so I was a little tapped out on YouTube . I was still pretty active on Instagram but I was seeing . You know , I would see at least once a day I would see a comment of someone saying hey man , you know I just came across this video , which was my last video at that time .

You know , really sorry to hear that it came to this place , but I totally understand and all the best to you . I got a lot of those comments and the funny thing is I still get those comments today on that video when people who are new to my channel they come oh man , I've been watching , I've been binge watching your content up to this video .

You know , I'm so sorry that it didn't work out . I'm like dude . I've been back for almost six years now , so it's okay we had something like that happen to us .

I was really focused on , first of all , featuring fragrances that I loved , and if I'm doing that , that means the content I'm making is what I want to make , cause if the fragrances aren't what I want to talk about , then the content is not what I want to make .

So at that point I was just happy to have an outlet again , because it is kind of a creative outlet for me . I consider myself an artist and you know I have different outlets for it and it's just one of them . I love editing videos . I love being silly with my edits .

I love even filming and stuff and producing , putting videos together in scripts and whatnot . So I just started to find more joy in that and it was awesome that people were super excited .

You know , when they I didn't get a ton of people like showing up at my door like you're back , like it wasn't like this massive grand re-entrance or anything , but I did feel warmly welcomed , and especially by my fellow creators as well .

You just have to do it over and over and over again . You have to keep showing up and putting in the work and I think you may be more prepped than a lot of people out there just because that mentality when you started that you weren't going to be great . You know you knew hours and hours and hours .

And if you did think that after hours you realized that you that anyways , that you weren't going to be great right , you just put the time and put the time and put the time in , and that dedication to the hours and the hours and the hours .

people just aren't ready for that when they think like , oh , I want to make a couple of videos , maybe it'll just pop off and be great . Sometimes they do , but for the most part it's that effort and that journey that you've made as a musician really just kind of redefined as a video maker .

You know , obviously I did take a break from YouTube , but I did that because I didn't feel like myself anymore and that's just who I am .

If I don't feel like I'm doing it from authenticity , I can't do it . I can't put on the mask and dance , I can't juggle the chainsaws and make the money , kind of like . I can't do that . I will like , I'll crack and I'll be like sorry guys , I can't do this anymore .

But as long as I'm operating from a place of sincerity and genuinely who I am , I don't really quit . I'll find a way . Let's find another way . That doesn't work . Okay , let's try to go around . Okay , that doesn't work . I'm always searching , I'm always examining and analyzing , as I said .

So when you come to fragrances , I'm sure just in what you pick up and what you purchase , you're looking for something that's going to give those around you a better understanding of who you are . Once they smell that fragrance , they go oh , this is more of the nuance of who I am as a person .

So when you go into directing the creation of a fragrance , how did that play into it ?

You just need to start from the ground up , come up with an idea , some kind of creative brief , and tell us put yourself into this bottle , basically . And I'm like that's really vulnerable . Wow , I felt immediately so inferior .

I'm like , I mean , I know what I like and stuff , but me like being a part of a creation , like well , who's to say it'd be any good kind of thing . So I was constantly questioning myself .

But working with George was such a gift because he I mean , I'm not going to go too much and do it , but he has a long career of being vulnerable , putting himself out there , being shut down , losing everything , getting it back . I mean , he has stories for days and so much experience . So he had a lot of wisdom to offer .

And you know the one thing he kept reminding me he's like Justin , I'm choosing you because I believe in you . We would not be having this conversation otherwise . And he's like and it has nothing to do with making sales or money , because I'm not getting rich off of this project . I might break even . Yeah , it's like . I'm like , okay .

So there was no pressure immediately from there . It was kind of effortless because all I had to do was be myself . It's like I just have to be myself and this will be a thing , great . So it started with writing . I just had to write out what I was thinking . It all came to me very quickly as soon as I had focused . I'm like you know what ? Music ?

Let's make music a part of this . I've been a musician for over 25 years . Like it would be ridiculous to not have my first fragrance be involved with something that is such an integral part of my life . And I had the privilege of working with a great perfumer , a guy by the name of Vincent Kuchinsky .

He is contracted with Mon , who's one I think they're the fifth largest fragrance and flavor house in the world , and he's out on the East Coast , and so we got to have some conversations , and that just put things at ease even more , because I'm talking to literally a guy who's been in the industry for decades and he is edifying me .

He's like oh man , yeah , I love what your ideas are and I think you know what the ideas you have is really going to . We're going to make something good here . I'm like , if you think that , I think you're right , you know like . I'm not an expert . I'm not a perfumer , I have no expertise in chemistry or anything , anything dealing with raw ingredients .

So it was actually a float , at least for the first one . The second one was a little bit more intricate the process , and it was a little bit more particular in terms of , like , what the final product would be . So it was a little bit more back and forth , but I can't really say .

All I could say is that the only resistance I really encountered was at the beginning of the first one , that true resistance of just me encountering me getting over myself , realizing that I'm here for a reason . I have what it takes . Let's give it a shot . There's literally nothing to lose . I hope that answers your question 100% .

At least that's what comes to mind for now .

Let's jump into talking about the second fragrance , second soul . In the same way , this authentic self that you have putting forward into that . Now you've interacted . Grace has come into the picture and now so , just like you said with music , it's such a vibrant and special part of who you are that you want to include that .

Now you're also talking about that with Grace , who's come along , made you more complete as a person and made you a better person . I'm sure that is in this picture and now you've created the second fragrance .

I was going to do a flanker and I won't go too much into this because it is maybe another podcast episode topic . But when I made breast and soul , put it out and you know , feedback , I didn't know what to expect , because the first time I'm ever doing anything like this , I'm like what the heck is this going to be like ? What are people going to say ?

What are they not going to like about it ? What are they going to like about it ? You know , overall the feedback was really good . However , there were a number of comments of people saying this is not what I expected from you . This is not you , and I see your face is not . You guys are like what ? Yeah , I know that's what I was saying .

I was like wait , this is not me to like . Yeah , you know , on camera you're just this smooth , dark , smoky individual . The fragrance just did not represent that at all . I'm like okay . So that was such a great learning experience for me .

It was hard , that was a tough moment because I was dealing with a group of people who all had the consensus that they knew who I was and that I did something wrong . That was not aligned with who I am , and I'm like I had to step back and say wait a minute , I know me . They must not know me . They know what I showed them .

Whatever I put on in a video , that's what I put .

I mean , in a 16 minute video you can't completely know exactly who someone is inside and out , and I feel like viewers , they kind of want that , they want to feel that connection with someone and it's definitely there , but they need to understand they're not getting every nuance of that person's humanity contained in this little screen in a produced video , and

there's people who just simply didn't realize that . So I had to realize like okay , these people don't know me , because if they did , they would know that this is 100% me . For a lot of people said it was just oh , it's just too fresh and soapy and clean . It's not you at all . Like you just . And I'm like okay .

So first of all , I made the fragrance to be balanced .

I made it to , yes , have a fresh , vibrant , jubilant nature to it which represents the narrative of the fragrance , which is about my trumpet being cold at the start of the performance and there's so much energy and anticipation and then , through the performance , things kind of settle , it warms up , it gets sweeter and darker and whatnot .

Now , everyone didn't have that experience with the fragrance . For some people . I saw this divide which was very interesting . Some people would say it was a bar of soap on my skin for five hours and then it disappeared . And then I had some people say it started very clean but after like 10 hours it completely transforms into something totally different .

It turns ambery , warm , little smoky leathery , and that's what I intended . So it was like kind of a 50% split of the experiences that people had , and obviously people draw their assessments based on their experience . I totally understand that .

So those who did have the very kind of one or two dimensional experience with it that's the conclusion that they drew was like oh , you made it this way and this is not you . And then the other people who had the other experience got it Like , oh , totally , yeah , I totally get it .

There's balance here , there's transformation here , evolution , there's nuance , like it's all here , and that's what I wanted to do . And I think Vincent , my perfumer nailed it because we went back and forth a little bit . Now I wanted to just get that out of the way , and there's more I could say .

But coming to second soul , I knew that we were going to start with brass and soul , because I think we started with a great foundation and my plan was that when I made this , if I had a chance to make a second one , then we would go deeper , we would take it in a different direction , it would be based on the same DNA , but it would be kind of opposite

. In some ways . That was my plan before . Second soul was even a dream . So I already knew when I had the chance to do this okay , I'm going to make this darker , I'm going to . I mean , it goes in line with the narrative . You know , the brass and soul is the first set of music .

There's more people in the room again , more electric , more vibrant , more energy . Second soul is the second set of music . The room is emptied out a bit , the candles are burning a little dimmer , the music is not quite as energetic anymore because it doesn't need to be .

There's not just a ton of bodies in the room to cater to now , and there's another individual in the room that I now notice , who I didn't see before . So now there's this other layer of connection that is more sensitive , right . So I knew I would want this scent to represent that in a darker way .

So it takes the original kind of almost starts where it leaves off , if you want to be technical , and it's dry down , and then it goes further and it adds some more layers to it .

We've had a couple of fragrances now that we've , we have revisited one of it being a must-rives jar bar Frederick Mall . We first smelled that . We didn't like it and in fact in the old episode we never upload that episode for whatever reason , but he's on the mic going . You know what . We may need to revisit this in a year and I bet y'all like it .

But we pulled it up and we ended up loving it . The second time we smelled it , yeah , yeah , kind of the same thing happened . But I resonate with what you just said . You were saying your fan base was like this , isn't you ?

Because when I first smelled it if I'm being candid and being honest here , that's what I was I was thinking it was going to be this dark or whatever , maybe smoky fragrance or whatever , and it wasn't . It wasn't that it was a bad smell , it was a really good smell .

But we've had time since then and we smelled it again and I was like , wow , this is really . It's really kind of pretty . I like how it smells , it is fresh and I love it .

But when you just said that , though , like how it represented like the trumpet , it's cold and the energy or thing man , all that just resonated instantly with me and now it makes so much sense . So that's awesome . But I wanted to kind of be open about that .

There's part of me I can see where , where fans do they see that little part of you , and you're correct , they don't get every bit of you , and even me and him we've been , we create as well . But even I've have felt victim to that to think , oh , that's how you should be or this is how this fragrance should be .

But I love that you open up about that man .

If they pick it up in act one , it's going to look completely different than the end of act two . It's 11 seconds look completely different . And I think , just like you were kind of saying , I love the authenticity . That's the thing I think as human beings we got us drive for .

But even in that , just this one little fraction of your personality around fragrance could be completely different than the person who you are when you're standing behind your trumpet and you're playing music , or different than the person you are with your wife . I mean , I feel like our lives are .

They're just all these different variations of shades and colors and you can really think that by watching just fragrance videos that you know who . Justin is you know but because our listeners , or our viewers , or let's call them fans , they do love that part of us so much that I think they expect everything to be that one small facet of who Sure ?

It needed to happen . I needed to have that feedback because it just fortified who I know I am and you know , one of the biggest things is , again , it's supposed to be me in a bottle . My personality I don't know if it's always represented in how I speak , but if you watch my videos , it's represented in how I edit . Okay , I am a freaking clown .

Okay , yeah , I am a total clown . I love , I love to joke . I would consider myself very mature , but on my videos I know I can come off as just like a river of sludge . You know like , oh , this guy is just literally just darkness flowing . There's just like utter smoothness . He has no inflection in his personality , it is just cool and calm all the time .

Yeah .

I mean , like us , we come off as nerds , but you somehow you can freak out about fragrances and still look as cool as hell .

You're vulnerable , but I feel like there's a little bit of you that because I'm very introverted , I thought there's a little bit of that with you because I am and he knows this I am so reserved Now , right now , this is me kind of , this is just a little bit of me .

But in reality when I go out and meet people for the first time , he'll tell you I'm just , I won't hardly talk at all . In fact , when we've had , we've done , we do business meetings sometimes and I'm always the guy like I purposely take notes , I don't talk , I just listen take notes .

Right , he does all the talking cause he's so good at it and he's extroverted . But then when I get to know somebody , yeah , I open up fully and we wear clowns together all the time . I kind of feel like I get that vibe from you a little bit , man .

You like to kind of feel the situation out a little Definitely .

It's ? Basically you have tendencies of both . Okay , so you know , there is , I guess , a limited , you know , resource of energy output that you have . However , it doesn't necessarily cripple you when it comes to speaking with new people and even engaging on a surface level , like there's no like anxiety involved , I would say , of any kind .

So you know , sometimes I feel like talking more than other times , but for the most part I don't love small talk . I'll do it , it's fine , but it kind of kills me inside . It kills me on the inside a little bit .

And when I meet new people and we do start talking , I'm going to try to go deeper and that will be a test of who they are and if I want to keep talking to them some people will do it . They're like , oh yeah , man , I remember when I was seven , you know my uncle like he was in a gang and they'll just start going in .

I'm like , oh , you're going in okay . Here we are . Let's talk about the realness , Like I'm not here to talk about . Oh , so you know . Like , oh , you're a project manager . Okay , how long are you going to do that for ? Like that's fine , but that is not the essence of who people are , that's just what they're doing .

So if we can go there , then I open up . I'm similar . If I know we can actually get to know each other , then I'm going to be all in , I'll do it for sure .

I felt like we still talked and had a good time , but I felt like Mike had worked so hard to carry me across the finish line .

That just means that's how . That is your authentic reaction to the chemistry involved . Some things are great and harmonious , other things are volatile , and you know , but I know , with Ryan , ryan is different around me than he is around . Take me out and put somebody else in .

Some of that has to do with a comfort level , but also some of just has to do with I bring certain aspects out of you , you know , and I think that's the same way . It is so interesting cause we've only met John . So I can't imagine at your level when you put something out there that people then judge on your personality .

But I just can't imagine somebody going . I met this person or I experienced this thing that they created , and it's not all who I thought they were , which is kind of wild it is , you know .

That's what it is , just let . Oh yeah , there's a pimple there , and you know you've got a lot of hair . you know , people just gonna , they just they're gonna pick it apart or in , some people are gonna be like it looks great .

They do get a heavier dose of who we are over the course , totally , you know , of the podcast . I do wanna ask a couple more questions , because we do have some more Patreon questions for you .

One of them was from Tor , and I hope that I'm not pronouncing that the wrong way , so sorry , tor , if I am , but just to sum it up , they basically said they know that you're more about the fragrance rather than the performance . You're more about the scent than the performance , but is there a threshold to where you could go ?

Wow , that smells so great , but it doesn't last long enough for me to spend this chunk of money on it . Do you have a threshold for that ?

. I have a variety of fragrances in my collection , some of which I can detect for three hours , some of which I can detect for 33 hours , and I wear them all and I have use and function for them all . And that's what it really comes down to . For me is function and use . You know like I always like to equate it to clothing .

You know , I know like the idea of integrity and performance is not really a thing with clothes . But if you think about , like I'd say , at the core for a lot of people not most people , but a lot of people the reason why they prefer their fragrance to perform is so that others can be aware of it .

Right , I think that's just kind of base level and that's where we all start and that's fine . Nothing wrong with that . On my channel I talk about . It can become problematic when that is the sole purpose of your acquiring of new fragrances , because , again , I'm a guy of authenticity . That just doesn't feel authentic .

But I cannot control what people do with their money . Do your thing . I'm not going to be like don't watch my videos . It's rank like me , I'm going to say what I say and you may not agree , but we can find a place in the middle . But in terms of clothing , you guys too , you have a variety of garments that you wear .

Some of them you might wear once a year . Some of them you might wear 13 times a year , depending on what the function is . Some of them may not get you any attention at all . Some of them get you a lot of attention .

It's just , it's about that diversity for me and at the essence of what something is , if I like it whether I'm looking at it and I like it , or I smell it and I like it then I like it all around , as long as it doesn't hurt me .

If I'm putting a fragrance on my skin and it smells amazing , but I wake up tomorrow and my hand is falling off , that's the problem . But if it's not hurting me , I'm good with that . I think there's this perspective on performance that I see this equation a lot . I see people comparing fragrances to cars .

People say , like you wouldn't wanna buy a car , that it had this number of horsepower , but it doesn't really go anywhere above 70 miles an hour . Whatever the numbers you wanna say , like you don't wanna be disappointed by this product that you spent money on , and I see that a lot .

In fact , that is probably the most common comparison I see is cars , which is very interesting . It's usually guys who make that comparison . Makes sense , yeah , yes , and the problem with that comparison is that cars and other products like them are created to perform and function of a particular way . Right , there's no real room for interpretation .

Either a car can go from zero to 60 in four seconds or it can't . It's just like there's no like . Well , if you kinda turn your head sideways and you press the gas , you get there in three seconds . Like there's no interpretation there , and that is very kind of absolute . And as long as everything in the car is working , then it will do that every time .

Utilitarian I don't see fragrance exactly . I don't see fragrance in that way . I mean we literally put it on our bodies and no one can see it . Once you spray it on , it's literally invisible and it's literally a part of you . It's a part of your presence in a room .

You know , some people might equate it to like oh , you are a person and you have a nice smelling fragrance on , but then most people will say you smell nice , it becomes you . There's a big difference between the compliment of man your fragrance smells great or you smell great . One is way more intimate than the other .

To tell someone they smell good is a very intimate compliment and not everyone is comfortable with that . And just by that alone that shows the variability and subjectivity of perfumery and the idea of wearing it out into the world as a part of you . It's not really supposed to perform . It's not like oh , it's built in Like oh .

If you look here , there's these particles here and if you zoom in on the particles , each one of them says 12 plus hours . There's 12 plus hour technology all inside of this fragrance . We have the 12 hour molecules we injected in Like they're not made that way .

Like a perfumer does have some agency over the types of fixative ingredients that they can use to hope that a fragrance lasts a little bit longer . It sticks on the skin . You know things don't evaporate quite as quickly . They have some , you know , control over that .

But if you go on fragrance and you look at any fragrance and you look at the performance ratings , you're going to see ratings on every single category . Some people are gonna say it lasted six seconds . Some people are gonna say it lasts 13 hours For every fragrance . There will be a majority for a lot of those fragrances .

But just the fact that there's variety means like this thing is not the variable . It's not like it's changing for every person . We are the variable and our detection is the variable .

There's a difference between how long something lasts and how long we can detect it Because , evolutionarily speaking , this thing was not intended to smell one cent for 13 hours , right , it's not created for that . That's why the brain tunes things out . I talk about this all the time .

If your trash is filled up in your house and it stinks , and you know , let's say like you're , you know , so you have to go to work and it's early morning . You're like , oh , you're running late , I need to take out the trash , but I don't really have time . I'll take it out right before I go . It's been like 20 minutes . You can smell it .

It smells terrible . By the time you're ready to go , you don't smell it anymore , you forget , and you go to work . You come back and oh , my God , I forgot to take out the trash . Your brain shuts that crap off , right ? And I think we , obviously we have to trust our nose because it's all we got , but we need to understand that it is not infallible .

Yeah Right , this thing is not 100% perfect all the time . So , especially if people are spraying like this all on their chest and stuff , and then they say , oh , after 45 minutes it's gone , I'm like , dude , no , we've been guilty of it , it's not gone , we've been guilty of it . I mean me too .

This is I'm learning all this from experience , because I was the same way . I'm like , oh , it doesn't last , it's crap . And I'm realized and I've had and I only spray back here now , behind the ears-ish area , kind of thing and I've had people come into my comments saying I have this fragrance . I used to think it didn't last more than three hours .

I started spraying not right in the front . Now I can detect it for nine and , like detection , it's very underplayed and people don't really think about it very much .

He started wearing it and every time he would come in I've been like wow , I was like , dude , you smell really good . We used to think it was weak in projection and longevity and I'm like I'll smell it forever on him and it smells great and it's out there everywhere .

We have dairies out here and if you live close enough to a dairy , which is like cows out there smelling like cows , if you live close enough to one , after a while you don't smell it , but everybody that drives by on a school bus is gonna be like whoo , it's strong , you know . So I totally get that .

Part of what we were probably guilty about is , anytime we'd spray a Ventus on , we'd probably spend half the day smelling our arms , going like , hmm , that smells so good , you know .

You smell good , versus your fragrance smells good because that's what the outside population is gonna think , except for you know , frag heads and stuff that smell it all the time . Well , I didn't find go , oh , that smells good . But just the way you worded that , I didn't wanna add to it .

. I'm a fan of Justin as well . My question what's the biggest thing that has changed in terms of your fragrance preferences or likes , dislikes , from when you were first into fragrances to now ?

I don't even own it anymore , to be honest . Nothing wrong with the scent . I like it , but it just doesn't really move me anymore . So I just wasn't really wearing it anymore , so I passed it on . So it just the scope has broadened . That was like . That was the scope for a period of time .

It's like oh , the stuff that smells good , the stuff that other people are gonna think smells good , that's the stuff that I wanna like . I wanna make sure at all costs that I am not offending anyone with my scent . And again , there's nothing wrong with holding that because no one wants to be offensive . I don't seek , let me find the nastiest scent .

I can spray on and then make sure that I don't care what anybody says Like no , that is ludicrous . But in addition to my philosophy on fragrance expanding , that has also affected my taste . So now I just simply like things that I didn't like before .

Like when I was first starting out , oud was something I ran away from , like the plague Anything smoky and dark , anything super ashy , anything overly resonance . I was just not about those things and I didn't make myself like them .

Over time I would come back to them and come back to them , and I have a few pillar fragrances that have been that control , so to speak , in the experiment , like Jubilation 25 or like interlude from Amouage . You know , especially interlude .

I remember first smelling that in a store , maybe two years into my journey , and the oregano like ripped my nose off and I'm like I will never smell this fragrance , ever again , ever again . It was utterly putrid to me . Now it's gorgeous , yeah , and I didn't like sit there and just , you know what I'm going to love interlude .

Let me go ahead and spend a day sniffing it until I love it . I just I would come back every now and then and be surprised like oh nose , like , are you good , like , why do I like this ? What changed ? And my nose is like I don't know , like you've been smelling stuff . You just kept doing it . So that's what I would say . Things have just broadened .

So at the center it's like you have an urban center , like a city that expands into suburbs , kind of thing . At first it was just the little city center , which was all the things that were . You know , things you could get at the department stores , things that are popping up in all the videos , things that have the most traffic . It has just simply expanded .

So I like all the same things I've always liked , but my interest is now lying in the outer limits , so to speak .

But for those of us that click into fragrances and begin to really like them , I feel like that's a good illustration of how all of our tastes have kind of done Because the same without feeling , like me and you , Ryan , that we've smelled stuff that we liked before and we still like it , but now there are things that we might not have given a chance before .

Now we're going . Oh okay , I'm just waiting for the moment when aquatic and marine notes are a thing that I like , because I haven't got there yet . I'm waiting for that . But other than that , yeah , we've come across stuff , even a couple of fragrances with a little bit of mint that originally mint would really kind of turn me off .

But occasionally now I'll smell a few fragrances with mint and I'm like it's not so bad .

She's like you should be getting 100,000 subscribers by the end of the year . There's no reason why you can't do that , yeah . And I'm like , okay , sure , and that's just , that's not me , I'm not really that guy . So that is like it's weird .

I have this , you know , signpost at the end of the year that I'm aiming for , and it's weird , but at the same time it's exciting . I'm like , okay , cool , I'm actually pushing for something .

There's a little bit more purpose driven behind my content , but also it's making me be careful , because it's so easy to just do whatever it takes to get to that milestone . And it's like , no , no , no , I want to be even more authentic if I can , and I feel like I'm kind of leaning into that .

I'm finding a way to be even more myself while growing my progression and actually speeding it up a bit . So I'm excited for discontinued growth . I'm excited for whatever is revealed to me in terms of the type of content I might start creating . You know I do .

I'm kind of a big muse guy , like I sit there and I try to formulate ideas , but sometimes things just come or I'll see something in something else that I didn't see before and it just kind of reveal itself to me and I'm like so I'm excited for whatever newness comes as well . I do have this series on my channel .

It's a it's a sad tire series called what you Think you Smell Like , and that has been . That has been an ongoing series for maybe almost two years now . It's very different . If you guys haven't had a chance to watch it , I could recommend maybe watching the first episode and see what you think .

I think there's eight episodes right now and they all kind of highlight one specific facet of the community that I find silly . But in a satirical way I've created two different characters . It's just me , but there's this actually underlying like depth to it that I am revealing little by little .

I have one more episode of this season that could be the last season I'm not sure the first and last season . I have one more episode that I still need to finish . I've been writing it . Well , I basically wrote it like six months ago and I've just been sitting on it and it's going to be the longest episode I've done thus far .

So it'll be a big project to film . I just need to make the time to do it . So I look forward to putting that out and putting the bow on the series and kind of doing a big reveal with some things , because again there's like more serious depth to the series , more than just the laughs .

But so that's something cool that I look forward to finally finishing .

But you said just saying there's a couple of characters in that is part of his comment was asking he wanted to know . He also wanted he would love to hear custom Joplin's take on the subject .

It wasn't until a few episodes in my viewers started to give the other guy who is like again , he's all these ridiculous facets of the community wrapped up into a person . So people started calling him Custon Joplin and I just started . I just kind of ran . I'm like that is hilarious , I had no plans for that , I'm going to run with that . That's his name .

So if you're asking Custon I mean if you see the videos you'll see how he feels about it . If it doesn't last , it's trash , and he will . And literally there's an episode where he is trying to throw a fragrance in the trash because it's not lasting .

That fragrance is the Orsavage Elixir and me the other character is basically trying to stop him and talk sense into himself . That's amazing .