Episode 81 What are AI Robotics Offering Us? Conversation with 30 Films & 6 Books Abigail Child on The Origin of Species Documentary

I'm super excited for you to be here. If it you're returning that Colleen Gallagher podcaster. Welcome back, you guys are going to absolutely love I mean, love this episode, I met this woman at a event where I was able to interview her on a film that she has done a documentary I should really say. And it's honestly

incredible. So it's something that you're going to be floored at something that a lot of you who follow my academic studies to global development, AI technology, this is going to be a podcast that literally blows your mind. So first of all, if you are new before we get into I

just want to share. What we represent here at this podcast is for you to be able to tune in to a community into a frequency that allows you to expand your mind your heart, and really see that you can go after your dreams and whatever avenue Your dreams are whatever way that happens for you, but to really believe and see that it's possible. And we do this through different ways of having conversations of meditations of

digital marketing. But it's all something that we're here and excited for you to be tuning in to listen to expand and have a different opportunity in life. So with that, before we get into the episode, I'm going to go through today's podcast episode, today's episode is going to be brought to you by stamps.com. I know we've had them for a little bit you guys but they are super

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needs. And so with that, we're going to welcome Abigail, which I'm super excited to share and talk with you about and I'm going to introduce you before I introduce you first I just want to say, tell us a little bit about your life and documentary because I want them to hear from you. And then I'm going to introduce you because I feel like you are such an interesting, fascinating woman like me, just reading about your bio is not going to do justice.

So I feel like just share a little bit about who you are how you got here. And what really inspired the documentary that we're going to speak about. Well, that's a lot to present oneself after so many years making films. But basically, I did a film in graduate school. And as I was doing it, I had this kind of exemplary moment where I realized film could bring together all my interests that it was the multiplicity of film that is what intrigued me, it could bring the verbal, the

image, the music, the text. And my interest at that point was also an anthropology which I think instead of becoming an anthropologist of South America, which is what I had imagined myself, because I've done some work in Mexico and New Mexico, and spoke Spanish, but that I'm going to ignore that song. Life is real. And but instead of that, I feel like I'm an anthropologist of the contemporary world of the world and the contemporary world. And that has sustained me for the

last 30 years of filmmaking. And this particular film, is the last film in a trilogy of feature films that that explore ideology and how it affects women. So the first one was Mary Shelley in the 19th century shot in Rome, I was living in Rome

for a year. And the idea of romanticism and how it fit how it both you know, the poet's Shelley, how it both inspired her she was a teenage author when she wrote Frankenstein, which is fairly amazing to imagine the first harm of you know, sci fi novel, one could argue. And then the next one I did when I was doing it, I realized I could do the 20th century with Emma Goldman and anarchism as the ideology that failed her because she was both authentic to our political beliefs, but it got in the way

of her romantic attachments. And as I'm talking you can see that I'm interested in the predicament of women being able to both have an interior love life and also a public life of achievement in what they're doing, whether it's writing, or politics. And then for the 21st century, I didn't want to do a living woman, I figured that would be doing us the gene scientists, the female gene scientists who discovered the splicing of the gene splicing.

And I was looking and I realized that androids where so much of the work is being done with female androids by men would be an interesting way to look at it, because I knew the ideology I was going to look at in the 21st century in question was science. And in that case, you know, that science promises us everything, but will it deliver, you know, all of these ideologies are very attractive,

and they're also problematic. So that was my first approach was how do I do this and I'd moved from Rome for Mary Shelley New York for Emma Goldman, and I knew I have to go to Japan for this one. So I was sort of moving westward through the into the future if you say, I love that and I I love it you share that there's a few things I want to go into before that I want to give your your actual bio now, but I love these because you're like on the right

pod gets a gig. I didn't even know all these things, but it's like I'm listening to these things. And there's so many women and men that are gonna be on this podcast that definitely have an interest in what you're sharing. And so Abigail child has been at the forefront of the experimental writing and media since 1980s. Having had having has completed more than 50 film, video works and installations and written six books, and acknowledged pioneer in montage.

Child address, child addresses the interplay between sound and image to create in the world words of Ali weekly a political filmmaking that's attentive to form. Her major projects include Is this what you were born for? a seven part work beside a film that negotiates the politics of in Internal Colonialism. 8 million, a collaboration with Avid percussionist, I keep Maury. I hope I said that right.

Okay, that redefines music video, the suburban triology is modular, did you film that pragmatically examines a politics of places and identity and mirror worlds. And multi screen installation incorporates parts of child's form film series of explore narrative X

access. Her most recent work is a trilogy, a feature that includes unbound on imaginary home movie of the life of Mary Sheila and teenage author of Frankenstein acts and interventions on the life of an anarchist, Mr. Goldman in America, and the origin of the species that explores human machine interactions and gender roles in the 21st century's child's books include six of poetry. And we'll have those listed in the bio. So you guys can are the shownotes you guys can see them all and get them if

you want. And the reason I'm just so fascinated with you, and I wanted to have you on the podcast, and I'm so grateful is when I interviewed when I had the opportunity to interview Abigail, specifically on the Origin of the Species. And this is about how we're building robots that are going to help us in the AI world. But also, is there a bias and how these robots are being built? And is

it really an ethical mess? And I think the other thing that is important to share and everything you've even brought up between even just woman? And do we have that opportunity to live and still be in the spotlight and do these things like is that really even something that's feasible? At this time in our life, and when I watched the short part of the some of the film, I should say,

I didn't watch all of it. But when I watched some of it, it was fascinating, because you were really, inside of labs of manufacturers that are asking very deep personal questions that we don't even really have legislation for yet on this, like let's say we have legislation on, you know, women can, you know, be able to get money out of a bank or they can get their own loan, like that used to not be something that was possible. Now we're getting more with, you know, maternal

rights in the working force. But this is a whole different type of workforce that we are going to experience that is going to change a lot of things in the future. And so I just, that's what I loved about you and I loved even your intro what it was before the professional one. I just think you are someone who? Well, it sounds go ahead. But what are you interested in? I mean, in other words, I'm always interested in women, women's rights, which is gender

desire. Now, these androids what was interesting to me, were the men often making these female androids. We're thinking of them to replace newscasters receptionists, and I felt they were very casual about what the role of what the role of those offices are like to be a receptionist. It's not just to say hello, go this way. It's also to answer questions. And in fact, in Japan when they use robots for receptionist at hotels, there's some problematics there because they

can't really be. I mean, that's what there's a scientist in my film. Ikegami, who talks about that spontaneity is at the heart of making life. And these robots are all programmed. That's what you have to realize. Even if they sound kind of real. They're all being programmed. They're being programmed with a body of words that they network like, like if you say, Nice day, they'll go down their list of words under weather, you know, so it's not spontaneous there. Isn't that digression there?

Isn't that response to the question they've never heard. And in fact, if you spend time with the robots, there'll be very impressive. And you do. I mean, what did another scientist Matthews shoots speak about at Tufts, who's in my film, he said that anything that moves with intention, a human being will see as life so that robots become very lifelike, and you care about them, and you don't want to insult them. We some of us don't. I'll give you detail

on that. But despite that, when you talk to them for a while, you see they repeat their words, that they're on a chain of programmed words, so they're not human yet. But on the level of the issue of women, and, and replacing women, I would say there's two dimensions there. There's one, a kind of denigration of those jobs like broadcast or receptionist, Secretary, erasing spontaneity and sort of implying that these jobs are automaton automatic

jobs. And on the other side, much more deeply coercive and weird, are the sex robots, which are both there, they are making some male sex robots, but as the owner pointed out, to me, is basically it's men buying both the women and the men, because they're buying the men for gay

relations. It's not women buying them, it's men buying and the only women buying the sex robots at this point in time, are artists who are using them as sort of ironic models and sticking boxes on their heads and doing things like that I saw one show of people using the robotics robots for their art project. So the question of that is not so much they're going to replace women, but that are

women just an object? You know, that's the that's the, the real question we all have to look at constantly, is that I heard a black man and artist talking about this, that it's so hard for black people are both objects, historically as slaves and treated as objects still in some places, but they're also subjects, and how do you become a subject and immediately on hearing him speak, I thought, but that's true for women, too.

We're treated as objects, we dress ourselves up as objects very often, you know, in the way we think about ourselves, but where we struggled to become the subjects, we struggled to have that power. And you know, you're younger than me, but I think there's, you know, what's happening in the Supreme Court today is an example of what might change where we will be treated as objects of the state, rather than subjects and control of our bodies?

Yeah, and that's a really, it is a really important topic, specifically, but I what I find fascinating about your work and what I really like, what you're sharing, even what you just shared. I think a lot of times we go through life, you know, especially in the younger generation, with a social media kind of frenzy that's gone on, it's almost like you want to be

noticed no way. So it's almost like as little girls were taught how do you how do you become noticed whether it's through smart search through beauty,

that's really the two ways. And if you look at Academia, let's say versus like an academic route versus something like an entrepreneur route with a beauty, you know, more route, you know, the entrepreneur beauty route makes has a greater ROI for someone and the ROI return on investment, the physical, tangible money, the academic side has a greater ROI on groundbreaking research that will relay to for the rest of our lives or that we will move

through in different ways. So even when you're talking about subject, right, this subject gets a greater return on this money part, but the or sorry, the object, the object gets a greater ROI on the groundbreaking sustainable transformation and evolution of this world really. And I think that's a really interesting, that's something I feel like I go through a lot as I go through my PhD and I'm also an entrepreneur like those two

things. I feel like I'm in between worlds a lot and That's why I like bringing someone like you on this podcast because a lot of times where we are talking about digital marketing or business or I don't know all these other topics, but with you it really is that here's something that I saw that's an issue. And I want to really get clear on curious how, how is that happening? And I, I feel like this movie, I'm like, I'm excited for people to see and also leave a link for where it

is. But I think it's something that it's almost challenging to sit and pause and grasp it instead of just to blow through your life and be the object in a way. Like, I think a lot of people think there's a greater moment of just choosing to be the object unknowingly, but that's what they choose. And then everything else kind of falls into place. Maybe I don't know, like, I just think it's this thing. And so I think what you're bringing up is a really

important topic. And what would you say from doing the movie or and doing the documentary? Like, what do you think, are steps, women or men could be taking daily? In whatever industry they're in to maybe transition this way the world is functioning? Oh, my goodness. That's such a big question. I mean, because I am not sure art changes people directly, I think it prepares the ground for change. That's how I've always thought about

art. That it, you know, that and I try in my work not just to be about something but to enact it. So that even in this piece, which is more of a document, a lot of my work is very experimental. And this is documentary, but I tried to keep it somewhat experimental in referencing the historical spaces in, in suggesting, in going interior to those labs in trying to get you to see what's happening that you don't know is

happening. Because I feel like so much of science is hidden from us, like, like, I wasn't thinking in the 80s. And maybe it's your thing, you know, as one was trying to be noticed, in the in my early life as a filmmaker in the 80s, I didn't think about satellites being put in the air, I was completely unaware of the science that was going on that was that affects all of us right now that enabled you to do a podcast, you know, telling us where we are. That is our phones, you know, the GPS.

So I felt like in this film, I wanted to get you to recognize that this is going on all the time. Now, when you ask how do we deal with it? I think the first step is just to know it's happening. And to be and to maybe, you know, it's it's happening with machinery, you see it in the film in some of the Montage selections. It's definitely happening in Amazon, it's happening in factories, it's putting people out of work. And that's a whole issue. But

that wasn't quite the issue. I was looking at as tightly as some of the ethics Southern, and then and there. I think, as individuals, certainly, on The Sex Robot part, I think everyone men and women have to realize that we're bodies, that we are not objects per se, that the world of social media, perhaps I mean, I was reading that adolescent boys are learning how to treat women through the Internet porn. And it's

devastating. And both and women and men are learning about sexual relations through pornography, which is not a very healthy way to negotiate other

people's bodies. So on one, you know, that's not an exact correlation to the film on this particular film origins of the species, which is, but I do think the sex robots really tells you something about what you were saying, is that question between the the object in the subject and I think the choices to really go to the subject, that that even though you what your ROI, which I've never heard of before, return on investment, yeah,

sorry. My business, right, that we're like, in this different worlds, you know, look at me in this thing is funny. Technology, you know, we're living in it. But I can't tell you what to do. I can just try to let you see what's happening. And hopefully that that will terrify you enough to, to respond when when the moment hits, you know, and maybe some people will, will, you know, maybe some, I don't know, I really don't know how it affects

people directly. I mean, I met some audience members who couldn't look at the sex part. They was like, not me was strange, right. Other people couldn't look at the operation on the head. Like when the brain was open, they have to turn away Whereas for me, that is actually the most scientific part of it. Because I mean, not scientific, the most sci fi part of it, because I don't know if you saw that part, but for power pelagics, and it's the most

hopeful part of this. AI and Android, and scientific discoveries, I think, is where, and it was mostly the women scientists who wanted to keep the human in the picture, that it wasn't just a world of robotics, it was a world in which robotics could facilitate human life. So I think that's really perhaps the most hopeful aspect. And if your audience can, can go in that direction, you know, that instead of burying ourselves in our phones, we look up a little bit, you know, we realized that we that

we are flesh. And that that is really, I mean, I mean, I feel like I'm saying the obvious, but it's obviously disappearing is, is you have to look up from your machine, you don't want to go into the machine, you want the machine to be an aid to you to facilitate your life not overtake your life. Maybe that's a myth.

I think that's I think that is, and I think that's a really important key because there's two things you said, and I watched the Paris Hilton documentary, actually, now it's a little bit different than what we're sharing here. But it starts out with actually saying that they say love is the most powerful force in the planet, but we actually believe fear is because and I was like, You know

what, I agree with that. Because if you have a fear that's so deep inside of you, you will do whatever you can to protect that fear, you will do whatever you can to not have that fear. Come True in a way, like you'll do everything at all cost. And so I'm happy to share that. And I think it's really important. The other thing I think is important that you shared, is that the

technology? Here's the ADAs and I definitely agree, because I'm a big technology proponent i and in the right way, it's you know, how I've built my business, it's how I've, you know, helped 10s of 1000s of people in areas,

different areas of life. And so there's a lot of really good things I like about it, but there's also responsibilities that come with it, like an example is that Sam these platforms and like things that, you know, multiple things that just happened over the past two years, really, you as a leader in the technology space, or if that's your business platform, you need to be mindful of the regulations that are spoken unspoken about what to speak

about. So that you can still show up for people who are relying on you, or let's say like, if you go to a specific news channel, it's guaranteed kind of what their edge is going to be what these platforms, it's what's beautiful about them, as they're making it very diverse and inclusive of many people with many ideas that come on, but you still do have to be mindful of these different regulations when you're on the platform to then have your

community off the platform. So that was something even they're talking about control. That's a little bit of an interest control. It's not misnomer, maybe men and women. I'm sure we can dwindled down to that if we got the numbers or whatever it was. But I think these are

really important things. And I think that what you're sharing, I agree is is how do we look at all these digital or digital creations and also in person creations we can make through technology, to aid us in making our life a possibility to have more time to be in silence, to be in stillness to hear the creative voices to then go and do whatever it is, instead of using these different AI or technology, aids to numb us and

distract us. And I think that's really the big takeaway from like, even what you're saying, it's like what part of it? Is it becoming another addiction or numbing like another just form of that taking place? Versus it actually becoming a form that's here to advance us in the creation, which is what we're really here for? Right? No, I think that's

absolutely true. And in the film, what they're doing is they're connecting the guy's brain so he can think to move the robot arm that figured out the impulses that your brain and it turns out hand movements are on the very top of the brain. So they've gone for that first, so they implant and then he fix so he's sitting in his chair, and he can move a hand by thinking, but even crazier, if they touch the robot hand, he feels it as if it's touching him. Yeah. And that's completely sci

fi. It's completely crazy. It's like so could you do this across planets? You know, could you reach could you touch people at a distance is what's going on

there? Yeah, so I'm gonna be like another it's almost like that would be I consider like the I mean, I there are more than the five senses but if you know that would actually I feel like almost be the introduction of a real tangible I mean, the other senses are real, but I tell tangible six cents, six cents, which, in the film there, the woman scientists, when I was trying to say the woman scientist seems so much stronger about keeping the human in the picture, but one of them

is on the sensory. And her argument was she said, for robots to really evolve, they would have to develop touch. Because that's, you know, robots can beat somebody at chess, but they can't pick up a pencil. So it's the fine tuned things that we do with our bodies with our flesh that robots can't do, they can't register, the softness, or the harshness of skin, they can't feel those things and to pick up a pencil is much too hard for them. So that's really

interesting. But what I mean, I had a thought in there too, that that? Well, I guess it's we have to really struggle outside the machine. And the machines are, you know, the machines are us, or we've become the robots in terms of our response to the world. You know, that we feel less powerful, powerless, we feel powerless. So we we don't move forward to make the changes that we need to make perhaps, say the US voting is so low in the percentage of people who vote, you know, and part of that

is we're so turned off. And in a way, we're turned off through the machines, the machines of the radio, the machines of the internet, the machines of our headphones, the machines of our phone itself. So it's a struggle. I mean, I do think this I felt it for years, and it just has gotten more and more intense. I was just telling, I have an assistant who's 23. And I was just telling him yesterday, you know, up until I

was about 40. I mean, I could go to India for a month, and just not be in contact with anybody, like sit for one half day writing postcards. But there was no internet. I didn't there was no phone, you know, would it be too sensitive to do a transatlantic phone? She could be lost and being lost is lost. Now. You know, we're never lost. I I really like that. It's funny, because you wouldn't know this. But my podcasters. So as people know, like, I just went to Cabo. But it was kind of like

this. I think it was a place where I didn't there's the longest, I've never traveled internationally. Like I've been to 42 countries and I want to move to LA, I studied a PhD, I gotten like a serious relationship that I really cared about. And then everything happened, obviously with the world. And I just didn't travel International. And I think there was a part of me because I do have it such that wonder last like, I don't know, I think that's how I've written a book a

year. And like, I don't know how I've done all this stuff, like my 24 I should say stuff, but my 21 online courses, my growth, the podcast that products like how I've done it all, it's, I was this base of really being lost. And I one of my mentors even said, like, we don't take this time to sit in contemplation, like that's, that is how we're supposed to be designed is to be in contemplation. And we don't do

that enough. Like the world isn't designed that and it would be weird if someone's like, Oh, what are you doing? And you're like, Oh, I'm sitting in contemplation. Be like, that's just not a thing like, like, but that's like how we are actually designed. And so I love that you brought that up, because I think that was honestly an experience it just went on was kind of

being lost. And it was kind of one of those things where I booked my hotel, I had every hotel like a few days in advance, and then basically what like book a new one, or if like I was like changing, but they're how long? About three weeks? Okay, great. So it was like one of those things. And I did that before when I grew my business. But it made me realize how much I kind of forgot that I lost that part of me. And it's so

important. Because when you do that, like I met so many incredible people, and it was just that thing that I kind of Yeah, you need it. We all need it. And if you don't have it, you kind of get programmed back into this matrix way of living. Yeah, exactly. And I'm there too. I mean, there's no question I you know, workaholic. Stuck. Yeah. So I don't know. So I really love that you shared

that. And I I think the most important thing too, was I want everyone to realize when you guys go watch the Origin of the Species. And like I said, we'll leave it in the show notes. I think why your work is so important and why I love what it is because you've really looked in between lines that a lot of times it's very easy to merge these lines with bigger issues or bigger topics and you've really broken it down to a very simple concept like and I mean, not simple but a very easy to

digest concept. And through that when people watch it like that some people can't watch it because it's so like alarming to them. It's not it's they're not able to have their court front yet Bruce frontal cortex, have it enter into their vision to like even process and that just tells you right there if we have a film like this, who's giving such a great documentary on what's really happening and people aren't able to digest it. It's like what else is happening in the world that people are not

digesting? already that's available. And so I think that's what I really love the most about interviewing you and your documentary. And I hope that my audience gets to see and be able to go and watch it as well. Yes, it's on Apple TV and iTunes, I guess both of them. Yay, perfect. Yeah, I'll leave a link in the show notes. I'll find it. So it's there. And you guys will have access to it. But it's definitely one you're going to

want to watch. Like, it's one of those movies that documentaries, movies, I keep saying, but it was one of those ones, you see it? You can't unsee once you've seen something like it's like, you can't unknow once you know something like no matter how hard and I think what I love about this is because I do love AI more for the online education space than this. But I mean, that's where I really believe in massive open online courses. And, you know, how do we create

that? How do we really get more of a co creative learning experience between student and government or educate, you know, institutions? And how do we really do that? And instead of standardized testing, but there's still AI highly involved in that, and the design and the, you know, development? But with this, you know, could I imagine a teacher in the front of the room being a robot, and it being

something that's working? Like, I don't know, like, you know, I can I don't think so I don't think so quite because I couldn't address all the student, you know, issues, because I guess what I'm thinking, Oh, God, well, I just think students are surprising. I'm, I'm actually after doing this film. I actually don't think robots will achieve what we're drinking. Yeah, what we're drinking, I don't know for hoping but but

what we're dreaming. I picked that word specifically, because I'm not sure we're actually hoping for an imitation, mechanical, human. But it's what we're dreaming. And that was also what I was trying to do in the piece was give you the historic our Dreamspace. So I have metropolis, the film from the 20s with them. And and, you know, I tried to pick sort of beautiful and Copiah, which is a

ballet. And what's interesting to me about all these historical, often movie, but also ballet versions of androids, is the humans are always afraid. They're either going to be smarter than the human, they're going to take over the human, they're going to defeat or argue with the human race. So it's almost and I've had the scientists say, no, no, no, they're programmed by humans, they're not going to be

able to do that. And then people say, but what if they learn on their own, which of course is true, they are beginning to improve on their own. But I think it's a projection and it's what you were speaking of human fear, trade. I mean, Frankenstein reached a really deep place, Mary Shelley, as a 19 year old teenager, reached a really deep place when she suggested that a creation we make might attack us. That's such a primeval fear. I mean,

it's but it's strange. I don't think we feel that about our children, but we are feeling it about these mechanical beings. And is that like, a projection of our own warrior being of our own anger, a difference which we are seeing in the world today? I have another series of film, which really looks at how people who are very close together will fight. And I was thinking Serbian, Croatian? I mean, that's a whole that's a whole different. Yeah, it's a whole issue.

But is it that when we create a vision of ourselves, we are afraid of it? The difference is what you know, as artists, we welcome difference. But I think civilians, if you will, can be afraid of difference. That's profound ever. Yeah. I've

never thought about that. And it's I that really is profound, because I think I've often I've said this before on this podcast, but I've also I've often felt like a little alien running around this world, because it's like, I you know what you said, I've, I was born into parents who are attorneys, but I've always had this force in me that was this. And I've always been like, like you said, like, I'll just pack up and put my stuff and I'll go here and go there. And most people are like,

why? It's like, how does it give you anxiety? And I'm like, no, like, I thrive on it, like it. And so I like that you think of yourself as an alien. I just gave a lecture and I said, as a woman, I feel like I'm an alien. And when he was like, I was like, Abigail, I feel like you're on the right podcast. He's in so many things. I was like, you're

talking to but there you go. But I think what what you said is profound, that civilians and the creatives and artists I think a lot of my people here they are people we should say but they they're in that space of they've been locked into a corporate space. They didn't know anything different. That was new, but they do know there's something special and different about them and they're really on that brink. That's this audience of breaking free breaking into the

next thing. I think that's why we'll You offer so divine and amazing because if you would have logically been in a corporate space, and you had these thoughts in your head of I want to do this, or I want to do that I want, like you had these thoughts, right. And that was not the way you were raised or born or thought to take action on or lead to take action, or you weren't given something that there was a fear. So deep inside of you there, like I have to do this or allistic, that fear

wasn't living inside of you. You did it. And I think a lot of people here they're building that fear, they're beginning to realize that this ideas, these thoughts I have inside of me are actually something I could do something about, like, I could be a creative, I could be an artist, and we don't have a framework in society for artists. Yeah. And that's why you know, I love what I'm doing.

And that's why I love like the massive open online courses, that's this is a little bit different the way we're so we were sharing but we'll transition here, but we had the Origin of the Species and you have the when you have these if you hadn't, you had a robot teacher, right. But if the new age education system, which I think it's going more towards going to be more of the student has access to different massive online open edge courses, basically, they're going to be

choosing it. And that's like a foundation part of the watch videos or choose things and then they'll basically choose like an in person retreat or whatever, obviously, from a from a big leader like yourself, or like someone narrowed in niche into whatever it is that they're doing that they found you only through these massive online courses that the AI then pointed into from niching it down into

what they're doing. And so if you had a robot in a tea in a room like that, like if you have people show up, and you had to have a robot there because they're all the all the kids or teacher or all people are taking different courses, but whatever it is, but they're just happy to be there. At that time to take a call or you know, for certain number hours to be in seat or whatever that it is. I don't even know if that's relevant

anymore. It might that might be irrelevant now too, but I could see how that would be useful maybe just to make sure like okay, people are there do we need to get you water? Do we need to do this? Like I could see how something like that would be useful cuz you don't need a physical teacher may be there at that point. It's completely but God. I don't need a physical body is too far away anyway. You know, I would like it a little

more in person. But um, I do you know, your hybrid, you have hybrid? Ai? Have you done like aI testing? I mean, I had from when I was a kid, they would do those just, and the trouble with automated tests, is they, you know, they're usually multiple choice or Oh, no automated test. So okay, massive open online courses aren't automated tests. Those are there people? Aren't they talking?

Yeah. It's like, it's like a person like yourself or me who basically did a course let's say it's like we did a smaller course. Murder Yale have them. Yep. So you would do that. And so they're so and you we can't get rid of in person classroom. That's never that that can't happen. That's not part of the education system. But the way that it has been up until this point, is also not how it's worked. So it's like there has to be more of a hybrid model. I feel for some guys, here that yeah, so

some of these. So I'm saying I think there might be some I could see maybe in some incidences that have to be a very defined, outlined, specified model of where a robot wouldn't teach, but would just be in the room almost like facilitating not as a test taker? I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to think about it more. I guess I was thinking about that, though. Because I do, you know,

it could be possible. But what people really want to because what I know, I had mentioned before, that there was a robot, it wasn't very human looking. It wasn't as advanced as the ones I was looking at in my film, but that was wandering through Canada for several months. And then they came to the US. And when they came to the US and ended up in Philadelphia streets, they got attacked by a group of people. I don't even know who it was, I think it was a group of men boys, maybe who

destroyed it. So I think there is also some fear and antipathy towards a robot being. So I'm not sure. I mean, would you really want to have one of those characters from my film teaching you there? So I love your teaching, you know, but but but even you know, on screen talking, they're kind of still I mean, maybe they will end up looking more simulacrum of humans. But I think it's a long way away, particularly the face. I love the guy in my film, who says, once they talk, they seem

fake. So he was more interested in the emotional responses of the eyebrows going up, or the mouth changing, then actually talking. So I think it'll be let's say, look human and can be more spontaneous. I'm not sure people want to listen, I think you're right. A long time with with a robot. No. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's, I think, yeah, I

think you're right. I guess I was just trying to find where this would be where something like this would be relevant because it's Obviously in the documentary, but I think that was probably my long shot of thinking in my mind. But you're right, I don't know, I wouldn't want it. And yeah, I think I just, I'm really excited that we got to talk, I'm really excited people gonna be able to listen to this. And I think I'm really excited to be able to watch the Origin of the Species because it

does open your mind. And I think the most important thing is it creates a opportunity for conversation to occur. And anytime conversation or dialogue happens, there's always an opportunity for growth and insight and evolution and ideas. And so I think that's what's so beautiful, what you've created, and I'm excited for more people to watch it, I'll definitely leave the link in the show

notes. And then if you have any last things where people can find you, or any last things that you want people to know, I'd love before we wrap it up. Well watch the film, spread it around, that would be really fantastic. unreachable online, under WW Abigail, child calm, but also Origin of the Species film.com. So they can always send responses to those websites. But I guess what I was thinking is, we really, we just need to be aware of the machines

in our lives. And I also I use Amazon, you know, I'm, as you know, guilty or inside the world as all of us. And I think we really have to admit we're a body, that we are not just machines that we are bodies, we are not virtual, completely. I mean, here I was, I've been dealing with the virtual in the 21st century, but it's because I have an ambivalence about science, that that as we're creating things, are we thinking

of its implications? Like I don't think they only a few scientists only realized late the implications of nuclear energy, and the atomic bomb. And and, and they often regretted it. And I think we're at a state now to think about machines and how we're being surveillance and what it means for liberty. And and maybe back to that, who is the subject? Who is the object? How can we stay as subjects with feelings and bodily feelings? Even as, and I know what I was

gonna say. And it's not just for ourselves, it's also in relation to the earth. Yeah. Like, and that was, the other thing I thought about in my film is, are we creating these mechanical beings, because we know we're destroying the earth. And we want something to live on beyond us. But that's such a death wish, in a way. It's sort of projecting death onto the planet, and our our death onto a planet that will go on without

us. But you know, and it saddens me because I feel human beings for all their failures, their wars, their violence. We're also amazing. We've built cities, architecture, writings, poetry, symphonies, you know, the art that human beings have made, the concepts, the ideas, it's amazing. There's a wonderful film, I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna call particle fever, which is about the CERN. You know, the CERN research in Switzerland on

particle research. And at the end of the film, there's a scientist physicist from Stanford, who says, Isn't it amazing that human beings can learn this or think this about workers? And I, I do think we're an amazing species that's evolved. And I would hope we don't perform a death wish but that and that's what I would ask my audience to look at the film and come to life. Come, you know, that we need to be Yeah, I love that. I know that. I mean, yeah, that I think that

is the come to life. I think you said a lot of powerful things in here. The subject versus object come to life. There's a couple other worldly good ones, you had some excited for us to highlight it. And I'm super grateful for your time and to my audience. I'm super grateful. Glad you're here. I hope you guys really

enjoyed this one. I know it's a little bit different than our usual but I feel like it honestly offers such a good grasp of where you can go if you just follow the nudges inside of you, leading you to your dreams. And so with that, make sure to share it, leave a review and definitely make sure to go watch the Origin of the Species. It'll be in the show notes so you guys know get it. I love you so much and have a beautiful, beautiful day. Thank you