The volume.
Okay, my friend and somebody I admire greatly, Ian O'Connor has a new book out on Aaron Rodgers. And before we get to that, I want you to grab your smartphone and I want you to download the game Time App. It will take you ninety seconds. It's so valuable. Game Time is an authorized ticket marketplace for Major League Baseball. So you want to go to a Dodger game, a Braves game, an Astros game, a Cubs game. The great thing about the game Time app is that it makes
it really easy. You can preview the seats before you buy them. That's a bonus. You're going to know where you're sitting. It takes the guesswork out of buying a Major League Baseball ticket with game Time. The prices go down on the game Time app. The prices go down for the tickets the closer you get to the first pitch. Right, so if you you know it's one of those things, you can drive to the game and when you get close, because it's probably not a sellout, you can buy it
right before you go inside the stadium. That's pretty cool, is it not? Yeah? Download the game Time app. Create an account, use my name COLINSLN twenty bucks off your first purchase. So that's the redeem code COLN. So basically, you take the guesswork out of buying Major League Baseball tickets. Closer you get to the game, the tickets get less expensive. You can preview where you're sitting, an authorized marketplace for Major League Baseball, down the game time app today, last
minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Well, I only get the opportunity a couple times a year because he's the hardest working man in print journalism in America. You know, Connor, my friend, He's got a book. I cannot wait to read it. I've already had several shots at several chapters and it's so in depth. It's called Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers. It comes out next month. You know what, As she've written this book, it helped me to laugh. But Aaron's like a story a week.
Guy at I keep thinking, do you have to keep doing updates for the book?
I did, actually, Colin, and thank you very much for the kind words I handed in the book in January. And at that point, after asking to get him for months and getting no response or being told he's thinking about it, assuming at that point he's not going to talk to me. And generally my biographies they've been unauthorized with limited or no cooperation from the main subject. So and then in February I got a message from the Jets, well,
he's actually now willing to talk to you. And it wasn't going to be a ten hour sit down where he told me his life story, but it was more a fact checking hour or two. So I got two hours with him and great, So he answered some questions, he made the book better, and then after that you had the RFK Junior story drop that, you had the Sandy Hook conspiracy story drop, and then some podcasts he did after my access to him, where more conspiracies were
talked about, and so listen Aaron Rodgers. He was a very difficult subject to get your arms around. I thought Belichick was tough, but compared to Rogers, I think Belichick was a walk in the park because he was a mystery that I felt like there was a sameness to it at the same time, and he was right in front of me, and I always felt that Rogers was a moving target, and so it was a challenge and hopefully I conquered it. I guess the readers will will let me know if I did.
Yeah, I think, you know, complex people are interesting, and I've said Aaron's really good content for me. There are parts of Aaron that I've said on the show before. My theory on Aaron. One of them is he just pushes back on authority. His family was very religious. He pushed back on it. He pushed back on the Packers, He's pushed back on the media. He's pushed back on the government vaccines. Whether that's a good quality or not, it can be unsettling to people covering him. But my
belief is he's a non conformist. Many of the people in our lives, musicians and artists we have celebrated, are non conformists. Is there a bit of artistry to his personality. That's probably the wrong word, but in my life we have often celebrated there's a construct of football that we want organizational, dependable, reliable personalities. And is it arguable or debatable he's more of an artist in a structured sport.
That's a great question. And I'm used to Eli Manning that model that Eli Manning Derek Jeter in New York and Aaron is the complete opposite of that. And so, but there is an art to creating a news cycle rolling out of bed, and that's what he can do. He can do that better than anyone else. Maybe in all sports. He can create a news cycle like that. So, and we've seen that over the years. And I think he loves being interesting. I think he loves being talked about.
He loves being analyzed. I don't think he loves the way the news media has treated him in recent years. I think his viewpoints politically generally are in contrast with what he believes is the liberal media, largely liberal media, and he's right for the most part. And you look at him, though, what's interesting is his life, his public life. Colin changed with COVID because before COVID and the I've Been Immunized press conference in August of twenty one, he
was not considered a villain. He was a guy who is very socially aware. Back to Colin Kaepernick and the right to kneel in protest, he actually rebuked the fan who screamed out or shouted out an anti Muslim slur in the middle of the national anthem. I think it was right after the Paris terrorist attacks and got a letter of congratulation, congratulations or thanks or appreciation from President Obama.
Mina Kimes had that, and so he was sort of known as as an athlete who was socially aware and engaged in the issues and really on the right side of the issues. And all of a sudden, COVID and his stance against vaccines changed everything for him in terms of his public image.
Yeah, and by the way, he wasn't the only person to do that. I don't view him as a conservative. I view him as more of a contrarian, a little bit of a Joe Rogan. Rogan's never had Trump on his podcast. He says he doesn't want him. And I think Aaron has said, you know about like Trump, who's the ultimate like alpha Republican, which is like he didn't drain the swamp. It's just a different from swamp. So I think sometimes we view Aaron through a political prism
and I just see him as a nonconformist. And I think it probably that stuff. At some point. You can trace it back to his childhood, and let's pivot to that. You wrote the book. What do we know about his childhood?
He was raised in a very conservative Christian evangelical home.
And I think I talked to a family member, and you know, of course, for the better part of ten years, he has not had any contact with his immediate family, his two brothers, right, so I think he ultimately And one family member told me that this person felt that when he went to Berkeley, when he went to cal and all of a sudden, he leaves this cocoon, this small town in northern California, overwhelmingly white, Chico, California, and is at cal Berkeley, this global institution, pot of ideas
and races and nationalities, and just got exposed to a lot of different things and beliefs, and that that really inspired a rebellion against those Christian beliefs that he was raised with, and that that rebellion inspired other rebellions against other things. And I had a good friend of his when he was younger say to me, we all we believed in magic. Aaron and I did, and together we talked about that. And when you believe in magic, you
believe in the possibility of almost everything. And this person felt that that opened the door to conspiracy theories too. And listen, he he studied the JFK assassination as a sophomore in high school. He was fascinated by it, came to believe that was a conspiracy that involved a government agency,
and that inspired other conspiracy theories as well. So I think right now he actually told me that religion is really a small part of the estrangement that But I do think that if you go back to his childhood, certainly he now does not consider him self religious. He considers himself spiritual. But I think you see the seeds of rebellion planet in his own rebellion against those beliefs that he now does not hold.
Yeah. There, I'm gonna throw this out and you can latch onto this, and if there's any story in the book that corroborates or refutes this, go ahead. But I've said one of the statistics with Aaron that doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface is his lack of come from behind wins. In the NFL twenty one playoff games he has won that would be low for a bad quarterback. He's an all time great and I've often used, you know, maybe it's tried a little glib.
He's more of a Baylor than a baller. Is that when he plays poorly early, he quits that he's not a fox hole guy, He's just brilliantly gifted. Jeter was more of a leader, a Rod was more talented. Brady's more of a leader, Aaron's just more talent. And that I look at him, that there's a lack of fundamental, lack of trust in a process, and when he struggles early in games, his body language shifts. When he trails late in games, there's a lack of trust for the
play calling. And that's part of his personality. It's the only thing I can figure out and decipher why a gifted quarterback in twenty one playoff games has only one come from behind win. Does any of this line up with some of his unique personality quirks or his fundamental base personality.
Well, when he was younger, he was a fearless postseason player. And I think what he won four of his first five postseason games, and the throw he made to beat Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl, the third down throw over the middle to Jennings, is one of the great throws in Super Bowl history. On third down. If that passes incomplete, I think the Steelers win that Super Bowl. And so he makes that play and other plays in that game
and in that postseason run. If you go back Colin as I did, of course, and looked at particularly the game against Atlanta and the playoffs that year that he won it, you cannot play the position at a higher level than that. Right, He had some Alan Iverson type ankle breaking moves to escape guys in the pocket that were just unbelievable, and the throws he made and just the way he played in that game was it was art. It was just hard to believe somebody could play at
that level. And after watching that game and seeing him win the Super Bowl, it is really hard still after studying his career in his life, to come to grips with the fact that the Packers could not figure out a way to win a second rate with this guy. It's just unbelievable. One thing I'll point out, so this doesn't really relate to his upbringing or character traits, but he listen, if they recover an onside kick, He's in
the second Super Bowl. They don't recover an onside kick, and didn't do six other things in the final minutes of that game. And by the way, and by the way, that comeback drive to tie and send it into overtime against Seattle is totally forgotten. Was an amazing drive by Aaron Rodgers to get that game into overtime after the team and really the coaching staff around him fell apart.
So that doesn't count because they lost, but just in that building, the loudest building in the NFL, after the rest of the team really folded around him to drive that team down the field to force overtime and lose it basically on a coin toss. So that's a tough one. Because they get to the Super Bowl that year. They had beaten New England in the regular season, so they would have a lot of confidence against Brady in the
Super Bowl that year. But he did not have Belichick. Okay, Mike McCarthy was not a bad coach, but he's not even close to Belichick. Tom Brady also had the best offensive coordinator of his generation, and Brady had this great system that Belichick created, and Aaron Rodgers had a slightly better than average head coach and didn't have that system or offensive coordinator a lot of times, didn't have a great defense. And so I think that's that. Hey, it's there,
and it's part of his legacy. The lack of comeback victory certainly is right there on his record, but he very easily, in a different situation would have the multiple rings that he doesn't have right now that everybody holds against him, and he has a part in that too. There were postseason victories that he left on the field that he could have made a play to overcome somebody else, and he didn't do that, and that is part of his record as well.
Yeah, I think he's been fairly portrayed as a quarterback as Marino level gifted, we're wanting more postseason success, a little prickly, personally indifferent, but an all time great, and I think that's incredibly fair. I always preferred him over far Of. I thought he could play instructure and out of it, whereas I thought Brett was arder to coach and a little bit more of an old style gunslinger, where Aaron could do a little bit of that but
also played in structure very very well. I don't think he's been unfairly criticized. I do think, like a Joe Rogan, when you're a news maker, the media are filled full of human beings, they tend to take sides. There does feel like a little bit of a negative pivot off Aaron. Do you think he will often say it doesn't affect him. Do you think it's had a corrosive effect on his personality in some of his acts.
I think so. I think that's a fair way to look at it, Colin and Listen, he's brought a lot of this on himself, and I think he's for a guy as smart as he is, a guy who had thirteen ten on his SATs and is very thoughtful and engaging and can talk about so many different things. He's intellectually curious, and I've always thought he's one of the best,
if not the best interviews in the league. Yeah, he's always he's a great talker, but he has said some things that he's had to take back, and I think like, for instance, the Jimmy Kimmel thing on McAfee. Right, So, he did not go on the program that day planning to talk about Epstein and Jimmy Kimmel and the Epstein list, but A J Hawk, one of his good friends, blurted it out a question. And obviously that show is very free flowing and McFee does a great job with it.
But it's the way he responded to aj Hawk off the cuff on the fly that got him in trouble, and I think he was very careless with his words. I actually believe he was not trying to say that
he thought Kimmel was on the list. I think he's always been waiting for an opportunity to get back at Kimmell form making fun of him previously on his show regarding Aaron's belief or he suggested that all of a sudden, we're getting all this information out of the government about UFOs to divert attention away from the Epstein list, and kim Ol mocked him for that, so he was trying
to get back at him. But the way he said it, if you didn't know the context in the background, you would believe that Aaron Rodgers was suggesting that Jimmy Kimmel was going to be on that list, and of course he wasn't, so he put himself in that position. He got himself in trouble, and it was just once you try to explain it days later, as he tried to do, you've lost. You know that, once you have to expel something like that, you've already lost. And so there are
cases like that in his career. That are dumbfounding, because he is a very intelligent guy, and so I'd say that he has brought a fair amount of that on himself.
All right, forget what the calendar says. The football season actually to me starts Saturday. The Baltimore Ravens open their camp for the rookies. DraftKings has a Best Ball Millionaire contest. It is the biggest fantasy contest ever. We're talking fifteen million guaranteed dollars in the prize pool, fifteen million from DraftKings. That's a big number with two two millionaires being crowned for first and second place. That is life changing. If you're a set it and forget it type, then Best
Ball is for you. No waiver wires, no roster management, bigger rosters, so injuries won't end your season, only the draft and that's it. You are set for the season. I like that, right, So you can play it and have a life too. Check it out. This year, DraftKings offering everyone a Draft one, get one special. Everybody gets this. Your twenty dollars entry fee that's at twenty bucks scores you a bonus ticket. So get ready for the Best Ball Week at DraftKings. Download the DraftKings app. You know
takes ninety seconds. Put in the code column that's me Coli n All customers who enter the NFL Best Ball fifteen million Millionaire Contest get a bonus ticket only during Best Ball Week only on DraftKings.
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New York call eight seven seven eight, open wire, text hope and wyatt four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org eighteen and over in most eligible states, but age
varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply one per customer and to the Best Ball fifteen million Dollar Contest by nine to five twenty four to get one bonus entry twenty dollars entry fee required. Reward expires at contest lock on nine four. See terms at DraftKings dot com slash dfs.
The book is called Out of the Darkness. The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers comes out next month. What part of the book was the most interesting for you. There's there's his grandfather, there's his parents, there's his childhood, there's Berkeley, there's Green Bay, there's sitting behind FARV, there's taking over for FARV. There's the prime years, there's the departure, the
exit from Green Bay. Was there a part of the book that you you really there were surprises, There were left turns that you really found you were as you were compiling the information writing it. It was easy to write. You really enjoyed it.
At the chapter one community college is one year and at JUCO.
Oh, it's great, it's great.
I love that his coach, Craig Rigsby, is the Charles Barkley of JUCO coaches. He was a great chapter, great character, Thank you. And so. But I would say the story that I really actually enjoyed researching and reporting on the most was about his grandfather, because you know, I had heard him passing it. Occasionally. You'd see it briefly mentioned in a story that his grandfather served in World War Two,
and that was pretty much the extent of it. You might see an occasional reference to the fact that he was a POW. And so in Finding there's a guy in Minneapolis named Dan Matthews who's a military records expert. And this guy was gold and he found a lot of this for me. I found some of it as well, but documenting every mission that Edward Rogers flew as a B twenty Wow combat pilot, and including one on Saint Patrick's Day in nineteen forty four where his plane was
hit multiple times. His engine on the left side, one of the four engines is on fire. He's flying over in Nazi Germany, and the rest of his squadron they weren't abandoning him, but it was protocols part of their mission. They had to peel off and go to the next stage of the mission. And he was all alone, on fire over Germany in a B twenty four that he was flying with ten men aboard, and he had to make decisions, and he said, I felt like the loneliest
man in the world flying off Nazi Germany. And so the story is he somehow flew that plane back to the American base in Italy. They got down safely, so effectively he saved eleven lives, including his own. And I wanted to open the book with that chapter because there's so much negativity about his family that I wanted to
actually write a positive story about his family. And his grandfather was an amazing combat pilot who flew forty four missions, forty three of them successful against Hitler's war machine shot down on the forty fourth, was beaten and mistreated as a pow, told war crimes investigators of his mistreatment, and we have all of that in the book, and I think that actually was my favorite chapter.
Yeah, it's by the way, it is such an impressive feat of reporting. I was a bit in awe of you reading that chapter. I sometimes, you know, Walter Isaacson will do this, you will do this.
I'm not. Don't mention me in the same sense with it, but thank you.
I've sometimes you guys that write these books, you just go a mile deep, and I'm jealous of not only the time you have to do it, but your ability to find it, bring it to light and tell it artfully. I just think it's so fascinating now. I always thought there was such a unique, interesting contrast between this great looking hipster that went to Berkeley that ends up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the smallest talking about the loneliest places in the NFL. Do you think Aaron on a social level,
what was Green Bay like for him? That's always been fascinating. I know, he goes to Malibu in the off season, but for about twenty weeks, you live in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Didn't you think he liked it appreciated it.
He did. And it's funny because after he got drafted, of course, he's very disappointed that he plunged in the first round. He was supposed to a lot of people thought he should have gone number one to his childhood team San Francisco. That was his dream. The Niners pick Alex Smith instead, so he falls to twenty four to Green Bay and Thomas Weatherspoon, former NCAA champion sprinter, was a trainer for Aaron Rodgers. A guy made him faster, and he said to him, this is great. This is
like Chico with snow and they Green Bay quarterbacks. In Green Bay, they're gonna build a statue for you and they're gonna love you to death, and there's no better place to be. So this plunge in the first round is really a blessing in disguise, and I think Aaron
saw that. And now I don't think the Green Bay community embraced him like it embraced Brett Farr, because they saw Farv is one of us, even though he was from the South, yes, right, hunter fisherman, hanging out with the boys in the bar, high fiving fans over a beer by everyone around in the bar until of course he went into until he got sober, and and then that changed a little bit. But yeah, they saw he is one of us, and I don't think they ever
saw Rogers as one of us. But I think it was a really good fit for him, coming from a small market, being overlooked, coming a juco guy, and then he ends up in Green Bay and it really was a great marriage, even though it wasn't the same relationship with the fans that Farv had. And it just can't believe that they only won oneampionship with him when you look at the talent, and some of it is his fault,
but it's a shame. And really, at the end for John Elway, he got a second ring, got his first ring in a second ring at the end of his career, and Peyton Manning got that second ring right at the end of his career. And I think that it would be a good thing really to see Aaron Rodgers get that second ring before he retires, because he's too good to retire with one ring. Thankfully, he's got one and not zero, because we'd be really destroying him for that.
But he really should retire with multiple rings. And hey, listen, the Jet fan base is the most fatalistic fan base I've ever encountered, and at some point it's going to happen. Entering the two thousand and four season, the Red Sox fan base thought it would never happen, and it did. Entering twenty sixteen, the Cubs fan base thought it would never happen, and it did. The New York Ranger fan base in ninety four thought it would never happen, and it did. So at some point it will happen for
the Jets. Hopefully it'll be this year.
So when you gave me the early to middle chapters of the book, and it's the kind of stuff folks, you just pick a weekend when it's raining in the fall and sit and read. It's just easy to devour. I did not get the final chapters. Is there much in it about the Jets? It's a very brief part of his career, and if anything is there, the relationship with Sola, two good looking young guys, appear to be very strong early. I wonder if it's as strong today, I don't.
Think it is. He didn't say that, so I want to make that clear. I did talk to him about the Jets, the experience. I do have a lot on the Jets in the book. Of course, that's at the end of the book. And I think that when they met that five hour meeting, when the Jets sent that delegation out to Malibu to try to convince him to force the trade to New York, he spent most of his time with Salah in that meeting. Everybody else is sort of hanging out on the backyard deck overlooking the
Pacific Ocean. But so I think he still has a good He always had a good relationship with Sala I still think it's strong. But they all know they're getting fired if they don't make the playoffs this year. And I think Aaron certainly has to question this guy's ability as a head coach. I think he's a great guy, and I think he is a guy if I were an owner of an NFL team, I would want to employ him. But as a defensive coordinator, he has not proven that he can be a good head coach. He
hasn't done it. So Aaron knows that. So I think he still likes him, still has maybe some belief in him, not as much as when he signed on, But yeah, this is this book has a lot of Jet material in it, particularly how to play Unfolded where he got hurt. It shouldn't have happened. I explain why he talks in Deep Tale about that play. Wow ways that listen. Garrett Wilson was open and so obviously the cut block technique.
I think the Athletic had a story about how Aaron Is never liked cut blocking, and I talked to him about that. And Dwayne Brown missed the cup block on Leonard Floyd. That creates an opportunity. And it really was an amazing night being in the building. I've never experienced a more charged regular season crowd, not just for the Jets, in my almost forty years of covering sports in New York, any team. I mean that night, that crowd was unbelievable. And to see it taken away four snaps in like that,
it was hard. It was hard to take. I was getting text messages from friends, I feel terrible, your book is dead and I didn't care about my book. I felt heartsick for the fans and for him to be there.
In that point. Yeah, yeah, I remember the next day after that, I went on the air and people knew I was critical of Aaron, and I had several reach out to me. And because I went on the air and I said, I feel so bad for Aaron Rodgers, I felt sick to my stomach. A I'd never root against the player, root for a player getting hurt. But I think Aaron has been a content machine for what I do, and I do appreciate that. And you know, he made some points on the vaccines that he may
be right. You know, I tended to get in line with the government. Maybe I was wrong and gullible. I don't know, but the book is coming out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could be wrong. Yeah yeah.
I was open minded and I told him I have zero agenda with this book. I have no agenda whatsoever. I didn't have any real negative thoughts when you arrived in New York about you. And it's funny because I had more trouble convincing people that that. They assumed I was a liberal media guy with an agenda, and I think after over time they realized I wasn't and I
was just trying to document a significant American life. But I had more trouble convincing people to talk did with my Belichick book, and that's that was a surprising part of it. How many people were afraid to talk about Aaron Rodgers. And I think I won that battle over time, but it was a battle to get there and so but but yeah, it was Listen. I have a good feeling about this Jets team, and I know you've been a critic. I think you've been fair on Rodgers. Your
criticism to me is fair game. I would like to look at the all time list, and I think you have him a little lower than I have him. I have him fifth. And the way I try to do it is very subjective, of course, but try to make it more objective. And my formula is to take regular season MVPs plus Super Bowl MVPs. So it's a team sport. But if you are the best player in the league, and then how many times are you the best player in the biggest game in American sports, put the two
together and come up with a number. And that's that's why I have Aaron Rodgers in my top five. I had him fifth, but I think obviously Mark Schleare said he belongs at the kids table when it comes to it at a gathering of all time quarterbacks, I think he's the last seed at the main table. But I think he belongs at the main table. Yeah.
I've always put him in the Merino class, where I think he and Marino throw the prettiest ball. I want more. I'm left hungry after their football careers, but it's indisputable that they're iconic, They're brilliant. I'm more critical, although I don't talk of him with Marino because I think Marino had the first or second bet coach for his entire career and Aaron didn't. Also, Dan Marino had an owner and that helps in free agency. Aaron Rodgers didn't. So
I think at some point I will go down. I will probably have him closer to eight or nine Marino. In that same thing. Lway won the big games, Marino didn't win as many, but I think we both believe he's an all time talent. I've always had him ahead of Farv, but I do think I do think he needs to. Far have had a very, a really remarkable year, thirty three touchdown, seven picks that first year in Minnesota.
Then he got injured that was. I mean that, in my opinion, that was one of the great years by an aging quarterback ever, maybe the greatest year by an aging quarterback. If Aaron sputters here this year after last year and kind of a weak year in Green Bay at the end, I don't think it's not you know, we forgot Jordan was so good. We forget about Washington. I mean, it's like footage has disappeared. I do think Aaron needs to be we have to see some magic.
It's a nice way. It's icing on a very good cake. And I you know, I kind of project their an eight nine win team. I don't see twelve thirteen. But I don't blame Aaron. I think I think the coaching and the coordinating leaves a little to be desired. I want to move to Bill Belichick because you've also done the Belichick book, and Aaron and Belichick have one thing in common.
I think.
Both at the end of their careers, made a decision in the last seven or eight years, maybe five or six years Belichick shared with urban Meyer. There's just certain guys I want to coach, and I'm not going to coach guys I don't want to coach well that's the opposite of sacrifice for the team that Bill wanted to be more comfortable. He relied on assistancy, knew even if they failed elsewhere, Aaron, there was a certain language that Bill was comfortable with, and he kept hiring his language
back and was comfortable with only certain players. Winning isn't comfortable. It's uncomfortable Aaron has gotten. I think a disservice at offensive coordinator with Nat Hackett, Alan Lazard, Randall Cobb. It is and I want to instead of addressing that with Aaron, I want to address it with Bill. Do you think Belichick reporting recently by ESPN that Tom Pelasarrow I think said recently rich Eisens show he is interested in getting
back into coaching next year. Do you think the market Is it a dynamic market or is it a two to three team market because age scares people. Brady had no market when he left New England. It was like the Chargers and the Box. Kirk Cousins didn't have much of a market for a very good career. Do you think Belichick last year no market will have much of a market.
I actually think you're onto something there about it being a two or three team market. But I think the interest from those two or three teams could be intense. So I remember Brady said of the team he didn't name, you're keeping that guy instead of signing. Then there was speculation, well, who was that guy and what was that team? But I felt that way about Belichick in this last cycle. You're hiring that guy or keeping that guy, and not high Bill Belichick. But I do think just look at
the NFC East. Could you imagine Jerry Jones hiring Belichick. Yeah. Now, Belichick working with Jones, I know they have a good relationship, but Parcells told me that it was a problem when he was there. He liked Jerry Jones, didn't have a major problem in them overall. But after games, Jerry Jones
holds a press conference right outside the locker room. I've been in five, six or seven of them, and the coaches down the hall in the interview room, and those messages could conflict, and Parcells said that was tough to deal with. Imagine Belichick down the hall saying nothing and Jerry's saying everything outside the locker room. Now, maybe Bill can convince him not to do that anymore, but Jerry's been doing that for a long time, and he puts on a show. He'll talk about anything after a game.
So that'll be interesting to watch that marriage if it happens. But the Giants, and if the Giants are I don't know, six and eleven again this year, Dable's in trouble and the Marath family loves the Parcels, Belichick, Tree, and Bill will be sitting there. And at the end of the day, I've always felt this that deep in a place he won't admits exists, Bill's a giant. That's the one building he walked into. He saw the NFL films where he got emotional right, so to end his career if he could.
The only reason he didn't get the job after Parcels stepped down. Now Bill had already left for Cleveland. He left because he knew that George Young the GM hated him and was never going to hire him as head coach. So George Young now in the Hall of Fame and rightfully so, one of the best football men I've ever met, But he hated Belichick. So to go back and have that be his final job and to try to win a championship in New York, Yeah, that would be something.
And I think that's a possibility, and I don't think the Giants are gonna be very good this year, so the Eagles, of course also possibly in place. So if you're an He's head coach, beware because I think I don't think Bill wants to go west. I think he wants to stay near home, and I think the Northeast is that's who he is, and so I suspect there will be a lot of interest from two or three teams and he'll get a job. Yeah.
The other one I would throw out is Buffalo. Although Sean mcdermot's done a good job, there is a sense as the asc AFC just keeps getting better that Buffalo is kind of leaving, leaving some things on the on the floor. I don't think here's why I'll throw that one out. I think Bill holds grudges and to be able to crush Robert Kraft twice a year and go back to Foxborough, I think it's something Ian. It's a little, but it feels like something.
It'll give you a better one than that the Jets if they missed the playoffs, everybody gets fired, right, But what if Aaron Rodgers makes fourteen starts, gets hurt in the middle of the season, and Tyrod Taylor takes the other three starts, plays a fairly high level of football, better than his final year in Green Bay, not as good as the MVP years, and Woody Johnson, who loves star quarterbacks and loves Aaron, decides, I'm firing everybody, but
I want Aaron to come back. And I'll throw the kitchen sink at Belichick and say, you walked out on us on this before I became owner, after twenty four hours as head coach, and you dominated us for the better part of two decades. Why not finish your career here with a quarterback who's a bat as close to an aging Tom Brady as you can find, and a guy you can work with. I mean, I think that's a long shot, but I wouldn't completely rule that out.
So it's twenty twenty four, and let's talk about something really, really important. If you're ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan's America's largest injury law firm, and they're there for you. Over one hundred offices nation. Think about that, more than a thousand lawyers with over twenty billion that's a b twenty billion dollars recovered for over five hundred thousand clients. Things happen in life unexpectedly. Submitting an injury claim with
Morgan and Morgan is really really easy. Like winning in the NFL is hard. We know that quarterbacking in the NFL is hard, submitting a claim is easy. You're ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to for thepeople dot com, slash colin or dial pound law from your cell phone.
Pretty easy. That's for the people dot com, slash colin or pound law pound five to nine from your cell Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for you to get a full and fair compensation if there's an unexpected accident in your life. This is a paid advertisement. When you attack these books, you make really good choices, and there's a lot of people do this. The Belichick book, the Derek Jeter book, the Aaron Rodgers book.
While you're a columnist, while you're doing other work, a great dad, husband, you're you're a busy guy. Right when you finished the Aaron book, what's the feeling of two to three years of a mile deep? What's the feeling? Are you just how do you.
Think I sort of feel that these books take a few years off the end of your life. I hope that, but it does feel that way. And but then when you have like that first copy in your hands, Yeah, that is a pretty glorious feeling, I have to admit. And it is the hardest thing I've ever attempted to do in this business, and one of the maybe the second hardest, was filling in for you. Seriously. I mean this. I'm not just saying this because I'm on with you, but I've told my wife this, and she's a fan
of yours and other people. So I don't know, maybe ten times eleven times I did your show when you were at ESPN when you're on vacation, and to sit there on national radio and national TV and basically do a three hour show by yourself where you're debating yourself and trying to create conversation with yourself as you did so expertly, that might be the second hardest thing for a time, because I don't have your personality or your
skill for it. And so that was a fight, and it was it was just to try to reach a respectable level. And I felt like I owed that to you because they were putting me in your chair, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. That is that might be the second hardest thing I've ever attempted in this business. And that's a credit to you, because you're the best at it.
Well. I always appreciate that. I want to talk about I'm not a big believer. I think choices is another word for fate. I'm pretty agnostic, though most of my friends are very religious. I fear more toward the spirituality. I think I don't believe in too many coincidences. Right now, New York as the as the Yankee sort of spiral. New York has had a bad mostly decade in sports,
and I was thinking about this the other day. I thought Jalen Brunson taking less one hundred and fifteen million dollars less for the next was one of the savvyest moves. And I know he'll get pushed back because the term get the bag now is just synonymous with like NBA stars. Is Brunson the most loved athlete in the last fifteen years in New York since Ewing or since Jeter?
I think Eli's in there. I think Eli winning the two Super Bowls, but he's close and Brunton, if he just gets one, it's going to explode. But what's amazing is and he'll he'll make up that money maybe in the next contract. And I think he's eligible in twenty twenty eight when he can get over three hundred millions. So but he's smart. We go how smart this guy is. He looks around and says, well, nobody in New York's won a championship in forever, and the Knicks happened once.
It's nineteen seventy three. So somebody's going to be the guy who does it. And the guy who does it, if it's me, that's going to be worth a lot more than one hundred and thirteen million dollars in my lifetime. He's going to be lionized forever. And he was smart enough to figure it out. And so if you look at New York Sports right now, and we've talked about this, I think on other shows where New York sort of lost its advantage over other markets because you can be
a global superstar in Oklahoma City wherever. The world is so small now, so New York's lost that edge. But the one edge New York has is if you look at the Mets have one since eighty six. The Jets haven't won since January sixty nine. The Knicks have won since nineteen seventy three, The Mets haven one since eighty six, the Yankees to them since two thousand and nine. That's a drought. So if you come to New York and
end the drought, you are lionized forever. And it's the payoff there is worth far more than one hundred and thirteen million dollars, particularly when Brunton will get that back in the next contract. He was smart enough to figure out, now's the time I have to help the Knicks forminate a championship roster because I'm going to lead that roster and if we win it all that is going to be something that you can't buy. And doing that in New York after more than fifty years for the Knicks,
what is that going to mean to him? Mark Messier won five Cups in Edmonton. He ended a fifty four year drought in New York and that's the only cup anyone ever talks about. Is winning number six is the one he one and the drought for the Rangers, and he'll tell you that that they talk more about that than the other five combined, and he can't buy a meal in New York, of course, for the rest of his life. So yeah, Brunson is smart enough, he's figured
it out. I'm making killer money, multi generational money anyway, so let me try to do what I can to be the guy who ends the drought. So then my legacy goes to a stratosphere I can't even imagine. So I think he's made the right play.
Here for the audience listening that doesn't know the hierarchy of the Knicks. They may know James Dolan, who I think was side pracked with the Sphere for two years, which allowed the front office to control basketball as Dolan stepped away. He has a musical background and it was
actually an advantage. Now the Sphere's done, the Sphear's done, he's back to talking about how much he loves Julius Randall, which is problematic because I don't think he fits with what they Once Hartenstein left, they lost size at true center. Randall small. I don't think he fits this small lineup, which often goes four guards. It'll be now three guards. McHale bridges. So I don't think Randall fits. I think
he's productive. I don't think he's a good fit. And here comes James Dolan, done with his Vegas project, to talk basketball and how much he loves Julius Randall. But over the last two years, the Knicks have arguably gone from the most disfunctional organization ownership group to a highly functional maybe not Miami or Golden State, but a highly functional operation. Who do we give credit to? In the suite upstairs?
Leon Rose is very simple and listen. He hasn't talked to the media in I don't know more than two years. It's New York City. I don't know how Adam Silver and New Yorker lets him get away with that. I wrote a column that was very critical of him a couple of years ago. The Knicks went crazy for this column. And because he hasn't talked to the beat writers and the media at large in New York City, it has to be more than two years now, not one word. So now Knicks fans don't care because the guy knows
what he's doing. And I'll admit that, I'm not afraid to say he's done a great job. Early on, he struggled. He made some moves that Tibbs didn't like he got a couple guys in that like Cam Reddish that Tibbs didn't want and fourty A and Kemba Walker, guys that Tibbs didn't want. And but man, it's one home run now after another, and I have to give a man
credit for doing it, and so I will. And now his roster is one that Could they go to the NBA finals next year after getting Bridges, Yeah, I think they can because it's so hard to repeat now in the NBA. And look look at Denver this year. They couldn't get through even to the finals. And after they won last year, we thought they might win three of the next four. And I guess they still might. Boston, it's going to be tough to do it again. They're coming back with the same team. Are they better than
the next air roster? Yes, but it's just so hard to get back that I think there's an opportunity there for the next to get through and challenge somebody in the West. I think Bridges was the right move. You're right about Randall, but you know what, he's a twenty four and ten guy and I think he has value
around the league. If they don't move him, what they could use is a center who could shoot from the outside, just to open up lanes for Brunson and hart and Dee Vincenzo and Bridges, and just to space the defense out some they don't they didn't have last year with Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson a center who could do that. So if they can move Randall into packs now they had to send so many assets out to get Bridges.
But if for a I don't know, does Minnesota decide that Karl Anthony Towns and Edwards and Gobertt's that doesn't quite fit. We need to add a different piece to win it all. Maybe I know that Cat. I know that Timms is willing to coach Cat again even though they they had problems in Minnesota. I know that for a fact. And I also know as a New Jersey kid, he does have Towns does have some interest in playing for the Knicks at some point. So, but it would
be something like that maybe I could see happening. But I do think Randall has value around the league.
Yeah, and when he was in Los Angeles, you know, he's one of those players where the league, the culture and the style of the league changed and Dwight Howard fell off a Cliff Randal didn't. But he's not aligned with current basketball. He's not going to shoot from the perimeter. He's kind of an old school bully ball, physical player, relentlessly hard player, intense. It doesn't look it's not aesthetically pretty,
it's not the current game. But he's productive and there is you know, sometimes he has struggled in the playoffs, but there is value. I in dropping twenty four and eight a night in the regular season, which is such a treadmill. Which is I mean, it's a long hike and a dark, windy road, and I think he provides
for a lot of teams stability and production. But I got to tell you, as somebody who started watching the NBA in the early seventies, I find the Knicks have the and this is hard for a big market team. I find them incredibly likable. The Villanova thing is God, they're likable. I can't think of the last I mean, I didn't necessarily love the Giants. The Yankees were fun, but again, out spending everybody, this Knicks team feels like one of the more huggable in New York history.
No question, Colin and you look at Brunson, is the biggest reason why because he's the guy again, as when he arrived, I wasn't sure and many people weren't sure if he was good enough to be the second best player in the championship team. I think he's proven he could be the best player on the YESEA yeah, right, with the right pieces around him. But now taking less money sort of a lah Tom Brady and trying to help the roster and trying the championship and just saying
all the right things. I mean, he would fit in with the Red Holtzman Nicks in nineteen seventy and seventy three, and he fits in today perfectly. And he was a coach's son, a point guard son, and you could just see he's got so much savvy on the floor. His footwork is unbelievable. I think he's got the best footwork for a guard I've ever seen, particularly in the paint. And he's not athletic. You look at his body, he doesn't look like an NBA player, so it doesn't look
like an NBA superstar, and yet he is. And it's like every night. I remember his first year in New York. Tim Bontems and ESPN used to make fun of me because I was working at the New York Post as a columnist, and every time I went to a Knicks game, I wrote a column about Jalen Brunson. And are you ever going to write about somebody else? And I said, no, Tim, because I've been around a lot longer than you, and I see what's happening here. In year one, you could
see it. It was a perfect marriage between market and athlete, and it was only going to get better. And that's exactly what's happened.
Yeah. Ian O'Connor upcoming book, Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers, comes out next month. How long officially did it take to write that book beginning.
To end the actual writing process? Probably five months. Of course, there's a lot of reporting that goes into it, and I like for these books, particularly unauthorized books, where the subject is giving you very little, if anything at all, You're interviewing hundreds of people. So listen, it wasn't as long as Belichick. Aaron Rodgers hasn't been on the planet as long as Belichick. Belichick was the I think I
want to say that was a full three years. This was more like a year and a half and I would say the average for me is probably two years. I did want this book to come out when Aaron was still playing, and so a lot of people thought I was dead in the water when he got hurt last year. Well, the book's coming out this year. I don't want to say the injury it was an awful thing to witness, but in some ways I think it
might have helped the book. Most people assumed it killed it because last year is now this year, and they have to get in the playoffs. He has to have a big year or this whole thing is getting blown up. So I actually think that might add some intrigue to the story that I've told here as the season unfolds.
Also, they got a little bit of a break from the schedule maker, a lot of night games, a lot of standalone games. They opened with Stan Francisco, So, as you know with book sales, the more he's in the news, the more controversy, the more people are fascinated. They're going to be on TV all of September and early October, and if they win, which I suppose they'll do outside of the Niners opener, that'll help. I mean, the best thing for your book is a six game Aaron Rodgers winning streak.
Yeah, right, And the worst thing Colin is, of course, and God forbid he gets hurt on opening night again. And I'm like, when I saw that schedule, I said to myself to the NFL, are you trying to get him hurt on opening night again against San Francisco on the road?
Did it happen with a new offensive line?
Exactly so? And listen, it's interesting because they didn't draft him number one in two thousand and five, and they should have. And that's that was his childhood team. He loved Joe Montana and Steve Young, and he wanted to be the quarterback of the San Francisco forty nine ers. He can't beat them in the playoffs, right, He's lost to Kaepernick and Garoppolo in the playoffs, and he struggled against them in the postseason. He's had some success against
San Francisco in the regular season. So, but that is a tough opening night for him, brutal a year after he got hurt on opening night after four snaps or so. I didn't love that first game. But if you look at their schedule, could you see an avenue for them to go eleven and six, ten and seven, I would say that, yes, that's possible. I have a good feeling about it. Usually when I write books about people, they
have very successful seasons when the book is out. So for the sake of Jets fans who are very fatalistic as I mentioned, and have been waiting, right, I always say that the Jets have not appeared in a Super Bowl since Neil Armstrong stepped on the move, so it's time. It's time for magic to happen. I think it would be a great story. I'm selfish in terms of wanting that for my book, but that aside, I do want to see that. I've never covered a Jets Super Bowl.
I'd love to be able to do that, and I'd love to see Jets fans get that payoff.
Ian O'Connor, my friend, it's always great to see you. Know how much I respect you and enjoy this stuff. And you don't have much of a stummer left, but what you do before you start digging into camps a couple of the Giants and the Jets. I wish it well, and.
Really I met what I said before, and you know what I feel about you and your work, So thank you very much.
Calm. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review