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ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go for thepeople dot com slash Colin or dial pound law. That's pound five to nine from your cell phone. That's for the people dot com slash Colin or pound Law five to nine from your cell. This is a paid advertisement. Hi, everybody, We're gonna do about thirty minutes today, twenty five thirty minutes on Jim Harbaugh, Michigan. I'm going to bring a
guest on in about ten minutes, ten minutes. Dan Morgan is a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan. You know this is a guy that knows nil. We'll be able to sort of put his arms around for all of us. The Michigan situation. Harbaugh, Michigan, ncaa big ten compliance penalties going forward. But I wanted to start about this years and years ago. It was about probably fifteen years ago. It could have been a little bit longer. Fifteen eighteen
years ago. I went to a couple of the big shots at ESPN and I said, if I was you, I would buy the UFC. And ESPN had a lot of East Coast people, a lot of Baseball seam heads in management that just you know, lived for the Yankees and Red Sox, that thought that was much bigger than the NFL anything else. And I said, I know it's not for you guys, and from here it's Vegas, La. But UFC is exploding, and they just didn't have They
just didn't have the stomach for it. And I'm like, trust me, it's celebrities, it's high end, it's middle class, it's all classes.
It's great.
You've got You've really got to. At the time, you could have purchased UFC, you know, pennies on the dollar. It eventually sold for six billion dollars. I've talked about before. I've tried to twice buy into the MLS. I back when it was thirty five million dollars a team, and it was eighty five million dollars a team. Now it's half a billion dollars a team. MLS teams will be worth a billion dollars within five years. So my dad invested in the stock market. I've been in it since
nineteen eighty nine. I like investing in stuff I've missed. I've hit, like anybody that's invested. But you know, I was thinking about this today and many of you have a four oh one k you've got a business. I think I really enjoy, you know, play in the stock market, and I have for a long time.
And I was thinking if if.
Sports were a stock With this Jim Harbaughs story, you think to yourself.
Ooh, the Big Ten.
Oh, I don't know if this is good for the conference. The singular stock I would buy in sports in North America today is college football, and specifically the Big Ten.
I'll tell you why.
So Michigan Penn State got twice the audience, just just inches shy of twice the audience of the SEC game with Georgia this past week. And this is going to continue going forward, not because Harbaugh's controversial. So one of the things that Fox did this weekend and it's really going to be the trend going forward. It's going to be the most popular conference of all time. Is that
the Big Ten. By adding the West coast Seattle, Eugene, Los Angeles markets to the midwest Chicago, you know, Columbus, Ohio and Arbor Detroit markets, you already have the East coast markets with Penn State, Philadelphia market, Rutgers, the New York New Jersey market. You not only have three time zones represented, but the three biggest cities in those time zones, LA Chicago, home of Northwestern and the Big Ten offices. And you know, Rutgers may not be a power, but
you know it's the New York New Jersey market. That's much more attractive to advertisers than an Alabama Auburn audience. The biggest money in this country is north It's in Seattle, Chicago, Boston, New York, Philadelphia. So advertisers are going to love this new conference. The biggest cities are now in each time zone represented New York, Chicago, LA, not to mention, you know, Detroit, Philadelphia. So but by having three time zones and foxit it
this weekend, it lets you stager games. So at nine Pacific, where I live, you could have the East Coast game. You could have Penn State hosting Oregon, pretty good game. In the next time zone you could have Michigan hosting UCLA, and then late late afternoon you could have Ohio State in Seattle or in Oregon or at USC and then in the late window you could have Oregon, Washington USC UCLA hosting another big ten team back to back to back to back, multiple games that don't have to overlap
with each other. In the SEC, you only have two time zones, and overwhelmingly the conference is based in one time time zone, the Eastern time Zone, and so you're going to have all these great games that are overlapped on top of each other. So the Big Ten is going to be going forward starting next year, just game after game, week after week of high profile programs in affluent, wealthy Northern markets, biggest cities, LA Market, Chicago Market, Philly Market,
New York market. It's a huge advantage for advertisers, and it's a huge advantage for the conference.
And you know, the other thing.
Is, I mean this has always been there's always been big cities represented Michigan, Detroit, Penn State with Philadelphia, but now you're adding the Los Angeles market and the Seattle market. And the other thing that there's a big advantage here is Fox is the home of Big Ten football, the primary home.
Well.
Fox has a very football centric network, so during the course of a college football season, they're going to promote the NFL college football and a little postseason baseball. ESPN has the SEC. They have far more sports to promote. They have a larger menu of sports to promote, which can dilute the promotion. The other thing that Fox has, which is a huge advantage is Friday games. So it's Friday, three different time zones, Saturday, bigger Northern markets for advertisers.
Over the next five to six years watch the Big Ten. Value explode, profile, explode, television ratings explode. I was talking to an executive months ago about Washington, Oregon, UCLA USC added to the Big Ten, and he said, if sports were starting today, if you were creating a college football conference, you would literally create the Big Ten. You'd have like an La San Francisco, Seattle represented. In the Midwest, you'd want Chicago represented, and then in the East you want Philly, Boston,
New York. At least two of those three created. And he said, I mean, just think about this. He said, look at our presidential election, like what states will matter Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania. He said, these are the discussed states. They decide our election. He goes, if you were starting today from scratch and creating a college football conference, you would create going forward what the Big Ten is. The economies, the cities, the discussion points, all different time zones.
Listen.
I love the SEC you know, I even here out West. You know, I grew up watching Big East basketball when you had you know, Hoya paranoia. John Thompson, Louis Carniseca, Saint John's I've never been a regional guy. I'll watch the best stuff. I didn't like Pac twelve basketball as a kid. I love the Big East. I've always loved SEC football. But I have found myself thinking about the choices I will make and if you're giving me people
forget Oregon and Washington aren't just good programs. They're much closer to Ohio State than they are Iowa or Michigan State and Nebraska. Washington's had a great coach four times, Don James, they won a national title, Rick new Heisel they won Rose Bulls. Chris Peterson they made the playoffs, Kaylin de Boorr. They haven't lost in a year and a half.
Every time.
Oregon's had a great coach Mike Bolotti with Jeff Tedford, number two in the country, Mike Bolotti with Chip Kelly dominant, Chip Kelly with Mark Helfridge, National Championship Game, Dan Lanning, top five to six team in the country. So Oregon and Washington are not just you know, adding a better version of Michigan State or Iowa when they have the right coach. These are top ten programs. USC eventually a top ten program. You know, Texas Oklahoma are really really good.
Nobody would dispute that, but you could argue Texas is the most underachieving program in the country for the last fifty years. I love Texas and I certainly would in Oklahoma. Is Brett Venables the right coach. We'll see, We'll see. I think they're going to have some recruiting issues eventually in the SEC, but we'll see. But regardless of the
hardball thing, and I'm an SEC fan. Next year, if you're giving me Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan USC, followed by Penn State UCLA, I may watch parts of one SEC game. And now I am not in any way saying the SEC won't have good recruiting classes and good teams. That's not what I'm saying. Watch the profile shrink of the SEC. Just go look at the Big Ten schedule. As somebody who's not an SEC or a Big Ten fan, you're me, You've moved all over the country.
It's not close. It's not even close.
What games I'm gonna watch. I've already looked at the schedule for the Big Ten and SEC. The Big Ten schedules insane. You will not get me off Big Ten football next year. I don't say that because I work at Fox. I watched the SEC now, But it's going to change this weekend, double the rating, big ten. It is going to change. So Dan Morgan's a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan for the Record, intern for Mark Cuban while in law school. That's worth the podcast in itself.
Hell yet, but I think the one thing Dan that jumped out to me, you know, there's always been sort of this presumption of innocence, and yet they suspended Harbaugh flying to the game. It almost felt punitive retribution for embarrassing the conference, retribution for embarrassing Michigan. It felt odd to me. But is it that strange?
Is it? Do you agree with that suspension?
I personally do not agree with this bension.
I'm kind of in the same camp that you are in that he has been proven guilty before he had a chance to prove his innocence, just based on pressure from outside schools and whatnot, in coaches and presidents, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm kind of the same camp you are that this investigation hasn't.
Properly flown the way it should have.
All the information is not out yet and a decision was made. However, you know, did he do it? Did he know about what was going on? Did he direct what was going on? Those facts haven't come out yet.
What do you expect from the hearings Friday in which Harbaugh says he might speak.
So you know, it really goes on to what does you know, what does the conference bylaws say? You know, is it if anything that happens under his watch, he's responsible for no matter what, and they have the evidence. You know, I could see a judge just saying, you know, we're talking about football here. I got a whole dock at full of civil stuff that's got to get addressed
and kick the can, just deny and to move on. Now, if there is an actual breach of contract or if you know, the conference did kind of come to a decision without following their rule book or their discretionary stuff, then a judge, Mike come in and say, no, you didn't play by the rules, this is a breach of contract and allow them to play. You know, my gut is that the civil justice system is going to get
too involved here in football suspensions. But we have seen in the past where these conferences and n c DOUBLEA in general kind of think they are the end all, be all rule rule maker and you know, we've successfully have suited n C Double A in the past and have had decisions that they've made overturned.
What is due process for Harbaugh?
So I think it really comes down, you know, to a full on investigation of what of what took place, what, what did he know?
What did that information lead to?
You know, was it a rogue operator that had you know, non employees that were going out in filming six filming signals and he had no idea what was going on. I mean, I think it's tough to put him, uh, you know, to be the person to punish for that.
Now.
I know we have all these different scenarios where they say it's a lack of institutional corp of control.
He's the head coach.
But I mean eventually you got to say where where does the line stop and start? But you know, as far as uh as as what what you know he he could be facing. I mean, I think that the university has taken a position that they're going to pack him completely and they're going to kind of just take it on the head from the conference and eventually the n C Double A.
Could Jim Harbaughs sue Big ten Football or Big ten conference.
I think he I mean, well, this is America, and you know, I'm I'm a lawyer, but anyone can sue anyone in America. Unfortunately, it's just kind of the fact that it is so, Yeah, I could could have lawsuits.
Stem from this. Yes, does he have claims to reputable harm?
I think that's what, you know, kind of main thing he was saying is the center calls repebable harm not only to the university if he doesn't coach, or you know, if they don't win a national championship or lose to whoever they lose to along the way because him not coaching, what does that quantify to monetarily? But in his kind of thing too is you're label me as, you know, a cheater, as someone that's spying on teams and using information that's gonna then hurt, you know, my chances of
making money down the road. You know, I think if Jim Harborough is still in Michigan next year, he's obviously going to be making the same amount of money. If he's not in Michigan, he's probably making more money somewhere else. So you know, the monetary damages might be tough for him to draw towards from a compensation base. But as far as hey, you guys are defaming me. You said I'm a cheater. I'm not a cheater. Yeah, there could be a legitimate claim there.
If you represented the University of Michigan, knowing that Harbaugh can bail if the action, if the punishment is highly severe, it's a weird space for Michigan. Would you caution the university to step gingerly? They are right now in complete, utter, absolute support of Harball, but all of a sudden he loses to Maryland in Ohio State, they get word from the NC DOUBLEA that it's going to be more severe,
vacating wins, multiple year long suspension. How do you if you represented Michigan, wouldn't you be a little concerned if Jim just, I mean, he didn't have to be truthful exactly, he could, right, he doesn't. What's he held to if he's got a job in Chicago with the Bears, what does he care exactly? You're representing Michigan, your thoughts on that?
Yeah, So Michigan is definitely in kind of a tough spot because I want him that they're trying to protect
their national championship, potential. They're trying to protect their their their wins they've already had, and they're also trying to protect making sure that if everything does go to plan, they can keep Jim Harborough as their head coach, because I think if Michigan was joined in with you know, the Big Ten right now and saying we agree with the suspension, it'd be a lot easier to see Jim Harborough in Chicago next year, you know, or Vegas or
Tampa or whatever else that needs a good offensive mind a head coach. So they're kind of in a position where they want to support and they want to make sure that he knows your support, and I think to
kind of keep him on the Michigan path. But yeah, I definitely think that they run some risk too of if this investigation leads where it kind of looks like it's leading, which is if the NCAA finds in concert with the Big Ten and wins are vacated and you know, bowl games are suspended and playoff breaches in the future are had to be missed, and the Michigan's going to at least twice.
You're very interested in the NIL. The business of college football is changing now. I think it's going to grow. The big ten now has La Market, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Detroit. It's got the biggest markets in each of the three biggest time zones. But the NIL, the money is going to just keep pouring in. The TV money now players are being compensated. What do you think the NIL looks like in five years?
Ten years?
Look like just slight variations of what we have now.
I worry about.
Paying high school players. That just feels dirty to me. What do you think the NIL looks like in five years?
So I mean the I mean the NIL.
I think it's gonna look a lot more of the same, hopefully more rules and regulations and there's not more guessing on what can be done and what can be done. But I think what you're seeing shape up right now as far as far as these collectives go, I think it's gonna be a lot more of those in the future of Hey, let's bundle all our boosters together and pay kids, you know that way, instead of trying to go out with these these one off deals from you know, a power aid or a big time car dealer in
that in that one area to pay the player. You know, we've we've seen that more and Morgan we do deals of all sizes with an IL, So we've done deals with low level softball players, and we've done deals with you know, lottery picks and basketball and you know, top
five picks in the NFL draft. So we've kind of seen how it all shapes out, and you know, a lot of what drives that are the agents, and the agents are kind of coming in tune to it too because they know they want to have players that get deals and that's what's going to sign them at an early time. But right now in Michigan, for instance, you know, they're selling a Michigan versus Everybody shirts. All proceeds are going to NIL players. This is going on with Jim Harborough.
So all the fan base, you know, ten million fans are now galwan eyed to buy these shirts. Hundreds of thousand dollars are pouring in and those are being distributed directly to the players, you know, so they're obviously winning
when that's happened. So anytime you can have an opportunity to get the money to the players, to the actual students in a clean, legitimate way, I think that's what's going to kind of favor because you know, we see it with an offensive guard isn't going to get the same looks at the quarterback gets.
At Kentucky now, we try.
To do a good deal of spreading the wealth out along as far as the players go. And you know Kentucky basketball, we do a whole team deal where the walk on gets paid as much as the lottery picks. So there is some of that that goes on in in the sport. But I think in the future it's to be more money, more dollars, and it's super competitive.
I think you're going to see coaches like Jim Harborough and you know Nick Saban that don't want to compete in that type of environment where they might say, hey, you know I had my run, we did my we we did the whole school way. Now NFL or you know, Saving will probably keep doing it, and il because he has one of the biggest Mercedes Dealers ships in the country. But as far as doing it with the players, I think you're gonna have a new style of coach, a
new style of system. It's gonna be a heavily collective basis, and you're going to see these one off deals where you know, the right, players will will be making sept seven.
Figures every year.
And I know you said it kind of seems dirty in high school, but I think that's definitely the path that's had it where you're going to see a you know, a feenom basketball player. You know, we see it now with overtime the leading elsewhere. These kids are getting half half a million bucks at fourteen fifteen years old.
Finally, let's pivot back to Michigan. What do you think transpires and how long will it take?
So? I think, you know what, what I would like to see happened. I would like to.
See miss and be able to finish the season off cleanly, whatever happens happened, and then let the penalties reigned down after they get stripped, after they win, you know, let let that ball you know, land where it lands, and then figure.
Out what do I think happens?
Though, I think that on Friday that Harbor will give a Galvanizen speech. He'll make his points, but a judge is probably gonna not make too many decisions. It's going to let you know, the conference make their decisions. If he wants to bring another suit later, that might happen, But I think that you know, most likely he doesn't finish coaching the regular season with Michigan.
We'll see what happens in Ohio State game.
Obviously that a lot of implications for the national title on that. But I think the NC DOUAA might come in before the playoffs and make their decision too. I know they said they were going to have a decision by the end of the fall. So the National Championship, you know, that happens next year. So I mean I
could see a decision being made. I could see him potentially, you know, if they're going to hold the coaches responsible no matter what, even if he had no idea, gave no direction, it couldn't bat for drym Harboro.
But I'm I'm hoping it doesn't. And I'm a Gator fan in that. So.
Dan Morgan, managing partner Morgan and Morgan.
Thanks Dan, Thank you, appreciate you guys having me on
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