Move to Earn

is to is to attract new users. And there is that kind of you know, there is I hesitate to use the word, but there is that kind of Ponzi scheme element to it, because you know, in order to in order to keep the users that they have engaged and in order to keep being able to reward them for the activity that they're doing, they need to attract new users into you know, into the ecosystem, new users using the app, buying n f T trainers or you know,

minting and spending sweat coins and all this sort of stuff. So you know, there is that there is that difficulty. Welcome everyone to the coin Bureau Podcast. My name is Mad Mike notewait my keep it in some keep it in, and my name is Guy. Well you can you can tell it's been a few weeks, can't you. Yeah, sure, why not, Let's let's keep it like that. My name is mad Mike Mooch and his name is Guy. Welcome

to the Coin Bureau podcast. Um, it's been a few weeks since since we last got together, but here we are. So I thought we'd talk about We talked about a little crypto niche one that I think is a very interesting one to to look at. It could well be one to look out for in the future. So, Mike are you Are you basically ready to talk about move to earn? Sure, let's do this. This is something I'm not a hundre cent familiar with. But there was something similar.

I downloaded an app where you would you'd have to do I think it was during the pandemic. It might have been just before the pandemic, where you had to move, you had to walk and if you walked or step coin or something like that coin steps or something like that, sweat sweat coin, sweat coin that was it? Is this the same thing that's one of the projects we're talking about today. Yeah, we'll see again. I'm a pioneer and I didn't even know it. I'm like, uh, is there

some pioneer who discovered something didn't know Columbus. He was trying to find India and found America or or the Caribbean at Yeah. Um, I'm like less less genocide. Um yeah he uh yeah. So I was on this ages ago um, and I tried to attach my phone to my dog so that it would be constantly moving. But he is quite a small dog and I had quite a big phone. Um. And it seemed like quite a

lot of effort. It was quite good. Um. I don't think I earned anything or claimed anything from it, but I quite like the premise of it, which was move your fat ass and if you move enough, you will you will get rewarded with some tokens or some some sort of thing I didn't realize as crypto. Thank you very much everyone for listening to the Coin Bureau podcast. That is that was moved to earn next week. That was a beautiful, a beautiful summation of the entire move

to earn genre. Yeah, get off your fat ass and start moving around. No, don't attach it to the dog. Don't try that. That's that's interesting. I was. I was reading up on on some of these projects, and like, there are crypto projects, you know, doing this sort of thing. And you know, putting in certain safeguards so as people can't literally attach them to their dogs. And I remember when I was reading about that, I was like, surely

no one would do that, would they would? I mean, look, there's a whole there's a whole um niche of people out there whose main objective is just to cheat the system. Now I'm very very loosely involved in that, but because I'm also lazy, but I know some friends who will will expend serious amounts of energy and time just to to to screw over some sort of offer and get the most out of it. You see these people, like these coupon collectors in America who and they're making big

bucks by doing this. They scour and collect coupons and some of the coupon deals. It's not like in England where it's like you can only use this coupon not in conjunction with other offers. In America they don't seem to have that. And it's kind of like if you get enough for these coupons, you're basically getting products for free.

And there's these um normally housewives or but you know, anyone can be a coupon collector who dedicate their time, go to websites about it, trading coupons, all sorts of stuff, and I'm making not making millions, but saving big, big bucks. And they've got you know, warehouses full of just you know, washing detergent and different cereals. They're like preppers, but just and it's it's that, it's that bit in your brain where you you know, it's it's it's a game. Okay, cool,

I've got to beat the system. I've got to get the coupon. I'll click the points. We've got to click, you know, complete the loyalty card stamp and and you know, and and and get my free tide pods or whatever it is. Yeah, it's it's an interesting parallel to draw actually between between that and games, because I think that's a big I think that's a big part of it. Um. I remember seeing you know, Charlie Brooker over and back

in back in the UK. I remember he did a run down of some of you know, the greatest games in history or something like that, and like he covered the more you know, Zelder and Mario and Gold nine, all these sorts of things, and then like for number one he had I think it was Twitter and it was like what, and then he sort of explained it, like all the kind of gamification kind of metrics that it uses, and like you know, Instagram uses and things like this, you know, the sort of loot boxes thing

and the dopamine hits and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, actually, yeah, if you if you can add these kind of gamification elements, you can really you can really suck people in. You know, they really get they really get involved with it more. I introduced a loyalty card at the comedy club I run, and we see people who you know that they come down and then they're almost more excited to get the stamp than they are toist see the show. And that's not an

indication of the level of the show. That's just how how they are keen to to to sort of you know, complete the stamps and and and win that that little game in their head. And I do it as well. I I m I started a subscription PREP subscription, which I believe they've also got in America. Uh, and you know, you get five coffees a day. And because of that, I went to PREP four times at least a day

in order to get that. I was just like you know what, I'm going to get another free coffee because I want to make sure they're earning as little from me as possible. I mean, admittedly, when I'd go in there, I'd buy two sandwiches and a chocolate bar and completely was unaware that I'm the one who's been exploited, not them. But that's it's just that psychological game that that you're playing. And I suppose this is probably what the sweat cooin

thing is, but I don't understand. I mean, I know you've sent me the notes and obviously haven't read any of them, and I don't want to derail this too much more than usual. But how does sweat coin make money? What? What is the purpose in it? Is it a government incentive to stop us being fat? Is it? Is it they're tracking our data and finding out where we are going? And is that where they're making their money? Are they just making sure we're out the house? And are they

robbing us while they're away? How does it make money? Why are they paying us to move? I think, and I think in large part it's it's about advertising, because you know they've created this platform whereby you know that they have a lot of they you know, it's about getting people engaged. And again it's the gamification aspect of it that I think keeps a lot of people coming back. And therefore, you build a you know, you build a

platform and you build a community around that platform. And then the I mean, you've you've used sweat coins, so you'll you'll know that there's kind of a you know, sort of in in in app marketplace where you can trade these sweat coins for like you know, it mostly seems to be earbuds and things like that, but you know,

that's I think. I think the big draw there is is people is eyeball is eyeballs basically, and you know, therefore you can you can build this kind of marketplace, you can advertise within that marketplace and all that sort of stuff, and that I think is is how they make you know, a lot of their money fair enough, fair enough. Well, when you say it like that, that makes complete sense. Maybe they aren't robbing people while they're out. Maybe they are, but who knows, who knows? Your your

explanation makes a bit more sense. Okay, well that's good. I mean, I do my best, but no, it's an interesting it's an interesting thing, you know, it's it's interesting the way these projects work, and obviously crypto puts a

different kind of money making angle on it as well. Um. But yeah, I mean, well, I'm glad you're sort of I'm glad you're kind of familiar with sweat coin because it's, yeah, it's it's one of the ones that we're it's one of the ones that we're sort of going to talk about a bit um and that and another project and stuff. But um, you've been it's been a while since since we've we've had a pod together, me and you. It has been a long time, hasn't it. I have been,

I have been very well. I've I was on holiday in Zanzibar a couple of weeks ago, which was very nice, highly recommended. Um, and then I came back and just had so much kind of work and sort of stuff piled up that I just didn't have time to to

prepare for a podcast. But but now fortunately kind of you know that thing where you go on holiday and you're like, oh, I'm just going to relax for a week and you have a lovely kind of relaxing time, and then you get back and because you haven't done any work for a week, everything is absolutely mental and you you know, you spend like the next two three four weeks kind of catching up on everything you missed whilst you were away, and you don't feel like you've

had a holiday at all. No holidays are it's just a complete miss. No, like the stress and of organizing one, and then the travel stress. Then when you get there and it's like, okay, cool, is it living up to my expectations. I never stopped working and and my I've always got something on my mind and I enjoy my work. So I'm just working in a new environment that's costing

me more money. And then it's the travel back. And then also at on top of that the arguments because I've not really been relaxing and spending time with my family, I've just been working in a hot place. Means that I don't like holidays that much. I must say, I'm

kind of with you. I Like we we went away and like we were really sort of strict about like we're going to we're going to relax, we're not going to do anything and stuff, and it was really nice for about twenty four hours and then it was sort of like ah, yeah, and then but we did have a relaxing week in the end, but there was you know, there was sort of stress at the back of your

back of my mind. And then on the final more like we were leaving at really early in the morning, we had to get a taxi from our hotel to the airport, which was about an hour and a half drive away, and the taxi just didn't turn up, so you know, we were getting into worried about missing our plane territory, and you know, fortunately managed to rustle up another taxi from somewhere and I just like, in that sort of frantic taxi ride to the airport, I was like, okay,

well that's all the relaxation from the holiday just melted away in this slight past hour and a half of pure and liquid stress. Okay, cool, this is going to cost me a lot of money in rebooking a flight, gonna get another hotel, got to kill a taxi driver and hide a body in Zandibar, And yeah, it's it's a lot of things to sort of take on board.

But also when you have kids. If you have kids, it makes even worse because it's kind of like just traveling with just a ball of explosive pooh that that cries and needs to be fed and doesn't know what's going on a plane. Um, and then there's the baby as well, So you know, professional professional comedian. It's just seamless, just seamless. What has happened since we last talked? What was the last since we last podcast? That was to three weeks ago, maybe longer. I think it was about

a month ago. Yeah, month ago. It was about a month ago. A lot has happened in the last month. It's been. Yeah, it's been sort of more kind of classic bear market going on. I think, well, one of the more one of the kind of more interesting things to happen, certainly in the last week or so, has

been the has been this Twitter takeover. Elon Musk is now is now chief chief Twit came into Twitter headquarters with a sink yeah, And I'm not sure was that all just an elaborate pun, because he then tweeted out let that sink in. Yeah, I just bought Twitter. Let that sink in. And I remember that's a lot of effort for a poor bit of wordplay, for for a

pretty cheesy pun. Yeah. I remember watching that and thinking if I was a Tesla shareholder, I would be really concerned right now on just so many levels, Like this is the man, this is the man running the company, and here he is kind of gooning around with his new company, which is clearly going to going to take up a lot of his time and energy. It's like, what about all the other companies that he's supposed to be running, Like what about the massive car maker. You

know that is like a multi multibillion dollar company. Why aren't you surely that that would take up most normal human beings time. I just like, I don't really understand why he's doing it. I think it's kind of cool in a lot of ways that he's doing it, but or that he's done it. I mean, it's it's just to me why he's doing it. You know, like you've got to have some sort of like look at all the big players in that he's the richest man in

the world. And if you've got the like a media mouthpiece, if you are a Rupert Murdoch and you own half of the newsplapers and and sort of TV channels, then you've you've got a lot of power and ability to sway people's perspectives and positions. Now, if you are a billionaire, richest man in the world. Um, that is something that and the world is has become mean, you know, there's a great sort of disparity between the richest and the poorest, and you need to keep your pr up so that

the peasants don't revolved and eat you. It's it's in your favor, it's in your interest to have a mouthpiece that you can manipulate. And and you know, coerce what is being said. I know he's saying it's all for free speech and all of that, which may be true. I'd love for that to be true. But maybe the billionaires got alteriat ulterior motives. I don't know, ask asked Mark Zuckerbook what what his motives are by changing his

company named to Meta is it? Is it? You know, is that a big land grab and making sure that matter is associated or the Meta versus said with the old Facebook or I don't know. I mean, it's it's it's all. I don't take anything at face value. But also I do quite like Eaton because he is a bit of a rogue. But then also he's a bit of a rogue, so I don't like him. It's very much. Yeah, I I find My opinion of him sort of very

much varies depending on my mood. Like if you wake up and you're in a bad mood, you just like Elon Musk again, please can we just stop? And then other times it's like, wow, this guy is you know, this guy is crazy, but you know he's making stuff, He's making stuff happen like that. There really is never

a dull moment when he's around. But yeah, I'm just like I just kind of feel like you just just just stick to the five companies you already run, like, you know, because obviously he's got Tesla, He's also got the SpaceX. He's also Stylink, Neuralalink, the boring company, you know, and now Twitter as well. It's just like, I just wonder how many Elon Musks there are, Like has he

has he cloned himself? Because it's quite it's quite possible he owns a cloning company as well and has just cloned himself several times, And you know that would be would that even surprise you if that came out? I don't think it would. I don't think it would mean No. I mean, he it's it's a weird, weird, weird, weird family isn't it. And he's like he named his child an equation, His baby mama is Grimes. It's it's we are living in a simulation because it is the only

way that any of this can really be happening. It's so bizarre. It makes less and less sense the more you read about it, isn't it? Well, you say his Grimes is a baby mama. I mean, I think he's got several because he's like, he's really worried about population declines, so he's literally taking it upon himself to try and singlehandedly reverse that. Him and Boris which yeah, him and Boris Johnson are between them trying to repopulate the earth, which I mean, you've got to, You've gotta hand it

to them. But I mean that that that itself is going to take up a lot of time. I just I just don't know how he has. I don't know, when you become a billionaire, do you just get an extra few hours in the day. So I don't know, I'm not sure, but but you know, maybe we should reach out to him and ask if if if he would lend me some money or come on one of the two. I think it'd be interesting. So what this, uh, this, I suppose we should probably talk about the topic that

this part is. It's about I think that could be a good idea. Um, And we've touched the net because I sort of just jumped and skipped ahead because I have a d h D. But I'm going to let you talk about this because you're going to explain it and probably a little bit more of a clear linear way rather than me just blurting out things that have happened to me in my life. But it's very entertaining, Mike.

I mean, you know, if you want to if you want to pepper pepper Today's Conversation with sort of anecdotes from your life, then feel free and I'll just make sure that they get removed in the editor. They always do. Normally we submit about about sort of four to five hours of material to our editor, which he then manages to cut down into an hour and a half. But yeah, mostly it's just Mike rambling away about things that have happened to him, people that have people that have wronged him,

budges that he holds all. Here's another list of all the people. So, yeah, I thought we'd talked about move to earn, which is a kind of growing category of crypto projects that looked to basically reward users for moving, hence the name basically, and I guess before we get to before we get too into the details of it, it's probably best to frame this particular niche in the

kind of context of Web three. Okay, because we've talked about Web three a bit before, haven't we, And you might remember that I sort of framed it as basically Web one, which was the kind of early days of the web being basically read only. So people people would put up websites and other people would look at them and that was that was about it, and people would send each other emails, and you know, a picture would take half an hour to load, all this sort of stuff.

Then Web two came along and kind of changed the game completely, and that became sort of Web two was more kind of read right, So not only was their loads you loads more content to look at, but us, the users were also creating that content to a very

large extent. So and this was the This was when platforms like Facebook obviously kind of sprung up and really became the kind of behemoths that they are today and basically made made money off us because we you know, we shared, if you like, we uploaded all this information about ourselves, and then Facebook and others found ways of taking that data and selling it, selling it to advertisers and making money off it. And this has been kind of very much the story of of Web two, if

you like. So Web three has now come along and this is this is something that gets talked about a lot, and I guess the simplest way of putting it, or thinking about it perhaps is Web three is read, write, earn. So the ethos, if you like, what it's trying to achieve is basically to kind of take some of that power back away from the big companies that made, you know, that made web too what it was, and give it back to users. And crypto obviously plays a big part

in that. Because users of Web three, you know, they're using crypto. They're able to exchange value over the Internet with each other peer to peer. You know, they don't need an intermediary like a bank or a payment process or or you know, a social media platform or anything

like that. You know, so Web three is, you know, it is very much this idea that people that people are kind of taking taking making getting more from their time on the web and not necessarily just kind of funneling information and profits towards kind of big, big centralized

companies like Facebook and others. And you know, a lot of it is is a lot of it is about having sort of control over over your personal data, for example, and there are kind of projects out there that are looking to you know, whereas now these big centralized companies sell your data web three, the future could be like you, you might choose to sell your data or you might choose you might choose to decide who to whom your

data is sold. And this is a big part of you know, of kind of funneling control and you know, also value back to the actual users of the web, the people who kind of make it what it is so and also you know, it's things, it's it's also about this idea of of the time that you spend on the web as well. You know, there are there are lots of projects. The Brave browser is one that

we've talked about before as well. You know, you should be rewarded for the amount of time, for the amount of attention that you that you give to two pages on the web. And again, as I say, crypto is a big part of this enabling this kind of this

this kind of transfer of you without intermediaries. And we're also seeing a little bit dangerous though, isn't isn't so like there's a certain limit on you know, are we going to see you know how you see these gambling adverts, which is like gamble, gamble, gamble, gamble, gamble, don't forget gamble responsibly. And now now it's going to be like cool, be online, be online, be online, be online, will pay you to be online, but don't be online too much?

Is it? Is it not sort of rewarding something that is not necessarily healthy in large sort of quantities. You know, I'm spending twenty hours a day online in the metaverse is not going to be healthy? Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, And I think that I think that is certainly one of the one of the dangers of it. And yeah, we talked about this a bit when we talked about the

metaverse a few a few weeks ago, didn't we. It's like this idea of yeah, of being constantly have been constantly online, of there being kind of no escape from this, from this virtual world, and yeah, that's that's definitely that's definitely a dangerous dangerous thing. And I guess, you know, Web three projects, if they're going to do, if they're going to do this sort of thing, well, you know, I guess it becomes about I guess it becomes about

having a balance as well, doesn't it. You know? And it's like, how do you how does web three kind of navigate those waters? How does it make it sort of worth your time to be on the internet but also a heavy lifestyle that's balanced. Is that what Sweatpoint is trying to do? Is it like, okay, cool, look, get out, get get the headset off, get your phone off, put it in your pocket and walk about. Is that how this move to Earn stuff? Is that what it's about?

Or is it more just being on your phone and having that app open while you're moving around? No, I think certainly the way that these the way that these move to Earn projects have kind of positioned themselves is yeah, all about getting people more active, and that means yeah, walking about you exercising and going out out and about in the great outdoors, but also using the you know, using this technology that we all carry around with ourselves in our pockets, you know, use making use of that

to also you know, kind of incentivize and and reward you. Um and I think before we look, you know, before we dive into into the actual move to phenomenon, it's also worth looking at kind of play to earn which which came before, and is this idea that again, like you know, people play computer games all the time, people are always you know, this is a big This is a big way that a lot of people spend their

leisure time. So why not be able to make you know, why not be able to make some money off of it? Why not be able to you know, to extract value from it for you, for you the user. And you know we've seen this as what this is. This is something that's not necessarily unique to web three in a way, like there are plenty of game you know, Fortnite and

Roadblocks and things like that. Are these sort of games that you can you know, you can earn by playing and you earn these in game currencies that they have. I mean, is it is it Fortnite has has v bucks or something like that, Roadblocks as a roebucks something. You know that there are these kind of in game currencies and you know the idea of sort of acquiring things as you go through a game is nothing new, it's just you know, it's just trying to find a

kind of more monetary angle to it. And so play to Earn has has become sort of a fairly big, a fairly big niche and is something that a lot of people think is going to be a kind of cornerstone of the future of web three. You know, as more and more of us spend our time online, as more and more people play video games to unwind. It's like, again, if there's a way that you can that they can earn from it, if they can extract value, then that

could incentivize them to also play more. So you can you can sort of see you can sort of see it being positioned as a as a win win for both sides. Yeah, I'm not sure I believe that, you know that. I don't buy that this whole move to earn thing. I know. I'm just going back to that is is for your benefit, you know what I mean. I don't think that's why these things are created. Don't

get me on. There's a lot of great projects in crypto which are you know, do have origins of goodwill, But I don't know if this is one of them because it's it's okay, it's there's there's an other it's a good way to get people moving. But I think it's one more way of of of of us giving them data, do you know what I mean, Like it

is tracking our movements. There's there's these big scooter and bike share ride companies which are pumping loads of money into these um sort of cycle shares and scooter share companies, and they're not making very much money, not very much money at all. But there's still people queuing up to throw money at these projects. And it's not because they want to get people moving and and make things greener.

It's because they want the data and understanding how we move and what's going on around there, because that is what's valuable. And I think, just off my initial thoughts in this pod that this this move to Anthon is exactly the same sort of thing. But they don't even have to buy a mopad or or a bike and put them into a city only for for someone like me to throw in a river. They've managed to They've

managed to cut out the whole expensive hardware aspects. There's an interesting fact that Manchester is the only city in in the world where they've they've of discontinued this bike share scheme because of the number of bikes that they just hooyd into canals. Um. Yeah, and no, you make a good point there, and well not necessarily about Manchester,

but yeah, it's like this idea. It also ties in with this kind of whole idea as heart of hardware as a service and this this you know notion that the World Economic Forum and people associated with it have that, you know, in order to keep people consuming that it's it's not about it's not about people buying things and owning things, you know, because there aren't there aren't enough new consumers because of demographic trends and things like that.

There aren't enough new consumers kind of coming online if you like, to keep buying products. So a lot of a lot of companies are now kind of looking towards this idea of subscription services and things like that, where you where you pay sort of constantly and then you know, you can just have these things. You know, things just get updated, but you keep paying, and that kind of that's a way of kind of locking consumers into a permanent,

you know, cycle of consumption if you like. And yeah, it's and Again, obviously data, you know, harvesting people's data and things like that plays plays a big part in it.

So I think you're yeah, I mean, I think you're right to sort of to to kind of look perhaps look skeptically on on the whole sort of move to earn thing, because yeah, I think it's it's a it's a it's a right, it's a proper question to ask, like, is this just another way of of tying people to their phones, of getting people to reveal stuff about themselves and how they move and where they go and what they do and you know, what they spend and all that sort of stuff and find you know, and use

that information to to monetize people more. Yeah, but they get airbuds. It's not for free. You're going to get some cheap Chinese earbuds sent to you in four to six weeks. Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But at least people are moving at least. Yeah. Well yeah, and I think that's a good point to sort of start at as well. So you know, when talking about move to earn, because well, let's i'll tell you what we'll we'll kind of we'll look at what move to

Earn is all about. And then we'll look at the two sort of biggest move to Earn projects in the space at the moment, and we'll sort of drill down to drill down into them a little bit and and and examine them. And then you know, we can we can see by the end if this is something that you know, if this is a niche that may have you know, may have a place in the future, or whether it's just a or whether it's just a fad. Um. So, okay, so we've talked about this idea of play to earn.

You know, this this kind of Web three notion of people, you know, people being rewarded or the time and attention that they spend you know, playing games or interacting with apps or whatever it is. Um. And yeah, we all have, as I said, we all have this technology in our pocket that can kind of track our movements. So you know, pretty much, I think most smartphones now they have they have motion trackers, they have step counters, all these sorts

of things built into them. So basically, what the move to Earn, what Move to Earn projects are doing is

is taking that technology that already exists. And I guess if you like kind of gamifying really so adding sort of incentives and you know, these these other kinds of you know in incentives and sort of extra bells and whistles if you like, which which includes crypto and n f t s in order to you know, in order to find a way to kind of make people engage with, you know, with these platforms more and similar to how you can make a monkey dance if you feed it peanuts. Yes, yeah,

we're the monkeys. And yeah, these apps are feeding us, feeding us digital peanuts in the peanut peanut shaped n f T s. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I mean let's let's let's yeah, it's I'm you are surprisingly skeptical about it, Mikey. But then and then and then again, you know, I think that could make for more, you know, sort of more interesting debate because I mean, let's let's first start off, like sedentary lifestyles, you know, people's people's lifestyles kind of

sat down. You know, we all spend way too much time in front of a computer for work, We all spend way too much time watching TV for leisure or playing games or whatever it is. You know, sedentary lifestyles are a big killer, especially in yeah, especially in developed in developed nations, you know, especially when people have like a lot of leisure, a lot of leisure time, which is becoming sort of more and more the norm for

you know, for more and more of humanity. So it is a big problem and governments have to spend a lot of money on the consequences of this, because as we become more sedentary, we become more and more unhealthy. We develop fatter, lazier, we develop more diseases, you know, things like this and these disease. This is this kind of adds up to a net loss really because it's lost productivity, it's lost resources in terms of in terms of actual people doing work, all these sorts of things.

So I think there is definitely a there is definitely a problem to be addressed, which is I think a good starting point for well, for any kind of you know, for any sort of endeavor. It's like, that's what if you're starting a project, if you're starting a company or whatever. You kind of have to identify your niche, don't you have to. You have to identify a problem that you are looking to solve. And I think physical inactivity and it's consequent senses are definitely a big problem that needs

to be tackled. And I think as well, you know, there's this notion that humans respond very positively to incentives, you know, to rewards and incentives. So if you can you know, so you have this problem. You you have this idea, right, we need to get people, We need to get people off the sofa, We need to get people active. So how do we do that, Well, we need to incentivize them. And you know, humans can be

quite sort of short term. And obviously the big incentive really for for moving around and being active and therefore being healthy is the fact that it will improve your quality of life. Chances are you'll you'll live longer, you'll be healthier, you'll be you'll be you know, you'll be

more attracted, etcetera, etcetera. Whereas if you if you just spend all day long sat on your ass, you know, doing nothing or looking at a computer or whatever, then the problems pile up and you become bitter and unhappy, and you know, you eventually spend all your time trolling people on Twitter or whatever it is. So yeah, and but that sort of long term incentive of oh, if you're active, then you know you'll live a longer, healthier life.

That's it's quite difficult to motivate people like that, that's too long term. But if you can find a sort of short term alternas if it's like okay, well if you if you're a bit more active, then you can get a reward. And this, I think is what these these move to ourn apps are looking to do. You know, it's it's like looking to looking to give people a sort of palpable reward, a sort of short term reward for getting up and being active. And I think that

is I think that is a good thing. Leaving aside for the moment, the idea of you know, any kind of data harvesting or you know, how they how they do it, or what they reward you with, I think you you know, I think you can agree that that's it is good to incentivize people in that direction. Certainly. I think I think it's it's the carrot and stick sort of argument here, and I think this carrot is not really as much of a carrot as they it should be. I think it should be a bit of

a mixture of both. So you know, look, if you don't move, you won't be given this carrot. And that's all you have to eat, and I think that's what's going to get results. A bit more of a dictator sort of sort of vibe to it, you know what I mean, Like you will starve to death unless you move. That sounds a bit bit bit slavey, actually, like that sounds a bit too extreme. Maybe if we dial it

back a little bit. I was going to say, like, if this is, if this is the start of your pitch for your move to earn, like move to I've got some I've got some questions you've got. I have some concerns. I'm not saying I'm not interested. I just have a few. There are just a few things that

we need. It's not the first company that's done something similar to this, Like there is there's life insurance companies, I think Vitality or something like that that they give you an Apple watch and they kind of so if you are doing this, if you're if you're exercising enough, and what's called it reduces your premium because they go, okay, cool, this this this idiot is going to live a little bit longer and probably won't will be paying us a

premium a little bit longer before he eventually gets you know, you know, cold and dies or whatever. Um, and it's it's it's it's akin to the car insurance companies that would fit a device into your car that would monitor how you're driving and then give you a a monthly sort of premium that would indicate you know, your you're driving habits and behaviors and how fast and how long and how much you're driving. Yeah, or I mean or just you know there no claims bonus sort of thing.

It's like, if you drive safely and don't crash your car, we will make your insurance cheaper, or don't claim for your you know, don't claim for the damage when you dial it all with all of it. Yeah, you're right, And I think there are you know, there are certainly, I mean some companies now are incentivized. I think there are. I think there are tax breaks that you can that you can get as an employer if you promote healthy living,

healthy choices amongst your staff. So if you if you do something like include gym memberships as part of a as part of an employment package, um, or you you know, you promote healthy eating at work or something like that. I think in some in some countries there are kind of tax breaks that you can get for doing that because governments are you know, governments are looking to YEA to save money sort of downstream with with healthcare costs when all you know, so it's it's there is, yeah,

these incentives. I think you can argue there are people are already sort of separately incentivized. But I think what's what I think is quite interesting about the sort of move to earn thing is that that's kind of you know, that's kind of taking it more back to back to the individual again. It's like, Okay, you know, why don't you know, take control of your don't don't you know, don't leave it up to your company to incentivize you and stuff. It's like, you can, you know, incentivize yourself.

Here's here's a step counter. Here are some coins that you can earn for doing it. Now go off and now go forth and and exercise and stuff. So I think, you know, in order to in order to assess whether this is like a passing fad or whether this is something that can you know, can actually make a difference, I think we need to look at the two sort

of big crypto projects in this in this niche. And obviously, you know, there are there are other As you mentioned, there are other sort of This doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with crypto, but obviously this is something. This is a new kind of front that's opened up in it and I think it's worth exploring. So shall we take a quick break and then look at look

at a couple of these projects. Sounds good. I'm going to go activate my swork coin account and I'm going to run around the block for five minutes so I can earn a few more little coins. Okay, good that you see. There you are. You're incentivized right here. Welcome back everyone to part two. My name is still mad Mike Mooch apparently, and his name is still guy. Okay, so let's take a look at these two big move

to Earn projects, shall we. Now these are just the two biggest ones by market cap, and this is a growing crypto ny stir about. I guess about a dozen maybe more move to earn crypto project x out there, but these two are the ones that have, as I say, the largest market caps, and also I think have received the kind of the most kind of attention in not

just the crypto media, but the media in general. So let's start off with the largest one, the most well known, perhaps, which is a project called Stephen and that is spelled st yeah st e p n Steppen. And this, now, this is a this is a bit of a newcomer really. This was launched back in December one, so less than a year ago, um, and it has grown pretty quickly since then. It generated a lot of hype over the last year or so. UM. Now, a quick bit of

background about Stephen. It's built on Salana, which is as you'll as you'll probably know, is one of these rival, if the rivals to Ethereum. It's a Layer one blockchain, but it's famous for being one of the if not the fastest cryptocurrency blockchain out there when it actually works, which it doesn't quite a lot of the time. Is Salana is sort of notorious for having these outages, which which we might touch on later. Anyhow, so step and

launched on Salana. It had about sort of five million dollars in initial funding, and at first you could only sort of re you know, you download an app and uh, and you have to have at first, I think you had to have an activation code. And these activation codes weren't sort of freely available. I think you had to go into you either had to find them from the project's Twitter or through its through its discord. And yeah, they were. They weren't always the activation codes weren't always

that easy to come across. Now I'm I think this may have served two purposes. I think one it may have given the project kind of this air of exclusivity. You know, it's like, oh, it's not just like you know you have to be you have to be. You have to follow it on discord, you have to follow it on Twitter or whatever like that. You know, you have to be in the know and not just anyone can join, which obviously makes more people want to join UM.

And I think perhaps it was also actually perhaps quite a clever way of making sure that they just onboarded users in a sort of timely manner, because sometimes sometimes with these especially with cryptocurrency blockchains that you know, are

still very much in development. And we saw this with Cardano when it when it looks sort of launched, smart contracts and DAPs became available for the first time night, so many people were clamoring to use it that they that the network just couldn't handle the number of people. So um, I think maybe this was a sort of duel way of kind of generating exclusivity but also kind of managing to one board the it was all able

to work. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now stepan kind of works like this, and this is this is the very simple This is the sort of elevation to pitch if you like. This is a kind of simple way because it gets that. There are quite a few kind of extra add ons and stuff which will touch on in a bit, But basically, you download the app and then you have to in order to start playing, you have to buy a pair of n f T sneakers trainers as we call them

in the UK, the pair of NYT sneakers. And once you once you have these sneakers and you start sort of walking around, then obviously the location tracking app in your phone it makes a note of how much you're walking, and then you're rewarded in one of the apps in game currencies GST, which stands for Green Satoshi Token. So yeah, so I mean that's that's kind of fairly straightforward, isn't it. You buy an n f T, you know, in the form of these n f T trainers, you start walking around,

you earn crypto. Now, Unfortunately, I think this is I think this is one of stepping limitations in a way in that it kind of gets a bit more complicated from that because there are there are sort of all these upgrades that you can make to these n f T sneakers. There are sockets, there are gems. You know, each pair of each pair of sneakers is slightly different, so you know, some have different naturally a bit like and you know, a bit like top trumps or something.

You know, some have when you're when you're choosing a car in a racing game. Some have got better accelerations, some have got better turning, some have got better you know, fuel consumption or whatever. And they're all slightly different and and and sort of make up you know, make it a bit more interesting. Yeah, yeah, And I think yeah, that's a fair point. It does kind of you know, it does kind of add more elements to the game.

And you know, I refer to it as a game, because that is very much how Stepan kind of refers to itself. You know, it's it's a game. It's something that you play. Um And again it's this this idea of kind of gamification I think is a big part of you know, how you get people, how you get people involved, you know, how you get people sort of keep interacting with it. It's like it's a game. I

have to accumulate things. I have to I have to play it, which is obviously more fun than just kind of using it if you like so, So, yeah, it does get a bit more involved. But different levels of trainer I suppose I have to call them sneakers because that's what they're referred to in the game. Different levels

of sneakers, anyone, don't pander pander to American terminology. Okay, Different pairs of trainers do different things, Like I think, you know there are ones if you're just going to walk at a certain speed, then you know there's a pair of trainers for that. But if you're a runner, if you if you're going to look to look to look to earn these look to earn GST by running, then you need a different pair of trainers or something

like that. Um And then to complicate matters further, there's also gm g m T, which is stands for Green Metaverse Token, and this is the kind of the game's kind of governance token. If you like so, yeah, as I say, there are lots of kind of upgrades and stuff. Different pairs of trainers do different things like and you know, let's face it, if you're prepared to pay more for and then, you know, for a higher quality and f T trainer, then you will be able to earn more g s T and g m T from you know,

from walking around. And this is this is important, I think because stepan got very very popular, very quickly, and the hype around it got really crazy, and as a result, the what they call the floor price of these n f T s, you know, which is kind of minimum price, minimum entry point if you like, the floor price went

absolutely ballistic. Now at one point on the thirtieth of April this year, the floor Now bear in mind this is built on Salana, so you have to pay with Soul, which is obviously the native coin of the Salana blockchain. Um At one point on the thirtieth of April this year,

the floor price was fourteen point eight nine soul. Okay, so just shy of fifteen soul to buy to buy an NFT and bear in mind you have to, yeah, buy a pair of virtual trainers, and bear in mind you have to buy the trainers in order to play the game. That's how it works. So fourteen point eight

nine Soul. Now at that point one Soul was ars, so in order to buy in order to just get involved with playing the game, you needed to shell out just shy of four hundred dollars on the pair of n f T trainers, which is a pretty high barrier to entry. You know, it's one thing downloading an app and getting an activation code, even if that activation code is quite hard to come by. That's one thing. Buying an n f T that's another. Buying a far n f T just to be able to participate in the game.

That is, you know, quite another thing in itself. So that was, Yeah, that all all the hype, I mean, you know, obviously it was attracting new users and things like that. Lots of people were getting on board, but the popular it kind of became a bit of a victim of its own success in a way because the prices just went crazy. Now this was while the crypto bullmarket was still going on, so you know, there was still a lot of hype around crypto, which is all

kind of evaporated now. Um. It's also worth pointing out that that GMT in particular went ballistic around that time too, so it around the same time it reached its all time high of four dollars and eleven cents. So you know, even if you had paid for an n f T pair of trainers, you know, you could still earn theoretically

a decent amount in GMT by by moving around. Now, both the floor price of the n f T s and actually the sticker price of GMT have dropped a lot since then, so um I actually downloaded the app earlier to to to you know, when I was doing research for this, and I was able to buy an n f T trainers for like just under one SOUL, and that is SOUL is currently around thirty three dollars at the moment, so that's obviously a much lower barrier

to entry. It is still I would say, a fairly high barrier to entry by a lot of people's standards, though, which is which is again something that I found a little, you know, a little disconcerting. It's like, okay, just in order to get started, you've got to, you know, you've got to download the app, open the wallet by buy some Soul, buy an n f T, all this sort of stuff in order to get earning. So remember, guy, this is all just for your health. There's there's no

other motive for any of this this. We're doing this for you to make sure you're good. Give us some wor that is true. That is true. Well, okay, so it's worth it's worth talking about how it Steppen makes money. I think it's a large part of Stephen's revenue comes from, you know, sales of these n f T s, particularly on the secondary market, so it takes a cut of

of n f T sales. And there is quite a thriving or certainly when Steppen was really popular, there was quite a thriving market, you know for these n f T s. People would buy them, see the price go up, and you know, flip them, sell them on and all this sort of stuff. So you know, Stephen was able to make its money that way, you know, not necessarily from from harvesting user data or anything like that. And also, of course Steppen issued g m T and GST, these

two in game tokens. Now as the price that those went up, obviously you know that they're they're also in profit. Now. I didn't have I didn't quite have time to look into the sort of vesting of GMT because obviously, like you know, early investors into Stepen were would would have been rewarded in you know, for their investment with GMT, but that is vested, So that doesn't mean that they can necessarily sell it straight away. So that is something

to bear in mind. But that is obviously a way in which the project can make money in the long term. You know that through through sales of GMT, which has or GST which have you know, both accumulated in value, even though they're a long way from from their all time highs at the moment. So yeah, and I mean stepping the project, it's still got a lot of traction.

I mean, user numbers are are way way down on what they were you know when the project was sort of really hyped up back in kind of April May. And the crypto bear market is a big part of that. You know, people just aren't so aren't so on board with with crypto anymore. UM. But I think you know, it's clearly had it clearly had something. You know, the project clearly has something. It attracted a lot of attention, UM,

and it attracted you know a lot of investment as well. UM. And I mean it is still you know, it is still very much, you know, very much going on, you know, very much a going concern. There is a lot of development happening on step and there are a lot of kind of you know, milestones ahead for the project. Um. It's had a few sort of things to deal with as well. It suffered a di dos attack earlier this year. It was also forced to block users from from mainland

China were running around too much. Possibly possibly I think, well it was apparently because of regulation. Chinese regulators weren't too weren't too happy with it. Um. I mean, personally, my speculation is I reckon the Chinese government sort of looked at it and went well, tracking people's movements, that's that's very much our job. So you know, you guys were not too happy about this, you know, some some to the experts. Yeah, exactly where I think, you'll fine.

We're much better at knowing where people were going. We got this, we got this. Yeah. That's a very very brief kind of over view of of Stephen, which, as you know at the time of recording, is still very much the biggest of the move to earn projects. I haven't got its market actual market cap to hand yet, but you know, it's still very much, very much up there. So the other one, now, the next one is quite interesting as well. And this is one that you know

you've talked about as well. Now, this is sweat coin, and this launched more recently. Now that's not that's not actually entirely true. I had I had an early early version of this, maybe pre pandemic, I think, where it was kind of like you you you walk about, uh, you move around, and will give you some fake money where you can get some stuff with. And I had the ingenious idea of of gaffer taping my phone to my dog and just letting him run. But I have

a small dog in a big phone. It didn't really work, and I got bored and realized didn't really want anything that was on there. Peter got involved, there was a lawsuit the r s p C A. Yeah, yes, good, good, And the phone's recovered as well, I hope it's yes, So yeah, you're right. Sweat cooin itself has actually been around. I think it's been around since so pre pandemic. And yeah, sweat cooin is is actually a very popular, very successful

health and fitness app. In fact, I think even this year, it is the most downloaded health and fitness app in the world, which is which is pretty crazy. Really, It has around a hundred and twenty million users, yeah, which is pretty damn good. And obviously, yeah, it's it's it

works in a similar way. It uses it uses step counters, and you know, it uses the technology already in your phone to you know, to log how much you move around, and it's it's had this own sort of pretty popular app with its kind of own kind of inbuilt marketplace for for quite a while now, but in just the last couple of months it has actually launched its own cryptocurrency.

So in just the last kind of in just the last couple of months or so, it's actually launched its own cryptocurrency called sweat Economy or you know, sweat short. But yeah, so it's important to clarify that before before we talk about the crypto Sweaty. It's like this, this is something that has existed for a few years already. So this isn't like a brand new crypto project that's just you know, brand new moved to earn crypto project. This is an already established health and fitness app that

has moved now into crypto as well. Yeah. Now, as I say about a undred and twenty million active users at the last count, I think thirteen million of those had activated crypto wallets. Okay, so you know it's um by no means, by no means you know, a majority of of sweat coin users have opted to you know, to go crypto if you like. But it does suggest that, you know, there is there is a kind of potential user base for for the crypto project itself to expand into.

And another thing that's interesting about sweat is that it's built on near protocol, which is a big rival to Solana. The two projects are actually do actually have quite a lot in common. Um. But yeah, so you can think of sort of Sweat or sweat Economy as it's as it's sort of more rightly known as kind of the big rival to Stepan and on a rival blockchain as well.

So yeah, so what's interesting is that it does have this kind of strong user base that it's built up quite separate, quite removed from anything to do with crypto. And the Sweat Economy token has launched in I think it launched in mid September, and it's sort of immediately kind of shot up to about eight cents or whatever, but it's now kind of dwindled right down to it's

sort of between one or two cents um. But which is again kind of hardly surprising because you know, we are we are in a bear market, after all, how far do you have to go to get one of these? So I was looking into this, and this is this is one of the interesting things, and this is something I want to touch on a little bit in the after the next break as well, when we talk about like, you know, how moved to earn is kind of going,

you know, is there a future for it? Because um, at the moment, you have to walk sort of over a little over a thousand steps in order to mint one sweat coin thirty in a day. It's a big day, but that's that's decent. Yeah, Well, I think, as as

I understand it, you're limited. You can earn up to sort of five sweat coins a day at the moment, so only your first five thousand or so steps actually count and five is your five is your maximum, which I guess is you know, is a way of sort of incentivizing people to do you know, a fair bit of walking. But you know, you can't go on a thirty mile run and earn hundreds or whatever it would be, which I think is perhaps, you know, a little bit of a shame, but we'll we'll talk about that in

a bit. Um. But yeah, so sweat Yeah, but apparently it's going to become progressively more and more difficult. So at the moment you can earn one sweat coin with a little over one thousand steps, it's it's um projected over the next few years to get more and more and more, so you know, eventually you're a walkin half life. Yeah, but yeah, a bit like a bit sort of similar to a bitcoin harving in a way. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you're gonna have to walk progressively more and more steps

in order to earn one sweat coin. And that's you know, that is you know it kind of as it gets, as the asset gets guess it gets harder to earn. You would think that that would you know, that would presumably add add some value to it, But again we'll talk about that in a moment. So so, yes, sweatcoin itself as a non crypto thing, it does have users in kind of dozens of countries. It does have sort

of one twenty million and you know, plus users. So in theory, if that gets adopted as a crypto, you know, that could be that could be a real force for kind of mass adoption of crypto in the future. And another thing that I noticed about sweat cooin as well, which I which I thought was interesting, was that it seems a lot simpler than stepping, Like you know, sweatcoin does does have a roadmap. Yeah, Like I suppose it's kind of it's that that that's that's a that's a

good point, so it's easier to get involved with. But then also it's it's big sort of user base may not already be crypto savvy, so it's kind of it works in two ways. Like they've got a an audience there, but as far as their crypto and the coin, it's it's you know, a lot of the people may not be interested or or or educated aware enough on how to so sort of set up a wallet and get

get all that. Yeah, and I think, you know, it means that it's good in a way because if you're not interested in crypto, you know, if you're just using it too in its kind of earlier format, you know, to earn to earn sort of normal sweatcoins if you like non crypto sweatcoins, which are obviously you know, can't be used can only be used within the app itself. Um, then you know you don't have to You can just

carry on using sweatcoin as normal. The crypto at the crypto element of it is completely opt in rather than default. So yeah, and I think like there are things on sweat cooins roadmap, you know that they're going to be doing stuff with n f t s. You can sort of stake your your sweat tokens as well. There are going to be sort of more and more things, more

and more integrations. But if you want to, you know, if you want to do it, all you really need to do is download the app, follow the instructions to set up a wallet, start walking and that's it. You know, you don't need to buy an n f T exactly, and you don't really need to know imaginary trainers exactly exactly.

So I think that's you know, I think that's an important thing to bear in mind, is that there there there isn't nearly the sort of barrier to entry as there is with with something like Stepan, and you know, to be fair to step and I think this is something that the project itself is very aware of, you know, but this is something I want to talk about this in a bit more details, sort of after the break. So we'll just kind of well, just before we talk

about that, we'll just kind of finish up on on sweatcoin. Really, as I say that, there's a lot kind of there's a lot in the pipeline for it, and um you may remember that on the podcast a few weeks ago, I spoke to Rob Wolfe who runs a channel called Digital Asset News. Really really cool guy, really, you know, one of the one of the real good guys in crypto, and he has done he is really he's really keen on sweat coin. He's a big fan of it, and

he's done quite a lot of material about it. So you know, anyone listening who is interested in sweat coin, then Digital Asset News and Rob over there are other people to you know, to go and find out more about that. Um So before we take another break, I should also add, as as I said earlier, there are other kind of move to earn projects out there. We've just looked at the sort of top two by market cap there's also things like step app, Geno, Pets, Dot Moves,

um Dose, etcetera, etcetera. And as I said, there are you know, a dozen or more of these projects, which suggests that it is you know, it is a kind of it is a growing niche, so you know, another reason to watch out for it. Anyhow, let's take another quick break and then we'll look at whether Move to Earn is just a fad, can it survive? And what might the future hold? And we're back for part three of Move to Earn. I'm guy, he's mad, Mike mooch again. Yeah,

it's working quite well. What's it like inhabiting inhabiting my persona? Um, it's um, it's refreshing. There's a lot there's a lot less uh sort of hate going around my head. I feel slightly more positive about the world. Um yeah, good, good, Yes, we're back talking. Well, let's let's round, let's round this off. We've looked at these two projects, and I think the question that now remains is, well, I think two questions. Is Moved to Earn just a fad, just another passing fad,

or can it be a thing? And can these projects and others like them survive. Is there is there a place for them in the crypto ecosystem. So I mean, yeah, I want to go back to this idea. Like so many you know, so many times in crypto you see these crypto projects and you think, you know, the question is like what what problem does this solve? What utility does this particular projects have? You know, what is it

trying to do? And I think with I think with Move to Earn, there is, as I said earlier, there is a problem to solve. It's like people are generally not as active as they should be on on average, and there should be a way of incentivizing them to get off their asses and and exercise because it's good for them and it's good for society as a whole really, and I think that I think that that's one of the that's one of the reasons that I like Move to Earn. I don't think it's necessarily just a fad

in that respect. I think there is you know, there is a genuine incentive there, and if it works, it's it's a good thing. It can be you know, everyone can win um. And it also I think has the advantage of it's it's kind of filly it's it's kind of fit quite nicely into this niche as I say that the tech is already there, you know, and and the fact that sweat coin itself has existed for a long time before kind of moving into crypto. You know,

this tech is already there. We're already carrying around these devices that can track where we go and track how many steps were taking. And obviously this whole ten thousand steps thing has been you know, everyone's kind of known about that for a long time now. So it's certainly

it's you know, there's certainly a kind of ease of adoption. Really, the tech is already there, so you know, throw into n f t S a couple of tokens and a nice shiny app and and you're good to go in in a way which is perhaps a little a little bit of a cynical way of looking at it, um but I think perhaps in terms of you know, and feel free to disagree obviously with me on on any of this, Mikey, but I think perhaps the big threat that the problem that these apps face is one that

you know, lots of lots of kind of play to earn and and other crypto projects themselves face and that is that the only way that they're going to grow, that the only way that they're going to keep you know, being a thing, is to is to attract new users.

And there is that kind of you know, there is I hesitate to use the word, but there is that kind of Ponzi scheme element to it, because you know, in order to in order to keep the users that they have engaged and in order to keep being able to reward them for the activity that they're doing, they need to attract new users into you know, into the ecosystem, new users using the app, buying n f T trainers, or minting and spending sweat coins and all this sort

of stuff. So, you know, there is that there is that difficulty and as we've seen with Stephen, you know, Stephen is struggling with users now in the bear market. It remains to be seen how successful sweat coin is going to be. Obviously, thirteen million wallets is a start. Is that going to you know, is that going to

translate into into more wallets over time? Are more people going to be incentivized to, you know, to to to use the crypto element of sweat coin or are they just going to be happy using using the app in its kind of original form that remains to be seen. Um, and yeah, if if new users don't come on board, then these projects and ones like them are are really going to struggle. Yeah, and we saw that, sorry going now you're going, okay, Well, we we saw that with them.

A popular play to earn project, play to earn rather than move to earn a project called actal Infinity. Do you remember have I we've talked about in the Philippines, Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now this was, Yeah, this was a sort of game where axes are basically these sort of blob type monsters that you breed and they you know, you breed them and they fight each other and you earn you know, the in game currency of the game. And it's kind

of similar to stepan. You know, you had to buy these axes as n f T s And it became really really popular and people were earning s LP, which was the native sort of token of the game. There was also a excess, which is the kind of games governance token as well. And yeah, at one point quite a few people in the Philippines of all places, were actually earning you know, quite a nice quite a nice bit of money from They were actually earning a living

from playing ACXI Infinity, and that's because more users. The game was generating a lot of hype. More users were coming in, you know, so they were buying n f T s. They were pushing up the prices of the tokens, and therefore people who had been using the app for a while we're able to benefit. But it had kind of similar problems that Stephen has experienced in that as the n f T has got more expensive, the barriers to entry got higher and higher, and that is obviously

something that puts off new users. And then you know you have a problem because if you're not again, if you're not able to attract new users to the to the game, to the platform, then it's it's going to it's going to struggle to grow and and survive. So how do you I mean, look, we're not sure of fat people. That's that's the one thing they've got going for it. There's a lot of us fatties about um.

I don't know if that's good or bad because are we really going to be incentivized for five sweat coins a day? Which leads me back to I think instead of carrot, we should have stick, and if the government really care at us, it should be a bit more of a an ominous threat as opposed to a sort of pathetic you know, you know, carrot are you can get some earbuds, you can get some mere buds, or how about you can see your kids this week? Yeah, if you don't walk, you're not going to see a kid.

That's maybe that's not a benefit. Some people probably wouldn't want to see their kids, but some people, yeah, some people do. So you're what you're saying is that move to earn needs to go a lot more black mirror. Yeah, move to survive it needs to go more Hunger Games. Yeah, okay, okay, kind of yeah that then that's something i'd and i'd watch that. You can you can you know, that's content. It's kind of like a wipeout but instead of like

water lava. Okay, okay, I I mean so you're saying that move to earn is moved to earn is is dead. Basically it should be moved to survive. Yeah, that's what we want, kind of like Gladiate next, but with actual gladiators. The next big crypto niche won't be moved to earn it will be fight to survive. Well, you who knows the way the world is going, Mikey with you know, with people like you, I wouldn't rule it out. I

really wouldn't. Um. Yeah, I think moved to earn the I mean, you're right in a way, like, how do you is it going to be enough of an incentive? You know that people can earn a few you know, people can earn a few sweat cooins or a few g MT or whatever it is, just for for moving

around a little bit. And I think this is you know, this is a this is a good question to be asking because when Stephen was you know, when all the hype around Steppen was kind of at its peak, were people making between kind of you know, twenty and fifty dollars a day from from using the app. And now that isn't that isn't life changing amounts of money? Well, certainly not in the developed world, but you know, it's it's certainly like it's a decent side hustle, isn't it.

If you can earn if you're moving anyway, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, yeah, if you're this is the best bloody app in the world. Yeah, suddenly, you know, if you if you were yeah, if you work on your on your feet for a living, if you're if you work in an Amazon warehouse or something, if you're a doctor, you're getting bubble bubble, You're getting paid toward

the dogs and yourself and yourself. Yeah. But again, I think this is I think this is something that you know, people need to be when when kind of when looking at move to earn, I think people need to be

kind of realistic about this thing. It's because if a few early adopters can get in and make an absolute you know, make tons of money, make fifty dollars a day or a hundred dollars a day or whatever it is, that's that to me isn't sustainable, and that to me, you know, that necessarily kind of pushes up the barriers to entry in a lot of cases, and it doesn't incentivize new users at all, um because you know there will be that sense it's like, oh, well, if I've

only got in six months ago, i could be making some decent money, but as it is, I'm kind of late to the party, so I'm only going to earn maybe you know, a few pennies or a few cents a day. But I think, like, you know, I think if moved to earn is kind of realistic about itself. I think that can still be a good thing. You know, it's not about it's not about having a side hustle

all of a sudden. I don't think it's about giving people that little extra nudge to, you know, to walk instead of taking the bus two you know, to maybe just be like yeah, and it could be just that small incentive. It's just like, oh wow, you know, if I did an extra two hundred steps before I went to bed, then I could just tick over and just earn like one more sweat coin or something like that. And I think those those little incentives can be you know, can be just enough to sort of tip people to

take that little extra bit of exercise. And obviously these things are accumulative. So you know, if you are take if you are doing those few extra steps a week, that doesn't add up to anything over you know, over a couple of days, but over a couple of years for example, you know, that does translate into into more exercise. And you know, if you take that into your daily life, if you're and it makes you think about it, doesn't it.

It's like, oh, you know, I should you know, I need I need to remember to be up and about or wow, i've been sat down for four hours. I mean I found this yesterday. You know. I was like, wow, I've been sat at my desk for four hours sort of working on various things. It's like I should get you know. And I looked at I've got one of the you know, I've got both of these step counters now on my phone. And I looked and I'd like done five hundred steps in the whole day, and I

was like, wow, that's you know, that's pretty pathetic. I'm not gonna I'm not going to earn any sweat coins. I'm not going to earn anything from that. So you know, I got up and had a bit of a had a bit of a walk around, which you know, did me at least some good. So I think, yeah, I think move to earn. If it's going to be successful, it can't be you know, it can't sort of position itself as something like, oh you're going to have a nice little second stream of income. You know, you're going

to have a nice side hustle. It's it needs to be about small nudges. It needs to be about really kind of not so much incentivizing people with coins, you know, but incentivizing people to sort of make those small changes themselves and and then find later on actually it's not about earning x amount of sweat coins or whatever. It's actually about you know, you're shifting, you're you're you're right

with that. Like I read a book Stomic Habits, which is a phenomenal book and everyone should read it, and it was it talks about, you know, just small improvements, and one percent improvement over a year is dramatic, you know, the compound effect of just small incremental improvements. And those are the small incremental improvements you can make in life,

you know. It's it is, as you say, walking to work, it is skipping that sort of chocolate bar and having an apple or a banana or whatever, those small sort of little things. You know, not having an extra five dred calories a day because you've exerted it through exercise or or eating slightly healthier will make a dramatic impact over three sixty five days, and small improvements really do. But it's the commitment to that. And I suppose this

is that that small incentive to keep you committed. Um, you know, and and give these big corporations all the data of where you are at every single second day. Well, yeah, I mean I should, I think as far as as far as data is concerned. When I was when I was reading up on on both these projects, you know, it's not it's not about it's not about selling user data because I think you know, we're right to question that sort of thing, right to go, well what are

you okay? You know how much we're walking? Do you know where we're going? And what are you doing with that information? Um? That? Yeah? I mean sweat coin as well. You know, I think they they make their money largely from advertising because you know they you know, they have this platform and they build this community around it, you know, these people who are using the platform, and that that obviously gives you a place that you can sell advertising space.

You have a community. Therefore, you have eyeballs and you have and obviously you have it. And it wouldn't if you were in a certain position or a certain place and they could put a certain advertiser in front of you because you're in that location, that would be good. That sounds like Mark Zuckerberg's kind of dream. I'm that's that's a bit blade runner. If you asked me, Mike, it's like, oh hi there, Mike, see your see you're just taking a walk past McDonald's. I don't suppose you

fancy a big mac. Yeah, yeah you can, but you can get five sweat coins will get you an extra portion of chips. Yeah, ultimately pointless. Yeah, there's there's, there's there's. There's two sides of every sweat cone. I suppose, you know, I think one of the sides is, you know, it's going to help people get a little bit of additional motivation. But I do also think that there is an ulterior motive to to a lot of this, and I think, you know, understanding patterns and and movement data is something

that is um really valuable. I touched on it on an earlier segment that we may or may not cut out. But you know, the share share bikes and the share scooters that are out there, there's big money being thrown at them, and there's not very much profit from these uh sort of companies because it costs a lot of money to put these um bikes out there, and they get damaged and they get they're not treated well and you need servicing and you need to collect them and

put them all. But there's there's people queuing up to invest in this, so there is there is value from something else apart from offering that service, and and people know about it. I don't know exactly what it is. It's probably something to do with the data, but I feel that there's an element of that to this as well. And don't get me wrong, there may be some benefits you know of cool wicked incentivized as a portion of people to to get up and moving and make small

incremental changes in their life. For for some some earbuds or you know, Friendship, bracelettle whatever the hell they give away some some crypto coins. But I think people should tread with caution, sept with caution for one of a more puney phrase, because I think I think it's I'm skeptical these days. Maybe it's because I'm old, it's you're, well, yeah, there's just so much to be There's so much to

be cynical about, isn't there. And I think you're you know, you're right to question, You're right to question things like this. It's because I mean, obviously these projects. They're not doing it for free, are they. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. So there there obviously is you know, there is, and there is a business model in it for them. There is an incentive in

it for them. Um, I don't think it. I don't think in these cases, certainly the ones that we've talked about, it's it's so much about data. But I think it's it's certainly something that is certainly something that we you know, that we need to be aware of, and it's it's all so important. Going back to what we were talking

about earlier, just kind of Web three in general. You know, the big problem with web Web two was that it got you know, it became about these big corporations that that that use data that monetized us, and if we're not careful, then Web three could quite easily become about that as well. And then it's like, well, what was the point in the whole endeavor, because Okay, we've got some new apps, we've got some new things, you know, things working. There are slightly different toys to play with.

But if they just end up with the same result, if they just end up in in vast profits, going to big corporations that you know, a sort of morally dubious in a lot of cases, Then then what's what was the point in the first place. So I think you're right too, You're right to question. I also don't have a problem with it to a certain degree, you

know what I mean. Like, I was watching a YouTube channel video about a skincare company called Ordinary and they basically have taken They've they've really caused a big disruption in the skincare market, which is, you know, traditionally held by you know, these big big companies, you know, protat, Gamble, all this sort of stuff, with all their lotions and potions, and they've come in with a with a radical news of marketing sort of ploy for this product, which is, hey,

look there's nothing is innovative here. We're all selling you exactly the same stuff, and we're just going to be very clear and transparent and scientific with what it is. This whatever acid, uh whatever chemical is what is used

to make your skin feel and appear more plump. That's what it is, and that's what they say on the bottle, and that's what we're selling you instead of you know, this latest like all this science mumbo jumbo and and oxy doughs and whatever to sort of tricking into thinking exactly all of these whatever extra plus volume whatever whatever they market on the bottle. It's kind of like, no, there's there's no rocket science for this. We know what

what these chemicals do. It's not it's not witchcraft. It's just we know what it is. And everyone is selling you exactly the same thing. But we're just the ones who are going to say this is what it is. It's ordinary. We're scientific call. And maybe that's what a data company should should should should come in and say, hey, look cool, we want to learn more about how humans work and how they interact so that we can be a bit more efficient. Maybe we can plan things better.

Maybe we can um you know, use that data to benefit us and be more efficient. It's sort of like how when TfL introduced the Oyster card, they would new, okay, cool, Well these are the routes that are getting used more, so we need to invest more in these routes so that people are are comfortable on their travel and stuff like that. And maybe that's what data needs to do and be a bit more transparent and obvious and and

clear with what they're using that data for. And people may be like, okay, cool, fine, because I don't think anyone has a problem if they're looking for a certain product, Okay, cool, I need to buy some camping gear. I want adverts for good camping gear coming towards me. I don't want adverts for you know, um, I don't know, fucking skincare stuff, makeup and stuff like that. It's it's it's it's irrelevant to me. So it's on that level people are are

okay with it. It's when the data is being used for you know, more sort of dodgy stuff, you know, like with governments and and maybe big corps and stuff like suppressing sort of stuff like. That's that's when people are a bit concerned about their data. But if it's okay, cool, Look we're gonna we're gonna make the pavement wider here, or we're going to make the street lighting better here or whatever, that's great, let's do that, wonderful take my data,

have it all. Well. Yeah, and I guess you know, again, what something I was talking about earlier on wasn't that It was this idea. You know, one kind of web three idea is that that people people should be able to, you know, monetize their own data. So it's like, perhaps if you can choose who to whom you to whom

you sell that data. It's like, hey, Transport for London would like to would like to buy your travel data for a year so it can do this, this and this, and you can go, Okay, that sounds like a fair deal. Whereas you know, baby killing Evil Corp Limited would would like your data in order to develop a more efficient baby fresh babies. Yeah, then you can go, do you know what i'd I'd rather not know? Not a year, not yeah, six months? Maybe? Yeah, I'm not a monster anyhow,

we are baby killing when maybe we should. Maybe that's a good, good place to leave it. Maybe maybe it's it's certainly one of the cheery episodes that we've ended on recently. So yeah, it was good, man, it was it's good cutching up. Man. It's been a while, it has been, it has been, isn't it. Yeah, it's been a long time, but now it was fun. It was

a nice sort of rambling discussion. Um, we sort of reached reached a conclusion in a way about baby killing machines, and I feel we've I feel we've both both learned something. Thank you so much for listening to the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like to learn more about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You can also go to coin bureau dot

com for loads more information about all things crypto. You can follow me on Twitter at coin berea or one word, and I'm also active on TikTok and Instagram as well. First of all, it's not thank you for listening, You're welcome for great content. Yeah, like this is free and they're learning about a fairly great topic in a non boring way. If you'd like to visit me and hear more about me, go to mooch about m O O

C h A, b O U T or else. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever we get your podcasts. The coin Berea podcast is a production of I Heart Radio