Hello and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn, where I'm in conversation with Yannick Jacob, who I last spoke to properly before lockdown, I think, or certainly in a lockdown. It's been a long time since we spoke, well overdue. Yannick, welcome to The Coaching Inn. Claire, it's a real honour. You're such exciting things and what a huge audience of coaches. So I hope people can take a few nuggets from this one. I'm sure they will be able to take many nuggets.
We might be telling them to reduce the number of nuggets they take away by the end of the episode. You never know. So Yannick. Yeah, we now serve food at the coaching in. We serve nuggets as well as drinks. Sorry. thinking about taking away the nuggets. I was thinking about simplifying and unlearning and maybe focusing on the essentials. but we have accidentally started a food counter. For those of you in. are an essential cornerstone to every gorgeous diet.
So for those of you who don't know, these are a fast food chicken nugget that you find in certain branded restaurants that are found globally. Anyway. they're plant-based intellectual nuggets. I've got to make that very clear. so we're having vegan nuggets at this one. So Yannick, tell us about your journey to this point. What brought you into coaching? What brought you into the work you're doing now? Yeah, wow. That's a very complex question. I'm going to try to keep it as short as possible.
I love coaching. what I mean by that, didn't know coaching existed. What I knew is that I want a lot of novelty in my life and that I like to have deep, meaningful conversations. That I'm not someone who makes friends with everybody immediately, but I really like to go into depth with people. the kind of confidential, open, vulnerable space that this kind of conversation opens up just really resonated with me.
I initially had wanted to become a therapist or a counselor, and then I had kind of fallen into positive psychology, which is the scientific study, what's right with people, building on strength, resources, you know, very exciting new science at the time. And then I found out that coaching exists because that science really feeds coaches. then I just immediately resonated so strongly with it.
And then I kind of branched out of positive psychology a little bit into this whole existential landscape that I've kind of found my home in. Because it felt like a really solid yet very flexible way to make sense of my relationship with myself, with other people and with the world. And everybody who I talk to gets the human experience. Right. And it's full of paradox and dilemma and freedom and choice and absurdity and challenges around authenticity and how to make best use of our time.
So within that, I found a way to integrate all of these amazing bits that so many different psychological coaching lenses open up. And then I just really leaned into coaching and helping coaches be better coaches, how to help myself be a better coach. help people deal with really big questions. And I'm quite big picture and I like to help or make people think.
So I really enjoy holding space to allow making connections between the big philosophical questions that are always underneath the surface and what people bring in commonly into coaching rooms. So if you could describe existential coaching in a nugget, we're going back in a vegan nugget. Yeah, bite-sized. It's difficult to capture something as big in a bite-sized, right? I've just come out actually of four days having my head down to write a new book chapter on the topic.
So it's a good time to ask the question because it's all very fresh in my mind. And the conclusion is, it depends who you ask. And the simple answer is it's an approach to coaching that's rooted in philosophy. Mm. the kind of philosophy that helps us to make sense of what it means to be human. Right? What is existence? What does it mean to be human in the world with other people?
And some of these challenges, these inevitable anxieties that we carry around as humans, these tensions, these dilemmas, you know, it's not, it's hard. takes courage to be human and to be authentic and to take a good look at yourself and the world and just, you know, navigate that. instead of running to the simple answers or suppressing things, lying to yourself, selective attention, consciously or unconsciously. It takes guts to have your eyes wide open. Right?
So, that's what existential coaches, that's how they relate to the practice, right? To, to hold a space where people can make sense of their relationships with that and not necessarily have a philosophical conversation in the coaching room, but to be curious about what the philosophy invites us to pay attention to. So there's an invitation to a bigger space. Yeah, most certainly. Bigger, deeper, higher. I mean, depends how you relate to that sort of thing.
But it opens different kinds of doors than the traditional performance oriented work. Yeah. I've been thinking a bit, quite a lot actually, over the last few weeks about that phrase that people say that you can't take someone further in coaching than you've been yourself. And I'm just interested what you think about that. And then I'm also interested about what happens if you shift that to depth rather than work. I have a lot of thoughts about that.
Yeah, so when it really came very front of mind was when I started exploring the intersection between coaching and psychedelics. Because at some point, what was it, 2016, there was some pretty mind blowing research coming out without getting into the whole story of it. It's really shifted a lot for people that hadn't responded to any therapy. really suffered greatly from what they called resistant treatment depression.
And a few preparation sessions, one journey, and then integration in therapy had people be free for the first time in like 20 years from depressive symptoms. I mean, it's just incredible. So my positive psychology, my coaching brain kicked in. And I thought, well, all of this clinical application is great, but... What about people who are not on the clinical end of the spectrum? What about people who are reasonably resourced and they're not looking for healing or fixing things.
They're looking to learn or expand or transcend or, you know, take something from this experience in terms of personal and professional growth. And I knew people were already doing that. So I'm like, let's, let's explore that area. So we are on episode 20 now of a podcast. We created. Like we published a paper in August, was a lot of things happening.
And one thing I've heard a lot from people who came onto the podcast, particularly when I asked them, what do coaches need to know who get into this sort of thing? And they almost all said, you need to have a lot of your own experience, you know? And I'm coming from an existential phenomenological approach, which means I try to not know. while I'm tuning in with someone and I know you're quite aligned with that, right?
This relating to someone in a state of not knowing and then holding space for someone to make say, I don't need to know, I can't know anything about your experience because it's your experience and if I have a very similar experience, it's actually harder to do that. So I get that it's much easier to connect with someone if there is an illusion of you knowing what they're talking about. Right?
If you've gone there, you've been there, you've done that, you understand where they're coming from, you've gone through a divorce, they're going through a divorce, you lost a loved one, they lost a loved one, whatever it might be where you think you've gone there before. So I understand that, yeah, you really haven't, right? But at the same time, you've been in the stadium, you've been in the same arena. So there is a point of connection, which really helps the relationship.
Mm. One of my heroes, Erwin Yalom, famous existential psychotherapist, amazing writer. So if anybody doesn't know that name, look into him. I heard an interview when he was already in his eighties and he said, since he's lost his wife, he works with bereavement much better than he did before. And that really surprised me because for me, he was always such a phenomenological therapist and somebody who to then say, It really helped me to have been there and done that and gone through it.
I think it helps in terms of holding space for somebody at depth with a certain confidence. know, if you've, for example, a colleague of mine, like he faced death several times. He was like almost gone. And he sits with really, really difficult emotions with a sense of ease because he's been there. He's not been in that particular situation that his client is telling him about, but he does, he has sat with huge questions.
And I think in that sense, yes, it really helps to have been there and have been somewhere similar and done something similar, experienced something similar. But when you work phenomenologically and you're not offering something, as a therapist, I don't think you need to have been schizophrenic or have had a schizophrenic episode in order to help people who suffer from that.
Right. So I think whenever we work phenomenologically, yes, it does give you a connection, but in terms of the work, if you're not bringing yourself into that extent, I don't think you need to have been there and done that.
Yeah, it's interesting because I had a conversation about it the other day over coffee with a coach and and I was actually saying to them they're going on a training and they love going deep and I said you need to be careful about how deep you go because you may be being coached by somebody who's not fluent in going that deep. So I think there's a depth matching which you were sort of talking about there that's different from an experience matching. Hmm. Yeah. I think that's true, right?
If you've explored yourself and the world at depth, I think you can hold space until that depth. If you haven't really explored the world in much depth, then I don't know, for me, it's odd to imagine that you're a coach unless you're a very specific kind of coach working at that kind of surface level, which is okay. You know, you... That's why we have trainings that teach you coaching skills in a weekend or two, and then you can offer some value. Right?
So I think there's something about that depth matching. think you called it. I quite like that terminology. Because what I was saying to him was you need to be, this is a metaphor. I said, I just said you need to be really careful about how much you take your clothes off before you discover that your coach didn't. Yeah, I don't know.
Because the most practitioners in therapy, and I think a lot of people who come into coaching at first, they have this protective layer of not revealing who they are, keeping all their clothes on, right? And all tightly zipped up, putting on the mask of the coach, perhaps even though the uniform. You know, and to some extent that's helpful if we, for example, work with what people projecting into us.
And many coaching schools teach you not to give your own opinions, experience, like don't show up as a person basically, but then really it's a relational practice. Or is it? Right? There's some people out there listening who might say, no, it's a, you apply methodologies and you offer a structure and the process for people to do better thinking and it works. Right. But I think the real... We're real? don't know, real doesn't feel right.
But like the work that I love doing, the stuff that really shifts paradigms that tends to happen within a relationship. And we have a lot of research out there that shows that having that relationships as a central piece to the coaching work is a really powerful thing. So yes, I get that there's value in... showing up as a coach and not as a person and all zipped up.
It feels a bit odd for someone to sit there naked in front of you and you're still very protected, but you can still be helping them. But then, is it helpful to have a coach who's fully naked in that metaphorical sense? Because I also seen that in supervision that some coaches have... brought themselves in so much and perhaps a bit early that now it's kind of a little bit about them. So it's a tricky balance to navigate, Yeah, it reminds me of that T.S.
Eliot piece from Can't Remember Which poem, where he said at the still point of the turning world, neither from nor towards. And that's about don't be so far back with your coat zipped up, but also don't be so far in with all your clothes off. Be in that in-between space. Yeah, partnering, right? Partnering, there's a sense of equality in that partnership.
And while you don't have to match every single factor of coaching to be really equal in that eye level, I think there's something around showing up with the same, like in the same arena, right? At the same level. Yeah, and we're talking, aren't we, think, about the human to human interaction and about not being the coach is sorted and the person who's being coached is not, which can often accidentally be how people will receive it.
Yeah. And it's built into one of Carl Rogers' core conditions that, you know, the client is in the state of incongruence and the practitioner has to be in a state of congruence. And well, what does that actually mean? Right. You could use that to say, like all coaches need to have all their ducks in a row. But then it's mismatching, right? I often find that a connection is much stronger when the client realizes that This is also just a person. is not this perfect coach human being.
But then how much of that do you reveal? How do you think about that? Because there's this whole thing in NLP that you need to match your client, right? To build rapport that you're kind of meeting them where they are. And it's not just an NLP thing, right? It's what we just talked about. When somebody comes in quite considerate and slow, Even if you felt quite energized, maybe just go with them and speak their language before you open that up.
But then you could argue that that's kind of inauthentic. If I'm feeling really bubbly and energetic, regardless of the energy that my person has that comes to me, I'm just going to show up as myself. Do you think there's value in matching, even though that's kind of like putting yourself in a, in like in a, in a, in a mood that you hadn't been in? I think that's why they call it a dance, isn't it?
Because for me it's coming together and moving apart and coming together and moving apart as we're working and thinking about this whatever the stuff together. And there's something about how vulnerable do I need to be in order to make this safe space for you. And it's not for me to be so far back that you feel completely on your own.
I laugh to myself sometimes when I'm listening to coaching recordings or hearing coaches talk about coaching, is that some practitioners feel as though they're really distant away from the thinker, that there's a huge divide between them. And then some feel that they're so close, it almost feels like they're sitting on their knee and embracing them. And there's something about distance that really, really matters in our work. And we can't predict what that distance needs to be, can we?
We have to move it. Yeah. My God, I heard a hilarious story from one of my students who's also a therapist. She went to a therapist, a new therapist that she wanted to work with. And that person was so adamant about keeping a very precise distance that when she kind of moved around in her chair and moved like an inch closer, she said, stop. And well, suffice to say that was the last time I saw each other.
But you know, there is a distance that people are comfortable with and that's not something you put into your pre-consultation questionnaire. No, no and that's to do with the work but it's also to do with personal space.
I know someone who's, they're not alive anymore so they won't be listening to this and no one else will know who they are but I used to meet this person socially and their understanding of distance was different from mine and they would move towards me and I'd move away and they'd follow me. Somebody's fallen off a cliff or like a veranda in an Argentinian golf club once because of this. completely freaked out and I'm going, can't function because you're too close.
And every time I move away, you follow me. And in the end, I just thought, I don't want to be with this. But it wasn't a professional relationship. was someone I, well, they were an acquaintance and then they weren't because I couldn't be in dialogue with them because I felt so overwhelmed by them being too close to me. Yeah, I wonder if that translates to zoom, right? Because I've noticed people have like different camera sets up. colleague of mine told me about the California stair, you know.
that's a new one to me. There's also the newsreader position. I've usually quite leaned in, right? If I lean out, like I feel kind of disconnected. And I've always wondered how that may or may not translate to people's experience of you. close to the camera. Sometimes I will say to people, feels like it might be useful for us to have a bit of a distance on this. Are you OK to move back a bit? And then I'll move back and they'll move back. But we've mutually agreed that level of space.
But I think distance on Zoom is, I think it's really interesting. I think there's a lot that works or doesn't work. Yeah, I was wondering about eye contact. And I'm still waiting for the student to maybe do some research on this because it's quite easy to test. Right? In the beginning of the pandemic, I spent so much time thinking and experimenting with a setup where I did this filming project and somebody gave me a teleprompter.
And for first time I read from a teleprompter and I realized, it's basically just a mirror and you could put anything underneath. It's not the sophisticated setup with, you you can just put it like an iPad or a tablet underneath and then use it as a second screen. So I'm like, I just have my zoom window in front of the teleprompter. And then nobody's ever noticed unless I commented on it. You know, right now I'm looking in the camera.
Now I'm looking at you and I think people just got used to that, but I still feel it's got to do something if somebody makes like eye contact.
And you know, if you couldn't test this pretty easily, if you just measure how related somebody feels or how engaged somebody feels with a speaker and you do an experimental study where somebody makes eye contact and another speaker doesn't, or you have the same speaker deliver the same talk with two different, you know, so, you know, I still feel it's got to do something. And I'm waiting for the laptop where the camera sits behind the actual screen. You know, there's got to be.
a camera that you can get that drops down, doesn't it? So that it looks like you're making eye contact. it's a bit odd. I bought these camera modules that are like replacement parts basically, and they just have a little USB cable, but they're mostly like really terrible fisheye cameras, and it just wasn't quite there. But I figured like, you know, in a police interrogation room when you have these one-sided mirrors, that's got to be close as a screen for a laptop. I feel it must already exist.
Why isn't that on the market? Although I had a whole conversation with someone about eye contact today and what was interesting was that they were looking at the camera. But by looking at the camera, they couldn't see the response of the person that they were working with. So it was actually having the opposite effect to the effect that they hoped it was having because it turned into a, although the person received that they were being looked at eye to eye.
Yeah. the relationship wasn't there because... now I'm looking at the camera to make eye contact, but then I only see you peripherally. Right? Yeah. I can I can only see your general movement. Yeah, right. So that's why I still love working with my teleprompter setup. It's the pictures a little bit more blurry, which I don't like because I didn't want to spend like a humongous amount on like a TV proper thing. But like, I still really like that. I haven't set it up for this one.
But like now, then you can actually look at the person and make eye contact. And now, but clients haven't responded to that in any noticeable way for me. No, I wonder what whether it makes a difference because I think that there's something about when we're used to working on zoom, we're used to managing the eye contact as it is rather than expecting it to be the same as it was or is it is when we're in real life in person. It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because it's weird if somebody looks into your eyes during a normal conversation constantly. Like if we're in conversation, we look around, right? My coaching chest, they don't immediately face each other. They face kind of outward, you know? Or we're just interpreting way too much into it and really... knows? One of the things I like about zoom and eye contact is that I can keep full eye contact with the person that I'm working with without them feeling that I'm staring them out.
So for me, I get more data than I would face to face because it's, yeah, it's less uncomfortable. Yeah, I quite like it when there's some camera issue with my client and we just decided to take it audio. Because I've done a fair bit of coaching on the phone, but it just kind of stopped since everybody's so familiar with video calls. But you just sharpen other senses and some clients, really helps them to be with themselves more because I don't want them to feel seen this whole time.
I mean, there's a It's nice to feel seen and that's part of the value that I think coaching provides for many people. But I think some just need to have a really good conversation with themselves. And sometimes my image is just distracting. If I'm sitting there looking at them, they're much more likely to break the silence and give me something because they think I'm expecting that. If they forget for a little while that I'm on the other end of the line, I think that would be great.
So now we need a new name for this position. So this is the side of the screen position. Because I'll often do that actually and really give them the space that they need without feeling they have to look at me. And then I'll come back when they're ready. That's quite nice. Interesting. And is that conscious or did that just happen? Well, how did we learn everything? I think the first few times we did it subconsciously and then we thought, that's an interesting thing to do. Let me do that again.
Yeah, I have that when I described this tuning in and tuning out motion and existential coaching that I got from, I think Monica Hannaway, first I heard her first use the terms in mediation, where tuning in, you're just really with the client. You're really in their world. You're bracketing everything that you know or you think you know, having everything nice in your box and the box tucked away in the corner of the room. It might rattle.
You just keep the lid on, just really being with somebody else's experience. And then at some point just... almost physically tune out and not tune out as in the common sense understanding, but this leaning back, this allowing your box to open and your resources to flow out. And do I have an experience or a story or a tool or a line of inquiry or a methodology or a powerful question I've read somewhere?
Is there something from my own experience that I can tap into that might be really helpful in this? Yeah. And this to embody this tuning in back and forth is quite helpful. More difficult with microphones involved. What do I see from a distance? Or what do you see from a distance that you didn't see when we were face to face? Can I go back to the audio question? Do you close your eyes when you're working at audio only or do you have them open? I have them open. I occasionally close my eyes.
When do I do that? In moments when I feel I really want to get into something and not have any sort of distraction through that sense. But I usually have my eyes open. Often I stand up, I found. And yeah, just kind of walk around a little bit. I close my eyes unless I'm outside. because it helps me to see. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that makes perfect sense, right? You take that sense away that you no longer need to focus more of your mental energy on where the information is coming from.
Yeah. But what we're talking about is how much focus is enough, isn't it? And how much is too much. Yeah, well, people talk about presence in a way that's often, I think, misleading because so many coaches seem to understand presence as giving somebody else a hundred percent of your presence when it really incorporates so much more than just noticing what the other person is doing, saying how they're moving, sounding.
It also includes you and what's going on for you in this relationship because you're part of that space. And it also includes what happened in the past. what they desire for the future. there's a hundred, like the presence is so much more than what it's made out to be. So yeah. because it's the being together. Yeah, and the less information you have, the more you can be present with the information that you're getting.
We did a great game on our presence course last week where the improv, we use an improv teacher to help us get better at presence. And he got us just to stand in a line and look at the people on the other side. This was in person and look at people on the other side of the room and just connect was fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. How far were you apart? three meters yeah yeah yeah yeah And what was it like to connect at a distance where I'm assuming you're not talking at that point?
No talking. Well, what's interesting is that you go between discomfort and comfort. And part of that, think, in the debrief was, what am I supposed to be doing? You're not supposed to be doing anything. You're just supposed to be being there. Yeah, same with meditation exercises, right? Where, now give me some guidance, I need purpose, I need to know what to do, I need clear instructions, tell me how to do this and I'll do it well.
I also loved, I didn't have connecting at a distance, but what I always did in foundational coach training was look at, like just make eye contact, with each other and you're not allowed to speak, you're not allowed to move, just look at each other and how long one minute can feel. You know, people describe that similar interplay between comfort and discomfort. And it seems like people can't stop communicating. They tell tons of stories with their eyes and with their body.
And like there were people having a full blown conversation and they were not supposed to communicate. I mean, they didn't use any words, you know, their face just told all sorts of stories. Transmit, receive. How interesting. Yeah. And I think it's a wonderful mirror to how you sit with yourself, how you sit with other people, the amount of assumptions we're making when nothing is being communicated. That's incredible.
Yeah, and then that really builds, doesn't it, to how many assumptions are we making when something is being communicated? Yeah, wow. really does sit at the core of existential practice, but also, know, humanistic practice, person centered, Gestalt. There's a lot about bracketing your own assumptions and bracketing what you think you know, and keeping that firmly in your box.
mean, most coaches will do that to some extent, unless they're really leaning into the mentoring consulting element of their work. You know, but like, I think in the, the face of AI, this will be the huge shift for coach training that any coach training will probably have to focus a lot more on these relational coaching approaches because that's what makes human coaching stick out. Yeah, the soul to soul versus the question to answer. Yes, indeed.
Right. Because AI without knowing something, that's going to be odd. You know, there's some really interesting methodologies. We had an AI supervisor in the coaching lab this month, and it was actually quite amazing what a coach can have access to after every single session that they do or if they wake up three o'clock in the morning.
And Rebecca, the trainer and creator of Eliza.ai, she prompted a chat GPT on the basis of EMCC supervision competencies and the seven night model for coaching for supervision. And it was really quite amazing at the value of reflective space that it was offering. Of course, there's lots of things wrong with it still and it's still interrupted and it gave some advice, really good advice, even though it wasn't supposed to. Hey, shall we brainstorm? I'm like brainstorm with an AI is quite the storm.
Obviously, the human had no turn in this, but... It spit out within a couple of seconds, like 10 really relevant points of inquiry with an example of how it could be phrased from a coaching end. And this was a very experienced coach working with a CEO client. know, and he said, that was, mean, it was a bit of a storm at me rather than storming together, which, you know, is that really supervision? Obviously not, but many coaches look to their supervisor also for guidance.
So in supervision, it's much more common. that the supervisor would offer some guidance than it is in coaching. And they were qualitatively, well, really, really surprisingly good, I gotta say. And it started with a seven-eyed model, but then just kind of left it behind and did something else because it was just going with the flow of the conversation. So, you know, and six months earlier when we had a coaching AI in the lab, it was very different story.
Mm. Mm. This will be something for especially new coaches, not very experienced coaches who are still following methodologies and not quite leaning into the relational space and the human element. That will be an issue, right? Because especially in organizational coaching, companies will hire subscriptions to AI coach bots, definitely, just because of the price. So C-suite will always get the human touch.
But you know, if you're an ACC or working towards it, you've got some work to do in order to stay relevant. that's, know, people were concerned about, it going to replace coaches? No, it's not going to replace coaches, but the coaches who follow strict methodologies and worked to apply a process that will probably be done better by an AI. If not now, then soon. Yes, indeed. Yeah. What are you and your thinking around AI? Have you had any run-ins with it? I mean, I agree with you.
I think that we need to be in the art of coaching because if we're in a transactional way of asking question, question, answer. So I think some of the things that are unique about the human are, as you say, the human to human connection, but also timing, being dissonant, know, disturbing the flow. You talked earlier about matching, but sometimes... dissonance is the thing that unlocks things.
So unpredictability, although they'll probably be able to teach bots unpredictability, but it will still be predictable unpredictability. It really bugged me that the AI, the most like the AIs that I have talked to so far wouldn't challenge me.
It wouldn't really, I'm sure it can be trained, but like it was like, it was part of what I didn't like so much about positive psychology when I was really deep in positive psychology, that there was a lot of positive psychologists that were a bit too positive, you know?
And I really needed... I really personally, I really need someone to call me out when there's a logical fallacy or when something doesn't make sense or when I say something now and I said something different yesterday or the week before last month. Something doesn't quite add up or somebody gets a sense that I remember one of my very first coach at some point, he leaned back and he said, Janik, I hear the words that you're saying, but I somehow just don't believe you.
And then he leaned back and I was like, and then I realized that there's actually something to that. And it came from a sense, right? It was a sense that was boldly shared. And it really allowed me to see that I had been fabricating a story to some extent. And we had asked the question and I gave him the story and I had repeated it so often it was mine. So... And sharing that kind of sense, that's something that AI is, I mean, I can't see how that would work.
It's, but then things that aren't imaginable become a reality. Like what? 10, 15 years from now is like 30, 40 years in the future, in the past, you know, this exponential development. you think 50 years in the future, that's like 200 years ago, that means no cars. And can you imagine? cars when there's no cars. you imagine Tesla self-driving person sitting there, chatting to their family on zoom that are all over the world? Can you imagine that 200 years ago? I don't think you can imagine that.
So what can we not imagine right now that coaches will be doing in just 15, 20 years time? That's mind boggling to me. We were doing a quiz in the newspaper on Saturday and it said when was the internet invented? And to think now that, you know, it's less than 30, well 30 years ago, isn't it? Well, less than 30 years. Yeah, like 40 years. Yeah. But I can remember when my kids were born, I didn't even have a mobile phone. yeah, I had my first mobile phone when I was like 15, I think.
People were playing snake, started texting under the table. I'm like, Ooh, so cool. can text under the table. Yeah. So as we begin to round up, Yannick, I have a question, which is, how do you describe yourself to people who come to you for coaching who don't know what existential means? Yeah, it really depends who's asking, right? If I would just put a general thing out, I would probably say something along the lines that I said in the beginning, even though it comes out differently each time.
But I try to relate what I do in relation to who I've been talking to. Because if you listen first, then all the doors are open, you can speak their language. I might use a metaphor of something that they're into. You know, if I know what they're passionate about and they know quite a lot, I can run with that. can, you know, make it, make it understandable in a way that is most likely to reach them. Yeah, that's a beautifully round the edge answer.
So Yannick, if people want to pick up this conversation with you, how do they contact you? Yeah. For coaches, probably the best is rocketsupervision.com. That's my website for coaches. There tons of resources on there. We just released a big starter kit for coaches, which I'd love to spread the word around because my business partner had asked me for a few lead magnets. to grow the email list and I had given her an entire encyclopedia of everything I've ever created for new coaches.
And I'd caused some internal friction and a lot of work. But in the end, I kind of put my foot down and I said, hey, this is kind of legacy kind of stuff. We have like 40, 50 episodes of our podcast that are directly related to questions that are often your coaches asking. There's all these nuggets that I wrote and all of these resources, models and... blog posts and like just have a little browse. This is an extensive set for, for people who are feeling new to this, that that's on there.
otherwise exactly. Otherwise we're on the coaching lab. once a month, go coaching lab.com, where you can just see coaching demos. I felt it was important and you might've seen that too, that it's rare that you get a good demo of a real session with proper critical analysis afterwards. Now there's a bunch on YouTube, it's still, usually you don't really get the good stuff afterwards. It's just like somebody trying to look good. So I wanted to change that.
We now have a vault of over 50 sessions where we have 45 minutes of demo, 45 minutes of conversations, and then we give people a chance to practice. And obviously existential.coach is where my private practice is. The big questions. Fantastic. Well, Yannick, thank you for coming to the Coaching Inn. It's been a delight. And for bringing nuggets. Hahaha, yes. When do you bring nuggets to a hotel visit? I guess you gotta really love nuggets. Yeah, exactly.
So thank you everyone for listening and we'll be back next week with another episode. Bye bye.