S5 Episode 21: The Podcast Corner with Candida Javaid

Ha ha ha! Hello and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn, which is like the Book Corner, but it's the Podcast Corner, thanks to a little bit of inspiration from my friend, Feb, on LinkedIn. And so we're going to be talking to Candida Javaid about podcasts she loves in our space. First of all, do subscribe or follow if you love The Coaching Inn. That would make a really big difference to us.

Also, if you want to be super, super lovely, if you can put a review on where you listen to your podcast posts, that would be amazing. And if you could share it with another person, that would be even more amazing. So, Candida, you're a coach and a podcast lover.

I am, I have been a podcast lover for a very long time. you. Amazing. So why don't we start with the coaching and then we'll hear all about the podcasting love. So tell us a little bit about your coaching journey. So I actually, my coaching journey started a long time ago. Like the proper coaching journey started about 20 years ago when I was working together with a systemic coach back in Germany. And I just, he was a friend of mine, but we then did a bit of work together.

And that's where I found out about that thing, coaching and where I also received coaching. which then actually led to me, within a few coaching conversations, making the decision to move to the UK. That was the outcome of a coaching conversation. Then I actually didn't do huge amounts with coaching itself. I always was interested in the systemic piece.

The majority of books that I read in that time was really about systemic coaching and how to see the world from a systems perspective and try to get my head around that. But I became a teacher actually. So I worked as a teacher and then at some point I actually stepped into leadership and there we then did coaching with the staff. so I... It was really like, okay, I love this coaching thing because it does such great stuff.

But also it was already very well established in that school where I was working. So we did that and it was for the teachers we worked with, it felt always like that. It just really empowered them to navigate the challenges of their work. And then... I did that and then I over the time I then left kind of I left that school.

I moved to Oxford because I got married to my husband and so I stepped back into the classroom and again the coaching was there but it wasn't there and then at one point I really decided you know what I just actually I always I always return to it. I always seek coaching as something that helps me. I need to do that. So I retrained and I checked out what I really wanted. And this friend of mine in the past, he was ICF trained.

So I thought like, you know what, I'll just go with an organization that prepares me for the ICF credentialing because I really liked their work as well, what they do. so last year I stepped out of the classroom and here I am.

Wow, thank you, that's a great thing to hear. What got you hooked on podcasts, Candida? Again, I need to go back a long time because I was a very, very annoyingly early riser as a child. So I got up like a lot of children, I assume, at five o'clock in the morning and way before I was able to read. And my parents were very cunning. My father was a psychologist. And so they just thought like, OK, what do we do? And they gave me audio books to listen to.

Nice. So my whole childhood, would listen, I would explore the world through listening. And so I did that. So I I loved reading, but the listening to it and actually just walking whilst you're listening to something or being in the space or just moving around, that really helped me as well. So I, they would just say, if I would try to wake them up in the morning and I would say like, just, don't you listen to something?

Until this became a habit and ever since I listened to podcasts or like ever since I listened to audio stuff and then when podcasts came in at first I didn't quite know what they were but I started listening to podcasts probably I would say maybe 50 I started tapping into them 15 years ago but I properly started listening to them I would say in like like about 10 years ago that I then sought them out and I think the first podcast I ever listened to was Coaching for Leaders.

So that is really the first one where I then got really hooked on it and stayed with it. Isn't it interesting that you describe a journey of being formed as a listener? Because we often talk about children, don't we, and we go, you know, they were formed early as a reader.

And you were formed early as a listener. I wonder what that does to your coaching. I like that question because I have in my reflections thought about that as well, but I've never verbalized that. I do think because I am very good with just sitting there and just receiving the information and then just seeing what that does to me that that potentially will influence me in a way. Coaching always felt like something that was quite easy.

And maybe that was also the reason why I didn't go to it, because it felt so easy. Now, I have to say, it's not that easy, obviously, but it is really hard work to do it well and to learn and to grow and to stay in that space. If you just take everything away and just focus on the listening, then actually I have to say that that part I found always quite easy. Interesting. I'm going to introduce you to Oscar Trimboli because I think he'd be really interested to have a conversation with you.

I would love to. know him, I know often because obviously he has been on Coaching For Leaders as well. So yes, I love his work. It's fantastic. the listening, the villains, listening villains, he calls them, doesn't he? So it's It's great work. had a very interesting conversation because he says, when we're in conversation, we hear, and sense, which is exactly what I say. But I say, see, hear, sense. So there's an interesting dialogue going on between us about whether that's actually different.

I hear, see, I sense. Is that different from I see, I hear, sense? And where are you at the moment with your thinking? I wonder if it is different. I wonder whether it comes from us, which is our preference or which is our strongest one. I don't know. Well, you know, it's this whole idea around the way, like what we are exposed to and what we do and with what we are surrounded, that forms us. So every piece of information that we get, that will shape us as who we are.

And if we access the world a lot through listening or through, you know, like seeing things. going out there, you know, being very aware. We talked about sunsets yesterday in my coaching class and we talked about, you know, one of them said like, let's just think about what kind of a sunset we would be if we were a sunset. And I hadn't thought of that, but one of them just kind of said like, shall we do that?

And then they all went around and said like, I'm this kind of sunset and I am not a sunset, I'm a sunrise. And then... I am not a sunset. I don't think I am a sunset. So again, what people see, what they notice.

How interesting. So what is it about podcasts, apart from the fact that it's your preference in how you process information, what is it that makes you such an addict? podcast app I used to use that I really loved was Podcast Addict, which I really found super useful because it really helps you to build your library of podcasts. what makes me... I have always loved learning. Like in our household, bookcases were normal and actually my parents sitting on the sofa and reading was just normal.

It was... That was just what happened. know, Sunday afternoon, people spend reading or in the evenings, people spend reading. So books and literature and learning was always part of what we did as a family. And so the learning piece is is has always loved academia and I've always but I've always found it quite daunting. Because if you try to access these quite difficult texts, you know, it's like you try to battle with philosophical texts.

I found it always so hard that I just stepped away from them very often. At the moment, I'm really re-experiencing this whole thing around and revisiting those texts that I came across when I did my masters in Germany. But now through listening, which is so much easier to actually then process for me. So it's the learning thing. I can learn and that's how I approach all my podcast listening.

So I sit there with a pen and my book or I record a quick voice note after like when I've listened to something. I try to make connections. So I try to build a web of podcasts. So I know how they are connected. I often go to look at where are people talking. So for example, you, where on which different podcasts have you talked? And then I use that information to try out the podcasts that I didn't know to say, is that something I like listening to? That's how I use them.

I like to, for example, learn more about individual people like you or Marcia Reynolds or Marion Franklin or Tony Latimer. There are all these people that I just kind of follow around and just see what they're doing and how they're working to get a sense of their idea. And then there are other podcasts that interview. a really rich range of people, which is the starting with coaching, Coaching For Leaders.

So Dave Stachowiak, how he is working with people, has fascinating people as well, but from a different world. It's not necessarily the coaching world. It's really he, his ecosystem is even further wider in a way. Yeah. So he brings other people in as well. But there There is, if you really look, are a lot of connections there. So, Mike, to go back to your question, why am I, what I find so addictive about it is that it's something where I always walk away and I learn, like it enriches me.

It's interesting because you as you were talking, it made me realize something which I sort of have been realizing over the last few weeks and now I know it. you So when Elaine Lin Herring came to The Coaching Inn, I'd listened to her audiobook and it was beautiful to move from listening to her reading the audiobook to having the conversation with her live in the room. And on Sunday, I chaired a session at the Malvern Festival of Ideas with a guy called Michael Scott, who's an archaeologist.

And he did a talk called X Marks the Spot on a book he's written. Now I'm not that... I didn't think I was that interested in archaeology, but I found what he said fascinating. And then when I had to do the plug for the book at the end, the piece of paper I'd been given said, read or listen to Michael's book, X marks the spot. And I thought, actually, that's fascinating because I've heard him talk. I now love to hear him read his book.

because it's in the same genre, whereas I might not choose to read his book myself, I would love to hear him telling me his book. And yeah, I didn't know that until that moment, so thank you. they are with you aren't they? know these things are just with you. There's it's it's an additional layer of of like connectivity so if you just read yes that is it is beautiful I'm reading at the moment please don't ask me for the author but it's called Wintering. yes, I know the cover.

I don't know the author but I know which book you're talking about. I'm just about halfway through and I love it. And I read Orbital just before that, but I read them. But my friend had listened to Orbital and she said like, yeah, it's this Welsh actress and it's really nice to listen to her. And I thought like, oh, okay, I assume it probably Orbital would have really benefited from me listening to it because the reading part, I probably didn't get into that swing. I loved it. It was good.

It was really good. But I have to say, Wintering is a book that I, and I'm reading it on paper, like on my Kindle. And again, I like that technology part there because I can then highlight sections. So I then can take them out more easily and work with them because I think you know that I then tend to bring ideas together. So pretty much all the stuff I'm writing online is I always try to bring two ideas together. and then reflect on that.

what happens if I take that idea from there and that idea and then what happens if I just place them next to each other maybe. As an author, I love Kindle. There's a coach called Allard de Jong and he said you should read Simplifying Coaching on Kindle because you'll be able to see the bits that people like because they've highlighted

them. And that was such a gift. Anyway, back to podcasts. there you are. He is, yeah. podcast is also that he does with Georgina Woudstra. It's just beautiful as well. So, He's also a poet, I think. okay. So what were the criteria that you used to make your list that you've brought today? I actually haven't brought a list. I just have all my podcasts there.

You know, I just, think the reason why you connected with me as well was because I just had published my, my list for 2024 that I had listened to. I, the criteria for that creating or curating that list for me was, okay, what, what has a relation to coaching for me? So what are coaching areas that I'm interested? in. And so that is, let's say I started off with the Coaching For Leaders. I then went to Tom Henschel's podcast, The Look and Sound of Leadership.

And if people don't know that, that is a gorgeous podcast. I don't know if you've heard of him on his podcast. He's an actor. and he brings coaching conversations, but he acts them. So he brings scenarios from coaching conversations and then he explains what people might do with that. And it is incredibly rich. They're very rare. So they only, I think they come out once a month only.

it's, but they are... exceptionally well done and his script is very good and it's just him, it's just him talking but it's very beautiful.

So starting off from those two, so I kind of got a sense what I really liked and then somebody recommended to me the Joel Monk's Coaches Rising podcast, I'm just digging in my brain, so the Joel Monk and his podcast is exceptional for the reason that he actually, like A, he has become, like you can sense his journey that he's going on, but he really interviews people that are not necessarily that well known, but that really contribute to his field that he is interested in.

So, and I have learned so much again from the people that he's interviewed and he has a very calm, podcasting style, if you want to call that. So I think he tends to or he tended to be more in the background and really allowed the people to shine that he interviewed. They all do that, actually.

I think all of the podcasts I enjoy show a huge amount of respect where there's a huge amount of respect between the people and the valuing of people's ideas and I feel that they are also quite spacious as well, that there is time for the listener as well to be present in that conversation. So you are also like in The Coaching Inn, know, like it's like we take a chair and sit.

I always imagine taking like a wobbly chair that you have in the pub, know, that is like uncomfortable, but you sit in the wobbly chair because you just actually want to be there. You take that discomfort here because it is just a beautiful conversation where you just listen in and think like, okay, that's happening. okay. So, and what emerges in the conversation. So the title actually really captures as well what you are. Like what I, like for me, like, I don't know what you want to do with it.

I would be curious, but what I feel if I go to The Coaching Inn, what I would want to expect there, this Okay, let's get together in a little bit in an old pub, know, one of the reasons why I came to the UK to just have these kind of like, I love the countryside here and I to work in more than I used to live in the area, yes. And so it's really beautiful. So I very often see as well what I think that you are seeing maybe. How interesting, do you want to know the secret?

Yes. really early on when I started knowing I was a coach in the late 1990s when I first heard the word coaching you know if you buy a yellow car you suddenly see that everything is yellow all the cars are yellow there's a yellow car I started to see words words that had coaching in them and I noticed that I was often out walking and you'd see a place called The Coach House And then I noticed one day we were out and about and noticed that there was a pub called The Coaching Inn.

And I started a newsletter called The Coaching Inn that went on for about one, one or two things. wasn't, it wasn't, because I was running, I had already had my newsletter that people can subscribe to if you want to, via the website. But I already had that. And I just thought this other one was more for leaders. So I started this thing called The Coaching Inn and it was ridiculous. But the phrase, the word was just there and it was there for 20 years. And I didn't do anything with it.

I just thought that's a lovely, I really like that, The Coaching Inn. It just has a feel about it. And then when we started a podcast, I still didn't make the connection. So we started talking about doing a podcast. One of my colleagues started researching where are the best, you know, the best kit, the best place to sit it and everything else. Then we said, well, what are we going to call it? at which point I remembered. And suddenly it all came in.

And then of course, once you've got the mood, then you inhabit the mood. So for me, were some deal breakers. I will not give you questions in advance. It is not an interview. It's a conversation. And a friend of mine who's a sound person, said that the first time he listened to The Coaching Inn, he was disappointed about the silences. He was really annoyed about the silences because he said, you should take the silences out, they're not professional.

And now when he listens to it, he says, it's the silences that I love. Which feeds back to what you said earlier about joining in with the processing and listening. Because without the silence, you're not going to be able to have space to think.

So that's the kind of story of The Coaching Inn and I'm glad you like it. Yes, I do. I love it. it's because it is again unique and different. So I heard somebody say the other day, don't if you want to find your way in coaching, don't do what everybody else is doing. Because you're not like, yes, it might be okay, but you are not necessarily adding new value and think about it what you want to do. So There are so many different podcasts.

I just mentioned Coaches Rising and then The Coaches Journey. That is a really sweet podcast as well. The two of you know each other as well, don't you? My word, my brain is now, I think my brain is getting tired now. I'm so good with trying to remember the names and now I can't. Robbie, yeah, Robbie. Robbie Swale, yeah. So he is, he has all the energy and he is excited about stuff and he, the way he talks is just, yeah, how they actually are themselves in there.

or at least the persona that they kind of try to show. I think what's important as well is that there seems to be, or there needs to be some sort of consistency in podcasts, in those podcasts. If they want to try out something new, absolutely fine. Yeah. But take the listener with you and then that's it. So. We have a little secret plan. Well, it's not a dream, not a plan. Or it's a crazy idea. I think one day Robbie and I might do a live podcast outside in the hills.

That might be too many things. It might be that we have to do a recorded podcast in the hills because to get it live and to do it outside might be a step too far. But we have a plan to be able to invite you on a walk with us almost. Yeah, the walks are lovely. I would love to join them at some point, like really join you. So that's also just such a good idea again to be outside and the Malvern Hills are spectacular, they?

My classroom used to be at the bottom of the Malvern Hills and it was a 1950s building and the whole side of the classroom was glass and I could see the Malvern Hills. That's how I taught German every day. It was amazing. And now I know where you taught. because you can see that school from the top of the hills, from some of the places. Yeah, great. So The Coaches Journey. What other ones? So I also like transactional analysis. So there are a few as well.

And I would like to mention Ross McIntosh, who is again very unique in the way he's talking. He is lovely and his father, obviously. So if somebody knows of the podcast, his father always sends out the bookmarks. So I also have a bookmark. He is really, really beautiful in the way he just explains transaction analysis. So that's really good. And if I just maybe jot my brain memory a little bit, if I just look. Yeah. can you look and can I talk at the same time?

I've already opened my file so I can see it here. Yeah, but please. It's a great way to test out whether you want to learn with somebody. So years ago, when I got my MCC credential, I had a drink in a pub in London with Aboodi Shabi who's a great coach. And he said to me, what's the next piece of development you're going to do? And I said, I don't know. And he said, stop doing courses. Find somebody that you want to learn from and follow them.

So you might end up doing courses with them, but you'll be following somebody that you'll be choosing a teacher, and then you'll be engaging with that teacher. And the way you're describing these different people is just a beautiful trailer for saying, if you're looking for a teacher, check out some podcasts, and then you're going to find somebody, and then you can pay money to do their course. you get a sense of who they are, you you get a sense how the different schools are working.

So Animas, the Animas podcast, for example, you get a sense of how they're working. So then I think team coaching is another area that I love. So there is the game of teams as well, which is I really recommend that.

And then there is one that is totally different to a lot of the podcasts I'm listening to, which is Jennifer England's Tension of Emergence, which is just if you want to have something for your soul, if you just want pure beauty in just somebody who thinks about the world in a very, very beautiful way. linking back to what you said about a teacher, like if you... if I would think like, if I would go with somebody who I would like to teach me, so she would definitely be somebody.

I would really feel like, that's, it's not the place at the moment in my life now, but she's definitely worth it. Like, yes, she is, she has that kind of way of her being, I think that is something that I would love to understand better of how to do that.

So yeah, but there are, obviously we could talk for ages about it. I don't know if you want more podcasts because I'm probably not mentioning like half of the podcasts that I love. that might be enough because one of the issues like books is that one of you lovely listeners has written down every single one of those or taken them out of the show notes and will have listened to them all by the end of the day and that might be too many. Because pace matters doesn't it? I think.

And it matters to build that ecosystem for yourself. I think you are totally right. know, it doesn't, there's no point in listening to everything at the same time because you need to digest. And, you know, some podcasts I, I might have just ignored at the beginning. I listened to one episode and I thought like, that's not what I need at the point, at this point. But then I returned to them and then I started like loving them or

really following them. So, but I have to also maybe add that the podcast apps, and I think that might have been clear through a few of the blog posts that I've written, podcast apps are really crucial. And in an ideal world, I would probably like to write my own podcast app where I can say what I really need there to be. Because I think a lot of them, do, each one of them does really good stuff. But not all of them, there's not a single one that does everything together.

Because if you want to use it in a more academic way, you want to be able to track it a little bit better what you've done and download lists. And that is quite tricky at times to really get your head around that, to do that. So what's your favourite at the moment? You mentioned Podcast Addict earlier, does that still exist? It does exist, but it's on Android, so I can't listen to that at moment because I've went back to an iPhone recently. So, and there I checked them out.

There is Overcast. So I don't have a favorite one at the moment. There's Overcast and there's Pocket Casts. At the moment I've landed with Pocket Casts, but I find myself regularly going back to the Mac app. because what they do is they give you transcripts. And I very much love having transcripts so I can, again, read along with them and maybe pull out things and write them down and I see them.

So I don't always have to go back because sometimes I listen to podcasts and I haven't written it down and then I can't find it anymore. And I can tell you that is highly irritating. Yesterday I decided to try out the new Google, I think it's called NoteTaker. And so at the end of this podcast, I'm going to put the whole transcript through NoteTaker and get it to create Candida's Top 10. See what that looks like. Is that like Notebook LM? Okay, yeah, that is so much fun.

Well, I have played with it already. I did promise my colleagues I wouldn't play with it too much, but I thought if I used it properly, then I'd be allowed to play. Yeah. So I love using that and my husband has a son who's doing A-levels at the moment and I said to him just put some of the texts that you have to study in there and just get it to generate a podcast for you so you can listen to it. So the children in school are using it.

He didn't know of that but he knew that children were using technology to generate questions for their own exam preparation. I think that is a really good way for them to learn as well.

But yeah, it's quite clever what it does, isn't it? I think so, so let's see what it does. So what an absolute delight to have you come to The Coaching Inn. And I love that we've really, that our recommendation bit is quite small in relation to a much deeper conversation, which I know would have got people thinking. Yes, and everybody has to explore their own world. think what would be useful is if you're interested in getting into it, find one and then try to follow the breadcrumbs.

What is somewhere else and what is somewhere else? So Dave Stachowiak and Tom Henschel, what they always do and some others do that now as well, that they refer to other podcasts that people then can go to. So I think Tom Henschel actually came up with that idea and then Dave Stachowiak took that over. So that is really useful because then you can, you have to build your own ecosystem.

Because I can't, I can tell people what I like and, they can just go to my blog and read what I really like because that's there. know, then I talk about it. So where do people find your blog Candida? It's candidajavaid.co.uk. My blog is there. And then obviously on YouTube as well. great and I'm sure people will be in touch. So thank you Candida for coming to The Coaching Inn today. Thank you so much, Claire. It's so lovely to finally meet you in person.

and hopefully I'll meet you on the hills for a walk. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. thank you and thank you everyone for listening and we'll be back next week with another episode. Bye bye. Bye.