Hello and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn. I'm your host, Claire Pedrick, and today it's my pleasure to be hosting an open table for a bunch of wonderful coaches on the subject of notes or no notes. If this is your first listen, do subscribe or follow so that you could get every episode as they download. we've just got a bargain going on in our supervision community and we'd love you to come. to the supervision community.
So if you check in the show notes, there's a link for you to join it for a month free so you can give it a bit of a go. Also, I have cooking up an open day at the Coaching Inn We're just trying to figure out the tech and then you'll be getting an invitation because we'd love to meet all our lovely listeners for you to just drop in and out as you wish and I'll do something else while there's nobody in the pub.
So. Welcome to the Coaching Inn, George Warren, Sarah Scarratt, Laura Wong, Michael Kelly, Sandra Whiles and Jenny Sharp. George, this was your idea. Tell us a bit about you and tell us about your idea, your thought. Well, thank you, Claire. Hello, everyone. And hello to everyone listening. So I am an executive coach and I also do a lot of training of coaches and supervision and mentor coaching coaches. And I write and talk a lot about coaching as well.
And I'm very grateful, Claire, to you and all that you've done for the profession and the world of coaching. And this came from a message. that I put out to the community of coaches on LinkedIn, really a question really around, do you take notes? Do you not? And what are the implications for the quality of the coaching and for the quality of your presence and connection if you are taking notes and scribbling away? And it ignited a beautiful, rich and diverse banquet.
of comments and including an invitation to talk about it with you Claire. So here I am today at the inn ready to feast and chew the fat if I can mix and join metaphors there. The metaphors are great. Let's see who wrote them down.
Thank I'm really grateful to you George actually, because you made what happened after that post was that I got serious and contacted our insurance company to speak to a real life human being who could actually give me some proper real information because there's a lot of myth around around what's okay and what isn't okay. So there's what's useful and what's not useful. And then there's what's what's diligent and what isn't diligent and not everything that we hear is true.
So Thank you to you for instigating my conversation with the lovely Celia, who told me a lot of really great things, but more of that later. So, Jenny, hello, give us a couple of lines about you. Yes, of course. Thank you, Claire. It's absolutely lovely to be here. And thanks, George, for that inspirational post on LinkedIn that I responded to. why I'm so yeah, I'm a career coach and have been working for just the last couple of years in that facility and capacity.
And what brought me here was I also do some counselling. And the kind of strict rules I've got with counselling is you don't take notes. And I do normally take notes in coaching. And so I was faced with a bit of a conundrum and I thought, what's, what's going on?
Why do I do one in one capacity and one in the other when they're both therapeutic relationships and they both require you to be able to do some mirroring and some reflections back to your clients so they understand and they feel like they're being listened to. So I just wondered what it is about that that makes it different for me, whether it's something to do with trust or whatever. Interesting, well thank you and welcome Jenny. Sandra, tell us about you.
Thanks Claire and really great to be here. So I'm Sandra, I live in Leicestershire and I have a label as business and leadership coach but I do a bit of everything and I've really struggled with actually what it is that I exactly do. I think I'm more sitting with the, I'm actually a thinking partner for the people that trust me enough to come and spend space with me.
So the bit around notes is really interesting because sometimes that's an advisor, sometimes that's a challenger, sometimes that's like a coach and so that. And alongside that, I do a couple of things supporting independent coaches. So I produce a newsletter and I support a community called the Coaches Gathering around business development. I'm currently writing a book, so great to be here. and I have a pen at hand so yeah. Great.
I had a conversation with somebody this morning and he said, he said, did you notice I just took notes? He said, since he, since COVID, he never used to take notes, but now he works entirely online. He does take notes because he said, what happens below the screen stays below the screen, which I thought was really funny because actually, yeah, well, we can talk about why that's really funny in a minute. Michael, hello. Hi Claire, I'm Michael Kell. I've been coaching for about 18 months.
I'm interested in notes, from my perspective, what I used to do. So I spent a lot of my first career, over 35 years taking notes and my relationship to notes evolved in that. Context over that time. So I have a bit of sort pre I guess like a lot of us I have previous Which I suppose is lurking in the background And then there's no taking in the context of coaching and I I guess like Maybe like others.
I've just gone back and forward To you know whether to do it at all when it's a good idea when it's not so I think For me, it's sort of becoming a little bit clearer But in terms of what I think my own guide rails are on this, I'm very interested to maybe have those challenge and hear how other people navigate this particular aspect of things. Fabulous, thank you Michael, welcome. Sarah! So I was laughing during George's introduction because he was talking about feasts and banquets.
And just before this session started, I was confessing to eating a huge piece of Stollen, which I haven't finished. here. And excuse me, because I'm going to continue once I finish this intro. I'm a clean language coach and I pay exquisite attention to the words, body language, gestures that people use. And I do take notes basically as an aid memoir so that I remember exquisitely what people have said.
And I saw this invitation to come to this conversation just at the same time as I was noticing that I never refer back to my notes. So I take notes during the session, use them during the session, but then I never look at them again. And so it just sparked a curiosity, which is why I'm here. Great Sarah, thank you. And Laura, Laura Wong, hello. Hello everybody. Hello Claire, hello George, everybody else. Pleasure to be here.
I am also a career coach and I have fairly recently set up my practice in the last eight months or so and trained at the AOEC, which I know George you are heavily involved with and have really focused on not taking notes right from the early stages of doing my coaching diploma and It was only really having come out of that process, feeling quite happy with that, that then sort of branching out a little bit, it feels like there is this very much notes or no notes.
So I'm fascinated to hear people's take on it. I take very few notes in sessions with clients. I make a few words to remind myself of what's happened during the session. And then, so what Sarah was saying, then put them away. Perhaps then before I start the next session, we'll then... refresh my memory, but yeah, to really be present in the moment, I really try not to take notes during the session. Thank you very much. Thank you. So here we are.
So George, can you just give us the kind of nuggets of the conversation on your LinkedIn feed? Well, one of the clarifications I offer Claire and to everyone listening and that hasn't got the wider context is that there are perhaps two branches to this. There's notes in the session in the moment and there's also reflective notes afterwards. And even that might be what was going on for me, what I noticed, which I might take to supervision or a form of reflective practice.
And there's also the client said this, they're going to do this. I need to hold them accountable. They were an X out of 10 on this. And I think it's worth being clear when we're talking about our relationship to notes, what we're referring to. And I guess the spirit of my question and the spirit of my inquiry is, is, is in the session is in the moment. And part of my journey as a coach was wanting to take notes.
out of a place of insecurity, of fear of being found out as incompetent or fear of not showing value and a fear of shame, of being shamed or feeling hot flush if I forgot what the goal was or if I didn't use a particularly key word. And part of my spirit and part of my inquiry, part of my provocation might be... What if we played with that and what if we got to a point where it was okay between coach and clients to not know, to be imperfect, to forget?
Because part of my own training and my own journey and part of the AOEC spirit with which I was taught and have taught is that there is data in the fact that a coach might forget things. And there is data in the fact that a coach and client might forget things and it's, and it's okay to forget things. are human. This is a human profession.
So I have talked about my journey with notes being a bit like a crutch, a, a, a thing that keeps me safe and then a sort of a tiny little sword and shield that will protect me from any fear or, or danger or being found out or. imposter syndrome or whatever we want to label it as. So, Yes, to answer your question, there's been such a rich tapestry of different approaches. And of course, we're operating in different contexts, different kinds of coaching, different neurodiverse.
continuums of ways that we process and ways that we think and ways that we coach and I would say I distill my message as there's no right or wrong here, certainly that's my view, but if you are taking notes, better to do so from a place of courage and confidence and having thought it through and taking part in discussions like this, as opposed to from a place of fear or insecurity or worry or...
needing to have some appearance of control over a situation, because I think that that often restricts and harms the quality and depth of connection, which is, I would say one of the secret sources in in a quality relationship and equality coaching. Thank you, George. So much there. So let's really focus on in the session because I agree with you it's quite different in versus out.
Sandra. It's like I'm smiling George because that's just like, I want to go and sit down with George and have coffee for a long time and dig into this because I think, yeah, I've been coaching. Well, I've probably been coached for a long time, but I've been properly coaching with coaching qualifications for about nine years now. And I can recall how I was at the start and it's like, I've to do it right.
And I packed my bag with stuff and I'd have cards and I'd have thoughts through things and I'd have my notebook. And it's very different now. But I do take notes. If most of my work is with execs and leaders that want a thinking partner and they might sometimes want to be exploring some strategic. So I think the issue for me has been really clear around what makes that relationship work.
And a lot of that is about trust and it's a lot about trust between the people, but it's about me trusting my gut instincts and me trusting that in the moment something will bubble up and It's usually the right thing, but if it isn't the right thing, that's OK. And we can just explore that. So lots of stuff for me. So I do take notes, but they're just like words, really, things to trigger. And often in my work, my clients, we contract and they want something fed back afterwards.
Or they were on a session this afternoon, somebody was on to explore a big strategy around him. You know, he wanted some help. putting the blocks together. So for me to help do that, I have to draw them down.
But I think the issue for me is how we as coaches on our journeys get to a place where we trust our instincts and we can settle into our heads and our brains and our gut instincts and whatever, and be okay with not always getting it right because it's that picking stuff up and then... allowing it to go where it goes. I'm probably not making much sense but yeah I think making notes as I used to because of what was being said isn't helpful for me in my practice and it's that confidence.
How do we contract well but actually how do we trust ourselves and trust the relationship and use the pen or the remarkable in a way that's most useful at the moment. So thank you, great, great. Are we allowed to ask questions or how does it work Claire? I'm curious, what's the relationship between taking notes and trust your instincts? There probably isn't anything directly because I think, know, they're probably separate things. And I think for me that the notes are scrolls.
know, it's like they're not, nobody else made any sense of them. But the trust in my instincts is to allow stuff where it goes. So don't think there is a direct relationship, but I think for me it's taken me to me quite a while to get to that place of being okay with something going wherever it would go.
And, you know, some sessions, a session recently, but we actually stood up together in separate zoom rooms, being trees and land grounding ourselves and, you so for me, it's that instinctive for a long time, my head hasn't been connected to my body in terms of me being able to connect into my whole intellect and, and allowing the client, feeling the energy from the client.
I'm conscious I'm not making much sense, but for me it's that how do we become able to use our whole self in the work that we do? And notes are just part of my way of capturing some bits. Probably never look back at them actually, if I'm honest. They're there and so there's something about writing it down that allows something else to happen.
There's something about trust that you said that really interests me because I've noticed often a thinker or you might call them a client, a person will come with a notebook and there are situations where the notebook becomes a partner in the conversation. And so I'll say to somebody, what needs to be in your notebook for you to feel that this has been a really great session? So we're actually actively partnering with the, the bare notebook.
I've also noticed when I've done recording reviews with coaches that the coaches notebook becomes a partner. And that's a very different thing because when the thinker's notebook becomes a partner, that's consented. When my notebook becomes a partner, there are now three of us in the, I mean, there's scribbling down things. And as that guy said to me this morning, what happens below the screen stays below the screen. And then there's the breaking connection and writing.
And that introduces my notes as a partner in the conversation, which may be impacting flow and all sorts of other things. So being clear about the difference between theirs and mine is interesting. And what never ceases to amaze me and the number of people who come for a two hour coaching session and they don't bring anything with them. And I kind of want to go. I'm really hoping some things happen here that you're going to want to remember.
But I mean, you haven't got a note, but I've got one if you like one. It's, I think it's back to contract because I always, you in that set up, you might want to come along with a pen, you might want to come along with a bit of paper, you know, some stuff on your desk in case we want to start mapping out something. Yeah. So I think there's a lot for me about contracting and set up and conversations and stuff with, so it is a partnership, whatever that partnership looks like.
Can I pick something up Claire that you were just saying? And that's around the kind of my notebook thing. And you saying that brings a third person into the kind of conversation. And I was thinking actually there's lots of different situations where I have to use kind of notes recently. And one of them was where my thinking partner, if we call them that, was full in flow.
And I asked them before they started, rather once they got going, whether they would like me to record some of what they were saying.
so that, and it was just an invitation, they didn't have to use it at all, so that I could record some of what was happening so that when they'd finished the process, they didn't have to think while, other than just in their heads and in the feelings, while they were talking, so that I could bring up some certain bits and then they could record or they could think further through it, because I know I can't remember more than three things at once.
So, and that was where it was received well, so it just contributed to the conversation as opposed to taking an extra part. And it was something we could throw away. We didn't have to use it. But it enabled them to be able to just trust their thinking without having to focus on where they were going. I've done that in career coaching, Jenny, and often when they're thinking faster than they can capture. I mean, now there are ways that we can record it.
Back in the day when I started coaching, the only way to record it was to grab it. Yeah, so we could voice record it or something like that. But I guess in the moment, if it's written down, we've just got the keywords and I can help them get back to it. and I would, and I would always send them away with the piece of paper. So at the end we had a clean ending because I was, and then they go, can you write that down? Just put that out.
can I just dump something in before I forget and then I'll try and shut up? But what's just struck me is because I work with teams in a team coaching space, I'd never ever have a notebook be writing things down as a team coach. And sometimes I might have to write, just got to remember that and have to get up and pick up a post it or something. yeah, it's really interesting. And is that the fact it's a team or is that fact most of that is in the real world?
So just Zoom encourages to take notes because we can't see what's going on, don't they? So Michael, Laura, Sarah, I'm very interested to hear what you have to say.
It's the idea when other people are writing stuff down when the thinker or the client is writing stuff down Sometimes it annoys me actually because they stay in their head when they're writing things down, it's very cognitive and I have a little thing with myself is whether I say I mean, I would never say this but put your notebook down and let's change the channel and get some other information because sometimes writing down is what they know and it sticks them in stuck.
So then there's this little dilemma, do I invite them to do something different? Do I let them write it down because that's what needs to happen? Is it my stuff? Is it their stuff? But yeah, them writing down notes is a thing. Yeah, yeah and it depends what they're going to take away doesn't it? Whether they're taking away a list or whether they're taking away a sense or a shift. Thank you. if I may, the quote from Maya Angelou is wafting into my consciousness a lot, hearing you speak.
People won't remember what you said. They won't remember what you did. They will remember how you made them feel. one of the thread through everything that's been shared is that writing notes or them writing notes is one way of remembering, but also in the spirit of coaching from below the neck, you might say to someone, know, hearing you speak, I feel a real heaviness in my heart there. And I'm just, I'm wondering if that means anything to you.
You hearing or remembering or noting things down somatically might unlock different levels and depths and textures of knowing or awareness that are more powerful and transformational than the notes scribbled on a page. You know, I'm honoring the fact that many people have said that they don't go back and read their notes and our clients might be the same as well.
So my spirit is that working semantically and working with felt sense and listening with your body can in my experience, offer powerful experiences and learning and awareness and Yeah, might evoke different levels of awareness and maybe even transformation. Who knows?
I think the issue there for me as a coach was the journey it took me to get to a place that I was confident enough to tie into that stuff and how we can help ourselves and others trust that what Tommy is saying is actually really great data. Because it felt brave, it felt brave. Sometimes it still feels brave to able to say, this is what's going on for me. So there's some of our vulnerability, isn't there, in all this as coaches? Thank you. Where's the data?
Is it everywhere or is it on the page? Thank you. Laura. I can relate to so much of what's being said. And it's interesting for me to listen, George, what you said there about the Maya Angelou quote and how you make me feel. mean, that's everywhere in all the conversations we have every day. And I think, Sandra, to your point, that confidence and feeling confident enough as a coach to feel, yeah, I am feeling this, therefore I'm going to share that, really resonates with me.
And to me as a coach, if you're note taking, you're distracting and putting that feeling onto a piece of paper, whereas perhaps it should be being shared with our clients. Fascinating for me. Thank you. Yeah, Mike. Yeah, I've got a couple of thoughts. The first is, think, trying to focus on whether and when the notes are going to be helpful for the client. I mean, there's our own relationship with notes.
But one of the sort of, I think one of the principles I've sort of discerned and tried to follow is that I just think I get a sense when A client is going to want me to reflect back to them quite accurately some specific things they said or agreed. And that's clearly not everybody or every coaching issue that comes up.
But sometimes I don't know, I just get the sense they want me, they're going to find it helpful if I can send them an email at the end of the session and just noting down four or five things maybe that they It might often be little phrases or specific terms of phrase that they used. and I haven't tested this, you know, empirically. I guess I have to the extent that some have said, you know, thanks for email was really helpful. you know, and I know from, you know, when I've been a coachee, yeah.
is really helpful sometimes, you know, maybe it's two months into your last coaching session and you haven't thought much about it since the last time that you were on with your coach. So five minutes before the coaching session as the coachee, you just quickly reread the email that the coach sent you and it's, it can be really helpful. so yeah, so for me, it's keeping in mind this, this question of do I, do I, you know, genuinely believe this is going to be helpful for them or not? trust in.
the other thing I don't, I don't really know how relevant it is, but I'll just chuck it in, case it sparks any thoughts. I was thinking about, as I said, from my previous career and my relationship to notes, one of the things I learned over my career was that taking notes in meetings was a lot about power and your status. And the more senior you got, the more important it was that you never took notes because it sort of signified that you know, that was for other less important people to do.
it took me a little while to twig that, but I'm afraid I did sort of play along with it as a game. You know, it's the kind of game that you end up playing in kind of corporate or in my case, public sector. So I don't think I'm struggling to see how that's directly relevant to a coaching context because it's, you know, it's not necessarily, but I'll just throw it in there because it's something that struck me about a sort of lesson I learned from, from my previous life. It might be.
It's always worth asking the question, isn't it? Sarah, want to, I know that in clean language, language really matters. So I'm gonna ask you in a minute to tell us a bit about you and notes. I just want to nail the thing about insurance. So I phoned our insurance company and it took me a long time and several weeks to get through to somebody who'd actually answer the question, which was, if a claim is made against us and we haven't taken notes, is that an issue?
So the first guy spoke to me and went, well, I will only talk to you if a claim has been made against you. And I said, yes, but if a has been made against me and you're going to tell me I should have taken notes, I need you to tell me that now. Anyway, I spoke to this lovely lady and she... She was so useful. So she said that if a complaint is made against a coach, the first thing that the insurance company will do is to contact the ethics committee of your professional body.
That means you have to be a member of a professional body and not just say you're by the ethics of a professional body, because this is when your professional body is useful. She said, we're guided by the ethics committee. and then we make it, we take a decision based on what the ethics committee said. So she said, if the ethics committee say it's all right not to take notes, then it's all right not to take notes.
So I checked out the ICF because that's my professional body and I checked out my insurance company and I know that for me, I don't need notes. That's really helpful to get that. I would really recommend that you have an annual conversation with a real live person in your insurance company. And in fact, there's a post coming out in the supervision community in December all about this because there's an awful lot of myth around the industry.
So I can't tell you how many times I've been told, well, you have to take notes because otherwise if somebody makes a claim, you've got to have notes and then you've got a case history and then you've got, but we're not expert, you know, you've got all sorts of complexity. So I just wanted to share with you, so thank you George for sending me on an extraordinary trail to finally find somebody who would speak to me properly. Appreciate it. So Sarah, tell us about notes and clean language.
what do you what what in what way? You said you said that exquisite precision. I love that phrase mattered. So how do you use notes? So I've been doing, I've been a coach for 12, 13 years so I do have quite a good memory recall but I take notes of people's exact words but like somebody else said I don't write sentences I'm just jotting down people's words and then I can refer back to them.
So... Yeah, they're... and so you do backtracking, somebody will say something and da da da and then you'll go back but you use their exact words so you'll be saying and in your tummy and red and angry and is there anything else about in your tummy? So it really helps to capture the structure of people's thinking and then you can direct them within that. Does that make sense? It's quite hard to explain without an example. So my question to you is, do you look away?
Well, I mean, again, we're talking about Zoom. So it does give you this ability to be paying exquisite attention to somebody's face and body on screen and be writing things down. So I can do it now and you can't see that I'm doing it. But there is also a belief in giving people thinking space. So you don't need to be constantly looking. you would be set, you know, at the beginning you're setting yourself, am I in the right place? for you, are we at the right angle and that kind of thing.
So you're ensuring that you've got a space between you that is working for your client. like, can I come in? Another thing that's popped into me because I was in a car for a long time at the weekend with somebody that I informally coached, known for years and stuff like that. But and when we walk in, we often have coaching conversations in spaces in cars or walking. I don't carry a notebook. don't sit here. So there is something about Zoom's made it easier to make notes, perhaps.
And Yeah, nobody else could read what I scroll. I'm sitting here scrolling now, but actually, know, I don't take a notebook on a walk. I don't take a notebook if I'm sitting in a coffee shop with somebody and the informal bit of the coaching stuff just bubbles up. yeah, lots to think about, isn't there, around notes?
Yeah, and I think there's what's necessary for the partnership, what supports the partnership, what doesn't support the partnership, what happens on Zoom versus what happens face to face. For me, there's also something about, I know we don't stare the person out, Sarah, I absolutely agree with that, but I notice a lot when I listen to recordings that the coach was looking away when the thinker looked, when something shifted for the thinker.
And for me, there's something about paying attention to the face all the time. And what do we need to do to make that true? Because as much as they need space to think, and I completely agree with you, during that thinking things happen that they may not, what I observe is that they may not notice the thing that happened. So a facial something, tiny thing, you go, because Because for me, noticing is one of the most fundamental aspects of coaching. And I think it's quite hard.
I haven't got it right even now. It's a hard learning journey to be able to notice how much is useful to notice. So interesting. coming back about what Michael said about rereading the notes. And I think there's a similar kind of balance because you have your session, the client leaves, stuff happens for the client and then you start your new session.
But if you reread the notes that happened at the end of the last session, it's kind of like you're bringing them back to where they were or you're bringing yourself back to where they were. not noticing the journey that's happened in between the sessions.
So there's like maybe a balance between I'm going to read these notes and it's going to remind me of what happened, but I need to not let the notes, I need to not start the session where we ended the other session because stuff has happened between times. Absolutely. And it's all about being in sync, isn't it? So you're describing being in sync today from two months ago or a week ago or whenever. And then there's also something about being in sync in the moment with them.
One of the things about review is for me, saying to somebody, what have you done since last time is a very taking them back thing. Whereas if you say, if you say, so what insights have you had since last time? you start getting into the learning space that starts moving them forward. But staying in sync is a really good principle, I think, whatever we're doing. George, I'm just wondering what you're thinking as you hear this conversation, what you're feeling, noticing, wondering.
Hmm, let me look at my notes. Yeah. You For those of you on audio only, there aren't any. Thank Well, I'm really appreciative of the openness and the different perspectives and Yeah, the different modalities. What I'm wondering is that, you know, in an age where at the click of a button on Zoom, you can generate an AI transcripts and reports and summary of a meeting. What might that do for a client who wants notes?
And what tools are gonna be available for us in the future for capturing and summaries? I guess my...
One of the qualities, and I think we're reliant on this Claire, forgive me if I've misremembered, but one of the great qualities of a coach for me and when I've been coached and when I've seen coaching and in the feedback is that ability to work with whatever comes up, the improvisational, to be okay with something popping into your client's imagination or consciousness or a burst of energy and it being okay to not know where to go with it.
for me, I associate notes and clipboards and pens with a way of keeping some sort of structure or control, maybe over the process. So I guess my feeling, my intuition is still the same, that of course, take notes if it's helpful, take notes if it works for you and your clients, but take notes from place of of confidence.
And if you are feeling that they are a bit of a crutch or a bit of a sword and shield, or if the clipboard is a physical barrier to protect you from your clients, or if you notice your eyes, you're looking at a client, but you're feeling the need to just pick up your pen and scribble something while pretending to still listen and main stretch into those areas, take it to supervision and and contract for not taking notes contract for muddling through the conversation contract for being imperfect.
These are things that I think are really, really, really important, Sandra, to get to your point on that journey of confidence of swimming in the waters without the armbands on. yeah, that's, I mean, I could go on, but that's my... The occasional piranha or stuff that like pops up like yeah, particularly in the team coaching space, you have no idea what's gonna pop up.
know, when you've got, I don't know, eight or nine people that for heads and so it's a bit of the courage, but being able to hold yourself grounded enough to be able to respond in a way that's useful to the client and the system, not just, yeah. Fascinating conversation. So we're moving towards the end and I just want to say something for those listeners or viewers who are saying, but I can't remember anything. Can I just give you my top tip is I can remember nothing mostly.
And I just go, so at the beginning we were kind of heading towards how are we doing? You actually, whatever we agree at the beginning is never what we're going to be doing in the middle. And they will remember the things that matter, I think. So, yeah. And the other trick that I use a lot is that when something's spoken that sounds important, I'll almost use a virtual highlighter and just offer back the word. And then we may or may not pick it up later, but now we both remember it.
So rather than me having to hold on to it. But you know, we all have different preferences, but I think that for me, the thing about the thing that matters is connection. So as we begin to wrap up, I'm going to go round and ask everybody one thing that you want to say as we finish and it might be something that you're thinking about, it might be something you agree on, that you feel affirmed and it might be something you want to challenge us with. Whatever you wish, starting with Jenny.
Thank you, Claire. I think the thing I'm wondering is, when I'm about to take notes to consider why, is it because as George was saying, is it a crutch? Is it something to do with my confidence? And, and realise that what you were saying that if it is important, either one or both of you will remember it anyway. So it's to not to not worry. But sometimes As George said, notes are useful. Yeah. Sarah.
As you were talking, I was thinking about you've got your client and you've got the coach and you've got the stuff. And the way that I'm working is to encourage the client to have a rapport with their stuff. So my note taking needs to be in support of the rapport between them and their stuff. So I'm saying it, so what's salient. And my note taking needs to not distract the client from the relationship with their stuff. It's not me that owns it. So if I'm taking so many notes and I'm bringing...
Sorry, go on. What you described earlier was that they know what it's for. In the way that you coach, they know that it's going to be part of the process for them. when you said red to me. But it needs to be discreet enough that I'm not owning it. I'm not so clever with my repeating back or with my note taking that I then possess their things. I am completely in service. So my note taking is completely in service of me helping the client to have a relationship with their stuff. Thank you, Sarah.
Sandra. It was going through my mind and I had an interesting session with a client earlier this afternoon where I think I wore different hats. I was very much a thinking partner. At one stage I was taking notes to help him go away with his strategy to talk to the chair of the board on Thursday.
So I think for me I'm taking away that I want to try to notice when I put the pen down because within that session I very much went from probably a bit of a consultant to actually I put the pen down and we were looking at something that was going on an emotional level. So I want to just notice a little bit more about when, how that's happening. But without getting in the way of the session, if that makes sense.
Because I think I dance between different modalities and different things in the hour and a half.
And I'm wondering why I know when to put the pen What's come into my head is a title of a song by Tears of Fears and the title of the song is Let the Patient Do the Work and I think what I'm getting at there is actually resonating with something you said Claire, your tip about if you can't remember you can kind of fudge it and what's important is what they remember remember anyway and if it's important they'll remember it so I think that's just a useful
reminder to me to just sort of relax a bit about it and you know if it's important they'll remember it And if we make it a thing, then it becomes a thing. but we don't need to make it a thing. Thank you, Laura. I'm going to enjoy being brave and swimming in the water without armbands. I'm quite excited. I've learnt a lot, so thanks very much. Yeah. you Laura and George.
Well, leaving with a lot of gratitude for the discussion and well, one tip from me, my own journey would be, it can be argued that there is an aspect of arrogance of us deciding that something is worthy of being noted down. That sounded important. I'm going to write that bit down. And again, this is a very nuanced and context specific point and not true of all note taking, but It can affect the rapport and the experience.
And I felt self-conscious when a coach or a supervisor has written down a particular word or phrase, but they hadn't written down the other thing. So one of my tips for those listening is to ask, well, you know, what's emerging for you? What's becoming clear in the conversation so far? We're halfway through. What are you taking from this so far? How are we doing? What's, what's, what's sticking in your consciousness?
It's better, think often in the coaching role to lead with curiosity and a humility of tell me about what's what's emerging for you, as opposed to what we're halfway through. You've said this, this and this on my notes. So I'm being a little bit exaggerated here, but the spirit is is one of of of humility and making sure that we're not nefariously directing and steering and noting down things that we perceive as important that might not actually be ultimately serving our clients.
Thank you, George, which beautifully brings us back to what do we need to do to be fully working in partnership with this person as much as we are able. So thank you everyone for coming to the Coaching Inn. Jenny Sharpe, Sandra Whiles, Michael Kell, Laura Wong, George Warren and Sarah Scarratt. What a pleasure it has been to have you here. Thank you everyone for listening. See you next time.
And there's an open table coming up about checking in, which is what you were sort of talking about there, George. So thank you for coming. Thank you everyone for listening. Bye bye. Bye. Bye.