Hello and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn, which is an open table where we're going to be thinking about checking in, which is one of the most important things we need to do to keep in partnership in coaching. Today I am in the illustrious company of Kris Thorne, Laun Ruttenberg Lizzie Rhodes-James and Alun Bedding. Before I get everybody to introduce themselves, just a reminder that we've got an open house at The Coaching Inn. all day on Friday the 28th of March.
So the Coaching Inn, virtually here online, will be open from eight in the morning until six at night. So that hopefully everybody in the world, anyone across the world, can drop in with a cup of tea, coffee, drink, whatever it is and have a chat. So that'll be fun if you're free to do that. Details will be in the show notes and we'll make sure that you have the login well before time. So... Here we are, welcome everybody. So let's just go around the room and let's hear from everyone.
Give us two minutes on your coaching journey. And then I'm really interested, what interests you about checking in or indeed what are your challenges about checking in? Kris, welcome. Hello, great to be here and obviously great to be in the company of so many illustrious coaches.
So hi everybody, my name is Kris Thorne and my journey to coaching started, gosh, back in 2015, I was at a career transition point at the end of a consulting career and I started looking around for what could be the next thing and I discovered coaching and threw myself into it, got qualified as a personal performance coach, NLP practitioner.
of CPD and my focus on coaching now is coaching and training leaders to lead better, go through leadership transitions and to lead people through change which is a massive issue in our organizations today. and the interest in checking in Kris.
Well, I think, as you said, I think I kind of spurred the topic because this for me has been a huge paradigm shift in my coaching journey, learning how to let go of the need to sort of feel as though I had to steer that conversation and really understanding that it was a co-created conversation and that we do check in and the value of checking in. been, it's probably been one of the pivotal things I've learned that's really been able to transform my confidence in my coaching.
Wow. Isn't it amazing? Because if we talk about coaching really effectively being a conversation in partnership, unless we check in, we can't stay in partnership because I'm deciding we're in partnership and that's not partnership. So it's kind of not rocket science, except it is rocket science because it's a very underused skill in coaching, I think. So we'll talk all about it. So Laun, welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. I knew I'd get you here in the end. Indeed.
So you want me to tell you about my coaching journey. long short, qualified as a social worker, thought that was a coach 20 years ago. It wasn't 25 years ago. It wasn't. Really, I'm interested in helping people find a way, find a way to the thing, what they do as they decide on the thing. My interest at the moment or It seems to be consistent, as I qualified about two, three years ago. you know, the themes keep coming and going, but that's how it is. There's overwhelm and attention.
So I'm interested in, and they're related, how to help, how to support people with recognizing overwhelm and getting on with it, getting on with what they want out of their lives. And as you know, I'm interested in reading, but actually it's turned out to be about how to manage your attention. So where to put your attention. where you want to put your attention, where you want to put your attention to go for the things that you want. Why am I interested in checking in?
Because I'm an obsessive checker inner, which might actually be a sign of insecurity. And I was thinking about it today is I'm checking in because I just are we we going in the right place here? Is this what we're working together for? Now, that's partnership, right? But I'd like to do it a little bit less of a puppy way. and more of a, more of a, this is a partnership rock, we're going in the right direction.
Yes, and you've hit there on a really important thing, Laun, and that's the difference between am I any good and is the work useful? And being absolutely clear that those are very different things is really important because what you said was absolutely right and a tiny bit ambiguous. Whereas if we go, actually, there's am I any good and there's is the work useful? then we start getting to a place where we can start looking at really useful ways of checking in. So we'll come back to that.
Thank you. Lizzie. So hi, I'm Lizzie. So I've been coaching unconsciously and consciously, well, for well over 20 years, it's probably nearly 35. More recently, it started in a story at the end of somebody was leaving and they stood up and they said, I want to say thank you to a couple of people and they call my name out. I was like, really? So that's where it started and I trained about eight, nine years ago.
And now I really focus on trying to make, well, trying, supporting leaders make it feel easy. So I particularly like to work with people who are health conscious, high performers who are ambitious and they're sweeping towards the C-suite, mostly in tech. And yeah, absolute passion behind that, partly due to my history in relation to my own experience and also fundamentally working alongside them to make them feel energized. rather than washed out in relation to what they're doing.
And check-ins for me, and I think it's been summarized already brilliantly, it's this kind of, this balance of making sure it's not checking in for my basis, but checking in for their basis and how the importance of progress and how we can check in lightly in doing that. without going back to the beginning. We'll pick that up in a minute because it's really easy to go at the beginning. said this. But yeah, Alun, hello. Hello and hello everyone.
And lovely to be in the great company of all of these people as well. So my coaching journey probably started about seven or eight years, maybe a little bit longer ago than that, where I was introduced to coaching as a skill within the pharmaceutical industry. And then I moved companies and went on a leadership course, which was all about coaching.
I've got to be honest I was useless and the feedback was that they didn't give the feedback that you were useless but it was almost the case of yeah you need to go on to some coaching skills so I went on a coaching skills course loved it went to my boss and said I want to do a full diploma in this expecting the answer well that's not to do with your job blah blah blah blah blah but he just turned around and went so what do you need so I said well I would need the money Okay, just sign up.
That's fine. So that was about five years ago now and I was coaching internally until July of last year and July of last year I decided I was going to take early retirement, I'm going to put that in quotes, and work for myself. So now I coach leaders within the pharmaceutical industry, you can't get away from it, I haven't been in there for 35 years, but leaders within the pharmaceutical industry and developing them to become like Lizzie said, C-suite leaders as well.
And my interest in checking it, I don't have a problem checking in. Where I have a problem though is sometimes if somebody's waffling and interrupting them and checking in. That's where I have an issue. So I'm quite happy checking in and seeing where they're going, where they want to go next, all of those aspects. But it's actually interrupting sometimes that I have a problem with. Okay, we can do a mini masterclass on interrupting. Because it is an art.
Because I think one of the things I think we fear most as coaches is cutting across people. And I think that's one of the reasons that we don't check in. And I think it's another reason why we don't interrupt. Because we feel as though we're going to have to polish our elbows and get in there and go, excuse me. but we don't. So, let me just offer a few things about checking in and then I'd just love to turn this into a conversation.
And I know that you listeners will have things to say and we look forward to getting your emails to info at 3dcoaching.com with your builds on this. So it's what I said earlier about partnership. So it's not in partnership unless we're both working together. And the only way to know that is to ask you. And I would say that over an hour, I will probably check in about 15 times.
And it's taken me a long time to make sure and to learn a vocabulary, which is entirely about the work and not at all about me. And one of the things that I noticed is when coaches don't check in is, it's because they don't have a vocabulary that isn't about them. And they go, well, I don't want to say, was I any good today? So I won't say anything. Because if I say, was I any good today? And you say, no, I don't know what I'm going to do. Have you at all learned anything today?
You know, it's really interesting, the natural checking in questions that I hear coaches ask all the time. So the check-in has to be entirely about the work. Dumi Magadlela, who was coaching in on the 1st of January, he said that every question is an intersection. And that means that we have to invite people to take the lead at every single intersection. That's a lot of checking in. That would be more than 15 check-ins in an hour, actually. But we've just got to check we're still on track.
So are we on track? It's quite a good one. Is this useful? How are we doing? Where are we? Those kind of questions, none of them are about, am I any good today? But we've got to get fluent in a very different way of asking stuff in order to really keep in sync. And I listen to recordings every day, most of which have no check-ins at all. However experienced the coach is. We've just got to do it differently. So do what we do, but check in more, I would say.
So as I've said all those things, what insights have you got and what questions are coming up? Lawn. So I don't know why the word collusion came to mind. So I was thinking about power partnership and how maybe... So sometimes when I check in, there's this sort of silence and pregnant silence, you know, as if, okay, but you're running the show here. Why are you asking me if we're in the right place? No, this is on you. And...
And to go, no, but this is actually on you as well, is sort of breaking a third wall, or whatever you call it, because they didn't know, they kind of, we're all pretending we didn't know that, you know, even though we've discussed that I'm not the expert, even though we've discussed this as a partnership. You know, you want to put up a on your head, remember, partnership, almost like they should have a sign on their head, remember, check in. And so sometimes it's quite uncomfortable.
And you're like, well, should I go back to just how I was before? Will that make them less uncomfortable? So I do kind of shake it up a bit. A bit more helpful than maybe you think I should be was I'll go. So we decided we were going this way. Are we going this way still? Because after what we've discussed, I don't know if you want to go this way. Do you want to go a little left? Maybe it'll write or have I missed where we're going? I've been told that's too directive.
I'm going to stick with it to be honest, because sometimes if I get talking, they get talking in this particular area. yeah, so try and keep eye out. Because that tangles us up. I think one of the things that came to me as you were talking there, Laun, is when do we check in? Because I think we often, so if you think about a conversation goes up and down, and the energy is, there's a lot of energy and creativity, and then we get a bit frozen.
It's, it's very natural to want to check in when it's frozen. And what happens when we check in when it's frozen is that neither of us have any idea what we're doing. and we go to them, where are we? And they go, well, I don't know. And you're thinking, well, I don't know. And then we get both going, that's when they push back. So one of the arts of checking in is if you think about ups and downs of the conversation is always check in when you're in flow. Was that an insight?
There was a look you just gave me. Yeah. If you only check in when they're stuck and they're going, don't know what to do, and you're going, well, I don't know what to do either. It's really annoying. And that's when we get pushback, which feels like, well, I'm paying you to help me up this conversation and you're telling me you don't know what to do. So, so always check in when there's flow. because that will probably give us enough flow to get to the next check-in.
How do you know when in that flow? Sorry. That's a really good question. By looking. And that's why learning to look is just as important as learning to ask questions. You'll see it. Alun, let's hear from everyone what you're thinking. Alun first. I've got two thoughts in my head. The first thought is if you check in when they're in flow let's say you ask a question like what have you learned so far or what do you know now which you didn't know then does that ruin the flow?
Yes. How are we doing? There are moving check-in questions like how are we doing? And there are let's step out of what we're doing and have a look at it from a different place, check-in questions. And I think we can use them in different ways. So sometimes when I do hear coaches do a check-in, they'll go, let's just take a pause there. Which is a good thing to say, but what we're saying is let's just stop.
and that stops the flow and you've got to do it when you know that the flow can pick up again. So how are we doing? Are we on track? Is this useful? Those ones are different from let's just take a look at a stop and look at the map. So if I go into the world of walking, which everyone knows is my obsession. I might say on a walk, we okay with this?
Which is different from when you get to a style and there are signposts going in three directions and you actually get the map out and go, well, we could go this way or we could go this way or we could go this way. so they're different. Great question. Lizzie and Kris, what are you thinking, noticing, wondering?
The thing that came up for me, which I think it seems to be a bit of a common theme at the moment, is there's something about, there's definitely something about learning to let go of control. Because I think when we first trained as coaches, obviously, we're trying to learn the skill. And so like in my scenario, they gave us a very specific, they gave us the grow model. And that was like your Bible. And it's like, you follow this process, you're assessed on this process.
And it's like drummed in that like, this is how you do coaching. And then you sort of... get your qualification, you're out in wider world and people are like, well great, now you can basically do what you want. You're like, what is that? And to learn to sort of step away from a pre-determined process like that and open it up and effectively make yourself vulnerable by checking in. I mean, it's a massive thing about vulnerability and letting go of control and accepting that and everything.
So to me, it's... think it's that initial courageous step that we learn to make as coaches. Once we've got the basic toolkit under our belt, it's how do we then go beyond that and really learn to step into being present and fully there. And as you say, learning to facilitate that thinking instead of taking them through a process. taking them through a process where they're following you. And when they're following you, they're probably pleasing you.
And when they're pleasing you, they may not be learning. So partnership actually says this is much more scary because we don't know what we're doing. And that's the point and it's very scary and so what do we do to make sure that we're serving them and being useful and that's why we have to check in because we might be doing something that's a disaster. I did a coaching demo this morning and Lizzie and Alun you were there and we had this, there was a great bit that I did and it didn't work.
He said something about wanting to cut through something with a machete, I think, something like that. So I got my machete out and threw my arm across the thing like a... So it was a silent question about a machete and he just abandoned it. And you have to not go, oh dear, I'm really sorry, I think I did something wrong there, which is interrupting the flow. And you have to not make it a thing.
And you just have to go with the, you know, there's a saying, isn't there in English, go with the flow? We have to go with the flow. And I would say... In an hour's conversation, probably, this is not research, this is just my grab a number out the air, sorry, Alun. But probably 80 % of what we do isn't very useful. And 20 % is going towards the game changing stuff. And we don't know which it is. because we're working in partnership and some will work and some won't.
So I think one of the things that happens is if everything in a coaching session works, you'll probably find it's because it's not in partnership, because they're doing what they're told. And actually what we want to happen is we want them to do what is useful to them and we want them to be able to go, no, this isn't what's useful at all. We need to do something else and we need to be not offended and we need to look not offended and we need to be experienced as completely not bothered about it.
And that is where we do our great work. That was a sign of wow, Kris. I was just thinking that that, I mean, that to me feels like a real revelation because I was like, what, 80 %? I mean, in a way you feel, oh, okay, so it's okay if not every single moment of the coaching session is packed full of value and insights and transformational moments, because obviously it won't be, because it takes a while to figure it out, doesn't it? Okay, so here's what I think.
In a coaching session, which is transformational, there is probably one moment that is the moment. Everything else is building up to that or is avoiding it. I listened to one yesterday and the coach said to me, when was that insight? And the insight was as they were closing, right as they were actually finishing, the thinker suddenly went, wow, that was it. And I think we'd all thought it wasn't going to happen. And then suddenly, and if that happens, that's amazing.
We can't expect transformation in every minute. Everything is just kind of building up to that. Or not. So, so that really, I hope, takes the pressure off. Because would, would any of us like to have a transformational coaching session when somebody's helping us think when, when, the fireworks are going off every micro is, yeah, this and this. It would be completely overwhelming and we wouldn't be able to do anything with all those amazing things because they'd sort of disappear.
lawn and then we'll go to Lizzie. what would, sorry, what would, what's happening the rest of the time? So if there's one pivotal moment, what, so I want to say what am I doing the rest of the time, but I'm going to put it differently, what is happening the rest of the time? We're finding it. well you made that sound so simple. But we haven't got a map and we probably don't know where it is. Which is why right sizing is important because it gets us closer to it before we start the work.
Because if you don't do the right sizing, then you're in a much bigger field looking for the treasure. When you do the right sizing, you've got the field is smaller. So you've got less space to look for the treasure. But that's what we're doing. We're trying to uncover the thing that's going to unlock it. And if we've done that, we've done amazing work. Michael Ibrant on the podcast at the end of season four, she said she reckons it happens at 35 minutes. Who knows? Who knows when it happens?
But it's just a really, really interesting concept. So my question to you, Lizzie, is you looked like you were going to say something and I would love to hear what it is. So I've had a number of thoughts of what you said.
I think the checking in and the fluidity creates, is a balance, but also picking up right at the very beginning when we kind of introduced ourselves, this idea of when we're checking in, we're checking in in the moment and not necessarily going back and how we work with that and then not lead with where we want to take it. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of, and then the other piece was around connection. How does checking in or how can we best check in to allow us to build on the connection?
And I think when we can loyally hold on to the thing we're doing. that really supports the connection. So. Lizzie, can you just pop on mute? So if they say at the beginning, want to get, I want a revelation. Sorry, I'm making this up, but imagine they say I want a revelation. So it's easy to check in by saying at the beginning of the conversation, you said you wanted a revelation. How are we doing? And what you've done is you've taken them all the way back to the beginning.
And we'd actually made some progress towards finding our revelation in the field that we're talking about. and then suddenly we've gone, let's go back to the beginning of the field and let's see how we're doing about the revelation. What we've now done is we've taken them backwards. So yes, we're checking in, but we're checking in by returning to the original beginning. So instead of facing forwards in the conversation, we're now facing backwards.
So the art is how do I check in without going backwards? And the way to check in without going backwards is to say, so how are we doing on the revelation? Can you hear that's the same thing? But instead of turning around and going back to the beginning, we're staying facing forwards. But you've got to ask them that before you think you're never going to find it.
Because if you think, if you think we've been talking for 50 minutes or we haven't found your revelation yet, we're never going to find the revelation, you're not going to say to them at five to the end, How are we doing on your revelation? Because you are absolutely freaking out. So you've got to start asking them about their revelation ages before that. because that's what partnerships about. So I might say 10 minutes in, how are we doing? So I'm just using revelation as a working word.
So 10 minutes in, I go, how's your revelation? Knowing they probably don't have any. But it doesn't matter because we've got 50 minutes left. So how's your revelation? hasn't moved really, but I'm not bothered. I am not bothered in the least. It doesn't matter. great, so we've got about 50 minutes left. What do we need to do to get a bit closer to your revelation? They might say something, they often do, or they might go, I don't know, that doesn't matter. That's okay.
Well, let's keep looking then, shall we? Then check in again five or 10 minutes later. So how are we doing on the revelation? But unless you ask them early, you will be freaking out. and you won't end up asking them at all because you so think they're going to go, no, you were not useful today. Or no, you were not helpful today. We're trying to be useful, but to be useful, we need to check it out.
So all of it is about uncovering, discovering new things, understanding things in a different way, transformation. But we've got to check in early and we've got to check in facing forwards and we've got to check in when we're not freaking out. Kris. So I just wanted a clarifying question. So when you said, we don't want to go back to the beginning, we want to still like check in on the revelation.
So is the way that we're doing that, that we are not saying in the beginning you said, we're just saying, so how are we doing about the revelation? As though we're already making that, is that what you mean by facing forward? Okay, cool. the same thing, so you're almost using the same words, but instead of saying, let's go all the way back to the beginning, you're just checking in where you are.
So imagine that you're in a car and you're driving, so we're in the UK at the moment, all of us, I think. So imagine you're in a car and you get in the car and you decide that you're going to drive from London to Manchester. So instead of going, when we left London, we said we were going to Manchester. How are we doing? And you're halfway up the motorway on the way to Manchester. You might say, do we still want to go to Manchester? or, or, look how far we've come, or something.
You don't say, when we left London, we said we were going to Manchester, because you're already halfway there. It's a bit odd, isn't it? When I talk about it in relation to maps, you're all looking at me as if to go, that is weird. So, so as much as the professional bodies say that we need to, they describe it in different ways, but they all talk in different ways about checking in, although not probably as much as they need to. It does not require us. to go back to the beginning.
You know, if you're on a date, I haven't done one of them for many years, if you're on a date and you go, let's get to know each other, you don't say after your third date, well, at the beginning of date one, we said we wanted to get to know each other. How are we doing? Because that's weird. You check in at the present, don't you, without... You check in on the same question, but you do it in the present instead of going back to the beginning.
But one of the things I notice is when I watch recordings of coaches who do go back to the beginning, you never get back to where you were. You never reclaim the ground that you've already made. You always come back a bit behind where you had been because you'd gone back to the beginning. Lizzie. It's not slow, but it reminds me of going in car journeys with small children and they're saying, are we there yet? We're nearly there. We're nearly there, yeah.
Which is slightly a harsh way of basically saying, we've got to work together. So obviously in a coaching context, don't even necessarily want to be so blatant about that, but essentially that's what we are. We want to kind of maintain the enthusiasm for getting to where we need to get to, where they want to get to. might be the beach for them or the playground or whatever. But in a way that brings us together. rather than, we're not there yet. So there needs to be no telling off.
And I think often when we check in, we can accidentally sound as though we're telling them off. You know, when we started, we said we were going to do this, but we're not. This is a very bad thing. We've just got to be really normal, face forward and make it about the work and not about me or you. You know, because Lizzie, you wouldn't like it if you felt like I was going, well, Lizzie, you're not doing very well today, are you?
in the same way that I wouldn't like it if I thought you were saying to me that I wasn't doing very well today. We need to be thinking about the thing we're doing.
Alun. I was going to add to that Claire because one of the things that I know when I was new to coaching it was almost like checking in sounded like I want to know about your thing because I want to dig more into it myself and understand it and suddenly when the thinker has silence and they have a thing going I wonder what that was let's go and find out what that was and it takes them back Yeah. Always keep facing forwards, however excited you are about finding out what just happened.
So when you see an insight happen, instead of saying what just happened there, which turns them around, goes backwards again, what do you know? Did you just have an insight? Yes, because you want the data in the present. They don't need to fill you in. to say what happened in the past. Lizzie.
I think there can be a temptation if we're not careful, that I don't know this correlates and you know, please say if it's completely the wrong thing, but there can be, you know, you know, what's your insight now, they can explain their insight, and then they can be in tendency, you can use single words, which I've kind of learned from you as well, Claire is, you know, so I'm hearing x, y, and z.
and there's this slight balance and this grittiness that I know sometimes I feel, am I therefore interpreting or am I holding what I've heard? And that can be quite, I don't know, I feel sometimes it can be a fine line, although it can be appreciated. So I don't know what you think on that. That's why we need to cultivate the sound of the offer. Because everything is an offer. So if I go priorities.
Budget Strategy That's an offer and then you can go no whereas if I say to you so it's priorities budget and strategy always an offer. And that's also about partnership because we don't know and we may not have heard correctly. And that doesn't matter as long as it's an offer. Let's see.
Yeah, interesting enough, just picking up from that, almost feels like, you know, there's a, I use the word tone to your voice, there's kind of a tone to it, but that creates the dance that allows you to keep that, the boogie going, so to speak. Yeah, it's all about the dance. can't tell you how important I think checking in is. I think you've probably heard me passionately ramble on about it here right now.
Kris. And I'm just sitting here wondering, or standing here wondering, if this is so, given how important this is and the difference it makes in our coaching sessions, maybe it's just me, why is it not like part of like, I don't know, beginning coach training? Because I mean, until I had the good fortune to stumble across your book, know, via one of my coach trainers and discovered Simplifying Coaching, I had never even heard of checking. And maybe I missed the module.
I don't know, maybe I was asleep, but I was like, What is this? This is completely new concept, you real paradigm shift. And it's been such a, well, it's such a transformational change for myself and obviously for my clients, I think, my goodness, why is this not more widely taught, spoken about, et cetera? How long have you got? Mmm, pretty warm.
have very strong opinions about what's taught in coach training school and I think that you learn an awful lot of things about an awful lot of things that might at some point further down the line be useful. They might not, they might be useful but actually there are some fundamentals about the beginning, the middle and the end of the conversation and checking in. that are absolutely essential and are not taught in many coach training schools. And that is really annoying.
Lone. just thinking when Kris was talking of what your answer would be and could I type you some stuff and then I'm not Kris, Claire, like they're thinking, I think her answer is going to be something like the content of what you said, how long have you got is about the power, the power dynamic and the differential that we don't get taught about in coaching, that all these assumptions of how we relate to each other, that we don't get, you know, get taught in in coaching training.
I'd say, I I trained a little bit, to be honest, not fair to say not at all. But those things, as an example, might be more important than the Grove method. And maybe they don't teach it because it's a really hard thing to touch. No, she doesn't buy it. you can only train in what you've learnt and there's a lot of training, not all, but there are quite a lot of coach training schools where the trainers are not super experienced coaches.
So if you go to, if you meet people who've been trained by really, really, really experienced coaches, you'll experience something very different. But you know, coach training has been around for a long time. And some of it is taught by trainers and not coaches. So they might be very good trainers, but they might not have put it into practice.
So when I share what I'm learning, I'm sharing what I'm learning from having done thousands of hours of coaching, but now in my new world of mentoring and supervision, watching thousands of hours of coaching. And you learn when you go, they don't know what they're doing. You know, it's not that what they're doing isn't Very good, but actually there are two people in this conversation that I'm watching and they're not both in the same conversation.
One of them's in one conversation and one of them's in a different conversation. So how do they connect those together? And it's through that endless observation of conversations that you can begin to notice some things that aren't in the books. You know, there's a lot of things that we're talking about here on this podcast that aren't, they're not in the books. I've never seen anything in a book about coaching about checking in. There is going to be something because I'm just writing something.
you know, but it's a real simple thing. You know, is this useful? Because if we don't ask then we're either assuming it is, which might not be right, or we're assuming that we're a disaster, which might also not be right. And know, coaches often think, I don't think I'm very good at this. But actually you're probably a lot better than you think you are. But the only way you're going to find out if the work's any good is to ask.
So, Alun, let's hear from Alun, then let's just wrap up because we could be here forever. Three and a half years, was it? No, three and a half hours. Alun, what? to add Claire, you talk about watching recordings and I know you've also talked about when you do your own coaching recording and watching it back.
And I guess one of the things you could do if you think, well, I haven't really checked in very much in this conversation, is maybe look back on the recording you've done and think to yourself, well, where could I have checked in? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's such a good idea. because we need to be together. And when we're not together, we need to check in. And actually, if we're together for too long, we might be colluding. So I just think it's a really useful thing to do.
And it's about remembering it. That's the thing that matters is remember to check in. Because I think naturally, you do know how to do it. also we don't need to be in control. So what do we need to do now doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing, which is why I'm asking you. It means we could do a lot of things now. What do we need to do now? So as we come to the end of our exploration, I'm just thinking about T.S.
Eliot there, we shall not cease from exploration and the end of our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time as long as we check in. what are you taking away from this call? Let's start with you, Kris. think one of the, well, certainly the 80-20 insight in terms of the 80 % being what gets us to the 20%.
And I think, yeah, and just even thinking about just has the conversations played out, one of the things I've really noticed with the checking in is you've given us examples is how much it's about, it's really the language that enables us to keep it very present and future focused and keep that momentum going. So it's kind of the ideal, you know. propeller, I guess, if you like, just keep us gently ticking along. Absolutely and do it before you're panicking. Yeah, well, yeah.
And the thing and that was the other, sorry, the other quick insight was that I like the checking in before they've had an insight because you're you're kind of presupposing there will be insights, know, sort of planting that seed that actually, we will uncover something today. it really doesn't matter if they haven't had one yet because the world has not ended. Laun, what's your insight? Gosh, wasn't expecting me next.
I think right at the beginning you said the focus needs to be on is the work useful, not am I any good? And that's the one I need to take away with me. I mean, I'm not saying it's about me or anything, but I think sometimes my panic is about that. yeah. Great. And you'll notice when you ask checking in questions, if they live in the world of am I any good or whether they live in the world of is this useful? And it's just about learning not to ask the ones that say am I any good?
Because they're a bit humiliating anyway, aren't they? So just don't. But often those are the words we come up with first. So why would we not ask them? But just learn to delete them. Switch it. Lizzie. So I've drawn a signpost on my pad here. Of course you have. And there's three things that really stand out. One is, Kris has already mentioned, is about language. What's your insight now? The second thing is sound. I'm working quite a bit on the sound. the third thing is around doing early.
Do it early, because all of this provides a signpost. allowing them to know where they are, to see the insights or the slight progress of where their thinking is even if they're not there where they want to be. Yeah, and a marble in Kramer, any progress is progress. That's all we need to do.
Alun. picking up on lawns one of the one thing I I'm always scared of saying is is this useful because I don't want that to be I always think it's they're gonna think I am I asking am I useful but it's is this useful I like that the different phrase of tone a different phrasing of that And the other one is just be braver in checking in. I know when I've got a 30 minute coaching session I'm thinking to myself, I'm not sure I want to check in because we're going to ruin the flow here.
But also to make sure if I do check in that it's a checking in where okay if it's going to stop the flow of the conversation that we can get back into that flow. Yeah. And you don't need to say, let's completely stop now. So neither of us is moving. Now we're going to check in. Now we're going to start again from standing start. Keep the flow. Thank you so much, Kris, Thorne, Laun, Ruttenberg, Lizzie Rhodes, James and Alun Bedding for coming to the Coaching Inn.
Thank you everybody for listening. Would absolutely love to hear your comments. Email info at 3dcoaching.com. And I suspect that we will be returning to this subject on another day. So thank you all. Take care. Bye bye.