You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching's virtual pub where we enjoy conversations with people who engage in the world of coaching. Before we start listening to this week's edition of the Coaching Inn with Peronel Barnes, who's been with 3D Coaching for 18 years. If you've worked with Peronel at any point in that process and you've got some thanks or offers to make to her as she retires from the work with us, please, please put them in an email to info at 3dcoaching.com.
with full parallel in the subject line and we will absolutely make sure that she gets those. So let's listen. though and welcome to this week's very special edition of The Coaching Inn, where I'm absolutely delighted to be in the great company of my friend and colleague, Peronel Barnes, who will introduce herself in a moment. But first of all, just know that this is going to be an episode full of laughter.
First of all, do subscribe or follow on your preferred podcast platform and then you can get every episode as it comes out every week. And if you love this episode, do share it. Peronel, we've known each other for 18 years. I don't feel old enough and you don't look old enough, but yes, at least 18 years. I bumped into you, I think when I was working as a project manager, thinking about marketing for 3D coaching and that's... That happened a bit.
And then what happened is that I got sucked in to the whole learning, reducing, simplifying thing and came on transforming conversations. Although it wasn't called that, it was called something slightly different. And I remember it distinctly because actually I wasn't terribly well and I spent more time standing at the back of the room, holding onto a filing cabinet as well as concentrating going. Well, yes, this is yes. Yes, I kept thinking, well, yes. And then there was the but.
The well, yes of absolutely, this is the best way to have a great conversation. But I didn't know this was coaching. But yes, this is a really good way of eliciting information from whoever you're talking to. But I didn't realize I wasn't meant to be taking responsibility. All sorts of little gems. which popped up in my learning, which must be 16, 17, 18 years ago. And then you found you were rather good at it and you rather liked it. And then we hired you as an associate.
And then for a number of years, you've been leading our mental coaching team. I really feel that it was such an honor to sort of slide in sideways. I never knew that I was going to be working. with 3D. I knew I was going to be working with 3D in a particular role, but that role totally changed. Having done a little bit of work with you and then improving my own coaching, the move into mentoring and looking after the mental training just was so natural.
straightforward and I think that's been the story all the time with 3D. If you had said to me 18 years ago, yes you're going to become one of our our mental coaches, I'd have said no. And if you had said 15 years ago, right, what about taking on the responsibility for our training? I'd have said no. But it eased, it was, it eased in and I always knew and still know that 3D had got my back.
So if I fell over, which I did on occasions and got really bloody knees and a bloody nose, it just required a conversation saying bloody knees, bloody nose, what did I do? And even in the talking of what did I do? Someone wise, often Claire, would say, and out would come this little gem and I go, yep, yep, okay, got it. And then I'd be ready to go back in thinking I've learned, I'll refine, I'll hold things lightly.
And yet I will know that the process and what we're doing is so gem-like, jewel-like, gold-like. that it will do its work, even if I've got bloody knees. Yeah, and you've done such a great job. And the reason that we've got this podcast today is to say thank you because you're moving to a new season. I am. And thank you for thanking me. And I'd really love to use this time to unpack some of the things that you're learning and then...
Also, we're all really curious about what you're going to do next. Well, maybe I will know by the end of this what I'm going to do next. And what I'm learning, that's a really good place to start. What I'm learning is that Transition for me is not comfortable. And yet, if I avoid it, it's even more uncomfortable. And so my transition takes time and usually over a long period of time.
One of the things that has happened this year is that I took a three month sabbatical in every area of my life, which quite fun actually. And during that time I could hear myself having internal conversations about, you need to make a decision, you need to decide, you need to, you need, you need, you need, need. And I would have to keep saying, no you're on sabbatical. No decisions to be made during these three months. And I'd let it go. And then 24 hours later, no, no decisions to be made.
And that allows me to sort of see the information in front of me, pick it up, handle it, feel it, put it down again, go, okay, still don't know. Move on to something else, pick it up, feel it, handle it. Go, that's interesting. I think I'll keep that one. And so it has literally been a sifting process of, do I want to do that? Don't I want to do that? Is that giving me energy? Is that not giving me energy? Am I really fired up when somebody says dot dot dot? Or am I not?
And it's only since the sabbatical has ended, and I'm quite a strategic thinker in a way, even though it might be slow. I had said, right, you need to make ABCD decisions by the 31st of July. How interesting it's the 31st of July. And in even in the last 10 days, I've completed and closed off and ended many things. Wow. Yeah. That takes a lot of courage.
Yeah. And I also noticed that it's taken you a year to be able to definitively say that because I remember having conversation with you before Christmas where you said, I think I'm going, but I'm not sure. So can you put Paranel not available in my diary and then we'll work it out? Yeah, hand on heart, no, I'm a slow motion decision maker. I'm a slow motion thinker. But actually knowing that takes the pressure off myself.
Yeah. So. You're also an artist and our family are privileged to all have a number of your pictures. My kids, listeners, both got presents from us of Paranel paintings and they've been after one for years, both of them. They had a sense of victory when they went, we've got Paranel barns now. A PB. I've got a few PBs myself. And of course, you've been a friend to our family through all this time, which is a beautiful thing. But I'm not going to make you cry.
Good. And this isn't the Oscars, although it might turn out to be as we go on. So I'm curious about the connection between coaching and art for you. Yes. And I'm also curious about some of the things that you've learned about coaching. as you've done both coaching and mental coaching over these years. Do fancy one of those or do you fancy making up your own question? Now let's chew on one of those.
But as an aside, this morning when I thought I was prepping for something, what I've been doing is taking down two paintings, wrapping them to take them to somebody's house who came yesterday to look in the studio in the house. and in my house. And I knew that they were coming. I knew that they wanted to look at my paintings. That usually means maybe, possibly. But I realised that I approached the whole thing like, they're coming around for a cup of tea and it's a good excuse for me to tidy up.
So suddenly, both my studio and a room in my house got amazingly tidy. Now, those tidings have been on the list to do for quite some time. It just happened. And interestingly, the people didn't look at brand new work. They looked at old work, which is really good for me to remember that old work is still really valuable, even though I know I've seen it for X number of years and this is where the link is to coaching. Just in case you were thinking, she's on one.
And the link is that what we think is old is new to somebody. Yeah. And so what we think is, old hat actually is new hat. and just as exciting as when we thought it was new hat. That's such an important lesson, isn't it, that I'm also learning, because of course, you know me, I want to share all my new thinking with everybody. But actually, I've had to learn to go. This is the place for new thinking, which is usually in my supervision community.
But actually, lots of other people want to come and really immerse themselves and explore older things. that are really, you know, they're great. Yeah, they are really good. Yeah, and one of my really earliest hooks for coaching was when I was feeling that I couldn't hold the information of how to structure a conversation. I think it was you who said, well, it's what, so what. Now Now what? And that is just so brilliant because it even take a whole hands worth. It's just three. What? So what?
Now what? I did say that, but it's not mine. It belongs to somebody called Dorothy Strachan. Thank you, Dorothy Strachan. I don't know her, it's great, isn't it? Still thank you, Dorothy Strachan. Because some of us learn information, hold on to information, use information. and retain it and some of us don't. And I'm somebody who, if I'm using something all the time, I'm completely at ease with using it.
So when I'm painting, let's say I'm painting in oils, I know exactly how much of this to add to that and how long it takes to tidy up at the end. Then if I haven't painted in acrylics for some while, there's a bit of edginess, I can't do this, I can't remember. And it's the same with coaching. And it's the same with, for me, with the things where I'm not practicing using regularly, I lose confidence that I know how to do it. But if I can hold on to something as simple as what, so what, now what.
I can do it. Yeah, and you've passed that on to the people that you've mentored, I know. Yes, sorry I wasn't able to give Dorothy credit. That's all right. We have done now in public on a podcast. That's okay. So what else have I transferred or that overlaps coaching and painting? It's I think the most poignant for me at the moment, and it might change, is simplicity. my paintings are getting simpler and simpler. And my coaching in some ways has got simpler and simpler.
Accepting that the work is done together, the work is done in a space, the insight and understanding. happens when, I think it's your phrase, I'm attentively not bothered. I feel that I can sit back. And the same is in painting. I'm, I'm, I have a painting, it gets all edgy and uncomfortable. But if I'm painting it thinking, yeah, you're a great painting. I think I'll take a walk around the studio, have a little look at something else, turn you upside down.
there's an ease and a relaxedness in my painting that is held in the painting. As you're talking, I'm reminded of a trip we went to one of the Picasso museums, I think it was in Malaga in Spain somewhere, where they were saying that Picasso learned to be a highly skilled conventional artist before he went... I was going to say off-piste, but that's a bit judgy, because I quite like Picasso. Before he went simple, he learnt to do it complicatedly.
Yes. And I think there's a great quote from him somewhere, which basically says, yes, I learnt my craft and then I spent the rest of my life unlearning it. Which is how we do our training. Yes. Somebody came the other day. We were doing our checking out at end of something. can't remember what it was. And he said, I thought I'd come to read, but to learn and be reading books and doing assignments and doing these things. And he said, actually, all I've learned is to unlearn.
And it's been amazing. It's phenomenal, isn't it? So what are some of the highlights on the way in the work that you've done and the mental coaching and the coaching that you've done? Let's take the coaching first. I think the highlights are the people who you have a conversation with and my initial responses. my goodness. What on am I doing here?
As in what can I offer or include remembering that actually it's not my responsibility and then after one or more times of talking the person who I'm talking to just buzzing with what they've achieved. get so excited about how they've done all of this work and they think it's me and I know it's them. That's so beautifully cooked. In the mentor, the mentor training very much is very much a combination of group work and one-on-one work.
I love the growth and development and the security that happens from meeting a group of people on week one. And it's rather like having a jigsaw, but none of the pieces are smooth. So even if you know who fits next to who, and you've only got six pieces, so it's not a really tricky jigsaw, but nothing fits. And then by week seven, each piece just slotting in quite happily with each other, with themselves, with their own knowledge and skill.
And the delight of being able to, I call it dissect, slice and dice a recording, to find the great bits and to help people say, these are really great bits. and then asking them, why are they great? Why am I getting so excited about the great bits? And then touching on the, that's not quite so great. How can we make it squeaky clean? How can we make it light and pure or unedgy in the sense of jigsaw pieces, but edgy in the sense of a conversation? Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it?
And one of the things that I know that all of us do as coach mentors is to try and find the thing that if somebody did that slightly differently, would just cascade and change all sorts of things in all sorts of different places. I it's like putting rocket fuel in. Yeah. Yeah, and then we don't need to go, well, there's this and there's this, because actually that's not the point. The point is the kind of mood, isn't it? Where does the mood need to change?
Yeah, and it... touching on something we've already talked about it, sometimes it's just the relaxing. Have you remembered to breathe in this conversation? Yes, breathing is a shared endeavour. But I love how we have together, all of us as mentors, learnt to learn to be attentive, but not overly serious. that, you know, certainly for me, if somebody comes in the end of their, of their recording is, is appalling, and they go, my ending is appalling. I say, let's not worry about the ending.
Let's think about the beginning. And then if there's some things in the beginning that aren't great, it's not tight enough, they're not clear enough what they're doing. I just go, well, let's not bother with the end. Yeah, cause the end. Of course the end is, if you don't know where you're going at the beginning and you don't work it out on the way and you don't check in, of course the ending is going to be tricky and it doesn't matter because that will change when the other bits change.
Start at the very beginning. So what other highlights have you had? Team. being part of a team, even working remotely and through COVID and all of those excitements, the sense of team. I can remember right really, really early on, I went off and did something and Claire, at that stage, you were coaching me. And I was pretty concerned about this. I was leading a a group of suited and booted gentlemen in the city to do, actually it was a painting activity.
And I remember you saying, are you a... you have what you need and I'm here if you need more. And I can remember nipping into a storeroom and phoning you or you phoning me and I realized that I was fine but I just needed to know that you were still there. And you were still there. So there's something about team, somebody having your back. Realizing that if you fall over, somebody is there to pick you up and being there to pick my colleagues up, my teammates up.
It sounds like I spend all my time on my knees. Well, I do, the sense of support, doing different training things, I didn't often do face to face, but when I did, finding out that Another member of the 3D team was there and even though we hadn't worked together before, we were completely in sync with each other of what was required and what was needed. the really little things like, there's a group WhatsApp.
And just occasionally something will either something funny or some insight or research or cheering on happens on that. I'm not in many groups. So it's there's a real sense of belonging in a team. It's my beautiful thing. I need to share with our group this book that I've just picked up. Heavyweight. Belonging Without Othering How We Save Ourselves in the World by John A. Powell and Stephanie Mendenium.
I will share that in our WhatsApp group because I think there's going to be loads in there about belonging. Belonging is a theme for us, it, as a team and as an organisation and as individuals? Yes. So what else are you learning? I can say you can ask for another one, can't you? That sense of light and deep, carries into painting, conversations, approach to life, friendships. How recently a bestie of mine has not been very well and she lives a long way away from me.
And she told the story just this weekend because I was with her. how she went to a friend of hers locally and said, did you know that Paranel came to see me? Because I knew a mutual friend. And the friend said, wow, that's a long drive. And my friend Sally said, yes. She stayed 15 minutes saying, that's as much as you get because you're not very well. And I'll come back again. And that sense of light and deep.
of knowing that to appear for 15 minutes was of infinite value to Sally, even though it took me a whole day to do 15 minutes. I wouldn't, I don't begrudge that whole day at all. But that sense of how to hold friendships, really important friendships, it doesn't mean you need to be in each other's head the whole time. But it, it it provides the freedom to say, is a light touch with a deep meaning. Yeah. And there's a loyalty thing, Yeah. which is a beautiful thing, a really beautiful thing.
I got so deeply listening to that. I completely forgot what I was going to say, but that's okay. We'll manage. Let's talk about the artist in a minute, but I just want to ask you, so as Zoe and Ruth, and I'm sure other mentors are going into the future, as they move forward, and you step away, what's the one thing that you want them to hear? Can I have two? Of course you can. The one thing is... Which will be followed by the second thing.
The one thing is you have hours and hours of practice and knowledge. Hold on that. And the second thing is sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. What a great thing. What a great thing. So, Perenelle... I'm glad that you're still going to be in our lives even though you're not going to still be in the business. Yes. And we all smile that you've taken a year to exit yourself. Glad you went in a hurry to push me out, because otherwise things might have happened differently.
And if people want to share any good stories about their work with you, then if you just email info at 3dcoaching.com, we'll pass it on. that would be lovely. Because at some point we'll end your email address. Yes. Partly so that you don't get any emails because that's nice thing, isn't it? Stopping an email stream. So you have one of your beautiful paintings behind you. I do. Is that old or new? That's actually quite old. Well depends how old old is.
That work, I have recently been in Shetland and spent a month up there looking, absorbing, in preparation for a new collection of painting and poetry which is going to be called Edge. And this is from the previous. visit. Nice. I like that edge. That's going to cost me money. Yes, I think it might well do. And I'll be very happy to support you in that. We need to move a few things around so we've got room for another of your big paintings. You'll be pleased to know some of them will be small.
But the big ones are fun. Are beautiful. Yeah. Both my daughters have got big ones, as you well know. They have, yes. fact, one of them decorated their bedroom in order to go with your painting. So where do people find out about your art? Thank you. I have a website which is not too tricky to find. It's peranel.com. And believe it or not, it's up to date.
It's... has a blog which helps you understand how I think or not, full of random thoughts, not specifically about painting, but about life and decision making and how and what and why. And it also has galleries of within the website of different paintings. So at the moment I'm holding everything very tightly because I've just entered six paintings to a London exhibition. and I've got to wait another seven days before I know if any of them have been accepted.
Wow. Which reminds me of very early story. Yes. Tell me more. Where we bought that triptych that you'd painted that was in the Royal National Watercolour Society. It's going to be the same gallery but a different show. And then you sent me a text and went, do you still want that painting because somebody wants to buy it?
Yeah, which is, it's interesting to hear that because I do feel that if somebody expressed interest in a painting and then somebody else wants to buy it, I have to honor the interest first. Although it was in a gallery and therefore it was a little tricky to do that bit. And we love the one that we did subsequently buy from you. Yes. And it's in your main living room? It is. the focus of our whole living room. It's a seascape, which is your greatest thing, isn't it?
Although I notice now you're into trees. Sea will win, hands down. But trees, yes, I'm going into the tree studio tomorrow for 10 days. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Well, Perenelle Barnes, this isn't the end of our friendship. don't know, I hope not. Not after 18 years. No, isn't the end of our friendship at all. But it is the end of your season with 3D Coaching.
I know that lots of our listeners have been impacted by you and we all want say a huge, and the team wants to say a huge, huge, huge thank you for everything that we've learnt from you. And I thank you for everything I've been taught. and all the bits you brought, which was a lot. So thank you. Thank you listeners for listening. Perenelle.com is the place to find Perenelle's paintings.
And if you want to say a massive thank you to her, email info at 3dcoaching.com with your messages and they will safely be passed on. So thank you. Thank you Perenelle for coming. Thank you Claire for this time. What a treat. Bye. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, we'd love you to share the podcast with a friend or leave a comment on social media. And if you'd like to become a regular at The Coaching In, you can subscribe on Podbean and all major podcast channels.
We look forward to welcoming you next time. You've been listening to The Coaching In, 3D Coaching's virtual hub. For more information, check out 3dcoaching.com.