You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching's virtual pub where we enjoy conversations with people who engaged in the world of coaching. week's edition of The Coaching Inn which is an open table. My name is Claire Pedrick, I'm your host and today I'm in conversation with some lovely coaches about breath work. Just a reminder that if you don't follow or subscribe to The Coaching Inn please do do that on the platform where you listen to your podcasts and then you can get every episode as a merch.
So today we have all kinds of lovely people, it turns out some of them know each other so that's even better. So we have Deb's right, Farah Govani, Joe Wharton, Yousuf Costu, Jim Robinson and Anna Maria Chirila. Anna Maria, it was your idea. This? Yeah. tell us, tell us a bit about you and what made you say we must do a coaching in on breath work. Yeah. Hi everyone. Hi Claire. Thanks for having me. I am Anna Maria Cirilla. I am a mother of two great girls and I'm a wife.
I'm a notary public in Romania and I've been running my law firm for almost 15 years now. I'm also a certified coach. I began my coaching journey to well, during the pandemic, actually, when I pursued a master's in clinical psychology, then I decided to continue with coaching. and I did my training at Henley Business School. I completed the executive program, the PCC, in July last year and I have been an associate at the Henley Centre for Coaching ever since.
And so what's the interest in breathwork? I just discovered this tool that we all have at our disposal, which is really basic. And we can use this tool to influence our, and directly influence our nervous system. As you might know, nervous system has two branches. It's got the parasympathetic and the sympathetic arm. The parasympathetic is part of our relaxation response. So it conserves energy and it helps us to calm down. The sympathetic arm on the other hand is part of our stress response.
It's involved in the so-called flight-fight-freeze mode and it enhances all our vital functions. It prepares us for action and for survival. And what is amazing about breath is that we can influence, we can switch on or off both of these systems by performing a particular breathing pattern, depending on the state we're in and depending on the consequences we want to produce. Yeah, great. Thank you. So we have control of our breathing.
Yes. So The next person I invited was Farah because I knew that she'd be really interesting coming. So Farah, tell us about you and your interest in breathwork. So, my background is coming at it from a different angle, which is what makes this very exciting for me, for us to explore together. So, I've been practicing mindfulness for almost 20 years now, and I've been teaching mindfulness since 2015, and I've been coaching since around then as well.
And for me, Well, what started off almost 20 years ago as a coping tool for when my first marriage ended has kind of evolved over time to be how I choose to live, to really set the intention to be present every day. I don't ever succeed, you know, because moments unfold and the mind goes all over the place. But that is my intention because it brings out the best, the real best in me.
It brings out compassion and courage and creativity and it's It literally helps me stop and smell the roses to really appreciate the little stuff as well as the big stuff. And then when fight, flight or freeze is triggered by something unpleasant, unwanted, difficult, my mindfulness practice helps me be with that difficult stuff in a skillful way. So for me, it's less about using the breath as a tool. and it's about using the whole body as a barometer.
So it's not about manipulating the body or breath in any way, but it's about discovering and then responding more wisely. Thank you Farah. So I know some of us have a deep interest and experience. I mean, obviously we all breathe. Some of us are here because we're interested in hearing the conversation about the subject. So I'm going around in the order I think you signed up for this. think Joe you signed up next so what's your interest and who are you? Yeah thank you Claire.
So yes I'm a writer, researcher and coach and I'm really interested in this because I've dabbled a fair bit with breath work so like lots of people kind of jumped on the Wim Hof bandwagon and was doing his crazy breathing, which I'm sure some of you will be familiar with and you can tell me whether I'm silly for doing that or not sometimes. I also read James Nestor's book called Breath, which I found really helpful just for getting me into the topic of breathing.
I think what really interests me in the topic is I think a lot about how do we change as people, so how do I change? How do we help to facilitate change in others? And I think traditionally as a 21st century Westerner, I think about change, you know, kind of coming from the head. So, you know, you get your thoughts right, and then you'll get your feelings right, and then you'll get your actions right, that kind of cognitive behavioral approach, which obviously it can work in that way.
But then over recent years, I've become more interested in how can we work from the ground up? how can what the things that we do with our bodies and the emotions that we generate, how that can then shape our thinking and our perceiving. So I'm quite interested in things that we can do with our bodies that will then shape how we feel and what we think.
So that's kind of what's drawn me to this conversation is to learn some ways that hopefully I can do that more for myself as a human and as a coach, but also for perhaps working with clients as well, things that might be useful for them in their change journeys. Thank you, Joe. So sticking with order, think Deb's you were next.
So there might be some similarities here with what Farah said because unbeknownst to me, she's here and we met several years ago when she actually was my mindfulness teacher. still work on mindfulness, which has been revolutionary to me. Mindfulness has been in terms of just my being. So very quickly about Myself, my background is in defense. I was in the Royal Air Force for 23 years before leaving and focusing on being a coach.
I now do most of my coaching in the defense sector, very much looking at developing people's leadership. Now, for me, leadership is just the very art of being human. It's just how we connect with the world. And my view of leadership has got sort of three parts to it. One is positive psychology, which is building people up, it's strength-based. It's very much looking at hope and optimism and how things are done well.
The other corner of that is coaching, where you facilitate the space for others to be the best they can be. But the third part of that triangle is mindfulness. It is having that space between an action and your reaction. so that you are consciously choosing to respond. And so often within that space, what happens is that you breathe.
And definitely when I'm working with people in defense, where quite often they are being overtaken by the physical reactions in their body, whether that's adrenaline, whether that's stress, anxiety, to be able to offer something that just lets them breathe. is unbelievably powerful. So that's where my interest in this comes. Great. Thank you, Debs. Yousuf. Thanks, Claire. Yes, I'm super interested in breath work and mindfulness. And I'm a coach and a storyteller.
So yeah, when I saw the email, I think it was an email advertising or inviting me to this. I thought, yeah, I've got to be here for this. Joe, I don't think you're silly for practicing the Wim Hof breathing. I find it to be quite an effective practice. I actually did it this morning for the first time in a long time. And yeah, there's a real visceral relaxing of your nervous system and letting go of tension, you know, which is just super beneficial.
And yeah, I've been practicing sort of mindfulness and meditation for a good few years now, and can really see the effect it's had on not just me, but the people around me. And, you know, I get told all the time that I've got this calm energy. And it kind of makes sense from the work that I'm putting into myself to have that sort of energy and that sort of presence.
Yeah, and just kind of echoing what everyone said, like, I think there's a lot that humanity can gain from talking about this more, practicing it more, and just, diving deeper into it. Great. Well, good news, Jim, what brings you to the conversation? So, I'm... I've also, well, just, actually last week submitted all my final stuff for my PCC at Henley. So that's now out of the way.
But I've myself up as a coach, an executive coach who supports that with a whole load of wellbeing kind of offering. So I'm a personal trainer, Pilates instructor, nutritionist, and This is kind of an area where the link between the kind of mind and body, which I guess until relatively recently, I was kind of not aware of how much your mind can influence your body.
But the positivity and kind of relaxation that you get from the breath work and the mindfulness, you you can lower your oxidative stress. You can... do all sorts of things with breathwork as the guys have been saying. And it's just a really interesting topic. I was just actually doing a post earlier on about rage and the fact that the impact of rage, you it can reduce your blood vessel dilation by 50%. And the big impact is kind of 40 minutes after it's kind of happened.
So people are having heart attacks kind of after they've had a kind of a blow up, you know, and things like breath work and mindfulness can help clients or anybody, but clients particularly as obviously it's an area of interest, keep calm and think before they overreact. So anything that can help you just be a nicer person as well is a really good thing. So that's why I'm interested to be here. Thank you. Well, everybody's so welcome.
My interest is that I just notice whether people are breathing or not. So I'm really curious about what I'm going to learn about it. But I come from a very pragmatic, I'm not sure you're breathing. Might taking a breath be a good idea in my coaching, which is really seeing when somebody stops breathing, which is really evident more than you'd think. in a really interesting way. So we've heard all sorts of different sides to what might be defined as breath work or breathing or staying alive.
You know, a very fundamental human need, but also something that we bring to everything that we do. And I'm just wondering who wants to kick off having heard all these different lenses on breath work. What are we noticing? Jim? It's interesting. just know that I was good to give a little bit of thought because I thought I might be asked to say something. So I thought I better think of something before I come on. I don't want to get caught out like last time.
know, I think, as I was interested in what people think, if you're coaching somebody and they're really concentrating on what they're what they're thinking, you've asked them a question or you know they're exploring something and they're really thinking. Would you consider that to be mindfulness? Great question. I'm gonna offer that one to Farah. My short answer is no. When I find that when somebody is thinking deeply, then they are thinking deeply.
So for it to be a mindful awareness, they'd have to be aware that they are thinking deeply and aware what's happening in their bodies at the same time. And sometimes that might be happening, but often I find, like to Claire's point about noticing that they're holding their breath or whatever, often when people are deep in thought, they're not necessarily aware of their entire experience. And there's something about mindfulness that it's also about the attitudes we bring.
Is there a patience to it, a kindness to it? And there's, nice attitudes to it and often when people are deep in thought it's pure thinking. So it's concentration but I wouldn't classify it as mindful awareness. And a somatic response to that, of course, might be to invite them into that next piece. Absolutely. What are you feeling or experiencing in your body? Yeah. Evoking that border awareness.
Yeah. Yeah. Ale Maria. Yeah, I was just thinking, you know, when I started coaching, I used a lot of breath work, especially in the beginning of my sessions. And I thought they were really helpful and useful, but then I started thinking, whose interests am I serving here? Am I serving my own interests, you know, to calm myself down or am I really serving the client?
Well, obviously I would ask permission before doing the breathing exercise, but I mean, does the coach really have a choice to say no? I mean, I was asking like, Okay, what would you say about a breathing exercise? Would you be up for it? they said, of course, let's do it. And then I started thinking, wow, maybe I should not presume that they're all anxious. Maybe I'm the one who's anxious. Maybe I need to deal with my anxiety before starting the session.
You know what you're describing there is such an interesting thing because it opens up the question about who leads and who follows. So it may be that somebody likes breathing and enjoys that kind of breathing exercise at the beginning of a conversation, but if we lead it, they will follow us. And I've listened to recordings where the coach has said, let's whatever, let's relax, let's be, that's whatever. But you can tell through the rest of the conversation.
that because the thinker starts following the leader of coach in the exercise, they will often continue to slightly follow the leader of the coach through the conversation. So it's not unusual for a coach to bring a recording to me and go, there was something a bit off about this and I don't know what it was. And quite a lot of times it's because they've done something really beautiful at the beginning, but they led. So a stronger question is how would you like us to begin today?
And then if they say I'd like us to do that breathing exercise that we did last time, the next question is do you want to lead it or shall I? Because that just is the tiny difference between who leads and who follows. And those tiny things make such a big difference. What are others response to that? You said if you look like you've got something emerging.
I was kind of thinking a bit more about Jim's question, actually, and maybe just to find that distinction about like, what exactly is mindfulness, like how do you define it in that given example. And I think it's its presence, right. So if you're deep in thought, then think you're not present in the moment, you're kind of somewhere else. But that awareness that Farah talked about is would be like, yeah, you'd be deep in thought, but then in this present moment aware that you're deep in thought.
So that piece about presence, I think is quite important when talking about mindfulness. As you're talking, I'm thinking about how people look away. it's almost as they go on a little bit of a thinking journey don't they? Let me just think about that. but you're describing something different, you? It kind of ties in a little bit, think, that kind of looking away, maybe a lot of the time is actually kind of coming away from the present moment, your eyes kind of gaze off a little bit.
And then when you're back into the present moment, maybe you're making more eye contact with the person you're talking to. Obviously, it's not all black and white, but that's kind of rough feeling I get from this kind of thing. to others things. Something I'm thinking that would be quite helpful. I quite like to hear what people have actually done. And so you've talked, you know, talked a little bit already about the importance of not leading.
And I think obviously this goes broader than just talking about breath work because clients never, in my experience, normally when you suggest something, they'll generally say yes, I'd love to hear kind of how you bring potential breath work to the table in a way that isn't leading. But also be It'd be lovely to hear some examples of how, yeah, having introduced it, what it actually looks like to do some breath work with a client in a session for someone like myself who hasn't done that before.
Yeah. Thank you. Great question, Joe. Who would like to respond? I've got an observation which doesn't answer your question, but just where I find it quite interesting is that I definitely find I use breath work and mindfulness to support me as a coach. It's not yet something I've brought into work with clients on. And I'm quite often questioning myself about that as to whether that's because I feel that I need more credentials in that area to bring it in.
Or whether I feel I'm imposing something that I believe in very strongly on other people, which I suppose Joe just talked what you're referring to there. I do recognize that for myself, it really is hugely beneficial and is something I would do before most sessions just to make sure I've got that presence that is quite difficult to sustain if you've got a head full of all sorts of things. It's almost an indirect benefit that I think I bring to my clients by doing it for myself. Joe?
Yeah, can I just ask Deb, so when you breathe, can you tell us what that looks like? in just, you know, just the nuts and bolts, how long, how many breaths, how long are the breaths, how long on the in, how long on the out are you holding in between? I don't know, just kind of, yeah, what kind of, works for you and what effect do you find that then has on your body and your state of mind and your presence as you go into a session? I suppose it really does vary.
So sometimes it will be a 10 minute meditation where actually I'm not forcing the breath. but it is a more mindful space, which I think would be sort of the traditionally what Farah would look at in terms of mindfulness-based practice.
If actually what I'm needing to do is connect more with energy, then I'll most probably be doing exercises where I do some very deep breaths, sort of connecting with the belly and breathing all the way up to then breathe out through the nose for quite a long period of time to really... sorry if anyone's eating or got a sensitive disposition when they put you clear out the pipes. You feel actually your head is empty.
And that I'll use particularly in the morning, you know, when you've just woken up. And for me that often looks like, I think it's, I call it box breathing. I'm sure there's lots of different examples, but where you read out for four seconds, hold your breath for four seconds. breathe in for four seconds, hold your breath for four seconds and go around a box that you're visualizing so that you know you can reconnect. Does that help Joe? Yeah, that's really interesting, so thank you.
Yes, and then Anna Maria and then Jim. Yes, I'll maybe answer a bit of your question as well Joe. So I personally love box breathing as well, I quite find like a nice eight second box breathing. It's just really calmed me down. Something I do every night to get sleep is four seconds in eight seconds out, just focus on that. Usually won't get past 10 breaths before I fall asleep. That's just a when the exhale is longer than the inhale, the nervous system really just calms down quite quickly.
And then my morning sort of practice is more of a four in four out a balanced sort of And then for your previous question about like, with clients, one thing that I've done a few times and usually gets really good feedback is it's kind of a mix between like a visualization practice, using a bit of like the spacer model that I learned in my diploma and also a bit of my experience with hypnotherapy, an exercise that kind of, I start with just three.
big breaths in and sighing out through the mouth just to kind of ground a little bit. And then getting the client to visualize. So they might be like at a dilemma and unable to choose between two options. And I'll kind of get them to visualize themselves in the future, having made one of the options. Tell me about how do they feel in their body? What feelings are present? What thoughts that are present? What kind of actions are present in that space that they're in?
And once they've really explored that, get into as much detail as possible, bring them back. with just another sort of deep breath cycle and then visualise the other scenario. And then it just leaves a lot of information to be discussed or not discussed, you know, whatever they want to do afterwards, once they're back in the present moment. But it usually brings up quite a lot and gives people an idea of how they really feel.
So you're describing all kinds of embodied somatic practice there, aren't you, Yousef, with the sort of breathing as a pause between each phase. Thank you. Ana Maria. Yeah, Jo, I just wanted to tell you the type of breathing that I find useful for myself because it's... I use the cyclic sighing. I don't know if you've heard about it. It's two inhales and extended exhale. So a longer exhale. I've read a really nice study about it and it says it's really, really effective.
And I use it in the morning. I do it for five minutes and it calms me down and it just, it's great. I feel it instantly. Thank you, Anna Maria. Jim? Can I, before I say my question, Anna Maria, is that the one where you breathe kind of almost right in and then try and do another breath on top of that? Exactly, yeah, like the side leg. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it. The other one that I use is, Joe, where you breathe in.
fully through your nose and then out through your mouth like you're blowing through a straw through kind of pursed lips. That also has a very calming effect as well. That's just one that I've come across. Could I go back to Claire's question, which was how to introduce it? Yeah. That's something I'm not, although I use it myself as Deb's was saying. but she does, I've not used it with clients. And I'm just interested in how you'd introduce it without leading. Well, can I offer one thing?
The first way to introduce it without leading is that they aren't breathing. So it's like, how do they lead into it? So that would be a very obvious place to do it because you will probably notice that they're not breathing. So you might say to them, I notice you're not breathing. I'm picking up so many tips from yours. Fantastic. But I would start by saying I notice you're not breathing. And now I'm going to go read some books and then know what to say next.
Or look at the transcript of this recording. But I might say, you know, what's useful for us right now? And they'll probably go, I don't know. And then I'd say, do want us to actually do some breathing? But what I would not do, which I know not everybody agrees with me on this, but I would not explain in the session what we were doing. So I wouldn't say this is called this kind of breathing and it does this and it does that and it does the other.
However, at the end of the conversation, if they wanted to know, after we'd finished doing the work, I might offer, if you want to do that again, this is what we were doing. Because there's a danger that we can turn it into a science lesson. Farah? And the other thing I love about that, as well as the danger of turning it into a science lesson, is that it's about the experience. And what difference did it make in the moment?
It doesn't matter in that moment what the research says or what the books say, whatever. It's like, how helpful was this? And what was the impact of it in that moment? It's all about the experience. Yeah, absolutely. So the temptation is to go, I've learned about this. But that can be later if they want it and not if they don't. Ana Maria? No, I was just thinking, you know, that coaching is, I mean, by default, it has to do with a lot of uncertainty.
We have no idea where the thinker is going to take us. So I think it has to do with a lot of anxiety by default. it would be really useful to introduce breathwork somehow, you know, just to bring that physiological arousal down. And yeah, it's a good question. How do we introduce it? When do we introduce it? How can we do it in a smooth manner? Para! And I totally agree that it'd be really useful to introduce something if people want it to work with uncertainty, and so on.
But I'm really open to it not being mindfulness. I'm really open to it not being breath work. You know, I've had people start by saying, I just need to pray for my own. I'm like, for it or whatever their thing is. I often ask, What do you need to be fully present for our work together today or to let go? If I know they've come from back to back meetings, what would be helpful to let go of stuff? How would they know though, if they haven't done it yet? That's the paradox.
Then like Claire said, you know, that I don't know. And then you say, would it be helpful if I offered, you know, made a suggestion? But so often they do. Like, I think so often we do know just how nice a deep breath can be, even if we can't articulate it, when you're invited to just pause, people do just kind of go, and let it out. So I think there is something innate in there as well as all the controlling techniques and so on.
And others come to me specifically because of the mind from the private clients, that corporate clients, not so much. But private clients, if they found me, it's probably because I've typed in mindfulness coach. So they want mindfulness and we agree in the contracting, would it be helpful to start each time with a practice? Do you want me to guide it? Do you want to guide it? Should we just sit in silence? Should we set a timer? And we just agree upfront and then it's done.
And then it just becomes part of our like pre-coaching conversation, if you like. and others say, God, no. I don't want any of that mindfulness stuff. I'm like, all right. Go on, Jim. One of the areas where I have introduced it is not so much in the executive coaching, but in the nutrition coaching where I've been doing some of that, where to try and get people rather than either doing their emails while they're eating.
food or just borrowing the food down as fast as they can to be kind of really mindful about what they're, you know, the actual the action of eating, you know, the chewing, the swallowing, putting the knives and forks down and just kind of having a moment. And people have found that really, really quite useful as well. Because that's the deal, I'm guessing, that they've come to talk about food and the body. It's one of the things, yeah. They talk about all sorts of things.
Yeah. I get the full gambit sometimes. I'm sure you do. I'm sure. So what are we noticing? Seems like a really powerful technique that a lot of people have used. And it's not secret, is it? Because when somebody was talking about square breathing, know, for in hold, for out hold, it's not like it's a special thing. I know it is a special thing, but it's also not a special thing because actually it's something that they don't need. Nobody needs us.
They just need themselves and a willingness to engage. Deb? Yes, so I'm noticing my breathing. And I think that's such a takeaway from today, just notice when people don't breathe. the other thing that's sort of hovering above this, I think, for me at least, is the fact that everything we're talking about has got a label. And we recognize that not everyone connects with the labels in the same ways that we do. And I know that my own practice quite often I'll deliberately avoid some of the labels.
And I think that then comes back to Farah, what you were saying about if you can expose people to the experience, then actually that gets them shifting away from nervousness about the labels. And so actually that's such a powerful thing to do is actually get that experience of mindfulness, of breath work, even of coaching without the label first. It's whatever we need to do to be a partner and not to be the expert. Clara. I'm noticing a question arising in me and I know how I answer it.
I really like to hear how everyone else answers it around. So we spent a lot of time talking about how these exercises, these practices, these tools might help our clients during a session. And we talked a bit about what we might do, a little bit about what we might do before a session. I'd love to hear how breath work in particular. is helping coaches themselves during a session. What do people notice? It's a really interesting question.
I can't say I've ever consciously started doing my own breath work during a session. And guess the first question in my mind when you asked it was like, I wonder if focusing on that would take me away from being present with the client. And if I am being present with the client, can I still consciously be doing some breath work to keep me balanced or present or would it have to be an unconscious process, which like through regular practice, I guess, can be the case.
But yes, it's just interesting. I don't really have a straight answer for you, I guess. But thanks for the question. And thank you for the answer. I'm noticing a distinction then between say breath work practices and mindfulness practices and probably other practices that I don't know about. Because I know that my mindfulness practice supports me continually throughout. When my attention wanders, it helps me bring it back.
Or when my attention wanders, I can come back to the body and I'll rest my attention in my feet for like a slap second and it helps me ground and come back to the client. Whereas I guess, now thinking about it out loud, to do an actual breath work type practice might be a bit more obvious. If you start making different sounds with your breath or counting, yeah, okay, I can see the distinctions there. Thank you. But it's interesting, isn't it? There are little bits that we can take.
So they're grounded with your feet. I know that my supervisor over many years has told me in supervision enough times to put both my feet on the floor if something is tricky and I'm feeling ungrounded. So now I will consciously do that if I can feel. that we're losing connection with something, but it wouldn't be the whole... whole of a thing, it's just one small thing that we can do in that moment, isn't it? Jim?
Yeah, I think if you did Anna Maria's breath work, I the client would definitely notice that. Yes, I was thinking about that. Yeah, I mean, I've not done it in a, I mean, I'm a bit like you, so if I've not done it in a session, I've kind of had a moment before a session, you know, and I think that's probably good practice, just to kind of get yourself ready and kind of, you know, just relaxed and focused and. ready for the off as it were.
But I've not actually done it during a session, although I'm now going to make sure I've got both my feet on the floor as well. I like that. Ana-Maria and then Debs. Yeah, just a quick remark. just wanted to say, Jim, that I do it before the session as well, because I think breath work, you know, it's conscious, deliberate effort that we put into that breathing. So if I did that during the session, I think I would lose contact with the thinker for a while.
So that's why I tend to do it before the session and it helps me like fully focus on the thinker. And I think that's where mindfulness, Farah, correct me if I'm wrong, is a bit different because mindfulness is about, you know, passive, bringing our passive attention to our breath. We're not trying to control it, right? We're just trying to observe it. Yeah, I've never heard the word passive before and I notice an instant reactivity to it.
But I guess, yeah, it's about observing the breath as it is without trying to control it or manipulate it. Thank you. I'm noticing I'm really disliking the labels between breathwork and mindfulness. I'm wondering whether we're creating something that's not needed. But because Farah, your question sparked that in me because I realising, I don't do breathwork at all. But actually, I will regularly just check in with how I am breathing, particularly if I'm feeling a moment of tension or stress.
If I'm working on pauses, I'll count my breaths to make sure I am leaving enough silence. Now, I personally wouldn't call that breath work, but I don't know whether actually that is using breath work. So, yeah, that's what I think I would do. I'd call that mindfulness. But I'm not going to get hung up on the labels, I think. I think that's wasted energy. You'd probably come up with the Debs Wright method.
I also notice when I'm not breathing, because often there's data there that's about what's happening between us. what's happening, because again it's about co-created stuff. Do know the thing I'm enjoying most about this conversation is that it's so very straightforward. isn't it? We've titled the episode Breathwork but actually we just talk about noticing breathing and different ways that we can do that.
So as we're beginning to move towards the end of our time, I guess my question is what's one insight that each of us has had? you Who wants to share an insight first? Go on Jim. Mine would be making sure I've got my feet on the floor and it's going to be tricky. Great. you. it makes it, actually Farah's bit about being grounded three feet, I like that. That's definitely resonated with me. That's something I'll definitely think about. Thank you for that. Ana Maria.
I think you've said it, Claire, and maybe Joe has said it as well, but I think I'm going to observe the thinker's breathing pattern. And it might be meaningless, but it might have some very, you know, might be significant. So just noticing it as part of the whole thing that we see here or since. Joe? Yeah, I think what I want to take away from this, noticed particularly in our introductions, some of us said this explicitly, and then it's just come up in other parts of the conversation as well.
We're all people who want to become better people and to grow ourselves and we want to help other people in their development. And I think just that the simple thing that breathing really is a way that we can grow. think three words that Farah used at the beginning, she said about growing, becoming more courageous, more compassionate and more creative. And I just love that, you know, that who doesn't want to be those three things.
And just by simply by us breathing, by us helping our clients to notice their breathing. perhaps skillfully, in a non-leading way, introducing some techniques into a session. If we can do that for ourselves and help others to have that as well, who doesn't want more of that good stuff? As you were speaking, was thinking, breathing is an equaliser. Because it's something that we have in common as human beings.
Yeah, think for me, mean, kind of to echo what Annie-Maria said, it really struck home a little bit about the whole actually noticing that they're breathing. So I noticed body language quite often and quite easily. Maybe because most of my sessions are online, it might be a bit harder to tune into that breath. I think, yeah, I'd quite like to going forward, pay a lot more attention to that.
And that might helped me introduce potential like breathwork exercises during a session in a much more natural and non-leading way which throughout this conversation I've thought maybe the way I've done it so far has been maybe a little bit leading so a lot of lessons to be learned there. Thank you Youssef. Debz? Two, if you don't mind, one is the noticing as well. I think noticing when I'm not breathing as well as when my client's not breathing, that would be really interesting.
But also it's that introducing it in a way that people can experience it. They get an experience of what you're offering before you explain it to them. That for me has been something I'm going to take away as well. I often say to people, can you breathe if I notice they're not breathing? And it would be very natural to go see if you can just breathe out for a bit longer than you breathed in, for example. And that would be such a normal build on an observation of what we see here or sense.
yeah, yeah. Farah. Deb's got a... So I was just going to come back to you on that, Clare, if you don't mind me just asking. Would you also just check in with someone's breath? If you weren't picking up on it, would you say, how's your breathing at the moment? Yes, and I think that probably something you saw, heard or sensed would have stimulated that question in you. If it didn't become a, I always ask how somebody's breathing is.
If you're going to use it in the moment, you will have noticed something which will enable you to know to say that. So watching TV, listening to the radio, films, all places to notice. aren't great learning points because they're trained to use breath but ordinary people being interviewed or speaking in you know those are places to really notice what we notice. anyone's around politics, know, lots of places to notice. Farah?
It was something, my insight is around something Deb said, around labels. You know, I did a master's degree in teaching mindfulness and it was very, we needed labels. We were assessed on labels, if you like, definitions of boundaries and whatnot. And yeah, there's thoughts going around when are those clear concrete labels helpful and when are they not? What great observation. Thank you all so much for coming to the Coaching In today, listeners.
Pop comments on social media, say what you thought and what your insights and builds are on what we're learning and maybe we'll have another one in while. Part B. And remember to subscribe or follow if you want to get every episode every week. So. Debs Wright, Farah Gavani, Joe Wharton, Yusa Costu, Jim Robinson and Anna Maria Chiril. Thank you so much for coming to the Coaching In. I feel like we should do a joint three. Thank you having us. Wonderful. Thank you everybody. Bye bye.
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