You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching's virtual pub where we enjoy conversations with people who engage in the world of coaching. Welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn. I'm your host, Claire Pedrick, and today is an open table and we're going to be thinking about noticing in coaching. I've just come off a call for training people in transforming conversations and I was telling them, well, they were saying that noticing is the thing that they find the most difficult to learn.
And I was saying to them that I often say when I listen to a recording with coaches, did you see that? And the answer is almost always no. So I say, look again and notice what do you see? And it's the most important and least formed skill in coaches, I think, noticing in coaching and in conversation. But unless we notice what's happening in the thinker, we aren't in dialogue, we're on transmit. And when we do that and when we diagnose, with what we see, we're actually taking power.
So here's an opportunity for us to open up the conversation. Welcome to The Coaching Inn. Victoria Pyle, Ken Shiu, Joe Evison, Alan Bedding, Christine Cadet, Nathan Whitbread, and Shankar Venkatraman. So let's find out who's in the room. Victoria, why don't you start? Just give us a line on who you are and where in the world you are and what made you decide to come on the Coaching In podcast today? Thanks, Claire. So I'm Victoria Pyle.
I became a coach about three years ago after a very long corporate career. I'm a dual national Aussie Brit currently in the UK. And why I'm here actually, is a couple of reasons. So firstly, I love your work, as you know. But noticing for me was the most transformative experience of my coach training by far. So I think it's just a huge topic for me. So I'm delighted to be here. Good. Well, welcome.
That's such an interesting statement that it was the most transformative part of your coach training. Because I think it just makes everything easier, doesn't it? Ken, hello. Hi, my name is Ken. I'm from Taiwan and I'm currently working in Vietnam. I'm an HR director and internal coach. I notice noticing sounds very, very natural, but when you noticing and reflect back, it's very challenging. So that is why I'm trying to discuss more about that. Thank you. Right. Well, you're welcome.
And we had a bit of a conversation about it earlier today. So I might offer you the thing that I was thinking that I didn't say this morning. Jo, welcome. Hi, everyone. My name is Jo Evison. I'm a business agile coach working in Basel, Switzerland, and I'm part of an internal coaching community where Alan also participates and he made me aware of this group. And Claire, I love listening to your podcast. There's always a lot to take away.
So I feel it's a great privilege to be here and part of this conversation today. I think noticing is something I'm always trying to improve upon. Yeah. And I'm really looking forward to the discussion with everyone. Brilliant. Well, it's a privilege to have you here, Alan. Hi. Hello, my name's Alan. I'm based in the UK and as Jo mentioned, I'm an internal coach. Working for a large pharmaceutical company.
Claire, big fan of your work and quite recently attended the Coaching with Presence course, which led me to think, I don't know what think. There's more part as you know, there's a noticing part. Yeah. That's good to have you here. And actually, little plug, the Coaching with Presence training is now going online as well as on site. So we've got no spaces on site this year now. They're full.
but, and it's also going online and we've been doing loads of thinking around it this week and recognizing that actually there's all sorts of benefits about doing it on site. There's also huge benefits about doing it online because we're kind of freeing up the space that we coach in and changing the atmosphere. Christine, hello. For me, I am a coach in training. I'm about seven months into a nine month PCEC. course with Henley Business School and Henley is also my employer.
So at Henley, I'm a senior manager and I'm really keen to try to embed the techniques of coaching into my day job. obviously I've listened a lot to some of your podcasts and I come away with so much so it's been fantastic learning for me. And why am I on this one today? Well, I'm very interested in the notion of being present and I'd love to know what really I should be looking out for to make those sessions more meaningful and dynamic for the coachee.
Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look. That's the answer to that. Nathan, hi. Yeah, hi. So my name is Nathan Whitbread. I run an organization called the Neurodivergent Coach. I've also recently become an associate with 3D, which is super exciting and neurodivergent. So why this topic is really interesting for me is because I think noticing is the glue that makes conversations happen.
And I've noticed that in my work particularly because there's often a lot of emphasis on diagnosing and all this sort of stuff. If we don't notice, how on earth we work out what we're to do next? So I'm just looking forward to going through that. So as I was saying those things about noticing and not diagnosing and the thing about it being the least formed skill, I think my question to you all is, what are you noticing about noticing in your work? And what do you observe?
I'm trying to change the language. our listeners are going to turn off because they're going to say she just said noticing 20 times in that sentence. What do you observe in your conversations when you're noticing well? And what do you observe when it's not when it's not really as tight as it needs to be? Ken. First thing coming in my mind is about when people are thinking and I notice and it was a great experience.
But when as an internal coach, as a dynamic inference, and I can sense It's pretty easy to let them to answer to expect that I want to hear. So the notice thing. The good noticing is provide a, think it's a dynamic or free environment. would say so. Yeah. So there's something there about you seeing how engaged or how not engaged they are. And there's something about a bit of de-powering. Which is your word, isn't it? I think actually your word is de-selfing, isn't it, Ken?
re-selfing or un-selfing myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And really immersing ourselves in the other. One of the principles of improv is drench yourself in the other. And there's, it's not lovely, and there's something isn't there that when we drench ourselves in the other, then we really pay attention to what we see and what we hear and what we sense. What are others thinking? And I can go next. think what I observe when it's working well is I move beyond paraphrasing what I've just heard.
And I move into bringing awareness about what I think I might be seeing. And I think if I do that well, what then comes next is, is a pause and a reflection and the conversation going perhaps somewhere else. And I think that. That's really what I see when it's, when it's working well, when it's not working, but it would be the opposite of that where I'm just paraphrasing and continuing where they already know. Yeah. so you're describing flow there, aren't you, Jo?
Which is what do we need to do or not do in order for their thinking to be in flow? And one of the dangers of paraphrasing is that we offer back information that they know already. And that stops them being in flow because they start listening to us. But when we notice and it sounds like an offer, then that really gets their thinking in flow and takes the work into their space.
But they're so used to being in dialogue with people where the work is in our space that coaching is a bit of a weird thing. What do others notice? I'm happy to hear a shout. So one thing that comes up for me, which is really interesting is that when I'm really noticing what's going on with the other person, other thinker, I'm also noticing what's happening in me in response to it. And that enables me then to kind of be of service to the individual.
it's, for example, it's how I stopped my athais monster. very early in my coaching journey, because I was able to sort of notice, I want to give some advice here. And that then immediately swings to what am I observing that makes me want to do that and how can I feed that back? So it's that sort of 360 view of what's going on in the coaching session, I find really valuable. And as you were speaking, it made me think about staying in the present. rather than going into your bucket of information.
Absolutely. And listening and observing without thinking about how you're responding, but more listening in service of the thinker. Yeah. Thank you. Maybe I can go next Claire. I was thinking about what Cam was talking about, letting the thinker think. Also that lovely way of using silence. so that, whole, not that whole noticing can connect it with silence while the thinkers thinking and not reflecting back what they thought about and asking the question of what was that?
What was that insight you had for more asking that question about, where do we come now or what do do with that insight? So really getting us back into the present and the future. yeah, so gosh, as we were just talking about, I just kept coming back, this book I read a while back, GCHQ and how they do spying today. And where the relevancy is that there's so much data going on, they can't analyze it all. There's just not enough computing power.
So what they're looking for is the themes or the metadata. And I think noticing quite often is about looking, I guess we might use the language of the headlines and the underbelly, which is the metadata. What's the big thing that's happening as opposed to all the noise that we're hearing? And for me, it feels that's what noticing is. It's actually stepping in and saying, actually, what is the overall thing that's going on? And what can I help?
What can I offer to that person that I'm working with and see what that does and see how that moves them? I like the word metadata because one of the things that I think can happen, and I see this in recordings, is that the coach can get fixated with the things and those are the informational things and can completely ignore the mood. And almost the mood is the more significant thing to notice. That's probably for another podcast.
There's a Quick Tips. video coming up about the things, the thing and the mood, which I think is quite deep and meaningful, but you might think it's crazy, ridiculous. anyway, Christine, what are you thinking as you hear this conversation? thinking that I think I'm touching on lots of these themes that are coming out. But for me at the moment, really trying to focus on what I see during my sessions. sometimes you do, I sense a mismatch between what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing.
So for me, it's about maybe just checking in, is that the real situation or is there something behind it? So I think I'm all about the physical, what I'm seeing at moment and it's fascinating. Yeah. And I think that listeners, if there's one thing that you want to do to develop your skill, it's to learn, is to learn to watch thinkers thinking.
Cause one of the challenges in is when we are so hyper-focused on what we're doing and what they're saying, we do get into this transmit space where we're not seeing the impact of what's just gone into the space on them. But that's where we get our timing, that's when we notice that they've had an insight or it's not working or it's not useful. So I think that the most important space is what's happening in the thinker.
And that really helps us to do everything else in a way that serves the work. So, Ken, this morning, you were talking about offering back the movement, you, as well as offering back the mood? Say a bit more about that. When we, when I, when I noticing there is a move there, but in somehow intertwined with a lots of different things together. And at that moment I'm easily to get stuck because I'm not so sure how to ask them in a more gentle way.
Or at that moment, if I try to mimic their tone, everything, which one is more suitable? So it always happened in a short period of time, you need to react. And that is the things that I feel struggle. Yeah. And there's something isn't there, which is about, you, do you offer it back? Do you offer back what you see here in sense? Less than. the same as or more than you've seen, heard and sensed. That's why they describe coaching as dancing in the moment, isn't it?
Because the answer is you won't know and you're going to have to give it a go and sometimes it won't work and that's okay. because sometimes just a tip of the head. can be enough. or sometimes just a moment, just a tiny silence before we speak can be useful. But it depends. What do others think? think the movement piece is quite interesting, Claire. And, know, as I've told you, I'm standing, which is why I do my coaching now.
Because that if they're stuck in their seats and they're moving in their seats, I think it's important to actually observe that. know, have no attachment to that observation. Maybe invite them to stand up and move to a different place or just stand up, maybe turn the camera off and just be with the conversation as opposed to stuck in their seat. Yeah, yeah, moving. It's the answer to everything, I think. What do others think? I've not tried asking people to stand up and move around.
So I think that's a takeaway for me today to think about that. And would it change the energy? Would it shift something? So thank you. I've come away with something already. Wow. So here's a little tippet, Christine. When somebody else is coaching someone else in your training, you will notice that the thinker will tell will tell the coach when they need to move. Either verbally or non-verbally, and that's when it's useful to invite them to move. So they'll say, I can, these are all real.
Somebody said, I've been sitting on that for such a long time. So I said, how about you don't sit on it anymore? And they gave me a look and I said, you know, if you stand up, or they'll say, I need to take a step back. Let's do that. Or they say, they say, this will only work if you're on YouTube team. They say, you know, there are all sorts of things. I'm just kind of putting out lots of pots. There are lots of things and I need to look at them all.
And then I might say, well, let's put them all out and let's look at them. So that would be using objects. So, so the thinker will always tell us how to work with them. for us to notice that we need to really, really pay attention to noticing what thinkers do. one of the things that I observe a lot in coaching is that people will say, I need to watch more coaching. And then they say, that coach asked such a brilliant question, I must put that in my repertoire.
And I go, no, please don't watch any more coaches coaching. Start paying much, much, much more attention to thinkers thinking. Because that's where you'll do your best learning. And people who have visual impairment are often the best at noticing. Which is interesting, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So Christine's shared a takeaway. That's great. Really happy with that. Who else has had an insight? I've used a different version of that physicality, which is to step into someone else's shoes.
So maybe to invite the thing to bring into the conversation. Obviously not literally, but. someone whose advice they feel might be really great of somebody who they want, whoever that they want to bring in. And actually, what does this situation look like from that person's perspective? do they see? And that's been interesting. So obviously it's got to be the right moment and carefully crafted, but it's been just interesting and bringing a different perspective.
you get them to go stand in their shoes? It kind of depends. think you can get a few of the... Some clients I say, look, this one might sound a bit woo-woo. Can you go with me? And others, you know, I think you just read the mood. But mostly, yeah. Mostly, yeah. And I think that when the words come from them, it doesn't sound woo-woo. So if you say, I wonder if you stand in someone else's shoes, what it'd be like, then it's coming from you. That's an offer, isn't it? Or an invitation.
But if they say, I wonder what it's like if I could stand in someone else's shoes, then just we can say, why don't you stand up and stand in them then? We're just introducing another of my favourite coaching questions, which is go on then. You know when they say, if we could. And then the coach goes silent and goes, I must form a very good question from this. If they say, please start by asking me this, just go, go on then ask yourself. Cause, cause we want to keep them in the thinking space.
Don't we? want them to stay in that space of generative exploration. And for that to be true, we have to stop pausing it all the time while we think about what to do next. which goes back to flow. Nathan. Well, I was just really struck by that. So one of the things around this noticing is I think linked to listening as well, because that's part of noticing. guess auditory is part of process and that whole thing. I think it was when you talked to Oscar that he talked about this note.
Are we listening to respond? Are we listening to listen so that we don't know what we're going to do next? And of course that then has some implications about flow because actually if we're listening and we don't know what we're going to do next, Got to be prepared to go with whatever's coming. And that feels that's, and I guess that also plays into partnership and noticing. So what does, what does that implication for noticing and partnership and staying in partnership?
So it doesn't become a quite a staggered, I guess a friction space where you're kind of pro. You don't want to be doing that. You want to notice and flow, notice and flow. And everything you do is all about keeping the boat moving and helping them stay in the flow of their thinking. Yeah, absolutely. And as long as they're in flow, we don't have to do anything else. which can make us feel a little inadequate.
Like coming back to your point about watching other coaches coach, I think it was an aha moment for me because something you and other coaches have said or coach mentors have said, watch recordings of your own coaching and ask the questions, what didn't I notice during the coaching session, which I'm noticing now, and not maybe about yourself, but about the thinker you're thinking with. Yeah. And that is such an amazing way of learning.
And don't take any notice of what you did, just take a lot of notice of what you noticed this time. Because we are doing a huge amount. When we're trying to ask a question, we're trying to see how it lands, we're trying to work out what to do, we're trying to remember the process, we're trying to be present, we're trying not to be disrespectful, we're trying to be professional, we're trying to do all those things. That's an awful lot of things to do in one breath.
So the less we can do, the better. So I have a philosophy. So one of our, well, it's a principle, one of our coaching principles is be silent and ask questions where necessary. I talked to somebody yesterday who wanted to talk about coaching supervision and they said, I don't know what you're going to think about my coaching. There was a session I did the other day where I only asked one question. I said, I think we're going to like each other.
Because, because actually if that was the question that was necessary, then that was an amazing session. Because we don't notice how what we do lands, always, and we don't notice the impact of what we're doing, sometimes we don't notice just how high the quality is of their processing. And it seems to me that coaches are often in the world of wanting to ask great questions, powerful questions, amazing questions.
But if we're in the world of wanting to ask amazing questions, we have to also be in the world of believing that if they're that amazing, they'll last a bit of time. And they'll enable the thinker to do some really great stuff. But we'll only know that if we're looking and not forming the next question. So silence like that isn't a bad thing. It's a useful thing. Jo, you look like you've got something to say.
No, I was just processing what you're saying, Claire, and it's something that I battle with, actually, after each call when I'm listening back. I am asking myself, could I have asked a better question? Could I have done that differently rather than asking myself, what am I noticing now that I didn't notice on the call? So that's a takeaway for me to go back and reflect on. my work differently. Brilliant. Forget the questions. It's all about the landing.
It's all about the impact it has on the other person. And there's no such thing as a great question that's repeatable. So always learning is, did I create enough space for that person to think? And when did I speak when I should have been quiet? And that's why watching recordings makes a difference, because that's when we really notice that we didn't need to say that thing at all. How are we doing? Ken? I was thinking, even noticing there is a lot of things needs to be noticing.
So maybe for me, I can try one thing at a time and then I can add up. Yeah. Please don't notice everything because if you notice everything, become really, you then become an expert again. You will be like, yeah, noticing one thing. Noticing one thing is just great. Do you know, when I did my supervision training, there was one particular observed piece of supervision that I was doing.
And the observer said to me, well, clearly you were very anxious, Claire, because your feet were not touching the ground. So that's what they'd seen. And they had interpreted everything else that happened in that supervision session where I was supervising someone else as me being anxious because my feet weren't touching the ground. What they hadn't noticed was that the venue had really high armchairs and my feet couldn't touch the ground.
And I was sat there like a little girl with dangly legs because And I didn't want to move in because that would have disrupted the work. So that's a really good example of over noticing something and under noticing other things, but we can't notice everything. Otherwise I go, you just slightly close your left eye and nodded slightly diagonally to the right. you go, yeah.
So we don't need to offer back everything and we are not the analysts of body language, but there are things that are useful to see where we say what we see or hear or sense, which is enough and it doesn't need to be formed into a question. because what we see, or sense is the question because that is where the work is.
And when we diagnose and ask a question based on what we see, and sense, we've moved the work away from where it was to now where it is and they then answer the question that we've asked, which is based on our interpretation of what we see or hear or sense and then they answer their interpretation of our question. Now we're miles away from the work. So the more we can notice and offer and not diagnose, the more we stay with the heart of the work.
And that's why it's easier and the flow's better, because we're where the work needs to be. For me the biggest issue with coaching is that people answer the question that they've asked, we've asked them even if it's not useful. articulately and brilliantly. And it's a wonderful thing to be in dialogue with somebody who answered our question. But if the question wasn't useful, it doesn't move them anywhere. Nathan.
Just as you were saying that, that sort of points to the type of questions that we ask in terms of if we ask lovely tight, neat questions, lovely tight, neat answers, they don't necessarily promote thinking. They just give us an A-star on that question, which may not be the exam we're taking anyway. Just we're in exam time, yes, that's kind of frame for a bit. yeah, I just really struck by that. That's an interesting piece of development for all of us.
So if you're watching videos of yourself coaching, the artist to watch is to record gallery view so you can see the coach on the thinker next to each other and watch the microsecond they pick up what you've just said or offered. Because that's the moment that you needed to stop talking. you probably didn't. So don't feel bad about that.
just next time, watch them take it because your questions are an offer and the moment they've taken the offer, you can let go of it even if your question wasn't a fully formed or a sentence or anything else. But you've got to let go because if you don't let go, they've taken it and then they're just waiting for you to let go. And the longer you don't let go, the more their flow is impacted. Cause they're going, that was a great question. Are you going to stop talking?
But they're never going to say that to you. And that's often where we, where we stop the flow flowing. A powerful lesson for me, Claire, it must have been months and months and months ago now, your coaching to your supervision group was to instead of asking a full question was to just say, shown or, and next. And like the first few times I tried it, was so uncomfortable from my perspective, because I really felt like I wasn't doing enough.
But bringing noticing and looking at the experience of that from the thinker's point of view was, I have to say it was one of the best learnings so far in my house coaching journey. great. That's really good to hear because nobody teaches us not to interrupt somebody else's thinking. But if our job is to facilitate their thinking, then surely, surely we have to learn not to interrupt it.
I get happily frustrated watching recordings where you can see that the thinker is really in flow and the coach just is adding a little bit of value here and there. And the thinker's looking in another direction and then they're going in this direction and then they're going over here. Whereas if they'd been left to their own devices with a witness to their work, it would have been very different. very different. Alan?
Yeah, can I offer, it's not a counter to that, but I recently had a coaching mentoring session and I asked the question to start with you want to think about and then let the thinker just go on ahead telling their story. And when I watched back the recording, I was thinking I could have interrupted there and, and stop that story just to regret it. Cause I was thinking, my God, there's this massive story coming out here. Where can I see it?
Because she just talked and talked and talked and then stopped and what could have gone in there? And that's the difference, isn't it, between don't interrupt somebody thinking versus interrupt somebody speaking. And I can, there's an assumption I'm noticing, Alan, in what you said was that because you said what would you like to think about that what came out next was thinking.
But I wonder what it is that we see or hear or sense that gives us a sense of whether this person is thinking or whether indeed they're just telling us because they think they ought to or because they told other people or whatever. Nathan. think if it's okay, so I'll ask that question. It's just, just, I think there's something about how kind of like, shaped it is. Cause I think thinking looks a bit, I said, I think about birthing, but it's, it's kind of a bit painful and tricky.
Sorry, excuse me. was having a bit of a fit. but it's, it's, it's just a bit tricky. It's a bit, there's a bit of friction. There's kind of like things are coming together and it doesn't sound like. Here's my elevator pitch. Yeah. Yeah. If it sounds like somebody's reading it from a book, it's probably not new thinking. Thinking is often disfluent. So I'm just, but there's a bit of talking to yourself in thinking and a bit of pausing and a bit of silence.
So that's the space to really let them run. But when it sounds like once upon a time I had a story and it's a very long story and I'm going to tell you all of it, then there's likely, not always, but it's likely to be less thinking. So, so much. Christine, you look like you're about to say something I'm noticing. I'm thinking, Claire. I'm thinking. I'm thinking about this notion of these very, you know, subtle noticings that we now might see. And I think now I've got greater awareness around it.
So I'm going to put this to the practice later today, actually. Cool. But I'm also thinking about this interruption as well that we just spoke about. And I think that is such a valid point to notice when you want to interrupt and should we interrupt at that point? Maybe just letting the thinker get comfortable with that silence a bit longer. I think it can't do any harm.
And I'm wondering what the impact might be for the thinker, but also for me, what will I see when I let them go that little bit further than what I would normally let them go by? You know, because I think to a certain extent, It's so tempting to jump in and see what's going to happen when actually they just need to think a bit more. you're describing kind of generative silence there, aren't you, where in the silence something happens.
But there are, I think that interrupting well is a really important skill for coaches. Right. And most of us are really good at interrupting badly, which sounds like Can't you just stop you there? It's like comes to an absolute emergency stop or the one that I hate the most, which is I don't need to know that. That is so rude. And there are ways that we can interrupt where we get in flow next to somebody. So, so.
There are three, there's a quick tip on the YouTube channel about this, but there's, are three ways to interrupt because usually if it's, if it's gone off track and an interruption is required, either we're not talking about them anymore, we're talking about other people, or we're not talking about the thing we're talking about today, we're talking about the rest of the, you know, the rest of the history of time. Yeah. or we've completely lost track of what we're doing.
Those are the three things that need interrupting. And the way to interrupt is to come alongside what they're saying and just slightly steer it back on to the path. So that might sound like and you or so you or and today. You know, when they're going and I'm going to know this has been really useful because my meeting in six months time is going to be absolutely fantastic.
And today, or when you think you've completely lost track of the work and our question now is, and I personally like to start with and or so, because for me and the way I speak, you can make those long words. So you can go, today, which allows you to come alongside them without cutting across. Because I think cutting across stops the flow. And what we want to do is we want to keep in flow, but our job is to keep them in flow thinking and not losing themselves.
So, so, and today, and you, and our question. know, listeners and all you lovely people here today in the studio will think of different ways of doing that. But the art is, don't make it an emergency stop. Because the more we say in the interruption, the more we interrupt. Actually, all we need to do is slightly redirect unless we kind of need to both of us take a step out and go, actually, let's just think about what's happening here. And therefore, what do we need to do next?
But often the interruption can just be a slight steer back to you, the question today. Nice. Thank you. I love the way you bring that back to the present as well. So that gets the think back on track. Yeah. So when they've told you the whole of the history of everything, you can just go, and today, and our question, which is so much more respectful than, I don't need to know that, which is awful. You don't, you don't, but that's probably not the thing to say in this moment.
So we're coming to the end of our time, lovely people. So I guess my question to you is, What's the biggest insight that you're taking away from this exploration that we're having together? And that's also question for you lovely listeners. So, Jo, what's your biggest takeaway? I think I mentioned that I'd be spending time thinking about powerful questions and my biggest takeaway is make them shorter, make them less.
Yes. I'm going to be working on that, Claire, and I'll be trying all the ones that you suggested today. Amazing. So and and are such good questions. My kind of rule is that a powerful question isn't a powerful question if you can use it again. unless it's so or and. Ken, what are you taking away? Noticing the noticing. Yeah. nice. That's very meta. Victoria, what are you taking away?
There was one question you asked us to sort of think about retrospectively, which was, did I create enough space for the person to think? I'm going to focus on actually asking that in the present tense during the session and just noticing. Yeah. Because unless they're thinking, we're not being of service. Alan. That last point, Clare, was the point before about the interrupting the story. And I have a tendency to let people just tell stories.
that's bit learning for me to just, you when to interrupt or how to interrupt and then ask those and and so on. Some people need to tell their story because they need to feel deeply heard. But many people will tell you the story because they think that's what you're expecting. And the art is to learn how to tell the difference and how to manage the segue between one of those and the other. Christine. Similar to Ken, really, I think.
This notion of just bringing the discussion back to now and trying to move them forward rather than looking at the past. Yeah. Very powerful. We probably need to do a whole episode on that, don't we? Nathan? I think for me, it's the noticing sort of an art that you continue to get better at, hopefully. And also it's all in service of Yeah. I'm thinking flow.
I guess that really helps frame it for me because I think when you look at these things at the moment, you go, well, I kind of get why I said, go on, but I should be unsentimental about the thinking flow. That kind of changes it a bit. Yeah. And it's all about noticing and not diagnosing. So I love forensic novels. I love detective shows on the TV and I love working out who did it. But all of that's diagnostic. The question is, what did I actually see or hear or sense?
So I will put everybody's contact details in the show notes. Thank you, Jo Everson, Ken Shi. Victoria Pyle, Alan Bedding, Christine Cadet and Nathan Whitbread for coming to The Coaching In. Thank you everyone for listening. If you want to get the next episode as it drops, please follow or subscribe on your favourite podcast channel. Thank you for coming to The Coaching In. Bye bye. Podbean and all major podcast channels. We look forward to welcoming you next time.
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