You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching's virtual pub where we enjoy conversations with people who engage in the world of coaching. Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching In. I'm Claire Pedrick, and today we've got an open table with new coaches. I've just gone through the stats of the podcast and noticed that our last podcast with new coaches is our best listened to episode ever. And it's the one that people keep going back to.
So I hope you enjoy this one as much as people have enjoyed the last one. And I'll pop the last one in the show notes. So today I have with me at the Coaching Inn round the table, Emily Raffett, Henny Vandenberg, Beb Ruoco, Maria Fernandez and Christine Brice. Welcome everybody to the Coaching Inn. Hello. Hello, thank you. So let's hear a nugget about your coaching journey. So, and a nugget about what makes you human. So who are you? Where are you in the world? And where did you train?
Would be great. Emily? Yeah, happy to start. So I'm Emily Rappert. I'm doing a career pivot at the moment. So I was 30 years in corporate. I worked in a consultancy firm in a private bank here in Switzerland. And I got to the age of 50 and I thought, this is not what I want to do anymore. So I pivoted. to be much more people focused. So coaching is part of that. And so I trained last year in Switzerland, which I really, really enjoyed. And I got my certificate at the end of last year.
And there was a final question. And I've forgotten what the final question was that you requested. Can't remember. That could be it. That's me in a nutshell. Great. So I'm absolutely delighted to be here. That's great to have you. Penny. Hello. Good morning. I'm here in Canada and much like Emily, I too did a pivot. I was serving in the Canadian Armed Forces up until October of 2022.
And I have to laugh because it was much like you've explained Claire in coaching conversations how in the last few minutes these big insights can happen. So it was in my last year of serving in the military where I had an opportunity to be doing some conflict management coaching with D &D within my organization that I had the insight. It's like, yes, this is where I want to continue being is coaching.
And so after I retired, I went back to university through the University of California Davis and got my life coaching there. So I'm just in that building block frame, time frame, and looking to launch just in time for International Women's Day. So I guess for me, the human behind the couch, it's that humility and curiosity that I kind of like to lead with. Welcome, Penny. And it's always amazing to have people come to the Coaching Inn in the middle of their night. So kudos. Thank you.
We'll keep pouring the coffee. Welcome. Hi, Claire. Good morning. I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. So thank you for having me on the podcast. So about me, so I'm still in corporate world. I'm still a marketeer working with corporate businesses. I'm very passionate about consumer insights, so the behavior of people. And what got me into coaching was mentoring my niece for her university exams.
So that was the beginning of the journey, which then took me to completing the PCC at Henley last year, in November 23. And a whole new world of passion for coaching has emerged. I'm currently on the MSc program. and just loving the whole journey, just learning and loving every experience to go with it. Wow, thank you. The human behind the coach, I really love people. I'm just very curious. Why do we do the things we do? That fascinates me. Amazing.
And you've just got to 10 ,000 followers on LinkedIn. I have, which is completely madness. We will join you in a little celebration there. thank you. Yeah. So Maria, welcome. Hi, thanks, Claire. Hi, everybody. I am Maria. I like to say that I'm a coach and I'm a maker. I support early and mid -career people and maybe we'll get into that later on as to why. I've been coaching with a big C since August last year and I also went to Henley.
I feel like I've had a coaching approach while I was working as a leader slash manager in the past, sometimes annoying my colleagues by asking them what they would do rather than what I think they should do. and in terms of the human behind the coach, I think I'm really interested in holding space and allowing people to come to their own conclusions about what success is for them. Cool, and you can't just say I'm a maker and then not say anything about it.
Yeah, so I think I always have... loads of hobbies and I can't seem to shake them. But I knit, I crochet, but my big making love is pottery so I'm a potter as well. Amazing. A lot of mindfulness in pottery. Wow. I'm hoping that next time we do a new coaches podcast in about two years time that I'm going to be able to say I'm a book binder. But I don't think that having bound one book that's got 16 pages quite makes me one of those yet. I'm a little bit hooked.
Yeah, you've got to start somewhere. Exactly. Kristin, hello. Hello. I'm truly in awe of the group. So I'm Kristin. My reason for starting coaching was a fellow priest. on a leadership program told me I could really benefit. So after a car journey where I demonstrated a poor ability to listen. So I have my human behind my coaches.
I am a parish priest and prior to that was in corporate world in HR in the investment banking industry, live in London, but had, but but I'm American and started training with 3D in, I guess it was March of last year. And I'm now on the training journey toward level one. And part of my role in the current parish I'm licensed to in center of London is coaching other priests toward where they might end up trying to figure out whether that works.
you know, in terms of whether it's actually able to be boundary, but I am loving it and I'm really enjoying the continued training. So I have found it a very liberating way of being and being with people because I think one of my real strengths and weaknesses, is my can -do attitude. And in fact, I have a, speaking of people making things, my dear friend made this for me. Let it go, you don't have to fix it. So I keep that on my windowsill. That's me.
So I've got two questions that I'd really love us to dig into today. And we can go with either or both at the same time or whatever we wish. So one of them is, what are you learning? And the other one is, what do you know now that you wished you'd known a few weeks or months ago? might take a moment to think about. What are you learning and or what do you know now that you wish you'd known months ago? Kristin. I am learning to notice.
And I'm trying, it's so hard to learn to notice that I'm actually keeping a little list of when I've actually done it. When I've really used the word I'm noticing and I'm realizing how powerful it is, how seen people feel. So it's and how much less.
it is for me and my spirit because I think my I used to leave my role exhausted giving out so much and people would love being with me and yet I would find it at the expense of my own space and energy and I'm learning a lot around how The underlying assumption that people are robust enough to deal with their own stuff until they're not. It's incredibly liberating and I can notice and be less control. Control?
Well, I hate to use the word controlling because that's so negative, but I do think I tried to hold on to control. So the letting it go, you don't have to fix it kind of thing. Anyway, that's me. Thank you for your honesty. And I love that because that's a... That's a lovely piece of technical learning, isn't it? And it's for me, it's the journey of a lifetime for every coach to say what we see without judgment. So to notice and to be able to offer that.
And most of us, and I would say, in my personal life, I am much better at saying what I see with judgment. So. Don't think I can carry this all the time everywhere. Because actually saying what you see without judgment is really hard work. It's light and it's deep and it's hard because you've got to go actually what is it that I am seeing in this moment? So that's a great technical thing. So what are other people learning? It could be technical, it could be about the business, whatever you wish.
Who else has got something to share? Maria? Hi. So, Recently, I'm doing a bit more study in how our brains work when it comes to behavioral change. And one thing that's kind of related to what Kristen just said, really shook me about how when things are not going so great, our tendency is to do and to do lots to kind of fix it. Like you said, grab control and the like. But that's completely natural because it's that fight or flight type instinct.
But when you can kind of drive it to more of the restful, love, people -centered stuff, it can really, really help. And it's science as well, so that's brilliant. It's actually what's happening in your brain. And I think throughout my life, when things have got really tough, I've wanted to fight. And I can see that in some of the people who I work with. But sometimes taking a beat and resting and figuring out, you know, what's the most loving or kind thing I can do.
Even in the work environment, what's the kindest thing that I can do can be so much more rewarding. And I've actually seen it from people who I've worked with who just need that space as well to think and to think of something more compassionate. It absolutely blew my mind that it was based in science as well, which is a terrible thing to say for a former scientist, but there we go. I love what you said there about what's the kindest thing that I can do.
Because the way you said that, Maria, didn't feel at all in the realm of rescuing. It felt very much in the realm of enabling people to get their own power. That's a great question. What's the kindest thing I can do here? That might become a little video in the supervision community. I'll credit you. Yeah, just hearing Maria, we're on the same course. So it's interesting hearing Maria's insights.
But what's been coming up for me is really understanding that we are all wired in a different way and how this then takes itself into the coaching scenario or even personal into personal relationships. So what I'm learning currently is just to hold space with the person where they are in the moment, where they are now, and not having judgment. So that's a huge step because in my work as a marketeer, we often have to be right. We have to make the right judgment calls.
So getting comfortable with not having the answers, with not knowing where we're going, with just being there and accepting somebody for the way they are wired is a huge challenge. but it's incredibly liberating as well. Wow, what a great insight, moving from being right to being present. I love that, Feb. Thank you. Emily? Yeah, so I explained at the beginning that I was a consultant, so always having to provide solutions, and that's what I was paid for. And now I'm doing the exact opposite.
So that was a real challenge. And certainly through my training, I think the biggest learning skill for me was listening. and really listening and listening and listening. And we had some very good exercises where we were taught how to actively listen. And that was a real challenge. And it's exhausting, really exhausting to do that effectively. And I was always at the beginning, and I'm sure I'm still doing it now, is thinking about the next question. What's the next question?
What's the next question? Rather than actually actively listening. And the coach is telling you, everything that you need and you're on their journey with them and being with them and holding space as the others were sharing. It's such a skill to do that and it's something that I'm learning day in, day out. To have that space with somebody, learning about silences and the power of the silence and feeling uncomfortable in the silence, feeling uncomfortable with tears as well.
and knowing when to interject. Do I allow them? Because I think that moment is so powerful for the coaching. But when do you step in? When do you interject? When do you hand over the tissues? Do you just allow them just to experience that? Because it's something that they're experiencing so powerfully. But all of this is very, very different to the life that I came from, even though I was absolutely passionate about people and the people agendas where I was.
So learning that and continuing for me to be on that journey, I'm just enjoying this and it gets easier. Every session that you have, it gets easier and easier, but I'm still very much a novice in that space, I think. And sometimes we all get it wrong. I get it wrong sometimes. Sometimes we just get the timing wrong. But what you've described there is that beautiful journey from learning to listen to learning about timing. Yeah, absolutely. And how long dare you keep that silence?
Yeah. Yeah, because I know when I've been in the other seat, when I've been the coach, that silence is beautiful. It's a beautiful space. And I hadn't appreciated it, actually, at the time. I didn't want the coach to do any checks. I wanted to feel the beauty of that space because I was really creating something within myself. Exactly. And actually, often the person who's holding the silence doesn't know they were silent. Yeah. Because they might have been being silent in the silence.
But they might actually have been really quite busy in the silence and we were just not in the way. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, no, you're right. They're very, very busy. Their mind is, yeah, I mean, exactly. Exactly. That brain is ticking over. You know, that's what I absolutely love about working on Zoom, because you can watch somebody in the silence and you can stare them out. I hope that is received in the way I intended to deliver it.
But as the person goes silent, you can fix on them, but they don't feel fixed on because of the slight dissonance in where the camera is and where you're looking. And it means that coaching on Zoom is absolutely, without doubt, the best place to learn about silence. And I would say for me, it's do not speak unless they look at you. which of course they're not quite doing because of the dissonance in the camera.
So there's something for me about really learning when they're looking at you so that you can see when they're not looking at you, so that when they're not looking at you in the silence, you can see when they come back. And that will make your silences super long, Emily. I'm sensing that. While we're talking about Zoom, unconscious Penny, you haven't mentioned, but it's related to this that I wish I'd known. Can I make one quick guess?
Sure. I learned that therefore my background and my position really matters because in my last practice session, I held the silence for a really long time. And my thinker slash coachee said I looked like I was, cause I was sitting like this really engaged, but I look, I don't know how I looked to you. I'm not, I don't have myself view on, which is the other thing I learned is maybe sometimes it's good to see what you look like, right? That's too close.
I look really in base, you know, whereas, you know, and maybe off center, I don't know. So that's one thing I just wanted to throw in when I wish I, learned and thought about how does my zoom frame look and is this too busy? And anyway, I don't know what others think about that, but Penny, I'm conscious humans. Yeah. And we'll come to you Penny in a sec. But there is something about being far away from the screen, being close to the screen. How big are we? When do we lean in?
When do we lean out? How far do we lean in? Because if you're face to face with somebody and you lean in a few centimeters or inches, it's it only feels like a few centimetres or inches. But if you're on Zoom and you're only this far away from, you know, you're only 60 centimetres, a couple of feet away from the camera and you're leaning, you suddenly become absolutely enormous. Just when they need a bit more space. So making space between us is a really important thing.
Yeah, just adding to Emily's point, when you were describing the silence, Emily, and how delicious it was, it just made me think how it beautifully slows everything down. So the silence feels really, really long sometimes. But that's a beautiful thing because it's allowing us to detach from the everyday busyness and actually do some thinking. So I just, you know, what was coming up for me was how lovely that slowing down is accompanied with the silence.
And of course, the really difficult thing for us to learn is to completely be aware that when they come out of the silence, they're going to be in a completely different place. So any work that we do in the silence in service of them is a complete waste of time. So we have to learn how we hold that silence with them. Because often it can be used by the coach going, right, let me just work out what's going on here. What do I need to do next? Penny, welcome.
So I guess what I'm learning is probably to do personal and also business. And that's patience. so I don't know if anybody has done any kind of racing. I used to do triathlons and, and some other, you know, shorter races. And I don't know if you've experienced this, if you've raced yourself, but at the beginning, the starting line, when that gun goes off, there's a, there's a lot of energy at the start. And I have found myself.
kind of going at other people's pace and because that energy is pulling you along. So it's having that patience, you know, much like your journey, doing your own journey, because if you're trying to move at other people's pace, there's a chance of being burning out. Your nutrition isn't going to be what it's supposed to be. So just keeping at my own pace. what I can handle, what works for me has been something that I've really learned a lot in this process.
As well as when I was at UCD, one of our instructors, Laurie Kozart, was talking about the J -curve. And this has had to do with change. And in that time of transition, your performance will be disrupted and there's going to be a reduction and uncomfortableness and such.
So being aware, managing expectations has also been really valuable knowing that in this new coaching journey there is going to be that J curve of change and things might get a little bit icky before they start leveling out a bit. So that was something that's kind of resonating for me. And the other thing, what do I know now? By 2024, kind of mantra is courage plus action equals growth.
And this came from a couple quotes, Claire had Melissa Haig on, and she has this quote, feeling vulnerable in a moment means you're about to do something brave. And, There's another quote by Amelia Earhart, the most effective way to do it is to do it. So I've been leaning into that courage and I've been reaching out to people and stuff and it's providing opportunities and it's providing new learnings.
So that's that kind of... has also been a big part of this journey for me is, I think, this growth. Thank you for that, Penny. I've just had an insight. I appreciate that. As we talk about the J -Curve in our training in relation to how people are technically working, that they'll lose confidence in how to have conversations. But I've never taken that across to thinking about business development, that you're going to have a dip there. and you're going to think you don't know anything.
So thank you for that. I once spoke at a conference with somebody who used to be a professional footballer. And his thing was, don't run too early. He said, if you're playing a football match, the artist don't run too early, which is, I think, one of the things that I heard underneath what you were saying, though. Go slow. So I've had an insight. Who else has had an insight? What do you know now that you didn't know when we started? Well, I'll go ahead. Go Penny and then Kristen.
February, when you were speaking about the silence piece, I was really attuned to the tone that you were using and it was just like a decompression. So not not only what the the thinking partner, the the the client brings forth that were. you know, looking, seeing, sensing, all that sort of stuff. But it's also mindful of how we're showing up, the tone of voice that we're using.
As Claire mentioned, you know, army forward back, but that tone piece, it's all about that nonverbal communication, how we need to be mindful of as we're in dialogue with somebody. because they pick up our mood as well as our sound. Well, I just wanted to say that, honey, your analogy of the race really resonates with me and is extremely helpful, useful, because I tend to do the same thing when I'm, I also have loved doing triathlons and various things and can think of times I got it wrong.
And what I started to do was, to your point about how we show up, what do I need to do before the race? When do I wake up? What do I eat? How do I, frankly, you know, where do I pray? How do I invite a peace so that I'm not so horizontally focused and I'm going at the pace that I know? And one of the things I did in the last race I ran, which I actually think might, be important to think about is I was in, I had to stop at one point, which I've never done ever, ever.
And I think sometimes that point that you made, Maria, about rest and doing the counterintuitive thing, doing the reset, and it helped me finish the race as well as help somebody else who had also was walking, because we encouraged each other to the end, to the finish line. So that embodied analogy has really served me. And so thank you, as well as connected some other points that many of you have made around space and silence and rest and going against maybe where our instincts want to lead us.
So thank you. There's no reason that we can't take a break in a coaching session. There's no reason that even in a half an hour session, we can't say why don't we just take a couple of minutes to grab a coffee. Because that gives them a space and it gives us a space and that can bring new stuff. Feb, what insights have you had so far? Very similar to Penny and Kristen.
I had a bit of a reset at the beginning of the year, because obviously I'd completed my course at the end of last year, it was very busy in marketing. And I just needed a bit of a reset. And I think it's What came up for me in that time is it's really important to self -care because if we're going to give our best as a coach to someone else, we need to be top fit. So, you know, emotionally, physically, mentally, psychologically. So our own inner work, our own self -care is really important.
And so I think hearing about the race analogy was lovely because it, you know, in the same way you prepare for a race, you should be preparing for your clients. So I... I'm still working on this and learning on how do I keep my own cup full so that I can help others feel theirs. She's had another insight.
In the way you said, and then we'll come to you, Emily, because in the way you said that, of course, what Penny said when she was talking about preparing for the race, most of the preparation for a race is the last five years, not the last five minutes. And that's true in coaching too, isn't it? Emily, what insights have you had so far? Yeah. So just to go back to that point, yeah, absolutely.
And sometimes I hear myself saying things to... coaches and I think I'm not really doing that myself but you know I'm not being a very good example. You know things like meditation and things that I just know would be incredibly nourishing for myself but I'm offering that and inviting others to do that and I'm not doing it myself.
So it's something that we worked on during the course that I did last year and it was a very important component and I've definitely learned a lot from that and you know over time things start slipping and you just need to re you know go by need to go back to you know, my the list that I made during the time of my coaching course to to, you know, revisit all the self care topics that I discussed during that time and go back to make sure that I'm personally on track.
The other thing I was going to mention was how nourishing this is. So this community and, you know, speaking to others. So during my coaching course, we had a mentor and a pod. There were five of us that worked together. We met monthly. And we just found that hugely valuable. We were across Switzerland in different locations. Some of us lived in the same city. Otherwise, we met just online. But it was just hugely nourishing for us all. And we got so much out of it.
And it's something that I very much miss now that the course has come to an end at the end of last year. And just being here today and hearing the stories and being part of the community just instantly tells me that this is what's missing. I need to reestablish this somehow. And whilst I'm seeing contact with my other pod members, some are still in corporate, some are doing other things, it's not the same environment as it was.
So that's something that I've definitely learned as well and something that I endeavored to do once I get off the call today. Join our supervision community, the doors are wide open. Yes. Maria, what insights have you had? Well, I'm thinking like putting everything together because I totally agree, Emily, this is so, so great for first thing in the morning.
I've been learning a lot about business and all my preconceptions, you know, you can theoretically know something, but then when you're actually going through it. boy, it's different. And I'm thinking about what Penny was saying about the race. Look, Penny, this is a brilliant analogy for all of us and I don't even race. But this point about patience, this point about letting things be. And I feel when I when I take a moment to reflect, I know and I can identify the times when I was relaxed.
the times when I was letting things be, you know, trusting in my own learnings, you know, that five years rather than five minutes, I felt so much better and I was able to kind of accept incoming stuff, be more flexible, et cetera. I've had a Billy Joel song stuck in my head for the last few months. It's Vienna. And at some point he says, slow down, you're doing fine. And then another point, so down, you're so ambitious for a juvenile.
And I think it's just so interesting that my brain is playing those songs back to me and really realising that so many different things, but number one, patience, number two, trusting yourself and kind of just letting it be has really helped me with my business. Now we've all got an earworm. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But you are forgiven. It's a nice earworm. I can think of others that I would not want to have, but that's a lovely earworm.
I won't say the others that I wouldn't want to have because then everybody will have that one too. Beb? Yeah, as Maria was speaking, what was coming up for me was what I've learned since leaving Henley. And it's just that that's the beginning. You've then got to go through the prep for accreditation and build your business. And it's a personal service that we're giving. offering to people.
So there's going to be people that gel with you, that like you, and it's going to be people that don't for a million reasons, because our wiring is different. And just coming to terms with all of that and just, you know, accepting that and working at the pace that you're at is really important. And I think for me, there was a learning that it's not all go, go, go. I've still got a hill to climb here. And just being OK with that and where I am in the journey. And it all takes time.
It's going to take the time it's going to take. And not everyone will like us. I made such a big mistake last night. I decided to look on Goodreads. I don't know why, to look at reviews to see if I'd got any reviews on Goodreads. So it was stupid. They were all amazing, apart from one. There were 60 reviews. And one of them was not nice. Well, it wasn't that horrible. But of course, which one do I, which one do I go to bed with? I don't go to bed with the other 59.
I wake up at two o 'clock this morning thinking about what this review had said. But I think it's a really important lesson, isn't it, to remember that we are offering a personal service and it's going to be absolutely spot on for some people. And for some people, it or we are not the right fit. And that's okay. Yeah. But I just want you to know that we're all human and it still hurts. So what do you wish you'd learnt in your training? that you know now.
Penny. I think I'm going back to the business piece. Maria had mentioned to there's so many first drafts that come with. starting a business, especially as a solopreneur, is everything's new and there's so much to learn and figure out. And so it's much like that climbing that hill. So having, I think that business component would have been helpful and maybe add some more realistic. expectations around it.
And, and the other thing is, you know, with social workers and those others in the helping profession, you know, they have, I guess, a different, you know, I guess, because they're the registered and such, you know, getting clients and stuff is seems to be a much easier process, they're really in demand.
And I'm finding with, that we have here, like I'm involved with the International Coaching Federation, it's a little bit different because we're not necessarily, you know, recognized by insurances and such. So reaching out and finding those clients or having those clients come to us, it's a much slower process. Yeah, and it, it's changing. But it's changing very slowly. So when I started out, nobody knew what a coach was. Now people think they know what a coach is. So that's change.
But one of the things that I noticed in the UK now is that I'm in conversation with a few people where they're working in the health service and And there are pockets of the health service which are recognizing that coaching is a really important thing. Small pockets, but it's beginning to shift. But it's interesting when you use the example of social workers, because people are referred to social workers, aren't they?
Somebody else is in dialogue with somebody and says, we need to get a social worker in on this. So the social worker doesn't have to do any marketing. because that work automatically comes. Like in the same way, if you have a problem with your taps, you know you need a plumber. Whereas if you've got a challenge with your life. So yeah, and I really recommend Penny that you get yourself into some networks where people are talking about those things. There's a great podcast.
There's some podcasts with Sarah Short, which are worth going back to and listening to. And she talks a lot about them. Also Keely Vuong -White and... Keely's going to do something with us in the community. So I'll put some links in the show notes and send them out to you because there are some good insights there. Who else? What do you wish somebody had taught you?
As you were talking Claire, something that was coming up for me was, people don't usually go to the dentist unless they've got toothache, well, unless they're good at doing their six monthly checks. And with coaching, I kind of never see that people kept fit with coaching on a more continuous basis, but the reality that I've learned is people look for a coach when there's something they need to fix, that they're having trouble sorting out themselves.
So there's this attitude towards coaching that, Say, for example, you're working towards a great performance review. Once you've got it, I don't need coaching now. I've got my good results. There isn't the attitude that it's something that we need continuously to grow and to develop and to build. So I think the way we market our coaching is important. And that's something that I'm kind of playing around with at the moment. Because we're not like a dentist.
You don't really just need to come to us when there's a problem. Although you've just dropped a gem in there and I don't think you noticed it. What was it? What if we were like a dentist? What if we offered people regular six monthly check -ins so that they were already on our books when they needed to come for an emergency? Well, that would be lovely, wouldn't it? That would be the ideal. But I think there's just this general attitude.
that a coach or a therapist or a social worker, you go to them when there's an issue. So what if you thought about the dentist? I'm just throwing that out. I mean, it was your thing, but I'm just really interested about what that might look like. So I drive our relationship, sort of. I drive three hours to go to a dentist who I like. Twice a year, I drive three hours to go to the dentist. And it's really important part of my life. and then I don't have emergencies.
I just wonder if there's something in that. That's all. something to reflect on, I think. Yeah, yeah. Because it's normal, right? I mean, some people don't have a dentist. Interesting. So what was our question that we were thinking about? What do you wish people had told you? Kristin? So this is a little bit of a pivot, but I guess, so I'm not, perhaps as of now, as brave as the rest of you in putting out my own shingle, so to speak, but thinking about it.
And so because my... latest role in the Church of England is involving actually coaching other priests. I perhaps naively thought that could be part of my training. Until the brilliant supervision community I went on, Coffee Morning, where two amazing experienced coaches helped me think through the fact that something that I'd already twigged, which was this whole confidentiality issue with respect to the fact that we are all reporting to the same kind of vicar and et cetera.
So anyway, I wish I had perhaps, I'm not sure I could have thought it through before being in it, but I'm still working through the boundary setting and whether I am actually incorporating coaching tools into my job or whether I can actually be. a coach and I'm sort of coming to the conclusion that it's more the former and not the latter because of the inability to truly promise confidentiality.
I mean not withstanding safeguarding issues, we can't fully promise confidentiality but and I will say that the training, the level one training has been brilliant in making sure the master classes you've done on ethics Claire and as well as the action learning set that Sue did has you know, bubbled this up very clearly. So I'm not sure it's a, I have had in the training, but I guess maybe I was a bit naive to think that this job would be something I could get my training hours through.
So I might need to do the outside stuff in addition to, and I haven't quite wrestled with how to do that. So we can perhaps have a conversation about that offline. great. Thank you. I would love that. Emily. There's something that I'm introducing myself. So I wasn't taught it per se. So it's around the use of props and creativity and which I absolutely love. So I'm very much a creative person. I like art. And so what I introduce into my sessions is the use of the prop somehow.
So I have a little flower. It's one of the... ones I use quite a lot, if you can see that, which flops when it's not in such a good place. So I'm self -teaching, I suppose. But it would have been wonderful if there was some sort of session. I mean, maybe there are coaching courses which actually cover that and the use of the prop. So I partially do my coaching online. Partially, I've got a studio, which is also my art studio.
So it's very much... and the spur of the moment, I look around and see if there's something that will be helpful in the conversation. And it definitely creates those aha moments when somebody is given a prop which really supports their thinking. And one example that I gave the other day is that she felt like the weight of the world was on her shoulders. So I gave her this really heavy stack of books that was very heavy and then a feather.
And... you know, she knew that her journey was wanting to go towards this, this feather, this likeness and what that meant to her. It's hugely powerful. And as I said, I'm self teaching at the moment. And it's something that, you know, I certainly feel is adding something different to my practice. So we were talking about being commercial and having a unique selling point. And that's something that I want to build on in the market. But maybe that's something that's slightly different to.
to what other coaches are offering. That's such a great example. I call that change the medium. Can I just make an offer, Emily? Yeah, of course. The art of that is just don't ever coach in an empty space and make sure that they're never in an empty space because you can use whatever is available. Yeah. So the most transformational thing that I have coached with in the last month is this box of tissues. Because I invited the person, they said they felt they were carrying a lot of stuff.
So she said she felt heavy, so you gave her some heavy books. So in that moment, those books, you might never use those books again. That's what I really love about what you said. Because somebody else might never say the same thing, but next time you can use something else. So just don't ever coach in an empty space. But the person said that this thing is always getting in the way. So I said, what if you just put this thing just for the moment to one side, let's see what happens.
And my goodness, boom, everything changed. I don't know what they moved, they moved something at their end. So the art of that is never, ever, ever coaching an empty space because you always need stuff which completely justifies the state of my desk. Penny. I know, I justify mine. Good, good. Penny and then Maria.
I am just curious around that because I see a lot of value in it and I'm curious, you know, for when you're in a virtual environment, you know, and they might have something on their desk and how do you potentially, you know, work with props when you're in a virtual capacity as opposed to in person? Invite them and do the same thing at your end. and don't make a thing of it. So that was it online. I said, have you got some, it feels like that thing's quite big.
How about we try just putting it down? Have you got something big? And they got something big and I just picked the biggest thing up and I moved it. Because then I know how many things they've got on their space, but I don't need to know what it looks like. So try it. But the real art, Emily and Penny and everybody, The real art of using props is that they have actually told you what to use in what they said.
And if you want to learn to notice that, then get yourself on practice coaching places where you're not the coach and you're not the thinker. And you can simply notice what the thinker's saying because they have surely told you. We have a coaching practicum, which is low cost, and that's a great place to do that, because you get, I think, five opportunities to watch. But what you're watching is you're watching the thinker thinking and not the coach coaching.
Because it's so tempting, isn't it, in development? You watch the coach coaching, and you think, that was a good question. I'll have that one. But actually, you have enough. But the art is to watch the thinker thinking, because that's where you do really amazing development. But she, you get that. That great example, Emily, you told us, she told you to get the books. And that's brilliant. I can remember one residential where somebody said something similar. And I did what you did.
I looked for the heaviest thing in the room. And this poor lady ended up standing holding this chair. And of course, she said, I said, you're saying it feels really heavy. How about you pick up something really heavy? So she picked up this massive chair and she went, I can't hold it. I said, well, what are you going to do with it then? And that was the unlocker. So they will surely tell you. And I just want to encourage you, Emily, be absolutely, totally radical. Yeah. Thank you.
What a wonderful thing. Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to be even more crazy then. Thank you for that permission. We're coming to the top of the hour. So can we just go to Maria? and then we'll have to finish for now. But I think the five of you are coming back, right? It would be lovely to come back. I was just thinking how lucky we were to have a great grounding in how to be a good ICF coach at Henley.
And I had a very lucky experience in that my tutors were Anne James and Adiola Olidemi, who gave you this kind of... appreciation of what coaching can do. And I guess my learning, what I wish I had known back then, was how transformational learning how to be a coach is for you as a coach.
It's such an incredible exercise in learning about yourself, knowing yourself, and you know, people journal their whole lives and still have... a completely different experience when you come to actually being a coach. And that being a coach, those human elements, you know, sometimes you have to throw out all of your learning about how to be a great ICF, you know, accredited coach and just be with the person.
So I did learn that, but I think this conversation has really helped to underline that for me about all these wonderful things that we've all learned. Yeah, amazing. Learn your theories as well as you can and put them aside when you touch the miracle of the living soul. And you will still be staying within what you learned. And you will, for you as an ICF coach, you will still be staying within that, but it will be held lightly. So here's my suggestion as we finish.
I reckon that we need to have another conversation six months, another podcast. Is that okay with everybody? And Penny, we will have it in the daytime for you. Because listeners... Penny has arrived at the coaching in in the middle of the night. Respect. So thank you, everybody, for coming to the coaching in today. Emily Rapet, Penny van den Berg, Febronia Ruoco, Maria Fernandez and Kristin Brice. Thank you, everyone, for listening. And we will be back. Thank you, Claire, for the space.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Claire. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. So bye -bye, everyone. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, we'd love you to share the podcast with a friend or leave a comment on social media. And if you'd like to become a regular at The Coaching In, you can subscribe on Podbean and all major podcast channels. We look forward to welcoming you next time. You've been listening to The Coaching In, 3D Coaching's virtual pub.
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