You're at the Coaching Inn 3d Coaching Virtual Pub where we enjoy conversations with people who are engaged in the world of coaching. If you're listening to this live Happy New Year and welcome to the coaching in the beginning of series four, who'd have thought when we began three years ago that we'd still be going and having so many exciting and interesting guests.
We've got a lot of fabulous guests coming up this year including conversations around coaching and home education, changing hats, ending mental health, boxing and coaching, how to work with a va archetypes and more. But I'm absolutely delighted that in our first episode of season four, we have Melissa Haig talking with us about courage, which seems like a beautiful word to begin. 2024. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the Coaching Inn.
I'm Claire Patrick. And today I'm in conversation with Melissa Haigh, who he is a fab person and coach. And we met, didn't we Melissa on a Crazy Bonkers Improv day? We did. Indeed, we did indeed. I love that crazy and bonkers. That's exactly what it was. Definitely. Yeah. So apart from encountering crazy Bonkers days uh, tell us a bit about you, Melissa. So, ok. Well, tell, uh, I love that opening question. Right. Tell, tell me a little bit about you. Well, where to, where to start.
So, um, I guess for me starting from a coaching perspective, well, I've been coaching now for, I don't know, about 10 years or something like that. Um, and I'm, I'm one of those people who caught the bug, you know, found out a little bit about coaching, thought, oh, I maybe ought to learn a little bit more about that and then just fell in love with the whole kind of concept of coaching really.
Um And I think that's because I'm a huge fan of conversations and I'm, which is why I'm loving what we're about to do Claire, which is a conversation, right? You just happen to be recording. But I love conversations. Um And I do feel I truly believe that if more people had the conversational skills that come alongside coaching the world, including the world of work would be a better place. So I'm all about great quality conversations. That's what I'm passionate about. That's what I love.
Um And that's what coaching gives me the opportunity to do to have great conversations with lots of wonderful, interesting, curious, odd, unusual, unique and great people. So, yeah, yeah, we're gonna have fun, aren't we? We are indeed, we are indeed. Yes. So I love that. That's the kind of energy feeling part of the journey, which I is brilliant. Can we also have a little bit of the factual part of the journey? Yes, of course, you may, of course, you may. So, yeah.
So um so my, my, the factual piece then, so my background is in learning and development. Um And I've been in learning and development, my, my whole career um and latterly really focusing on leadership development and, and that was where my interest in coaching came from. And I started as an internal coach, building, coaching, cultures and coaching communities within organizations. Um And um then lastly, probably, uh must have been nearly three, probably, you know, nearly four years ago.
Now, um I decided to take the, the, the courageous step into um making coaching my full time my full time job. Um And I guess the other bit of my work, which is important really for our conversation today is that I'm also a huge fan of the work of Brene Brown. Um and all all things kind of courage and vulnerability.
Um And so in 2019, I went and trained with Brene to be a dare to lead facilitator um which is all about building or helping to develop brave leaders, courageous cultures um within organizations. Um And the, the, the joy that came from that for me was really how much I learned about myself. It was a huge self development journey. Um And I learned so much about myself as a human as a leader, but also as a coach.
So I kind of went crikey this, this learning is actually really important for coaches too. So now I do a lot of the dare to lead work also with coaches, helping them to be more courageous, um with their, their, their coaching, their lives, their work. Um So yeah, that's, that's become my, my passion really um alongside the coaching piece, really, this idea of being more courageous with our lives. So, yeah, so that's a bit of a factual piece. I live in Dorset in the UK.
I've got two gorgeous dogs. Um I love to walk and I love to travel. Um probably the, the slightly more personal aspects of me. That's great. Well, thank you. And I love the, the thing you've got behind you that says always wear your brave pants. That makes me laugh so much. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's my little reminder. Um and in the Zoom frame, right? So that everyone else is reminded of it as well when they work with me. Yeah, definitely.
It makes me laugh at the risk of over sharing when my mum was alive. I was staying with them once and uh I forgot my pants, right. And, and I needed my mum to me and my mum were about the same size. So, so she gave me a pair of pants clean and they're slightly mostly like the ones I wear, but slightly different and they are my brave pants. Right. Cos I know which ones they are. So, they're always there in the drawer in a special place ready to wear on the days I need to put them on.
Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love the look. Is it? I love the symbolism of that. Right. What is it that we put on? Um, and this idea of brave pants. Right. Definitely. They pull them up. I like to, I imagine the metaphor goes mad for me because I imagine pulling them right up, you know, right up up to the top and having that feeling of Yes, I'm being held, held firmly by my brave pants today.
Yeah. And for those of you in America, uh we're not talking about trousers who uh you can check it out on Google? Yes, please do, please do. So there are so many places to go. II I I'm really interested in the journey with, of the, of the data lead training with, with Brene Brown. But how about we start there?
Yeah, so, well, well, yeah, I mean, it was really quite the experience and um I, I decided to go along and do it cos it, you know, it was a big commitment, both kind of financially in terms of time I traveled to Texas, you know, so it was a big commitment to kind of go and do this development. But it was one of those things that happens in your life that you kind of go. I really need to do this, I just need to make this happen.
Um And so I rocked up in Texas in San Antonio in Texas for three days of training. Um And, and I, I admit to being, you know, a huge fan of Brene, I'm, you know, I'm a little bit kind of flustered in her presence, um and all of that stuff. Um So I was kind of expecting her to come along and be there for, you know, the first hour or something and then hand over to her team and, and that would be that, but we spent three solid days with her.
And I think the thing, the thing that really struck me the most is she is as she is as you would expect her to be, um, based on all of her kind of videos and all the things we've listened to and we've read, she is exactly as you expect her to be. Um, and she's one of those rare people who 100% role models, the stuff that she talks about.
Um, you know, all of the courage and the vulnerability and the talking about shame and self compassion, all of the, you know, quite difficult topics and she role models. It, she lives it and she breathes it. Um, and she, she brings that energy into the space so to spend three days um with, with her and, you know, look there were 90 there were 100 of us on the on the program, right? So there were 99 other people in the room.
And yet I felt like it was just me and her now that the skill of that as a facilitator as someone who facilitates learning events, I was, I was in awe of that really. Um And yeah, for me, it was transformational, it really was a transformational experience um to be able to have the language and the tools and the space to talk about these topics in a very practical way. Um, because they, you know, they're, they're, they're easy to talk about in theory. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. Really easy to talk about in theory. But actually how do we practice this stuff and how do we live it and breathe it and make it real for us and the people that we work with. Um, so, yeah, it was a, it was a real joy. Um, definitely and huge, huge personal development as well as professional development. Definitely so big tick in the box for, you know, that as a development and one of those things that, yeah, I just think crikey, I'm so glad that I just went with the, yeah.
Do you know what I'm gonna do this? So, yeah, it, it was wonderful. Yeah. Really good. So, live it, breathe it. Practical. Teach it. Hm. I'm interested in all of those. But, but can we start with what's different now? About how you show up. Well, yeah.
Ok. So I think the biggest thing for me, I mean, there's lots and I think the thing, the thing that's changed me the most, I guess from, certainly from, in terms of my coaching work is that I think like many coaches, I have spent my career being the expert, um, and, and not only that, but being rewarded and recognized and promoted and praised and paid for my expertise, right? And, and for me that was, that was, it was such a big part of who I was.
And I know when I began my coaching journey, that was probably, and I'm not sure I realized it at the time. But for me, that was probably my biggest tension, my biggest tussle if you like was letting go of that need to be the expert. Um and recognizing how I might add value when that value is not based on my expertise, right? So, um so for me, the, the courage and the vulnerability that is required to leave my expertise at the door was just really, really challenging.
And I, so I think for me, the, the the shift was, first of all, I really became aware of it, it brought it into my awareness. Um And secondly, it helped me to see how connecting with my own vulnerabilities. Um and my own shame, triggers and my own lack of self compassion enabled me to show up in a way that helps my clients to do the same thing, right? Which is the the the piece that I feel is the piece I bring, right? I can role model this for my clients.
And because most of my clients are leaders, I was like, I, you, you need to be doing this too. This is such an important part of leadership. So I wanna show you what this looks like, you know. Um So that for me, that's been the biggest piece really. I think, you know, how do I add value when I'm not, you know, wearing my, what we call our armor of being the expert in the room, right? So, yeah, that was definitely the biggest kind of switch the living and breathing piece.
That's what's changed the most for me in my practice, I think, and how do people describe that now? They experience it mostly? Oh OK. That's a good question. I think that um I think that certainly my clients will talk about and they don't necessarily see it as me not being the expert in the room. Of course, they don't see it that way. Um But what my clients will talk about experiencing now is the their realization that they have what they need inside themselves, right?
Um uh Or they have the beginnings of what they need at least, um which they didn't realize before. Um And that sort of confidence if you like that, that gives them that sense of do you know what I, I can do this or I am good enough or actually, if I just take the time to think about this properly, I can get the solution that I need to get or I can get where I need to go.
So that, that confidence in themselves, their, their own kind of self belief, I guess, um, is, is what they start to recognize rather than, oh, it's ok. Melissa will give me the answer. If I just ask Melissa, she'll tell me it'll be ok. Right. And like, actually I don't need that. I, I know, I know what's ok. I know what good looks like. I just need to be able to unlock that. Right. So, I think that's probably what my clients would, would notice.
And I think the other thing as well is my clients talk about, I had a client only very recently who, who had, who said, well, what I've realized, you know, in terms of the sessions that we've been having is that, um, I don't have to have the answer. I don't know where it came from to be fair. You know, I hadn't asked something that led them to that point. Of course, but I don't have to have the answer and what a wonderful realization that is for a leader.
I don't have to have all the answers or any of the answers. I don't have to have them. What I just, I'm fascinated now. To see where that client goes. What that unlocks for them when they let go of their need to be the expert. Right? I just love how normal you are. Melissa, his, as you're talking, this is about the vibe, isn't it? This is about how you are not about the process of what you do when you're with people. It's about the Melissa who rocks up in the room. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
And, and look, I, that's the, that's the, uh that's the development for everyone, right? Leader, totally, whatever, right? That's the development for all of us. Um And I think this is also why I love conversations and I love coaching because it, they're all about connection, they're all about connection with another person.
Um or people if you're, you know, you're team coaching or working with teams, but it, it's that connection that fuels us, that drives us, that excites us or it certainly excites me. And so recognizing that people don't connect with you because of what, you know, they connect with you because of who you are, right?
And that's really where coaching just becomes, well, conversations just become joy, pure joy when you recognize that this is about two human beings connecting rather than 22 people just, you know, sharing their expertise or being the, the knower in the room or whatever. So, yeah, I love it. So I was in conversation the other day with Matt um Abrahams who's just written think faster talk smarter, which is about speaking when you don't know what to say.
And we started having a conversation about his martial arts practice and how he, the courage and all the things that he develops and refines in his practices of martial arts person are the things that most inform the way that he shows up when he's doing public speaking or teaching or coaching or whatever. Mm. So what most informs you, um what most informs me?
Well, I think for me it's about how can I, how can I make a difference in the room and how do I make that difference about them and not me and then really building from that? Well, what I'm thinking about Claire is like the, how do you, how do you create difference by, by how do you create a difference in the room by doing almost the bare minimum? Right?
What, what, what and, but also this piece for me around, I'm a, I'm also a big fan of gest out coaching um or the gest out school of thought if you like and one of the things that really resonates for me there is around, we are in the room together as two humans. So pretending as a coach that we don't have some kind of impact because we're in the room with the person, you know, that we can be completely non directive, you know, completely kind of just almost um like like stone. I imagine it.
Right. And, and the client just bounces off. It just doesn't work like that because it's two human beings. Right? So there's something for me about what, what does my, what impact do I want my humanity to have in this moment? And what difference do I want that to make, I guess. And you know, and then trying to worry and I say trying because I'm still trying. Right. I'm not, I'm not getting this right all the time. So or a lot of the time. So trying not to worry about, what am I saying?
What am I doing? Am I adding value? What questions should I ask next? You know, will is the client gonna come back and pay me for another session, you know, all of that noise that we have. Well, I certainly know I have as a coach and how can I just be more in this moment with this other human being? Um And so yeah, let letting go, I guess of a lot of stuff. And one of the things I think is really interesting is that I try, I'm trying to worry less about getting it wrong. Hooray.
No. And, and this is the thing that always fascinates me with, with me as a coach and any coaches I work with is that we, we know this stuff, right? We tell our clients, we talk to our clients about making mistakes and being curious and growth mindset and you know and all of the, we know all of this stuff, right. We know it, but we, we struggle to do it, we struggle to live it. Right. Um So it's this, I, if I ask a question and it's the wrong question. Well, first of all who says it's wrong?
But, you know, does it matter if I say the wrong thing, if I make a mistake? Um, and just being able to let go of that, I think it we in, in dare to leave, we would call it armor, right? All of the ways, all the ways that we self protect ourselves. You know, with all of, I've got this skill and that skill and this question and this technique and um which is all valuable, right? But how do I just keep all of that off and, and, and bear myself here as a, as a just as a human being in this space?
And so very long answer there, Claire to that that's, that's sparked off lots of thoughts for me. It was very rich. Thank you. It may, it triggered all sorts of, of things in me. So one of them is, is this concept that what's the least that I need to do in this conversation for this person to move forward? Cos it often isn't very much. And the other one is that it's usually only one thing that is the game changer in a conversation, isn't it?
And it's never the thing you planned and often it's the, it's the, it's the, not, it, it, it could be anything. And just because that was the game changer in this conversation, it will probably never be the game changer ever again in anyone else's. Absolutely. But, but who can, you know, the rest doesn't matter as long as it doesn't sabotage the journey to the moment which we can do by being, you know, there are lots of ways of sabotaging the journey to the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. Um And yeah, because I think I love that sabotaging our journey towards the moment. What a great phrase because I, I'm thinking now about, you know, we, we do, we, we get unintentionally, we get in our own way and as a result, we get in the way of the client, right? Um And, and like you say, there are many things that we, we might do which might get in the way.
Um And, and, and I, I mean, you mentioned at the beginning about the, the improv workshop that we did together and that whole concept of, you know, let put down your clever and, you know, and, and just say whatever is obvious, you know, it doesn't need to be something clever, just speak, you know, just say you're obvious out loud, whatever it is and see where it goes.
Um It's just such a freeing concept, I think, or a freeing way of thinking about conversations and I love this for con and again, I'm using the two terms, right? Coaching conversations because I, I love this for conversations too. Just whatever, just say whatever, right? Um s speak your obvious, say it out loud. Let go of the need to be clever and magic happens. It just simply does, right? It just simply does. I love that.
It simply does cos we can't make magic happen because when we make magic happen, it doesn't happen at all. Yes. So there's an, so can we come back to courage? Of course, of course, yes, which is the title of the podcast. Thank you for your patience. Everybody tell us a bit more about courage, Melissa. So I think the first thing for me about courage is recognizing that I think when we, we tend to think about courage, we tend to think about it in the, the sort of big moments in our lives, right?
That require courage. And of course, those exist, you know, whether that's um you know, uh leaving your fully paid stable employed life and stepping into a uh an the unknown world of setting up a coaching business, you know, or, you know, whether it's all of those big life moves. Absolutely.
But for me, actually, courage is, is all of the little things, all of the everyday moments, you know, simple, simple things that require us to be courageous, you know, saying, saying no, you know, setting boundaries, um you know, um, speaking up or, or speaking out even, you know, um just those small moments that happen every day that require us to be courageous.
And then I think in recognizing those small moments, the second most important piece for me is recognizing that whenever we choose to be courageous, vulnerability will show up even in the small moments, right? Even in those small moments, vulnerability will be there and look, vulnerability feels rubbish. It's, it's just, it's not a nice feeling, it's not something that we would choose. Oh, yes, I think I'll choose to feel vulnerable today. We would, we would avoid it, right?
So there's this real kind of challenge for us where we want to be courageous in, in all of those small, big, medium size moments in our lives, but we don't want to feel vulnerable. So how do we balance and manage that for ourselves? And so really for me, when I work with people on developing their courage building skills, this becomes about how do we lean into the discomfort of vulnerability, you know, Brune calls that rumbling with vulnerability, but it's all about leaning in. Right.
Yeah. How do we lean into that discomfort? Um And, and recognize that that the very fact that we feel vulnerable in this moment means that we are about to do something brave, you know. So in that moment, as you think, what you're, you know, whatever the thing is you wanna say to the client or the question? And you worry and you think is it the right thing? And am I good enough? And all of those things that vulnerability throws up for us being able also to recognize in the moment.
And that means you're about to do something brave in service of your client. I mean, wow, how awesome is that? So, so I think this is the thing for me. II, I absolutely want people to be courageous. I want to be more courageous with my life. But I've also got to recognize for me and for everyone that, that means more vulnerability and I've got to learn to lean into that, right?
Um And all that that brings with it, you know, whether that's shame and comparison or scarcity or all the critics and you know, all the lack of self compassion on all the things that get in the way when we choose to be brave, right? So, yeah, courage. There you go. And we have to do it well or choose not to. Well, I think, and this is a really interesting point. I think um Claire cos again, I think uh uh I, I have look Brene Brown quotes, right? They're all over the shop.
There are hundreds of them and then most of them are all brilliant. But my absolute favorite is you can choose courage or you can choose comfort, but you cannot have both, right? And what I love about that is the word choice. It is absolutely a choice. Right. Um So when we're on the edge of readiness, right.
We're on the edge of stepping into our courage or stepping into our bravery, our, our moment, it's always a choice whether we, we step in or we turn around and run for the hills quite frankly. Right. It's always a choice. But what I'm, what I try to be really curious about is what is, what is informing my choice in that moment. So, if I do choose, do you know what, today's not the day? I don't, today is not the day.
But if again, tomorrow, I think, ah, today's not the day and next week, I think, ah, today's not the day. You know, what's that about? Can I be curious about that? Can I wonder about that? What's actually stopping me? What's actually getting in my way? But it is, it's absolutely a choice. But I think if we have, if we always turn around and run from those moments, I think we are lesser for it. Um, and in coaching, our clients will be lesser for it too. Right.
Yeah. And if I build on a question that we were asked at the book launch was about, what's the future of coaching in a world of a? I? Hm. You've just described, uh, uh, if, if you, if our choice as coaches is to run for the hills, then we will be replaced by A I absolutely Yeah, I agree. I agree because, you know, a, a as you know, you, I'm sure you talked about at the launch. Right. It's anyone, anyone can ask a great question, including an A I bot, right.
Um, and they can structure it well and they can make it open and, you know, do all those things that we were taught in coach development were important about questions. We can program an A I bot to do all of that. Um But yeah, it's the humanness, right? That's what's unique. Definitely, definitely. Yeah. Can I just tell you? I think that some of our listeners have probably not done the thing they were meant to do next because they've carried on listening to this.
What I love what I love most about the way you talk. Melissa is that you have Melissa, everything that you've learned, right? I love that. I've Melissa, it, I love it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But it, but I think that you're right, Claire and it's actually really good for me to hear because one of the things that I had one of the messages that I had when I started to deliver, dare to lead to leaders and, and to coaches was I had this message around going in my head around.
I didn't want to be a fake Brune. Um I didn't want to be, you know, the U K's answer to Brune. Um but I also love the work and love her and and can you know, talk for ages about how awesome she is. Um And, and of course, I got all the messages of, well, how on earth do you think you little old Melissa Haig? How on earth do you think you're gonna measure up to Brene Brown? I mean, I had all of that. And so for me, the work for me has always been about how do I integrate this?
How do I make this about, you know, in my voice? Um And I, and I genuinely believe the reason that it's, I've Melissa, it, as you said is because it is integrated. It, it is just part of me. I, you know, I haven't just read the book and I'm gonna regurgitate that. It's, it's just become part of who I am really. Um So that's uh uh for me, very important. Um So it's lovely to hear that. Um For sure. But yeah, it required work. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. But yeah, it's integrated now, right?
So, are you OK to share how you do the work that it requires? So, in a kind of general way, in a kind of general way. Yeah, absolutely. So, um OK, so, yeah, absolutely. So actually something I should say, just kind of building a bridge between this question and the last one is that, um and this is a common phrase which I'm sure many people listening will have heard of is that, you know, to do this work with others. We must first do the work ourselves. Um is a core belief of mine.
And so therefore, that's what I've done with this work. I, I am doing the work myself and I choose that phraseology very carefully. I am doing the work myself. I am not the expert, but I am leaning in and doing the work myself. Um And so one of the, one of the uh I guess the best examples I can give of how I integrate the work is um within the dare to lead um curriculum, we talk about the metaphor of the arena. Um And the arena is all about those courageous moments, right?
Where we step into this arena, however, you're imagining it. And I'm, I'm a, I'm a great fan of a metaphor. Um So they work for me. I know they're not for everybody, but they really work for me. So when I am preparing for what I know will be a courageous moment where I'm required to step into my brain. So as an example, when I'm preparing for my first coaching conversation with a brand new client, right? Which is absolutely a moment that is gonna require courage. Yeah, on my part.
So IW I visualize that arena actually stepping into that arena. Sometimes I do it in my garden if the weather's good and I to my arena and within the arena, we have a variety of seats, right? Critics, you know, um we have people hurling advice. We have all the things that show up, you know, shame, comparison, scarcity and then we've got our support sections, you know, self compassion and empathy and all these things. So I actually take the time to walk around my arena. What, what am I hearing?
What are the messages that are coming up for me? Whose voices do I hear? Um I think about um what am I noticing in my body? You know, to really cos one of the things about connecting as a human is you, we've got to get more connected to ourselves to our bodies. So what am I feeling in my body? I think about emotions. Can I name them? Can I recognize them?
Because again, we're not terribly emotionally literate, you know, we, we need to get more, much more granular about what we're feeling emotionally. So I think about that. Um and I think about what do I need to in this moment in order to be kind to myself, what would I be saying to someone that I love in this moment? You know, if this doesn't go well, what will empathy look like for me in this moment? You know, so that that preparation piece.
So I actually re think about that arena metaphor when I prepare for those moments. And I must tell you one of the things I'm, I always chuckle to myself and when I share this with people, cos they, they chuckle too So one of the seating sections in the arena is the box seats.
Um, and really the box seats are kind of, they're the people who are in power in this moment, you know, the people maybe, um, they probably built the arena but they, they, they have some kind of power, maybe you're trying to impress them, you want to be good in front of them. So, you know, in my box seats I have and in a coaching contest, you know, when I'm preparing for those coaching conversations, I have um all of the, I, I always call them the grandfathers of coaching.
Now, there are plenty of grandmothers, right? But for some reason in my box seats are all the grandfathers, which is curious to me, but also all of the things that they tell me in all of the books that they've written and in all of the webinars, I've been on with them and in all of my coach development training, all the things that they told me that coaching should be all the things I should do and all the things I shouldn't do.
Um They are shouting those things from the box seats and I've put them there, right? They didn't put themselves there. I've put them there. So yeah, that and that of course, feeds into my experts. Um my need to be the expert as well.
So yeah, how do I thinking about those messages and how much of those do I want to listen to and do I actually just need to turn the volume down right now on those people because I just want to show up as me in this moment, Melissa, the coach, as opposed to the one that everyone, t everyone tells me I should be right. So, yeah, so that's an example of how I use the work on almost a daily basis. And I love that you're kind of going into the arena naked and you've got no backpack.
So you, you haven't said anything about checking your resources, preparing this every single thing there is about. Am I match ready? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And this is again, another thing that I get challenged on or get questions on is, you know, when we talk about, as you say, the armor or the, or the weapons or the backpack or, you know, all the stuff that we put on to protect ourselves when we feel vulnerable.
Essentially what we're asking for in this work is, is saying, well, you know, take all of that off and just like you just did, everyone says to me, wow, hang on II I get this but I don't want to walk into the arena naked. Melissa. That thought I'm not doing that, which I totally get. Who wants to do that rhyme? So then it's kind of like, ok, so what am I, what am I going in with? So I am going in with my values I'm really clear on what my values are.
I'm really clear on what living into those values means for me in a coaching moment. Um You know, I'm going in with um my, what my, what my grounded confidence, which is my ability to ground myself in this moment, right? And to be confident that, you know, if I fall, if I fail, it won't be the end of the world. Um If I ask the wrong question, you know, the world won't end all of those kind of things, my grounded confidence.
So it's also about how do we develop ourselves so that we can go in and not feel naked but also not be armored up with all of that self protection, right? This is just the most wonderful way to begin a day. Thank you. So if people want to come and train with you, mm And they've got the courage to take the first step. Yes. Absolutely. Cos everything that you've said so far is quite exposing. If people would like to come and do some work with you, how do they do that?
So the best thing to do is to, well, the first thing I'd suggest to you is to connect with me on linkedin. If you're on linkedin, connect with me because I'm, I'm posting stuff around a lot about this stuff on, on linkedin. And therefore that gives you a slightly safer way of connecting to some of this thinking that may not feel quite so exposing, right? Um And then the, the second thing is, you know, get in contact, send me a email c you know, DM on linkedin whatever.
And let's start by having a conversation. Um And that may well lead to, you know, the dare to lead program for coaches. One of the things I will say about that program is that I run it specifically for coaches. So you are in a, you will be in a room of like minded people. Um, and you are, you will be stepping into your courage with your tribe, um, as opposed to, you know, anything else.
So, yeah, and let's have a conversation, I would say let's start there, um, and talk about what this might look like for you, whether that's the, the program itself or whether it's some 1 to 1 work, whatever that looks like. But yeah, let's talk first of all, you know, fabulous. Well, Melissa, thank you so much for coming to the Coaching Inn Melissa's website and her linkedin info is in the show notes. What's, what's your final thing you want to say to our listeners? Melissa?
Well, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna come back to that quote and my, which remains my favorite quote, right? You can choose courage or you can choose comfort, but you cannot have both. Um, and the joy and the rewards of choosing courage are transformational. And yeah, if you want some of that come get it right. Um Definitely. So, I'm Claire Patrick and I've been in conversation with Melissa Haigh Melissa. Thank you for coming to the Coaching Inn use what you've heard. Well, lovely listeners.
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