You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching's virtual pub where we enjoy conversations with people who engage in the world of coaching. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Coaching In. And I'm today in conversation with Sandra Wiles, because I want to talk to you, Sandra, about the coaches gathering, but also it feels like we've met and we never have. So welcome. Thanks. And it's weird, isn't it, how actually in this world now we meet people, but we never actually meet them.
We rarely meet them in the real world. So really looking forward to being here today. It feels like... I'm just coming back from Christmas. So this is the first Zoom call that I've had since Christmas. Yeah, and it's like a real lovely start to my year. Well, you're very welcome indeed. So tell us a bit about you and your coaching journey, Sandra. gosh, where do I start? So I set up my business, I was coaching in, gosh, June 2016, so nearly seven years ago, which was...
But before that, I spent all of my life in the public sector, in local government. So yeah, when I had a proper job, my last proper job was the chief exec at one of the councils in Leicestershire. And I did it for about 12 years and absolutely loved it and had amazing team around me. And it was a role where I'd actually moved into an organisation where they were really happy to be average and really happy, just, you know, lovely, lovely people doing OK stuff.
But it was average and they didn't want anybody to know about them. So over the 12 years, I had the joy of, I suppose, shaping culture and becoming part of an organisation with ambition. And racing away. Like, yeah, my leadership style was about trusting people, getting on with it, building people, growing people. I used to describe myself as a gardener. Yeah, I'd be like, what do you do? I'm a chief of staff, but I'm a gardener. Because actually it's about...
Yeah, thinking about what you plan, thinking about what you dig up, thinking about what equipment you might need to buy. And increasingly, yeah, I've spent more time coaching, but not, I hadn't really had any formal coaching type training. I've done, I did NLP practitioner and half of an NLP masters, and then we opened a glass studio. So that got in the way. And I've done like little bits of coaching, short, short bits.
But actually what I think was increasingly finding that my time was spent in that space around mentoring, coaching, helping people. That's where I get my real joy in life. And I came to a bit of a crossroads and we had to take some big financial decisions. And I just thought, actually, I'm 56. I can actually go and... spend my time trying to coach more if I so I chose to leave the organization in 2016, which was real wrench because I loved it.
But I knew that behind me, there was the next chief exec, the next director, you know, the team behind didn't need Sandra Wiles in that organization anymore. So I was a bit big headed, but and I was probably getting a little bit dysfunctional because there was no real big challenges. So I set my business up and I'd come across. Kim Morgan from Barefoot, gosh, a couple of years before, because I'd had this strange story.
I'd had an amazing woman called Lisa Collinson come in to help the business I was in, the organization, get our heads around people strategy, because we had a nice financial plan and we had a nice corporate plan, but we didn't really think about people. And Lisa, one night we were sitting down with good position, she said, for goodness sake, stop being a chief executive, just go and do coaching all the time. You're half an hour from Barefoot, go and do your PhD with Kim Morgan, she's amazing.
And two years later, I did it. Yeah. So I trained with Barefoot in 2016 on their PG certs and set up a business, which I've never run a business. It's just like, what do you do? So I spent probably six months writing my own website. Yeah. Hiding away from getting out there and then speaking to people. But my early coaching activity was really around people that knew me through my leadership roles. So business has developed beautifully, I suppose, in some ways.
But yeah, and I probably, I sit more in that coach mentoring space possibly than, you know, pure coaching. I try to push myself, but a lot of people that want to work with me, they have leadership roles that, yeah, they come to me because they're getting ready for the next job or the inner job. And I need a space to think and a space to explore. So nearly seven years in, I work for myself as independent, but one of my key things for me that gives me energy is working with other people.
So I collaborate with lots of different other coaches. I sometimes describe my business as having three little legs as a store. So there's the coaching work that I do, which is individual or team coaching. And I do some group coaching, but yeah, so I like to play in the team coaching space. the individual space. Then there's the, I suppose the second arm is around training and facilitating things in a coaching way because you can't turn it off.
And then the third arm, I need a proper name for it, but I suppose I see that as my community arm. That's where the coaches gather and fits in that I've set up with Annie for about two years ago. That's where the work I do, I produce a monthly coaching tools newsletter. with resources for coaches and I'll perhaps say a little bit more about why I did that. And then I suppose it's my my prep owner work.
So I work with two or three charities a year or two organisations as they're if we need something, if we need some thinking space, we've got somebody that perhaps, yeah, they just contact me and and then they're organisations that are dear to my heart, if that makes sense. Yes. It feels really indulgent business that isn't like work. And you're a bit of a digital nomad, are you not? gosh, yeah, we're off to Gran Canaria. I have an arthritic condition.
So in this type of this time of year is rubbish for me. My mobility is not great. So now that I'm comfortable working on Zoom, we tried to get away. So we're off to Gran Canaria on Saturday. in an Airbnb with good Wi -Fi. And my son lives in Berlin, so we try to get to Berlin as often as we can and just work. Yeah, we can work wherever we have Wi -Fi now. But it's quite strange, isn't it? Because there is that thing about the in the personal contact.
Yeah, when I, if we go back to 2020, I don't think I'd ever been on Zoom. It was scared of technology. I'm still scared of technology. And so, but yeah, and then I think like, how could coaching work on the Zoom? I think there's something, we missed the movement bit perhaps and the, yeah, being able to, you know, just, I don't know, let's go for a walk together or stuff like that. But yeah, the, but there is some of the energy kind of flow through, through, through the airwaves. I mean, yeah.
You must have been next to me in my dream in the night. What was your dream then, Claire? So my dream in the night was actually, you can do all of the flow in online. And I'm just writing another book and I got this great sentence, which I won't show now because it'll probably change. But it was it was about that very thing. And I and I woke up this morning and texted myself straight away. this is a really good sentence. I think this should be in the book. It's weird, though, isn't it?
Because, you know, and in some ways, I think. Most of my teamwork is done face to face in the room. Yeah, and I think that's quite what I have done some virtually. But I think the one to one space, I probably keep out of the content a bit more. I was chief exec, I like solving problems. I like that stuff. So actually, I've got surrounded by less is more weight. Yeah. I think that, you know, working virtually, it allows me just to keep myself out of the content a bit. interesting.
And I have things that settle me before I go in sessions. But yeah, but the energy there and you can move around, you can do most things. I do, I don't do it often, but I offer a half day just step back and reflect on where you are and where's your career going and go back to basics and stuff like that. And I did it virtually the first time, probably about six, 12 months ago. I think, how's this going to work?
Because normally we're sitting on garden benches or people go for walks and it works perfectly. But it's about, I suppose for me, it was sitting with the client through that and being by the side. But I didn't have to be by the side because I can be walking down the side of the kitchen with my own post -its or whatever. Yeah, exactly. We had a, just for Christmas, we had a day, two of us, when we did a we nuked a terrible piece of admin.
And we had to Google me open for the whole time, but it was like we were working at desk side by side. And so there'd be silence and then one of us would say something and then, and I think you just have to be creative, don't you? But tell us about the coaches gathering because you dripped in there a tiny little phrase that said, I like to work with other people.
And lots of coaches don't, I think, find that the I'm not working with lots of people bit often the most difficult thing apart from the marketing of being an independent coach. So I often get questions asked to me on LinkedIn, where do coaches gather? And I go, the coaches gathering and other places. So tell us about the coaches gathering, Sandra.
I will and if I can, I'll also say a little bit about the coaches tools newsletter because as I said, they're two arms of my personal needs to get energy from people. So it started off probably from there's something missing for me and for me to be my best self, I've got to recognise that I'm not getting a vitamin here and the vitamin is for people. So coaches down there, Annie Lee, who's a coach currently based down in Limerie, just and I train together.
at Beville in 2016. And we were having those conversations probably about two years. Where is it? Because I think for us to thrive in our work as independent coaches, we've got to be good at coaching, whatever that means, but we've also got to be good at running businesses. And we can get sucked into, let's do lots of coaching and I'm not going to do the marketing, I'm not going to think about this, I'm not going to think about where I want to work, I'm not going to think about systems.
So Annika and I kept saying, what can we do to help other coaches that are going through the journey we've gone through actually have some space to work on their business as opposed to building their coaching skills and going on the self training and whatever it is. And we eventually said, right, okay, we're going to do something. And we just about to sign the contract for a space, a local hotel, cheapy local hotel to have a day.
for people to come together to work on their business in a structured way. And then just before two weeks before we saw the Covid emerged, didn't we? And so we thought, hang on a minute, we can do this virtually. Let's just do this. So we put together a day's programme and we didn't have a name at the time. So we said, what do we call it? What do we call it?
And we wanted to do something that... I think there's something about naming things so they become important, important like part of you if that makes sense. So we came up, I don't know how we came up with Kirch's Gathering, and so we launched, we advertised, we pop stuff on LinkedIn as we do, saying like yeah if you're an independent coach and you want some space to come together with other like -minded people, we're running this event on 21st of July it was. And it was a day and it's cheap.
We charged 95 quid. This bit isn't about making money for you. And it's all about within two days. And so we put another one on the 24th of July. And it basically the introduction day is a day to come together when we put together a format for the day where the thinking space for people just to get into that space about what it is about their business and to do some real structured. planning and thinking.
But it's not necessarily about like, this is about marketing, this is about you, what is it that drives you? Yeah, where are you best? What are the people that you're drawn to? And so maximum of 12 on those days. And so people work together and individually and go away with an action plan or something that actually will take. And I think it was that.
100, just under 100 people have been into, through Introduction Days, and there's quite a sizeable number of those individuals are still very active in the gathering. So Introduction Days gets you in there. And we then curate, I suppose is the best word. Yeah, we curate a space for people to come together. So we have them in a Mighty Networks platform where we do.
weekly accountability of people if it's helpful for people but people share stuff if they've got an opportunity to do some work or they've got something that they're worried about. Who's got the latest question from one of the coaches was like my world's getting really busy what's the best way to actually get diary management organised with such a solution. So it's a nice platform we do usually about four CPD sessions a year cheap and cheerful yeah 40 quid a session.
where the money goes to the person that's providing the session and we just make that happen and we use our contacts and sometimes that isn't necessary about business development it's about coaching stuff so Karen and Quaife is coming to do great!
on somatics and there's somebody coming to do something about NLP, Kelly Fraser is doing something on NLP and selling using them so we try to use people that we know come and just and we have social drop -ins and we've got a retreat next May so we're actually going to meet in real work for 20 people as we obviously we've got to keep it small and retreat is probably the wrong word because it's again a cheerful hotel near to where I live so Annie and I can stay in my house and keep the costs down
and it's joyful and people some people are very active some people just come to the Intervention Day and they go away with some real thinking. everybody goes away saying this has been a really useful use of my day. But it's putting connections in across the wider network. And it is absolutely, from my perspective, it is lovely to see the, some of the earlier people from the very first, their businesses are growing and thriving and they're finding their space. They're not.
Because I think as coaches, it's easy to look at others and use LinkedIn and it, yeah, is it really real? Some of that stuff. And that comparison latest, you know, do I have to be like that? Yeah. Do I have to be? So it's a space for people to ask questions and come together and get energy really, because sometimes it's a bit lonely. Sounds amazing. Sounds absolutely amazing. I'm organizing a walk on the first Saturday in February in the Malvern Hills. the coaches.
Yeah, only because, only because somebody said they wanted to go for a walk. And I haven't, I didn't have time on a weekday. And I thought, it's gonna have to be a Saturday. So I like walking. So then I thought, well, we might as well see how many people would like to come. And it's, I don't know, there's about 30 people so far expressed interest. I'm sure they won't all turn up, but it's, yeah. So isn't it because you get different conversations and you get different.
Obviously the world is like diamonds, there's different facets. And yeah, being able to recognise that some of our facets might be shiny, but there may be bits that aren't yet. Yeah, what do you call it when they submit as diamonds? I don't know. I'm not very good with that. And actually, yeah, just being with other people, it can open up possibilities, but also can make you think, well, I've got a lot to offer and I'm OK. Yeah, I'm good enough. This is enough.
Yeah. And human to human connection matters and coaches are often people people. Yeah. And then get stuck in a cupboard. Yeah. And that's why I think I knew when I left my proper grown up job that that would be an issue for me. So, yeah. So I think my own movement into running my own business, I worked with that. I did my training at Barefoot in the three months before I actually left work, which was brilliant. because you get lots of coaching, but I worked with Pete Mosley.
I don't know if you know Pete Mosley. I booked you a fabulous coach. Absolutely. He coached me do that through that transition. And it was about identifying what I needed to be able to do this and stuff. And one of that was around people. So the coaches gathering is lovely. And it feels like a real honor to have met and to work with some really amazing coaches. Wow. And Does it have a website or is it just a very nomadic thing? It's nomadic. And Annie and I have had that conversation.
We are really clear it is never going to be a membership thing that will never be charged for being part of it. You have to pay to come on the introduction day and if we have CPD or the retreat, obviously people have to. But we recognise that there are a lot of independent coaches, there's not a lot of money, there's not a lot of time. And we're both, I suppose, a bit cynical about some of the big membership things. Join us and you'll get a million clients within the next two.
It's not like that is it? It's, you know, we build our businesses organically and yes, and we have to make some money because we have, you know, some kids to feed and mortgages to pay and stuff like that. Yeah, so no website. We've got another Introduction Day in April. And we tend to use LinkedIn and our own networks too. So if it's okay with you, I'll send you the information around the next. brilliant. Thank you. One of the things we do to that this is going to sound a bit.
It's a very supportive, I suppose, the values. So we don't have a set of values in coaches gathering, but there is stuff in there about energy sharing, not being competitive. And I think I often. What if people turn up and most coaches aren't in that space? But yeah, it's about, we draw, I think, people to us. And Annie and I are quite similar in terms of generosity sounds a bit naff, doesn't it really?
But it's not about, yeah, I've always had years and years ago, I worked for a boss who never told me anything. His power was my thing. And I think that's really influenced my own leadership, influenced me very much. And actually this is about, gathering and sharing. So funny. I'm sure you must have been in my dream last night. Because the other thing that I was thinking about was this walk. I don't want there to be any ground rules, but I don't also don't want there to be any elevator speeches.
I just want it to be a bunch of people who go for a walk who happen to be coaches. Yeah, but working out how much. context you need to give versus how free you can leave something is a really interesting question, isn't it? Yeah. And so we do have this, what if somebody turns up that actually is like, you know, into that competitive space? And they haven't. And because I have this, I think our energy attracts similar energies, doesn't it?
And yeah, and that competitive space is perfect for some people. Yeah. Where they, you know, it's where they thrive. I, I, I don't see myself as competitive, but I think I am competitive, but I'm competitive for the whole as opposed to competitive for Sandra, if that makes sense. And so it's getting that balance. But the walk because the Malverns are beautiful, aren't they? They are. They are. And we're going to do a bit where you can go along the ridge, but you don't have to.
Yeah. Which hopefully means that it will be accessible. I mean, it's two hours, but. If people can walk for two hours, it will be accessible, even if they're not great at hills, although it's not flat, I have to say. My son -in -law lives in a small village or a small settlement about two miles outside of Melbourne. Beautiful bit of the world. Yeah, really, really. I'm based in Leicestershire and we love where we are, but I said if I ever did move, it probably would be just that type of area.
I don't know, there's something about the... hill. I don't walk a lot because my mobility is not brilliant. But there is something about, I don't know, the atmosphere, the energy in that space. You have to listen to Elgar, don't you? Listen to great loud music. There's something about the light. We were in the Lake District for New Year and there's something about the light there.
There's about the light against the hills or in the lakes it's against the mountains but it's a really interesting place to be and it appears. There are a lot of coaches here, which I didn't know, because I've only lived here for about 18 months, two years. well, next time I've ever needed you. Yeah, let's go for a coffee. Coffee somewhere and stuff. Can I say a little bit about Coaching Tools Newsletter?
Because I think that's aligned really with the... I don't know, people keep saying, why aren't you charging? But there is something about... I'm really clear in my head that there's this bit in my business that makes money and there's this bit in the business that... is about feeding that collaboration and supportive space. So going back about, gosh, it's been about three years now. I love reading books. I think a lot of coaches, we have a lot of books, don't we?
And we have piles of books, some are read, some aren't read. But I don't just want them to read or go on a course. I want to just try and take that into my, into me. Okay. And I do think that I... probably should be out there a bit more because I knew that I wanted to have wider contact with the coaches.
So I started writing this thing called the coaching tools newsletter and it was really simple and it's on Mailchimp and it's still quite simple as a way of just stepping back and just thinking about, okay, so let me just think about values here or let me just think about, I don't know, polarities or, you know, all strengths or what. And so it's a bit of indulgence for me to write something to download perhaps. I'm thinking. And then I thought, OK, I'm going to learn how to use membership.
So I set this up and set up a mailing list and all this stuff that I'm sure I could do better if somebody technically competent came and looked at me and helped me. And it's great. And so now this probably goes out about, so I write something once a month. I never know what I'm going to write. Something just pops into your head. And so I think the last one.
I did was around presence because there's something for me at the minute going on about really digging into what is it that what is presence and the essence of me as a coach and how does that fit and serve the people that I'm working with. So it goes out to about 400 people now once a month. And I think there's usually about 60 % opening, which I think is interesting. And it's a bit of like. downloading stuff, but allowing me to dig into, OK, so let me just get behind that a bit.
And on the back of it, we run now as another coach that I didn't meet in real life for a long time, Diana West, who's based in Langollen. And we run just a dropping group coaching thing once a month, usually on the back of the newsletters where... It's mainly coaches, usually about 16, 18 coaches come and space for people to come and breathe, but also to experiment and have a play with some different tools.
And again, it's one of those things that it's feeding something that I need in terms of just digging into the learning and don't just want to go on a course, just to go on a course, if that makes sense. But it's also that how do we share across our community or tribe? of coaches, the things and how do we have conversations. And again, on the back of that, there's been collaborations happening.
There's a couple of coaches that met in the coaches tools, and you said to drop in things that are now setting up a new arm of their business together. So there's something. But one of the things that I'm struggling with, I'm really trying to dig into at the moment is, and you know, Your book, I think, is brilliant in the way that it actually, we come out of coach training and we have, I used to do coaching in the real world in coffee shops or in offices and I'd take a bag of stuff.
Yeah. I'd walk it through. I'd have a little plan. If I take a bag of stuff and I'd have lots of tools and coaching cards and all that other stuff. And it was my comfort blanket. Yeah. And there's something for me about, I want that consistent ongoing learning and challenging myself. But. How do we get to a space where we just trust it will pop up when it's needed?
As appends to, gosh, I'm going to be working with such and such and this is their overall focus and that means I need to have this tool and an NLP bit and send them some Lego before that and all that. And I think there's something I'm doing some really, I don't know, it's bubbling inside. One of my goals for this year is to get the book written. Whether the book is ever marketed.
doesn't matter, but there's something about what is it, how do you live it on our journey as coaches or as thinking partners? How is it that we can get into that settling into that trusting our essence and the presence that then flows from that whilst still having the resources that will just pop out at the moment? And how does that then... help us as professionals develop so that we can be successful, but we're successful because we're using ourselves as an instrument. I hate that.
I feel I'm blathering. That sounds really interesting because, you know, a question that I've held for years and I'm beginning to get a few insights into is can somebody coach like that without going through the complexity first? And I think they can actually, but it takes an enormous amount of courage because it's very naked. Yeah. And we're in that world where we compare ourselves with other people. Yeah. There's competency standards and all that other bit, but yeah, it's a journey.
And I think, yeah, there's a journey. It's like, I don't know, I can't imagine ever not doing this. And that's a trouble. I'm 65 this year and it's like. How long am I going to be doing this? And, and, and, and, but, but there is that, that journey, that, that settling for me, it's a word that popped up big time last year in both my coaching supervision and my own personal coaching, my own coach.
and that's settling into yourself in a way that then allows you to serve the people that you're serving. And I, for my own work, I'm getting a sense of that in my one -to -one work, but not yet so confident in that space with the teamwork. interesting. I think, you know, team coaching is just, I work mainly with another coach called Emily Jones, we partner in team coaching. And I think for me, it's about, I suppose, recognizing which hat you're wearing at any one time.
Yeah. So in the one -to -one space, I'm really clear that I've actually, you know, which hat, where. what then working with the client, the person I'm working with, I hate the term client, to really contract around that and help them if they really need me to have a mentoring helm, but actually it's not me deciding to put it on. But with the team coaching space, I think we have to be even more conscious and more able to put on other hats when it's in service of the team.
It's a journey, I think we all have journeys, don't we? And take them off again. Yeah. And that's the art. And take them off. And actually, I think the power of movement and it's probably more obvious with the team stuff, because it's mainly done face to face, is actually physically withdrawing and physically moving. And, you know, and the impact that has on the team's thinking. You don't have the coaches there because the coaches aren't part of the team and they shouldn't be in the power.
Yeah. So, yeah. So. I never want to stop having these questions in my head. they're good questions to have, aren't they? Well, what an amazing conversation we've had, Sandra. Thank you so much for coming. How do people get in touch with you? OK, probably the easiest way is to send me a message on LinkedIn or drop me a quick email. So my email is sandrawilescoaching at outlook .com. I do have a website, but it was written by Sandra. regularly updated, but not often.
So the website is www .sandrawilescoaching .com. And I don't have Facebook, I do have a Facebook page, but I don't tend to use it. So I'm probably LinkedIn or an email is probably okay. Fantastic. Brilliant. And enjoy your walk. Well, thank you. And thank you for coming to coaching in Sandra Wiles. Have a great day. Okay. Bye bye, everyone. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, we'd love you to share the podcast with a friend or leave a comment on social media.
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