This is The Coaching In, a podcast from 3D Coaching. Hello, I'm Sue Blanch from 3D Coaching and today I'm having a conversation with my great friend and colleague, Peranelle. So we'll be having a conversation about all sorts of things, but Peranelle, perhaps you could introduce yourself first. Thank you, Sue. What a treat to have this time together. I bumped into 3D Coaching back in 2002. at which stage I was working for a company who were just about to make my job redundant.
And I needed help in that transition. Over the last 18 years, I have worked with small and medium enterprises, SMEs and micro businesses to help them see the direction they're going in. And it's through my work with 3D that I've worked out that actually, I was doing something called coaching, but I didn't realize that for some time. Working with SMEs is interesting because there's a power bias and a power balance which needs to be kept in great harmony.
In 2008, unfortunately I wasn't very well and I spent nearly two years lying down getting great friends with morphine because I had damaged my back. And during that time I asked myself those, one of those questions, if this is how life is going to be for the rest of my life, what am I going to do? And the answer was I was going to paint. There was no second thoughts. There was no hesitation. It was, I'm going to paint. Fortunately I paint standing up. as sitting was not an option.
And I have painted for most of my life. I can remember entering a children's exhibition back in when I was six or seven, and I was so excited when I got a prize. It was a Brooke Bond T exhibition. It slightly ages me, but never mind. And I can remember at school entering another competition and winning the most beautiful book. So it's always been there, but it was always on the back.
foot but in 2008 I made the decision to bring it onto a front foot and so I now spend half of my time having conversations with people rather like this and half my time having conversations with people but with a paintbrush in my hand and they have one too. Wow thank you thank you what a great explanation of that journey goodness okay so we've got some time today to explore a bit of that. So what can we be thinking about? What sort of subjects could we be exploring Perenelle together?
I think Sue, what I would like to explore if possible would be how does... the two different... strands of my life overlap and interweave. So the strand of my life, which is very accustomed to working with individuals on moving forward, and the strand of my life which is providing thinking space without the words, i .e. in my cabin studio. Okay. Excellent and we've got about 20 minutes and in terms of what I'm going to do is I'm just going to ask you a few questions as we go through.
Is that okay with you? That's fantastic, yeah and if I don't like them I expect I'll go off a tangent. Okay and I'll do my best to keep hold of that. Yeah that sounds good to me. Okay so by the end of this time we'll just know a bit more about how you're doing some your thinking and how these things are connected and I think that's going to be useful for all of us. So thank you. Sounds OK? Good. Excellent.
OK. So I guess the first question that I might ask you is what do you take from what we might call coaching using that word. That's the word that we're familiar with. What do you take from that and into your studio environment. So I wonder if that's a sort of starting place for us. One of the things I've learned in my being trained by 3D is how valuable it is to have a container in which to do thinking.
Some people call that a contract, some people call it the lozenge, some people call it the thinking space. And in many ways, it's just the same when I provide painting time in my studio for others is, I'm providing a space and a place and because it's painting materials for people to do some thinking which... is dedicated thinking in a dedicated time in the dedicated space. Okay. So the structure of when we think about coaching, we think about the beginning, middle and the end.
Where are we wanting to start? What do we want to explore? What are we wanting to do to move that forward? And the onus is on the thinker to do all the work. And for the person who's working with them to be there as an encouragement and a support and a nudge and a mover, honorer.
The same, absolutely the same in the studio, I'm providing an environment, I'm setting a, usually I'm setting a topic or a challenge or facilitating something, whether it's very specific like this is a plant, have a look at what you can see, by the way use your non -preferred hand because that will knock out the brain which can sometimes be a little negative or whether it's a phrase such as just this week I set via zoom to see the world in a grain of sand and
heaven in a wild flower hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour a quote from Blake which most of us know go away and paint one of those lines or impressions And then I allow space for the artist to find out what they're able to say, want to say, think they can say, which isn't really directed, but it's nudged. It might be, have you thought about taking away as well as adding? Have you thought about changing your brush size?
Have you thought about stepping back and reviewing? What about turning the whole piece upside down? What do you now see changing the perspective? So it's very much an intentional space where together we take time. I wait, sometimes patiently, sometimes not. I then notice with the artist and then ask questions, which... mirrors in many ways how a what I would call a more face -to -face painting conversation might happen. So there's a question that I'm wondering about, which is.
The experience that someone has when they come into your studio and work with you... How you've described it feels so much more than, let's say, learning to paint. It feels like there's lots more that's going on. yes. When I first started understanding the power of expression in a non -verbal form, I came across the quote by Da Vinci. Painting is poetry. that is seen rather than felt and poetry is painting that is felt rather than seen. And as I love words, I love paint.
That really resonated with me. You're absolutely right. I'm not as interested in the ability for somebody to hold a pencil and make an absolute replication of some replication, a copy of what is in front of them. I'm much more interested that they have courage to have a go, to open themselves up to the possibility of an amazement. and also error, which in coaching we would call data, which we can learn from.
many moons ago when I was quite new to this exploring art in a way which was impactful I can remember a lady came in a group session there were about 12 of us in some random village hall and sheets and sheets of lining paper and a lot of paint and I knew this lady slightly not terribly well and I knew that something had happened in her life which had caused her to be quite find life quite difficult.
and we had a, I think it's just a two hour session, a bit before and a bit after, and in that session she used as much red paint as I have ever seen anybody use and it ended up being everywhere, on the table, on her clothes, on her hands, and she you know she was quite a tidy person, if you said that about me it would come as no surprise, but this was a tidy person and I I would, all that I did through that entire time was saying, is the more? And she'd say, yes.
So out came another length of wallpaper, out came yet more red paint. And my thinking was, I have never seen so much red paint being used, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of the session in the group feedback, which had confidentiality wrapped around it, even before we started. So it was a safe place. I looked at this lady and I said, so what's been going on? Maybe not the wisest question, but she started bawling, literally bawling.
And she then said, her husband had committed suicide in the family home two years previously and she had not known how to express this. So this red paint, it still makes me feel, this red paint over, miles and miles of wallpaper was her beginning, her beginning to be able to say something which she could not have said in any other way. And that's when I knew that the power of a coaching painting conversation was magical. Wow, what an impact.
I wonder if I can ask you a question about you in that and your coaching expertise because there must have been some bravery involved there. Could you write that a bit larger? There was the need of bravery in so many different areas. There was the bravery that this lady was demonstrating, even though I had not the foggiest idea what was going on. She was doing serious business.
There was the bravery of the rest of the group who were allowing her to get on and not interfering, not commenting on the fact that she's got all the red, nor raising eyebrows, even if it might have been internally.
allowing her the space to do what she needed to do and there was bravery in myself again I have no idea what is going on nor have I any idea what to do in this situation but I know that I need to hold this space which means keeping my mouth shut keeping out of the way not interfering but being there and I think when we have coaching conversations and I've noticed this so much in the last two or three years, what we are doing is providing a place for people to say stuff, to think stuff, which
well pre -lockdown we were not giving ourselves time either to think or to be heard. So the bravery piece is. being brave to not know and yet assured that in the moment someone will know. Interestingly I have a tally which I wear on my wrist which says courage and that's sometimes courage for me to be bold and courage for me to hold on but it's also allowing other people to have courage to do what they need to do. and to know that together we'll be able to get somewhere.
Yeah. So the interweaving of what you've learnt from both strands, I can really see how that is connecting way across the different places that you do your work. That must have been an experience that has enabled you to grow as a coach. Back in 2000 and... I think I was approached by one of the larger accountancy practices in London to do a team build meeting. And at that stage, I was still very much holding on to the work I was doing with Claire.
I was speaking with her quite regularly, like once a month. And I was really scared about doing this because these were, you know, highly influential decision -making people who suddenly, randomly, were going to be set in a, what they would call a kindergarten situation of painting for the day. You know, these were the booted and suited, the financial elite. And I can still remember Claire sent me a text halfway through the day and I hid in a cupboard.
Whilst all around there were 36 men with their white, beautiful white shirts rolled up, their shirt sleeves rolled up and their ties tucked in. I had provided them aprons and gloves and things, but I still have a very vivid imagination, memory of this time.
But what was fascinating was this whole thing of providing a space and providing tools to think or reflect or to work as a group works whether you're working with high -worth gentlemen in white shirt sleeves in the middle of London or working with a group of ex -offenders who are learning how to say things which they haven't previously had the language to say. I don't think that answers your question at all. What was your question?
Well, my question was about the things that you have learnt from different places. Yeah, absolutely. And actually, I think that's a beautiful answer to the question. I can just see that room full of suits and your courage that was required there and that they learnt and the ex -offenders learnt too. You know, that's it, isn't it? So I wonder then, so we've talked a bit about how you have engaged enabling other people to do their thinking in whatever way using art, having conversations.
I wonder about how what you know about coaching enables your own art? That's a good question. What I know about coaching and how it influences my own art is something to do with that noticing, which we've talked about, about courage, having a structure as in a container. and recognising that wherever we are, wherever I am on my journey, be it coaching or painting, have somebody to work with, i .e. a coach, a mentor, a supervisor, a tutor, continues to refine and develop whatever I'm doing.
So I have an art tutor, I work with 3D which means I get supervision, thank you 3D. I have a faith, so I have a, what I would call a spiritual tutor. And because I write poetry, I also have a poetry tutor. I think what I... if I was to be succinct... In learning to coach, I learnt that there's always more to learn.
and I'm incredibly grateful that we have to do CPD, Continual Professional Development, so each year I choose to and need to do some extra learning and I've transferred that across to my own painting. I choose to do CPD for my painting as well. I have an art tutor who is just pushing the edges the whole time. Now I'm very fortunate, he needs a little bit of business experience as well so I can help him as much as he helps me. So yes, I think it's.
maybe how I do life is taking what I know from coaching and taking what I know from needing to... be refining and simplifying what I do in painting. That's a great answer. That's really struck me. So what I've got from that is how very valuable learning is, how very valuable it is to have someone else alongside the container idea. knowing where you're heading. Always useful. Always useful, isn't it? Sorry, I'm interrupting. A couple of years ago, I went off to a remote body for six weeks.
It was wonderful. There was no running water and no electricity and no mobile reception. And this was wonderful parallel. Yes, it had its downsides as well. But as a result of that, I had enough, what I would call reference material to produce what is known as a body of work. It's always a very strange expression. And out of that time, I have been able to generate a little book and an exhibition.
But I wouldn't have done that without knowing the container, a focus of, so where are you going to start? What are we going to think through? What am I going to, what am I wanting to achieve? What's my outcome? What's my goal? And how will I know when it's done? Well, with an exhibition, it's quite obvious when it's done because it's got to be being hung. So you have to stop painting at some stage.
And actually that stopping painting is very much like the analogy we use about bringing an aeroplane down to land. You can't just stop the moment the exhibition's hung. You actually have to do reverse engineering. You have to work backwards to work out. Well, if the exhibition opens this date, I need the framing done, I need the paintings to have dried, I need to have stopped painting, I need to know how many paintings actually going to be hanging. So, yes.
Yeah. Well, that's also a wonderful thing to think about, isn't it? About in all sorts of things, as you say, in life, knowing when to stop. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's been fascinating, Peranelle. Thank you very much for spending time with me today to be able to talk this stuff through. Peranelle, if people wanted to get hold of you, is there a email, 3D email address they can contact you on? Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Peranelle at 3D Coaching. Lovely. Simple as that. Yeah. Okay. Great.
All right. Well, I'm going to say thank you very much for your time and thank you for the learning that you've shared with us. I think there's some great stuff to take away from that. I shall be very interested to hear it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. You've been listening to The Coaching Inn. Find out more about us at www .3dcoaching .com. slash be hyphen developed.