This is The Coaching Inn, a podcast from 3D Coaching. I'm Su Blanch and I'm here today talking to my lovely colleague Ruth Bennett. And we thought it might be interesting to have a bit of a conversation about what's going on right now for Ruth in these times that are difficult for all of us with regards to the coronavirus. So Ruth is going to be furloughed. How do you say that Ruth? Furloughed I think. Furloughed, thank you very much. Ruth, it will be furloughed in our business as of tomorrow.
So this is her last day for the moment for 3D coaching and it felt like a very significant day. And that's the stuff that Ruth is noticing and thinking and feeling that might be interesting and... encouraging and thoughtful for us all to learn from. So that's what we're doing here and now. So, hello Ruth. Hello Sue. So, bit of an experiment this, we're just going to give it a go and have a conversation around this stuff.
So I guess the question that I might ask you first Ruth is, how's it feeling on this day? Feels really weird. It feels a little bit unreal, if I'm honest. I don't feel like this time tomorrow I won't be working. Partly because there's lots and lots to do before then. I'm very conscious of it. I've got a lot of activities to close off or pass on or whatever and I'm kind of, yeah, feeling the pressure, internal pressure of that, I think.
I've got loads of other feelings that I think I've... I feel there's a real level of excitement, if I'm honest, of, well, having some space. Thank you, Mr. Chancellor. Can give me opportunities to do other things. So time with my kids, helping them learn because they are really struggling with that. And, you know, the whole juggling of everything has just come too much.
So. I'm excited about that and about what I might get done in the house and what I might learn for myself, for my own professional development and all these things. I've got a million books I want to read and there's lots of excitement around the opportunities. But there's definitely feelings of feeling really daunted by the prospect. feeling of being selfish. I feel quite selfish about it because I am able to have this opportunity and others aren't.
It's in such a fortunate position for whatever reason. So there's guilt there associated, I think. I feel quite guilty about that. I feel a bit embarrassed. Part of the embarrassment, I think, is about the fact that I obviously don't do that much of an essential job. I'm needed, you know, I'm not a key worker or whatever that there's a bit of embarrassment attached to that I think. There's something about I don't feel like pulling my weight because I won't be working.
There's something of relief I think that by this time tomorrow I will be able to focus on my children and that is really important, family first. And there's also a bit of a feeling of affection I think. A feeling of, say that again? Rejection. Rejection. Yep. Yep. I think there's some of the feelings that are buzzing around my body right now. Yeah, no wonder it feels weird actually. That's a lot of different stuff, isn't it?
It's definitely a lot of different stuff and what a mixture of stuff as well. So what do you think tomorrow will be like? I think tomorrow will feel really good. I think I'll get up. I might even do Joe Wicks with my son because I can. I will have space to do things. I might start cleaning the house. There's lots of things that I feel like I might start doing tomorrow. Although even as I'm saying that now, I've got this voice in my head that's saying, hang on, you can't do everything tomorrow.
And I know I have high expectations for myself and I will probably feel guilty about all the things I don't do tomorrow. And so I need to be careful and more mindful of that, I think. Yeah. And I think tomorrow will feel a real loss. I think it will feel like a loss of connection with people. And although as a 3D team, we're not talking all the time, we do have levels of connection with each other. And particularly those of us who work in the office talk quite a lot.
And I won't be having those kinds of conversations. Hopefully I will have different conversations, but that will take quite a lot of effort to create those spaces. And I know I'm going to need that. because of the type of person I am. I'm imagining that that might be something that a lot of people will be feeling as they make a shift from this.
As you know, your description of felt kind of really energetic and lots of actions and what's on my to do list to tomorrow, which as you were talking, it felt to me like it was really spacious. There was a possibility of space. And and. So you've talked about connections and being really mindful of that. I wonder what are your thoughts about how you're going to, you know, what are you going to do about that, Ruth? Connection? Yeah, absolutely.
You've really defined that as something that feels significant and I'm sure it is to loads of people. So I just wonder, what's in your mind about how you might kind of keep connections up or what are you going to do? So, it's interesting. So we've just, as you know Sue, just had a team meeting, a 3D team meeting on Zoom and we had a moment of thinking about this really.
And one of the suggestions was our WhatsApp group, we just have a little WhatsApp group, we don't use it very much for anything. But maybe just connecting a little bit more socially in this time with that. So that's something I would want to very much stay on. And even though I won't be getting all the work type emails, I think staying on that would be really important for me for the team. And one of our colleagues asked whether I would ask for help if I was struggling. And I said, probably not.
And I think that's a really interesting thing. I know that about myself. I won't ask for help. I won't. And if I know that about myself, I need to find ways of asking for help that are honest and clear enough. and at things that I can do without feeling bad about because every time I ask somebody for help, it feels like I'm being selfish and self -indulgent in it. And I don't like that feeling. And I feel like I should be able to cope.
But essentially, I'm an extrovert and being locked down in a house with two children without any adult company is driving me potty. And I love them dearly and they are absolutely brilliant and amazing and all the rest of it. But... I know that I have a real need for connecting with other adults and without that at the moment I've got to put other things in place. So work, work wise there's a, there's the need to. Ask for help. And then personally.
I've got to find better ways of asking for help there as well. Which I know I feel find really talented and maybe part of that is because I'm the baby of my nuclear family, my original family of origin and so I always felt like the one that was all needy and everything, you know, there's lots of things about that. And so I think I have a... I have a resistance to asking because I feel like I'm always the one that asks, I'm always the one that has the need.
So I shouldn't have to, I should be able to cope. But maybe it's not about... me being able to cope, maybe it's just acknowledging, yeah, who I am. And I think I am doing a lot more learning. In the last few weeks, I've done a lot more learning about who I am as a person and my personality. And I know that I need people around me and I need lots of connection. And I'm learning to feel less guilty about that. I still feel bad about it, but I'm learning that, I think.
And so what I need to do is I need to reach out to a number of people. and say whatever I need to say. I don't know quite how to say that, but I need to do so. I'm seeing on Facebook all these people having lovely wine parties with their friends on Zoom and things, and I've done none of that. And I'm like, where is mine? Maybe I've got to do something about it. That's the problem with me. Maybe I actually need to initiate something and invite somebody somewhere, but there we go. The life lesson.
So I'm really struck as you're talking and I can see you Ruth, about your kind of level of vulnerability and considering and the noticing that you're doing around how you're feeling and what you need to be aware of. It's looking like there's loads of learning even kind of right here and right now in this moment. Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like as when we come off this call, there are things that I want to do. There are people I want to contact, maybe not immediately, but I...
Yeah, there is definitely learning happening here in this moment. So that's interesting, isn't it, with such a strange social environment that we're in now. I'm just sort of very heartened to hear that even in some very difficult times there's still a place for learning and for you, as we're talking to you, to kind of being to explore what needs to be different and what can you feel and hear and so on.
I just had an amazing thought, well it may not be amazing to you or anybody else, but it feels amazing to me. So for about, for 17 years I worked in a charity and they had a sabbatical program and one person had a sabbatical and then nobody else did after that. And so I was always very, you know, frustrated that there wasn't an opportunity to have a sabbatical. I'm being given that gift right now. If I was taking a sabbatical from my work in any other context, what would I be doing with that?
And I know it's different. There's lots of restrictions and all the rest of it. But if I were planning a sabbatical from my normal work job, which I know hardly anybody gets these days, what would I want that to be about? And how would I see that? And I wonder whether there's something about reframing this time.
So rather than feeling... rejected or whatever it's like, well I'm being given a sabbatical and there's something there about who I am and what I'm all about and something about how I connect with others in different parts of the systems that I exist within. I think, yeah, interesting. sabbatical. So you said at the beginning that there's... something exciting as well as the kind of worry in it sounds very exciting. Yeah, yeah, there is.
There's so many things I want to do and I want to learn and I want to develop. I mean, I'm a lifelong learner really anyway, so I don't. There's always things that I will want to do, which is really exciting. And what I think what I need to be careful of is that I don't end up. feeling like I'm failing at all of them and then feeling guilty.
I think I can do the excitement, I can start things off and I am actually quite good at seeing things through as well when I can, with the exception of the London Marathon which is not going to be seen through this April but you know, hopefully my sights are set on October. So yeah, there is excitement about the opportunities. There is excitement about the opportunities, yeah. Great. Good, good. I can see that on your face. It's fabulous.
So I wonder, just switching this a little bit, is there anything that might be useful for an employer to know? What would you tell an employer from your perspective of where you are at the moment? What would be useful for them to be thinking about in relation to their employees that might be going this way? I think if I was talking to an employer, I would ask, I wouldn't ask, I would say. listen to your employee, hear them, ask them how they're feeling. A bit like you have to me.
I mean, that's brought to the surface some of the feelings that, yes, are there, but I hadn't articulated any of that before, not in that way. So I think if an employer takes an interest and asks the employee how they're feeling and really hears them and what they're saying about that, that's... That would be brilliant. I think that's the. And asking them what they want as well, what would help them.
So what would help them in leading up to stopping if there is a lead up, there may not be, it may be a break or there's something about keeping in contact, whether there's, you know, maybe there's something about creating a container for the, for the piece of time. what does this actually look like? Okay, we don't know how long it's going to be right now. We can say, well, let's in a month check in or just, you know, have some kind of. point at which we're connecting.
But I think it's about asking the employee that, what did they want first? And then maybe doing some negotiation and agreeing between themselves. As I'm saying that, I'm thinking, is it about a container? Because it's not as if you can go through all the elements of contracting for this. I don't know what I think about that, Sue. What do you think? I think it's a really interesting question when we see a container which has an end. By necessity, it's a container which has edges.
And there's something about this which... is edgeless. We don't know what the end bit is. Well maybe it has edges but it's just got an open end hasn't it? Yeah it's got an open end yeah yeah yeah. And I love your thing about the kind of time though, you talked about, you know, we'll check in in a month, but maybe there's a container that is created for this first month and then another one, you know. So maybe we can create some edges, some boundaries that make this feel a little bit more clear.
And I think one of the things about boundaries, as I've been reflecting over the last day or so, So I started this conversation in my head or out loud thinking, but you know, we're part of a team. I want to be still part of the team. I want to still be doing bits and pieces. What can I do? You know, I know I can't work, but can I have conversations with people or hear things or whatever? And so I've been reflecting on some of that.
And I think I've come to the conclusion that I need for me, and I don't know if this will be the same for everybody, I need to... to have a really clean break and say, okay, today I am working, tomorrow I will not be working. I think that's for my sanity and my cleanness and also for the organizations. Because if they're not sure which bits I might end up volunteering doing, you know, kind of not quite handing over, then they don't know what they need to do.
And I think, I think the right thing to do, if the work is not there, I cannot do the work. That's the right thing to do, isn't it? And I need to not get caught up in my own head in the kind of, trying to be kind thing that actually is probably not kind, because it's not clear. That's why isn't it? That's Benet Brown, isn't it? Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind. So I need to be clear about what I'm leaving and how I'm leaving it and draw the line.
However, even as I say that, I can feel myself shaking a little bit thinking, yeah, I've got to draw the line, that's it for a while. And that there's a grief in that. I think. Yeah, it's bound to be, isn't it? And how does that clarity then relate to the word that you used earlier which was sabbatical? Well, I think the clarity is about I will not be working. I am not working. I cannot work. There is no work for me to do. But so I won't be doing any any work, I think.
I think it's sabbatical for me is having time out of work and in doing whatever you do. And I know different people use the word in different ways, don't they? But I mean, in its broader sense, it's just having some space to be something different, to do something different. So I think that's probably the time then becomes it's for me, it's not for the organisation. It's in service of the organisation because it means the organisation doesn't have to fund me.
But it's, I'm not doing things that are about seeing the organization develop in that time. That hurts, too. Wow. Yeah. Okay. There's an ouch there. There is an ouch. Because I believe in the organisation and I am part of the team and I'm the only person that's going to be furloughed because we don't have very many of us who are on the payroll. So it's the only me that we are able to put in that state. So the rest of the team will carry on without me.
things were changing, things are moving so fast day by day, as we know at the minute. In next week, the organization will look different, let alone next month or in three months or whenever it is that I might be able to come back. And there's a massive vulnerability in that, in that what, well, one, what would I be walking back into? Because the organization will look very, very different. So what would my role be in that?
And there's a second, vulnerability of whether there will be a place for me. And my relationships tell me that they will, because that's what the people have said. And I believe and trust the people. I also know that at the end of the day, if we haven't got the money to keep going in as an organisation, because everybody is in whatever state we're in, there may not be. So actually this may be, this may be my goodbye. Wow. that's a big ouch, Sue. That's a big ouch. That's a big ouch.
Yeah. Yeah. So having articulated that. Where are you now? I'm supposedly okay. I think that is healthy for me to articulate. Gosh, I feel like more like you're coaching me than I'm having a conversation with you. But anyway, whatever it is, it's useful. It's useful for me, certainly. Having articulated that, it's useful to get it out there, I think. And I feel like everything's going to be okay. And I don't really know why. I think that's an intuition thing a little bit.
And I think it's also a trust thing in relationships. And it's also... there's more to life than money and jobs. And I took redundancy a number of years ago. And so I had to start from scratch then I could do it again. You know, it's all those kind of, I can do this, you know, I'm feeling strong enough today to say that. If you'd asked me last night, I would not have said the same thing. And some of my friends would tell you that it felt a very different way. However, right now it's okay.
Yeah. And that's interesting actually in itself, isn't it? Cause I am in such a different place than I was last night when I, everything was massive overwhelm and I was a sniveling rat. And yet I feel so different today. And that says something, doesn't it? About how fast things are changing. Yeah. Yeah. It says something doesn't it? Sorry, you carry on. Well, I was going to say maybe something about how, about our ability to adapt as well.
Yes. And, you know, what I feel today may not be the same as tomorrow. And there's hope in that because my panic moments may not last. Although there's also a warning in that, a kind of caution of my happy moments may not last. It's just a kind of... And maybe there's something in this whole crisis stuff that we are in at the moment. that makes, that kind of induces the... the high and low emotion and maybe we need a little bit more of a leveling. I think I need that.
I think I need to find an emotional leveling so that I'm not doing right up here or right down there because that's my tendency to go up and down and I need to maintain. And what I'm noticing and I'm sure it's the same for lots of people is that the truth is that it's up and down, isn't it? What's going on is up and down. How you respond to it is up and down.
But what I'm getting from you is a real sense of sort of the noticing of that and figuring out that something that feels a bit more level might be useful. That that might be a thing to sort of recognise. What's the level look like? And I think there's some... Yeah, in myself, there's something really helpful about noticing. That's what I'm doing, the up and down. Because then I can go, OK, that's all right then. I can breathe. Yes. Yeah. Yes, please continue breathing.
Yeah, sorry, I did actually hold my breath then that's really weird. Let's try not to hold my breath too much. Okay, so we've had a bit of a conversation about how this is feeling for you, this transition into something which is now a sabbatical and has some wonderful things to offer but also not minimizing that it's difficult and there's some painful stuff and there's going to be ups and there's going to be downs.
And that I'm sure that there are many people like you that are kind of heading into something which feels a bit unknown. But I hope that you know what you've described and a bit of a sense of the noticing of what's going on and Ruth I've noticed how very kind of vulnerable you've been in kind of articulating that stuff. And if that's painful, yes. And it does mean that you can have a proper look at it.
And I'm also, I just really, you know, the reflection that you had on what can an employer do, which is to ask, well, ask what the employee needs. What does that look like? How are they feeling? Could be really useful. So that at the end of all of this, whenever that might be, we can all be back. connected again and the new normal will be something different to what we've experienced before but we'll be able to to deal with it and carry on.
Yeah cool well thank you very much Ruth for spending this time on a day when you've got a whole list of I've got to do this I've got these actions and and so on so I really appreciate your time. Okay, thank you. Thanks Sue. You've been listening to The Coaching In. Find out more about us at www .3dcoaching .com slash v hyphen developed.