Ep. 153 - Damon Hack

do there. And uh and I reached out to Damon Hack, a golf channel, a friend of mine and and somebody that posted an unbelievable piece this week on golf channel dot com that I urge you to read. Will Well, we'll post that on on social media along with the link to this podcast if you haven't had that yet or you hadn't seen it. And Damon was kind enough to join me, and we just had a conversation about you know, what's going on and what we can do and and golf and and moving forward and moving upward.

I mean, I feel like not just forward, moving upward as a society. Um AS a golfer, as golf fans, just trying to improve as people, as listeners, as humans, as friends, as strangers, all the things we can try to do to be better. So I hope you enjoy it. I enjoyed talking to them. I always enjoy it obviously. You know, it's a pretty heavy conversation because it's a heavy time right now, and I think heavy conversations are needed.

And and just all I ask for you, listener, friend of mine, person that I respect because you downloaded this podcast, I'll ask for you is if there's things in your life that you're doing that you don't love. There's stuff you've said, or jokes you've made, comments, all of those things. Listen, those are in the past, and and there's nothing you

can do about them. All I ask in all errorges that you try to change those things that maybe you aren't happy about with yourself or maybe you know, disrespect or make people uncomfortable. And that's all we can do moving forward, is just trying to improve his people. You know, I always go back to the Einstein quote, you know,

I mean, what's the definition of insanity? It's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result if if that's who you are, if you're a person that that feels like they're on a track they don't like, all I say is just make changes. And if the changes mean you lose friends, or maybe your golf groups not the same, or you're gonna get yelled at by certain people on social media, for goodness sakes,

you know, God forbid. I just say, those uncomfortable moments will be worth it when you get to a point where you're happier with who you are and where you are in society and how you feel about yourself. And I've had to do that the last six seven eight

months personally about some things. And you know, you there are moments as a narcissist where being proud of yourself is hard to do and uh, and there's been some moments where I felt proud of the changes I've made about myself and this is a great time to do that. So that's all for me. I I want to get to Damon as soon as possible. Just the last thing, Damon was on Shack Jeff Shackford's podcast, The Shack Show, also a part of My Heart and my Heart Radio

and i Heart Network. Um so listen to that if you can, because they're they're conversation, they've worked together for a long time. I just felt like it was as a very lovely conversation. It was a powerful conversation. And uh, and I feel like if you if you're gonna listen to this and like this, I urge you to go listen to that podcast as well. And uh, and let's do it. Let's get to Damon and we welcome back into the clubhouse Damon Hack of Golf Channel Morning Drive.

You guys all know, Damon he penned a piece this week, a very impactful piece on golf channel dot com titled Can I Be Both Thankful and Horrified? And Damon, it was a piece that you know, universally I can only imagine, you know, universally massively accepted. And I know you've mentioned a few times, I've I've listened to a couple of things you've done over the last few days. Just how many people have reached out to you about the piece you wrote. Used to be a writer, man, this is

what you used to do all the time. Now you're on TV US TV folks, we don't write that much anymore. Um, How was it to to sit down and and why were you so inclined to put something up kind of about some personal stuff that you've gone through throughout your journey in this sport, in and around golf. Yeah. I don't write much anymore, Shane, And it's it's always great to visit with you when when we have some time.

And I'll tell you, I was kind of moping around the house, to be honest with you, I've been watching some of the coverage in the last week and a half about the murder of George Floyd and it's just it kind of hit me and I was like, Okay, I'm going on television while this is going on, and I'm smiling and enjoying my job in my life, but but there's just a pardon right now that is absolutely broken and hired of a storyline that's happening in our country.

And my wife said, well, why don't you write? And so the first thing I did was like, I didn't Instagram post that I wrote these words down. And I don't usually delve into anything, you know, beyond the ropes. It's it's you know, Tiger and Phil and the Shambo and Rory, and that's kind of been it for me, But I just I couldn't keep doing what I've been doing and be true to myself or the viewer for

that matter. So I attend this little Instagram post and next thing, you know, you know, my Folks and Golf channel. Some colleagues were like, why don't you write a longer piece? Can you do you mind expanding that for for dot com? I was like, I'm sure I'll do it. That's fine, and um it was really appreciative of the comments I got on Instagram page first of all, and then um comments.

I received phone calls from Folk seven talked to you for twenty years, nice notes from people who said, man, I never would have known you got pulled over a couple of times for doing nothing, that Christ in front of your house, for standing in front of it. Um, all true, all painful, and that that that pain, those memories were just stirred up. So I'm watching a a grown man, uh you know, be choked out of his life, um, on television. And you know, but for being on television.

You know, I go jogging in a predominantly white neighborhood. I've been in elevators with strangers and seeing the looks on faces and um, I got a bald head, and and stereotypes are are deep seated in our country, so I know what looks of discomfort looked like. Um, I tighten up. If I ever get pulled over for any reason, if even if there's a cop driving behind me, I

get I get nervous and tight. And this is having a cousin who's retired FBI and my wife's cousin is active with the n y p D. So it's just that just really a collision of emotions. I want that put tend to paper. I didn't expect the response that it's received, but I'm glad it's had the response that

it's received. Yeah, it's something you wrote in the piece, and it it's something that I've continued to think about over the last few days since I read it, and and it's it's something a different experience that I had about something that was very similar. You said you don't want to talk to your boys about the same thing that your dad talked to you about. My buddy of mine had made kind of a I guess, for lack

of a better term, kind of a woke playlist. He makes playlists all the time and sends him to friends and he made a playlist of just you know, some songs. Is as we all kind of sit around wondering, you know, what the hell we can do? You know, he just sent a thing out to some friends and it was some songs about you know, I mean, just you know, the you know, the common song from the movie. And there was a lot of those types of songs, and

there was some Tupac on it. And as I was listening to the music, I was I was hiking the other day listen to this playlist, and I was shocked at how similar a song from Tupac and what the early nineties sounds like all of us now in two thousand and twenty. And it goes back to your point. You're speaking to your sons about the same stuff you got talked to about when you were a child, and you're two years away from being fifty years old. I just feel like, you know, my level of frustration with

all this just you know, it has continued. I've been very frustrated with the golf world over the last little bit. Anyway. I just feel like nothing really changes and and it and it feels a little bit like avoid at times in and around golf and we'll dive into that in a little bit. But you know, when how do you

not get frustrated? How do you not sit there and go why why do I have to keep doing these things, keep saying the same stuff over and over and over again, if nothing will ever change, And how do you find hope in all of this that maybe see changes in the future. Well, I am frush traded. Um. I'm also mystified that I was sitting around the dinner table with my wife and kids, and my wife actually initiated. My

wife from Hong Kong. Um, so we are, you know, your typical twenty one century blended multicultural family, and my wife's trying to explain, you know, this is what your dad and his people have gone through. Um. You know, we're extremely blessed and and and thankful for the gifts we have, but there is president prejudice and racism in the world. And I literally I probably said just a

few words. My wife did most of the topic. I suddenly almost it was like an out of body experience of like, wait a second, this this is so familiar.

But here I am almost fifty, So I'm kind of you know, you start thinking about mortality and and and where your planet is in your country and your town, and I just was like, wow, I've lived probably more than half my life and I'm having this conversation with my kid that my dad ha would be and it's just, it's just And this was before I wrote the story, and I just was I was depressed. I was like, wow, here I am joyful, um happy that I'm doing the

job I love. I would not want to come off as being perceived as a whiner or a complainer, because I'm not, but that my soul, something inside of me says, you know what, You're not completely free, You're not completely able to be yourself because of this baggage from our country. And but what gives me hope because I'm an optimist by nature. But even beyond that, I've received calls from people at the U. S g A and text messages from the PG of America PG two. Like I said

that there are people that want to help. What the recipe is, Uh, that's that's gonna be hard, But I know it's gonna be heavy lifting, dirty fingernails, uncomfortable conversations, and really getting down into some tough topics to figure out how to address things that are systemic, that are embarrassing I think for our country, and that a lot of people don't want to talk about and they're like, hey,

I didn't I have nothing to do with this. But I think the time for being comfortably naive and ignorant is over. And I think that thankfully, it feels like a multicultural um issue and not a black issue. I think if you look at the protests and the conversations, and maybe it's because of COVID nineteen and most people are at home anyway, that people are having some really deep conversations, and I'm at least hopeful and happy that that's happening. Yeah, I mean, you are someone that's going

to get approached when something like this happens. I mean, you're you're a black man that is on one of the most recognizable golf shows out there. I mean, I mean a Morning Drive is on TVs and pro shops and all around golf fans, you know, living rooms every morning. You know, throughout the week when you see these things, you know, these horrific things happen, and you know that at some point you're gonna start getting requests by media

and by people like me. You know, Hey, do you mind coming on the podcast and talking and and and damon, it's such a limited group. I mean, you think about Tiger, right, I mean, Tiger is a guy that I mean I noticed there was a there was an article on golf channel dot com and on June one, and it was it was a question why Tiger hadn't spoke up yet. I think Tiger that day posted something about it. But we're always looking for answers from people that went through

experiences or have gone through these experiences. I think about Dr Fauci during coronavirus. You know, if you're an expert of the viruses at that time, you're probably phone is ringing off the hook, right, I mean you're the guy or the woman that's getting approached to maybe help somebody try to understand this. What's that burden like for you?

Knowing that when things like this happened, when race comes up, when a huge race issue blows up in our country and now and around the world, you know that you're going to be a sounding board. You're gonna be a voice that people are gonna want to listen to, that we're gonna want to hear from, and hopefully they're gonna get some answers from because that's that's that's a huge burden. Damon.

It's exhausting, Shane, That's what it is. Um And it's not the only time that this happens, whether it's being the only black kid in your school or in your you know, newspaper or whatever, you know, graduate school. Um, it's it's it's exhausting. And it's been at least nice to share the load with some other minorities in our game and knowing that they have dealt with this their

whole lives that are dealing with it now. So part of me is thankful that I can speak to it, that I at least have experience and a platform to speak and share. But it is exhausting, and I think that it's unfair to expect black people to figure out a problem that is an American problem. I do think that it's going to take a collective effort. I think it's gonna take deep pockets and people who are invested in this game, both from a financial standpoint and an

emotional standpoint, to say this is a problem. Uh, some of my fellow American citizens are in pain and anguish over the state of this country. And that you can love your country and be a patriot and have questions and problems with the way things are going. And just because you know, lebron is, you know, wealthy, and Tiger is tiger, and Barack Obama has been elected and these are all remarkable strides that our country has made, does not mean that there's there's room to grow and a

long way to go. And I just think without assigning assigning blame to to, you know, the current crop of people that I might say, hey, I didn't you know owned no slaves, um, never use the N word. I'm nice to everybody. Well, that's that's wonderful. But for this to be rectified, it's gonna take some people that are maybe not quite aware of the situations. Maybe it's gonna take doing some research on your own, reading books on

your own. Read The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein, pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Talking to Strangers Watch by Ava du Verney. I mean, there's a lot of information out there. I know people that just don't want to talk about race, and and I think it's, hey, you know, I don't see race everybody. I fee everybody the same. Well, I do want people to see race. It's not it's not it's not working out this way with us not seeing race. I think we have to see it, address it and

make things better. Yeah, and and and you know, Damon, it is you and I in the golf world. You know, we do live in a fairly conservative, you know, very white, very male sport. I mean, that's what golf is. I mean, I can only imagine what your life was like first starting out writing about this sport, you know, being in a press ton I mean, were you the only African American there? I mean, was there anybody else of color

doing the job you were doing? You know? I mean I'm I'm guessing probably not, or maybe one or two other people in the room. I mean, that's that's intimidating just to begin with, right it is, I mean, thankfully, you know, there are some pioneers like Pete McDaniel, Cliff Brown from Golf Digest in the New York Times respectively, Forrell Evans, who um was an editor at Sports Illustrated and occasionally would be on the scene at golf tournaments.

But you're talking about two or three, you know, we're talking height of the Tiger era. You know, they're hundreds and hundreds of hundreds to have three or four African Americans in a press room of five hundred or or seven hundred fifty at a US open you get to pick to um. So yeah, I remember having to turn my credential around a couple of times, make sure that the security guard knows, Hey, that's me. I'm legit. I'm where I'm supposed to be. UM. But you know what

I've I've I've you know, worked hard. I've written the stories and and and told the stories on TV now and I feel like I feel like I'm okay, like I've earned my keeping the game. It's fine. I don't have to prove that I know about this game and I've covered it and uh and have loved it and given it the respect and appreciation that it deserves. For me, it's about It's about the community from which not even that I necessarily came from, but my cousins, my parents,

people that I know it's not enough for. People said, well, Damon has made it, so why can any black person made it? You know. It's like it's like that's my parents with the Compton High School uh and moved me to the San Fernando Valley, which was not Compton, which was much more affluent. Both my parents, you know, dual degree holding, um educated, you know, tough disciplinarians who said, you know, you're gonna do things the right way. But I'm as an outlier in my own family and outlier.

I have cousins who or who's who's experienced is much more traditional in the African American sense of struggle in our city, UM kind of bumping up against pillars and different aspects of our society that are systemic and that are hard to address. So this isn't about like me looking for any specipathy, but it's about me sharing my personal truths in my my background and trying to find solutions. It feels like it's a big task. It feels like it's multi layered, multi textured, and and that it has

to be multicultural in the end. And I think it's it's it's important. You know, I mentioned the article about Tiger not speaking up. I mean, I do think we are now to a point where it's as you said earlier, it's important to be uncomfortable. It's something that I battled with personally Damon a lot over the last few years. I mean, I mentioned not loving golf like I once did, and I think it's because, you know, I mean, listen, social media is a horrible place to begin with. I'm

not gonna I'm not I'm not. I'm not gonna say everything in this world is the same as social For goodness sakes, I don't think anybody should ever do that. I've actually taken a step away from social lafter the last couple of months, and let me just tell you, way happier. Like I believe the correlation there, but you know, I do think that personally for me, and I want

to hear your thoughts here. You know, I I feel and I felt at times that there were things I wanted to say, there were things I wanted to support, you know, something like Black Lives Matter, for instance, and I felt really uncomfortable a putting something out there to the world about that and be understanding that there were going to be a lot of those really tough guys social media people that we're going to yell at me and curse at me. And again, I mean, what does

it matter to me? Right? I mean? What? Why? Why am I scared of this? But I am scared. I am scared of what's gonna come from that? And you know, one of my commitments over the last week is I can't be scared of supporting people I want to support, and I believe I should support ideas I want to support, and also the other thing I want to do, and and and again, I don't know if this is right or not. This is why I wanted to have you on.

I just wanted to ask you some questions. Is the people that yell, the people that cuss, the people that come after me and say horrible stuff because I posted a black Lives Matter hat, I want to talk to the people. I don't want to avoid them. I want to discuss it. You know. I want to explain that saying black lives matter doesn't mean other lives don't matter. It's a focus on on a race and a people that have been oppressed for hundreds of years, and it's

it's giving them, it's it's supporting their movement. That's the idea here. It's not saying I don't care about white people or I don't care about police officers. It's that right now, black lives you know, statistically do all the work and all the dive in into online. You want to do. Life isn't the same and that's screwed up and that sucks. And so it's on me, and it's on you know, some of these golfers you saw, you know, Justin Thomas, guys like that, they were posting, you know,

blackout Tuesday. They were joining in. I'm not sure that would have happened ten years ago, Damon and and and at least the conversation. It's not just on you, you know, it's not just let's get Damon Hack on the phone to talk about this for three minutes in the B block. It's on white people and white women and you know, Asian Americans. It's on everybody to support a group of people that are fed up with the way things are and be they want life to change, and hopefully this

is the moment that it does. Yeah, you know, I talked to Cheyenne Woods about this, and she says she hopes this isn't a moment, that it's a movement, and it does feel that way. And I've been trying to figure out, like why, And I'm happy that Justin Thomas, Ricky Fowler Brooks kept up participating in that blackout Tuesday. And I was saddened by some of the negative comments, and I think you can go down a rabbit hole

trying to go back and forth on social media. But my thought is that maybe these are these are young men of different generation, a younger generation than I am. They've interacted with the Steph Curry's and the Andrea Buddallas and Larry Fitzgerald's, other athletes who absolutely adore the game of golf. So I feel like it was a kinship there.

But it's going to take. It's going to take the Shane Bacon's and the Justin Thomass and the Brooks kept us and the Ricky's, And I think it's it's important because it's it's a it's a heavy stone for for you know, the African American community to feel like this is all up to us. Um. I think it would get more attention, more traction, more eyeballs if if there were allies that are uncomfortable but that want to learn and want to know and want to at least have

a conversation. For me, it's not even so much that Shane Bacon you come up with a solution and then j T you come over this and I'm just glad to have you listening and and and having your empathy and want to learn. I mean, these are these are hard questions, and these are questions for obviously sociologists and historians and others to have to really delve into. But

just having the ear of of people. And that's why you know, I was if I was depressed a week ago, I'm more optimistic now because and maybe it's because people see me on TV. I feel like I'm who I am on off the air, it doesn't matter. I'm trying to be the same every day. And I've been actually uplifted by viewers, even those who said I had no idea. I've been a little surprised that people would be surprised that I've been pulled over and frisked. That's that's that's

you know, I was a little surprised, But that's okay. Um, I hear people think game and I'm surprised you went through those things. I'm more happy and optimistic that folks said. I don't like that. Obviously hate what happened to George Floyd. I don't like what has happened to others in the African American community, to fellow American citizens. I mean that that's what that's These are fellow Americans, my fellow Americans.

I mean, these are fellow Americans. And and it's if it's important enough to to have those complex and hard to find answers in conversations, I still think it's worth it, and it's at least a start. Yeah, I mean, I think I think a lot about Augusta National. I mean Augusta National hosts the most popular golf tournament in the world each and every year, and one of the most popular sporting events in the world each and every year.

And while two thousand twelve, again two thousand twelve, that's not that long ago, was way too late to admit a woman member for the first time. Now, you know what is this year three of the year two of the Women's Amateur And you know, I bet your first year covering the Masters, you probably never in a in your wildest dreams, thought you'd see, you know, a female golf tournament happening on the grounds of Augusta Nationals. So, I mean, there there are people and organizations trying to change.

The one thing I have noticed in and and I was wondering about this with you, is you know, you write this piece for golf Channel dot com. Do you do you feel like in tw a you would have felt comfortable doing that and be you would have felt the backing that you got from the company, the co workers and on and on. Because I am feeling that movement almost as much as I am from the people. Is that companies seem like they're going, we've got to

step up. And I think that's very, very important, because you know, companies drive business, they drive discourse, they drive conversation a lot of the time, probably more than we know. And it feels like, you know, Adidas joining in on the Nike campaign they came out last week. I mean, they're brand sure, but you know, these are steps. I mean, these are steps in a direction that that does seem like again, there's a little bit of light there, you know. Yeah.

And I don't think I would have written this five years ago. Obviously, we've had situations that Trayvon Martin happened just before I moved to to Orlando from New York. Um, and I didn't really write about it. I didn't. I didn't really I didn't write about it then. Um, when I worked at Sports Illustrated, I was actually pleasantly surprised that no one stopped me providing this piece and said, well, it was a little too hot, this is a little

too a sensitive right now. I have felt support from the folks at NBC and Golf Channel for letting me express myself. After all, it was the folks that that said, you have to be yourself when you're on TV. Can't be somebody else. You have to be you. The viewer will see it, the viewer will know it. And I just said, well, I'm gonna be myself. I have to

be able to express myself. And I've been just I've been really surprised that at the positive reaction, and it makes me feel like folks want to make a difference. And whether it's you know that the question is, okay, so what do you do? Um? Is it going to the inner city and bringing a hundred kids to to the Bay Hill Tournament? Um? Is it systemic? Is it? You know, you know, education from K through twelve? Is

it that? Is it? Is it supporting black business? Is it calling your local police department and finding out if they have body camsh is it? You know? Is it conversations with the handful of of African American CEOs there's are four in the in the fortune may be over stating that that number, but there's a lot. There's a

lot that probably needs to be done. It's going to take a multifaceted approach, but I do think that there are people of all stripes that want to address this, especially in golf, which unlet's it's it's got exclusionary dn A. Um,

it just does. It's come a long way. Like gosh, the the members that Augusta as you mentioned, the drive ship and pot and the the women's amateur those are things that I when they're do in fathoms twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, and those are important steps and it just shows that there needs to be more to help

make the systemic and sustained the difference. And I feel like the governing bodies and the folks that have you know, skin in this game, part in the punt, are gonna do what they can to change the narrow of our country because we're not living up to the all men, all women are created equal. We're just not. And I think that was really shown in that nine minute video that that I'll never watch again. Yeah, I mean, you know, going to golf just you know, since we're we're golf people.

Is you know the something I listen, if if you type these words in your Gmail account, damon, you'd probably ten emails will pop up. Grow the game. It's it's something that has every organization, every network, every company has you know, jumped behind some an issue in the idea of growing the game. You know, my issue always with the with the grow the game sentence in Mantra was I've if if I was a minority, if I was a female, I would look at golf specifically in this

country and say, does that game like me? You know, because the hedges are tall, man, I mean, the gates are closed, and there's a guard guard gate there, and all the these unbelievable golf courses that you see on the biggest stages, you know, in high definition, aren't always the most welcoming. And I wonder sometimes, you know, when I look at at a country like Scotland, where you know, the best courses they have there are open to anyone and everyone as long as you've got a five iron

and a golf glove. That's not the case in this country. And I wonder if the the the idea that we have of growing the game needs to change. It's almost golfers need to grow, you know, we need to grow and be more accepting. Because you know, you said it. Do you go grab thirty kids from inner cities and bring them to a golf tournament or a golf course. Is that going to hook him? I'm not sure that's

one day. And if they get there and they look around and everybody's wide and it's you know, everybody's you know there, maybe they're not looking, but maybe they they do a double take at one point, you know, does that make you feel real comfortable? So I feel like as as a golfer, as a person that you know, as played private clubs and has you know, taken invites to these types of places that a member of a country club, you know, is is it my duty to

make golf feel more welcoming to people? Because I I imagine and your experiences golf doesn't always seem that welcoming. It doesn't always seem like it's it's excited to open the doors up to two places that maybe it hadn't open up board two before. Yeah, and it's not very accommodating or relatable to to someone from the inner city. It's just not. I say that knowing that golf is a lot of good with UM with its charity Drew

Charter for example, in Atlanta. I don't want to minimize the positive things that golf has done, But when you really get down to the nitty gritty, it's not a very welcoming It's a game, it's intimidating, it can be extremely exclusionary, and I just don't think it's very relatable. And I don't know how you a bridge that gap.

It's like, you know, a kid from the Cities is can't can't even wrap his or her mind around spending four hours or five hours at a country club and lunch at the turn and a cnar at the end, and it's just this, just this, it might as well be on on the moon, that that type of that type of thought about you know, the game of golf. And I don't know how you you close that gap. Whether it's investment in in in those communities UM or

you know, whether it's it's a one day thing. And I said to someone who's actually brought kids from UM near Stanford, which is north of Orlando, and had a bus of kids who had never been a go off course, had dam come to to Bay Hill on a Monday, and it was great and I was so thankful I was able to help Fastil tate that. But then they went back to their homes and it's expensive, man, golf

is an expensive game. And I do think there's something about the cost, the not necessarily always warm that it's hard. I mean, there's there are a lot of impediment I think of bringing golf um to the inner city and really making that type of difference. We're gonna take a quick break and be right back, So I'm gonna I'm gonna end it with this very happy question. So I apologize because this is gonna be I know, like you said, we're not sociologist, you know we we don't nobody knows

all of the answers here. But if somebody comes to you and says, Damon, what can I do right now? Like, what is there? What is something that I can do that would make a positive impact on society and where we currently stand to make things better? What would be something or some things you would tell a person that would ask you that, because you know, those are the

questions I feel like a lot of people have right now. Yeah, and I've I've thought about this quite a bit, and I would say you can almost get his grandmuler as you want, or you can go more big picture, whether it's educating yourself, I would say, you know, read a book, look look for books on this topic. If that's where you feel deficient. UM, you can donate to historically black colleges, which are in many ways suffering from a budgetary standpoint. UM,

you can support black businesses. You can google black businesses and support them. I would like to see a concerted effort by the governing bodies or the pg of American PJ Tour to have more interaction with with black businesses. And and there's different ways you can go about it. And I think it's gonna be what your comfort level is,

or maybe it's outside your comfort level. Uh, you know, spend a day in the inner city, go go go find a church or or or or a leader in the community and find out how you can help a sponsor a child. I think there are a lot of different ways to help. UM. I don't know what's most sustainable, but I think it's gon me one person at a time.

It's gonna be a couple of people here. It's gonna be having conversations, you know, with your own family, with your own friends, with your own inner circle, with people you play golf with at the country club. It's about saying, you know what, this is important to me. It's not just saying, hey, how cool am I? How cool is this? How how great is this golf club? Knowing that there are heavy issues, you know, beyond those hedges. So I

think that's that those are a few ideas that I have. UM, and I actually um your listeners may know that that I'm I've become a bit of a wine connoisseur. I didn't even know that there's a black owned winery in Nappa that I didn't even know about a couple of months ago. So I'm gonna order a bottle of wine, or a black owned one. What's it's It's appropriately called brown It's called Brown Estate. And my sister told me about it. It's been a couple of months now and

actually sent me some bottles and they're fantastic. And if you wouldn't have known that it was a black going winery, you just would have ordered it with your steak in a Friday night dinner or had it on Saturday when you're kicking up and watching a movie. Um. But but those types of things, I'm just I'm I'm I'm kind of anxious and eager and excited and trying to find different ways in small ways and big ways, Uh, to help make a difference in the community that's hurting right now,

inside a country that's hurting right now. Now, Damon, I said last question, and that's not true. I do want to ask a golf question about you. I do need to find out you know. I mean, we were one to know all time playing as teammates. How how is your current golf game? Have you been able to play during the quarantine, during everything that's been going on the

last three months, have you got out there? Because Arizona, we were able to play a decent amount of golf, So that's really been the only thing we've been able to do. It. Has that been similar out there in Florida? It has? And the beauty of this time has been that I've been able to play golf with my boys. And I have triplet sons. They're gonna turn nine years old on the ninth, and I've got two out of three die hards. My oldest Jame's oldest by a minute.

He's a bit of an iconoclass. I thinks golf has too many rules, a little bit slow, so he rather we need, we need, we need. I got two out of three. That's a good percent. But but but Jaymo wants to just throw the football around, and Miles and Reece they like to to swing their golf clubs. But it's it's been uh, it's been nice to bomb with them and spend some time my short game. I'm not gonna say it's good, but it's improving. I feel like I have a system now. I'm more of the Jason

Day Steve Stricker. Keep the hands out, let the body be the engine. That's that's kind of where I am right now. That's to kind of stop being so flippy at the bottom. So so I think there's some hope. I think there's some hope it should we ever pair uh together again abandoned, I hope we would walk away too. And oh after our great win several years back. Yeah, my my my son just turned one yesterday, and and obviously at one, at one year old, he's not uh,

we're not, you know, playing golf. But I did get him the Fisher Price set of clubs that they recommend much older and of course I don't listen to those rules. And I got him at and I will say this, Damon. His favorite toy is the driver. He just carries it around all the time. He goes to grab it whenever he sees it, and it makes it just it just as a father, I just light up. Man, I'm like, this is I'm so happy that this is something You have no idea what it is, You have no idea

what it does. You could care less, but at least you're holding something that makes dad happy, you know, because I I can't wait to do what you what you talked about is is getting out there and getting to see, you know, my my son find that love or maybe it takes him till he's forty. I'm never gonna push it on him, but you know, I just I'm excited to see what it's like. I can only imagine, you know, you getting to see that through your son's eye is

probably there's a rebirth of love for the game. And internally it's true, there's no doubt about that. Being outside and the reason why I love the game, camaraderie, fresh air, blue Skies, Bird chirping, you know, having fun with your friends. It's even more meaningful when it's your when it's your own child or or children. And I'm not surprised that your son would be grabbing a draft considering how well you hit that club. That is not a shock to

me saying at all. I'll pass the message. Damon. I appreciate it. I like I said, I know you know it's Friday. I know you've been bombarded by by request and by people, you know, just trying to get some time. I respect you. I always have, I always will. I love what you wrote and and and I know you well enough to know that you know one piece on

golf channel dot com isn't the end for you. And I I envision some editorial pieces on Morning Drive when you fell the need and uh and you've you've got the voice and and and you're such an unbelievable human that uh that you know you're you're a person that that does that gives me hope in a sport sometimes that I I look on negatively. So I appreciate it, and I appreciate you and and just you know, I just appreciate what you do. Man. I just I got all the respect in the world for you. Well, Shan,

I appreciate the time. I appreciate you having me on. I appreciate those words, and I feel like this is the beginning. And if I can be a part of the solution in a small way, If this conversation, you know, motivates someone to do something different, I think we're on the right track. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Samon, Thank you pal. We're gonna take a quick break and be right back. A big thanks to Damon Hack for joining

just being who he is. He's a great person, he's a great voice and uh and he's somebody that that I feel like it has really taken, you know, the golf burden of this on and has done an unbelievable job with it and will continue to do so as I know he will. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate you guys supporting the podcast, supporting Get a Grip.

You know, all the things that we do and we've done, and we're gonna try to come up with some ideas that are that are different, that are highlighting some things that maybe we haven't highlighted before. And again, we're we all can do better. We all can be better we all can improve. Hate has no home here on this podcast. Hate has no home here for what I do in and around my life. And I hope you are the same. UM. Enjoy your weekend, reflect on things, talk speak. Let's keep

the conversation going. There's no reason that you know by June tenth or or July August that this conversation shouldn't still be going, because it's a very very important one. And UH, and things definitely need to change, and I hope and pray deep down internally that they do. UM and that's all for me. Thanks again for listening, Thanks again for subscribing, and UH and I appreciate you. The Clubhouse was Shane Bacon as a production of I Heart Radio.

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