I'm Emily Chang, and this is the podcast version of The Circuit, my show on Bloomberg Originals. Today we're taking you to Seattle, Washington to meet Melinda French Gates. She's the famed billionaire, philanthropist, investor, and a champion for gender equality, education, health,
and human rights around the globe. Melinda is one of the world's most powerful women and became a driving force of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, but she was often publicly defined by her marriage to the man behind the Microsoft Empire. Now she's stepping into a new spotlight
that's unapologetically her own. I wanted to get a sense of the Melinda behind the headlines, the Melinda before the Gates, and travel with her to a special place in Seattle where it all began, when she was just Melinda French starting a new job at this little company called Microsoft. We've met a few times over the years, when you
were married to Bill and the foundation was humming. We spoke during the pandemic, when now that I read your book, you are hiding this separation, and now that you've written your memoir, I feel like the world knows you as Melinda Gates, but who is Melinda French Gates.
I am the person that I write about in the book. You know, I have a lot of friends in Seattle, male and female. I like to do puzzles. I'm intense at times. I like to have a lot of fun too. I love to travel, and probably the best kind of trip is where I'm learning something and or I'm getting to exercise as part of the trip, you know, hiking or biking or jogging, all of those things.
In the book you talk about you always knew you wanted to be a working mom, and you know, as we talked about Unlash, I had this power career, big tech and risen up in management. What was the transition like to leave work and be a mom full time and let that go?
It was something I definitely wanted. Because I was having this baby, I got pretty clamsy, so I was bed ridden a little earlier than I thought. I had to leave work suddenly. But I was planning to leave Microsoft, and really that had a lot to do with Bill was the CEO and traveling all over the world and to have the family life we wanted to have. I felt like I wanted to be home, but it was really hard on me. So much harder than I expected. I moved to a house that was very large, behind
a much bigger git. I have this new little baby who I adore and love. But you know, I don't have my career anymore. I'm not around all these hard charging people intellectual topics. So I had to learn over time how to rebuild that for myself through my friendships, and also start doing some board work so I could stay engaged.
One of the pieces of advice in your book that I love is you talk about not needing to be a perfect parent, but a good enough parent. Can you explain that?
Yeah, I wrote about that because it's a concept I didn't learn till my kids were in middle school, and I wish I had learned earlier. I'd always been this perfectionist, and that's not always a good thing, right, especially as you're a mom. And so when I finally learned this concept that children need one good enough parent and they're going to be okay, I could let my guard down, because there is no such thing as a perfect parent, right. But I had some mythical perfect mom in my head.
And once I thought about and read the concept of the perfect parent, someone explained it to me. I thought, why, I am certainly a good enough parent these kids, They're going to be okay.
Warren Buffett pulled you back to work when he gave thirty billion dollars to the Bill and the lind Of Gates Foundation, which you ran together for twenty five years. What was it that made you say I need to let this go and step back from that.
Yeah, leaving the Foundation was something that weighed very heavily on me. I wanted to be very thoughtful if I left, but it became just clear to me that the US was changing very rapidly before our eyes, that women's rights were being rolled back, and that I had a lot of work ahead of me that I wanted to do on that and to use my voice behind. And I also felt like the Foundation was in a really good place. It has a board now. Mark Susman's been in the
CEO role. He's fantastic. So I felt like it was a time I could leave to now emphasize and focus more on the US. I'm doing both domestic and global work at Pivotal Ventures on Behalf of Women, but I'm doing more domestic work given the times we're in.
Pivotal is now the center of all your work. You're making all of these bets, these gifts, doing all this research on your own. What are you saying that you can do differently given your social capital and your economic power.
Well, it's much the same as what I did at the Foundation. But I can use my voice completely and fully in whatever way I want and use my resources. I don't have to go to a board, I don't have to go to a partner to decide right, and so I'm using every tool in my toolbox, whether that's advocacy, whether that's philanthropy, whether that's investments, because I think all of those things are needed if we're going to really advance women to their rightful place in society.
President Trump pulled the US out of the World Health Organization, cutting back on scientific research, medical research, foreign aid. How is President Trump and these actions, how is this impacting the philanthropic world. I understand that there's quite a sense of urgency.
There's an enormous sense of urgency. Just take USAID alone. That is something that has been in place for a long time that both Republican and Democratic presidents supported, and there was a reason for it, a logical reason, which is, if people can be healthy and have peace and prosper where they are, they will want to stay there. And so the cuts in USAID alone, sixteen point nine million
women will not get maternal health services. Think about what that means to lose a mom in childbirth and she's already got children at home. I mean, you're going to devastate some of these communities. People are going hungry because of those cuts. And what I know from meeting so many families and so many low income countries around the world is those grants made a difference in their health and in their well being and in them being able to pull themselves out of poverty. As Americans, is that
what we want? Do we want to create more crises around the world or do we want peace and prosperity for others so they can live where they are?
So, how are you changing your giving strategy as a result of what you're seeing.
Well, there's no amount of philanthropy, none, that can fill in for the loss from the US government. And I think the thing people need to most understand is that was less than one percent, far less than one percent of the US government budget. So philanthropy can't fill that whole. What I can do is fund others who are also
working in those communities to lift people up. But make no mistake, the US has built infrastructure around the world, the labs around the world that report diseases so we know about them before they come to our own country. All of that infrastructure will crumble, all of it. And so to me, there's no logical sense. There's a logical sense for saying, maybe there's some places where there was waste or there was fat, maybe we need to cut
ten percent or fifteen percent. But a good manager looks at that and looks at it carefully before they make cuts like that.
It's not just science, it's potentially the Department of Education. What does this mean for America?
We don't know yet. We haven't run this particular experiment yet. But what I know is that we've had a healthy and thriving democracy. We've had problems around the edges of it, and definitely I'm the first one to tell you it needs fine tuning. But to wipe out the Department of Education, now, how is that good for students? You could decide you want to do a bit more at the state level.
A lot of what happens is at the state level, but there needs to be some guidance from the top, right, So why would you wipe out the whole Department of Education? How does that benefit students? We need to think about the end result of who's benefiting from these kinds of things, and is that the chaos that we want.
The critics of philanthropy say it's been astonishingly ineffective at solving societal problems. That giving has increased, but problems have gotten worse. There's a lot of critiques actually of billionaire philanthropy. What's fair and what's not well.
I would beg to differ on some of the philanthropy we know. Millions of people are alive because of the life saving vaccines that have been developed and given around the world the Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. Moms and dads uds in low income countries line up to get measles vaccines for their children because you know what a measle's outbreak in their community means that kids die. So
millions of children alive because of that. The President's Emergency Plan for AIDS relief, started by George W. Bush that has saved millions of lives. The rate of deaths of HIV have come down over the years, the number of children dying of malaria has come down. So has all of philanthropy been great? No? But has some of it? And can we measure some of it? You bet we can.
And philanthropy is only one tool in the toolbox. Philanthropy can take a risk that we wouldn't want government to take with our taxpayer funding, but it can prove things out at scale, and then governments can come in to scale that up. So it takes philanthropy, it takes civil society, takes government, it takes private sector. But there are large societal problems that are left behind that things like capitalism
doesn't solve. And as Warren Buffett says, those are the hard problems left behind, and philanthropy goes and tries and does their best to tackle those.
Speaking of measuring things, you, Bill and Warren started the Giving Pledge to encourage people to give away the majority of their wealth. Some people think it's inspiring, but it's all taught. There's no accountability. Are you tracking it and is it working?
We are tracking it to the extent we can. I mean, it's hard to know for sure if a particular philanthropist, if they choose to increase their giving next year. Are they necessarily going to give the giving pledge credit? Not necessarily. But what I do know is that a lot of the philanthropists have learned from one another and they'll get inspired by another philanthropist and then get going. Not everybody in the group, but some for sure.
Some good news. Women are actually coming into a lot more money. There's a huge generational wealth transfer happening. More women are making money at work. If women control more money globally, how could that change society?
I think it would change. It will change society fundamentally, especially if women control the money and can spend it the way they want. We have good global research that shows in most countries around the world, low and middle income, when a woman gets an extra equivalent of a dollar in her hand, she spends it on her children and on her family, and she spends it on medications for
her children. So women make different investments versus men. I also think when women control more resources, they will fund other women's businesses because they'll say, oh, yes, we need a new one of those, and the husband may not see it, or the man may not see it just because nothing's wrong. He just has a different lens on society, and so to me, it's profound when women can control resources,
and you're seeing it more in the United States. You're seeing more women in the middle class working, saving money. I mean, seventy seven million women in this country work, and of most families that have kids in the United States, sixty seven percent of them both parents work. There's a reason for that. They're trying to get ahead as a family. They're trying to support their kids with a good education.
And the truth is all over the world. When I've talked to moms and dads in all kinds of countries in Africa or Bangladesh or in India, they all hope and dream the same thing we do for our kids, which is a better future for their children.
Still, women's rights are under threat. What advice to you giving to your own daughters right now?
Use your voice, use your voice, learn, learn deeply, and to the extent you're ready, start using some of your resources on that. And I couldn't be more proud of both my daughters and my son for really learning about the issues and even making visits on the ground.
What advice are you giving your son?
Keep going, keep doing what you're doing. He has always believed in women's rights. He also believes strongly in our democracy. And I learned from all three of my kids, but he, of the three of them, probably the most is the one that helps keep me educated sending me articles. Have you considered this? Think about this other point of view? Mom? I know this is your point of view, but think about this other one.
Interesting, you voted for both Democratic and Republican candidates. You endorsed Kamala Harris for president, which I believe is the first time you've ever endorsed a presidential candidate. What do you hope happens between now and the next election, Like, is there a room of influential people somewhere trying to figure out how to empower the next generation of candidates.
I hope that in the midterm elections and the elections that come after that four years from now, that we have a lot more female candidates and a lot more candidates the color because when you get women into state legislatures, when you get them into our Congress, when you get them into parliament, when you get people of color in those positions, they create different policy for society because of their lens on society. And so what I know is
that we need more people in state houses. There's seven thousand seats at state houses, and we need more people in Congress that look like us.
Women do things differently. As we've been discussing Mackenzie Scott, I'm curious what you think of her style of giving. She's known for this more sort of no strings attached approach, just give people money and see what they do with it, whereas the Gates Foundation has historically been more sort of data driven and strategic. What do you think of her style of giving.
I think it's fantastic for her for where she is and what she wants to accomplish. She is living her values out in society. She writes about her values and then she lives her values through her giving. She's not just giving to any organization out there. She's giving to organization that she thinks are changing society and who are effective. And I think that's phenomenal good for her. I wish more people would put their money where their mouth is right.
I mean, we look at billionaires today. They're incredibly privileged, just like I'm privileged. They should be giving more away, They should be more doing more with their own wealth to change society. If you are lucky enough to have started a company or been born in this country, you benefited from this country and you should be giving back.
I know you're friends with her. I'm curious how she's influenced you. Did you reach out to her as you were trying to figure out how to leave your marriage and then the foundation.
She is a very private person and she deserves to keep her privacy. But I will just say we had children when they were younger, in and out of the same school, and so we crossed paths during that time. And then I would say probably the last eight years we've formed even more of a friendship. She's had a little more time as some of her kids go off to college, so have I, and so we have just a really nice, candid, supportive friendship. And I'm so grateful for that.
Thank you for sharing that. I know that she's very private, you know, I think about this question because men are so well networked and seem to be helping each other all the time, and I want that for women too. Do you have relationships you know, is there like a group of power women chat with you and McKenzie and Lorraine and Priscilla, Like, do you trade notes? About how to navigate this life.
Absolutely some of us definitely do, and those are conversations that are best left in private. But I've even in the last two years, especially after I saw what's happened to women's rights in this country, I've reached out to friends of friends that I never would have known before, even in Silicon Valley, and have gone and had a number of coffees and teas to try and get their perspective of what's going on, Where are you investing, how
how are you thinking about our democracy? So that's been actually another growth point for me, even to do that reach out, but also to hear their ideas and what they're thinking about what they're funding, and then some of us will start to co invest together.
You were high school valedictorian, You're the only woman in your class. At Microsoft, you impressed one of the smartest men in the world, and yet you still at times felt like an impostor. Is there something that you say to yourself to psych yourself up in the morning, because I want to say it with you because so many super successful women still feel that way.
Yeah, I think we have to look at the root of why we feel that way. Society is constantly telling us otherwise. In so many places, we walk in and there's no one else like us, or you don't see somebody who's a role model ahead of you, or you are literally told you don't belong here, or you sit at a table and people all talk over you. Right. So society gives us these messages, and we do have to put back on them. So when I have doubt,
I remind myself don't be quiet. If I start to feel like I want to be quiet, I have to think about what happened that made me feel that way, And remember that's often about somebody else, not about me. I was actually speaking with one of my daughters very recently on the phone who got harassed in public in front of a group of other people, really harassed and bullied, and her instinct was, in this particular group, I probably just won't speak up. And I said, m m m
m m m mmm. Let's roll back, let's talk about what happened here, yet again, let's go through it. And then I said, you may or may not choose to speak up in that group, but make sure you don't fall back. That's what this person wants you to do. They're trying to silence, you lean forward and figure out where else to use your voice or how to take your anger about that situation and fuel something else, fuel your work.
Yeah, so much of the world defined you not based on who you are, but who you were married to. Did the pressure on Bill or Microsoft and you ever make you feel alone or stuck?
Well, I didn't define myself that way, so I knew who I was, I knew how I was all along. So I think, you know, there were times I felt pressure, but I think that was mostly maybe right after we
got married, and certainly after Jen was born. And here I was, all of a sudden, living in this gigantic house that I didn't particularly like, behind a gate, and I realized, oh no, no, no, I need to really nurture my friendships because that is where I'm going to be able to make sure that I'm true to myself and who I am and if I am scared to use my voice or to speak out or I'm look. I was learning all new things, everything I learned at the Foundation. I don't have a background in global health
or biology. I'm a computer scientist, so it was hard to sit in rooms of male scientists, all male scientists at times, but I could turn to my friends and they would remind me, no, no, no, no, you got this. You're smart enough to figure this out. Yeah, you were nervous last time, but you went here, you know. Or they would send me an encouraging word. And that's what I think friends do for one another, male and female. But I've particularly leaned on my female friends.
I know the book is about the next day, getting to the next day, but sometimes you have to look back to be able to move forward. What was it that made you ultimately say I need to get out of this marriage.
Yeah. The details about that will remain between Bill and me and our kids. That was a very painful time for all five of us, and I think it deserves privacy as many people who've gone through divorce. No, it's rarely one thing that happens. It's a series of things over time. And so the only reason I even wrote about that in the book was because people did know it was public that I had gone through, and I thought it would be disingenuous not to include something about that.
Yeah. Well, Bills out with his memoir now too, and he said that the dissolution of your marriage is his biggest regret what was your reaction to that.
It is sad that the behavior that happened led to the dissolution of our marriage. It was the behavior, and you have to change your behavior to be able to be in a trusting intimate relationship. And if that can't happen over time and you've given many chances, then there are consequences.
Right What about you, like, did you let go of any dreams along the way?
Sure, the day I got married, I dreamt I was going to be married for my whole life. That is not That's not something you let go of easily. So I had to really think and feel through that decision. And again, I think many people who go through divorce don't expect on the day they get married that they will be divorced. It's a very sad thing. I wouldn't
wish it on anybody. But the thing that I knew and that some people could hold out perspective for me, is I was going to be happier on the other side. It might take time and I would have to rebuild some things, but I am happy. And that's what I say about transitions in the book, is it's really important not to go from ending one thing a job, leaving
college and just jump to the next thing. There are things to learn in that in between space, and I feel like I spent a lot of time in that in between space because there were lessons I wanted to learn and growth I could do myself.
Right, Change is an interesting thing and learning is an interesting thing. Like would you have changed a thing when you look back, would you change a thing?
I would have let go of perfectionism much earlier. I would have been more relaxed. I think for my kids it would have been easier at their younger years, So yeah, I would have changed that if I could.
You know, you talked a little bit about how you broke up, you got put together, you broke up, you got back together. Like, how do you know for the people out there, men and women who feel stuck in a marriage, how do you know when it's too hard? How hard is too hard?
I don't think I can answer that for other people. I think people have to find it in themselves and know what's right for them. Because our circumstances aren't all the same right, and different things happen in different marriages. We never ever know what really goes on inside somebody else's marriage that I know.
Yeah, that's the last question about this, but it's a good one. You didn't sign a prenup, which surprised me, and so you had to negotiate with someone who faced down the Justice Department. I feel like you learn a lot about someone in a negotiation. Who were you in that negotiation? What did you learn and did you get what you wanted?
I learned to surround myself with great people, and I do that in my life. I do that in my work. And I surrounded myself with a team who had my back, and I learned a lot in the process. We'll just leave it there, Okay.
When you worked at Microsoft, you had this project called Microsoft Bob. I wonder if it was ahead of its time, right, because it was software that would make computers easier to use. And now we're moving into this era of AI and agents doing everything for us. Like, what is life like in a world where AI agents do everything for us?
Oh? Gosh, I think it's gonna help us learn more quickly, move through our days more efficiently. I mean, some of those early concepts in Bob are actually starting to come to fruition now. So the thing that people always like to make fun of is Clippy. You know Clippy?
Oh?
Yes, oh remember Clippy. Yes. Clippy actually was one of the early agents that came up in Publisher and then Bob. So while Publisher was a success, while Bob was not because we didn't have enough compute power, the idea of an agent was really there. And those are some of the concepts I see taking off now. While that one happened to be particularly annoying, although it has a fan
base on the other side, I understand. But that concept that you didn't have to start, I mean, we used to sit down at a computer and graphical using interface was a blank piece of paper. Before that, it was a blank screen when you sat down at your word processor, whereas now you know you start with form. Well, now you talk to your AI agent about okay, help me write a resume. Here are the ten things I want to put in it, and it formulates it. You help
it reformulate it asks you questions. You ask it questions, and you know, you're so much more efficient than starting with a blank piece of paper to write your resume. I don't know about you, but I remember doing that. It was a big, daunting task.
But so how does life change dat we're all going to have our own personal AIS.
I think someday we will mm hmm, yeah, And I think personal is the key thing. It needs to be personal to us and our data doesn't need to be shared with everybody else.
What's your advice to kids today? Should they still learn how to code? Or will AI do everything for us?
Well? I think AI is going to do a fair bit going forward. But I still think there's value in learning to code. Like, I don't know about you, but I still learned to tell the time even though we were in a digital age, right, I think there's absolutely value and there's creativity in coding as well, and for your own mind, you're learning logic, right, So I definitely tell kids it's still a great place to go.
Women aren't only represented in the people who are building AI, they're underrepresented in the people who are using AI. What are the consequences of that?
They'll get left behind in certain ways in society. I don't know. My female friends and I are all using AI. I mean, it's kind of like, why wouldn't I use AI? In fact, we joke about the fact. One of my friends and I were joking we're on a walk yesterday with two other friends and this one friend and I worked at Microsoft, and it was like, so, what version are you on of chat GPT? We are just trying to stay up with the leading edge so that we
aren't left behind in society. I'm sixty years old, but anyone come up in society ought to be using AI. Students ought to be using AI. They will learn more deeply and better. One of the things I love about AI is that explains the concepts to you. It's not just giving you the answer, You're learning the concepts.
I'm using it all day, every day, so I hope it doesn't make me stupider because I'm like, really need it right now. I think it makes me more productive. That's where I've met it.
I think it makes you more productive. But also I don't know about you, but I'm asking it all the time questions about nature and society. I go to a low income country and I can immediately learn where does their GDP come from? What are the income streams, what are the outflows, what's the population? I can compare countries. When I used to travel to so many places in Africa, I used to have to take a piece of paper and somebody had to put those stats together for me beforehand.
Now I just ask Chad Gpt.
What do you make of the tech billionaires lining up behind President Trump and Silicon Valley's right turn.
I think there are there's certainly reasons that that has happened. But all I can say is I'm not going to comment on other people's values, but I will say this that in these times, I always believe we should live our own values, and that it's important to speak our truth and our own values in society. And yet what I have seen in the last six months to a year is many people who used to say one thing have absolutely shifted over here. And so I say to myself, well,
what are their values? Right? And look, a democracy is made up by our beliefs and our investments and our values, and we, of all times right now should be living those values out, not pivoting to what some comms person tells us is the right thing to do.
The Make Men Great Again movement? What's your take on that.
I don't ever like anything that pitts women versus men, or men versus women. That's not healthy for society. The truth is there are many great men in society, and there are many great women in society. We need to support both so that they both get to where they want to be in society and can thrive. We are seeing more girls graduate from college, so we do need to be making more investments in boys. We also need to be looking at why are young boys saying I
don't know what my future role is in society. I look at the mental health statistics for girls and boys, and I say, Wow, there's a lot of work to do. So there's just no reason to pit one against the other.
Elon Musk and Doge, how do you feel about one man, a billionaire, having that much independent power within the federal government.
Well, it's unprecedented, for sure. We haven't seen it before, right, and again, I can speak at great length about USAID and the work they have done in the world that keeps peace and prosperity in the world. And so to have anyone come in and say, you know, we're just gonna wipe it out like that, that makes no sense to me.
I have three boys and a girl. Yeah, which we talked about. We talked about responsibilities to our daughters and to our sons. There's a generation of boys coming up that statistics show are less likely to go to college, are more likely to feel alone, feel their opportunities are slipping away. What do you think is going on there and what can we do about it?
Well? I think we need to make investments in those boys. They need more role models. It can be a good coach, it can be a teacher at school if there's no dad in the home. If there is a dad, great, But we need to come together and really deeply understand what's going on with our boys. There's been some good research on this, but further I think needs to be done.
But people like Richard Reeves or Gary Barker, they are coming up with ways to support boys so that they can figure out good roles through society, ways that they want to be in society.
I mean, I appreciate that you're still speaking up about women. You know, as we talked about I wrote a book called Protopia back in the day. It does seem like the conversation about women making strides has gone very quiet. I wish there was just something that we could all get behind together. Why do you think that is? Are we scared? Is it cancel culture? What happened to our voices?
I don't think the voices are gone. But sometimes when you are strategizing and you're figuring out where you go next, like geopolitically, things have changed massively in the last few months, massively, So how we strategize and where we make investments and where we use our voices? Just give a little time. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. The best answer is not always the quickest answer. Yeah right, I mean, look at the work no Elson Mandelatid. Look how long
that took. It took a very long time, but the resistance was there all the way through, and eventually it came to fruition. So it's not always first mover or first speaker that has the advantage. Sometimes it's the person who quietly strategizes.
Well, let's take a look at the quick answer, the pullback of DEI, the rollback of DEI. How's that going to be written in the history books?
Not favorably. I do not think favorly. Again, you have to look at society. Who's in society right now? And does our democracy, do our state legislatures and does our Senate and does our Congress look like society? And the answer is no, we don't have enough Native Americans Asians, Black people, we don't have enough women, so we have to all be pushing to make sure that we have good representation in all of those places and culture. So the stories that we tell the movies, we know that
affects people. And the reason you need to have all of society represented in the legislature, in any governing body is because they make good policy based on their lived experience.
You recently turned sixty. Yeah, mommy at sixty, grandmommy at sixty.
What's that like? It's a joy, you know, as my adult children are truly adults now, they need you less or they need me less. So I certainly talk to them, I certainly see them, but you know, there's way less of the day to day that doesn't exist anymore, so it gives me more time. And then my granddaughters are on the other side of the country, but I try
to see them every six weeks. And it is absolutely delightful to have little ones again that you can run around the yard with, go down the slide, even when you don't think you want to go down the slide, you know, get on the outdoor trampoline. It's a delight dating it.
What's that like?
Fabulous? Much better than I thought, much better. Good.
You should be enjoying yourself. People love hearing about the habits of great leaders. What's one of your daily rituals or a habit that helps you be a great leader?
Well, I often try to do something somewhat difficult in the morning. So whether that's in the gym via exercise, or whether I've been going in the cold plunge now for almost a decade and how long can you go and stay in it? If you've done something hard in the morning, it tends to make the rest of your
day feel, at least for me, less hard. And then the other thing I would say is just I really work and have worked in the last twenty years to surround myself with people who will tell me the truth, be candid even when I may not want to hear it. But also just are good people. Smart people for sure. I like high intellect, high IQ, but just good values and it just makes everything easier. You know, you build trust over time. You can count on people, they can
rely on you, you can rely on them. I can be more vulnerable with them, which is nice because you know, not every day is a fabulous day, right, And so sometimes you come in a little cranky and you kind of just need to say that to people around, like, give me a little grace today because I may not be my best.
Melinda Frenchgates three point zero. What is the next chapter that hasn't been written?
Who knows? I am so excited. I mean, I think, certainly at least another decade of work, you know, making sure that women step into their full power. I hope more grandkids, but I don't want to put any pressure on my kids. And then we'll see from there.
Yeah, well, what do you want from the next decade?
Like for you, I just want to live my life the way I'm living it right now, which is I'm happy. I feel like I'm flourishing. I feel like my family and friends know that I love them, I know they love me, and I just want a whole lot more of that. I love that.
Thank you, Oh my gosh, there were so many times when you're speaking that I honestly I welled up because I feel like I feel like women have been silent and I am really grateful, honestly liked that you are speaking up.
Use your voice to thank you.
I will try.
I will try.
It's hard.
It is hard to use your woe. All have to use our voice and our platforms and our resources, any of those three or all of them, whatever we've got, it's going to take all of us and like minded men. There's so many great like minded men, and so it's just like, just because the loudest voices are trying to silence us, we should not be silent for exactly that reason.
Well, thank you for speaking up and for using your voice. Thank you, Thanks Emily, Thanks so much for listening to this edition of the Circuit. You can catch the full episode on Bloomberg Originals. I'm Emily Chang, follow me on x and Instagram at Emily Chang TV. And you can watch new episodes of the Circuit on Bloomberg Television or streaming on the Bloomberg Gap or YouTube and let us know what you think by leaving a review. Those extra reviews,
they really make a difference. I'm your host and executive producer. Our senior producer is Lauren Ellis. Our associate producer is Heather Glover Huang. Our editor is Alison Casey. Thanks so much for listening.