Interview Only w/ Sarah Isgur - Is The Supreme Court Truly “The Last Branch Standing”?

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Yourself without a party?

Conservative, whatever that means today? That's when you say, you know, it's interesting, you know, let's I want to steal on this a minute.

Yeah, because.

And I bet you you've had a conversation similar conversation with Joanah Goldberg. And on one level, we're all liberals correct, right, because we believe in liberal.

Correct. That's why I'm conservative, because I'm a liberal, which I know is the weirdest phrase ever.

But actually people that are trying to understand that, how would you.

Talk about this in the book too? Because people try to think about the court or the media sometimes covers the court like they cover Congress, and I'm like, yes, there's an ideological spectrum on the court, and yes it's conservative to liberal, but it doesn't map onto our politics particularly well. It maps far better onto what you're talking about, or sort of the actual like political science spectrum where you have anarchy on the one side and statism on

So what would you so I called my I don't so what I you know, A lot of people try to call me a centrist. You know, let's say you know, or they moderate or I get that.

I've heard people call you all sorts of things.

I've had. I've had a lot of names, but like those that are like some I'm serious about it. Somebody called me, you know, I'm gonna name drop here because you know that's what we do now as influencers. Right. Bono called me a radical centrist, and I've always.

That's actually the best name drop i've.

Yeah, yeah, And it was at.

One of these way So I in my book in that I have little mini chapters for each of the justices. And Brett Kavanaugh's biggest regret in life is that when he was staff secretary for George W. Bush, he didn't

Can I just tell you the single by the quick eyed side I'm working at the White House, or what I did covering the White House. The piece of advice I got was always have a stash of baseballs in your work area because you never know who's coming to the White House on any given name, and so I

But please say you're not throwing them.

So like what my and my Willie May's autograph was, I got that one on Air Force one. How do you like them apples? Right?

Like, you know, yeah, I so at DJ, we did not have as many celebrities coming through. In fact, we sort of frown on letting anyone in the building. But if you remember, at the peak of the Mueller investigation, the Washington Post like went out to artists and was like do your art but about d O J. And this is actually an incredible song. I highly recommend it. It's called Mister Peepers by Ben Folt of previous Ben Folds five. Yeah, and I really really loved the song,

That's so good. You know, that does mean I'm just gonna have to go listen to Mister Peepers. Now, I've got to understand.

So ben Folds is like a very high IQ guy. Yeah, And the song basically makes the illusion of Rod Rosenstein to Lord of the Flies and Piggy with the glasses, and that they're all trying to kill Piggy and like this fragile young Republic is actually one of the lyrics. Of course, quoting Benjamin Franklin, it is a smart song, like they should study it in English literature class.

So, boy, I love having you mine because it's all rabbit holes. But if we're going to go off on this rabbit hole, I've got two songs that fit that category of sort of like Joey Ramone did a song called Maria Bartiromo No and right, It's fantastic. It's it's all about he was obsessed with it was back when she was at CNBC. Yeah, and he was obsessed with CNBC. He was watching all of his investments and literally there's a lyric, what's happening at the stock market? You know, Maria Bartiromo.

She does have a lyrical name.

It is a riot and it's like again like when you hear it, it's just like what's happening on squat box? And he did this, like you know he's dead. He did this is like twenty years ago. He did this song. And I remember I early on at NBC. I prepped her for a debate, and you know when I was his political director, and she didn't have the greatest sense of humor about it. I thought she would. I was like really fired up, and you know.

I think it's kind of better than but like it's like being parodied on SNL, where you're like, that's you've a.

Right, They've arrived.

Joey Ramon, I mean, oh my god.

And the other one is Arim did a song. Do you remember the weird Dan Rather? And you're a little bit younger than I am, so you might not remember this. So one day Dan Rather is done with the news, and I guess he gets mugged. One night in New York walking home or something, and he talked about getting mugged, and he said the guy kept saying, what's the frequency? Kenneth and ari Em did an entire song called What's

A little dark but yeah, but it's I guess.

The song is one of those I never get out of my head and for anybody, I think hopefully I put him in so that we by the way, I think we could create a playlist of some of these life.

Like political songs. Well, just so you know, Rod Rosenstein actually like loves mister Peepers, and he and I talk. I don't want to say like every day, but like close to every day, is that right? We will, yeah, we will sometimes just still exchange lyrics from mister Peevers.

It's fantastic. So after we got derailed, I was going to ask you, I call myself an incrementalist, not a centrist, not anything. I could just say incrementalists for the reason you just described yourself as small C conservative, which you could argue, which is I believe for a country of three hundred fifty million people that you know, sometimes we'll move to do something progressive. Sometimes we'll do something you know, more libertarian. That to me is the real sort of distinction. Right,

In law, we would call that. You'd be a Burkian minimalist no revolutions. In the book I describe I have this like spectrum for the justices, Like, yes, there's an ideological spectrum, but there's also this institutionalist incrementalist spectrum, and I sort of call it aim small miss small if

That would have been my guest too.

Yeah, we could ask you some more questions and like which one?

Yeah?

Yeah, So you know, do you think that you have a unique perspective and you like to make sure that people understand you because you don't like being misunderstood or people assuming what you think that that sounds like you to me, like, I mean, given your job, right, Like, so that knocks out the chief right.

Somewhere between can and Kagan. Yeah, it's funny you say that, because I remember, and I think you and I have had a I remember believing and I I remember Susan Collins saying this to a source of mind. I couldn't

I think is right. He is in the majority more than any other justice in the modern era, including the justice that he replaced, more than Sandred O'Connor, more than Anthony Kennedy, which is wild because we always saw it that.

Majority maker for the longest time, Right.

He was the majority maker, right, And I think that thinking of Kagan as the center of the Court. Maybe that's not the right word, but she plays far more of a role behind the scenes than I think people realize because all they're seeing is the vote tally and they don't think a lot about Kagan is a strategic player, right, which solicitor general taking?

Yeah? How many solicitor generals are on the court?

Former solicitor generals, actual solicitor general. It's just her, just her us Some of them served in the solicitor General's office. So Alito and Roberts had both been assistant solicitors General.

Okay, do you think that makes you more likely to be more collaborative if you're in that solicitor general role or not? And that's always is that still the tenth justice? That's always been the joke, Right, it's the tenth justice.

I don't think after this administration that is.

Fair.

Yeah, it's just not right now. They do not sort of give that person the There was like a conversationalism to it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we saw you last week, casual mother. Anyway, what are you here to talk about today? Right, that's not happening anymore. But I think the bigger thing that you're getting at, actually that has a bigger effect is that they worked in the executive branch, and a lot of the current justices worked in the executive branch.

So the thing that bothers me the most about this court since Sandradale O'Connor left is the lack of experience on the campaign trail you are deciding issues, Chuck.

You want me to be a Supreme Court I'm so flattered.

Well there you go, Yes I do. I would look whether understanding the impact of your rulings and how they might play in the real world. I'm sorry, what you just described are nine people that do not live in the normal world. Have not really Washington is its own bizarre ecosystem, as you and I both both know. So you know, you know, I took some solace in the

Donald Trump said that he would put ted Cruz on the Senate because it would make all the other senators

I look at Alito opening feels very likely to me. It's the summer, and if I.

Were, it's very likely, whether it's this summer or next summer. Like it may not be this summer.

Well, yes, it may need to be this summer.

It may.

I mean, I think if you look, the Senate seems more in play every day.

Thank you Texan.

Well it's not just Texas now, right, You got Montana, you got Iowa, yet main in North Carolina already got already gone, right, so now they just need to find two more Ohio and Alaska. Look competitive, you've got textas you got. I mean, point is I think, look, the prediction markets already have Democrats favored to pick up the Senate. I think that's a little over uh over exuberant, but

There is no question that this White House is very eager to have a Supreme Court opening and lower court openings. They are putting the word out, uh, you know, let's let's do this.

We will Who's who's more likely?

Definitely Aldo Thomas has basically signaled that he does not intend to go, so stop bugging him. But this is why when everyone's talking about like, will Trump pick like a total lunatic to put on the court? Trump may want to put a total lunatic on the court, don't get me wrong, But if they need to coax Alito off the bench, they may have a bit of their hands tied. That may be part of the deal that

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You know I have a very good friend who was at that party, though.

Can I be a little bit like that felt forced? That felt like a forced leak.

Yes, okay, So basically as far as I have heard, again, this is not coming from the court or anything else, I have a friend who is at the event. It sounds like you got neurovirus at the party. So like he was, he was fine during the cocktail hour, and then suddenly he was not fine. If any of us have ever had neurovirus or have young children, were very aware of how that works. They were hours away from his home, and so the question was do you drive home or do you stop by a hospital to make

It was a non story that day. It didn't and then and then it magically leaks out like two weeks later, and I was like, hmm, that's intentional.

He's actually pretty young compared to other justices who have retired.

I was just going to take Thomas Thomas is the right.

He's got a book coming out in October, and some people have said, like, well, he made the book publication for the first week of oral argument, so clearly he doesn't intend to be on the court. And I'm like, or Justice Alito doesn't intend to sit through like a whole book to her like some people do. Did I mention it? No, So I think you can make arguments either way. He is enjoying his time on the Court.

Ted Cruiser Mike Lee is at all serious in your mind?

You know, if it were any other president, No, but

Yeah, yes, I do.

Okay. So to become a Supreme Court justice, you must be a circuit judge. To be a circuit judge, I don't mean you actually must, I mean in this current environment right by no means must you okay? To be a Supreme Court justice, you must have been a circuit judge. To be a circuit judge, you must have been a Supreme Court clerk. To be a Supreme Court clerk, you must have clerked for multiple circuit judges. That's many years

That's insanity. And you're right, like you have to start worrying about it at eighteen.

Right, And that's we don't want. You know, you talked about how he's people because of their resumes and everything else live in a bubble. We also have forced them into this bubble, so they now have twenty four to seven marshall service because of the threats that are not just online death threats, you know, someone showing up to Justice Kavanaugh's house with the intent of assassinating him and with the tools to do so. But it's not just

You know.

Justice Alito, as I mentioned in the book, used to walk down the street every day and go to the ko seat to get the little salad in a bowl

We kind of recognized him frankly on the street. I don't mean that it's not disparaging, it's just the most people wouldn't know what look like. Yeah, that was kind of a feature.

He brings a brown bag lunch every day, as do almost all of the rest of the justices. Because they get mobbed in restaurants. They have protests at their homes, and so we've put them into this like further and further, like retreated from human society. And at the same time, it's not really about these current justices that I'm particularly

Who have you met the United States Senate?

Yeah, No, that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to have the types of people who currently run for Congress. Either you can't make more money in the private sector, which should scare the hell out of you, or an actual psycho. And that's the choices you're going

Look it's I mean, you're you're certainly this rants sings my tune, you know. So let's talk about what broke the court. You know, and I know you your last branch standing. The last time we talked, we talked about the three three three court. Right that this is not a six' three. Court it's really a three three three. Court but BEFORE i gloss over the three three, three go through your three three three, again AND i assume It's, Kavanaugh Barrett roberts in the. Middle is that who your

There think of it as high school lunch. Tables you. Know it's not that they always sit, together but like, generally if you're going to the lunch, room you're going to be able to find them at the. Table so the, Chief barrett And kavanaugh are at the cool kids. Table they're like the jocks because they're most likely to be the fifth vote in any. Case they are almost always in the majority more than ninety percent of the. Time, okay now we have like maybe our like super nerd

Spectrum, no they feel like Brand, i Brandeiserch but we'll get to that.

Anyway, yeah and then we have my table THAT i call the conservative Honey. Badgers they're sitting, together but they don't actually like they're like sort of the. Misfits they're like reading their own books or like looking at their own magic the gathering. Cards but while seated. Together That's, Thomas,

Well, LOOK i think what's interesting to me, though is that in your threes, right in the two, wings gorse such will. Flirt you, know isn't always with the two.

Right he's a, libertarian so that's always going to be different because that's what libertarians have to.

Be alito And thomas feel the. Most alito And thomas on the, Right jackson and so to my or on the left field the most. Political and what DO i mean by? THAT i want to give my definition of what political, means meaning wherever they think the, convention conventional

That, OKAY i am going to push back a little because the equivalent To gorsuch is Actually. Jackson they are the low. Institutionalists they are just there to speak with their own, voice you, know like they're.

Soloists by the, way there's my favorite opinion of the year is score such and the tariff the tariff, CONCURRENT i mean, opinion it is the f You, congress get your shit. Together it is like you preach, brother like you, know, yes like you, know please keep doing. This AND i hope someone on team on the left side of the court says something, similar because this needs to. Me what

Follow this tangent for a, moment which is this is the, reason by the, way that we're talking about the court so, much that people feel The court is so much more partisan than they did in the. Past and it's, because let's you, know there's two cases pending this term that everyone has sort of maybe heard. About one is Can

LOOK i look back AND i think, about you, know how long Has congress been? Broken and you, know we sit here and we, say, ooh it's so. Polarized and you, know some people want to, say, oh it's New, gingridge and then some you, know if you go back, further they're all. Right so. Right, WELL i go back EVEN

Done Why pittsburgh did not Like roe Versus. Wade she thought they were winning the political, fight and she wanted to win it at the ballot, box whether that was state by state or In, congress because she knew that that decision and the way that it was, written the way that it was, decided was incredibly.

Vulnerable, WELL i don't understand why equal protection wasn't work.

Used but she was mad about that. Too she was, like this was a decision about the doctor's. Rights what about the? Women she was, like she was mad like six ways To sunday and it was. Amazing this was all before she went on the, court by the, way now it's.

All it's actually really well documented in that one documentary about.

Her, right, yeah, yeah but, okay here's the one Thing i'll push back on what you. Said it's not THAT i. Disagree you're of course totally, Right but The court has been seen as political Since. Jefferson, Right jefferson was trying to Impeach Samuel chase for being too political on the. COURT fdr thought The court was being. Political that's why he wanted to pack It, lincoln, right must we ignore all the laws but one we are not ruled by

Current moment that we're. In, Right and it's sort of like and you, know and look there's AND i don't know of, course then it's there's the confirma. Right as the court became this be all end all for people's. Rights, well then of course it raised the stakes for the confirmation. Process it's sort of like the chicken and egg. Argument what has politicized the? Court the confirmation process Or congress's inability to deal with issues in the court having to

It's so so. Bad AND i think we, see like,

Period it doesn't matter that the incentive structures are you, know are. Not AND i Love i've not heard that, argument but that's my favorite new argument frankly of reason to be against, it which is like you, YES i, mean you're like it is unfair to those that appear in front of the court, period, yes you, know especially when you described, right like you, know for for just deciding state crime, issues, yes.

Which is the, vast, vast vast majority of our law is done at the state, level very very little well even have the opportunity to go to The Supreme. Court so, YEAH i.

Don't even like. RETENT i don't even think. Retent you,

Or nonpartisan, elections but they never end up being non.

Nonpartisan wisconsin's nonpartisan on, paper you, know if you go in the. Ballot, yeah you, know, LIKE i, mean it's just insane this and Like wisconsin's Because. Wisconsin i've always, said you, Know wisconsin's ground zero for our. Polarization they were polarized before the rest of us. Were i've spent time there and all this, Stuff so of course there was. Companies they're the ones that have weaponized the court more than. Anybody it's, awful but we Were, yeah.

We were talking about just the nine. JUSTICES i don't like that was ten minutes ago that Gorsic and And jackson are so similar and they join each other's concurrences because they view their roles on the court so, similarly even though they are ideologically so far apart on that other, spectrum on the institutionalist incrementalist, spectrum if you, will they are non, incrementalists non institutional they.

Feel that's why is it brandeis that was seen as the guy that wrote wrote dissents that eventually BECAME.

I, Mean John, Marshall, Harlan we've had like these.

Randise, yeah that two generations, later their descents would be the foundation for opinions right for positive.

Whereas Like kagan And, havena AS i, said, again they're not next to each other, ideologically but they are right on top of each other incrementalistly institutionally, Okay but here's something you said that was incorrect THAT i want to, correct which is this idea That thomas And alito are more again political by the definition you were. Using all of the very very few of these cases fall into that category to begin. With so in the last twenty, years over ninety percent of the cases have had at

License that trump's your quote free speech.

Rights that's right. Now another example of something like that is on The raheemi case about this, guy he's like the worst guy In. America he had two domestic violence restraining. Orders he shot up a water. Burger don't worry because he was also a drug. Dealer that case was eight one And thomas was the sole dissenter and they're arguing about how to apply you, know text history and tradition in The Second amendment to domestic violence restraining orders when

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I am a textualist and not an.

Originalist, yeah Mister gorsuch calls himself a, textualist not an.

Correct, oh let's sit on this table for a little. While, Okay gorsic is a, textualist, Okay and these are all their own terms for. Themselves gorsich is a, Textualist alito is a feint hearted, originalist And thomas is a bloodthirsty.

Originalist very, nice, okay, Okay so basic difference between the count you, WELL i, Assume, well, anyway you tell me the basic difference between the originalists and.

Textualists gorsich is going to read the text of the Fourteenth amendment or of that, statute and it doesn't matter whether they understood what they were agreeing, to because he's going to look at the text and, say, like, look you said equal. Protection you, know you didn't know what gender identity was or, whatever but like it says equal and that's what we're going to do. Now you, know in the case About, bostock it was employment discrimin and

Time and what do we call everybody? Else?

Uh, well the chief has eschewed any. Label you, know he's a little bit harder to pin. Down he's obviously, conservative but his methodology is not originalism or. Textualism it's you, know something else entirely that he hasn't given us a label.

FOR i was Just roberts has always felt like he reads the. ROOM i don't know what else to. Say he just reads the, room and it's, like where should we be on?

This and heavy is the head that wears the. Crown he is not just the chief. Justice he is the head of a branch of.

Government and it just sort of feels, like you, KNOW i go back to the you, know his most famous five to four before anything he ever did With trump was the healthcare. Right, yeah and when he became the guy that Let obamacare, live it, was you, know he

That, Right LIKE i think he actually presaged what was, coming which Was congress not doing. Enough and so When congress does do, SOMETHING i should encourage that. Behavior. Right it's like when your kid does something. Good they didn't do it quite, Right like they were unloading the, dishwasher but they dropped the dish and you're, like, no great, Job. Love when you unload the, dishwasher definitely don't worry about that broken Dish let's just keep the unloading.

Up, unloading. Right, yeah so that at the end of the, day you, know had this been you, know maybe he doesn't come down on the side of this law if it hadn't been something that originated In.

Congress, yeah one hundred percent. True he is really there policing the line but between the presidency and The, congress and he is trying to Give congress a chance to to be forced to do their. Job kavanaugh is more of that fainthearted. Originalism his level of generality is even

Her she's a Rule she's like very the rule follower is probably the best way to. Discribe wait a, minute you didn't check this box when you file. It, sorry can't, no, standing can't take it?

Right, yeah which her argument would, be that's not just her being a, stickler it's actually good for the. Court you want to have these like very good vehicles that are correctly, positioned because otherwise you don't want the court deciding like you don't want the court inserting itself into something that isn't actually a problem, Yet and so she wants the court to stay out of as many cases as possible until it's, like, well we're kind of stuck

Say is it just? Me or do we have more people wanting to put pen to paper now than ever? Before with these.

Justices they're taking fewer cases than, ever and they're writing more than ever. Before we didn't even used to have these concurrences and. Descents until about one hundred years, ago and in the nineteen, fifties we were at about, one maybe around one concurrence per, case roughly, speaking now we're

Case was it seven or? SIX i can't remember. Now it was just, like, wait they're all over the. Place who didn't write like it was a shorter. List you're, like, well Not, thomas, right like you, know he, said wait a, MINUTE i don't have to Do i'm not doing extra. Credit, no, no, no, no.

IT'S i think it's bad for the. Court this is, where like kavanaughs a million, voices The constitution, says there shall be One Supreme court of The United, states not nine oracles who each give us their own reading of The chicken And. Trails But gorsach And jackson want to read The chicken And trails every. Time And Kagan kagan is she has poo pooed the heck out of these. Concurrences she calls them The, HEY i Think i've got something to say throat.

Clearing, YEAH i. Know it's, like, look everybody wants a. Podcast we should just let them have, podcasts you know THAT i have something to, say just let them do it in a podcast speaking, hobbies.

The, JUSTICES i write about The justices hobbies a lot in the, Book like what movies they?

Like give me.

Some, Yeah kagan is a serious poker.

Player, NO i, KNOW I i know, This, LIKE i don't mean she's playing poker with her. Friend, no, no, no, NO i. Know let's just Say i'm in A i'm in a related poker, game BUT i don't. PLAY i don't, WELL i won't play those, Stakes So i'm not in that. GAME i know the. Game i'm aware of the you, KNOW i always get invited to the smaller steak. One that's All i'm going to.

Say there was also this great MOMENT i, thought So

Heard by the, way in the, books are you A Slow horse? Fan? Yes in the, Books Gary oldman's character is even. Grosser just, so, like how is that?

Possible?

Oh apparently that's WHAT i. Thought apparently someone tell me it's, like, oh if you're grossed out by what he does of the, Show like it's just a taste because the books are just. Awful when it comes.

To, Him, oh here's a fun one THAT i think you in particular will. Like Justice alito's favorite. Movie and by the, way it's not just his favorite. Movie he actually has the like poster In.

Chambers let's see IF i can guess give me a.

Topic you will never guess this.

Ever, OKAY i said that.

Being there The Chauncey gardner Movie, wow which feels particularly appropriate in this.

Moment it weirdly does with, him especially because you know he's sort of an Accidental. Justice he was a backup. Plan you, know he was the backup. Plan trying to think how many plan b's are on.

There, well he's a double backup plan, too because if you, Remember Sandra day O'Connor retired and they Picked John roberts for that. Seat then the days before his, Hearing renquist passes, away so they Moved roberts over to Cheap. Justice Then Harriet myers gets the O'Connor, seat Then, alito so he's almost like the third, pick as Was, kennedy, Right it Was, bork Then, ginsburg Then kennedy who got that. Seat The ryer was a.

Double Now briar was a double backup Plan cuomo And babbitt If i'm not.

Mistaken, WOW i mean it's hard to imagine THE Us Supreme court Without Stephen.

Bryer. Oh and he was not the first. Choice he was the he Was kennedy's first, CHOICE i, think for what it's worth back. Then but remember this was at first it was The cuomo thing that.

Yeah, yeah no you're and and.

Then Bruce babbitt was and then he had SOMETHING i can't remember what it. Was maybe it's. FINANCIAL i don't think it was, anything you, know outside of being. Financial AND i have no.

Idea What risberger. Remembered Duggins bring has a dropout because he had smoked pot with his, students with his.

Students do you think he had to drop out because it was with students or do you think he would? Have you, know it's always been because he smoked weed with. Students do you think if it had been weed at his house without, students he makes? It or is it eighty? SEVEN i still think it's A i still think he's.

Gone, YEAH i THINK i think he's. GONE i just you, know especially you, know you can think back to the Moment, linton years later is still going to have to SAY i didn't. Inhale it's like nearly going to derail his. Campaign it's going to suck up three weeks of a media. Cycle so, like, yeah but the fact that it Was GEORGE. W, Bush we're just worried about.

Cocaine we weren't worried about weed, anymore.

And, today my, God I'd i'd take the. Cocaine we have a teetotaling president in every, respect and it's, like you know, WHAT i don't, know maybe the drugs weren't so Mat can.

You imagine what he'd be like on, alcohol on, drugs, like, like thank God, TRUMP i mean this could be something you, know we always wonder is he self? AWARE i think on this he's self? Aware trump on out Drunk. TRUMP i, mean it already feels like the country is being led by a drunk, Driver LIKE i think we're going to go in the correct, direction but we're swerving all over the, place AND i just right like and he's stone, cold so,

The wisdom in the moderation in all, things including. MODERATION i, UH i.

One, time early in young, adulthood for reasons THAT i won't speak of, here, uh took a class about moderation and it was An it was an Interesting it was about you, know just you, know do a, little don't do. This and you're sitting there, going, hmm should we teach this in school or? Not because we don't because we're afraid we're actually giving a permission slip to, try right. Right we don't teach moderation until after you've made a.

Read Mackay coppin's gambling. Piece oh, yeah if you'd like to have more of a you, know a debate at the dinner table about the value of moderation or the value of abstention, entirely that piece really actually makes you think about it in an interesting, way and the sort of how religion serves a masked tying purpose in.

Life it's the upside of, religion, yeah is how it can. Serve but let me get you out of hearing, this, Okay and it is my AND i think IF i remember the last time we, TALKED i, said, hey LOOK i want to do, this and you were, like, well we have to save. That SO i go back to federal seventy, eight AND i go back to one to you, know what was the original, Intent and the original intent is to get the least partisan political people you can. Have so why wouldn't it be seventy five percent of

Yep so why you?

Know tell, me how have the proposal for?

You SO i put this proposal in the. BOOK i stole it from Two harvard law, students both Named. Tom here's what The tom, suggests AND i am radically in favor of it BECAUSE i think the end of the filibuster is destroying the judiciary and we are just at the er.

Blue WHETHER i buy the idea that they are all individual, thinkers but guess, what most of The american public. Thinks they're no more black, robes they're red and.

Blue And biden's picks were more liberal Than. Obama's trump's picks are more conservative Than. Bush's and it's this idea that if you can't get a vote from the other, side like we used to have general, elections so you used to run to the middle if you wanted to be a, judge and that. Included in law, SCHOOL i had tons of friends who were very politically liberal because we all were, like you never know someday and now without the, filibuster it's a primary, election and so you're

WAY i Think i've told you a piece of the story, offline But i'll share it. HERE i had somebody very close to me who had who was asked about whether they'd be interested in a federal judicial federal. Judgeship but the requirement was they had to join The Federal. Society like there was like an actual requirement before they could ever be nominated.

Because they will get confirmed right.

Now and you're just, like, WAIT i have to join in some private club like this this person to any of these, Clubs like that's just you, know this is not and you're just like what, Right like what do we?

Do, okay here's the, proposal because there was a, problem you, know like there's a reason they got rid of the. Filibuster Harry reid thought that The republicans were being unreasonable in not confirming judges to the D C. Circuit The republicans wanted revenge because The democrats refused to Confirm Miguel estrada to the D C circuit because they wrote this, down by the, way because he Was, latino yeah, somehow.

Yeah that this was going to Help, republicans.

Right, Yep and so because of his race they would not confirm. Him republicans were very very. Upset. Understandably, okay here's the. Proposal there's two ways to get confirmed to A article three. Judgeship number one is the old. Way if you get more than sixty, votes you are. Confirmed. Congratulations. Great if you do, not but you get a bare

This you, know the state Of, NEVADA i believe you, have a referendum has to pass twice before it gets added to their. Contry if you do, it is, yeah a good to do it two cycles in a. Row, yeah.

Yeah, anyway that's my proposed solution in the book to how you fix the confirmation.

Wars that's not. BAD i, mean LIKE i, Said i'd just go to seventy five and you, know and you would get a certain type of person picked right, Eventually, no AND i think even in this the one you're, describing you don't want to have the person come up the second, Time so you're probably going to try to find somebody who can get.

Sixty so, yeah you're gonna have to wait for two years to fill, that you.

Know like and by the, way in case people are, wondering it's simple Active congress can decide.

This oh, yes, right, yep they.

Don't there's nothing in The constitution that says how The senate should confirm these.

Justices do you know what else they could fix really easily with An act Of, congress maybe the Same act Of congress forum. Shopping there is no reason if you were asking for nationwide relief of whatever, kind or if you are challenging an executive order you know, regulation that

Them, Well, SARAH i think you. Are you are becoming my favorite go to person on all things legal in The Supreme. Court sorry to my Friend. Ms, Totenberg sorry to my friend With Pete williams down retirement you, know you're you're my go. To, okay just to.

Be, Clear pete And nina are my. HEROES i just event you, like and.

They're On Mount. Rushmore don't get me, wrong they really, are but you, know And Willie mays was an amazing baseball. Player but show Hey otani And Aaron judge dominating, today they were you're Your it is your, Time Miss.

Sisker all honor To pete And, Nina, yes who have been so supportive of me and of this. Book they have helped me behind the scenes. Enormously so do you stand on their.

Shoulders the Entire Supreme Court press cort seems very, collegial And i'm incredibly impressed about.

It LIKE i can see your rattle off, names but Like, Laura jared is my best. Friend Devin dwyer AND i text every. Day Amy howe is the most amazing human and. COLLEAGUE i hear.

This all the. Time And pete would tell me. STORIES i used to, like would go Into pete's. Office, Hey, pete tell, me so tell me about your lunch with you, know the yearly lunch you got to have with the with The Chief justice and you, know, WELL i can't say, this BUT i can tell you generally WHAT i. Hear you, KNOW i can IMPRESSION i, Well lewis is one of my is one of my all time favorite people in the. World that's his real first. Name don't tell Any he's

Lewised you, know At John Carroll university Where Tim russert went and they have The Tim russer at, school there Is Pete week twice a, year AND i went For Pete week this, year and.

Well you should. Come you need to come On may. Seventeen you need to come On, Sunday may. Seventeenth that's commencement because there's somebody that's going to be giving a commencement. Speech oh, Interesting SO i might see you there if you choose to. Come i'm Hoping, pete but we're going to find out If pete. Comes i'm hoping he will. COME i think he'll be. There we all at U X nbc or is always pay homage to our friends A John.

Carroll, yes it's an amazing.

School, anyway congrats on the book you're Gonna is it all a virtual book? Tour do you get to go places.

No let's. See, yeah this podcast will be released On tuesday.

Week.

Yeah, Yeah so this WEEK i am At Harvard Law, School university Of, Denver San, francisco and Then i'll be Doing Bill maher On.

Friday the law school visits are going to be.

AWESOME i love that talking to law. Students that's BECAUSE i wrote this, book you, know for me before law. SCHOOL i went to law school BECAUSE i Watched Legally blonde and was, like, yeah that makes sense for my. FUTURE i can do El woods and LIKE i needed to read this book BECAUSE i had no. Idea CAN i, Ask.

Okay i'm going to make myself feel old Because i'm doing this on behalf of some of my. Listeners, yeah did you at least go back in time and Watch Paper?

CHASE i read a Paper chase and one l By Scott turow the summer BEFORE i went to law. School BUT i got to tell you WHEN i show, Up Elena kagan is my. Dean that's you, know HOW i get to know her AS i talk about in the, book and it is a totally different. Place CAN i give you one example of what it means to have

To make leveling the playing field that was leveling the playing.

Field, yeah, yeah we had she put in a sand volleyball court like on campus so we, could you, know get a little. Exercise there were happy hours On, thursdays hot dogs and ice.

Cream you think she's doing that to this, Day come, On, clarence let's it's hot.

Dogs let's.

Go she's a big baseball. FAN i know that she.

Shows up at the clerk happy hours. Sometime so Every thursday there's a cleerk happy hour at the court and she is one of the justices known to swing by because she likes the. Tea, MAN i don't mean the, drink you, know she likes the hot goss as the kids. Say BUT i do note in the book that ice luges have been banned from The thursday happy, hours.

Which means they were once, there which is.

Yes they.

Were, Yeah WELL i this you have really sold. It, WELL i will tell you that you have sold this. Book, well. Congrats and my only concern is it's the last branch standing for, now, yes right or? Now because we have this is you, know this is the last court that has people on it that's been produced by a sixty vote threshold in order to sort of get into the. System when we start to have a court that is majority fifty vote, only that feels like an even more unruly court than we've ever.

Experienced we have not yet seen the results of our current political moment on this court because the court is always a lagging into indicated.

Right first ten, years, right we're in the first ten years of The.

We've got a few years left to fix some of this. STUFF i have my reforms in the back of the. BOOK i have some proposed amendments as well so, yeah.

Awesome, congrats thank you for spending time with, me And i'm going to be bugging you. Again Maybe thumbnet you'll decide you want somebody who does not have a legal background to be on, advisory but we'll, say.

Oh perish the.

Thought thank.

You, bye