¶ Rahm Emmanuel joins the Chuck ToddCast
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¶ What does the average week look like for Rahm Emmanuel?
That's thirty dollars off your first box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain dot com slash podcast, or simply use the promo code podcast at checkout. This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code well. Joining me now is somebody who may or may not be interested in national office someday, but he's certainly got a lot to say about where the Democratic Party ought
to be, what policy focuses ought to be. And I've been fascinated to follow what Ram Emmanuel's been up to because he's tackling issues that, if you read the polls, are issues that sort of less political Americans want politicians to focus on, probably the biggest one being education. And everything derivative from there. He is not going out there trying to be the shiny object of the second And
¶ Trying to get a good understanding of AI & energy distribution
you know, you could argue maybe we're playing a little tortoise and hair aspect to this. So I enjoy catching up with roma Manuel because he's a lot of smart things to say. And at the same time, he's been around a block a few times politically, and this current political environment looks awfully familiar to me from a political environment that you oversaw in two thousand and six. So there's a ton of things I want to get to.
But first let me start with with a simple question other besides speaking out when I see you speak out and all that stuff, what else are you doing right now? Like tell me your what's what's the average week like for Ron e Manuel?
Well, I mean, I'm uh so. I was on the way about a week ago. It's one of my favorite habits or pastimes. I was gonna go give the keynote to Lynda Vane's Johnson Library, which is all the presidential libraries. I really love that library. Why so because I actually
¶ Candidates better understand AI because it's driving economy
think the architecture, uh number from Chicago soil were kind of I think the architecture captures the personality of the president is just big. It's power. It just you know, you walk in there's a picture, big black and white ten by ten him signing the civil rights at the Voting Rights Act, and then there's a line of wall of pens going all leading you all the way to the photo of every bill he ever signed. I mean, that's just like it says Johnson. And then now it
¶ 2028 election will be about the future not the past
get captures a character. And anyway, so I picked up when I texted Doris Kurrn's going her book Unfinished Love Story about her and her husband and Zara back. So I've been to amy by why by coincidence, we didn't plan this. I'm reading it, she's listening to it, and so that's kind of and then obviously my three kids and they're in different points in their lives, etc. But then I'm you know, reading a lot on AI. I'm learning besides my I try to read a book every
three weeks, but I've started to solicit. I had dinner the other day with the CEO of Anthropic and we had a dinner for a little over a couple hours and he gave me some reading and I've been reading on that. Somebody else gave me some other stuff, so I'm trying to get smart on that. I took a subject next is energy production here in the United States and great and distribution. So I take a topic and
try to delve as deep as I can. But if you ask me, what is occupied my time making sure my three kids are off to a good start in life, and which they are.
But you know, it sounds like whether you look, I know you're thinking about it. You could do it, maybe you don't do it, but it sounds like you're you know, if you said you're going to run for president, what do you do to prepare? Well, one of the things I might suggest is, well, why don't you go learn about AI because if you've got a govern and economy that's going to be driven by this, because that's what
you want to do. Yeah, you better know a lot more about it, because I have a feeling our last
¶ Education and vocational training are the ticket to middle class
two presidents, the current one and the previous one, didn't know much about it.
Hey, well, a couple of things on let me unpack like twenty of the questions right there. One what I'm very excited about, and this is since we're both political junkies but also policy Chuck twenty twenty eight will be the first national election in twenty years. In my view,
that will be about the future, not the past. If you really look at Build Back Better and Maga you're driving fifty five miles an hour head looking through the rare view mirror twenty twenty eight, both for our party's primary, and you also look at our primaries, I'm going to had this in so a real discussion about the future and the countries. Naturally, the general election will be about the future, not the past. There won't be some kind of yearn to a era that bygone time? What will
America be? So to me, that's exciting and b whatever you come down to wild Western AI, don't let it go forward AI kind of those are the extreme positions. Whatever it is. We have a very technical innovative advantage against China. They have an energy system that can do it. And we got to neutralize a negative that allows a positive. So to me, those are two subjects that are tied.
But the other thing is you ain't getting from here to there, and those is you know, I have focused on education now in two weeks from now, you know, I went to Mississippi to talk about elementary education, etc. And see the mississip be Reading miracle in Michigan, in
¶ Coding used to be the most sought after skill, now it's irrelevant
Grand Rapids and in uh how I will lay out a vocational ad plan because the ticket to the middle class runs through the classroom. Without it, like the Langran colleges, like the universal high school education, like the GI bill, like the Science of text Footnick Challenge. Without it, there's no middle class in America. That's the door you got to walk through to open up all the other doors.
And to me, now, one last comment, and then this is also politics, which I'm you and I are at least the two of us are good at I found it fascinating. In the Texas special, the Republicans said, oh, this is a warning, which is true. Democrats said, look at his background. What he said was was nobody you listen. I stayed away from all the cultural issues and I focused on education and vocational line. Do you ever hear
that before from so anybody else? That's my point I've been talking about because as you said, it may not
¶ How to prepare students for a rapidly changing world?
be one. It may it doesn't come quote unquote under affordability, but it's where people live their lives.
So I saw, I observed a focus group, and I keep sharing this anecdote because it really sort of jarred me. And I got two kids now, both of my ket got one about to graduate college and one as a freshman in college.
Mother, thank you.
I'm I'm a first year of empty nest, which really sucks. When there's a big snowstorm that.
That would be real. Go shovel your mother wants it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, none of that works, right, And there was a participant in there that said something interesting that sort of haunted me about education, which he says, you know, I don't know.
You know, he says, you know, ten years ago, everybody said kids had to learn to code, right, and now what are we learning with AI That might be a meaningless skill, ye, right, something that we were trying to reorientate stem education, right, We were trying to reorient a lot of education that way. And the way that this person worded it was sort of, you know, my greatest fear is I don't even know what skills my kid needs to succeed when they go out into the world, because
it keeps changing so fast. And I thought, you know, I think my parents had an idea of what I needed to know to be out in the world. I think I've tried. I certainly guided my kids to where I think they can succeed. I got one in oceanography, one in sports marketing, where I know is a future
¶ AI won't eliminate vocational professionals
oriented posture. Right, But that comment struck me because I get it right, things are moving so fast. What are we getting? What's the education for?
Right?
And what skills? You know, we haven't redesigned our public education system since it started.
Well, right, so it's years. Yeah, so let me two to three.
So what do you make of that? Yeah?
Yeah, No, Look, one is when I was mayor, one of the most I think monumental changes we made only school system in the country to do this. You couldn't get your high school diploma without showing us a letter of acceptance from a college, a community college, a branch of the Armed forces, or vocational school.
Was the only was it the only.
Only system in the country. Is called Learn Plan Succeed. Yeah, and we hired a ton of college and career counselors. I mean it was backed up with you know, we were the first city ever to do free community college. If you earned to be average, et cetera. To me, you want to be a plumber, you want to be an electrician? Great, you want to go be a marine Great. You want to be a paralegal nurse or a nurse. Great, you want to be a mechanical engineer great? Or you
want to d G mannais. You are not walking on graduation day without telling us where you're walking to m H and the Todd children got that direction at home. Not every child gets that direction. So set the expectation, give the support. And in this future world, as the Ford CEO said just a month ago, I got seven thousand jobs paying six figure with benefits, and I got
¶ Students are at a 30 year low in reading proficiency
nobody apply it. I don't know that has the skills, so I don't. And AAI won't change vocational carpentry, electrician. It won't eliminate it. I should say, not change it. May change it, but it won't eliminate it and the need for it. And that's true a nurse or specialization of nurse. That's true in other professions. But the fundamentals in third grade, you're gonna have to learn how to read, whether AI exists or not. You're gonna have to know
how to do math regardless. Now you may be right about coding, but to me, when you said it hasn't changed in one hundred years. The biggest reform we did in Chicago that I think is relevant is the high school education. When we made universal b average, you got
¶ Education is a highly motivating issue for voters
free community college. In Chicago, fifty percent of our kids graduated with college credit under their belt on graduation day. And third, ninety eight percent met the requirement of producing a letter from a college, a community college, a branch of the armed versus or vocational. And eighty percent of the jobs up tomorrow requires something post high school. And we haven't fixed the education system to meet that eighty percent benchmark. And that's you know, that's why I talked
¶ Vouchers don't help rural communities
about it. And then to me, this is the ultimate thing every parent's trying to figure out. Your parents articulated, AI other parents particulated. You know, they learned a lot during COVID about what was happening at their local school or not like it. No, And and since we're also junkies about politics, it was interesting twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, remember when they used to do the battery, which part of you trust more? Healthcare? Taxis national security debt? Right? Yeah?
New York Times bolt. And there was another I think was CNN pul They did that bat each of them did their battery. Education wasn't on it, and there didn't even rise, and yet you have a thirty year low in reading, and maybe you just may want to ask. And the guy they just won, a Democrat that just wanted a Texas special spend seventy thousand dollars on a district that's bigger than the congressional district. The beat somebody
¶ GOP has abandoned public ed, Dems abandoned accountability
ten to one ran on one issue. Education.
Well, this is an interesting let's mix it with the politics here theything mixes everything checks this Kansas is your blueprint? Right when brown Back messed with the education funding boom Right, there's now sixteen of the last twenty four years in Kansas have been have had been democratic governors? Yes, right, and it has been over this essentially education. Rob sand
is probably going to be the next guy. I might be over my skis a little bit okay, but I certainly would bet on him being the next governor anybody else right now, assuming he stays laser focused on education, because a whole bunch of eye ones are really ticked off. The voucherization idea right in rural America sounds great until
you find out, well, what school choice exists. Yes, and this is Texas too, So there's a this is a and I don't get the national Democrats don't seem to be fully engaged on this because they're like, well, education is a local issue, yeah, but it's a national issue that, well,
¶ Governors used to compete to be the "education governor"
it is just governed local.
Your last two presidents who got reelected, one head raised to the top, ran on it and reran and the other one ran on public school choice and teachers of excellence. So and you can't tell me the last two, meaning Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, what their education policy was except for open the bathroom door. Can't do it. And to me, that tells you why a twenty point advantage on an issue that touches everybody, we now have para pursue now. I happen to think our kids are suffering
from two things. Republicans have abandoned public education and Democrats have abandoned accountability. And our kids are falling through the crack. That's what's happening, and that's on us.
¶ Lotteries became the popular way to fund public education
I think it's a it's a very fair argument, and the the you know you. I would also argue that the reason for Democrats losing Latino voters because when you've ever you know, I used to there was it was a standard thing where your top three concerns among if you're among Latino voters, and it was always some combination. Education was always higher among Latino voters than it was among all voters. Right, Education particularly for this is true
of all first generation immigrant groups in this country. Right, Education is always right up there with the economy, and then sometimes over the economy.
All immigrant groups, whether they've crossed the Real, the Pacific, or the Atlantic or the Mississippi, all of them always put education top because they made that struggle for the
¶ Mississippi found a successful education model & it was copied
next generation. And that door of the school is that door into the middle class and every dream your parents had for you.
Right. And I think, just to put a period on this sentence, the only party even talking about education usually is the Republicans, not the Democrats.
Well, look, I mean this gets to uh, this will age me. I don't care. I grew up at a time when you had Governor Bill Clinton, Governor Hunt, Governor Writhy becomes Clinton secretary.
But it was also Governor Alexander who was.
Governor Winter, Governor Childs, Governor Miller. Now these were titans. They were in a competitive race to be the education governor had two things. I just told you before we got on what am I doing? And I was talking about going to the Linda Vane Johnson. If you go back and look at the stuff. While we know him, remember him for obviously the War on Poverty, the Great Society, But his what he wanted to be remembered as was the education government. That's what he wanted to be remembered for.
There's probably of one subject passed more individual bills in the education column than anything else.
Why are there Why did lotteries spread like wildfire from nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety six?
Education?
Right, everybody said I'm going to start at lottery and use it to fund education. Now, of course the problem is every state legislature said, great, now we don't need to fund education by education the lottery.
Well yeah, so look, but I think here's the thing.
And then you were gonna pivot.
This is also what I care about. Passion of mice. I happened to think is what the public cares about. I'm gonna, as I said, I went to Mississippi, laid out in an elementary what.
Did you learn about the Mississippi story? Because you know there's a lot of people who didn't think Mississippi's education plans would work. What why do you think it worked well?
Two things. One is I've been following the debates on other topics, but when Louisiana, Tennessee, and Alabama replicate it and see similar games, this was not a one trick pony. So this was clearly they had figured it out. And the truth is they didn't really figure out except for their return to the fundamentals. They rewired every teacher around the science of reading, phonics, train train trade, and they get constant trating it's not one and done right. They
¶ If schools focus on the fundamentals, scores go up
get a coach, the school gets a coach. The school coach coaches the principal coaches all the teachers on the sun.
And they give them the subject of teaching reading essentially. Okay.
Two, they have a minimum. I'm doing this by memory, but I think it's an hour and fifteen minute per day for every child. Second is as a child is going. If that individual child needs more support than the hour and fifteen minutes every day, they get a tutor. Now, one thing I will say is and to their credit, and I met with mister Barksdale, the guy that created and that'scaped the thunder this whole thing. I suppose structurally there was no other option. You couldn't kind of opt out.
This is what you were doing. To get in Mississippi money. You had to do this. So this was not like local control. They would no. And second is they're honest with themselves. They said, okay, we're doing really well, but we start to lose momentum in fourth and fifth grade. So they're now setting up reading clinics to try to figure out how to keep the third grade momentum going. There's also a one as element I left and everybody
some A lot of people forget. If you don't meet the standard after I think it's three tests, you don't get advance to fourth grade. Now they don't just do read and get done. They do training support for teachers, rewiring on phone X, keeping them pop to pop. You know,
¶ Trump's UAE corruption scandal the worst in history
of their game. The principle understands it. They get kind of trained down it. The kids get a guaranteed minimum time. If you need more, they will get you more support. And obviously if you fail, you don't go forward. But if you succeed and not only go forward, but then they have Now these reading clinics that they're going to try to figure out how to keep the momentum. And as I said, Louisiana, Tennessee, Alabama, there's a county in
Florida called Indian River County. All who have replicated all are seeing the same thing. So get back and do the fundamentals and your kids will meet the scores. And I did this in Chicago. I look at Mississippi's demographics and every smarty pants that every Ivy League school would tell you, not those kids, not that zip code, not that race, not that gender, not that income. They tell you one hundred excuses. And Mississippi said, retired of being
dead last from forty ninth to ninth. They went game on, Baby, It's.
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¶ Trump is supposed to work for the voters checkbook, not his own
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¶ Trump's pardons are almost exclusively for white collar crime
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¶ Congress has completely abdicated their responsibility
is and I want to talk about because you, I know you want to talk a little bit about what Trump said about nationalizing federalizing elections. And I wrote a whole substack on this phenomenon, and maybe this is more of a media issue, but also I think you as a politician have to figure out, you know, if you're trying to get people fired up about something, you have to find a way to get them interested in the topic. And here you have there's always what Trump says, and
then there's stuff Trump does. And we have a remarkable capacity to focus on what he says and not enough on what he does. And the Abu Dhabi story in the Wall Street Journal which I think you wrote, you know, is just you know, it's it's one of those things we're so numb to it it takes your breath away, unbelievable. This is bigger than Teapot Dome. And I think Teapot Dome is the worst scandal against the American taxpayer in history. Yes, and this is this dwarfs it. It's not even a
close call. Never mind, we don't even get to the fact that pardons are regularly sold. This is like a weekly thing. Every week there's a new round of pardons. It's like, oh, Roger Stone has a client, and yet.
You know, and the overalls has become eBay.
So why do you think you can get blaring hair on fire coverage on federalizing elections but essentially stealing from
¶ Founders were very worried about a corrupt executive
the American taxpayer and selling American foreign policy, which is what this was. And look, I think we want to be in business with UAE, you know, in a professional cap Okay, this is an important country, and so I'm not saying we shouldn't be in a straight up diplomatic and trade relation economic relationship country to country, but we shouldn't practice politics the way they practice politic well, and it's also a constitutional Last time you've.
Heard you've hit up pilot one is you're right, we should be engaging the UA for both strategic, commercial and other interests. His problem is we're engaging the UA for the Trump family commercial interests, not the Americans and the Wickaw family. Very clear, it's not Yeah, this is a second is you have And I think this has an impact on the president. As I wrote the other day
in their drone, they feel betrayed. He was supposed to work on the American people's checkbook and he's focused on the Trump family checkbook and they know it, and they feel betrayed. And we have not seen the wholesale uh corruption like this, as you say, go back to teapot Dome. But there's other elements. I've never seen something that is
so brazen. I happen to think there's a broken windows strategy here, which is they've permitted the smaller crimes, have kind of knocked down your antibodies, and it's created an
¶ Major international shakeups and DNI is at Georgia election office
environment for a bigger If you.
Notice who he pardons, the type of crime he always pardons.
White collars, always financial.
And every single one of them.
It's not a coincidence. Nope, No, there's a pattern besides the cash and carry business in the Oval office. But this is what happened. Now, it'd be nice if you two things. I will say, he's gonna do what he's gonna do, right. It'd be good if you had a other branch of government holding the administration accoldable, holding hearings, not just for the sake of holding hearings, because you have to shed light on this, and there is an element you now have. I think the deputy attorney not deputy.
I forgot Martin's title, but he is leaking a grand jury testimony and he quickly is getting out. But you know what, I also Roberts Supreme Court. Remember inaugirl day, Trump flok Sap goes thank you, just again, thank you right at him. He gave him again on a jail card when he says, there's no way you can hold the president accountable. So you can't hold them accountable. So therefore he's gonna steal the money. And the Supreme Court
under Roberts has to be also. That's why that's why I'm in the view seventy five up and out across all three branches of government, because these guys have gotten
¶ There are certain features of elections Trump can't screw with
really lazy.
Well, I agree with there on that, but I actually still blame the courts got put into a position to be getting involved in more activities that Congress should be doing. Right, I mean, if you think about it, I've actually you know, I think our problem is Congress, right, the ineffect, the fact that it doesn't work. Right, they don't know it's it's a big problem. Right. It doesn't want to be the accountability branch. It's not doing these things, but even
simpler stuff. Right, why do we Why are the courts involved in reproductive rights because Congress wouldn't deal with it? Why did the courts have to get involved with desegregation because the Congress wouldn't deal with it?
Right?
Our broken Congress has then made people have to go to the courts. And then, of course the more the courts have been active, then you create interest groups that are trying to politicize the courts when ultimately the core patient, the patient.
Zeros aren't as a reform member of Congress, yeah, here served elected four terms, served only three. Look, they have walked away from their responsibility full stuff. And because they're not on point. As a co equal branch of government, you have a caffeinated executive branch right, run three bottles of red Bull or cancer red Bull. And you have a Supreme Court that, in my view, you can you can give them. I'm not giving them a pass that
you cut. I think they they know they gave a This is exactly I don't mean to get historical here, but you go to the Federals papers. This is exactly why, uh what Hamilton and Madison were very concerned about, which
¶ Rahm is more worried about the post election environment
is a corrupt executive and there and the court says, whatever you do, you can't be held legally responsible. Now, I just tell you that was a get on. That was all this guy needs to get out of jail and that and he's going to take it all the way to the bank, and we're going to be left holding the bag of Americans and him and his kids are gonna he's in here to make money and his kids are going to make use of every day. And you get that Wall Street Journal story. I don't know
about you. I read it twice because I as an Emmanuel's never speechless. I was speechless. I could not believe. And let me ask you a question, how many people
¶ The institutions have failed, but the people will protect this country
in the elected position today, Well, we're dealing with all these subjects. Any of them said, we need a understanding of what's went on here. We're selling probably the most important national security chip that we scared could go to China. We're selling it. We still have the same concerns. Now I'm going to back up to you, and this gets to kind of another point. While I want to talk about nationals, that decision, et cetera, et cetera. This tells
you how much Congress and Washington. But Congress, I'll give you that and the impact with no Washington post on point Yeah, you have the head the Director of National Intelligence.
¶ Worried that Mike Johnson may screw with the seating of new congress
You have China g unbeknownst to anybody else, firing as head of the armed forces, and every intelligence agency across the globe is looking at our Director of National Intelligence is in Fulton, Georgia. Ways said, no, no, you laughed. We're about to go into the talks with Iran. I know what happens. You get these intel briefs on what you think, where are the divisions in the Iranian position, Who's for what, etc? Are D and I Director and
not Fulton, Georgia. You're about to host Russia, Ukraine in the United States, and one of the most important part of the negotiations, whereas europe our Director of National Intelligence Fulton, Georgia, looking at ballots tells you everything you need to know about this administration. You have three and I'm probably leaving five events off across the globe. There's sixteen plus intelligence agency, a feeding interr. She's in Fulton, Georgia calling the president's
cell phones so he can talk to the FBI agents. Okay,
¶ Mike Johnson doesn't have Mike Pence's courage
you want to know why America's got a problem. We got an administration with the wrong priorities and the American people know, which is why the republics are going to pay a price this November.
So it's interesting you put it that way because I am somebody who still thinks, look, the election system's going to happen. But I know I'm sure people come up to you because they come up to me when I give talks. Are you sure he's going to accept the mid terms? Are you sure he's going to not invoke the Insurrection Act? Are you sure? And it's like, look, with Trump, nothing's you know, there's no one hundred percent okay, And I and I accept that there are certain things
he can't screw with. And I think our election systems are so diffuse and so you know, you know, the lack of federalization is what makes is a feature not a bug. Right, So I'm I'm pretty confident that we're going to have a normal, small d democratic response to this administration. Am I not alarmist enough? Where are you on this? Because you know, being an alarmist in some ways is it could be good politics for the moment, you know, like you've got somebody, Look, Gavin Newsom's out
there saying this is what he wants to do. And you can't say Gavin's wrong, but I think he's made a bit of alarmist but I understand who he's talking to.
Let's say it, well, three things. One is, I do think it's weird that nobody watching him made the connection between the Director of National Intelligence is infulted and you have three massive international events.
Right, But you're you're accepting the premise that she's actually a player in the intelligence.
I'm accepting the premise that does the United States Senate confirmed her knowing full well every one of them that was she was perfect. Yes, look at mister Cassidy and his big conscious vote for Kennedy. Now he's getting his butt kicked lost his conscious and lost his election number two on the alarmist versus art. What keeps me up is the are going to do a lot fbi ice before the election. But it's, as you said, the diffusion because he's trying to consolidate it. We'll keep it somewhat,
have some antibodies and protection. I worry about the post election and seeding.
That's funny, that's what I bring up. Okay, so close environment. Yes, so people in about the power of the House on this.
Okay, so here is I said this here who was
¶ What issues should Democrats should prioritize to win elections
in the Mississippi town hall? Uh, well, we did up in the Water Valley, and I said, if somebody asked something kind of along the lines of what you asked, but you know, close enough, it's a cousin of what you asked. I said, Look, what I really worry about is from this perspective, I think he's going to do a lot before the election. I happen to think the thin blue line that's going to protect this country is the American people. This is court walked, Corporate America walked, media,
titans and owners walked. The American people will protect this country. And I have confidence in that he and he is not a look, the president of is says, I don't agree with me, but he knows that Democrats in twenty twenty five one thirteen out of thirteen state wide elections. He knows what's coming.
So he's going to do talking about it.
Yeah, he's gonna do anything. He's going to do everything he can, sorry, bother, everything he can before the election. I still believe not after. The Constitution is very clear
¶ 2026 will be a wave election, presents chance to win local/state races
about the role of the speaker in organizing the House. The former speaker has a role before you get to the new Congress to let the new speaker. And I believe if you ask me, one part of my brain says, I'm kind of at forty to sixty on the paranoia after the election. I'm seven d thirty eighty twenty because January.
Sixth, Yeah, in this case it's January third, right, Yes, yeah, that's what I worry about. Well, it's funny you say that, and I'm the additional detail I include when I and I say when I'm like, look, I'm not worried about November. If it's really close, like I also think you can it's eight seats or less, correct, it's a blowout. I
don't think Mike Johnson can do anything. But if we're talking like what we just had in twenty two and in twenty you know, we're sitting here in a three to five seat swing.
Yeah. Ready, I want to do the phone call for you. Yeah, you can find me.
The votes, you can find me or you don't have to see certain people.
Yeah, this is and Johnson. No, I'm not exactly what I say is a profound courage. You're gonna need a Mike Pence courage. And I'm not sure Speaker Johnson has that. I think it's pretty Yeah, yeah, I don't. And you
¶ Tax refunds won't be the electoral boon Republicans think they will
know I did it some way.
I mean, I am one of those who sort of I will respect how he got there. He's only there thanks to the one person, Donald Trump, Right, So he's going to do his bidding because his political career is over if he doesn't. And that's the that's the scary part of it.
So you asked me, I get why. No, I don't I understand why Governor k Newsom would say what he said. Yeah, And I'm not like I think it's a but in the you know the joke, you know the joke, John Even paranoid people have enemies. So in the business of having a paranoia. Mine is on January third, not on
¶ There's no upside to being a long-term planner in American politics
November six. Yeah, I think that's the date. Yeah.
What do you think so far of this of the Democratic team trying to head up the midterms? What if you like so far? And what do you think needs improvement?
Look, I I well, I kind of let me take a step back and tell you how I kind of view this. I see twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight as a compendium elections.
Potentially mirror images of six and eight in your head.
Yes, so two things that are underappreciated and I don't see out in the bloodstream. We win in six thirty seats, but we use seven to set up eight in the main same way that George Mitchell going back to ninety one and the government budget forces George Bush to sign the tax increase, break his pledge and sets up Bill Clinton in ninety two.
Yep.
Oh, so two things that I think are really really important. I happen to think the Democrats have good candidates out there. They have and quality candidates. They've done a good job recruit where I'm I think there's an oh, there's a
¶ What states should Dems target outside the 7 battlegrounds?
twenty twenty seven. Well, let me back up in twenty twenty six. I still think they need a six and twenty twenty six because eighty percent of this is a referendum on the Republicans. But you got to put a little lipstick here. We're gonna do a minimum wage, we're gonna do rate payers bill rights, we're gonna do ethics reform, a change election. You know that has a monoicam. Here's why we're asking you not just to vote against them again.
Eighty percent is a vote against them, as you can see in all the elections, but twenty percent were safe hands. Twenty twenty seven is very important to setting up twenty twenty eight. In that period, also, we've got three presidentials that seven states, six hundred thousand voters, seven hundred thousand
¶ Never Trump Republicans finding more affinity with Democratic party
voters have decided who's president. There should not be an empty line from school board to governor in Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvan in Michigan, Wisconsin. No line should not have a surfer and a surfboard on it. Because I think this is going to be a wave election like ninety four six, twenty ten, and twenty eighteen, and if I'm right, getting into Arizona, throughout the state, that state rep.
That school board, that county commissioner, that supervisor, all the way up true in Nevada, all the way up true in Georgia, all the way up from the bottom up. You're organizing in twenty twenty six for twenty twenty eight, and you're deep, digging deep. Don't show up in twenty twenty eight in Georgia two months out and say, well,
¶ Democrats need to welcome former Republicans & independents
we got beat at this game. Well, the game started in twenty twenty six. Its started much earlier. But you get the point. So that's the two things. And I still think I don't mean to leave the Senate out. And but you look at this. I you know there's a fundamental and I happen to think.
I think you have to. You have a way, you have if the Senate is winnable, and if you don't.
Yeah, I do think this. This is all the makings of a wave election. You can see it in everything that we're looking at electorally. And B I think you wrote to this. And I'm a big believer the table is set by mid spring, not just by cannedy, but by issue. And to me, you're gonna buy. I'm saying May fifteenth. But in that zone, we're going to know more about what's going to happen in May, in November, in May than you will in September.
This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you by American Financing. Let's be honest, the math just isn't adding up lately. Between the grocery store and those skyrocketing insurance premiums, even the steady job, more families are being
¶ Unaffiliated voters are where you get your electoral majority
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¶ Progressive vs. Moderate viability for Democrats
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So again, that's ethos dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary and the rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is something you should really think about it, especially if you've got a growing family. The Republicans the one thing they're holding their hat on, right, they're hanging their hat on, is that tax season and tax refund season is going to make a whole bunch
of people happy. And I actually think it's going to piss them off when they find out all this extra money is gone because it went to groceries, the electric bill and healthcare.
No, they do not that basically, Well, I believe in the power of prayer. That's a lot of prayer.
Yeah, hey, let me you know, because this is always the tyranny of leading a political party is that.
You're stupid until election day.
Well, there's that, but there's no upside in being the long term planner, right, It's like you're right, like, hey, we've got a plan for twenty thirty two, and yet you're like, yeah, but if you don't win in twenty twenty eight, you're going to get fired, right.
You know.
It's like the general manager that goes ahead and trades early for your first round draft picks because he knowes
¶ Democratic electorate is always looking for someone new
if he doesn't win, now he's getting fired. He's not going to be making that draft pick. Twenty thirty two is a sobering moment for the Democratic Party in presidential elections. Given what looks like is going to be a dramatic shift from the north to the south, with a dramatic shift from the coast Electoral college electoral vote standpoint.
Yeah, yeah, him.
So I hear your playing about the seven states. You're like, hey, and you know, every every single election should be competitive, and you know you don't leave any stone unturned. What are the next three states that at a minimum right now you throw into the bucket, because look, you've got to start thinking about you know, I mean when you look at the path to fifty one Senate seats for Democrats, they have to sweep the battlegrounds just to get to fifty two or fifty three, not and not screw up
Michigan in the primary. That's my point, right, And that's just a So here's one. Are the like the next states that if you could get rewarded for investing in
¶ The future will be on the ballot in 2028
the long term, that you'd be investing in right now?
Well, there's two states that come quickly to mind, because I think something's underappreciated that fascinating to me, not as fascinating as energy production or AI, but fascinating from a pure political Two former elected Republicans in Florida and in Georgia are running in the Democratic primary for governor.
It is nice.
Yeah, And I say that's interesting because both, if you listen to them, have made a decision that the Republican Party is they can't recognize it, and they find more affinity in the Democratic parties.
And I don't know, let's pause there. David Jolly and Jeff Duncan are the two guys you're.
Referring to, butenant governor and a former congress right.
Yeah, these weren't liberal Republicans when they were elected. They were very much Chamber of John became Republicans. Yes, Mitt Romney probably more Mett Romney than even John McCain.
Yeah, totally agree. They would probably say that, okay, and I find as a socio political phenomenon. They looked around and maybe both of them said, oh, I can't win in the Republican Party. I don't think it was that pragmatic. I actually think they looked and they said, I'm not
a Republican anymore. This is not my party. In the same way, same region, a lot of bolt evils, right blue dogs, you know, basically woke up one morning, so the Democratic Party's not my home anymore and became Republicans. Now their traffic is flowing the other way. Now, paus, will the party welcome what they get out of here? Yeah, and here's here's the.
Thing that we're going to find out, aren't we.
Well, we're going to find out two things that's very interesting. One is we always say we want to be a big ten party. We're going to see you who in the party thinks set So there's going to be that. And two is I don't think the party, my party is fully appreciated that almost fifty percent of the country
¶ Biden promised to unite the country & only united his party. It's why he failed
is not in a party. The fastest growing party is unaffiliated.
Independent voters under thirty five.
And then second, contrary to popular view that somehow, if you use a little smelling salts, the New Deal coalition will just pop up out of nowhere again that in fact, what Trump showed you is coalitions are forming and shaping in real time, and you've got to make a decision. In my view, that is what I argued in the journal piece. The unaffiliated voters, which are now forty five
percent and growing, that's your majority. Now you can decide to go get that majority and not make it electorally transactional but make it transformational, or you can decide not to. And I think these guys moving over is a window both to the unaffiliated and soft Republicans that we can be something bigger. And so I keep my eye Georgia, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. That's my that was my region.
There's your extra state that you would throw in, and so you'd throw forth.
Three states to keep your eye on. Are those three states for the long for the twenty thirty two and beyond.
There's this perception that to be a strong Democrat you
¶ Mandatory national service could help reunite the country
have to be a progressive, that you can't be from the center left, you can't be you know, And I think, look, I think history shows that Bill Clinton showed you could be considered a strong partisan and at the same time governed more from the center than from the base. But that was not appreciated in real time, no, I think, and it arguably took it. I don't know if the
Democratic Party appreciates that even today. So in fact, I just read an interesting little memo that somebody wants to circulate and we're asking me to read it, just sort of making the case that hey, this milk toast centrism is not the answer.
Yeah, what do you say, Well, you had a big primary New Jersey for governor six Hans. Yeah, the mayor Newark, very progressive, mayor Jersey, very progressive, president of the Teachers Union, largest union of state. Two members of Congress. Two members of Congress were on the moderate to conservative wing of the party. Their combined vote was forty nine point seven and the one that topped out of the five was
the most conservative of the five. You had an eleven candidates for Jerry Connolly c Congressional One out of eleven got fifty nine percent, and he was the most moderate conservative whatever you want to use of the eleven and one's with not thirty but fifty nine percent. You and I are sitting here today. Will be very interesting. We won't know the answer. Thursday. There's a primary in New Jersey for Mikey Michaels, Mikey Cheryl's congressional seat. That is
a pretty wide spectrum. Lieutenant governor, former member of Congress, a supervisor Kenny and a person who found themselves is kind of like AOC. So we'll see. I don't think I think there's a bigger moderate wing of the party, and there's a bigger pragmatic wing. Now, one thing that we know from presidential history Clinton, John Carey, Joe Biden that ultimately, when the parties walk backs against the wall,
they go pragmatic, not ideological. Right winning will be more important than any particular thing that's right.
Well, that's been my I've made two points about like people always ask me, you knows who's the front runner, and I always say I flipped the script, and I always say, you know, at this point in time, nobody was talking about Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety, at this point.
In time, No, no, you were talking No, no, no, worse than that. At this point in time, mario'comell, Bill Bradley. Yeah, Bill Clinton was at two percent.
And it was right. He wasn't even he wasn't even really being he wasn't high enough to even be talked about as a dark horse.
Yes.
By the way, Jimmy Carter, same thing. I'll give you another one that I like to remind people of just recently, if I told you at this point in time in the twenty twenty cycle, which would be February of twenty eighteen, Hey, rom you know who's going to be one of the finalists for the Democratic nomination for president. It's going to be the mayor of South Bend. You know, the guy
¶ Entire tax code is built around wealth preservation, not creating wealth
that just and you would say, you mean the guy that lost DNC chair and I'll be like, yeah, that guy. So it tells you the Democratic Party always is looking for what I always say is two things new and somebody who you know, isn't that who hasn't been sort of in their face for the.
Last five Well, let me say this. The worst place to be in the Democratic Party is front runner three years out. Oh I know.
I joke about that with Gavin You're like, okay, yeah, you win the first year and ask Kellry Clayton what that's like. And she was the front runner O five exactly. You know, al Gore was the front runner and oh one.
Yeah. But I do think one thing that's very clear, and I say this is look as I value make my view. Yeah, twenty twenty eight and for the country and for the party will be the first primary election and general election in which the future will be on the ballot.
You know, we've done that. You could argue that it's funny we do this every twenty years. It's funny how it's worked out that way. Sixty eight wasn't open. Eighty eight wasn't open. Eight wasn't open, twenty eight is an open. It's just interesting how it's just fallen that way.
Yeah, and I think we've had making America great again, build back better. You know, while they're different in many many policyways, spiritually they emanate that they look through the rear view mirror with this hazy nostalgic sense rather than look to the future and say here's what we're going to do right. You know, it's of a product at Bill Clinton's don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Or building a bridge to the twenty first century. It's one of my favorite Like with I made the joke you tell me fill in the gaps here. But I believe Bill Clinton hadn't figured out what his accepted speech theme was going to be. Bob Dole gave his Yeah, and he's like, huh. When he wanted to build a bridge to the fifties or whatever it was, it was a bridge to the past.
Very nostalgic. It was a nostalgic speech.
And literally, aha, I mean it was sort of that
¶ People are tired by the ultra rich playing by their own set of rules
suddenly gave it gave Clinton an idea, right.
You know, it allowed him not only to be future, but also continue to be changed while you were running as the incumbent.
Right, how did we end up? You know, it's funny the rules of politics that I grew up with. Right, you know, whether it was well the candidates to talk about the future when candidates that talk about the past lose. Yet we had three straight presidents, right, Trump twice and Biden once who won by talking about the past.
Yeah, I mean each election is each election is slightly different. But may take a look at Joe Biden's twenty twenty This is my take. His the past wasn't so much the factory or this. It was a time in which it was more comedy than conflict. Yeah, if you asked me where he broke faith with the public, wasn't Yes, he made an implied to pledge. She never disabused the public.
¶ WaPo is an institution, and Bezos is gutting it against public interest
I'm not running again at twenty twenty four, then broke it. But I think the bigger pledge he broke with the public my observation, and I still think he'll man. He's a friend and I think he I have a different view over the presidency. But his bigger break was he said I'm going to bring more comedy and he ended up trying to unite the party, not the country. And
I think that's where he gets off the rails. I think if you ask me why the party, why the country wanted some of this kind of nostalgic was and this is something I've been working through. When you look, we've had our political difference, as partisanship is not due new to American politics. Fighting hard is not new to America. But there was a kind of a boundary sense.
We were exhausted, we did want to reset.
Yeah, yeah, and this is a U and I you know, look, you got three more years of Donald Trump. So the question is, and I think this will be is what I'm betting on, is the country's going to look at this and say, Okay, the puck will be not to have a democratic version of Donald Trump. The puck is going to be how do we Yeah, And I think that's actually what's you know, one of the things I've talked about is the party should be post Minneapolis. I
know this will come. Yes, there's an ice component, there's an immigration component. There's actually I think all the people in Minneapolis showed their true citizenship. There is working not to democracy, but also I have an obligation to my neighbor. I have an obligation to the person down the road. And I believe the answer to the future is national service, reigniting that sense of bonds. Not your diversity, not your differences,
but your commonality. And I think the country's doesn't desperate form, which is why going back to five. But as recently as last year, for the paper The Washington Post wrote about the need for national service. I am the last six months of high school should be mandatory. Six months clean a river, work alongside kids you never met, tutor, do a series of things because guess what, Being an American is a gift. Yeah, and you need to reach I treat that gift with care.
It's the single best idea Clinton had in the nineties, and I'm sorry it never I believe the Right killed it because they thought it was gonna.
Well, he did the Americ Corps. Two things.
¶ How welcome will a Jewish candidate be in a Democratic primary?
He got AmeriCorps, but the right.
I'll give you a great anecdote, so he gets Americrps, doesn't get as big as he wants, compromises, et cetera. John McCain and Lindsey Graham come to Chicago in the Obama transition. One of the things that and we have a meeting there President elect Obama, Senator McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham, and uh and myself. There's a commitment that is, we're dealing with the auto industry and we're dealing with the financial you know, we will do a rewrite of both
America or National Service and Peace Corps. And if you get past Lily Ledbetter that showse helf, the recovery, the budget team they and obviously Kennedy's ill. So there's an interest. There's a bigger moment to fulfill the pledge that the president of like Obama, and they chok on it, and that becomes in the spring of nine, the President signs into along with pass and a significant expansion of both AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps National Service legislation. But if
you go back to Clinton, it was cut down. You know, those were the days it was coming out of seriously things. But he's still got amer Corps done. Yeah, not as big as he wanted.
I got two more questions, he said, two more topics for you than I a chatting here.
¶ Separating the Jewish people/religion from Bibi's government
Yeah one is and sniffling, but I got a head, no, no, no.
I get it. I get it. Yeah, one is are we at a I think we're at a moment. We had the robber barons one hundred years ago, we have the tech titans of today. I think the anger at rich people I am, I am, I joke all the time. The pitchforks are being sharpened, and there are pitchforks in both parties right for different reasons, and they're coming.
Yeah.
What does this look like in a in in an A Ram administration? What do you what is true? And do we need a trust busting moment? And can you run against billionaires without coming across is against.
You know, making money? Well, here's the thing. I actually think one of the big problems facing the country is that our entire tax code is is now focused on wealth preservation, not wealth creation. When you really rip, take Mitt Rombie and he writes this up ed tax me more. But when you take each of the pieces and components that he talks about the whole, I don't mean to get technical, step up. It's about preserving wealth and it's
not about creating wealth. It's not passing out to other generations. You never passed Bay taxes. This is insane. Now he does it from a fiscal perspective. I would take it from an investment perspective into future generations. And I'm based on my friendship with former Sena Ronnie Romney Mitt. I don't think you would disagree with a number of things that'd be more consensus on what the things you should
Festine put that aside. Look like that when I said, first person to say in either party sixteen and younger, no more social media apps. Protect the kids. And I've
¶ Bibi's governance has made Israel more vulnerable and isolated
never met a parent in all my walkings around the country. My kid needs more time on the screen. I've never met that parent.
Okay exactly.
They feel that these guys have taken their kids away from them and raising them on an algorithm that's addictive, and there's as much anger at that as much as nobody has told these people bosto, take your hands off
my kids. So there's a wealth piece, there's a power piece, and they feel like the government's role and we've been the government has been a woe is to basically equal this out when it gets out as kilter the era you're talking about, whether that's the railroad barons, the conglomerate barons, or going into as Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt. The scales are tempted, where heads eye win and tails you lose.
Well, I thought, I thought Bernie Sanders made an interesting point the other day about the interest in the Epstein files. That look, the point he made fits his long term messaging.
¶ Did we export our politics to Israel or are we emulating them?
So you know, God bless Bernie. It's always about the billionaires and the millionaires. But I do think he made this observation, which he says, the interest in the Epstein files beyond the conspiracy theorist, is because people are tired of these rich guys play their own set of rules. Yes, and I think he's right.
No, No, there's no doubt. I mean, look, that was part of you know, my view when I advocated for Old Testament justice to the bankers. Right, basically, here you are, your home is everything to you. You get liar loans, you lose your home. And these rich punks are talking about their bonuses and not one of them ever paid a thing of accountability legally, professionally, and they walk around like it was you know, that was the financial trade.
Do you see what's happening? These crypto guys basically said, well, screw the Democrats, We're just going to go buy off the Republicans and they have.
Want to just be clear, every decision the Court's ever made on politics, whether it's money, silver Voting Rights Act,
¶ If Democrats fail to win the midterms... then what?
et cetera, they've made the democracy harder and concentrated around wealth Supreme Court. Every one of their decisions around politics is has made this system worse.
What do you make of Jeff bay Us and what he's doing?
What do you mean at Washington Post? Yeah? I think look for a guy that's I mean not my money, but in the last year your net worth has increased, I mean billions zeros that people will never see. The Washington Post is not a profit. It's a institution that serves the public good. You're lucky to be the steward of it. There's not charity from you. This is a contribution to our democracy.
And I think he's like twenty thirteen, Jeff Bezos seemed to believe that. Look then he bought it.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know whether he did it a proper analysis to realize newspapers breaking news live at ten don't make money out right, Okay, so your job here is not to lose money. But don't kidd me. You knew what you were doing when you got in. It's actually a public it's almost like an endowment. It's a public interest. So I'm not for it. And the notion that it's not like you're struggling. You don't know anything about the snack program from food benefits, et cetera.
The idea that given that you have just made off the stock market billions, and I'm not saying that losing one hundred million is easy, but it doesn't change. There's not one vacation, one outfit, or one holiday that you have to cancel because of the washing Post. Nothing in your standard of living has changed.
And by the way, I would argue that, hey, you can figure out how to lose less even make a couple of bucks if you have better, more innovative leadership, and he had terrible leadership being Jewish and being a Democrat. You know, one of the things I've said is, look, before Donald Trump came down the escalator, I never felt as if my Jewish identity would come first as far
as how people judged my work. After he came down that escalator, that suddenly was interesting to me, how that it was the first time I'd ever experienced any sort of anti semitism, and I joke that when I hear the word populism, now it doesn't matter if I hear it on the left or the right. I know the next words out of their mouth is going to be something attacking Jews. How welcoming do you think a Jewish candidate for president? How welcome do you think a Jewish
candidate for president is going to be? In a Democratic primer?
Well one is, don't worry about my faith. Worry about the faith America people of America have in America. That's what's hurting. I'm good with my faith. My Rabi thinks I could do better. I say that tongue in cheap is here, and do I live by the Jewish moral code as best as I can, as best of the teaching of the Jews, and it's the work of progress. My faith is not Your concern is the fact that the whole generation of Americans have lost faith in America.
I think America's lost faith in them. That's what we should be worried about. Second, since you like politics and love politics, I got elected in the congressional district that Dan ross and Kowski, Roman Pucinski, Franken Nunzio, Rob Bgoyrevitch, Mike Flanagan and Alllong comes from Israel, Emanuel.
Yeah, yeah, not a single bunch of Catholics.
Huh yeah, European Catholics, Okay, Right in Chicago after a long run of Irish Catholics and other type of ethnic helmy city, that's only two to three percent the city that my grandfather came to when he was fifteen, one hundred years earlier. His grandson gets elected. So I've seen the other side of this now that is separate a faith issue from Israel, which is a different diferent issue.
Well, it's completely conflated.
You know.
My frustration is, you know, it can be pro Israel and critical of Bibi. Can't you accept that.
Chuck, there's one person in the Democratic Party but bb Netan now who in two thousand and nine, because of his difference on housing in the West Bank, called a self hating Jew and you're looking at Yeah, I know.
He writes it in his book, You're an Axel Rod. Right then he say David's Rod and Ram a bunch of self hating Jews.
Yeah that yeah, Ram Israel Emanuel self hating Jew maybe, And I didn't need a war to realize this guy was wrong, that he was leading Israel into the wrong place. He's not a real scientist when it comes to the tradition of what it believes to be a nation of nations. That's what Bengorian says. He's walked away from the vision of what it is. He has been turned his back on the spirit of Zionism. And to me, my faith
is me and my God and my Rabbi. It's the faith people have in America that we should be focused on as it relates to Israel. Before everybody else said, oh my god, look what this guy's doing twenty years ago, I told him, and I didn't say it behind his back. I said it to his face in the Oval office.
Right because the assumption was you might have more credibility with him right now.
Let me also say, Obama had to separate us. That's how I got and I said, what you're doing on housing in the West Bank is going to destroy and isolate Israel as Peru.
Well enough, here we are, and.
Chuck, Israel's never been more strategically secure and more politically internationally isolated. Welcome to Beebie's world, mister Sparta. That's what he wanted and that's what he's getting, but the Israeli public will not support it. And what he's done in all the regions in the last two years has made Israel more vulnerable than it was before.
How much of a litmus test do you think this should be and will be for Democrats?
You can't have a war like this, etc. That it should be debated and should be. A president is going to do something with China that's going to actually benefit him and endanger America as should be sending chips to UAE so your family can make money. All of this should be on the table, because if you can't handle the national street, you can't handle that job.
How much of Israel's politics I joke about this is Israel. Israel's politics is as polarized as ours is. Right, here's they have an unpopular person who keeps becoming their leader. This is what right? Are is Israel our past or our future? Did we export polarization at are we starting to emulate that this is this?
This is like a whole nother show. But I will say, no, you have a it's really it's not our future. And I meant what I said earlier. I think the Supreme Court, not the lower courts. Supreme Courts under Roberts has failed. I think the Republicans in Congress have failed. I think the corporate titans in their silence when they know under their breath it has failed. The thin blue line that
will protect this country are the American people. And it's why Donald Trump is going to do everything between now an election day to make sure they're not hurt, because they will actually return the country to its proper balance.
So you're putting on the you're putting on whether Israel's are past or our future?
Right on punters, Damn right, that's a because I can't give that answer without it being like twenty more questions.
No, it's a it's a fair point. Yeah, if Democrats fail to win the mid terms, what is that? You know? How does that take your book? Or you just don't see it.
There's one pat when you have one party controlled the microphone and the gabble, there's a law of physics, massive turnout, but the party out of power. Every election, all thirty of them plus have shown that two independence break two to one for the party out of power. Every election has shown that three low turnout by the incumbent party voters. Every election has shown that this is set up. I still hold by what I said, so I haven't taked
my position. In twenty minutes. We are going to know the future by May fifteenth.
I think you're right from Emmanue, it's always a pleasure. Thanks always make me think too.
We'll come back. We'll come back. On America mirror images of each other.
Well, there's a whole documentary to do on that.
Now. It's it's uh and I do think one last thing I'll say, and then I gotta you gotta get get better. But yeah, it's a headquarter. Our job is to restore the faith of the American people in America. My faith is good. I have to work on it like everybody else has to do on there. It's restored if you run for the big higher office. It's restoring that faith. That is the most important task out of us.
You know. That's that's a that's a good pivot that makes because you're right, a lot of people have los are losing faith in the idea of America. And it's not just us. A lot of our allies feel that way.
Yes, all right, brother as always seem mm hmmmmm.