¶ Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey joins the Chuck ToddCast
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¶ Structure of Minneapolis law enforcement & the mayor's powers
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¶ What is the line between city & state, and federal vs. state/city authority?
Well.
Joining me now is the mayor of Minneapolis. It's Jacob cried mister Maher. I appreciate you taking a few minutes with me.
Thanks so much for having me.
So, I mean, just we get a few you know. One of the things that why I appreciate the longer form is that we can put some context, so just in a quick summary, because a lot of people don't know what is the what powers individual mayors have. Right in some cities it's a strong mayor. Some cities, it's a weak mayor. Some cities it's up to the mayor who the police chief is. Others it is not. So give me the quick structure on law enforcement in your
authority over law enforcement. How much it's you, how much
¶ Minneapolis officials don't coordinate with feds on immigration
it's the city council.
In twenty twenty two, we began officially shifting our structure of government to what is known as a strong mayor system. I just call it a regular mayor system. It's sure Innneapolis and St. Paul and Duluth in New York City. Chicago is a strong mayor's system where the executive runs the day to day operations and the council is like the congress. They as laws or.
More of a legislature, also participating in the executive functions.
That's exactly right. So the police, for instance, report up through the commissioner.
Ultimately, so you appoint the police commissioner or does the city council have a saying that.
I appoint the Commissioner of Safety and the police of chief the chief of police. Our council then confirms the appointment.
Gotcha? So I say this because when it comes to okay, so let's take the so called phrasing of sanctuary city, right,
¶ Police officers should keep community safe, not target immigrants
And I know you. At first it was an executive order. Now it's been codified in the city law, and I guess what is the line between city and state and then what is the line between city and federal in this sanctuary law.
Well, you're asking all the right questions. So we have had what is called a separation ordinance in place well before my time, right, with that order on some twenty plus years, right, it's been quite simple, and it's virtually been the same throughout that entire time period. The Council lamented it a little bit recently, but it's virtually the same thing. And the basis of it is this is that our police officers, our officials at the City of Minneapolis,
do not coordinate with any federal agency around immigration enforcement work. So, in other words, we will not work with ICE or any other federal agency that has been deputized around immigration enforcement work. We do work with them around general safety,
¶ Would you release a proven criminal into ICE custody?
crime prevention, driving down homicides, that kind of stuff. And we also won't ask people as to their documentation status. And so when we haven't asked somebody their documentation status, we haven't gathered any information, And because we haven't gathered any information, when Donald Trump or anybody else asks us for all of our information, our answer is quite simple, which is we don't have it right.
What is the line of when you think somebody's immigration status matters when you have a interaction with a resident of your city.
For purposes of safety, It doesn't for purposes of calling nine to one one, It doesn't. You know, I want our police officers spending their limited and valuable time keeping people safe, driving down murders, arresting carjackers, doing all the basic stuff that any police officer would need to do on a daily basis. I don't want them spending a single second hunting down some father who just dropped his kids off at daycares about to go work a twelve
hour shift, who happens to be from Ecuador. Like that guy makes our city a better place. And so, as far as you know, what is the line. Look, I don't know if you committed a murder or you shot a gun. I don't care where you're from. I don't care who your parents were. You know there are consequences for that, But I don't get the sense of spending limited resource is on Immigration.
¶ Escalation with ICE & DHS went from 0-100 in Minneapolis
If ICE comes to the city of Minneapolis and says, we believe you have a criminal in custody, will you release that criminal to us if they have proof that this individual is a criminal? What is the policy of the police force at that point.
So there's parts where we are involved and there's parts where we are not arresting that criminal. We are involved, and we will work with federal agencies to arrest that criminal. Now, remember the whole concept of deportation is on the civil side. But we will work with federal agencies to get a guy that has done bad dates, murders, carjackings, whatever it
¶ OMB sent a letter threatening to cut all fed funds over DEI
might be. We at the city, however, don't control the jail. So the whole concept of.
The interest that is that is the Canneban County.
Now he runs the jail. That is the jail. And then the state, who has provided quite a bit of information recently about how they actually do work with immigration and ICE to provide, you know, to you know, not let murderers back on the street. That's through the state.
Like any situation, I assume you tried diplomacy first, meaning you know, you knew a new administration was coming in and all this stuff. What were those conversations like before this escalated to what it has become today, walk me through your interactions you had with DHS or with ICE, or with any part of the federal government before it got to where what you're having to deal with in the moment.
With this administration, it was a pretty quick zero to
¶ DHS seems intent on political retribution, not safety or immigration
one hundred, not as far as this operation goes, but as the general mentality of what they were doing. And look, you always expect different ideologies and value use with a new administration, especially a new administration that is of a different party, but this is something entirely different. Even from the first Trump administration. We did not see this kind of conduct to this degree with the first Trump administration.
And I think it was probably twenty or thirty days or something like that, maybe even less after Trump was sworn into this term. I got a letter on my desk from I believe the Office of Management and Budget. They quite literally said that all grants that were provided to the City of Minneapolis totally somewhere in the range
of seventy million dollars would be cut off. And the basic lever that they were trying to pull was, you will lose this money if you don't get rid of all diversity work and stop the separation.
Which I want to put up, which federal governments have tried to do with cities and states for decades. Right is always the first threat is usually financial.
Right it is. And there's a ton of legal dictum on this particular issue of how much can you know the federal government influence or coerce cities based on some alternate policy that has nothing to do with that right and so, But they've taken a pretty extreme line on how they're doing it.
So you now, this wasn't a case of I mean, have you had a meeting with Christino and said, hey,
¶ There was a real issue with fraud, & racist attacks on Somalis followed
what are you trying to truly accomplish here that's in the interest of public safety. We'd like to help. Have you. Have you been able to have that conversation with the Secretary of d J.
I have not had that conversation because the way they're framing this up, sadly, is not about safety. I don't even think it's about immigration. I think this is political retribution.
I think you feel like it's all about George Floyd.
I don't know George Floyd. I think it's about Tim Walls. It's it's you know, the Vice presidential candidate ran against Donald Trump, and I think there's a I think perhaps Donald Trump is unhappy that for three elections in a row,
¶ Somalis in Minneapolis came legally as refugees, most are citizens
Minnesota did not support his candidacy. I believe that he's trying to make a point here.
And well, when you look at the data, it's not like it's not as if Minneapolis stands out compared to Chicago, Denver, New York. We could go through the cities here. So it does feel as if you're you, I think you have said this that you feel as if you're a petri dish political petritish right now.
You know, it feels a little bit as if there were multiple things that were occurring in rapid succession that don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, you know what I mean. It almost feels like you remember like post nine to eleven. I remember, you know, you
¶ Fraud issue had nothing to do with illegal immigrants
reporting on that, you know, at nine to eleven, and then you had going after the Taliban. Then it was looking at Afghanistan. Suddenly we're in Iraq again, and so it was these things that, like if you weren't paying a lot of attention, were seemingly linked, but they weren't at all, And so we had an issue in our state around fraud, and look, it's real, it is a real issue. And then there were these racist attacks on entire communities, most notably are Somali community, based on that fraud.
And then from there it was let's I believe and this is not based on personal information. I speculate that somebody from relatively high up in the Trump administration said, go to Minneapolis, go to Port a bunch of Somalis, and whoever gave that directive didn't get the necessary pushback, and then suddenly you got a bunch of ICE agents. There are in many apple Is trying to deport Somalis,
only to find out they're from here. They're American citizens, they got here on a plane, they're here legally.
When we're the first Somalian settled settlements, it was in the mid to late nineties.
Correct, Yeah, I would say, men, we were.
¶ Is ICE responsible for longer 911 wait times?
Accepting refugees from a war torn country. This was a country. So this is what America has done for decades. That's right, that's refugees from a war torn country. Yeah, they've been here longer than I've been here. They're very Minneapolis and at this point, you know, multiple generations they have been.
And so it's it's it's not like there's a location where you can go to get a bunch of undocumented Somalis. Those locations don't exist because again, for the most part, they're citizens.
So basically you have this fraud issue that really has
¶ Minneapolis is very low on police officers per capita
nothing to do with undocumented.
Immigrants, right, right, it's it's a completely separate issue.
And you know, I mean the irony is whatever fraud was committed was likely committed by American citizens.
Correct A likely? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I don't breakdown, but yes, you know, and when somebody commits fraud, you investigate, you prosecute, you charge, you get a conviction, and yeah, you put the person in jail as an individual. You
¶ There's a massive imbalance between police officers & ICE agents
don't hold an entire community accountable. You hold the person accountable as an individual. It's just a very basic American value, in law enforcement value, and it's shocking and concerning that we're getting so far straight from that.
Well I'm old enough to remember when part of the anti woke mindset was to not was to not try to attack an entire group of people for one person, right, I thought that was one of the complaints. Yeah, I mean that was coming from the right. But day here we are. Let me ask you about dealing with the
¶ What are the police supposed to do if citizens are harassed by ICE?
safety of your community. Nine to one one response times have gotten worse in the last few months. Do you believe that's directly the result of the chaos that you believe is creating in your city.
I'm certain that's part of it. With anything law enforcement related, there's always more than one causal factor. But look, we got six hundred cops in the city. We have fewer officers per capita than virtually any major city in the country.
Are you short of cops? I mean and an ideal world, do you wish you had more? Yes? Yeah, I mean I've yet to meet a mayor that is not frustrated by this. I'm pretty friendly with maryel Bowser, mayor of DC, and she's literally, I swear almost wearing a sign, you know, call please apply.
You know, I wear the same sign, and I would argue, I would argue we need them even more. Just on a per capita basis, we are very low. We hemorrhaged officers following twenty and we are at the point where we're netting positive. More and more officers are coming on, but we don't have enough. Now, juxtapose that six hundred number versus the three or four thousand or whatever it is. ICE agents and border control is a massive imbalance here,
¶ Police are forced into a difficult & tenuous situation dealing with ICE
and our police officers have got to do the day to day work of being a cop. And you know, on top of that, we've got all of these calls coming in, all of these you know, ICE instigated events that are taking place that requires some form of our police officers to do even more work on top.
So what happened? So if somebody calls in and says, hey, I'm being harassed, I'm a I'm a Minneapolis resident, I'm an American citizen, and I feel as if I'm being harassed by these ICE agents. What are your what's your police force supposed to do? Well?
It all depends on the nature of the call. Of course, we respond to calls regarding kidnappings, and so if somebody says my son is getting kidnapped, we go. If if there is a protest taking place in an ambulance needs
¶ Do you believe the ICE operations are designed to provoke a response?
to get in to help somebody, we escort the ambulance in. If property damages take place, we deal with the property damage. And yes, we intervene if there is some form of misconduct or unlawful behavior that is part of our officer's jobs. And obviously this gets very difficult when you're also trying to determine whether the conduct that is taking place is within the roles and responsibilities provided delegated to ICE other agencies,
¶ ICE are trying to whip the public into a frenzy
or if it's outside that scope of a criminal nature. This is a very tenuous and difficult place for officers to be.
And let me guess most of your police officers don't travel with legal counsel.
Now, do they believe it or not? They don't.
I mean, I mean, I just so what is I mean? I get that each circumstance is unique, but you know what, what advice are your police officers getting and dealing with these situations.
Their their goal is to keep the peace, their goal to keep pizza.
De escalate whatever it is. They're just trying to de escalate.
¶ Is there a legal avenue for you to push back against DHS/ICE?
Absolutely, they try to de escalate the situation. They try to keep the peace. They do not and will not cooperate with ICE or any federal agency on immigration enforcement work. That's not our job, that's not what we do. And yeah, they're trying to keep people from getting hurt or injured. And the way that ICE is conducting this, I'm telling you it's I've never seen anything like this.
Do you think this is designed to provoke a response?
Yeah, perhaps, I don't. I mean, look, I don't. I'm not in the mind of either of these federal agents nor this administration. I think a lot of what is happening is designed to create some form of response. I mean, we don't have that many undocumented immigrants here. What they're doing is not based on safety. We have partnered with them based on safety. This seems to me like, you know, they are trying to whip people up into a frenzy. And I mean, thankfully and for the vast majority of
¶ There have been unimaginable constitutional violations by ICE
people in our city and the tens of thousands of protesters, they're not taking the bait. They're not countering Donald Trump's chaos with our own brand of chaos here.
You know.
That's that seems like what they're looking to do. And they've got fifteen hundred militarized troops that are presently on standby.
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¶ Non-white off duty Minneapolis officers have been harassed by ICE
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five day returns. And it's also available in Canada. That's q u i ncee dot com slash chuck, free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck. What legal avenues do you think you have to sort of at least limit ICE's uh ability
¶ People are being racially profiled and asked for their ID
to roam the city. I mean this sort of five to one ratio right being outnumbered by Ice and Border patrol versus your local police. That seems excessive. Is there a court Is there a legal avenue a court order you could get that says you know, this is this is outside the bounds of what's necessary, This is an excessive et cetera. Is there is there any lea avenue here?
There is a legal avenue. I am hopeful that we will succeed in the litigation that is presently underway. We have a judge. I think we're working towards a hearing. Dat I was hoping that it was going to be this Friday, and I'm optimistic.
And what do you want that judge to do? What's the specific ask?
This specific? I mean, there are several asks within the complaint itself, but the basic one is to stop the operation,
¶ ICE needs to be better trained and have a moral compass
appear and simple, yes, to stop the operation that is presently taking place, which is the huge influx of federal agents. I mean, look, you know ICE has existed now for decades. Immigration enforcement exists. We're not talking about like just ICE doing ICE stuff. We're talking about constitutional violations which have gone way beyond anything I could imagine it. This is targeting of Somalia and Latino people.
This is.
I mean, this is actually happening. Do you look Somali? Do you look Latino dragging people off the street, give me your passport or else we're detaining you. That is actually happening, you know, mister May, this is the hardest thing to convey. I think these days, especially in the world of deep fakes, nothing you believe, nothing online feels
¶ Police received a call from a 5 year old whose parents were taken
like it's on the up and up. Obviously we live, we've been sort of poisoned by these algorithms and all of that.
I find this to be the hardest thing to convey to people who are not seeing it firsthand, and I imagine you feel this frustration as well. There was a Brooklyn Park police chief when viral yesterday with some comments he made about what has happened to off duty officers who just don't happen to look like you and me? What kind of experiences have you heard on that front? And if you talk to any of these off duty cops, have they shared their experiences with ice of you?
¶ Worried that residents could take matters into their own hands?
Yeah, we've heard countless instances very similar, almost identical to what you heard from that. I believe it was Brooklyn Park, Yeah, police chief.
For those of you that are in Brooklyn Park, I believe that's where Jesse Ventura was mayor if I'm not mistaken.
Back in the day, I often get to who if it's from Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center, which are right next to E.
But I do think you were one of them. Was where Jesse Ventur got to start, right? Yeah? For those outside of Minnesota keeping score at home, anyway, go ahead, Sorry, I am all. I am, after all a political Juggie pot page.
I am impressed. Yes, No, Minnesota has gone a long a long history of of interesting and fascinating and politicians.
One of my favorite states, you know, because of that. I love the characters and the personalities and what I use what Hubert Humphrey once called the politics of joy that was Minnesota.
In Minneapolis actually not a lot of joy these days.
¶ Has the "No ICE on city property" policy worked?
Oh my gosh. Yeah, this is the kind of dynamic that we're hearing about constantly. And apart from, of course, the unlawfully detaining people of the United States citizens, apart from the gimme your passport and your identification based on nothing more than being a part being a person of color. I mean, we've seen we've seen our own city employees
in city uniforms, by the way, in city vests. You know, There'll be four public works employees out there filling potholes, and the three that are brown or black get id and the one guy that's white. Doesn't mean you can't do that. Uh, they're filling potholes. This ain't America. The other thing that we're seeing is just just really dumb, just dumb anti safety conduct taking place.
You get they were better trained, this might be going better.
¶ There have been talks with Tim Walz over deploying MN national guard
Oh yeah, well, better trained, a better direction, better moral authority, some some form of moral compass, you know, the over on Third Avenue, which is the street that we are right off right now. It's a pretty significant street. They detained, They ice detained. Somebody yanked them out of the car, kept the car in drive. There's nobody in the car. Car is just rolling down the street with nobody in it. I mean, that could have hit my parents, you know,
that could have injured somebody. We've got other instances where they detained the person and then suddenly you got a stray dog and the dog is just roaming around the city. It's cold out right now. We got a call in, you know, the other day from a five year old kid who was speaking Spanish saying, I don't know where my parents are. They haven't come home. I mean, this is the kind of heartbreaking stuff that we're hearing about right now. And again, it's not about catching criminals. I'm
just sick of this narrative. I'll take the most the simplest position that I have maybe ever taken as mayor, which is in Minneapolis. Were anti murder in Minneapolis, were anti rape. If you want to catch a murder or rapist,
¶ What's behind the subpoena received by the mayor's office?
we're on board, let's do it. That's not what this is about, though.
How concerned. Are you that residents are going to take matters into their own hands.
I mean, of course that is a concern, But for the most part, I mean I'm inspired. I have been watching people go source their local food bank and get
¶ DOJ is being weaponized to target leaders that disagree with Trump
people groceries and escorting people on their walk or their drive to work. I mean, you have tens of thousands of people showing the world exactly who Minneapolis is and what we say stand for and our core convictions and values, and by the way, people from different ideological perspectives as well, all saying, you know what, I love our neighbor, we stand by them, we support our local business or local restaurants.
I mean, it's something that is truly magnificent. I've never been more proud to be from Minneapolis.
I want to go back to the decision not to let Ice use city property. I understand the symbolic nature of that. It hasn't deterred Ice from arguably causing even more chaos by getting using private property, being disruptive using federal property. Is that policy workable?
I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean, we want to make it clear that we will not
¶ The current Department of Justice can't be trusted
cooperate with them and allow them to do this really unconstitutional conduct with our resources and that includes our parking lots. Look, is it like some big monumental measure. No, No, I'm certainly not arguing that. But it was a tool that we had and it's a tool that we're going to use.
Do you need more resources from the state?
I mean, always we're always asking for re.
Sure on this particular issue. I mean, i mean, look, this seems like a far fetch question. But and I and I'll be honest, I've I've not wanted to go down this road because of the of the implications of it. But if you thought about asking the governor to call up the National Guard to help deal with ice in your community.
We have talked with the governor about calling up the National Guard and what that would look like and where they would where and how they would be utilized. Importantly, the governor has the authority over the National Guard, not the president.
The governor.
Governor has the authority of when, where, how and if to implement the National Guards.
He has authority over the National Guard within the state of Minnesota. Correct, Yes, right, I mean there is a like he couldn't tell this that a sort of national guard go into Wisconsin.
Correct, that should have been that distinction.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, well I just I was just doing the sort of for the list everybody.
Yeah, and he has called them up to have them
¶ There's so much value to having career civil servants over political loyalists
on standby on the number of occasions already. And that's a very important move one because we've got the additional resources if in fact we need them. We haven't. But what it also does is show Governor Wallas has got it. You know, he's he's on And I think that's a very important point.
What do you have an understanding what what the subpoena was about that you received? I know it wasn't you personally, it was I guess the was it the City of Minneapolis or the office of the mayor.
That got the office of the mayor?
And what were the record? What was subpoena?
I mean, all sorts of stuff. I think generally these subpoena processes, especially through grand juria, or supposed to be secret, but they're clearly trying to make a big public fiasco out of it. I don't have the thing in front of me. I mean what I'll say is it should be deeply concerning to everyone that the Department of Justice is being weaponized to go after political leaders that disagree
with the president. I mean, the thing in essence that I would be getting targeted for is doing one of my most core and critical jobs that I have as mayor, and that's to speak on behalf of my constituents. It's frivolous. I almost don't like saying that because it's so obvious. And then this kind of this is problematic for everybody. We should all be very well.
Look, I've often said a bit in jest that if the FBI came knocking on my door and showed up up with some sort of charge, I wouldn't believe him. I'd tell them, I don't think you're the FBI. I don't believe you. I mean, I say they are, you know, being a little like I said, it's a tad bit tongue in cheap, but you know, the level of credibility
¶ There's been a failure to believe that Trump will do what he says he'll do
that the federal law enforcement agencies have with a large share of the public is quite low right now. I mean, do you trust the current Department of Justice?
No? No, I mean, and that's a crazy it's not a crazy thing to say right now, but it should be. It should be my mentality, my mentality throughout My life has been of a whole lot of faith and trust in not just the federal government, but specifically the Department of Justice, of these kind of legal supposedly quasi independent entities that are able to enforce and carry out the law.
¶ Any end in sight to the ICE occupation of Minneapolis?
I mean. And part of that faith stems from the fact that you've got these long term bureaucrats. Bureaucrats often have a negative connotation to them, but they are these people that span beyond administration. They were there for Bush and Clinton, they were there for Obama.
The careers, know, I wish we wouldn't call them bureaucrats, say their careers, which frankly, you know, was something that was actually a civil service reform that goes back if you I think people got a mini education on it, if they binged to death by lightning on Netflix recently. It was sort of the hallmark of the Garfield, Chester Arthur presidencies. Was this to create this nonpartisan government worker protection.
¶ Will you be able to do a real investigation into the shooting of Renee Good?
And there's so much value to that one because you've got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between administrations into the conviction and the loyalty is not to some guy, it's to America. And you talk to so many of these people and they're like, they're very much sure they vote, but they are very much postpartisan, I mean, and they believe in command and control and the order that they bring.
And they also very much believe in the Constitution, and that so many of these career would you call them careerists, these professionals, that so many of them have said, that's it, We've had enough work out, we can't do this anymore. Both, I give them a lot of credit for, you know, leaving their job because they're not going to do this horrible thing. And at the same time, it's really problematic
because what does that leave you with. It leaves you with I don't know, a loyalists who are just going to do whatever the president tells you to. Let me.
I know you're busy. I want to get you out of here in this which is given the experience now you're feeling of this weaponized federal government, right. I look, it looks like you've been to targeted. This looks like it's an attempt to spark A response was a this was a specific let's go here, there's a blue city activist we can that won't be popular with centrist you know, you can see the sort of political design in the heads of these folks. Do you think people didn't stand
up to Trump enough? Has there been too much appeasement? Do you think do you have any advice or told you sos to eddy Democratic leaders when it comes to Trump that you'd like to express, or do you feel as if that, Hey, guess what, you know? Failure of imagination is basically the only sin people have committed when it comes to Donald Trump.
Failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going to do the things that he says he's going to do.
Well, We're used to politicians not doing that, right, so we just assume he's full of it. And the thing is, he is full of it until he's not full of it.
I mean, some of these horrific things he has told people that he was going to do them, and you know, I could probably count myself in with those that should have believed that he was going to do some of this crazy stuff, because at least initially back in twenty sixteen, I kind of shoved it off, like, oh, come on,
that's ridiculous. But now we're in a second term here, and he's carrying some of it out and it's terrifying and it's reached a whole new level than anything that we saw in that first term.
Well, do you think there's any end in sight to this or is it going to your last Is the court the sort of the last place you can go.
Well, we are accessing every single channel that we have. Yes, we are litigating preemptively. We are litigating in response to what's taking place. I am very optimistic that we're going to win. And at the same time, we are also accessing other channels in the federal government in the White House to try to get this to change, you know, pushing out to business leaders and CEOs to have them utilize their connections.
Or it has been bad politics for the Republicans. This has not been good for them. Just if you just look at it, it's been bad politics, so one would assume that they would change. By the way, are you going to be able to do a real investigation on whether renee Good was murdered?
We need to do a real investigation. The investigations should run through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is the state based agency that has done these investigations on use of force repeatedly. They've run investigations that have come to both charging decisions and a lack of charge. This is not some radical organization. This is largely you know, lawyers and police officers that are part of this group, and that's where it needs to go.
Has there been an investigation opened and they just can't get cooperation or you're waiting to see if you get cooperation before you can open an investigation.
There, well, the federal government has My understanding is that they have blocked out the b c A from getting critical and important evidence that we have allowed them to run this investigation side by side with the FBI, sure and the side.
It would have been a normal way to do business back in the normal way.
Very normal way. I mean it has it has done that before. That's the way we have operated for uh. But but and you know, barring that, yeah, I would like to be see it to do the investigation themselves, and of course there will be support.
How much of your job is dominated by this current crisis, I.
Mean much of it obviously, But we're you know, we're going to keep providing important constituent services. We do the work of the city. You know, city governments were the ones that don't shut down so we keep rolling. We're not quitting. We're not going to get intimidated by what's going on.
Mister Mayor. I appreciate the time. Like I said, I know you're busy, so when or one hour podcast is a lot to ask. So I appreciate you giving me thirty unor to be here with you watching a lot as a kid, so I've watched me for a long time. Well, I appreciate you making me feel little. That's awesome. Yeah, thanks, all right, thank you, mister mack alright. By having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away. We didn't
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