¶ Intro / Opening
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I think y'all are ready to hear from our keynote, right, all right, let's see this. I will introduce them. They are ready to come on first our moderator. Our moderator. Of course you all know him, Chuck Todd. He's a six time Emmy Award winner and former hosts of Meet the Press on NBC. He now hosts the Chuck Todcast,
¶ Introduction
which is a weekly podcast featuring in depth interviews with political leaders, and of course he will be interviewing Governor Wes Moore.
Wes Moore is there we go.
He is the sixty third governor of the state of Maryland and the state's first black governor.
That's right, that's right.
He's the author of the Other Wes Moore, which is a perennial New York Times bestseller, and his most recent book is Five Days, which tells the story of Baltimore in the days following the death of Freddie Gray in twenty fifteen. Please welcome them both to the stage.
¶ Chuck Todd is joined by Maryland Governor Wes Moore
Well, this is good. We save a little bit of time. I don't have to do the extra work of reminding everybody about their cell phones and the silencing and all of that. But officially, I want to do my part on behalf of the Texas Tribune. While welcome, It is an honor to have Governor Wes Moore here. We're both DMV ers. So for those of you, I still weird out by saying DMV because I think the most people that are like, why are you talking about the Department
of Motor Vehicles. We're trying really hard in the Mad Atlantic to make this District Maryland Virginia thing stick, aren't we exactly? You knowact it goes? Well, let's just get started. I got a laundry list of stuff I'm want to ask you about. But I actually want to start with this. You're a pretty optimistic guy. Yes, there's a lot of people in this room that feel a lot of pessimism about the country right now, and I have it in
my family. I think a lot of people, Which is you vacillate between oh my god, where are we headed to? Look we're going to be okay? Where do you sit on that spectrum? You know? Of this is you have Gavin Newsom who says, you know, he doesn't ever want to have free and fair elections again versus this is a period in time in American politics and things are cyclical. What's say you? Well, I think both those things are true.
And first let me say you what a real pleasure it is to be back here, vish'alle and thank you so much for having me.
And it's an honor to being too shock it really is.
And shout out to Sonal and shout out to the team for putting on once again another amazing, amazing conference that I'm just truly humbled in honor to be a part of. I think both of those things are true. I don't think Donald Trump wants to have more free and fair elections. The reason I'm optimistic is because I believe that if we do our part, Donald Trump is not going to have the final say that this actually becomes a unique moment for where leaders actually have to
show themselves. And you know, one of the eight things
¶ Balancing optimism in pessimism in the current political climate
that I feel about. You know, and this is going to sound a little bit odd, but this. You know, I've now been governor for for two and a half years, and we're really proud of all the work that we've gotten done in two and a half years. But these past ten months have both been the most challenging and the most important that we've had to deal with over the.
Past two and a half years.
Challenging for the obvious reasons. And I can talk about why Maryland that no state has taken the brunt of Donald Trump more than Maryland, where I have over two hundred and seventy thousand federal employees, more than any other state in this country. Donald Trump has now fired over fifteen thousand of my people. That we have not received a dollar of federal disaster relief, despite having historic floods over in western Maryland, that he's taken away billions of
dollars in grants and capital towards our state. That he has now tried to take away the FBI building because he says that he will never let the FBI building go to a liberal state, that he's threaten to put national Guard inside of our streets. I mean, like, there is no state that has had to take on this, not again, not glancing blows, but I mean direct shots
from the president. The thing that I also know, though, is this is despite all of that, this is actually a chance where leadership has the chance to show itself. And I think it's never mattered more who your governor is. It's never mattered more, who your attorney's general is. It's
¶ No state has felt the impact of Trump more than Maryland
never mattered more whether your people have fight or not. And I love the fact that actually, in this moment, that we have a chance to show what does a better direction actually look like like. I don't have the luxury to just rail against the system. I don't have the luxury of just talking about how bad things are. I have an obligation to show my people what a
better direction actually looks like. And so the thing that continues to give me and why I still am deeply, deeply optimistic about our future is both because I know our history and like, listen, if anyone thinks that these are this is the worst of times. I kind of remind people that, you know, I literally come from a state that if you look at my state flag, my state flag, because people forget Maryland is the northernmost southern state in the country, Like, the state flag of Maryland
is literally a combination. It's a contradiction, right, It's a combination of both a Confederate symbol and a Union symbol.
You know, some of us joke that the Mason Dixon line has moved somewhere into Virginia now, but I take your point.
But you know, but I mean, but it's like real, It's like the bloodiest battles of the Civil War were fought in our soil. Right, that we are literally the birthplace of redlining in the state of Maryland, That we're the birthplace of Harriet Tubman, the birthplace of Frederick Douglass.
And part of the reason that I do have a real sense of hopefulness and optimism is, you know, I imagine to myself, like what would a hypothetical conversation between between me and Harriet Tubman be, Like, like me telling Harriet Tubman how difficult my day was, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, so I just you got to keep this in context where I understand what Donald Trump thinks, but I'm just a firm believer that Donald Trump is not going to have a final say.
How much effort should be made to confront Donald Trump by the Democratic Party leaders, and how much effort should be made about laying the groundwork for a world post Donald Trump.
So I think there has to be a combination where where we do have an obligation to push back, because
¶ Maryland is where America's north and south blend & clash
you cannot watch what is happening right now and think that we're just going to sit here and take it or ignore it. I have a very real problem. I have a very real problem with people who, in this moment are getting really quiet. I have a very real problem in this moment with these people who, these leaders who somehow think that if we just sit quiet, the beating will stop, or if we just say nothing, he
will ignore us. And I just want to be very clear, that is not how this game works, and that's not how this movie's gonna end. Like, we have an obligation both to push back, but we also do have an
¶ Confronting Trump vs. preparing for a post-Trump world
obligation to push forward. And you know, and I think about it now, and I was speaking earlier with with with Solo about it where there will be a post Trump world, right, And I think that everything that we are seeing right now, it's going to fall into five categories, and we just have to be clear about what category everything we're talking about falls in. There are some things that are just broken and will never be repaired. There are some things that are broken and we can repair.
There's some things that are broken and we can repair. But differently, there's some things that will survive that we need to break, and there's certain things that will survive that we need to keep.
We just had to be.
Very clear and very honest about what things fall in each of those five buckets. But I think so we have to come up with that balance of yes, pushing back, but also being very clear that that pushing back is not going.
To be enough.
We also have to find ways of pushing forward as well.
Let's talk about the government shutdown. This had to feel you had to be torn about it. On one hand, you you just talked about the importance of pushing back. On the other hand, you have a lot of constituents that were out of work and we're struggling because they weren't going to get paid, and it's a you can't pay your rent with a promise, right, you need to actually have cash in the checking account. Was it a good tactic? Was it the right call? Should it still be shut down?
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna be honest, Chuck, I'm not torn about at all. There is no reason that the government should have been shut down. But because think about it, like this has very and I don't know a single governor that says, oh, yeah, we should just shut the government down like this has real human consequences for us.
You're glad it opened up.
Oh, I'm very glad and opened up. But I'll give you I'll give you a caveat and and perst of all, first of all, it's just absurd.
That Washington, d c. Can just shut down.
Like I mean, like like.
By the way, it's two legal people, one in Carter's Justice department, one in Reagan's Justice department, who just came up with a legal theory that this is what happens when there's a funding dispute, that we should just cease operations. It's crazy, it's ridiculous, it's not in the constitution. It should never happen.
Ever, Okay, ever, we should never allow a government shutdown, and like, think about it, Like I can't walk into my state house and say, you know what, Maryland, we're shutting down.
I can't do it at McDonald's.
Kim McDonald's, Ken ken a family. Could you walk to your family tonight and say, you know, y'all shut down, we're shutting down, shut down, turn no streaming right, Like, no one does this except for Washington DC. So the whole idea that we have government shutdowns is just so absurd on its face, and particularly when you have very
real human consequences. I'm like, again, I have over two hundred and seventy thousand people, many of whom and who have the audacity to do things like making sure that our food is safe, who have the audacity of doing things like making sure that we're finding the cures to diseases, who are crazy enough to think that their job is so special that they're trying to keep planes from colliding or that or that that military veterans like myself, that
that military veterans can get the medication that they need. Like these are who you went after, and by the way, for many of these people that you then turn around and force them to go to work with no pay, while we have people in Washington who are getting paid and not going to work. Right, So so we did
¶ Did the Democrats take the right approach to the shutdown?
so in our state, we made sure that we were going to take care of our people. So that's why in our state, you know, I said that we were going to do and I worked with our private tech to partners. I said, We're doing a moratorium on all evictions, on all utility shutoffs. You were not going to evict our federal workers or shut their utilities off because they are not getting paid for something that is not their faults.
That we told all of our federal workers, all these people who are going to work and not getting paid but still paying to go to work, that I told them all all transportation that we have in the state of Maryland, just show your badge. Transportation for you is free. You do not have to pay for anything. And that we had to do things like and then we saw a situation where you go to President of the United States who's doing things like breaking the law and trying
¶ Shutdowns are predicated on a legal theory, not the constitution
to cut off SNAP despite the fact that, by the way, twenty eight thousand SNAP recipients in our state are military veterans. One in one in three, one in four of our federal workers are military veterans. So I love this for a person who claims to love the military, and the first thing you're doing is going after our veterans. So the federal government should never been shut down in the
first place. However, I will say this how deeply inhumane it is and it was to think that a good compromise is that a prerequisite for reopening the government is kicking people off of health care or having premiums jump by eighty and ninety percent. So I am very glad the federal government is reopened. I'm very glad that we can stop doing stupid things like shutting down our federal government.
But I do want to be very and I know I didn't have a vote, so no one asked me my opinion, but I do want to be very clear. You would never find anything ever with my signature on it, that thinks it's okay to kick people off of health care as somehow that means you have a justifiable or you have a function in government. If you are kicking people off of health care, it means your government is not functioning. And we have to be very very clear about that.
Let me ask about when the President was starting to pick on other cities. After he picked on Washington, Baltimore was mentioned, and you did an interest. You made an interesting decision. You said, no, we don't want the National Guard here, that's a mistake. However, I'm going to bring in UH state police to assist in Baltimore. Frankly, I
¶ Maryland took steps to mitigate damage from the shutdown
thought that was pretty politically savvy. But I will ask this, Does that mean Donald Trump has a point about our cities? Not at all? So why did you do it?
Well, I didn't. The reason I did it, it wasn't a response to Donald Trump at all. You know, when I first became the governor of Maryland, we had a violence crisis in our state. In twenty twenty two, the year before I became the governor, Baltimore City was averaging about a homicide a day. That if you look at the eight years before I became the governor Maryland was Maryland average. The Maryland homicide rate had doubled over an eight year period. The non fatal shooting rate did double.
Do you know what's the cause? How much of it was COVID, how much of it's something else?
Well, No, I think there's a whole bunch of reasons. I thought, you think it had one. If when you neglect communities and you allow hope to leave, violence will enter and will fill the space. I think we had a very real issue when it came to law enforcement, and I think, you know, when I talked about, you know the book that I wrote five days, how there was a steep cutoff and fall off of law enforcement
¶ Kicking people off healthcare is an indefensible position for shutdown
people who were signing up, who are staying on the role. And so there's a few things that I did because I was very clear, I said from Jump Street when I knew the crisis we had, I'm not going to spend my eight years just giving eulogies and offering thoughts and prayers that we're actually going to address the issue.
And so when I came on board, we made historic investments in local law enforcement and making sure you had not just boots on the ground, but saying we can have a police force that moves with appropriate intensity and absolute integrity and full accountability. That we said we're going to invest in technologies and basically saying you can utilize technologies to make sure that if someone commits a violent crime, particularly a violent crime with a firearm, I want them
in handcuffs in twenty four hours. And also we said we're going to invest in our community, community violence intervention groups, community violence interruption groups, because so much of the violence that we were seeing in our communities it was retaliatory by nature, and so you must invest in community to
be able to help to address those issues. When so here was the reality when Donald Trump started making his threats that for the past two and a half years, there is no state that has seen a faster drop off when it comes to violent crime than the state of Maryland. That the last time the homicide rate was
¶ Does Donald Trump have a point about crime in major cities?
this slow in Baltimore City, I wasn't born yet. That we are literally watching historic drops in violent crime, historic drops and property crime and auto thefts and carjackings and homicides and non fatal shootings. And the President wants to look at us like we're the problem. I said, is to President, you don't need to look at us like we're the problem. Actually, shoul look at us like we're
the solution. And if you want to spend time, if you want to spend time actually learning instead of bloviating from the Oval office, these like nineteen eighties Archie Bunker, you know, you know then you should come spend some time with it.
So I'm did you offer to take him for a while? I did.
I offered it take him for a walk. I told him if it was too long a walk, I would get him a golf cart. I you know, you know, I'm, I'm I I mean, but because the thing about it is, and this is also why it was so offensive to me.
You know, he he.
Uses the military like it's some form of like some like these childish toy soldiers, and it's just really rich because he's someone who does not know what it means to put on the uniform. He doesn't know what it means to say goodbye to your family, He doesn't know what it means. He does not know what it means to be willing to put your life on the line for the person to your left or to your right.
¶ How Maryland was able to significantly lower crime rate
And as someone who does, as someone who served my country, as someone who led soldiers in combat, I just found it deeply offensive that his solution to this was this, you know, this childish endeavor of saying, well, we'll just send the National Guard into cities. And let's be very clear if there was any data to show that this would actually work.
Again, I'm a data driven person. I'm listening.
Here is the problem. There is no data. This was not a data driven decision. This was an emotive splurge that the President has a habit of making. And so if you look at what's happened, even when he's deployed National Guard to Washington, d C. And these other places, here's what I can tell you. The National Guard members who are not trained for municipal policing. That is not what they are trained for. And I know that because I am the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard.
And I know what my people are trained for.
And they are supposed to be deployed during times of emergency, during times of crisis. They are not there to perform performative stunts. And so the truth is is that we've had members of the National Guard who have taken more selfies than done arrests. We have members of the National Guard who have picked up more trash than actually conducted
drug busts. And so the issue that I had, of the multiple issues that I have with the President when he was threatening to do this and trying to make these, you know, these ridiculous comments about me and members of our National Guard is how deeply disrespectful it is to members of our military, because these are people who are willing to risk their lives if necessary, because they trust that their commander in chief is taking their lives seriously.
They trusted the directions that the commander in chief are making are not just lawful, but informed. And they trusted
¶ Trump uses the military like they're childish toy soldiers
their commander in chief would never put them in a situation that they are not trained for, and never put them in a situation that they are not prepared to excel in. And I found it just deeply disrespectful to our National Guard, deeply disrespectful to their family members to ask them to do these quixotic missions simply because the president is trying to prove a political point.
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dot Com promo code todcast for thirty percent off. So I read today actually that the incoming mayor of New York City has been calling various governors seeking advice on how to deal with Donald Trump, and one of the governors he called was you, is that a correct report? That is correct port? Do you mind sharing the advice you gave him?
Yeah, no, I I the the advice. Uh, you know, the advice that I gave him is performance matters more than anything else. What Donald Trump is talking about, what Donald Trump is doing is performative. What people want in your jurisdiction is performance. They want results. And this is actually one of the big things that I think about for the Democratic Party, where you know, people are like, well, what's the message for the Democratic Party? Like the Democrats
don't have a messaging problem. The Democrats have a results problem. You've got to actually deliver results, and and and and the and the thing that I'm very clear about is that if you you know, when you say when when the present is like, we need to talk more about affordability. No, you need to address affordability, sir. You don't need to
talk about affordability. You need to make sure we're doing things like making sure that housing is more available because one of the leading causes for people to lead jurisdictions is rising housing costs, and if you have increased demand, which means more people coming to an area, the thing you have to do to address it is you have to increase supply. You have to build more housing, and you have to build it fast. Right if you really, if you really want to address things like rising energy
CAUs it's not just talking about rising energy costs. You need to have more energy options and you need to stop doing what we're watching the president do. Where in our state, I'm very clear that we want to be able to explore all energy options because you want to increase supply. So that means why are we not looking at investing in things like solar, Why are we not investing in win, Why are we not investing in nuclear?
And look at nuclears a clean energy option? But no, but the President still continue to take an ideological perspective to it and then turn around and say, well, let's blame democrats why prices are going up. And so the thing and the council that I really gave it that like listen, you know, don't don't get distracted, stay focused, and stay focused on delivering the results that the people of your jurisdiction need. And if you do that, You're gonna be fine.
It does seem as if you only deal with you only respond, you only respond to Trump. You don't seem
¶ Advice Wes Moore gave to Zohran Mamdani for dealing with Trump
to seek out confrontation with.
High I have no desire to pick a fight with the President of the United States, you know what I'm saying. But I refuse to let the president of the United States, you know, pick on my people where I've been very clear with the people of my state, like I will work with anyone, but I will bow down to no one, and I will not let and I'm not gonna let the people of my state become a pincushion for for his for his uh, you know, for his childish s florness.
I'm going to drop the Trump subject here after this one last question. He's won two terms for president. What does he do? What does he do well that has allowed him to get elected twice? Ah, what have you learned anything from him?
No?
Absolutely, And listen, I think we will be.
We would be.
We can spend all night long talking about the dangers of what he is doing and how we literally have a president United States who's using the Constitution like it's a suggestion box.
I think I wish he did use it as a suggestion. Thoughts, actually he.
Should take more suggestions. But we would also be foolish not to acknowledge the speed in which he moves. Where, you know, I think about it this way, where.
You don't care about institutions and whether they have to write their own version of the memo before you get to institute implement your plan.
Right, Oftentimes everything from Democrats is.
Like an eight year research paper.
It's like, well, let's do another analysis of the analysis that we concluded of the last analysis.
You need to make sure to approve a committee to do that analysis.
By the way, Donald Trump did not need a two year commission to decide he was going to start a trade war. Donald Trump did not need a four year analysis to decide that he was going to break the law and kick children off of snap. Donald Trump did not need a eighteen person commission to decide that he was going to take parts of the Constitution and literally pick and choose which judge's orders he would follow and not.
And I just think that the Democratic Party has got to stop being the party of no and slow and starting the party of yes. And now I think the Democratic Party have got to start moving faster. I think the Democratic Party have got to be start being more
¶ What does Trump do well that got him elected twice?
more deliberate. I think the Democratic Party has got to stop making everything a tenth grade debate club research paper. And I just believe that you know, there is something that we do understand that he actually does that he moves with a level of speed and frankly, Donald Trump, and I said, Donald Trump is a fantastic vessel for the frustration. He's someone who's going to tell you what's wrong with it. He's going to see someone who's going to tell you who broke it, who's to blame for it,
and why he alone can fix it. Right, Donald Trump is a vessel for the frustration, but he's not a vehicle for the solution. I think the answer that the Democrats have got to do is we've got to start being the vehicle for the solution and stop pretending like
these problems are not problems. Because if we start moving with a sense of speed to address the issue that if we can have, if we if our solutions actually match the speed in which people's lives are falling apart, then you're not going to have election problems anymore.
But that's the thing I think we've got to learn from him. Let's you brought up affordability and you brought up electricity, and this is this is It looks like the electric bill in twenty twenty six is going to be what the price of eggs was in twenty twenty four, right, Meaning this is going to be an issue. We're seeing
¶ Donald Trump doesn't wait to act
it everywhere. Right. It was a big, big issue in New Jersey. I'm a Virginian. Louden County is on fire about these data centers. Maryland's in an interesting spot right as far as where your place is on the grid, and you know, you're having to have more transmission lines right, are coming through the state in order to power these data centers in the v of the DMV. And yet the way we do electric bills, it's all state regulated
and all of that stuff. This feels like we are we're sort of a slow motion train wreck where suddenly government's going to get left with a huge tab to subsidize a whole bunch of people who can't afford electricity anymore. What can be done proactively in your state to lessen the impact of what is clearly going to be a surge in electrical uh, a surgeon use off the grid, which is just going to raise all of our electric bills.
And it's it's it's it's insane that we've even gotten here in the first place, because there's just been a deep level of negligence that is that's existed.
You know we have now you don't have to tell Texans about a power grid issue. That's true. I think they're well aware and allow will laugh about it. You know, it's real. Let's hope there's not a tough winner here. That's right, right, they have a tough winner. That grid goes down, all of us may pay a price.
Across I'll say, it's it's not just y'all that will pay it pay a larger price.
It's it's it will be the entire country. Right.
So there's a there's a few different things that I think we have just completely missed a boat on. We've missed a boat when it comes to understanding the level
¶ The electric bill will be the "price of eggs" issue in 2026
of surging, surging demand that exists. And it's not just it's not even just surging demand that you have from UH companies and technology, it's also just the human surge of demand that has now existed that we have not made the investments when it comes to grid technology, we have not made the investments when it comes to pipeline and when you do have a few of these operators for example, you know, and for us it's it's it's PGM where you know where there's about thirteen states that
PGM covers down on where the processes are opaque, the processes are convoluted, and the processes are things that frankly, for a lot of the states we don't have a measure of involvement in and so we have PJAM who will then make decisions about which projects they will then allow without the input that's coming from us, from from our individual states, from Pennsylvania, from Maryland, from Virginia, from all from Jersey, from all these other states.
But your state regulatory agency with the power companies doesn't have any impact on this.
Camp because because they are they are an independent with rates. All they do is just approve rates well. And what they do is they prove projects okay. And so the problem is is that if you have a choke point for projects that allowed to come on, it means that
¶ What can government do to alleviate high electricity prices?
you have a decreased supply. And so I think you have to have reform within PJAM. You have to allow and be speedier about putting more projects that allowed to come on board. We have to do a better job of diversifying the type of energy options that we have. If you can do that, you're then able to increase the supply that's then able to address the supply and demand curve. The problem is is that we have found ourselves in a situation that for a decade plus there
has not been this type of investment. And so now you come up with a situation where you have a crisis situation and something where people are now watching their energy bills continue to skyrocket for the same exact product line. And so I agree, I think this is one of the crucial issues that we've got to be able to sort on, and frankly, something that no individual state alone is going to have to figure out. It's going to take really a coordination between all of our individual states to do it.
I hear you, But look, you're in an electioneer. People are going to want some They're going to want some help right now. Yes, what could you do in the state level.
Well, we can help when it comes to things like like, for example, just a few weeks ago, I just put an additional ten million dollars that is going towards energy prices and energy bills as we're coming up to as we're coming up to our winter season, helping with heating bills. So we've done rebates that have gone back to the people, to the people of our state. So there are things that we can do to help out with the immediate pain.
But I think that has to be matched with also additional investments that's can be made to deal with the long term processes, because none of us have an interest or frankly, there is no state that has a balance sheet to continue just finding more expensive band aids. We've got to actually fix the wound that is causing increased demand. But where supply is just not keeping up or matching with it.
What should the all these AI tech companies that are skyrocketing the stock market, they have these incredible valuations, they're building these data centers, and look, there's it's not every state where the data centers are causing this problem. It's it's some states that they are, some that they aren't.
And some data centers have no I have their own.
Power centers and all of that. What I guess the question is if if somebody wants to build a data center in Maryland. What does that? What would a Microsoft
¶ We need to diversify energy projects and bring online faster
have to do or an IBM if they wanted to build a data center in Maryland, what would you want them to do to minimize the impact on your residence. Well, I think there's a few things.
One is, and I've been very clear and we've actually, you know, had projects that we say are not going to move forward, because if you're not moving forward with the community, then things cannot move forward.
These aren't job creators, are they, these data centers?
Well, they're they're job creators, but they're not job creators. And when you're looking at that long term job creators, no, and not and not massive job creators. Right, So listen, I am actually I believe that we need to do a better job of critical infrastructure. I believe that our state needs to do more to invite critical infrastructure. I also, though, believe that nothing can or will happen in my state without the impact of the community. And I think the
community will always have the final say with me. It's part of the reason that I have a lot of issues with some of these projects that pg going back to PGAM that they then put on board, where you were literally putting together lines and transmission lines and you're looking at them, You're putting it throughout my map without realizing that people actually live there, like it's a game about where they are placing this without any form of
feedback from us or any former feedback from the community. And so I believe that we need to invest in critical infrastructure. I believe that when we're talking about the future of AI and cyber and quantum, that these are things that I want my state to be not just a national but a global leader in. But I also know that this has to happen in partnership with the community. This is not going to be what we're doing to
the community. It has to be what we're doing actually with the community in these build outs.
Are you working with any of these companies that have taken that attitude?
Oh, well, we are, because for all these companies, they understand if you're not taking that attitude, then you're not doing projects in my state.
You before you were a politician. I first met you when you were CEO of something called the Robin Hood Foundation. Yeah, in New York City. It's an incredible a charitable organization
¶ What is the responsibility of tech companies building data centers
primarily funded by the Wall Street folks. Right, would you say fair Yeah. I say this because Wall Street money right is a dirty word in the Democratic Party today. Well, this is why I want to give you a chance. Yeah, make your case for why Democrats shouldn't be so skeptical of Wall Street.
Well, I think about the work that I did at Robin Hooden, and it's this idea that for each and every one of us, we should understand the scourge that poverty, and particularly child poverty is in our society. I mean fundamentally. That's actually the reason why I ran. That's really the reason and why I ran for governor in the first place. Is you know, when I was talking with you know, I remember actually talking with a board member, Robin d and when I told him, I think I'm gonna leave
and I'm gonna go run for governor. And he said, well, what is shees doing to work on? I'm like, I want to work on things like child poverty. I want to work on things like the racial wealth gap. And he's like, but you're doing that here, why would you leave and run for office? And I remember looking at him and saying, and.
Acquire a whole bunch of extra bureaucracy to do those things sometimes, right.
Now, that's right, yeah, And I remember looking at him and I said to him, why do you think poverty exists in the first place, Like, do you think poverty exists because one group is just not working hard enough? Like we have poverty because we have policies that allow it to exist. We have poverty because we have policies that put people in poverty and keep them in poverty.
¶ AI & tech advancement must be done in partnership with communities
We have a wealth gap, not because one group is working eight times harder, but there are policies that allow this to exist. And so I think that the only way you're actually going to address it that you know, I remember doctor King had a quote that sat on my desk where it said philanthropy is commendable, but the philanthropists can never forget the economic injustice that makes philanthropy necessary.
And my whole thing is this is that for our philanthropists, what you're doing is good, but if you do not understand why the policies that are being put in place. The policies for example, like we saw where you know, with the Big Beautiful Bill that was the largest upwards consolidation of wealth in world history, that literally was just
¶ Why should Democrats not be overly skeptical of Wall Street?
making it. It created all these challenges so billionaires could get a tax cut. And so I have and if you look at what we did in the state of Maryland, where we actually did an adjustment to our tax code, where we gave the middle class a tax cut.
In my state. And yes, I asked.
Wealthy Marylanders to pay more, because I said, I have no problem asking those who have done very well and who have benefited from the society that has been created, to say, I'm asking you to pay a little bit more so we don't have to lay off police officers and firefighters, so we don't have to lay off school teachers, so we can make sure that we can have safe communities and have the best public education system inside this country.
And so I'm a person who says and believes deeply like I don't you know when people say, you know, do you lose sleep over billionaires? I said, I don't lose sleep over billionaires. I want billionaires to pay their fair share. But I don't lose sleep over billionaires. I
¶ Poverty exists due to deliberate policy choices
lose sleep over how many people we have living in poverty. And I think we need to stay focused on ensuring that if we can create a more equitable society, and if we can create a society that listen, if you do well. Congratulations, God bless you. But what I am saying is this, you cannot do well just simply on the backs of working people and then not expect that there should be some form of way that we should.
Have a tax system that is a fair tax system.
That allows you to be able to get back into a society that you benefited from.
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poll with but plurality of Democrats. Democrats were the only political group that had a net negative view of capitalism and a net positive view of socialism. Why do you think that is well?
I mean, honestly, I'm not sure if people if you ask people the benefits of you know, what is socialism or what is capitalism, that people would.
Actually give you an understanding of what that. I don't think they know the definitions.
No, I mean, like honestly, like I remember, you know, I remember having a conversation with somebody who actually lives up in New York and this was actually during during the primary for the mayor's race, and they were like all in on Mamdani and so I was like, Oh, that's that's cool. So I was like, so, you know, so you know what excites You're there telling me all this stuff. And I was like, are you a democratic socialists?
And they're like, what's that? Like? They didn't, they weren't making the connection.
I got you. And I think for a.
Lot of people, the idea of what is a capitalist? What is a socialist? What is this?
What was that?
I think if you ask people fundamentally, like what do you believe in? Like, I can tell you like what I believe in, Like I believe that that that not everyone should end up in the same spot, but everyone should have a fair shot. I believe that we actually should be a society that believes opportunity is a real thing and not a punchline.
Equal access not equal outcomes.
Yeah, and and and that, and that we all shouldn't have the.
Same equal solution for everybody.
I mean it's the reason that, for example, that we have made the largest investments in trade and apprenticeship programs inside of our state because I'm very clear, like we have some of the best four year colleges in America, and something that I'm very proud of in the state of Maryland. But I'm also very clear I am going to end this lie that every single one of our students needs to attend one of them in order to
be economically successful. It's just not true that we are going that we've eliminated this idea that we're evaluating high schools based on your four year college acceptance rates. That's
an input, but it's not a key performance indicator. It's basically saying that, like, how do we make sure that we're having opportunities for people to be able to live out their God given opportunities and God given potential that people should have a chance to pursue work and wages and wealth and know that there's not one singular path
in order to get there, you know. And I tell people like, listen, I joined the army when I was seventeen years old, Right, I think I'm the only governor in this country who graduated from a two year college, right, you know? I and you know, and things worked out pretty well. So it's like, so there is no one singular path that we want people to go down. And I think when we're just talking about what does it mean to have a society that works for everybody. I believe that we need to know I am a I
am a capitalist. I also, though, believe that we need to make sure that we have a fair and equitable
¶ Why do Democrats have a net negative view of capitalism?
society as well.
Do you think the S word is a branding problem, the socialism No.
I think that we need to make sure that our society actually works for people. And when and when you when you have a situation where you know, I don't. I don't think that the answer for how do we fix society is complete redistribution.
I think the way you.
Actually fix society is you remove the barriers that are keeping people from participating and competing in the first place. I think one of the biggest ills we have on society right now is a level of concentrated poverty, and not just concentrated poverty, but generational poverty that we have within our state. Is the reason that we in Maryland passed something called the Enough Initiative, which stands for engaging neighborhoods, organizations, unions, governments,
and households basically everybody. And it is the most aggressive, most aggressive place based strategy that this nation has seen to address the issue of concentrated and generational childhood poverty. That I believe that we need to be able to address the racial wealth gap because the problem with the racial wealth gap is that it doesn't just hurt one group. Is that the racial wealth gap has cost this country sixteen trillion dollars in GDP.
Over the past two decades. That's GDP.
And so if you really want to have an economy that works for everybody, have an economy that actually everybody can participate.
In, the issue of reparations became a bit of a back and forth with your legislature, particularly, I think the Black legislatures there. We've been studying this for decades, Yes, don't Why hasn't it happened? Well?
And the reason when this when this came up in the General Assembly and they passed another commission, Yes, another study, year study, and frankly this this.
By the way, let me I apologize. I forgot to tell you guys about questions. And we're a couple of minutes away from him taking your question, so hurry up and get him in. They're up there. I was a bad moderator anyway, Governor going.
So, so if you if you look, if you look at our state, we have we have done four studies over the past twenty years dealing with this these.
Types of issues.
Sure, and I know that for a fact because one of which my wife worked on it. And so when a bill was passed for me to do another study, I vetoed it, and I vetoed it because I'm like, I'm sorry, what are we studying? I don't need another two year study on something that I already know the answer to.
Is this about whether to do it or how to? In your mind, should discussion be about whether to do it or how to do it?
I think the work of repair is a now action because there is no one who needs to explain to me the history of racism that we have seen in
¶ Does the socialist label create a branding problem?
the state of Maryland. Like I said, Maryland is the home of redlining. We have watched more when you look at things like unfair appraisal values and historically red line neighborhoods. That has been one of the greatest wealth thefts that we have seen in our nation's history. And it was
born in Maryland that we have seen. How you know, when people talk with pride about the history of Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman, I'm like, yeah, but you do understand that there's a reason that Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman were born in Maryland and we now know their stories because some of the most creative and racist policies
in our nation's history were born in Maryland. You know, I am I am the first African I'm the first black governor in the history of the state of Maryland and only the third African American ever elected in the history of the United States as governor. And it is not because I'm only the third African American ever qualified
to be a governor. Like we have to be clear, there's a history to this, and so the reason, so the reason that I said the reason that I said that is this when I say, what is the work
¶ The racial wealth gap has cost the economy $16T over two decades
of repair? The work of repair for me does not require another two year study. The work of repair is things like what we did where we invested over one point three billion dollars in our states for HBCUs, which is a sixty percent increase than what we saw for
my predecessor. The work of repair is doing things like doing things like procurement reform, where we've now invested over eight hundred million dollars in black owned businesses in the state of Maryland and making sure we're giving a fair distribution of state dollars that are.
Going to black owned businesses.
¶ Why haven't reparations happened?
The work of repair is doing like what we did with our Just Community Initiative, where we put four hundred million dollars going to communities that have been historically that have been historically discriminated against through Jim Crow, through segregation, through mass and karcer The work of repair is doing
things like what I did. What I did last year when I pardoned over one hundred and seventy five thousand misdemeanor cannabis convictions in the stroke of a pen, which is the largest mass part in the history of the United States of America. That's the work of repair, and what I'm not interested in more studies. I'm interested in actually doing the work. And that's the message that I wanted to send.
I want to invite our friends at the Texas Tribune up so we can get ready for the Q and A portion here. But I'm going to do one more question to you, of course, the question that annoying people like me are going to ask you a lot between now and the filing deadline in New Hampshire. You have said, but you have said I'm not running for president in
twenty twenty eight. It is not your fault that none of us believe you, because no. I say this because I'm old enough to remember when Bill Clinton pledged to serve a full four year term and one election in nineteen ninety and he did not serve that full four year term. I'm old enough to remember when Barack Obama came on Meet the Press and said he's not running, and then six months later came on Meet the Press
and said, well, I've had to change of heart. So why should we believe you that you're not running in twenty eight.
¶ Redlining was one of the greatest wealth thefts in American history
Well, first, because I'm not, but.
But also you know what sherman esque means, right, Yeah, okay, you got sherman esque it. If you know, if nominated, you will not you will not accept it.
I am, And this is this is this is a very a very honest answer where I realize how much I'm playing with house money right now.
I am.
I'm probably the most improbable governor in this country. Where I'm I'm literally a person who watched my dad die in front of me when I was three years old because he didn't get the healthcare he needed. I'm a person who had handcuffed my risk by the time I was eleven. I'm a person who watched my mom, who was an immigrant single mom, not get her first job that gave her benefits until I was fourteen, not get a job that allowed her to work one job instead
of multiple jobs until I was fourteen years old. And I'm now the sixty third governor of my state, and I love my work. I love the fact that we have made Maryland has gone from being forty third in the country and unemployment to now going a year and a half of having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. That Maryland has had amongst the fastest
drops in violent crime anywhere in America. That Maryland now is the first day in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. That Maryland, that Maryland is now the first state in the country that actually has a playspation initiative to deal with the issue of generational concentrated childhood poverty. That we've been able to turn a deficit into a surplus and give the middle class a tax cut, like I am playing with house money right now, and so I, uh no,
it's a note. It's a note because I mean, I listen, I know that I've got I've gotten now four hundred and thirty six days before I go back in front of the people of my state and ask them for another four years. And it's asked that I take very seriously.
Actually, it's a little lesson that I think, right, AC. Yeah, that's right. That's till my next inauguration. View, that's right. Oh, listen, running back now, that's kind of running by my next inauguration. Yeah, I will see see the microphone to our friends at the Texas Tribune and we hear from you.
Cameron with the Texas Tribune, thank you so much for your great questions. First one USI and Pico from Austin asked,
¶ Why should we believe Wes isn't running in 2028?
what is one policy you support that the Democratic Party avoids.
It's interesting because I mean, like I I and I say, I say I say this. I say this in context where I was not the choice of the Democratic Party. You know, when I when I first ran for governor, I ran against three statewide elected officials, I ran against
two Obama Cabinet secretaries. I ran against the former head of the DNC, and like me, the one who had no political experience at all, And I laugh and I say, you know, when I told my family I was running for governor, I like, I had to convince my family to vote for me. And it's not that we're not cool, like we're cool, it's I had to convince many members of my family to vote. So I don't I don't really consider myself to be a creature of a party.
I mean I think about it this way, where you know where you know when you know over this process of this past year, for example, you know, when I was very clear to members of the Democratic Party in my state, we have a Democratic cousel and Democratic Senate, and I told the people of my party, I said, listen, if anything is sent to my desk that I believe infringes upon my executive authority or makes it harder for
my cabinet secrets secretaries do their job. If anything is sent to my desk that is an unfunded mandate, or if anything is sent to my desk that is a study or a or an eight year commission, I'm vetoing it. And I ended up vetoing more bills than any Democratic governor in the history of the state of Maryland by five x. So I actually think there's a lot of Democrats who would say that, well, he doesn't know what's align with a lot of things that we think are
priorities as a party. And frankly, I'm okay with that because I don't consider my self one who has to get put in a box when we talk about our policies. When people say, do you believe when you're addressing, you know, economic growth, are you pro business or are you pro worker? My answer is I'm not choosing that. I'm going to
make sure we're supporting our workers. That we've raised a minimum wage, that we've been able to add an apprenticeship and trade programs, that we have a permanent child tax credit and earn income tax credit. And I've done things like permit reform and regulatory form reform and made it easier for businesses to be able to come and grow.
We've incentivized businesses to come and choose and stay in the state of Maryland, because I believe if you believe if you have business growth and businesses choosing your areas, then that means more people are going to be hired, more entrepreneurs are going to be created, and you have more economic growth.
So I'm not choosing that.
I'm a person who believes we made the largest investment
¶ What is one policy he supports that the Democratic party avoids?
in law enforcement and made the largest investment in our community. And so I it's difficult for me to answer because I feel like so much of what I have done has not been a political orthodox and there is. I don't call a party leader to ask permission when I make decisions. I make decisions on behalf of what I think is best for my people, and you know, kind of let the chips call with their manage, right.
Samuel from Austin asks, how do we bring back by partisanship when the middle of the isle seems to no longer exist?
Thank you, Samuel, I would say this. I think the middle of the isle doesn't seem to exist in Washington, but I don't think that's actually real in communities and neighborhoods. I think the way you bring back by partisanship is you actually show up. I mean, I think about it
this way. Where you know, I remember on I think it was day two or day three when I was governor, I was I had a conversation with with a mayor of a town called Lonacone, which is all the way in western Maryland, and and he was telling me about a water crisis he was having and he was on a boilwater advisory. And when I was on the phone him, I said, you know, mister Merril, I'm on my way. And we headed out to western Maryland. And when I met him, Uh, he's become a good friend. A guy
named a Mayor Coleburn. When I met him, he said to me, he said, Governor, do me a favor. Turn three hundred and sixty degrees. So I turned three hundred and six degrees. And he said, the only guarantee I can give you is you ain't see a Democrat within five miles of anywhere.
You just looked.
And he said, he said, but I tell you what. Yeah, the first government has been here since nineteen ninety six, and we've continued to work together. We continue to work together. When Maryland, when we had historic floods in western Maryland, which the President of the United States denied all federal aid and federal lief to Western Maryland.
I the most republican part of the state.
Literally seventy eight percent of that part of that state voted for Donald Trump, and he left them behind. And he will not be forgiven for that. But I remember when I announced my reelection, Samuel that Mayor Coburn and several other Republicans from all around the state were the first ones to come out and endorse me. And they came out and they said, they came out and they said, listen, we might not agree with the governor and everything, but I'll tell you what. He shows up and he creates
a table that's big enough for all of us. And so the thing that I would say, how do you restore by partisanship is don't pretend that bypartisanship is dead. What we're watching this with this reality television show in Washington, DC, is not a reflection of our communities where people are just fighting for their people. They're just fighting to make sure that they're not left behind. And I think as leaders,
¶ How do we bring back bipartisanship when the middle doesn't exist?
the reason that we've been able to be successful in our state with both Democrats and Republicans is because I think the people of our state know that we don't get into the partisan games in the back and forth.
We just try to do good bye our people.
And that's why I think that you know you're watching at the state level that bipartisanship is very much alive and well.
John the parent of a UMD student asks, what is your message to those in their early twenties who grew up during COVID and are now watching the upheaval in this country's institutions.
Uh First, John, go TERFs, go TERFs.
You know, it's hard.
It's I feel bad for a lot of these students too, because for a lot of them, this measure of.
Chaos and uncertainty is for it's it's.
It's defining for them, and so I understand the frustration. I remember when I I actually gave a graduation speech to the University of Maryland two years ago. They actually they followed up by asking Kermit the Frog to give it the year after. I know how to feel about.
That, but it'd be harder to follow Kermit.
It would be hard to Actually, I'm glad it went before Kermit, actually, but I remember the speech that I gave to the graduates is probably the advice that I would give to John to UH, to your to your child is when people are telling you what you want to explore and what you want to study, you know, do you choose uh stem, do you choose life sciences?
Do you choose medicine? Do you choose humanities?
The advice that I would give them is as they're thinking about what is they want to do to prepare themselves for the rest of the world, is choose tough. Choose the thing that's going to force you to wake up a little bit earlier. Choose the thing that's going to force you to stay up a little bit later. Choose the thing that's going to force you to get out of your comfort zone and.
Stay there for a while.
Because the reason that I think I've been able to adapt in this moment is I think about my experience in the military, where you know, I joined when I was seventeen, I became an army officer by the time I was nineteen. I deployed overseas with a unit, and I led paratroopers with a unit that I actually joined
when they were already in theater. That part of my job was to try to get Tllybond members to try to leave and to join the Afghan forces and to turn their weapons and join this new Afghan government where no matter what the obstacle is that comes in front
¶ Message to people in their 20's watching the upheaval in institutions?
of me, Now I realized that I'm never going to flinch because we're just built differently. That was kind of forged out of us. And so when you have a generation that's coming out of COVID and then you have them now going into Trump and we have all these things that are happening. The only guarantee I can give to each and every young person inside of my state is challenges are on their way. I don't know what it's going to look like for you, but it's on
its way. And so the best preparation that I can give you to how to deal with it, no matter what it looks like when it actually comes your way, is choose tough now, because it's the best preparation that you're going to have when that tough thing ends up facing you, and that thing is going to learn that you're not going to lose sleep over it.
Make it lose sleep over you. If you could wave a magic wand would you have mandatory National service? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean it's the reason that we in Maryland. Maryland is now the first state in the country that has a service your option for all of our high school graduates, where every high school graduate now is a chance to have a paid year service and they.
Can choose however they want to do.
They can work, and they can serve veterans, they can serve in the environment, they can work with young people, they can work with older adults. The only thing we ask is tell us what makes your heart beat a little bit faster, and we're going to give you an opportunity to do it, a paid opportunity to do it. And I remember, you know, when I ran for governor, I had people who I serve with in the military
who came and campaigned on my behalf. Many of them were not Marylanders, many of them were not dem Crats, but they were literally just coming in door knocking and saying, I just want to tell you about the guy that I served with, because I'm just a big believer in this time of this political divisiveness, in this time of this political vitriol, that service will save us because service is sticky, and those who serve together will generally stay together.
So absolutely, I want to make.
Sure, and I would love it if every young person our society could spend a little bit of time being part of something bigger than themselves, learning how remarkable this country is and learning that that line between them and somebody else is not as thick as society wants us to believe.
That it actually is we got what two more?
And then we writer from.
Houston asks what do you believe is the best route for Maryland to overcome the significant redistricting roadblocks that have occurred in the last few months.
I knew the audience is going to ask about redistricting. I left it off.
I love it, and it's good to be in Texas, the home of this conversation in the first place. So I've just been very clear. And I know you know, uh, you know. Listen here here's what I know. Every state goes through this process every decade after the census comes out that determines whether or not they have fair maps. Right, and Donald Trump decided to start picking and choosing which states should go through this process mid decade.
Didn't He didn't call all of us. He called some of us to include y'all. I called y'all first.
And my only thing is this is that when you look at this idea that if other if states are going to go through a mid decade process of determining whether or not they have fair maps. I don't know why some states should do this and some states should sit on their hands. My point is this is that
¶ Support for mandatory national service?
you know and and and by the way. This is actually pretty consistent of what we have seen from Donald Trump, where you know, whether it's calling states and saying I need you to redistrict or whether it's calling election officials in Georgia and saying I need you to find me votes. It's just very clear that when he knows his he cannot win on policies. So what does he do. He
changes the rules, He rigs the game. And so my only point is this, and why I you know, I ordered a Governor's Redishing Advisory Commission in Maryland where we now have a bipartisan group led by one of our senators, Senator angel Alsobrooks, who's now leading a bipartisan group to actually go talk to people, to listen to people, and
then decide whether or not Maryland has fair maps. Because I am just I am very clear on this, and I'm hard set on it that if this country is going to go and if parts of this country are going to go through a mid decade process to determine whether or not they have fair maps, then so will.
The state of Maryland.
And and Donald Trump is not going to choose what our democracy looks like, the people of Maryland will choose what our democracy looks like.
And so our commission now is in place. They're already doing wonderful work. They're going to come back with their recommendations. But while we all can talk, you know, while we all can talk about a fair map process, I just
¶ Best route for Maryland to overcome redistricting roadblocks?
believe deeply that democracy cannot be a spectator sport. Democracy cannot be something where certain states are deciding and determining whether or not they have fair.
Maps that we need to go through. Our process says.
It needs to be a process that involves real people and revolves our input. And I'm excited for the fact that the state of Maryland, just like these other states, are going to move.
I will make sure.
That come next November, Maryland is voting with fair maps and we will have a representative democracy that actually reflects the wills and the hopes and the ambitions of the people of my state.
Last one, Dan from Austin, asks, what's your pitch to get people to move from Texas to Maryland?
And do you believe in your freedoms?
Do you now listen?
I mean I'm actually listening.
I really believe that lets start with the live music. They're going to want to know if you have good live music.
We actually have one of the best live music scenes inside the inside the entire country. And that's real talk Maryland. In fact, Baltimore is actually Baltimore. The Baltimore region has actually been ranked as one of the top live music scenes inside the country. But I know Austin y'all are up there too, But Baltimore is great. But I will say this in addition to the fact that, in addition to the fact that you know, they call Maryland American miniature for a reason, and it's because I don't care
what you tell me. You want to do. Tell me what you want to do. Do you want to go hike mountains? Do you want to go to beaches? Do you want to go to ballgames? Do you want to go see farmland? Tell me what you want to do, and I can tell you how to have a world class experience in Maryland within two hours. There's no place in the country like that. And the other thing that I would tell you why Maryland is so special, in Maryland is so unique. I really think Maryland is the
best place in the world to change the world. I really think Maryland is a place where we watch entrepreneurial endeavors grow and thrive. I believe Maryland is a place where we we actually respect people's freedoms and we respect people's histories. That Maryland is a place that we actually make sure that people have a chance to learn and
grow and be an inclusive society. That when Maryland, when we were watching a larger debate that was taking place around the country about things like reproductive health and reproductive rights, that in Maryland, what do we do. We actually made reproductive health part of Maryland's constitution so that no matter what the Supreme Court says in Maryland, we will protect that.
That when we watch places around the country that were banning histories and banning books and talking about what parts of history we were going to remember and what parts of history we were going to reflect, Well, what did we do in the state of Maryland? I very proudly sign legislation banning the banning of books. You cannot ban
books in my state. That we're talking about we're talking about a state right now that is beautiful and diverse and growing with one of the fastest job growth rates inside the entire country, with a state that is truly
¶ Pitch to convince people to move from Texas to Maryland?
the epicenter of life sciences in it, and aerospace and defense. That Maryland is the home of true national gems, likenists, the NIH, and military installations like Fort Meade, one of the largest military and veteran communities inside this entire country. That we have some of the best academic and some of the best academic measures inside the entire country, some of the best public schools inside of America. That we
are a place that invests inside of our future. And so I believe deeply, and it's not just because I
am biased. There's a reason that we are watching business after business come and choose Maryland because this is a chance for them to be able to grow and thrive, and frankly, for their employee base to know that you're not just going to have one of the best pipelines for higher education in K twelve employees, but also a place where your employee's visions and hopes for their future can actually be realized and their freedoms are going to be protected.
Let the record show he didn't mention Obay and Old Bay, Obay, crab Cakes Baltimore Orioles, Baltimore, Ravens. You do not be Is there anything you wouldn't put Old Bay on? Nothing? Olbay.
I think is actually the greatest spice because you can. Obay is breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert is true.
I had Obay ice cream. I'm telling you.
It'll change your life.
It'll change your life. That's why you moved to Maryland. Thank you Covin, Thanks your lu thank you everybody.