Interview Only w/ Ashley Trice & Rob Holbert - How a Free Alt-Weekly Became Alabama's Best Investigative Paper

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Thanks for having us, Chuck. We're excited to be here, glad to be here.

So, you know, I'm always curious how this got. Uh, you know, let's give me the origin story. How how did you come to be? I know that advanced media and Alabama dot Com. Al dot com has been a sort of the primary you know, the old mobile Press register and things like that paint a picture of the landscape and mobile and and what got you started in your origin.

Story got well, so I moved back from Austin, Texas, and I really while I lived in Austin. I really

So they combined there, they basically combined the Birmingham and mobile operations, all.

Of them together. So it really gave us the opportunity to step up hyper local coverage. We were more entertainment at first. Now we are really heavy on local news,

Give me the give me the revenue stream models. I mean, I know everybody works on a combination of advertising, membership. Are you a nonprofit or for profit? I ought to probably start for that.

We're for profit. We sort of have a hybrid model. The paper started off as a free paper, or as most all papers are. What we have done is our website. We've transformed that into sort of the daily paper. So if you want access to that is behind a paywall.

So Okay, well you.

Can still if you want the readers digest can you know, can readers digest version of the paper. You can still pick it up for free if you want daily you know, seven eight non stories a day that we're doing. You've got to pay for the paywall. So and it's been great. I mean, we we print is still our biggest revenue stream, but we can survive without the digital income either.

At this point, it's interesting that you say prints the biggest revenue stream because I've learned this as I've been doing I've spent about the last year or so trying to, you know, figure out, you know, what's you know it's this, is it scalable? What's something that could be done that could help sort of because you know a lot of these startups have hit you hit a ceiling, right and

Yeah, we're doing just once a week still, you know it is it's still as she said, it's still it's the biggest part of our revenue. But the daily the paper is daily at this point, and you know, we're sixty seventy stories a week online would probably as far as news stories, we're probably putting seven or eight of those in the papers. So there's huge difference in what people can read online versus what they're reading in the print version.

But there's no appetite I will tell you for us to become a daily printed product ever, right, that will not happen.

I mean, I mean there's not the demand for it, correct, And it's just.

The expense, is right, I mean, it's it's crazy. I mean, after payroll, it's our biggest expense and you know it, and finding a printer is even getting more and more difficult. I mean, there are two printers in the entire southeast that can do a publication like ourselves, kidding, So that's.

A big issue.

I mean, I think that's a huge issue for small newspapers, is right, printers. I mean I've often said that I think that the printers will be the biggest recent newspapers go away versus the Internet. Is printers fail.

There's just not.

Very many around and have very few options, you know, from here we're printing Baton Rouge right now.

We have the next option is outside Atlanta.

So my word, yeah, that's just yeah, you know, so having to deal with that.

On a daily with a daily publication, there's no way.

Yeah, let me go to something you still consider your in this day and age of independent media, Does alts mean anything anymore?

Well not to us, I mean, like we're still members of the Association of Alternative News Media, but we always feel like we're like the step children of it at this point. But I mean, especially since we are, I think everyone considers us the paper record here in Mobile Now I don't, I don't.

You're now the Mobile paper. And because the Press Register really is more of a state.

Wide paper, right exactly, so you know, I mean, and it was really important for us. I mean, one of our driving philosophies is not to take you know, a political lean to one side or the other. We want to be the paper for everyone, not just one side of the aisle. I mean, and we're in Alabama. I mean it would certainly probably be advantageous for us to be conservative, but we we thought we would. We don't

Try to well because I mean, look, let's be honest. You hear the words Alt Weekly, and there's an automatic assumption that it's super lefty, not just liberal right, super lefty.

I mean they are, yeah, they are. And it's I mean, we are always a sort of strange animal when we go to the conventions, but it's like, yeah, it is, you know. I think the big thing for us always, I mean, when we we wrote up our statement of principles to begin with, you know, just to sit down and say, like a big thing for us is to make a newspaper that people are dying to read, because then everybody's going to happen because you got to read it.

Ye at least like the you know, the county's biggest yam on the front page either were not paper either. So yeah, I think we were.

I think we were in the state's most aggressive investigative newspaper without doubt.

I mean you did. So we have been venturing into the Florida market a little because our next governor is

One of my favorite stories I've seen that ad. So I we have. You know, I'm probably given away too much, but you know, we we spent a lot of time on Pennscula Beach and they have this little cable access channel about sort of you know the area if you will. It's probably more geared towards I'm still struggling with this calling it the thirty A district. You know, I know that that's got it's become branded and like you know,

He is closer to between the bar and seaside. But yeah, our investigative reporter, though, has spent i mean hours going through all of the expenses, and you know, I mean it's pretty clear.

I mean, if you really follow the letter of the law, there ain't seven years there. And he kind of knows it, doesn't he it's pretty tall.

He can't, he won't, he won't address it. So it seems like a simple thing to me go away.

Yeah, is it done? I mean, if they've already allowed him to be on the ballot, right he is. His name.

Only only mechanism at this point is the court system. And I don't think that I do anything unless his competitor, Doug Jones also and the Democratic Party also files something along. He's got a editor, a Republican candidate that has filed something at this point, but they haven't really moved on it.

So yeah, I mean, I.

Think it's a done deal as far as you know,

I don't know. I don't know, you know, I don't think they love that.

I mean everyone just assumed. I mean, do I think you will be the next governor?

Yes, But I will tell you this, I look at one of those right in fact, I just.

People.

I always say this about governor's races, and it's true. In every state, no matter how red or blue it is, governor's races have more voters who take it more personally rather than ideologically. Like it's just there's a reason to get a Republican governor of Massachusetts at a fairly reasonable frequency. There's a reason to get a Republican governor of Maryland. There's a reason to get a democratic governor of Kansas, you know. And you get so close in a place

Want your governor to actually live in the state.

Yeah, there is that I I you know, and Doug Jones is no shrinking violet. I mean, if I expect that race to be under five points at a minimum.

I think I think we you know, we've had a pretty good history lately of of whoever the anointed one is South loses and that's.

Not quite a bit. And so you know, we'll see, we'll see.

I think it's gonna be a lot tighter than people

Oh, I think so too. I mean, you know, there's also just governor's races in general. When you've had one party more than a decade, there is just fatigue, you know, there is there's a little bit of fatigue, and then you throw in the national wins and the other you know, and the idea of there may be needs to be a check right, a check on on super majority power and things like that.

Coming home very inactive governor at this point, and so we'll see what happens.

You that's a that's a that's a very generous.

I'm being generous today.

The very generous description of the governor. You know, she's she's an enigma to me. I mean, she doesn't she's been pretty low key the entire time she's been there.

I think that would be also very generous.

I think that was her appeal though, because we had to come off you know.

A couple of scandalous things as well.

Yeah, gives us plenty to write about. So you know, we're.

I will say this, I'm going to miss that k Ivy pistol ad.

You know, yes, I think Tommy can probably match her in colloquialisms. We'll see. You know, he's got plenty of his sleeve.

It's interesting to me that it's the Auburn coaches that I'll want to run for office and not the Alabama Yeah. I mean, I mean, I assume burst Borough will run at some point. I mean, yeah, I want to go back to how you're so when so you start as an all weekly, the Mobile Press Register starts to sort of shift its focus, uh, and you start to add reporters.

I mean I think it was.

We started really dipping our toe into more investigative reporting and doing story I think people realized, even when we were a biweekly that we were doing stories that the Press Register wasn't doing. I thing really weird. We probably got a lot of people's attention was in a previous mayor's race that we really did a lot of reporing about some expenditure issues and going off to the city. And I think I had a big part of that mayor being replaced.

And establishing a little credibility.

Yeah, And I think that's really where And then you know, once they once the press resister said they were going to go three days a week, we just realized we've got to go weekly to be.

We're really filling the gaps.

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No, not at all. They don't do anything here.

Really interesting reporters here, I think that's all that's.

Honestly, don't even read it. It's rare that we even I mean, they're nice guys, but I just don't. It's rare that we It's very rare.

But everything they're doing is really stated.

They're really Birmingham Center, very Birmingham Center. They spend most of the time there, very little down here. It's very rare that.

They break that's sort of surprising to me. Isn't the fastest growing part of the state the Gulf Coast.

Yes, and which is right next to you know, is the fastest.

We could probably spend several hours of dissecting their whole plan. Ail dot com.

And is it still new house or did they get advanced?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, you know, it does. I think one of the most innovative UH local news sites going is an advanced media site in Massachusetts, mass Line. They've been incredible and and and they've been expansive and they've been though also a statewide focus, I think, but but.

You know, and it might work in other states. I mean mobile, I mean and I know every city likes to think of themselves as the speciality.

Sure there is sort of a coo. Yeah, but but in the South in general, where it's a little more parochial, right yeah.

And I think, I mean, we consider ourselves more closely related to New Orleans than we do Montgomery or Birmingham, you know. So yeah, I think along.

The right, I mean Mobile and Pensacola, Like I I you know, one of the things I've learned over the years, I worked at NBC and the Pensacola NBC affiliate is in Mobile, you know, And so it was you know

Right, yeah, I mean it's it's a we have a lot more in common with the coast. Along the coast, I mean, it really feels more like a similar state.

If you go New Orleans down to know more to I.

Mean, you probably could go start at the thirty A and go all the way to New Orleans.

Right And when they start talking about Montgomery and Birmingham things, no one cares down here, so you know it's I mean, they care, but you know, not as much.

As it's a there's a big political divide in the state, and it really it does feel like Mobile is often left out, and I feel like that's kind of the way it is this in media coverage from ail dot com. It feels very much like I'm not to beat on them. I mean they are, they are, They're just they've sort of said, sort.

Of done this area. I mean they rolled up the newspaper.

They've really they built a giant builtuilding a huge building and then just shuddered it right main corridor.

So one of the last big presses in the United States, the Mobile Press registered, I mean.

It was and then they just sold it for parts, strapped thing and just they don't have really very much.

It's not a big pro to them.

So one of my thesis and one of my beliefs is that the best way to sort of grow local news is through youth sports and local sports and high school sports. Tell me about how you guys cover that. Is it an audience builder or not?

Yes? And no, I mean you know it. I mean we have a full sports section and we focus I

Yeah, I mean, I think I think from the standpoint you know, the big issue for us is always trying to get more subscriptions, because that's really the lifeblood.

Where and what do you think grows subscriptions? What have you seen what works?

I mean, it's like.

It's something scandless happening in the rich.

Part of town.

Yes, that will okay, subscription, that's a little both little gossipy, right, Just get that to.

Happen every day with being great shape.

Yeah, yeah, scandals for sure. And stories animal stories, yes, it's always. But I mean and if no one else is doing it. Obviously, if we're having to compete with the TV stations for a story, I mean, you know, I mean it has to be something that only that we're the only ones doing it, you know, in which we have a lot of those.

So well, I was just going to say, you know, one of the I'm not one hundred percent familiar with, uh the ownership status of the affiliates and mobile, But with the next tr Techno merger that's coming, you're going to see a gutting of local. We're going to see another sort of consolidation gutting right in my hometown in Miami. We already have the duopoly is in effect, Clara, And so there's a which which affiliates are they?

In?

The NBC and ABC affiliates are clear.

And I didn't okay, I thought the NBC was Sinclaire. I didn't realize that that we're which is I guess

Well, they've cut their newsroom down to almost nothing in the weather personally.

I mean, I bring this up because I think it's an opportunity. Yeah, because you're going to see and you might even find you know, you might even find people that worked at those stations that might be great assets for you guys.

I think so because we really see ourselves becoming more of a full multimedia.

Not just you have to. I mean, I you know, even if you didn't want to, there's no choice, platforms demanded. I don't mean, I'm mean, I'll be honest. I don't always love that this podcast is video and audio. I just love the audio part. I'm an audio listener, but we couldn't grow without the video. Course.

Yeah, we're finding doing more of that.

It's helpful. You know.

The big issue is when we see what we've seen with subscription browth, it was going up up the plateau, right, we're plateaued.

And it kind of staying there.

The turn, of course is always you know.

In the yeah and so, I mean, one of the things for us that is kind of a unique problem is that we do give the paper away, and when we do pulling and surveying, it's we're our number one competition.

You know, you ask people why don't you subscribe?

We'll get it for free, And the second most popular answer, though, is I'm never going to pay for news because we have trained people for the last thirty plus years, not that they should never have to pay for.

News, although they always did pay for news put a quarter and used to put a quarter in that machine.

You know it is.

But those are the people that still subscribe. When we look at our age group of subscribers, they are the people who used to put a quarter in a machine, the people who can twenty years before.

So obviously getting readers under thirty, I mean, if you don't do it digitally, you're just not going to do it.

I mean we're you know, we're coming to do the TikTok.

You know, they turned into readers who are forty, who have houses and all those things.

Now I accept the premise that eventually people that I joke people will age into the demos. Just I used to reassure my bosses at it, you know, meet the press, I say, you know, look, there are there is a sense. When I was in my twenties, I curated my own news. Then you have kids, you have ball games you have to go to on weekends and all the extracurricular Suddenly I don't have time to curate my own news. I need somebody else. Sendbody else's health.

Yeah, that's that's the really I mean, the big thing, you know, the big part we're trying to like everybody

A day to remain and also you know, while also you know, we're constantly having to evolve with the technology, and of course AI is everyone has that. I actually asked chat GPT a couple of weeks ago. I was like, you know, I find you a really useful tool. I'm not scared of you, but are you going to uh what are you going to do to business? And it said, well, I'm not going to ruin it, but I probably will erode it.

And I was like, you know, it's interesting on that front. I I you know, I'm one of those if if you if you have a business that can get cannibalized, then you better do the cannibalizing, right, you know, if somebody if it's that vulnerable. But there's some things with AI that AI is never going to be able to replace, and that's live and in person. Right, what's the event situation look like? And do you guys is that becoming is that a big.

Do you.

Know what do you what kind of events do you do when you go to the event space and are they money makers?

Well, one of our biggest money makers of the year is our Reader's Choice Awards. That's a huge and that's still from all world, you know, that's still the best of in every all paper is still their biggest money maker.

And that's like whether it's doctors, that's it's about foreigners, burgers, right, all that stuff.

Right, if you come to mobile, you will see signs everywhere for Matthew Awards. Yeah, awards, and then they're just like it is. Yeah, it's ubiquitous. People love it. They got their banners hanging everywhere.

Yeah, I mean we're right in the middle of it right now. I mean it's it gets insane and pretty cut, right, but people trying to get other people disqualified for not being board certified and that kind.

Of thing stuff.

But it's still a big money maker, I mean, and that we have a huge ceremony.

Well, in some ways, I'm guessing these things, you know,

They are.

I mean, look, I use it to for doctor for finding, and I know better to do that because.

If I don't know, if I don't know who I'm looking for, I'll go to the finalist pick one of those, okay, you know, somewhat by the community. Yeah, and I've always been happy.

Yeah, so it does. It serves that first.

Yeah, I mean, but that's probably our you know, I mean we do a lot of like, uh, radio appearances and stuff like that, but not you know, as far as the public goes, probably the Reader's choice ceremony is the biggest one we do.

If you had a million dollar windfall for your budget, what what would you invest in.

About ten more investigative reporters.

Definitely more people's Definitely more reporters.

Yeah, that's what that's what makes I mean that's what gets loyalty and creates subscribers. It's great coverage. I mean, that is just it. It doesn't matter if we say, oh, you can have two years for free, or you know,

So how do you cover Montgomery and Washington? And how much? How how important our stories that impact Alabama in Washington, impact Mobile in Montgomery? And how do you I mean, do you have a bureaus, do you have bureaus? Do you have sort of freelance relationships.

We don't have a bureau.

We do cover Montgomery pretty heavily, and you know, we just try to keep up with what's going on.

It's sort of in session. You'll have a couple of.

And and things that are affecting us from there. As far as national stuff, you know, if it touches us, we tend to we do something with it. I mean, certainly things like coal, ash and EPA and things like that that are around here. We cover a lot of that. But I mean, are we you know, we don't try to get into the whole day to day Trumpton thing is I mean.

Sure, right, people have enough places to find.

That, right, No, I guess I'm just thinking more of well, I mean, I mean I was surprised did Pensacola beat out Mobile for a shipbuilder contract recently? If they did, okay, because there was something that's coming to Pensacola. And I thought Mobile built our ships and then once they were built, they hung out in Pensacola. I thought that was the relationship the two cities had with each other.

We are currently dismantling one that we we were, We are the s s U y.

Yeah, we're supposed to.

Dismail and then we're sending the US over to Fort Walton to make a read.

Yeah no kidding, that'll be.

Yeah. Yeah.

That was in you know what New York?

What what is growing in bill I mean we.

Have airbus here, you know.

So that's I mean, that's right, that's a big it's.

A big ship building that's brung a lot.

I twoured that hostile plant. That's an impressive facility.

They've kind of flipped from just being aluminum based.

Ships to now with steel and so they changed quite a bit, but I mean Airbus behind to Loose, France were the largest, you know, aerospace manufacturer in the world.

It's growing tremendously. That is, that's become a big thing.

Lot, oh I know. I mean my my nephew went to South and we actually looked at it with my son before we ended up going somewhere. I was just blown away and how big the campus is. This felt like a felt like an old fashioned land Grant University campus. There was just land really is.

Really grown and it scut you know. I actually went to South and it felt like you were going to college at a shopping center because quite literally, that is.

Not what it felt like when we toured. My goodness, years later it is.

It feels, it feels great, it's I'm proud of it.

I went to.

Spring Hill, you know, right down the street, and I came here in eighty five and with the South.

And just thought, what is this.

It's like treats out there and things, and now I don't want for eleven years anyways.

You know which in Florida and South Florida, I used to you know, feel that way about FIU FAU U c f U S if they were all commuter schools, they were all these sort of little okays, but they were just sort of well, I didn't get into Florida, Florida State or Miami and you know, well not anymore. And it feels like South's that same way. You see that there and probably Troy too, right.

Yeah, yeah, they're really blown up a lot. So that's that's really a big area. But the the medical is really going, uh, they're really trying to push. They really

Of course, the port too, got about the port that one's a bait when we have the deepest port on the Gulf of Mexico and now right thought about that. But we've been fighting over what they do with the dredge sopoils that come from that because they go dump it into bay and that makes everyone who loves the fishing around here a very unhappy sit right.

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Oh yeah, I mean, look, one of our big investigative pieces that we did is Alabama power dumping coal ash right now to the Delta, which is called America's Amazon. It's got the most biodiverse, you know, waterway system in the entire country. And you know there's no political will to make them stop doing it. But you know, and you would think here in conservative Alabama it'll be oh, that's just a bunch of tree hugging hippies trying to

And and it's people who are not in office are united against it.

Yeah, those who are not getting campaign contribution. Yes, I'm curious the how much the other independent media in the region. I think about my friend Warick Sabing Deep South today. I'm sure you guys are familiar with what they're what they're doing in Mississippi and Louisiana, and I think they want to expand Arkansas pretty soon. Do you do any of these? Is there a is there formalized networks that you think would be helpful to you guys?

I think it would be helpful, but we don't. I mean, you know, I think the last time I made all of those Veen calls, I was like, hey, you're having a problem with our print or who do that?

Right? Right?

That it's just that, right, Yeah, I think it's just one of those things. Everybody's too busy.

And yeah, well that's the sense I've gotten. It's like you could all use a lot. There are a lot of things that could be helpful in a scalable or a network effect. The problem is you just you know, like any startup, you know, you don't have time.

You're taking the card all the other stuff.

You know. It's like, I mean, you know, it's it's a it's a small business. You're busy everything, and it's it is hard. I would love to sit around and have and shoot a fact with these people and exchange ideas and think about ways we could help one another.

But and even when that.

Does occasionally come across radar iteverably comes to provision, right. No.

I you know, I've been involved with these various summits in different states, and there's a lot of do gooders out there. And I mean that in the best sense of the word, right, whether it's the Night Foundation, whether it's MacArthur and Press Forward and what they're trying to do, and a few other but it is it is hard. I think because you guys are too busy. Yeah, I mean to sort of fully take advantage of those resources.

I mean it's we're non stop on.

If somebody says, okay, let's stop what you're doing and let's spend three weeks training this on this.

And what.

What?

What have you learned about Google ads network and small

Well, we did have a man walk up to the door yesterday and say he was sick of using that and he he was going to try try us to get in it.

So I mean, I mean, I hear this anecdotally all the time, right that the small business is are like, you know this automated stuff. I don't know who to deal with. I don't know who to talk to when you have an issue, and they sort of miss having an ad sales rep. I mean, to be totally, we do a lot of.

The digital advertising for our clients now, so that's one part of you know.

Well that's interesting. Like you so a business comes to you and says, hey, we want to penetrate the entire region, and you will place ads beyond just what's in yours of Facebook and Google it.

You know, we have a far we have far more Facebook friends than they do. And so you know what we're selling ads, whether it's a print ad, there's going to be a digital that comes with that, and we've packaged.

All that stuff and then we boost it and I'll do all that.

I mean, were is someone who just wanted to do digital.

Most people want to do print, and that did some digital with it, and then they can and think, Okay, I'm handling all this stuff and I don't have to talk to Google or Facebook and all that. Yeah, that's been sort of our solution to it is is to be a one stop shop for them a little bit and help them in that regard.

We advertisers love that.

Yeah, well, somebody to deal with and somebody else is going to navigate this mess and you guys have to become experts in it because you're trying to spread your own brand and do all those things. So that that seems like a really I assume that's a pretty good that's that's helped your advertising that you're also a vendor.

Yeah, I mean, and we're not. I mean, we we are very aware that print will go away at some point. I mean, and we would all still like to eat for a few more decades around here, So we are we're trying to be nimble.

So you know, I'm I'm I'm starting to be convinced that maybe print never he dies because we're seeing it. I mean, you know, the to watch the plateauing of digital books right and independent bookstores are thriving around this country now. They've been very event driven. I'm very friendly with an independent bookstore owner and he and he'll say, if we didn't have events, I wouldn't have anybody browsing.

Yes, yeah, but you know, I think that there's still I would agree with you completely. I do think that there's there's a level at which print may go down. But I do think that there will still be print for some length of time, maybe forever.

I don't know.

I think you know, it is just becomes less and less. I mean, the Internet becomes less believable every day. And you know, there is that tangibility, there is this this isn't fake well, I mean.

Even I mean I think that's true with advertisers too, but I mean I see it with our own reporters. It means more to them when they have their words in print.

Ye. Well, And the thing is, we're all learning and cognition stuff. Right What you read physic tangibly you remember better than what you read on a screen.

Yeah, it's I think there's still room for it. And we you know, we're seeing growth this year in print sales are are going up again. We've had I think we're on pace for our best years since twenty nineteen right now.

It's interesting, that would be that would be good. You have any specific reason.

You think it's adjustments and hiring. We got somebody in gotcha really help and a.

Sales manager, somebody who used to be a TV station and you.

Understanding, No, I think there's going to be a lot of those. Uh. On those opportunities, we'll get you out of here.

On that.

You're in a community. I love them, I love visiting. We get over there a reasonable amount. Although I love my little pen I love my little Pensacola community, and we're I feel like we're twin cities right where, these twin little Gulf coast cities, and I feel like Mobile and Pensacola. You know, It's funny you tell people. I tell people who don't know the Panhandle very well, they just make an assumption based on the you know, And I'm like, now, these coastal cities are just they're different,

I will tell you why. I mean, everyone has their own political beliefs, but we all live together down here, and we know that someone who might votes differently than you might would probably come and change your tire if you needed it, or would come and help, you know, bring you a casse role if your grandmother dies. And

I think it's the coastal nature as well. You know, it's just the fact that people are coming in and out and who are from different places.

And you know, you've got a little more transient.

Yeah, it's transit. I mean it's Cola for sure. I mean there's a lot more with the with all.

The base we have, all these international companies here. I mean, we've just got a very diverse population.

There are a lot of people here who've been somewhere else. Unfortunately, for a lot of places that's.

An elspare in the state, it's not like that as much.

So yeah, well it's.

Great to get to know you guys. And like I said, you know, I'm a I'm a part time you know, not not part time enough to get any of the advantages that your next governor takes advantage of. Bye by you know, by.

Being wondering mobile right downtown to the line and stop, will go get somebody.

Well, absolutely well. Good to get to know you. And where can people find your stuff, find your work?

You can find us at lean outmobill dot com which is l A G N I A P p embill dot com.

There it is uh great to get to know you, Ashley rob Thanks for the time.

Thanks appreciate it.

You got it.

M