Welcome to this episode of the Chief Psychology Officer with Dr. Amanda Potter, the Chief Psychology Officer herself. I'm Angela Malik, and today we are exploring the research behind leading with executive presence. Thank you, Angela. So there are many aspects of successful leadership. Why are we focusing on executive presence?
So executive presence is a little bit like the dark science of leadership, and it eludes many leaders. So many people that I've coached at a senior level want to have presence. They want to have this thing called executive presence, because they want to have a positive impact on their team, on their colleagues, on their organization, and have a lasting impression, but they don't know how.
Yes, it's something that it seems everyone wants it, but no one's quite sure what it is. I think this is going to be an excellent episode to explain that. So tell me, Amanda, is it something that's dichotomous, something you either have or you don't?
I wondered that actually, and that's how I started the research. So Back in 2015, we asked exactly that question. We interviewed 196 leaders and asked them, what is executive presence? Is it something that you have or don't have? What are the characteristics of executive presence and can it be developed or coached? And so I would love over the series of this podcast to share all of that research.
I know we have a white paper on the Zircon website entitled Inspirational Leadership and Executive Presence. What was the trigger for we researching and writing about executive presence for that paper?
As you know, Angela, for the last 15 or so years, I've been working as an executive coach. And very often I'm hired by the organization to work with one or more of their senior leaders.
And so many times the request has been to help them develop their presence, to help them have greater impact, to develop their charisma, their gravitas, and to make sure that they are listened to as leaders and to develop their level of inspirational leadership and so I was thinking so what exactly is inspirational leadership what does it mean to be inspiring and how does that differ from executive presence so I really wanted to understand the difference between the two and that was really the
starting point of the research.
So I suppose then you set out to define what executive presence is which must have been tricky because it's such an elusive topic what does the published literature say about executive presence?
Well Well, that's such a good point because there are some published papers looking at executive presence, but actually they don't necessarily align. For example, one of the pieces of research by Hewlett and colleagues in 2012, they assessed 268 senior executives and they had quite a simple model. They said that executive presence really consisted of gravitas, communication and appearance, which makes sense, of course.
But I was really interested in the psychology behind executive And is the Hewlett
piece the only research on executive presence, besides our
own, of course? So there are a number of studies. In fact, when we were looking at the research, there were as many as 80 different terms that are used to describe a leader with presence. And some of them also used to describe inspirational leadership. So that's why I think there's a little bit of confusion between the two.
Yes, as we were saying before, it's such an elusive topic and really difficult to nail down what exactly it is. Do you have an answer to that, Amanda? What is executive presence?
Once we'd conducted the research, we realized that There is a difference between executive presence and inspirational leadership. And whilst I'm not going to focus on inspirational leadership in this podcast, and we'll cover it in another podcast, executive presence was really about expressing ideas with conviction and having a really strong ability to engage people and having a significant impact on their colleagues in the process.
And actually, a long-term client and friend, Craig Wyment, was one of the interviewees because he was a senior leader. And he said that someone with executive presence stands out amongst their peers and colleagues and has gravitas at all levels of the organization. He also went on to say that they communicate in a way that is impactful, but it's intangible and hard to measure, which is why so many of us keep talking about it. And he said it's both substance and style.
And I think each of those little statements, I think, are really good at really describing what we're trying to articulate with executives. And
is there any way you can summarize your own research and thoughts on executive presence into something more conclusive then, given it's such an elusive definition?
with a strong sense of self-belief and confidence. So quite a lot, actually. How fantastic if you could have all of those things. Absolutely.
I mean, gravitas, magnetism, et cetera, all of those feed into being influential.
Absolutely. People who have executive presence and have each of these very distinctive combinations of characteristics are more influential, more impactful than those who don't.
These all sound like highly successful sought after qualities and characteristics for today's leaders.
These are very much helpful for that short term in the moment impact that help you to get listened to, that help you to make a positive impression and leave a lasting impression too. Leaders and individuals with executive presence are able to influence, to engage and to drive ideas into an organization in a really positive and impactful and powerful way.
So So in your research, Amanda, were you able to break down executive presence into aspects or factors like some of this other research had done? Yep.
So we identified five aspects of executive presence in our research. Ooh, the big five. Let's hear them. I love the fact that you answered, ooh, the big five, Angela, because we always talk about the big five in personality. And we were talking about that in the last podcast we recorded, which was the Strengths and Personality podcast. But yes, you're right. It is, ooh, the big five of executive presence. So what is the first one? So the first one is charisma.
People who have executive presence very often have charisma. And that means that they are captivating, they're charming, and they are able to communicate beliefs and ideas with clarity and therefore have a long lasting impact. But even more importantly, is that they ask questions and they show interest in other people. So it's not just about them sharing information. It's It definitely makes
sense that charisma is at the top of the list. I think generally, if you're asked about inspirational or in this case, people that you know with executive presence, charisma tends to be
the first thing you think of. It came up so much in the research that people who have executive presence that you're drawn to and you want to talk to and that you enjoy that conversation with them because it's a proper dialogue. It's a two-way conversation. conversation. It isn't just someone talking at you or espousing their beliefs and their ideas and just talking in a monologue. It's a true conversation, but they're very charming and engaging and witty and interesting in that conversation.
So what's the next one, Amanda? So the next one is confidence. So leaders with executive presence show up with confidence and they have self-belief. They have a positive view of themselves and their future, and they have a very strong sense of their self-worth and the value that they bring to a team or to an organization. And so that belief in themselves means that they don't question themselves or their capability and they don't look at the negative things.
They focus on the possibilities and the opportunities. So their language as a result is very positive and forward looking.
And by believing in themselves, they automatically persuade others to believe
in them too. But they couldn't do it without the third thing, which is credibility. Credibility is about being accomplished, knowledgeable and wise. We need need to be able to talk about an area of expertise that we are knowledgeable in. If we start blagging it and talking about something that actually we know nothing about, we undermine our level of executive presence.
So interestingly, even though you said how fabulous that charisma is at the top of the list, the one that's actually foundational is credibility. If we don't know what we're talking about, we just completely will undermine our executive presence. People will just stop trusting us.
So where does that leave us in with charlatans because you've got these incredibly charismatic charming individuals who are able to speak with confidence and come across as credible even if they absolutely are not credible
that's a very good point and that helps me to differentiate between executive presence and inspirational leadership actually because the characteristic that was the most important in inspirational leadership was integrity and authenticity and honesty and so in order to be an inspirational leader you need to lead with integrity so you need to be honest as I say and the messaging needs to truly be aligned with their personal values and what's important to them and the organization and the thing is
with executive presence whilst there's five characteristics you may not have all of them and credibility and knowledge is absolutely key I think with charlatans I think they're kind of faking it till they make it aren't they they're spinning a good story eventually they get found out hence the term charlatan we get there in the end but in Initially, they might be able to fool us with all of the other characteristics, the charisma, the confidence and the other two we're going to come to.
But eventually, I think we get there and we realize.
So we've got the three C's, let's call them charisma, confidence, credibility. What are the last two?
So the last two are gravitas and power. So leaders with executive presence have gravitas.
And that means that they are able to capture and retain the interests of colleagues with real ease, which means that they become quite impactful and influential and bold but they're also powerful which means that they are assertive and clear they take command of situations and they deliver pitches or presentations with a conviction that real sense of I'm in control I'm in command you need to listen to me this is worth listening to
so many leaders both existing and aspiring want to have executive presence it's clearly seen as a really important attribute would you say it's a necessary prerequisite to being an effective leader some
people say that it is critical for effective leadership but I actually disagree I don't think it's critical I think it's fabulous if you have executive presence and it most certainly would help but our research has found that you can be an inspiring leader and not have executive presence however if you have both clearly it's helpful because it means that you are in inspiring leadership terms able to create a vision create for check in with your colleagues and create the momentum through creating
excitement for the future. And with executive presence, which is all about power, gravitas, charm and impact, you're more quickly able to grab the attention of your colleagues and get them on board. Without executive presence, it just takes that bit longer to be inspiring because it takes longer to convince people that this is the right way forward and that we should be going on this journey together.
So again, As executive presence, it helps establish that credibility and trust with the team more quickly. And I suppose it also helps with decision making, leadership success and driving performance.
I mean, that point you're making is really true. Executive presence does help to establish credibility and trust more quickly. Unless, of course, to your point, Angela, they're a charlatan. And you can very quickly see if someone is, as Julie Lee would say, fur coat, no knickers, when they're all style and no substance. And so executive presence is both the style and the substance. You need to be able to charm, but also know what you're talking about.
And so if you have got the style without the substance, we will see through it quite quickly. And to your second point, Angela, it does help with decision making, leadership success and driving performance, because if you think about those characteristics of confidence and power, they're able to articulate and message more clearly than those people. who haven't got executive presence and therefore are more likely to get heard than those people without executive presence.
What if we don't have it? How does the research play out with those who do not have executive presence?
for us to all understand how we impact, how we interact and how we engage with our colleagues and to understand how we can improve our level of presence.
So thinking about how elusive executive presence is and yet how important it is, what proportion actually of leaders have executive presence?
So quite a low proportion of people have met at least one person with executive presence in the last 10 years. Interestingly, as an aside, 3% of those questioned had met 10 leaders with inspiring leadership characteristics in the last 10 years, which is incredibly damning. So a really small proportion have met a large number of leaders with inspiring leadership characteristics. And
I wonder if you asked the participants whether they themselves thought that they had executive presence or were inspiring leaders.
Very insightful, Angela, because we did. And what was amazing is most of them thought they had executive presence and most of them thought they were inspiring. And I can't remember the statistic off the top of my head, but it was in the 60s or 70s. So there was a shocking and significant difference between the two.
So essentially, everyone thinks they have executive presence, but no one seems to know anyone else with executive presence.
Yeah, and the same with inspiring. It's really hard to articulate it or see it in others apparently, but most of us want to believe that we are inspiring and that we have presence. And so we have some beliefs about it which help us continue going to work every day. We want to believe it, don't we? We want to believe that we're inspiring, that we have presence.
It sounds like it's very rare indeed to be both an inspiring leader and have executive presence.
Absolutely, so a really small proportion. And actually the characteristics are quite lofty. They're quite tough characteristics to actually demonstrate as a leader. And the truth is you're not going to demonstrate all of them. In fact, we found that there were six characteristics of inspirational leadership that we will cover on the next podcast, Angela. And in combination, you're probably going to find that you'll be strong on seven or so of those 11 characteristics in total.
All of us fall short on a few of them.
So you said earlier that many believe that executive presence cannot be taught, but that you disagree?
We built a inspiring leader product, which of course, within the B talent range that we've been selling over the last few years, which assesses the six characteristics of inspirational leadership and the five characteristics of executive presence. And we use this only in coaching. It's not particularly suitable for recruitment. It's more of a coaching and facilitation tool. And what we have found is that it's incredibly helpful insight, but actually the coach is incredibly helpful.
And it's very much different for every person. So it's not a one size all coaching approach when it comes to inspirational leadership executive presence, because it depends on the characteristics that the person is either fabulous in or is potentially falling short in. So
that
leads
nicely into my next question, which is what is your secret formula for coaching executive presence, Amanda? So there really isn't a
secret formula other than being led by the 11 characteristics of inspirational leadership and executive presence. And so I'm working with a female leader at the moment who is really struggling to have impact in meetings. And she really worries about her messaging. She really worries about her preparation time. And so she works very late into the night, the day before a big meeting, and often gets very little sleep because she's spending so much time prepping.
And so we've been talking about about how can she go into those meetings and be much more impactful in those meetings and engaged in those meetings. So we've talked about the way in which she turns up, the conversation she has with her colleagues around the room when she first arrives, rather than just sitting down and reading her notes.
We talked about her asking questions and creating personal connection with her colleagues around the coffee or the tea area and remaining standing as long as possible so that she's talking to people as they keep arriving rather than just again sitting down and looking.
She also is someone, because she gets so nervous and so anxious about her presentation if she's in the boardroom, that she tends to go over her notes and re-memorise what she wants to say and check out her notes rather than listening when other people are presenting.
So I've asked her to listen, make sure her body language is alert and attentive and to consider what the other person is saying and make notes about it so that that she can connect what she is going to present back to them and that she should use their names when she's doing so, so that when she's presenting, she can say, and Robert said, if there was a Robert in the room, and connect with what Robert is saying to show that she's been listening.
So it's all about remaining alert, attentive, asking questions, showing curiosity, having alert body posture, integrating her story with theirs. And I've also said she needs to go to bed earlier because she needs to stay fresh the next day because she gets exhausted if it's an afternoon meeting because she's just so committed and so hardworking. It looks like she's actually not committed because she's looking exhausted, but actually she cares so intensely that she's trying too hard, if you like.
So it sounds like with those tips, you are sort of connecting back to those five factors of executive presence. We've got connecting with people. So you've got charisma and credibility in a sense.
She's establishing credibility by making those connections actually listening and then commenting on what others are saying in the meeting because of that connection then she's able to state her own positions or present her own ideas and have people connect with that as well the body posture is again down to power gravitas showing confidence so all of those factors charisma confidence credibility gravitas power seem to be reflected in your your tips for her to improve her executive presence
and it's working great for her we've had some fantastic feedback from her that actually her messaging is much clearer she's much more confident she's still going to bed too late frankly old habits die hard exactly she still cares intensely but actually what she's finding is people are listening to her more and she's feeling like she is someone who should be in the room and should have a voice so really simple very easy tips that are very much driven by the gaps that she was presenting but link
back to the concept of executive presence.
Well, thank you, Manda, for giving us some great insight on the difference between executive presence and inspirational leadership and on defining what is frankly a very elusive term, executive presence. You're very welcome. If our listeners have any comments, questions or suggestions on what we've spoken about today, or if you'd like further information about Be Talent and our Inspiring Leader questionnaire, please go to betalent.com.
Thank you, Angela. and thank you everyone for listening and for rating our podcasts. I hope you have a lovely day.