Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the strategies that make an impact. Let's get started.
Welcome back to the chemical show. We are wrapping up our interviews for the month of March, which had been featuring women executives And today's guest is really about the big M's Money and mindset. So I've today I've got Audrey Fost with me. She is a financial powerhouse Dedicated to empowering women entrepreneurs and women overall with clarity and confidence in their finances a CFO financial business coach and a bestselling author of She Grows Rich.
helps ambitious women master their money mindset and financial strategies to scale their business profitably, to feel secure in their financials and more. And Audrey is on a mission to help women achieve financial independence by making smart, empowered money decisions. While Audrey primarily works with women entrepreneurs, in fact, that's how I got to know Audrey. We were in a digital class together. I find that her messages are so critical for corporate women as well, right?
For women in industry, we're already going against some norms, whether it be as an engineer, as chemist, as leaders in the chemical industry. There's a lot of societal biases as you and I both know around women in. roles around women and money and more. when you're the primary earner, which many women across the industry are. Right? I know for myself when I was at Shell and I remember the first time a boss said, Oh, well I just assumed your husband was senior to you or whatever.
Oh no, you know, I've always the financial driver in the family in many ways from an earning power perspective. And most women executives are as well. And it's something that we're a little bit blind to at times, but the reality is we shouldn't be blind to it. We shouldn't be uncomfortable with it. Men make money, women make money. We all need to master our money and mindset more effectively.
So Audrey's going to clear the air on some of these topics and give us some insights that we can apply immediately. I'm also going to be linking in the show notes and on our website Audrey's book, She Grows Rich, which is, will be in the show notes and on our website so that you can get a copy for yourself because I think you're going to enjoy it. Audrey, thank you for joining me today.
Hi, Victoria. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely.
too. So your career, and you share some of this in your, um, in your book, She Grows Rich. I know when I read your opening chapter, I was like, wow, you're really open about where you came from and where you are and how you got here today. can you share some of that with us in terms of just what your career and what your mindset is and how you've evolved to where you are today?
Thank you. Um, yeah, so I grew up, in a lower middle class family. We didn't have a lot of money and my dad. Was the breadwinner in that family. My mom, was in a marriage that, um, my dad struggled with some mental health issues. So she felt like she was. She's stuck in a marriage and she couldn't get out. she had always said to me, make sure you can always, make sure you can always support yourself. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And
when you're a kid.
right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, mom. Okay, mom. But you know, and as a kid, you really don't even know what that means. I wasn't great at school, at high school, and, you know, I was like, at first, and I talk more about that in my book, I didn't go to college out of school, I struggled in school, and at first I was like, well, yeah, I'm just, I'm just going to get a job, no problem, right?
Fast forward, I'm in my 20s, I got married, I'm in my 20s, I have two kids, and Daycare is not affordable to me. I'm working odd jobs and trying to make ends meet. And my husband had started his own business at this time. And I found myself in a position. I learned how to, I had took a, done a training course and learned how to do tax returns. I was working for a tax prep company and I remember doing my own tax return and I was super.
Like I'm doing my tax return after work and put in all the numbers and hit, calculate. And I got this huge refunds, right. And I was like, wow, why am I getting, this is a big refund. It's not what I expected. I'm like, Oh, maybe I did something wrong. And I'm like, looking at all the numbers. Well, here, what had happened is I had qualified for what was what they still have. It's called a. Earned income tax credit.
So for those people who are on the poverty line, the government gives you money back in addition to what you paid in, in taxes. And that was the moment I realized like, Oh my gosh, this is where I'm at. I need government assistance. That year we were, we were making 24, 000 a year trying to support a family of, of four, two, two young children. And that moment literally brought me to tears and shocked me into changing as well because I was like, this isn't what I want for my kids.
This isn't what I want for myself.
Yeah.
my mom's words. You should be able to support yourself. You make sure you should, you can support yourself. We're echoing in the background because at that moment, I couldn't, I couldn't even like help support the family barely. And I definitely couldn't support myself.
Now, I was married, I was happily married, I'm still married to the same man today, but, having that, oh my gosh, what if something happens, or what if I turn out in the same situation as my mother, and just, she was very unhappy her entire life, struggling with my father's issues. Like, I don't want that for myself. Like, I grew up in that. That's, that's not what I want. And, yes, that was the beginning of my story.
you,
Yes.
a lot about transition, so that was a huge transition cause then you, you went to school. Is that right?
Yeah, not immediately, because I had to figure out how to make some money first. But, like, just to support the family, I ended up working a little bit at Vanguard, and that's where I learned a little bit about investing. And they had a evening shift. But once we were able to get a little bit more of a footing, then yes, I went back to school and got my accounting degree, then even went on and got my MBA. But, I definitely had in the back of my mind, I need to be able to support myself.
And I didn't even, like I said, when I was young, I didn't know what that meant. I didn't even know what that meant.
And
until you
faced you.
Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm like, okay, I'm right where she told me not to be.
So how did you go from that point of kind of a crisis point, and a big realization point to where you are today? Because today you're, financially well set, you support yourself, you support your family, and you help others master their money and their mindset.
yes. So fast forward 27 years, through my growth and work I've done. I've done a lot of work around became a certified neuro coach about four years ago, four or five years ago. I've have an accounting background. So I've been, you know, I went back to school for accounting. And I've been working with small businesses pretty much my entire career. When I brought in the neuro coaching, I was, I started seeing all the mindset stuff like
Yeah.
into play. And in my book, she grows rich. I talk about like the mindset, how tackling that is the first part of it. And. We bring all of our mindset from our childhood, and it's kind of funny as you, like, realize, like, what you bring forward. Not only did I bring the mindset of you should be able to support yourself, which is a good thing and shocked me. But then there's also things I brought with me, like, um, making money is hard that I reprogrammed.
And, I didn't have this one, but a lot of my clients had a judgment against rich people, like greedy, selfish, mean, and all of those different mindset things, will affect your wealth and affect how you can grow your wealth.
No, I was just going to say, I think this is a good segue in terms of just talking about like really like what is money mindset? Funny as it says, how should the people be thinking about money mindset? Because I think often, and I think a lot of people that listen to my podcast would say, you know, I'm fine. My money is fine. Or maybe they would say no money is not fine, right? Because we all have different worries along the way.
The number one thing I hear from people, people, very successful people, very, financially settled people is, well I'm working to pay for insurance. And as an entrepreneur who has been on her own for eight years now, I'm like, listen, that's actually not that hard. You need to get past that mindset. You don't need to work for the insurance. You, my friend can afford the insurance.
So there's something else going on, but let's talk maybe about mindset and how do we understand our mindset and I guess what do we do about it?
So you brought up a funny point where a lot of people think they don't have any money mindset. I can tell you, I hear that all day long. My money mindset is fine. So I have a few questions that I ask, that dive into your subconscious and your conscious money mindset may be completely fine. But I have a couple of questions that I ask, they're in my book too, and you have to answer them within the first, like, second, like, 2 seconds, it's like word association.
I had someone who came to one of my workshops where I asked those questions. She came in and she said, oh, my money mindset's good. I've been working on it for years. And the, if you have a negative answer to those questions, it means you have. Something in your subconscious and there's five questions that I asked that day. I have more than that, but
Okay.
there's five in the book and I asked those five.
So
Um,
give us the five?
I will, I'll give you a couple. I'm not going to give you all five,
Yeah.
But she ended up having a negative answer for every single one of them,
Wow.
she thought that her money mindset was good, and she was shocked. She was like, are you kidding me? And I'm like, yes, because you worked on your mindset at the conscious level, not at the subconscious level. And our subconscious runs 95 percent of our thoughts every single day. and we have 80, 000 of them.
Okay. So you're going to put me on the spot,
I'm going to put you on the spot. Don't worry, because most people have two out of the five questions, I'm going to ask you the most popular two, um, that they have negative answers. Most people have at least, at least two,
Okay.
um, that they have negative answers. So I'll ask you the first one is making money is.
Fun.
Okay, good. The next one is rich people are.
Aspirational.
Okay, look at that. You got a pretty good one.
I would also say, I'm going to couch that and say that's a bit of my, maybe more my conscious than my subconscious, because I also think there's this aspect of rich people are and arrogant maybe, and,
Well, yeah, that's so you did think a little bit. I did notice that. So the trick is not to think. And I know I put you on the spot and we're on a podcast. So some people don't always like to share their negative answers, but we'll go with that.
to. I would, you know what, it's, I mean, making money, it's fun and it's hard.
Yeah.
there's hard work that goes into the process, right?
So let me explain.
right, money doesn't grow on
Grow on trees. Yeah,
looking outside my window right now. I see a tree. Money's not growing on that tree. It'd be nice though. Yeah,
this is where it comes in like I had making money as hard That was one of the ones that I had to reprogram Because I can remember back to my childhood and my mom used to always say we work hard for our money and My brain interpreted that that you have to work hard for your money
yeah,
What did that equate to? A workaholic. That, that's what I turned into, you know, because I wanted a lot of money. So I thought the only way to get a lot of money is to work harder and harder and harder. So that was one of the ones that I needed to. Reprogram in my brain. So yeah, so and you know, I've seen rich rich people are greedy, rich people are mean rich people are selfish. And the media does an amazing job of buying into those. So we're seeing that, right?
We're seeing that every single day,
yeah.
because they're portraying rich people in that way, on top of whatever programming we got while we were younger.
And I,
And,
Hearing a speaker a long time ago, talking about like how rich is too rich, right? We all have like this view of, how much money is a lot of money? And the reality is how much money is a lot of money and how much is rich is like one notch above where you are today. Um, right. So I'm not rich, oh, but they're rich. It's all relative, I think. And to your point, I think the media does do a good job of, of feeding into it, at various times. Yes. And yet. Money is the engine of our economy,
yes?
so we need people that have money to spend. In fact, there was an article in the wall street journal. I think it was the wall street journal about a week or so ago. I'm talking about how the U S economy is really driven by top earners. With expendable cash and stuff and it's like, yes. And I think to a certain degree that is always true. have way more disposable income today than I did 30 years ago.
Yeah, of course.
As my earning power, as my wealth has increased, as whatever, I'd say that's true for most people. On the other hand, I, you know, I talked to my friends or my sisters and stuff. We're like, man, teenagers today have way more money than we ever had and opportunities and wishes to spend their money. So it's all, it all becomes relative. So how do people shift their mindset? Can you reprogram the seven year old you?
And if not, what do you do to make money and mindset more engaging and more positive?
Well, you could definitely reprogram the seven year old you. You can reprogram anything that doesn't serve you. That's what I learned in my neurocoaching certification. So It takes a little bit of time and a little bit of effort. Not a lot. I go through it in my book, you can. Reprogram anything, first, what you need to do is identify it, which is what we were talking about with the questions. Identify this story that's going on and on, in your subconscious and then you need to identify it.
Disprove it. So for instance, when I mentioned, you know, I making money is hard. I had to find evidence of the opposite, Which wasn't that hard for me because I had a couple of rental properties at the time. And I was like, well, that's like the easiest money I ever made,
Yeah. Yeah.
out. Like, I'm not doing any work to do that hardly. And I'm making money doing it. So that's not necessarily true. I just disproved it. I, I'm not working at all and I'm making money by, by doing that. Then you just simply reprogram it by saying making money is easy and you can. See it, say it, write it. And all the time for seven weeks is what they say. My neurocoaching program is, just continually to see it, say it, write it. I like to stick it on a little post it note in my,
Like
computer.
affirmations
Yes. See, it's an affirmation. Making money is easy. Rich people are generous. Rich people are kind, you know, whatever, you know, all of that. Reprogramming those. And you could do it with anything, not just money. Any kind, any belief that you find that's been put in there, you can reprogram it. But it does take up time because think about it, however old you are, those pathways in your brain, they're called neuropathways. You know, it's like the longer you walk on that track,
yeah,
embedded it gets, so It's going to take longer to reprogram it.
so I worry sometimes Audrey, so I, you know, I hear these things and I think, you know, is. The shift from making money that's hard, or money doesn't grow on trees, or whatever. Quite honestly, I worry that I've ruined my kids at times. Um,
same
because, as we all have. But for me it's this aspect of, Money, you know, I think there's this whole idea of believing in abundance and having a growth mindset, but that doesn't mean it's about everything, right? So last summer took our family to France and to Switzerland and had a great right? Wonderful vacation. Everybody was thrilled.
My kids were thrilled, and there were a few things along the way like this one, you know, we were going out to dinner at the hotel one night because that was the closest place. I'm like, mom, have you seen the menu prices? I'm like, yeah, it's fine. in that moment, was fine to pay X amount of money on a dinner. But by golly, that is not something I'm going to frequent on a daily basis.
And so, how to separate the fact that I'm really okay spending money on certain things or certain experiences, but in order to have the money to do that, I have to conserve elsewhere. How do you suggest framing that?
so that's more about creating a plan or a blueprint as I call it in my book and really Deciding ahead of time how you want to spend your money, if you have a plan for your money then it all makes sense. It's when you don't have a plan that it gets a little wild. And I use debt to, to leverage my wealth and grow my wealth. I'm not a debt free person. I don't. I don't believe in the debt free model.
I don't think, you know, paying 20 percent interest on a credit card makes sense, but I have what in my book what's called the 7 percent rule. If the interest rate is under 7%, you're better off investing Versus if it's under 7 percent or if it's over 7%, maybe you pay less. Pay it off sooner. And that's a flexible number to a point, right? It depends on your mindset and your values. But going back to what you said.
You create the, a plan for your money and I may, you may like to go on trips and travel to Europe and that may be your thing and maybe I like to, go to get my nails done or go to concerts or go things like that. Choosing how we spend our money. Through a plan is what's most beneficial rather than just say, well, I'm going to do this and this and that. And then before you know it, you've spent more than you have coming in and then you end up in a difficult situation.
I think that makes sense. And I think this whole aspect of
Yeah,
a choice. I think it's interesting that you don't talk about it as a budget, but as a blueprint.
I hate the word budget,
to me about that. I hate budgets too, by the way, but I'm, I'm willing to hear
but he hates the word budget. Yes. So a, including me, everybody hates the word budget because budget a sounds constrictive. And I remember the first time I created myself a little budget. I was actually in the negative and I was like, I crumbled the, and that was before anything fun, and I literally like crumbled it up and then threw it out and said, I'm never doing this again.
So that was, you know, in my early life and, we were struggling to make ends meet, and we all go through those times and yes, sometimes you need to use a credit card to get through those times, I just have an aversion to the word budget. So I like to call it a plan because a budget is telling you like, not, well, you can't spend money. You gotta like,
what you can't do is what
yes.
feels like. Right. Yeah.
And a plan is like, okay, or a blueprint is, okay, I'm deciding where I want to spend my money. It's just a whole different, like, vibe.
and it, yeah, yeah, okay, I like that because, okay, thank you. I'm going to, I'm no longer going to have a budget, I'm just going to have blueprints. how do you see this whole idea of mindset applying to business? Right? So I think a lot of this, what we're talking about, my money mindset is my personal money mindset. And yet it affects businesses. And I know you work with a lot of small, in midsize businesses. How do you see that? Going from being personal to being business.
Well, I always like to say how you do one thing is how you do everything. Like, we're just creatures of habit, right? So, in most cases, I can't say it's for everybody, but what I've seen is if we're, you know, more conservative on Our personal finances, we're more conservative on our business finances. Is that good or bad? You don't know. If you're more conservative, sometimes you might take less risk in your business that could then pay off, right?
Right?
So, like, you just, I think, have to be aware. And I talk about that in my book. I apply the different DISC personalities to, how you are in, with money. And, like I said, how you are with one thing, it proves to be how you are with money. So, if you're more conservative on, the leadership style or, or whatever, you're going to be more conservative with your money.
But if you're like the fun leader and you're inspirational leader and, you know, You're probably gonna be less conservative with money and more worried about having fun. So, I mean, it all goes across like all businesses. Business and personal, like it's all the same. And I think becoming aware of who you are and how you look at things is probably one of the most important things.
So you can say, well, is this me being too conservative and maybe I should, get advice on taking this business risk or not, or vice versa, is that me, this being fun and putting money everywhere. Maybe I should take a step back and be a little more conservative. And so knowing who you are and and how you are with things is very important and it just goes across whether it's personal or business.
A couple of final questions. One is just around, taking control of your financial future, which is, you know, which kind of ties into money mindset, but also other things. Right. And I think. But often, as an entrepreneur, you know that your future is in your own hands. I mean, you have to do things to make that future happen in, the land of the corporate. We often assume that we've got financial security through our companies, and yet we also see that there are a number of layoffs coming.
There are companies that are being bought and sold that are shifting, people's Livelihood potentially, yeah, maybe they're continuing to be employed, maybe they're by a different company, maybe no longer employed and need to find something new. and I think there's this hypothesis that, you know, hey, I've got this steady paycheck and it's going to continue to be this steady paycheck. And then one day it's not. We can plan ahead.
So what should people be doing personally really to take control of their financial future?
Either saving or, there are other ways too. There are two vehicles I like for an emergency fund and it's not necessarily how most other people do it. So I have two unique, ways that I always used as my, you know, quote unquote, nest egg or savings. So I always have a home equity line of credit. And the best time to get that is when you don't need it.
Absolutely.
The best time to get any money from any bank is when you don't need it.
Yeah.
have a line of credit that works, you know, just like a credit card where you can draw on it when you need it. so having, that's actually how I paid for, for a lot of my kids college is using a home equity line of credit. your home is constantly increasing in value.
Yeah.
98 percent of the time, of course, we had, you know, 1 or 2 years where that wasn't the case, but, 98 percent of the time your house is increasing in value. So, having that home equity line of credit is letting you tap into that value of your home.
Hmm.
And if you don't need it, you're not paying any interest on it. You're not using it.
Right.
The other vehicle is a Roth IRA. So that grows. tax free, and you could always take out the principal, which is, you know, the money you put in out of a Roth IRA, tax and penalty free.
Yeah.
So, and it grows tax free, so you're not paying any tax on the interest in the growth, and it's there in case of an emergency.
Yeah.
I know there's income limits on the Roth IRA.
Well, what I was going to say is, and this becomes the subject of a completely different podcast. In fact, there's probably podcasts out there, but you know, the whole backdoor Roth conversion
yes,
huge
what I was gonna say. There is a back, you can put it in a non traditional IRA and then roll it into a Roth IRA, which is called a backdoor Roth IRA. So, which they might as well just eliminate the Roth IRA. Like, and
Right.
be done with it.
gets back to, um, Congress and, you know, Constituent's money mindset
right.
rich people and what constitutes rich and where the benefits should go, etc. So that's
Exactly. You make a great point there Victoria. It is.
ah, see, I learn I learn. So this has been really fun, Audrey. I'm really glad that we've gotten to do this. Um, and, just learn more about what you're doing. Uh, where can our audience learn more about you or connect with you if they want to and learn more about, um, she grows Rich,
Sure. Well, she grows rich. I had to become a financial powerhouse is available on Amazon. You can get the digital copy right now for just 99 cents. It's on sale. And you can get that. Just search she grows rich Audrey
Okay,
Faust. It'll come right up for you.
include a link for
Oh, perfect
well, just to make life easy. Yeah, exactly.
and then You can find me at Audrey Faust consulting. com and I have some free resources on there There's also if you buy the book you can find my book portal on there Which has some additional free resources in it. So including a money mindset training and some fun calculators when you're when you're calculating different things like your net worth that I talk about in the book as well as the 7 percent rule. There's a 7 percent rule calculator in there.
that lets you compare investing versus paying off debt. There's all kinds of fun stuff in there.
Awesome. Well, this has been great. Audrey, you so much for joining me. I really appreciate your time today. Absolutely. And thanks everyone for listening. Keep listening. Keep following. Keep sharing. And we will talk with you again soon.
Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. For more insights, visit the Chemical show.com and connect with us on LinkedIn. You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. Join us next time for more conversations and strategies shaping the future of the industry. We'll see you soon.