Hi, this is Victoria. This is the fifth and final episode in my series recorded at ACC's Responsible Care and Sustainability Conference. Ironically, it was the first interview I recorded on site. I had an amazing conversation with Kevin Norfleet, the Global Sustainability Director at Celanese. We talked about sustainability, but more importantly, we talked about strategy.
Customer impact and the importance of creating customer value and the challenge of balancing stakeholder and regulatory requirements while also providing products and services that customers really need and are willing to pay for. So Kevin talks about Celenese's carbon capture project in Texas, as well as developing eco friendly products. Kevin also shared some career tips and insights for those entering the field. Hope you enjoy our conversation. I know I did.
Hi, I'm Victoria Meyer. Welcome back to The Chemical Show. Today, I am speaking with Kevin Norfleet from Celanese, who is the Global Sustainability Director. We are here at ACC's Responsible Care and Sustainability Conference, and I got a chance to meet with Kevin live, in real life, which doesn't always happen on our Chemical Show podcasts. Um, and really happy to do that. So, Kevin, welcome to The Chemical Show.
Thank you. Good to be here.
Thank you. So, let's just start a little bit. How'd you get interested in the chemical industry and then ultimately into sustainability?
Yeah. Yeah. So I've been with Celanese for 16 years. So really my entire career and I was a chemical engineer as an undergraduate. I like chemistry. I like math. It seemed like a logical connection. And so it's,
That's the story for most, for most yet.
It's been a, been a great journey. I've been able to do a lot of different things with Selenies over the past 16 years. And really starting about five years ago, we started to say there's this emerging theme of sustainability. Why don't you go take a look at it and kind of see what the next emerging market trend is. And I frankly never got to anything else.
I've really just spent the last five years working on sustainability and it's just grown and grown and grown in terms of a really impactful area to us.
Yeah, absolutely. And certainly this is the decade of sustainability, right? That, um, it seems like since the pandemic, everyone's sustainability efforts have accelerated. It's gotten more interest to the general public, to the chemical industry and to our customers. Yep. Awesome. When you think about Selenese, what's, what's the role of sustainability at Selenese? What, what part does it play in your products and your investments and your strategies?
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, We see sustainability as, as really a, uh, exciting opportunity for our business. So, Celanese as a company, we are one of the largest non fuel users of methanol in the world. And, methanol is a really interesting building block for sustainability. You can get to sustainable methanol in a lot of different ways, and you can do it frankly, in ways that are more scalable and, um, in many ways more economical than a lot of other chemical pathways.
And so that creates really compelling options for our business to be able to deliver sustainability to our customers in a way that's, that's very effective and very cost advantage so that, um, you know, we can give sustainability competitively, um, not just competing against in kind chemistries, but a lot of out of kind chemistries too.
So, so from that perspective, we see it as a really great business opportunity and maybe just one part of that to highlight, uh, we recently were able to start up what we believe is one of the largest carbon capture and utilization projects in the world to be able to make methanol to really create, you know, an engine to drive sustainability into most of our company.
Got it. So where's the CCU located?
Yeah. So it's at our plant in Clear Lake, Texas, which is just outside of Houston. Um, we have an existing methanol unit there. That's a part of a joint venture we have with Mitsui and company. Um, and yeah, we started that up at the beginning of the year.
That's interesting. So was, did you guys anticipate the carbon capture being part of this methanol project? Cause that, that plant is not that old. Was it part of the development expectation or is this something that really came into bear as technologies advanced and really this recognition that we really needed to do something with carbon?
It was, I would say more of, you know, something that really has developed in the last couple of years as, as we've looked at that unit and looked at, you know, how can we do more? How can we really create, um, opportunities and options for our business? And this is again, a great example of looking at sustainability both as the right thing to do, but also something that's good business.
And I think that's exactly what this project is, is really looking at what we had there and saying, Hey, there's this really interesting opportunity where we can do carbon capture and utilization and make it do it in a way that's economical.
Yeah. Cool. So, you know, sustainability, I think, uh, you know, one of the topics we talk about is whether customers really want it, like who really cares, who cares and who's paying for it? Because it feels like everybody cares until the money discussion comes in because it's, it's not cheap. I mean, building a carbon capture unit is not free. Yep. Yep. There's an investment involved, there's an ongoing operating cost.
So when you think about sustainability as it relates to customer and you think about what, how it fits into your product and customer portfolio, what's the value driver there? Are customers asking for this? Are they valuing it? How do you see its importance?
Yeah. You know, that's a, that's a big question. That's kind of a joke. People, that's the million dollar question. I mean, that's what ultimately, yeah, the billion dollar question, um, you know, how do you, how do you figure that out? And, and it's, it's by no means. answer. I mean, there are, there are customers in market segments that are really ahead of the curve and really driving in and, and frankly willing to pay, um, a premium.
I mean, that said, when you talk about sustainability, you got to keep in mind, you're not just competing against your own direct competitors. You're really competing against what it, what it Customers and companies want to spend money on within their entire value chain, and you have to, you have to think about sustainability in a way where it's competitive, not just in your space, but against all the other places where they can spend that sustainability dollar as well.
So, um, you know, it's, there's definitely places where there's openness. You know, I would love it There were more people with that openness. I mean, it's, it's definitely a journey. Some sub-market segments are very far along. Some are just starting out, but we do see it as, uh, a trend that's probably only gonna continue to go in one direction, and that's where we are.
That's cool. Well, and I hadn't really thought about it from a customer, the customer's portfolio perspective, that our customers, your customers have certain areas that are higher priority to be, you know, more sustainable products or to make that investment even from a supplier, um, versus others.
And so figuring out that you're, you're not just competing with yourself and with other competitive products, methanol and what have you, it's completely different products, um, in terms of where the money is.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, at the end of the day, part of what we say is, you know, we want customers to see the most value from spending that dollar on sustainability, you know, with us with versus other places. And, you know, that's a big part of how we've tried to present our, our offerings. I mean, we, we've really developed these eco product options across now almost our entire portfolio where we have eco CC products based on our carbon capture and utilization.
We have eco B based on bio. So again, really this idea of, yeah, making sure we're putting in place, uh, good options for our customers. Customers that are both impactful but also attractive because like you said at the beginning, I mean, you've got to have a conversation about, uh, the cost too. I mean, you have to, you have to start with that.
Yeah. Makes sense. Um, do you get involved in recruiting at all? I mean, when you think about, and I know, yeah, every chemical company is always looking at bringing up the next generation. Is this something, is this a value proposition for future employees? Um, is it something that you're, you're. Your future employees are looking for this commitment to sustainability and the investment in sustainability. Does it help make your employee value proposition better?
Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, this, this topic is an important one to, to Selanese. I mean, we, we spend a lot of time and effort on it. It's, it's, you know, part of how we ensure a license to operate and, and exactly what you said. I mean, it's something that, you know, people look at when they decide what kind of a company do they want to work for and spend a career with. So yeah, it's absolutely a, a key piece of, you know, how we, how we want to present ourselves.
All right. So, leadership and career question, um, if you were going to advise somebody in terms of creating a career in chemicals, what's the most critical thing? What's the learning along the way that you've had that you think helps create a successful career?
Yeah. So I would say, uh, you need to be prepared to be agile and be very open to learning that, uh, you know, career paths aren't, aren't linear. You have to be willing to, to move side to side, to, to gather extra experiences. You know, looking back on my career, uh, there were times where I did jobs that maybe I didn't love as much, but then years later, looking back at it, I say, that was just an incredible experience and I'm so glad I did that.
And so, you know, having that, uh, flexibility, willingness to learn, willingness to try new things, willingness to sometimes move sideways and move to a different division and things like that, where, you know, it's not always a straight line, but, but I think that's, you know, one of the most important parts, uh, in terms of developing your yourself.
Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank. Thanks for, uh, taking the time out of the conference to meet with me today. I really appreciate it.
Sounds good. Appreciate it.
Absolutely. And thanks everyone for listening. Keep listening. Keep following. Keep sharing. And we will talk with you again soon.