E2: Fitter Builder Player - Let's talk Combo Sets

So glad everybody down there in the FL is okay .

This morning Sun got out . It got a little hot , but you know it's okay , I'm used to the heat , so it doesn't bother me that much . It's just it's going to be nice to finally get some good weather that we've been waiting for forever . So you will be able to tell . This week Roar sounds a little bit more present .

He's got some upgrades to his equipment , so you sound great . You sound great .

Um , you know , if we , if we have time today , um , but we , we settled on combo sets . Uh , this would be more in a fitters perspective of the fitter builder player . Uh moniker for us , uh , combo sets .

Why don't you , why don't you uh let people know what a combo set is and why someone should go to a combo set , and then we'll get into why they shouldn't get into a combo set and uh , what they should be playing yeah .

But you know , the better players especially want to be a little more precise , be able to control the ball a little better . The spin , you know , fight it , work it . And some of those you know borderline game improvement clubs . You just can't work the ball like you can with a , with a blade or or a cavity back . You know more of that players club .

And then , you know , a lot of folks think about combo in a set . They all they're thinking about is irons , but at the same time , um , you know you combo hybrids and irons guilty you know , I'm sure we'll . Yeah , I'm sure we'll dive into that some too .

I actually have a hybrid in my bag for the first time since like 2010 , um well I , I played this past weekend and uh , I was wasn't hitting my five iron .

You know , the reason I pulled my four iron and went to a seven wood was because easier to hit , higher launching angle , a little bit more spin , able to hold greens from 200 to 205 . It's like my 195 to 205 club right now , and then my 6-iron is my 170-ish club . But I was like , so I was concerned .

Like you know , I'm really struggling to hit this club consistently good . So today , in between fittings , told julian , I said hey , I'm gonna I'm gonna grab a five hybrid and , uh , let's see what happens .

And uh , wow , I don't know if it's because I've been working on my swing and it's a little bit refined , but , holy crap , high , long spin , I'm like good grief . So it was the , the five , uh , hybrid , the ai smoke , and it's the , the hl , the high launch , and uh , I was hitting it way higher than my five iron .

I was hitting it just as long , if not a little longer , and with way more spin than my five iron . So I was like that was an easy fix . So , uh , yeah , I , the five iron's gone , I'm it's , it's yoked . The , the hybrid got ordered and as soon as it gets here , five iron , you've been banished to the corner . So that's my little , my little combo set .

But you know , like what you said , a lot of guys want the forgiveness of , of the , the players . Uh , you , uh , you know game improvement , players , irons . And then , once you get up into the , the , you know the seven , eight , nine , the shorter clubs where the workability is that , where you're talking to workability factor with those ?

You know it's , um , the folks that really have no business playing a players club and just insist or probably made their mind up before they got to the fitting bay um , that they're going to combo their irons . You know I'll swap it at the eight iron .

You know , just to give them a little more forgiveness than that seven iron , though you know , like me , a little more um , and then you know , top of the bag , same thing . I mean it's , you don't have to just stop at two irons .

You know you could , especially with , like , um , you know , for example , callowaway's Apex line , before the 200 and 300 came out , we were doing a lot of , a lot of combo sets that had Apex pro , you know , three or four iron , and then the CB five through six or seven and and the MBs to round it out . So , um , yeah , you can go three wayway .

You know , strixon also . Strixon actually has a combo set builder on their website and they've got the utility irons , the ZX4 , zx5 , zx7 . Is that right ? Yeah , yeah , yeah . So they've got it right on their website there is ?

Has it been around for a while and and people are just now starting to get word of it and wanting to try it out ?

Trying to think of some other brands , wilson had quite a stake in the game , always had Callaway and TaylorMade and Titleist and whatnot .

But some of the guys would have their own combo set because , for example , adams was making more forgiving clubs or Callaway was , and they'd play the longer irons with a more forgiving club and then play the Wilson Blades or the Hogan Blades down in the scoring clubs . It's definitely gotten more trendy .

There's a lot more people wanting to do it , asking about it .

When I first started club fitting now , let's say when I restarted club fitting cause I first started in the late nineties , um , but when I restarted club fitting , you know we didn't do a lot of combo sets and nobody ever , you know , came to the tailor-made tent and asked , hey , I'm interested in a 770 and a cb or mc combo set .

They come to the tent and just wanted to hit whatever and then , as I got out of working or , you know , doing demo days and fitting events .

You know it's towards the end of that portion of my career they folks would come and say , hey , I want to look at combo in 790s and 770s and then , um , here in the fitting bay at shell bay , I get folks all the time that you know walk in , say , or you know they'll reach out before they even book their fitting and say , hey , I'm interested in in combo

in the what was the most recent one ? Uh , it was actually 770s and MCs , you know the new ones from Taylor made .

You know , and really , and that's that's the one reason that I feel like I'll always have a career as a club fitter , even with AI and computers and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff that you got to fit the person to what they're trying to achieve , and that requires a conversation

. Um , you know , the one of the best examples I have of that was when I was working for TaylorMade and I was doing an event at uh , I don't remember if it was PGA tour super store , golf galaxy . But um , they , uh , they warned me when I got there that my first fitting was a guy who comes in every other day , hits something new , never buys anything .

And I fit him and he bought a driver and the store manager came up and said what , how in the world did you sell him a club ? Yeah , yeah , and and it was all because I had a conversation with him , you know . I asked him what are you trying to achieve ? And he says I've never been able to hit a draw . I want , want to hit a draw .

And so , with these head adjustments and the way the heads adjust and they have different centers of gravity and MOI throughout different ones . You can help somebody hit a draw for sure , absolutely . Of course they're 12 degrees across the ball , they're not going to hit a draw .

You know , get them 12 degrees of launch , 2200 spin , you know , and the guy couldn't draw that club , you know , it was something that actually spun a little bit more and , you know , had some draw bias , add some loft , close the face and and he was hitting a little baby draw , never done it before and bought two of them .

That Callaway has Super , super draw bias and it's funny when you see somebody that is playing a club that's not set up like that swings that club and they're like whoa , it's like yeah , there's , there's yeah and you know , then you can . From there you can tweak it , you know , and get it and and find out .

You know , okay , maybe you don't need this one , let's go back to the max , or you know , there's the max . There's so many different options now to to dial in players specifically to what their swing . But with , with combo sets , what ? What should people be interested ? What ?

What should they be looking for with their , with their game , if a combo set is right for them ? Cause I'm sure there's some people out there that are like , do I need a combo set ? Some people like , yes , I want a combo set and you don't need it .

So at what point during a fitting process , would you tell somebody hey , we're gonna , we're gonna mix this up , we're gonna go , we're gonna combo this set and and why does that ? At that point do you do that ? Does that make sense ?

Or you know they want yeah , yeah , um , and so I can at least talk them into . Hey , why don't we get throw a little more forgiving five iron in the bag , and you know , and then kind of slide in the . I'm gonna combo it down at the seven iron and and um , you know they , you know they appreciate that .

So I mean , a lot of times it's making the person happy . You know which . You know my job as a fitter is to put the best clubs in their bag and always give them my recommendation . But you know people can be stubborn and it's their money . And if they want to , if they want just have got to have something in the bag .

You know , let's , let's work around it and uh , and get some of it in the bag and um , you know , the big thing for me , though , is it was probably consistency . You know , if you maybe your swing is not the best , but you hit the ball in the same spot all the time , you know , then that's , that can kind of play into where you want more forgiveness .

Obviously everybody wants forgiveness , wants all the forgiveness you can get . You know the guys here are giving me hell for playing the calloway tie fusions right now , but , um , I know where the ball's going . You know yeah and uh and then . So if you're not real consistent , combo set could be , could be good .

You know , like if you're around the greens or you know somebody's just loves their clubs , loves their swing from , let's say , 140 in and knows what's happening with the ball and where it's going . But on the longer clubs struggle with dispersion or whatever it is , then let's look at a more forgiving club , and sometimes it's .

I'm not always talking somebody out of a full set of players' clubs as much as I'm sometimes talking somebody into throwing some more forgiving clubs in the top end of the bag .

You know , golfers us golfers are really finicky people and we want our shit to look cool , and a shovel on the end of a shaft is not what they want to see . Uh . So , um , taking clubs and making them more forgiving and also making them have the appearance of a player's iron , uh is a big trend going on right now calloway's paradigm line .

I know calloway , so that's why I'm talking about you , rose . You could talk about other clubs that are maybe doing this because you see them more , but the AI Smoke Paradigm irons they don't look like the Rogue irons , you know they are vastly different . They have a clean look to them .

Yeah , there's some offset to them , of course , because it is a game improvement club , but much different than going back five years .

You don't want to see , you don't want to see the back of the club sticking out you know when you forward press , you know , and uh , and you know , to speak to some other brands like mizuno , um , and they're 241 , 243 , 245s , like you've those , like the 245 to 241 .

Those are completely different clubs but if you , you know , got paired with somebody that's got a set and they're riding with you on the cart , you got to get up close to figure out which one they have .

Same thing with with strixon , I mean , these , these clubs like the zx4 , you know , is , um , it's got a cavity , it looks like cavity back but it it's a super forgiving iron and you kind of got you know . Same thing if you don't have the trained eye , you don't know whether you're playing .

They're playing the same thing Brooks Koepka's got , or if they're playing , you know the little more forgiving version of it .

So yeah , that's something I was going to speak to a minute ago was , even if the club's not the perfect club for you and I see this a lot in putters but same thing with combo and irons and whatnot If you're excited about hitting that club because it looks good to you , you know , for whatever reason it is , but if you're excited about hitting that club ,

you're going to hit it more . It means you're going to practice . It means you're going to be excited to get out there . You know golf is so between the ears that if you like looking down at something , you're going to be holding it a lot more than if you hate it .

Highly skilled player , he's a plus two , um , so it's .

It's funny how I don't know if it's got me being around guys that are getting older , that are growing older with me , but I'm starting to see more and more people start , you know , those clubs that are harder to hit are going to a club that's easier to hit and enjoying golf so much more because of it .

I think it was Golf Magazine been talking about Freddie Couples and his six or seven woods and hybrids . Yeah , I mean , you got to play what fits your game , not your ego .

And so we took the 5 hybrid , which was 21 , I think 21 , 22 , and bumped it up to 24 . So it was 22 , 21 , 23, . We bumped it up to so a little bit stronger lofted , but I could not believe how well I was hitting it , how high it was going and the spin . It was incredible and I was like I hit probably 10 shots with my Adele 5-iron .

Maybe four were like solid . I hit 10 with the hybrid . Nine were solid and the one that wasn't was a really good miss . So I mean just the consistent and that's that is where my game's biggest weakness is right now is my approach shots from , you know , 200 , 160 to 200 .

It's just , it's weak and uh , found something that is going to help me in that regard . So , and you know what , if I find out that I hit the six hybrid better than I hit my six iron , I'm going to a six . I don't care .

No , no , there's just a section where you total up your score . Yeah , it doesn't matter what the hell you hit . What matters is that box at the end with your number on it . You know , is it lower than the person you were playing ? Yeah , okay , that that's what matters . It doesn't matter if you hit a , you know a four hybrid oh , absolutely .

You can combo a set with irons and hybrids . You can combo sets with two different types of irons . You said you can combo sets with three different types of irons , so on

on . For me fitting , we have a seven iron that we use and we we have the hybrids and everything that we can we can figure out . Do you mainly fit there with just one iron or do you have out ?

Do you mainly fit there with just one iron or do you have , uh , a onslaught of heads that you can have somebody , because it for me it's kind of hard to determine if somebody should be in a combo set . You know , we'll , we'll have them hit their lowest iron in the bag just to get a reference point , um , but you know we don't have .

We don't have a , a five in a mb , you know a nine in a CB , to see the difference .

Or they're striping the seven wood and they're striping the three wood , but I don't have a five wood in that particular head . They won't buy it . Yeah , and then same thing with the iron . So like , well , do you have a nine iron ? Do you have a pitching wedge ? I can hit , you know . So .

Um , and , and you know , it's not just the ladies , there's , there's guys that are like that too . Some people .

So right , that said , I do have , I do have some sets um that you know , I'll order uh , five through pitch and wedge , you know . So folks can hit them , but it's usually not a not a inquiring about comboing a set of irons . But that said , you know there's , there's a lot of data Mizuno shaft optimizer is . It compiles some data . That saves me some math .

You know that . I mean it's looking at the way you transition and you know from the top it's looking . You know I , I look at attack angle . I'm looking at , you know attack angle is a big , a big one .

You know that as long as I worked for tailor-made , I never had anybody at the company ever talked to me about attack angle and really I mean in terms of training and whatnot , um that's such a huge number yeah , and you know , I mean they touch on it in fitting certifications just to understand what it is and what it means and how it affects the club , but

they don't really talk about it in terms of fitting a hybrid versus a , an iron . Um , maybe they've stepped up their game . I'd be honest that , uh , I don't go through their training program every single year .

Yeah , I get the highlights and then , you know , we get in the fitting bay , we put stuff to the test and kind of figure it out , because I also have a hard time believing what a company tells me a club is going to do versus what it does . And same thing with shafts .

You know , you know , um , but you know you can look , you can look at those , at those metrics , you can look at attack angle and you know .

You know , you've been , you've been working on creating a little more lag . Yeah , that kind of shallows out your swing a little bit .

But my transition into the ball like is very appealing to a hybrid strike , where the mass is with that club and how I can , you know , bring it into the ball right now is like the bee's knees , it's it .

Just , I was sitting there in awe , like I have not been a hybrid person , you know , but the only hybrid I've ever tried to hit is like a three hybrid . I haven't ventured into , you know , a five or a six hybrid and when I sat that down today I had nothing made me go , you know . It was like , all right , let's hit it .

And from the first ball strike I was like holy crap , what ? have I been doing this whole time with this and it's a mental , it's a between-the-ears thing , but I'll get out on the course and I'm 185 out and I'm like , all , all right , here's my five iron . Oh , what's gonna happen , you know ?

And it's just that that that negative thought creeps over , because I know I don't hit it that well . So now I'm geeked to get out there and go yeah , let's fucking rock this club , because I know that I'm gonna hit it well . So , hey , you're gonna be hitting .

And I went down the wormhole a couple weeks ago about low ball versus high ball . And it's so funny because on so many different forums and websites and articles and youtube videos , um , aka the the golf rabbit hole , uh it's it comes out to high ball hitters want to hit it low , low ball hitters want to hit it high . So that's the way it is .

People who hit draws want to hit fades . People hit fades want to hit draws . And it made me go , just play your game , just play your game . Just that's what you do play your game . Let's refine that . But then I saw this at a high launching five hybrid and it's like you know , and I've got a , a descent angle , that's like impressive .

I'm like that's holding greens from 190 . You know that's . Yeah , that's what I need . You know , I , I don't , I don't need that low burner , that that that comes in hits the green , and I'm now , I'm chipping from the back of the green . Uh , I want that . You know , butterfly landing with sore feet from 190 yards .

Or , um , you know , learn about the R and D and the new products coming out this coming year or that had come out this fall . Um , and you know , went to ECPC Eli , ely sorry Ely Calloway Performance Center and and had a few holes in my bags and really , just really three wood , you know , fairway wood .

I have not had one that I've been excited about since , like Rocket Balls great club and so , anyway , oh , yeah , yeah , yeah , um . and so , you know , we found a three wood or a couple that fit me really well . And then , uh , we started talking about you know I have a three iron . Sometimes I carry it would carry a .

I had a ping hybrid in my bag at the time , a ping two hybrid that I liked off the tee . I hit it really low so it really wasn't a good par five chaser , you know , in a long par five , because you know it wouldn't hold the green . But so they suggested that I hit the HL , the high launch , uh , callaway hybrid .

And you know I said I'm , you know it's windy , especially in season down here , you know , south florida , I mean we don't want that height . Yeah , because a lot of people are , like you know , texting me post hurricane and or , hey , you're the balls or not the ball , you know I , I see you got some high winds .

I'm like no , this is , this is winter wind for us . You know you got West Texas and South Florida , and that's another thing . When you're fitting , you know For me , probably more than most people , it's worth asking where do you play most of your golf ? You know if they play most of their golf down here , they play most of their golf up here .

They play most of their golf up north or colorado , or uh , or west texas . You know the , the conditions where they and this might , this might be a whole nother episode you know fitting to where you play golf .

You know soft versus firm , windy versus not windy , um , but so anyway , I , I personally had never even hit the hl , because the last thing I want is a super high ball flight . You know , and in the wind down here , and they explained it to me that it's really not a high launch club , that it's the c .

You know the cg , the , the moi , is a little different . It's a little bit different head shape , shape that makes it easier for a sweeper to hit the ball , to make good contact , to compress the ball and thus , because you're hitting the ball more solid , it goes higher . It's not necessarily that it has more loft or anything like that .

Better strike , yeah , it's just going to be a better strike and that's going to get the ball up in the air . Spin a little more . Spin can be your friend at times . It's hard to spin the ball when you're coming in shallow , when you're a sweeper .

You can find places they don't charge for fittings , so it's a great way for you to go out , get some valuable information . Maybe find some clubs that you absolutely love , but there's fitting events all over . Find one , find something that works for you , and I mean , in the end end , we all want to play good golf and we all want to have a good time .

Scoring well makes you play better golf and it will make you have a better time . So there's there's really no downside to the fitting process and getting fit . Um , the , the options are growing so much for people out there . Uh , the combo sets is is a trend . It's not really a trend , I would say . I guess it is a trend that's taking place right now .

But find , find out , talk to your fitter , find out if a combo set is something right for you . You know , are you struggling hitting the five and six and seven iron in your bag ?

Uh , could have , uh , a club that offers a little bit more balance , a little bit more stability , a little bit more forgiveness benefits you with those clubs and , like we said earlier , there's so many good-looking game improvement clubs out there right now . It's not like it was in the past .

You've got options for great-looking clubs , so be sure to explore that stuff and maybe a combo set is right for you Now . Do you want to talk about people that have no business playing a combo set ?

The other thing is , you know I've got some buddies that used to combo their own set . You know , they found , found a set of of cavity backs at the players clubs that they really liked and bought the whole set at a bargain .

And then they found another set that was a little more forgiving , you know , had the wrong kind of shafts or whatever , so they pulled the shafts out

of the other . Anyway , if you're going to build your own combo set , more likely you're going to have to adjust the lofts and sometimes , sometimes even the lies , the way the ball plays . You know the way that comes off the face . Um and a lot of .

Put a game improvement in , that is more more like a three , four , five loft wise so if you are doing that exactly . Make sure that you're getting your lofts checked .

We don't make all of the more forgiving clubs a little weaker . I mean , everybody wants stronger , but you know , just got to do what's right for your game . I actually fit someone one time into oh gosh , what was it ? I think it was Mizuno's , it was the .

We did JPX and the more forgiving clubs and the pros and the and the you know scoring irons and whatnot . We . He actually carried two seven irons , wow .

And so if you are thinking about , you know , obtaining clubs like that , you can always go on the manufacturer's website , find out the lofts and see where you are compared to what you have and make sure that you get that set built properly .

Today , you know , we Callaway's got an app that has everything that they sell every shaft , every iron head , every loft and it's so nice to just be able to pull it up . Boom , boom , boom . You know , hey , what can I get these wedges in ? Well , you got this , this , this with this lofts .

Um , you know , like titleist has a uh , what I can't remember what they call it , but it um , you punch in what shaft you like or you're playing or whatever , and it can make suggestions on current day Like what's out there now that performs . Like that I have .

I mean , I've always had appreciation for what Tiger did in his prime and the guys I grew up watching Jack Nicklaus , arnold Palmer , lee Trevino , gary Player but I have so much more appreciation now looking at the tools , the resources , the technology , the evolution of the golf club , what we have today and what they did with none of that .

There was no , there was no different . You know lie , angles and lofts and and and shafts , and it was here's your club . You don't like the way it feels , put a different grip on it there you go .

You know , I can't tell you I can't tell you how many times I've ordered just regular Tour Velvet cords and then somebody comes back and says hey , these feel weird .

And I'm like it's a rib on top . And I'm like no , the rib is with the line . It's like , yeah , not on these . So yeah , chalk that up to learning experience oh , there you go . Well , hopefully you're able to save the ribs on the right side yeah that was a few years . That was a few years ago , though , um , okay .

So , uh , something that just popped in my head , speaking about different tools that are out there um , have you used the , the Quintec app , yet ? So I know you have a . No , I haven't used the right ?

But it would be awesome to do a side by side with just the app , the app and the full Quintec device , just to see you know because .

But Roar's going to work on some logo stuff tonight , so hopefully you know you'll start seeing Fitter Builder player pop up a little bit more with some more attractive appearances .

Um , I know you had one recently , um , and you took , we referenced or you talked about those Mizuno's you built . Did you end up figuring out the uh , swing weight issue ?

It was built long and he wasn't aware that it was built long . So he told me standard . So I built him to standard length and when he grabbed him and when he picked him up he's like these are short and I'm like you said , standard , you know .

And so we went and measured his seven iron to this one and it was like , yeah , they were like half inch long , and so I was like Whoa , oh shit . So instead of ordering new shafts , we just ordered some extensions , put some extensions in there and the weights are better . Now they're not .

You know , it's like it's flirting with d1 compared to c8 , so , um , they are still light heads . It was surprising . The , the 224s , came out fine , they're perfect , but the , the , the other ones , they're , they're light heads .

Yeah , taylormade for example , give me light fitting heads so if I'm sticking a plus half plus one shaft in a head , then I grab the lighter fitting head so it feels more like what they're , uh , what they're gonna get yeah , that's , and that's something that , um , you know , maybe I don't know , like the , the person he bought him for is off an ebay auction ,

so , uh , I'm sure wherever he got him from , or if he ordered that person , he necessarily . But that person that was selling them don't know if they got them custom built from mizuno or if he picked them up at a garage sale or whatever . But you , you don't know what's going on with the clubs .

You know , you just kind of got to start from scratch and and let's try to get the swing weight where it's at . But it's interesting that you said that that you know some manufacturers will go to a lighter head for a longer build makes total sense . Makes total sense .

But most people don't have the resources or tools or connections . This particular guy he had rolled someone else's putter that did it themselves and knew that was what he wanted . So he didn't care about the warranty , he didn't care about being what they consider properly balanced because he drained everything . He looked at with his buddy's putter .

Um , but you know , most , most clubs , most putters you're , you're heating the hosel you're heating now they'll probably kill me for this um , you got to heat it from the bottom of the putter . If you want to pull that shaft out , you got to put the flame on the bottom of the putter unlike the df3 , the the big ones . Yeah , yeah , yep .

And so you know cause I ? I tried three , four , five times . You know heat . You know heating the shaft , heating that side of the club , cause that's where every other club I've ever built you heat it up . And and so yeah , just a little tidbit .

If you want to do some of your own experimenting , if you want to take a chance at ruining your putter , heat the bottom wow , I would have never , I wouldn't even .

I have done the , the link , the , the blade , uh , friend , friend of mine , steven jackson had one and he wanted to put a lagp shaft in it and uh , so we put it in and you know , I I posted a video of of the shaft swap and they commented right away better send it back , otherwise it's not gonna work you know , you just send it to us and let us tune

it , because it's not right you know it's like whoa sorry , let him know , because he told me to do it so yeah , I totally get it .

Gonna talk it up to his friends , probably tell him to come see me and and , uh , have me throw an lagp in their lab as well . But , um , you know , you get . You get the guy that tinkers too much and screws his club up and can't make a putt . He's not going to say anything , nice about ?

see if you know at that level if it's making a difference . I know guys are switching to it because they think it's making a difference , but I'm curious if it is actually making a difference at that level . Now , at the amateur level and you know the mid to high handicap level , absolutely think it'll help somebody .

Absolutely no discredit to it whatsoever , um , but , uh , I think a highly skilled player , that is a professional , you know , as one of the top 300 golfers on the planet . Um , I know you get the yips and everything , but I I find it hard to believe here that those putters are improving their game putting .

Please , please , if you're listening to this and you liked what you heard , leave a review on the chasing day , that podcast uh , that's where these are going out on and then say , hey , love , fitter builder player , episode two . And uh , helps spread the word . Uh , we'll start posting on socials and and getting the word out about the show .

Uh , your support will help , but , uh , we need , we need information from

you . What do you want to hear ? What is something in the building , in the fitting , in the playing aspect of golf , that you'd like to hear us chime in about ? You know , roars and I , we don't mind ruffling feathers at all .

Let us know what you want to hear , what you want to talk about . And uh , we got some some . Uh , you know , in the first episode that we put out , we got a list of things that we want to talk about and , uh , we got some some . Uh , you know , in the first episode that we put out , we got a list of things that we want to talk about .

So , uh , check it out and uh , thanks everybody , and we'll uh see you next time .