This crowd rises to its me what borrow slam it out car left wing free ball perfect.
Then he left block the shot at the rim pow with the left hand head of foul. Welcome to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chasedown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including FanDuel Sports Network without cable, There's no cost and no commitment.
Try for free at FuboTV dot com. Slash Calves. The Cleveland Cavaliers once again, we're dominant in the clutch, coming back against the Brooklyn Nets. Another comeback win, Another clutch win, and the fifteenth win in the row, clinching the Central Division championship. There or banner, whatever you want to call it. It feels like a championship in my heart. Anytime you can put the Milwaukee Bucks in the Chicago Bowls behind you. Joining me today to discuss that and more my co
host Carter. He gets, Carter, are you doing? I bumbled your name? That was awful?
Fine a nandy brother, Despite that, you know fifteen wins in a row, second second time this season, the six team in NBA history to do that, which kind of stunning by the way that it's happened that many times. They have now won more than half of the regular season in win streaks. They have forty two wins worth of wind streaks, and that is a lot of wins.
That is an absolutely crazy stat I gotta be honest, I was a little disappointed last night. I had plans to go to a concert ended up. You know, my my avenue, my hookup to get a ticket ended up not working out for me. Looked at the last minute tickets three hundred dollars. I'm not spending that. I'm sorry. I'm not the biggest concert goer, but it was a little too deep for me. I was like, oh, you know, the Cats are probably going to blow out the Brooklyn Nets.
Then I saw, oh, Donovan entire arresting. DeAndre Hunter's got you know, an illness, and he's out. This might be an interesting game, And you know what, it was a bit of up and down game. I thought they actually played pretty well in the first quarter. Brooklyn just you know, was shooting the lights out. I thought the second quarter of the effort kind of dropped off a little bit, the focus had a bit of a fallof but they
once again rallied. They showed that they were able to you know, put it together when it really mattered and came away with a win. I had a fun time.
Yeah, it was again I think I said this last episode, but like, I'm not even getting annoyed when they're not playing well because it's just been that kind of year where like, even when they're not playing well, I'm still pretty pleased with what I'm watching. And I thought it was just one of those games where the shots weren't going in more than anything. And yeah, and the de was definitely a little rough to start the game, but I also think they just had some rough shooting variants.
You know, Zion Williams his first fourth rees, but in
Darius was having another one of those games. And I think we do kind of have to start with Darius because you know, he did have kind of a Tale of two halves sort of game where you know, first half happens and you go, uh, man, do we have a problem here, you know, because you know he'd been shooting like thirty four percent since the hip injury against the Knicks, and it wasn't getting a lot better, you know, even in games that they were winning, which is all
of them. Uh, you know, it was a little bit of mostly rely on, you know, just keeping the engine going as opposed to taking over. And you know, we saw ty Jerome take down the takeover one of the stretches that Donovan sat earlier in this wind streak. We saw you know, don him in go nuts. We saw DeAndre Hunter go nuts. We've seen a lot of guys win games for the Calves and it just hasn't really
mattered that much that Darius hasn't played well. And I was, you know, we're in the first half and I'm looking through the roster and looking through the rotation. I go, it's gonna have to be you, brother, Yeah, And it was. He scores. He goes absolutely ballistic in the fourth quarter, scores eighteen points, is finishing at the rim, is hitting threes, is getting to the line, is diming and completely took over and finishes with thirty eight and four in four
steals as well. So I don't know, I don't know if my like my spidy, my angst senses are all the way wiped away because I still think it's been hard for him to get going ever since he got hurt. But it certainly was nice to see.
Yeah, he really was nice to see. And you know that kind of sentiment of well, it's got to be you tonight. I think that was the exact same thing that Kenny Atkinson was thinking in that moment. Darius played over thirty six minutes in this game. It was the second most minutes he's played all season in the game, which automatically made me think, how many games did he
have where he played more than that last season? Sixteen is the answer to that, you know, and we're almost towards the end of this season and this is the second most he's played. But you know, that's kind of going in line with what we've heard, you know, Chris Fied or Danny Cunny, Hammett and all the wonderful people on the beat say that Kenny's plan is for down the stretch, which is we're going to have to have
some nights where these guys do play more minutes. We got to get their conditioning up and ready for the playoffs, and you know, being able to trust Darius in that spot where he doesn't have it going. He's missing shots. You know, he's not able to find that rhythm offensively, and for him to step up in that way I thought was really encouraging. We talked on the last podcast about how not only was Darius slumping, you know, the last few games, but Donovan's shooting numbers were really down.
I didn't even realize this until, you know, it was announced that he was resting, but Ty Jerome over the last six games had been twenty two of sixty two from the field. He was in a slump. You know. I think all of these guards have been in a little bit of a funk, and that's probably part of why we've seen this uneven stretch. But with Darius, there's just that more clean line of when this started. Right, he had, you know, the first seven games of February's
shooting forty seven forty eight from the field dominant. Looks like he has has that fall against New York, misses two games, and then he's been in a bit of a rut since. And I do think it's worth noting over that stretch, he's still had productive games. The playmaking's
been good, the assistant turnover ratio has been good. I feel like the defense has been strong, and even over those seven games, three of them he's had an above leaverage true shooting percentage in those games as well, So it's not like last year where there was no impact at all. But I do think that it's been a different version of Darius than what we've seen all season.
I feel like he's been a no doubter or to me an, all NBA level player all year, and he's back to being like a pretty good point guard right now, right right, And there is a difference between those two things.
Yeah, you know, above lee average true shooting percentage isn't the standard that he set for himself this season, right, It has been a fifty to forty ninety level. So I do think the most noteworthy difference really has been he's not getting to the rim and into the paint at the same rate that he has before. He's had halfs where he's only taken three pointers. I don't know
if that's. Hey, I'm working my way back from the hip and I just don't want to over exert myself or what the deal is, but I thought it was noteworthy that down the stretch against Brooklyn, he was attacking he was getting downhill, he was getting into the paint, you know, finishing at the rim, drawing fouls. Can I just kick is so funny that we're like, what's wrong with Darius? All he's doing is shooting when all we wanted him to do for the last three years was
shoot more. Yeah. Yeah. And you know that goes to what we said after the Chicago game, which is in the past, a game like that, we probably would have interpreted it in a more positive way that hey, you know, he's taking a lot of shots and he's pressing a little bit. But I prefer that to fading away into the background. But the reality is, you know, we have a higher standard this season. We have a legitimate chance
to go out and win a championship this year. So you want to find ways to be productive even when you don't have it going. I don't.
Yeah, go ahead, No, I was agreeing with you. Sorry, I didn't have anything that It was just agreeing being an active listener.
You know, that's fine. You know, I think it was a really really you know, strong performance for him in the fourth quarter. I do like the fact that he has remained aggressive kind of through this stretch. My inclination, whether there is something wrong or not, is hey, it might be nice time to get him arrest, Like you know, Donovan and Ty got their night off here. If he rests first Memphis, that's four days off. But I also have to acknowledge that some of this is me thinking, well,
there's some avenue to control this. It's not just a shooting slump, right Like, if we rest them, everything's going to be fine, right Like, these aren't just the ebbs and flows of a season, which in reality that might be it. It might just be, hey, you know, working your way back, you're a little tired, it's late in the season, you're not playing for anything. You're going to be a little more selective of when you attack the basket and when you're going to exert yourself.
And when you're fatigued, you just don't recover as well, right, you know, and this is a bad month for that.
I think one of the reasons that me and you both have our eyes on that, you know, that Memphis game is a bit centil Rest game is because they're just in constant, perpetual motion all month where they're not getting any time just to really sit and recover, you know, I think this is where the work that these guys put in their bodies really pays dividends because it helps them recover a little bit faster, but end of the day,
still hurts to fall on your hip that hard. And and I think, I just I just I do just kind of want to see that, you know, a little bit of an extended run of of like the Darius we saw, you know, last month, just to kind of just to kind of remind ourselves. And you know, again, I always joke that I have the memory of a fish, and I really do, because it's like you almost every time something trends the wrong way, I'm like, it's never
going to be good again, and everything. Every time something is trending the right way, I'm like, we're never going to lose.
Yeah, even within this game, you know, you get the sentiment of, hey, when he doesn't have it going, he's not able to pull through. You know, when he's a little banged up, he doesn't find ways to be effective. And I think he has found ways to be effective over the stretch. You know, what he did in the fourth quarter was very clearly you know, that kind of switch, and I don't think it was an effort thing before.
But that's you know, that extra little bit of lock in, dig deep, let's close this out, let's get the win. And I thought it was interesting that basically that was a team wide approach. Kenny Atkinson really only played eight games or eight guys in this game. Javonte Grain got some run, you know, kind of our first hidden misstretch of him in his time with the Cavs. He had that blown dunk attempt, and there was a couple other times where he went flying and the results were sometimes positive,
sometimes negative. But you know, that's probably a little bit more closer to reality and what you'd expect. But Kenny really leaned on the top guys, Darius playing over thirty six minutes, Helen and Mobley playing thirty four minutes, Isaaco Coorro played a lot of time here. He really kind of, you know, with guys out, went with that shorter rotation rather than putting in someone like a Jalen Tyson.
Yeah, I thought that was interesting, you know, I mean because earlier I do think you're right that it was a byproduct of him trying to get these guys a little bit more run rather than because my first INSTINCTU was, Oh, Kenny really wanted to win this. He basically played eight guys, which he hasn't done all year unless we were down like six rotation players, right, And the more I thought about the more it became a little clear to me that like, oh, well he didn't do this when we
were down like five or six rotation players. Why is that? And I do think you're right, you know, I don't know how I feel about it at the end of the day, Like I probably would have liked to see a little Jalen Tyson just given him a little bit of run, but like it, there clearly is a little method to the madness of like, no, we're gonna try
to win this game. And I do also think this was the game where maybe the story of the game kind of told the story of the rotations, where they were locking down with that starting lineup and he was going to ride him. I mean, yet another second half where they just put the clams on. They have a one o eight defensive rating in the second half in the last ten games, and it definitely feels like it.
But yeah, I thought that was an interesting choice rotationally, just to be like no, no, no one knew, We're just gonna play with the guys that we expect to play with win games matter. Yeah, and you know that deficit that they went into was with Darius on the bench as well, right, Like you look at it on the night, they were plus twelve with Darius on the court,
team best by a pretty good margin. And you know, if Kenny's going to pick spots where hey, we want to get our guys more minutes, we want them to kind of ramp up a little bit and get ready for the postseason, picking your one game this month where you have two days off after is probably a sensible spot to do that, right, Like, I think that's probably part of the equation there as well. I'm so selfish that I was like, man, two days off, and then I remembered, oh yeah, it's the only time for the
next like thirty days. Yeah.
Well, and you know, from my perspective, I'm in the same boat as you. I would have liked to have another game this week, even if it was a back to back here afterthing.
Else, just for the podcast.
Its brutal for the podcast, Yeah, because we have the one game against the Nets, which you know, this isn't going to be a playoff opponent. For them, and then two days off until Memphis, which I do find it interesting that last time we played Memphis, we're like, okay, this is a test, right like number two seed in the Western Conference. You know, we we really we got to kind of anker down here and get this win. I believe Darius at that game still went out and won,
still beat Memphis. Jaron's not there. It's really kind of taking some era of the balloon there.
Yeah, it's a game they should win now, assuming they're not sitting a bunch of people. So Memphis fans might accuse Darius of duck and the smoke he missed as another.
One you might. You know, this is that that probably competition. I mean you could call it a competition. I would just call it Daris. I might even say the best player in that class. But you know that's that's me.
I should.
But you know, but before we move off of Daris, I do think we need to talk about just how good he's been in the clutch. You know, whether it's an on game or an off game, he has stepped up in those moments. I saw the NBA account tweeted out that among players that have over eighty clutch points this season, he leads them with the best field goal percentage in that time, he's shooting fifty eight point seven percent.
There's twelve players, So when I saw eighty points in the clutch, I was like, how many guys have actually done that? There's twelve guys that have done it, Trey Young, Jalen Brunson, Maxi, DeRozan, and Jokic, Fox Curry, KDDG, Hero and Tatum, and I thought it was noteworthy that not only does Darius have the best field goal percentage, he
is the best three point percentage in that stretch. If you look at free throw shooting, you know, only Steph Katie and DeRozan are better from the free throw line in the clutch.
It includes that disaster just one of three performance against Houston.
Right, almost all of those misses that he's had this season came in that one game. But he's shooting eighty eight percent from the free throw line in that moment, So you know, he's doing it in every single facet in the clutch, and his defense has been great. You know, I think back to, you know, some of the steals he had in those moments. It was that great one against Boston where he basically was playing like a defensive back.
He's been doing it all in the clutch, and I just think it makes me think back to the last couple of years where the numbers weren't as strong, and we argue, you know, some of this is variants, and I'll say this, even on this end, I don't think, you know, this is who Darius is and he's going to shoot sixty percent in the clutch for the rest
of his career or anything like this. There is some luck when it comes to performing in these moments, but I think the mentality to attack at that time, to not be afraid of taking those shots and being aggressive, having composure, I feel like he's been much much better in those areas this season.
I think the composure thing definitely shines through, because I mean, some of these are open looks that are being generated by the overall health of the offense big time. But I do think he his ISO possessions, which he's never been a great ISO player, and I don't think he is this year either, but he is doing a lot better job of setting up winning possessions for him before the shot goes up. He is you know, he's pulling the string he is getting guys on their heels and
then stopping. He's not just trying to put a couple combos on a guy then get past him. You know, I feel like he's gotten really clean angles on a lot of these attacks. He's finding the right switches. He's been threatening enough with the pass that teams are worrying about that, so he's still getting you know, he's not doing the predetermined I'm going to try to score here no matter what thing. So like, I just feel like he hasn't had to take a lot of tremendously difficult
shots in that plutch sample so far this season. It's been nice that he's hit a lot of those tremendously difficult shots as well, but like that's not what they're building the whole plane out of.
Yeah, and you know, I think that's true of Donovan as well. Right, Neither of them are particularly strong this year in isolation. Darius is in the forty eight percentile, Donovan's in the sixty six percentile. Ty jeromes in the ninety seventh, which absolutely tracks unstoppable. That completely feels that way. But I think you pointing out the process is so important because that was one of our main criticisms in the clutch was, hey, they're running this clock down too
long and there's five seconds left. They have to jack up a shot with a long defender on them, and Darius and Donovan are not getting good shots in the spot. Now they're playing with pace, they're playing with tempo. Even in the clutch. They're allowing and trusting the offense to generate better looks for them. And I think that you're
seeing better results because of that, right. I think so often the lazy conversations when it comes to the clutch and you know, star players and all that is all right, it's something that's genetic, right, it's you either have it or you don't. Don't when really the the context that you're in your trust of the system, whether you are you know, being supported by your teammates. Like I think Donovan he deserves credit for Darius's numbers in the clutch.
I does think Mobili deserves credit for his numbers in the clutch, Darius's ability to play off of those guys and keep defenders guessing on am I going to pass it to mobiley Am I going to pass it to Alan. I have to account for Donovan Mitchell that all of those factors contribute to him being so good in this spot. So I don't think it is as simple as, oh, you know, he just built this way, right.
I do think, you know, like sometimes it's not built this way. But a lot of it is your mentality. Like I do you think there are guys who you don't want to shoot, like because you're not sure they're gonna, you know, get tight in a big moment. I do think there is some part of that that guys have to work through. But like that's the experience of reps. You know, you take your first game winning shot, You're probably gonna be pretty nervous walking on that floor out
at the time out you take. You get a lot of reps in these situations over the you know, four or five years DG's been in the league. Well, then it gets a lot easier, you know, you just it gets a little bit more routine. Then you have the culture piece of if I take a shot that is in miss is my coach going to be side eyeing me?
Yeah?
Are my teammates going to be side eyeing me? I mean, if if there's been a criticism levied against Lebron over the course of his career that I thought was fair is like, man, you mess up with him three or four times in a row, you're just not going to get the ball anymore, you know, Like and like guys, who are who might you know, Like if he doesn't trust you to hit the open three, it's just like
kind of devastating. And I do think they're like so like there's all these different factors that come into how you're going to play. It's do you have a good, you know, offensive system that you can depend on. Do you have the talent, do you have the reps, Do you have the confidence? Do you have the culture that
will support you when you fail? Because you're gonna fail a lot, Like I mean, most people shoot, like you know, some of the best players in NBA history shoot like forty percent from the field and game winning situations if that, because this stuff is really really those are going to be the most difficult shots in the game always. So I just think it's this big top cocktail of factors that you know, for whatever reason, uh, they got the right alchemy for Darius this year.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. You know, joked about it a little bit on the last podcast that Hey they're they're just keeping these games close, and they're having comeback just so that they can practice these late game scenarios right, just so that they can get the reps and get that money.
I don't think Darius agrees, because he basically said to Serena, I'm sick of comebacks.
Can think of the low starts, which you know, I looked into it. The Calves prior to the All Star Break, with the number two team in first quarter net rating, they outscored opponents by these sixteen point seven points per one hundred possessions. In that time. Since the All Star Break, they are only seventh in first quarter net rating plus seven point three. So yeah, they have been worse to start off games, and I think some of that has
been focused more than anything. I think part of it is, hey, Darius isn't shooting well, Donovan isn't shooting well, Tie isn't shooting well. When that's the case, you're going to have a little bit of a slump, you're going to be a little uneven.
But you know, as we said on the last podcast, though really nice to be winners of fifteen in a row when you're slumping.
No kidding, you know, It just goes to show you how high the floor is. And it's funny because you look at how good the Calves have been in the clutch this season. They are twentieth in terms of how many clutch games they've been in, but they are number one clutch wins. They have twenty wins in the clutch this season, right, sorry, twenty two wins in the clutch this season. The outscore opponents by thirty seven point nine
points per one hundred possessions. In those scenarios, they have a one to thirty nine point five offensive rating and a one to one point six d rating.
That is just have it. An offensive rating in the clutch eleven points better than the best offensive player of his generation in Nikolay Jokic is pretty freaking phenomenal.
It's this team's pretty damn good, Carter. I don't know if you've heard some rumors about it, but they they get it done. And you know the funny thing with Darius two, you look at what he's done in the clutch this season. I do think that there is a difference between the last five minutes within five points and the last minute of the game when everything is on the line and you're within five points, so I was like, let's filter that down. How's he doing in the last minute.
He is shooting seven of nine from the field, three of three from three, and sixteen of twenty from the free throw line. Again, all of those misses basically coming versus Houston.
It's gonna be a real bummer that he's not gonna win Clutch Player of the Year, which is an award I never cared about because it only has existed for like two years. But just on the back of the Cavs haven't played enough clutch minutes. Yeah, you know, because they are twenty seventh. They've only played ninety three minutes in the clutch so far this season. And you know, the Knicks were in took close games every five minutes, are eighth. So Brunston's gonna win it, and that's fine.
The silly thing about that is they have the most clutch wins. They have the most clutch wins this season.
We have the most everything, justin.
Why do you get punished for entering clutch time another team's close to you and you punch them in the mouth and you get out of that clutch time? Why is it a benefit and why Is it a reflection of you know, your nerves, the steel and your ability to get it done in the clutch. If you mess around, let that team hang around and go down to the wire pad those stats less efficiently. Why is that?
You want to know the real answer? Right, Maybe the real answer is is not that serious of an award.
You're probably right. They probably just filter who has the most clutch points this season and that's it.
Yeah, they just made it up. They made it up like five minutes ago, made it up for as long as clutch time exists in an NBA game. You know what, Carter, just because something hasn't been around a long time doesn't mean it doesn't have value.
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Oh man, what a year. What a year.
But we talked about the win. We talked about you know, Darius and how it was a bit of a top heavy performance. But I think we would be not doing our jobs if we weren't giving credits to the bigs. Kevin Mowbley and Jared Allen were fantastic last night.
Yeah, they were unbelievable. I mean Jared especially. I mean Kenny said Jared was the MVP for them, and I couldn't agree more. I thought he was the biggest reason that they were locking Brooklyn down on the other end of the floor. I thought his rebounding was phenomenal. I thought his finishing was phenomenal, both hands, ducking through, catching on the boot, move, finishing at the ram, get into the line. I got eleven free throws justin you know, they don't win that game in a game where they
can't hit the broadside of the barn. They ten to forty two from three. They don't win that game without some freebies. And you know, JA hitting nine of his eleven is like really really important. So particularly when you know there's concerns about how's the hand doing, He's going just left a little bit more. Yeah, And I want to talk about that because I just think we generally should have a rest conversation and and you know, how
how to attack the rest of the season. Seventeen games left, but uh yeah, I mean the hand definitely still is not all the way right. So the fact that he really I thought, I thought he, you know, Darius was the the sizzle. Jared was the steak in that win. He was phenomenal. Evan also very very good, just had a bit of a quieter second half.
Yeah, Evan was that nice tall glass of wine that complimented the steak.
That's nice. Let's just keep this analogy going. Yeah, yeah, Jarry's phenomenal. Yeah.
I thought Jared was really really good on the night. I noticed early on, you know, going back to that hand, there was a couple of times where he had the right hook and kind of forced his way back to the left to go up that way. So that's you know, when we're doing the body doctor stuff that that's the kind of stuff that I really noticed.
Prestling Gardens and the YouTube chat just said o'koro was the green beans.
Oh, he was absolutely the green beans. Well stock taken asparagus, you know, yeah, no little you know, graded parmesan on the asparagus. Yeah. I thought that's exactly what he brought to the table, which, you know, what what a perfect before you know, I'll get back to the Bigs in a moment, but you know, they jog my memory here,
what a perfect game. After our conversation about o'coro about how the way he's been used makes us less reliant on the three point shot to determine whether or not he's going to have an effective game, he goes oh five from the three point line. But everybody that watched that game saw the impact that Okoro had. He was making the right reads as a passer, He got three offensive rebounds, he got some steals. The defensive impact was
absolutely there. I thought it was a terrific game from o'corl And as much as I would have liked some of those threes to drop, I thought it was just a perfect encapsulation of what we talked about on the last podcast.
Yeah, he was phenomenal. Honestly, he was so phenomenal that every time Cam Thomas got up a shot where he wasn't being guarded by o'coro, I was kind of sitting on my couch being like, what are we doing? Go put the guy who guards him on him.
Ever since, ever since Terry Rogier fell off a cliff, Cam Thomas is now that guy that just kind of freaks me out every time shot.
Yeah, he's terrifying, so, like you know, and whether it was Darius, whether it was Meyrill, whether whoever it was, Cam Thomas just was shooting like they weren't there, you know, And when o'corra was on them, it changed the changed his night, you know, and I just I wanted to see more. I thought he was really really impactful defensively. I think you're right that it was kind of the perfect follow up to our conversation where he was making
his impact all over. It's hard to go three of ten and zero for five from three as a starting shooting guard V plus seven if you're not doing everything else really really well.
Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I think the impact that he had on the defensive end, both the bigs, I thought they were terrific defensively. And you know, through this winning streak with the Cavs slumping a little bit, I think it's noteworthy to kind of point out the issues are kind of coming on the offensive end, right. They've fallen off just a little bit in their consistency there. They've had a few off shooting nights You'll look at since the All Star break. They still do have the
number one net rating since the All Star Break. Makes sense. They haven't lost a game, but they're third offensively and they are number two in defense. They've been better on defense than they have been offensively, and I think some of that is they've been very healthy. Right, They've had both bigs consistently. Isaac Okoru is back playing within the lineup.
DeAndre Hunter has undoubtedly had an impact on the defensive end, and just even when they're slumping, even when they're not playing particularly well on the offensive end and they're falling behind, usually they're falling behind because the shots aren't falling in the offense. Isn't there. Maybe they've had a couple turnovers and gave up fast break fast break points or an offensive rebound, but it generally hasn't been. Hey, these guys
aren't trying on the defensive end. The consistent effort on the defensive side of the floor has been what's allowed them to get back into these games and ultimately win them.
Can I know a little something something? What's that most All Star Break? Oklahoma City thunder sixteenth in defense? You know, Carter, if you know what? And what I'm gonna say is a very take, motivated take. It's not the most good self aware. That's good self aware. That the most objective take I've ever thrown out there. Maybe playing two bigs on defense isn't as easy as everyone says it is.
Okay, I'm glad that's the angle you took. I was going to say, you know, cuz you.
Know home Grin gets back, Everyone's like, oh, with him at the four and Hardenstein at the five, no one's going to be able to score on them. And I mean, I'm a it's not like I've looked at the lineup data. Again, I'm not this is not a good faith take, but like, I just think it's noteworthy that maybe not everyone can do it the way we do it.
I think it's a fair point. Now looking at the numbers, now, chet and Hernstein have played one hundred and forty three minutes together. They have a one to fifteen defensive rating in that time plus twelve point three nets. So offense has been crushing at one twenty seven, but the defense hasn't necessarily been there.
And maybe it's really maybe it's hard to lose all the mobility and switchiness of a Jared Allen Evan Mobley front court. Maybe it's a little harder when you're you're when one of your two bigs is really a drop big and the other one is a switch big. Yeah.
I think that's a big part of what's made the defense so special, is that Mobile and Allen both are able to guard at the perimeter. I think that mobility, even it has an impact on the offensive end right Like they will play five outs sometimes for a possession or two even with both bigs there, because they trust their ability to set those screens above the three point line, catch the ball on the move, and make the right reads and react in those spots. He can trust everybody
to do that. Isaiah Hartenstein is a terrific passer. His feel for the game is phenomenal. You can get him on the ball in the move and he'll throw lobs to the dunker spot some of you know, the two man game with him and Chet has been really fun in the games I watch. That doesn't always translate to the defensive end. As he said, he is kind of a true drop big. Is this one, as you said,
a great faith take? No, but I absolutely not. But I do think let's just you know, use it as a means to give our bigs credit because they have been phenomenal, and I think how seamless that has been on the defensive end of the court since day one really goes to show you just how unique that pairing is.
Yeah, they are so freaking phenomenal. They've been phenomenal from the second we put them together. And I think assuming that like sized players, even like talented players, could just immediately replicate that even with better defensive personnel at the front of the defense.
That's a great point as well.
It's just not that easy to to especially for a team like that that you know, gives up a lot of corner threes and stuff like that. It's hard for bigs to recover out like that. It's hard for them to dig in on penetration and then rEFInd their man who's relocated to a different point of the three three point. It just matters. So I again, I'm not my best
faith take, but I do. But you're right as to use it as a means of kind of propping up our boys who have been who have needed no adjustment to be great together on that end of the floor.
Yeah, and since Donovan joined the team, we're talking about a six thousand possession sample of the two bigs together. They have a one to eleven defensive rating in that time plus seven net. They've been phenomenal, right, And you know, there's always been those concerns of hey, how's that going to work with the two guards and the two bigs, Right, They're like, are those two bigs out there just to
cover for the guards? And you look at the minutes that the four of them have played together over these last three years, four thousand possessions, the defense is actually better when the two guards are out there. It's a one ten point eight defensive rating, one nineteen offensive rating. That core four has been fantastic in their time together. We had a bit of a lull last season, and
I continue to you know, yell from the mountaintops. The sample this season is dramatically smaller than the one the year prior, and they have not been healthy for any of it. There has been hamstring injuries for the guards. There's been mobilely coming off a knee surgery. There were so many factors that when we had.
Knee surgery last year and we just kind of didn't no one even acknowledged it. Really, I forgot about it until you just said it.
It's you know, it's one of those things that always drives me crazy as someone that listens to national podcasts looking for reasons to get upset. Any time that like a little nuance is brought up with one team and then a massive thing like surgery gets overlooked with the calves drives me nuts. It's like, well, you know, Payton Pritchard got stuck in traffic on Tuesday, so it's it's okay that he had a bit of an off shooting game.
Well, you know, traffic in Boston can be really rough justin.
I've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard that many times.
I'll say it. Can we talk a little rest based, you know, now that we are on the health train. I just generally wanted to discuss this because, you know, Darius, ever since he falls, has that hard fall, hasn't quite been himself. Fourth quarter and Nomal standing uh and Jarrett in the post game basically said, yeah, my hand still hurts, still kind of hurts a lot, okay, and it's hard for me to hard for me to do power dribbles and stuff like that. I don't actually want to miss quotehim.
I don't remember if he said a lot, but he said it still hurts. You know, it's hard for me to do power dribbles with that hand compared to my left and stuff like that. And you know, they are, you know, a weird kind of semi precarious spot where they're trying to lock up home court through the entire playoffs. And there are two games up on Okay, see as we speak, going into going into Wednesday night, they have
a chance. I mean, they look very likely Frank to set a new franchise record for wins, and they're flirting with a seventy win season. They have to finish fifteen and two, which is about the pace they've played at all year. And my question to you is, like, I know Jared really wanted to play all ed two, but like and and Darius, you know, I think definitely wants to prove that, you know, you know, his toughness and
all that stuff. Do you start doing some targeted rests up and down with these guys who are a little banged up, you know, even ty Jerome. If you had told me ty Jerome is going to get a rest game last year, oh okay, yeah, go ahead, Like last year, I would have been like, oh my god, like.
What, Yeah, the standard for rest game was a little higher last year, and guys were playing a whole lot more much.
It is more like normally role players don't get those rest games because they don't play. You know, he was we weren't sure if he was going to be in the rotation at the beginning of the year, So you know, part of that's you know, the injury history, right, you you want to give a guy like that the opportunities to rest in particularly, as I said, was in quite a bit of a shooting slump the last six games.
So but I think I didn't give those conversations. I think you have those conversations.
I actually want to frame a question to you because I think we've already discussed like if a guy is like hurt hurt, you absolutely should sit him. Yeah, And if a guy is healthy, healthy, he should play. That has generally been our party line for these guys who have some slightly nagging injuries like or things that like aren't stopping them from playing, wouldn't stop them from playing in the postseason. But like you know, and you know, and they're telling you I'm fine, I'm good to play. Yeah,
those people do you say, do you still go? I hear that you feel good to play. We're going to give you, uh, you know, we're going to find spots like Friday where we have two days off and you know we can find we can keep you it in Cleveland for basically five six days and let you just rest whatever malady you have. Like, are you doing that? Because I think I am.
Yeah. I think you need to have those conversations with the player. I think you need to. You know, we obviously don't know the particulars. No, I'm very I'm very far from a professional athlete. But the one thing I do have some very far from a professional trainer.
We're not there either.
But the one thing I do actually have way too much experience with is rehabbing injuries. And sometimes you do have you know, nagging ailments and more exercises is part of the prescription. Hey, you're not going to hurt it by it by doing this. You got to work your way through it. You know, sometimes rest is going to
work in the opposite direction. Now, I think when it comes to something like a finger heeling, I trust them that they got the wrap on there, but you know, you can't do more damage I don't think Darius would be playing if it was a situation where hey, if he's playing, he's going to do more damage to it. But I think you do have those conversations with the guys of hey, we have an opportunity to give you a rest here, that this might be beneficial. Are you open to it?
Right?
Like advocating for it, because ultimately you don't want to go completely against the players witches, but you have to advocate in the right direction. And I actually think this is one of those spots where having a veteran like Tristan Thompson is probably really valuable. Tristan in the sixteen seventeen season, not only was he coming off the long Finals run, but he you know, sacrificed to play for
Team Canada that offseason. He was keeping that iron Man streak going during the sixteen seventeen season, and I eventually he just wore down and he did have to miss some time, and he wasn't himself in the twenty seventeen playoffs. You know, he wasn't moving around the same way that he did in the past. It was never himself again. He bounced back a little bit in eighteen. I think he you know he had. You know, we don't win that game against Indiana in the first round without him
having one of those throwback performances. But I think it is unbelievable, especially when it comes to Tristan. Don't don't you worry about that, man. I'm going to remember that my my Canadian bias here. But I do think Tristan is a good advocate for this. Of Hey, I had this goal. I wanted to keep the iron Man streak going. It probably didn't work in my favor. I don't think
I ever have heard him speak to it. But just thinking back to, you know, an example of this and a guy that's currently in the locker room, maybe that is something that they can go to. Again, we're speculating because we don't know, you know, what the condition is. But I do think there's going to be opportunities to get these guys down rest, down the stretch. I think those opportunities exist because they have worked so hard this season.
I had a bit of a dumb thought. I'm just gonna say it. You're probably gonna roll your eyes. It does kind of make me feel like, hey, guys, if you're gonna do this and when you get to the postseason. You better take care of business in these series, like don't have a seven game war of attrition for no reason, Like, yeah, don't play with your food, get sweeps, get five game series, and get out so you can recover and get ready for the next one. I don't know, was that was that completely moron?
Okay, here's the thing, Carter, because you're making me think you had that sit down with Kenny to start the season. We might need to have another one of those opportunities before the playoffs where you share the strategy of winning games if possible. Yeah, with Kenny. I think I think that might blow his mind.
I think it's saying from an injury, from a healing perspective, Yes, like if you're gonna if like I was just thinking, like, because where if you're not going to do the rest thing where your opportunity is going to present themselves, it's going to be sitting while other teams are in knockdown, drag out series.
Yeah, I think.
But glad to know it was indeed a moronic take. I'm comfortable justin I asked it's you know, it's a little obvious, but I think you're right, and you know, to your point.
Not only is that good from a rest standpoint, I think we need to see it. Right. We haven't seen them have a dominant playoff series. Them smoking a team in the first round or you know, if you play a Milwaukee in the second round, I think that's going
to be a challenge. But if you handle them comfortably in five games, not only is beating Jannis a feather in your cap, that's that's a real statement that when you take care of business against a very good team, that that is something that you can actually you know, that's going to lift up your confidence. You're going to feel better about your chances going into a Boston series.
So I think taking care of business from a rest standpoint, from a confidence standpoint, all of that's so important because we're talking about a team that hasn't been to a conference finals. Not a lot of teams have, you know, not gone to a conference finals and go on to win a championship. I think that's one of those spots where we once again have a comparison to the Golden
State Warriors in twenty fifteen. But I think the Calves taking care of business, giving themselves those rest opportunities and building on that confidence is a big deal.
Sorry, I had to put you full screen. There's a daddy long legs crawling on my wall. It's a big ass spider and full disclosure. The single screen freaked me out a little bit. I was like, Oh, does he think I'm making a good point?
Are you trying to clip this for social I was going to wrap up my point, but you just put me on single screen.
Brother. Let me tell you, every time I put you on single screen, it's because I'm moving out a frame.
Okay, that's very good to know. That's very good to know. I mean, so Phil, Phil, Yeah, I at least I had the right instinct to fill there. And you know, I'm proud. Struggling a little bit, I'm having trouble talking today. I got dent to stuff I gotta do on Friday, a little bit annoying. I'm tired Daylight savings even though I don't have a kid carter. So you know, thank you for once again putting me on the spot.
Listen, man, it's a I saw a spider on my wall. I had to get rid of it. I don't know it was going to distract me for the rest of the podcast. That's totally fair.
Is there anything you are so you know we cover the rest topic. Is there anything you're looking for from this Memphis game? You know, even without Darius, that was a tougher game in Cleveland. I think it's obviously a different animal without Jared Jackson Junior. He has been their best player this season. But that's still a good team that can potentially test you here.
I don't know, man, I no, I mean, I want to see what they do with jaw, especially if Darius doesn't play, you know, is it gonna be more Isaac o Quoro on him? But really, I just I'm just kind of now counting wins, like I just want to see wins. I don't actually really care too much how we get up the mountain because this team has really shown me almost this bad podcast pressed into set, but I do feel like the team has just shown me just about everything else that I want to see, Like,
I just want to see them. I want to see how far this wind streak can go. I'd love, you know, I how long does the wind streak go? Before you think seventy is possible? Before you not just possible, but like you think we're getting it. Because I was thinking watching them when they were down eighteen to Brooklyn, I was like, man, I don't know if they're going to be able to get to seventy if they lose here.
You know, I think they got to win seven more before I think seventy is possible.
I'm gonna go if the wind Streak gets to twenty. If they get to twenty, which is absurd sentence, if the wind Streak gets to two, that means they only got to go ten in two to close the year. Yeah.
See, I'm thinking it's got to be eight in two. Like the last ten games go eight in two. You can do that. A game eighty two probably going to see guys rest. You know. That's That's kind of where I'm at. Not often that you're you're more optimistic than me, but I think you know, tying into that your thoughts about Memphis there the real test the rest of the
way is playing against themselves. I think we have seen them get it done against sow Casee, We've seen them get it done against Boston, We've seen them get it done against the best teams in the league. The individual matchup questions aren't as interesting now. I think their main opponent is themselves they're playing against the streak. They're playing against this very difficult schedule where for the rest of the month they are not going to play in the
same city consecutive nights. They are always going to be on the road. You are playing against the NBA schedule, and you're playing against the streak, and you're playing against yourselves, you're playing against complacency because you have already wrapped up the number one seed in the Eastern Conference. All these human components are the major factors here more than oh, well, what are they going to do tactically against the John Moran No, Like, we know that they can get it done.
We know that they can defend just about any team in the league. We know they can score on just about any team in the league. It's about how long can they maintain this consistency?
Man, I really want seventy wins? Man, Like that is like such a special threshold. A cross like that is like, I mean, you'd be the third team in the because like, here's where I keep going back to all these stats, like the second team in history to have three twelve game win streaks, you know, the sixth team to have two fifteen game win streaks, that's cool, but aren't necessarily wrapped around a complete success. You know, like like you know, no one, no one remembers the O six Suns for
how insanely dominant they were. We remember they were fun, you know, and very good. You know what I mean. They're like they weren't like a like I feel like the teams that win that you know are in that sixty nine, seventy seventy one, seventy two, seventy three range. Yeah, those are like those teams where you just you really remember them because it wasn't This is over an eighty
two game sample. You know, they didn't get hot for a month or a month and a half, like, and like, it just feels like another level of crazy on It's like a hat on a hat on a hat on a hat of all the crazy fun that this season has been. So it'd be really fun to see him hit it. I don't think they will, but it'd be really fun to see them hit it.
Yeah, I'm with you to some extent because I I guess I haven't thought about seventy a whole lot.
I don't know why I've thought about it so much, but I've been thinking about it since like like the forty game mark.
Yeah, because I just want to get the team record, like that's been the only thing. But you're right that that would be significant the coward in me, and you know, chat feel free to boom me. You know, if you're listening on Spotify, there's a common section there, you can boom me there as well. I'm a little cowardly, and I think having seventy is just going to put that
extra a little bit of target on your back. And I kind of are a coward kind of still like that even as the one seed, we're going to be the underdog going into the Eastern Conference finals. I like being in that angle.
Hold on. Let me let me reframe it for you, fella. Could you imagine how disrespected that locker room will feel as an underdog in a series after winning seventy games in a season. Feed off that come on, brother, join me, join me.
Okay, Okay, I see where you're coming from. Let's let's get seventy. Let's get it done. Let's let's shock the world. Let's beat Boston, let's beat Okay, see if they get that far, you know, they got to figure out that too big thing. It's uh I've heard years and years of content saying that that's impossible to make work. Uh, so we'll see if they can get it done. I'm with you. Let's let's get seventy. Let's put the pressure on ourselves and let's deliver.
Yes, come on, bro, let's go.
I can't believe you said nobody remembers that the six Sons how dominant they were. I was giving your first round details from twenty eighteen about what Tristan Thompson did you. Of course I'm going to remember. I remember the Phoenix Suns.
Do you remember the beauty of them? I don't remember them feeling unbeatable.
Oh man, it's back then, regular season basketball, anytime a team was rolling, and I love that team. I thought that they could win. You know, I thought the on nine Cavs were absolutely going to win. Oh six Sons? Are you kidding me? Rajah Bell, Boris Diao, Sean Marion k I.
Really don't think I'm a smart man because my memory is so horrible.
Dude. I feel like every legend James Jones was on that team. I'm very sure everything before I was like nineteen years old didn't even happen. I don't remember anything, no details. Well, you've done a number on your body, buddy, all all your habits, all your recreational habits that have fried your memory mind.
I wouldn't even have that big of recreational habits. I just think I'm stupid.
You're I'm throwing stones from my glasshouse. But my one memory is going to be basketball stuff, little details, especially those teams, those teams I had such an emotional connection to, and I think that's what's made me so excited about this season. This team has kind of reinvigorated that real emotional connection. A team that just no matter how they're playing on a given night, they find a way to
get it done. They play such a fun style. You know, they really do remind me of kind of those beautiful basketball teams, whether it be the six Sons that are doing something that I.
Got a little take for you because our boy domin Rangoula mentioned that that what in that Bucks game that you know, watching the Calves reminds him of the beautiful game Spurs, and I was thinking about how I agree with that compliment. I don't think it's like a sacrilegious thing to say, but it's actually a crazier compliment because those Spurs were like in their mid thirties up and down the roster. Yeah, these Caves are in their mid twenties.
They're playing this way without the benefit of like seven or eight years of reps. Isn't that crazy?
That reminds me. We got tagged in a tweet where Darren Patrick was talking about the and how they need to be talked about more this season. But he was saying, you know, they're not sexy, they're not fun to watch. They kind of play like the twenty fourteen Spurs, where like I think.
He was I'm gonna defend him. I think he was more saying that's what the national media would say about them.
Maybe whatever's point was, I at least appreciate the consistency of I don't think this is fun or you know, there's a narrative that's not fun. But it's like the twenty fourteens, perst because that team was absolutely fun. That ball movement was absolutely fun. Running through you know, Evan Mobley, just like Tim Duncan, is a lot of fun. Having dynamic guards that can get it done, getting those threes up,
generating clean looks. The Cavs play beautiful beautiful team basketball, and there are more than their fair share of individual highlights, whether it be Darius closing in the clutch, whether it's Donovan dunking on everybody, whether it's Evan Mobley or Jared Allen randomly choosing violence on Brook Lopez or other victims. It has been the most fun season that I watched as a cas man.
We might need to resurrect the Slim Duncan nickname for ev I really liked that one.
Did you like Slim Duncan or Evan Garnett more? I liked I like Slim Duncan better. I thought it was funnier, even though the garden Net comp might be a little more apps. I just I've always liked the you know, I've always liked the demeanor comp more than the play style comp with Evan. Yeah, because the demeanor is all Timmy. It's it's much more tim You're You're right, I I I do really really enjoy that comp. And I enjoy these podcasts.
Buddy.
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