This brow, this crowd of fowl.
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dot com Slash Calves. The Cleveland Cavaliers were unable to capitalize on their success in Game three, suffering a blowout loss to the Indiana Pacers.
Uh.
Joining me today is my co host that also just can't seem to get right during this playoff journey, Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how are you feeling, buddy?
Not good?
Uh, voices in rough shape. Turns out, when your son coughs into your mouth for a straight week, chances of you getting sick are pretty good.
That sounds about right. I really wanted to blame you for getting me sick, but ultimately I wasn't. I didn't get sick from you because I got COVID for the first time, you know, two weeks ago or a week ago. Whenever that was and you didn't have it, so I couldn't blame you. That was a little disappointing. Speaking of disappointing, I would say that Game four for the Cleveland Cavaliers is probably the most disappointing result that we've had from
this group when it comes to playoff performances. We've heard a lot after their Game three win about how they have to treat every single game like a Game seven, that there was going to be an appropriate amount of intensity, and I don't think, you know, listening to Kenny Atkinson, listening to the player's post game, I don't think anybody was happy with their effort.
I think when you have a game that goes.
That poorly, it's a failure top to bottom, right from the first man to the fifteenth man to the coaching staff. They did not come out with the necessary intensity and have now put themselves in a serious hole when it comes to the series.
Yeah, it's.
You know, it's just a litany of problems. I'm not ready to say most disappointing game of the era of the era. Actually, okay, I think I was. I was so mad Game five against the Knicks when it just came out. It was just the same game again.
Yeah, and you know, I think what we're going to see is does history repeat themselves?
Right?
They are they able to come out in game five regardless of who's available and put forward a better effort, because to me, the result wasn't you know the disappointing thing. I know, when we were talking before the game, I didn't have a great feeling about Game four. I I just kind of had a feeling that Indiana was going to come out with some counterpunches. I was worried about, you know, how guys were going to respond physically to
attempting to play through game three. But what we got in game four I don't think has anything to do with injuries. Like you might say, cumulively, they were a little more tired because of the energy they've had to expend themselves. But we have seen better effort from this team in every game this series. All three games, the first three games of the series, the Calves won the battle on the boards, they won the points in the paints,
second chance opportunities. You know, there was physicality. I think India had the physicality advantage on the perimeter.
So far in this series. But the Calves were.
Really killing them on the inside, and that flipped in Game four. I thought, you know, defensive intensity dropped off to where we saw basically in that first half of Game one, where the Calves just didn't look ready for the series. I thought the rotations defensively were poor. There really wasn't a whole lot that you could hang your
hat on in this game. And you know, it's one of those spots where you know it, as I said, it's a failure from the top down, and you know, because of the situation that they've put themselves in losing those first two games at home all of a sudden, what typically in the playoff series would be a successful weekend where you go and you get one of those road games as the team with home court advantage. Typically that is a successful three to four kind of swing
through a playoff series. But because of the you know, the hole that they put themselves in to start this series, you did not have the margin for error, You did not have the room to have a result like this on you know the scorecard.
Yeah, that's I mean, that's why you don't lose games one and two at home, yep, in a series. I mean, they have the rare advantage of you know, potentially being able to play to the last three at home. You know, normally, when you're down three to one, it's you know, it's like twenty sixteen where you had to you know, win a Game seven on the road. But honestly, bro, I'm not even thinking about game six is or Game seven's right now.
It's all about five. I just I just want to.
See them show up with some some some pride, some attention to detail, and like I you know, I've been thinking a lot about this series and like, well, obviously, you know, if it, if it goes the way it's trending, we'll do a more proper eulogy. But I am disappointed right now about how the team's lack of I guess, readiness for for the things that are getting thrown at them. Uh,
you know, I I just don't. I don't feel like they've been a terribly you know, mentally resilient team in this series, which I think I'm pretty disappointed by, just because I thought that was what I was so impressed with all year. You know, they didn't seem ready for that, for that Pacers offense to start, and weren't able to really ever get their feet under them in Game one. In this game, it's like it almost looked like the players were like, wait, they're going to adjust to Ari zone.
So I just feel like they haven't been sharp and all the while, they've probably on balance outplayed Indie over the course of the series, you know, minute by minute. But it's just is kind of immaterial when you when you get to the results, and I think a lot of it comes to lack of attention to detail and lack of focus and lack of sharpness. You know. I was so impressed in Game three with how they were flashing to beat the press, with how they were when
they got across half court. They were pushing and turning the corner and getting runs to the to the to get to the rim. You know, they just had none of that in this game. I mean, they would they would get across that they'd spend seven point nine nine seconds to get across half court, and then they'd stop and survey, and it's like, well, that's that's exactly what the press wants you to do. Yeah, you know, And I think that's where I'm I was really disappointed by
that game. Was the degree to which the Calves seeded every part of the game to what Indy wanted to do and what INDI wanted to happen.
Yeah, I feel like they haven't stuck with their identity so far in this series. And you know, obviously, when you have turmoil in terms of who's available and to what degree that they are available, you know they're in the lineup, but they're not there physically. That's going to have an impact. But I don't think it justifies what we saw in Game four, because we saw them, with the guys that were available for Game four, come out
with a much better effort. Right, Like you said, the aggressiveness in beating that press, how they would come to the ball, how you know they would fight through it and make sure that they were maintaining tempo, not allowing Indy to dictate the terms of engagement with their perimeter pressure. We saw that in Game three, just like in Game one. I'm actually going to disagree with you a little bit. I thought they did find their footing in Game one.
They ultimately took the lead, they just weren't able to kind of hang on to that, and obviously Mobile and Hunter are getting hurt in the fourth had something to do with that, but I think what we saw in game one was more understandable. Right, You're coming off a laugher of a series where you didn't have to play with intensity and you get punched in the mouth by a team that did play, you know, in some tough games in the first round. That disappointing, but it's understandable.
What we saw in game four is almost reverting back to where they were to start the series. And when you have the experience, when you've had the reps of playing against this team, you know what their strengths and weaknesses are at that point. That's what made it so disappointing to me. And you know, I just I don't like the fact that, you know, we're in a situation where what they needed to do are things that we've seen.
It just seemed like it got lost in the shuffle and for gone, and just like Game one was understandable, you know, frustrating, but understandable. This type of result happens in playoff series. You had, you know, game six of the first round in twenty eighteen with lebron you lost by thirty five to Indiana. Game two of the twenty sixteen finals in Golden State, you lost by thirty three. Every time one of these, you know, thirty to forty point losses, even though you.
Know time got it down to twenty.
Anytime you have one of these games, it always feels like, oh, we don't belong in the series. It always feels bad. But again, if you win game two, it feels like this is a successful weekend.
That's you know.
We can sit here and we say flush that down. We break down the game the same way we're doing now, saying you know what happened, Why did they let go of the rope? Why was there not the attention to detail and the focus. But because of the situation that they've put themselves in, you know, this stings so much more.
Yeah, yeah, And I do think there is something. I think part of the reason I was so apoplectic after Game two. Privately, I pulled I pulled it together for the pod, even though it was a sad boy.
Right, I was so.
I was so distraught because I know what a kitchen sink game looks like, and the Calves had to play two in a row just to get the gate the series to one two because they blew one of their kitchen sink games.
And I think that hanged and and I do think there.
Was something to that where you know, everyone can say from a distance and like, I don't know if this sounds excusey or not, people will, I'm sure tell me. But we can say play with desperation. You know, they said in the post game after Game three, we didn't do anything.
We got to play with desperation.
I do think the brained is led up a little bit, you know. I mean that's why no one's ever come back from three to zero, you know, and three to one is so rare because it's hard to play desperate night after night after night after night. You know, eventually your brain chemistry does want to revert to something calmer, you know, it wants to find it's you know, if desperation is one side of the the you know, the mental spectrum, your brain wants equilibrium.
It wants to to chill, you know.
And you could tell that that was what the Cavs were doing, you know, they were, uh you know some of these pocket passes to Jared Allen where Nimhart is just able to dig down against the drop and blow up the pass, like that's just Donovan running a set. Like it's like it's January, you know, not the level of force that you need them to play with. I'm not trying to go with Donovan. He's been amazing in the series. It's just a collective example of like what
desperation play looks like and what it doesn't. And like I've seen a lot of people griping about the physicality from Indy. I'm just not going to be one of them, you know. I mean there's stuff that annoys me. You know, I'm glad Mathern got tossed.
It is the whole thing in a game.
Yeah, which again was exactly what I said after Game three. If you're going to be the guy that does dirty plays, you can't also be the guy that flops.
Yeah, sorry, but sorry, but uh you know, so, like there's stuff I don't like about it, but like I'm sorry, guys, we want a championship. Pull and grab and bump and bruising yep, people who preferred to play a finesse game and run around off off pin downs and stuff, and like you can't Cav's got twenty first half free throw attempts. You know, they the refs were calling stuff and I don't think that is a I think that's the thing you got to be able to overcome as an offense
if you ever want to be worth anything in this league. Yeah, and we have seen the Calves continue to have that problem, you know, when they're really really focused, when they're really really locked in, when they're really really optimized, everyone's healthy, everyone's doing a good we've seen them be able to beat up that kind of pressure turn it against them. You know, they did that to Miami in the first round and you know Game of the Year against Okay. See, they did that to Okay.
See. They've done it by times in this series. Yes, you know.
They Brandon in the chat was like, where's the one eighteen offensive rating? I was promised. I was like, it's like one seventeen or it was for through three games, you know. But it's the consistency. It's doing it under duress, it's doing it every play, and they just haven't been able to muster that kind of effort against that kind of pressure.
Yeah.
And the interesting thing, you know, people are going to overreact to some aspects of this game, right Like I would say, through seven games of the playoffs, the Calves largely own the interior. They've owned the glass. They own the point paints in the paint points in the pain. Jared Allen has been fantastic. He was terrible in Game four, Like and in a lot of ways, I sometimes feel like Jared's the Canarian the coal mine in terms of
the Caves overall health. Right Like when Game four against Miami, when Jared gets that steal and the breakaway to start the game, we say, Okay, well, yeah, they're they're locked.
In that this is going to be easy win for the Calves.
When he struggles like this, it's almost like he gets overwhelmed with the situation where there's so many breakdowns defensively and you know, just doesn't have the same impact. I'm not going to kill Jared for it because he has been exactly what we've needed throughout the playoffs prior to this game. I'm not going to kill Donovan for having a bad first half because you know, as you said,
it was consecutive kitchen sink games. I was thrilled with their effort in game two and how hard they played shorthanded. I was thrilled with what they did in game three. I'm not going to forget that because Game four was so frustrating but you know, they weren't able to sustain. And I think there's something to what you're saying about, you know, trying to maintain that desperation in all of
these matchups. But I do want to get your thoughts on the pressure on the perimeter, because we've seen them beat it at times in this series. We've seen them struggle with it at times in the regular season. We've seen them excel against it at times in the regular season. What do you think it is that makes it so difficult for them to sustain? Is it that they have to play with such an elevated level of focus and effort, and you know, just to make up for the fact
that they do have a smaller backcourt. What do you think it is that makes it so that something that we know that they're capable of doing versus these teams, they aren't able to reliably do it at the level we want to see.
Well, I guess you just got to look to you know, what the difference was when they have done it. Typically it's involved a Darius Garland who can Yeah, he's just fallen over running right now. You know, his feet just cannot paying through a calf issue. Uh, you know, Hunter can't grip the ball with his right hand. He's shot put in his jumpers right now, you know so?
Uh?
And then Ty who was kind of your change of pace, Like he was kind of your i'll hit you back option. If you're gonna ride me, you're at least going to get an elbow to your gut on the on the way. Uh as I turned the corner like Ty can't play right now?
Uh?
So you know you have all these different all the all the you know, usual suspects you'd look to for press breaking aren't there right now or in pressure breaking. And then also frankly, I got to go at.
The team a little bit. So those are those are my nice, nice excuses. Uh.
Evan Mobley's usage rate has dropped five percent in the postseason.
What a I mean?
This was your stick the entire offseason, which is, if you're going to have a small backcourt, you need to have front court initiation to be a release valve. And they're not doing it. I'm sorry. You can be as nice like nim Hard Anie Smith can be as good as they want on defense, They're getting away with Thomas Bryant minutes comfortably. I know, really, where's the I'm where's the team that bullied kalel Ware off the floor.
Here's the thing.
I'm really glad you brought this up because it's exactly what I have in mind.
Right, Like I.
Think, on the one hand of the coin, that is something that they need to focus on. Right, Like I think from an off season preparation standpoint, Donovan, I'm going to cut some slack because you know, he's been playing through the angle. He's been playing through the cap basically that whole cot.
And he's been a killer. He's the only one who's turned in the corner right now, right, I'm.
Going to cut him some slack there. I understand what's going on with with Darius. I actually think he's on a pretty decent job of turning the corner considering he's playing with one tire. But at the same time, I think that there is some physical maturity that he needs to continue to do. I think the same thing goes for Evan Mobley. I think this team needs to get
a little more physical on the perimeter. But what I will say is you understand that you have to maintain a level of focus and aggressiveness on the perimeter to counteract what teams are able to do from a length standpoint. One of the ways you can do that is involving your bigs. And I know we've disagreed at times in the past when it comes to Jared being like, oh, you know, he's kind of a function of the overall offense, You're not really running place for him. You can run
place for Jared. He is, you know, someone that's going to make smart decisions in the short role. I think we saw in the Miami series, as you said, when we were attacking kellel Ware, that is something that you can go to. And I think that has to be on both the guards and the coaching staff of making sure Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are being used, that they are being counted on at times to break the pressure.
Even when you're talking about the full court press. What is the intention of having Evan Mobley bring the ball up so many times throughout the regular season if that isn't a wrinkle that you are throwing to break the press. Yeah, Nie Smith and Emhard are going to be pressuring the guards as they're bringing it up and trying to make you use as much of the shot clock as possible.
Are they going to do the same thing. If it's Evan Mobley available as an outlets, Pascal Siakam'm going to start covering him, you know, ninety four feet.
I don't believe so, or at the very I guess if he wants to try, at the.
Very least, I would like to find out, right, Like, I think that that is something that you can go to in these spots. And as much as as much as I think the overall situation we're in in this series has to do with the injuries, right, Like, I don't think you lose those games at home if you're fully healthy, right, I think even if DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mobley don't get hurt in the fourth quarter of Game one, I think you win that game. If lane
violations get called properly, you win game two. That's all very frustrating, but the margins shouldn't have been that thin. And I think, you know, as much as the overall situation I believe has a lot to do with the injuries, what happened in Game four didn't and because it was things that it had looked like they had solved at already in this series that they kind of backtracked and backslid in like that's that to me is what makes
it very frustrating. And I think that's the type of stuff that's going to lead to some macro takeaways and reflection when you look back at whenever this playoff run ends.
Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, they're just not playing well enough to make me feel like you can just point to the injuries and like, I think the injuries trim their margin for error for sure, but like this is a team at the beginning of the series. Uh, we kind of said to each other, I don't know if we said on the pod, We're like, if Darius doesn't play, it's going to be hard, but
we we can still win this series. We should, you know, maybe I don't know if we said should, but I think we both kind of felt like they they had a really good shot to but like not playing like this, you know.
Games showed how much of a margin for there was,
Like in these a very very good team. The Cavs didn't shoot thirty percent in any of the first three games of the series, and they had chances to win every single one of these games, even you know, without Evan Mobley missing two of your top three players missing, you know, DeAndre Hunter, who's been essential, but Donovan Mitchell playing through you know, all the lower body ailments he has, it has shown their margin for error, like they should be a team that can you know, survive some you know,
postseason injuries and be able to be conservative with the management, which you know, I think we were hoping that they would be conservative when it came to Darius, but I think it's very clear that no, it's like.
No, it's just one of those things that didn't get better.
Yeah, it's one of those things that it took a lot to get it to the point where he could even you know, tough through it. And I'm not going to question his toughness that the guy that played twenty two minutes in the second half of a game with
a broken jaw on a mouthful of blood. He was playing down you know, the stretch of the season through this toe almen, Like, I'm not going to be questioning that, but you know, I do think even limited right, Like, I think one of the things that we've loved about Darius is getting Evan mobilely involved. And we want to see if you're playing through injuries and you're you're not
at one hundred percent. Can you find the counters? Can you do what Donovan's done, which is, hey, you know, I'm unfortunately every time that we've been in the playoffs with Donovan pretty much he's dealing with some sort of lower body ailmens and the three pointer hasn't really been there. But he's found ways to be so effective. He's managed to, you know, get that rim press. Sure, and you know, I think that's part of the growth and maturity process.
But from a Darius standpoint, the two man game with him and Evan Mobley like that got them to you know, a forty eight win pace before Donovan even got here when the two of them were playing right like, that is something that you can rely on.
That is one of the most.
Effective two man combinations of the last few years. Not utilizing Evan Mobley enough is really disappointing because at the very least I'd like to go down with the ship trying that right, Like, we understand how important that is for the future of this team and the future.
Of this group.
At least get those reps in right, Let's try to salvage this situation by doing that well.
And there's just like a little bit of like and I think one of the most disappointing things about the last game was like they completely just stop trying to run anything for anybody, right, I mean, it was just like, barely get the ball over half court, run a half a pick and roll, and try a Midtie. It's like, you know, like, hell, I don't care. Try a couple Evan post ups. He's gotten way better on the posts. He can get a switch yep and and try to
mash that and get to on the ball. You know, like a lot is correctly noted about this team's three point shooting falling off a cliff in this series. But I'm not gonna play the variance game here because not only I mean I haven't checked the wide open numbers.
I can look that for these.
Since game one, but I would argue that even their wide open ones aren't easy right now because they're taking so much effort to get to them. You know, Donovan missed one where he had to do like a very violent step back in game four. It's like, none of these threes are in balance and rhythm. No one gets catch and shoot threes except Max, and it's just like your process is just not leading to a shod diet that's worth putting your name one.
They're down to fifteen wide open threes per game. They're shooting twenty seven percent on those. But again, like that is such a far drop off from what we saw in the regular season when it came to this team, right, Like, they were a team that was in the regular season they got twenty five wide open threes per game. When they would play Indiana for the season, they got over twenty, right, And sure that twenty seven percent is going to be part of this.
Milwaukee get against them, That's what I want to know, because I felt like they were getting an open three whenever they wanted. And I know Yannis is great and we don't have a Yanis, but we have ways to make defenses break. And that's like, again, turn the freaking corner man.
Like Milwaukee got seventeen.
Like that Milwaukee team should not be generating more open threes than us. And I'll bet they hit more of them too, because they were open in rhythm, comfort types of shots.
Yeah, and yeah.
I mean I guess some of this, maybe I am playing the result a little and maybe it's hard like we maybe they should be shooting better but I'm also watching the game, and I'm watching Donovan uh you know empty. You know, like if you have like a big stamina meter for the for the game that reflects how tired you are, but you have like a possession by possession exertion meter. I feel like every Cavs three, they're they've expended their.
Per play exertion.
Yeah, so even if they get open, they're freaking having a you know, you know, get get get set up, really really think about getting a clean shot off.
It's just not easy.
And then you watch Indie and you know, it's just a parade of mostly rhythm threes. So I don't know what side I'm more disappointed in the defensive side or the offensive side.
Right now? I lean offense.
I do too, because I've I've always felt that's the problem, and I think it is fueling Indiana's perimeter game and transition game. You know how many miles turner trailer threes has he gotten in this series, just because Indi is just constantly in motion. But it just goes back to
the detail thing. Sorry, I'm just getting a little ranty, but like they you know, the floor balance isn't even good, you know, like I just I'm not seeing them do enough right for a team that I thought was ready to go compete for a championship, And like it's not over. They can absolutely clean this stuff up. They might not win the series even if they clean it up, by the way, because the margins are so thin now, But like that's what I.
Want to see, you know.
I felt like I really watched them give a give a god's honest effort in Boston, completely outgunned by the end.
I want to see the same thing. Yeah, totally agree.
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happy with Zuomi Companion. I think, you know, the effort and focus is the biggest thing for me because this lost things a little bit less, just because I can see the situation that we're in physically right, Like even if they came back to win the series. We talked about this on the last podcast, Like, I think the ceiling for what this playoff run can be is capped by the health situation.
That we're in.
And now we've can add Donovan Mitchell to that list. He's listed is questionable for the next game. For Game five, I will likely be a game time decision. You know, look like a reaggravation of the ankle seems to be the reporting I did see. Brian Windhors was mentioning, Hey, you know he has been playing through a calf. All of that's connected as you know, someone that is currently going through a setback. When it comes to my rehabit, it just leads to me being incredibly you know, paranoid
when it comes to anything calf related. But I definitely trust the Cavs trainers and medical staff when it comes to that. But we'll see what his availability is. But I would say, you know, even if Donovan is enabled to play, I think this team is able to put up a good enough effort to win Game five. I think that they can accept.
At home man and they won sixty four.
Games, and you know, I think once again, the effort and how it occurs is the biggest thing. I could have been okay with a Game four loss. I could have been okay with that exact type of scenario if the rest of the series had felt differently, right, Like, we understand that there's going to be lowel losses in either direction of the playoffs, and sometimes you know, you you lose the battle and you come back to.
Win the war.
Both of those instances that I mentioned before, where you know, with Lebron led teams, the Calves lost by thirty to forty points in the playoffs, they came back and they won the series, whether it was the twenty sixteen finals or Game seven against Indiana in the first round. So
it doesn't have to be a death sentence. But for me, what I really want to see is Caves to feel like the Calves, and if they go down in game five, six, seven, whatever the case may be, with an honest effort where it feels like the Calves, I'm going to feel better about that.
And I yeah, there's no shame in losing to an indie team that after like a ten and sixteen start with bananas.
The rest of the way.
That is, you know that I was you know had appropriate fear of there's no shame in losing to them when with the injury text you have around him, I think that you just crossed that threshold when you're not playing your style of basketball, when you're you know, even like stuff like Tai Jerome just having a nightmare series like that sucks, right, Like I'm not but I'm not
sitting here mad at Ti Jerome. I'm bummed. I'm sure Ty is bummed that he's having the series he's having, especially after the first round he had against Miami, where you think, okay, everything you thought, yeah, and uh, you know,
so I'm sure he's bummed. But I there's a reason we're not on here decrying that Tai Jerome is letting the team down, because like one, that's not interesting analysis and you know, only serves to make yourself feel good holding someone accountable or whatever, and I hate that, which we're.
Going to get a lot of that this SAW season.
I'm sure, yeah, yeah, But like I the reason we're not doing is because like that's just like a guy having a bad performance, and that is understandable. It's not personally acceptable, I'm sure to him, but like it's not indicative of a team losing who they are, you know, and like so much of what's gone on in the series.
In these pockets of pain.
Game four n understanding, which was just a you know, the whole factory of pain. But like these pockets of pain where they're losing these games, is that it's them losing themselves, not playing the way that we know they're capable of playing. And it's like, well, guys, like I guess you know there's a bit of reaping sewing going on.
You know, you don't play your style against a good team who never ever doesn't play their style, you know, Like I do think if they lose this series, there should be some soul searching, not just about what this roster is capable of, but like they should look across the aisle and be like, why do they never lose who they are? Given that Game three, where the Calves had a great game plan, controlled the game the whole way through. In the fourth quarter, there were the Pacers doing there.
Felt several pushes from them, right like the Calves were able to answer back. But even though they had those stretches, they did get back to you know, who they are and what their style of play is.
I think you're right.
I think that's going to be one of the macro takeaways because even though you know you.
Can ascribe a lot of what's.
Happened to the injuries, that losing you know, your identity and your style of play is something that honestly, if the Cavs were fully healthy, it probably could overcome in this individual series. They probably would overcome in this individual series, but it would show up later in the playoffs. Yeah, it's going to show up, you know, against the Boston
or against an OKC. And if we want to hold ourselves to that championship standard, in if that's what this team is going to continue to build towards, that is usable data. That is a macro takeaway that you can take from the series. And I don't I you know, the people that doubted the Cavs coming into this, I don't expect them, Like it would be absolute lunacy for me to expect them to look at this result and say, Okay,
well I'm going to approach this with nuance. No, they're going to go to their priors, right Like, when you have played as well as the Calves have played this season and you earn those expectations for yourself. You know, people are going to have opinions. If you come up short of expectations, you are going to receive backlash. I think that this team is more than capable of handling that.
But I do think, you know, you have to find those nuggets of truth or is you like to say, what lessons do you want to learn from this situation?
And I think that.
Type of identity aspect of this is something that requires analysis. It requires them to reflect upon it, and you know, applied properly, can be something that ends up being a difference maker. When you talk about this team's evolution to try to become, you know, a championship team.
It most importantly has nothing to do with injuries, correct, because injuries are always going to muddy your analysis. They're complicated. You know, we get yelled at a lot. We're getting yelled at in the YouTube chat right this very second for talking too much about injuries, which I think is funny because I think we're barely talking about them.
I think we're talking about why they don't matter. And for the most part, yea.
If anything, Yeah, But like at the end of the day, I see when when things do get muddy in any scientific experiment, which every basketball season for your team is an experiment. You look at the controls, you look at the the things that aren't going to be variable, and you know there's a reason, even without Halliburton in the Conference finals last year, that Indy was making Austin sweaty.
And I just think they.
Need to whatever road it is, they have to find it, whether it's going to be this series, whether it's the off season, whether it's.
In a different era of the team.
Like your ultimate goal, your ultimate goal should be an identity and a style of play that is magic you can impose correct and that you can impose.
You know, I've one of my favorite models for team building that I've brought up a lot is the Grit and grind and Grizzlies, who never won a title, who had plenty of series they lost, you know, every year they always lost someone or to someone. But you knew that going into this series. And you can even look at the magic right now in that way, like the magic got.
You know what a magic series feel like?
They got comfortably dispatched in five games and Boston hated every second of it. Yep, Like that's what I want, That's what I want my.
Team to be. That's what I want my team to do.
And I'm not saying go be the Orlando Magic, be the Calves, but like, you've got to be the Calves all the time.
Yeah.
And I think a big part of that, you know, goes back to what we were saying before about involving the bigs and particularly involving Evan Mobley. We know how important he has to be to the Cavs success, and I feel like when we've been in some of these games where you know they've kind of lost the sense of who they are, it's not because Mobley's out there struggling. And I think there were times in Game four where it seemed like, Okay, they know what he's trying to do,
and they were taking away some of his counters. They did a good job of him individually, but never really feels like you don't get the five of twenty Evan Mobley game right where it's all right, we're trying to go down with the ship and he's just not able to deliver.
What's the most field goal attempts Evan's taken in the playoffs so.
Far fourteen thirteen.
Oh wow, I'm good at guessing getting back to you know, your good and grind example. I think an even more relatable example for Kavs fans the twenty sixteen Cleveland Cavaliers. You looked at that twenty fifteen Finals, and people said, look how they were able to muddy things up against the Warriors.
They need to play.
You know, you would get the need to bench Kyrie, You need a bench, Kevin Love.
You need to muddy up the series.
You got to slow things down, you got to make the Warriors uncomfortable, you got to beat them up. And the Cavs said, that's not our identity. Yes, that worked in twenty fifteen out of desperation. That was how we were able to make a series of it, but that's not how we play. And the top four highest paced games of the twenty sixteen Finals were all Cavs wins because they played their style. They weren't afraid that their style played into what the Warriors typically like to do.
They played to their identity, and I think finding that identity is one of the most important things for the Cavs.
And you know, I.
Think we've talked a lot about the players and where they came up shortly in this game, but I do think beyond them, you know, understanding what needs to change for Game five, executing the way that we've seen in previous games of this series. I do think some of this it has to fall in the coaching staff as well. I thought Indiana came out, they had a plan of attack for the three to two zone, and the cast stayed in you know, they stayed in looks that made
Indiana feel comfortable offensively. Far too frequently in this game. They were able to, you know, get those deep corner shots and attack the zone from there. You know, I think three two zone and zone in general is something that you can throw at Indy. I think it has to be for a possession or two, right Like, Okay, we're playing man to man boom for one or two possessions in a row. We're throwing zone, then we're going
back to man. We're going to sawt switch here, We're going to fight through screens here, We're going to throw a variety of looks, which honestly we saw against you know, the Miami Heat and Tyler Hero they were throwing a variety of defensive looks at them. They stayed in the same looks far too consistently. And I think that that allowed Indy to just play their game, as he said, uninhibited.
Yeah, the the you know, and it's not that just necessarily. I'm like, you're not allowed to play three two zone anymore, you know. Nate Duncan made some really good observations in the game on Twitter about how, you know, Evan needs to just when he gets screened at the top, he just needs to stick with the roller because that role is just too unprotected, especially if Jarrett isn't out there. So like, you know, but when you do that, then
you open up the pull up game. You know, now you're just getting screened uninhibited because the help can't get up there in time. So it's like it just felt like not only did they stick in the three two zone, they stuck with the same three two zone principles for too long, you're right, and it's like they have a solve for the way you're guarding this. You have to tweak it or show something different every now and again, even within the three to two yep, And they just
kind of hung and said, well, let's see. I mean, Indy has so many wide open layups duck ins with where a big rolls or cuts to the rim baseline and catches it with ridiculously deep position.
And gets the easiest and ones of their career.
Like, I mean, the there was just such a systematic opening and then the execution was poor too, you know, and like I mean, you can maybe get away with one with the Calves defensive talent, you can't get away with both.
Yeah, Now that was that sucked.
Yeah, And the thing is right, like Indy's going to make you uncomfortable. Indy doesn't have the level of defensive personnel that the Calves have, right, Like, even if you look at playoff defensive rating, the Calves do have a better defensive rating for the playoffs. But what Indied does is they rush your decision making. You have to be
sharp at all times. And I think one of the things that the Cavs have had defensively, like the form the most part, the defense is held up regular season playoffs, they've been a good defense. This is the first series where I feel like they've lost control defensively at times. But I think what we've seen from the Caves is they do a good job contesting.
The rim.
Protection has always been fantastic. They're able to stay in their shell defense and you know, put forward a you know, a defense that's good enough to go out there and win, and often a you know, a top five, top ten defense. But they don't make teams uncomfortable often enough. They will stay kind of in those base looks and they don't rush your decision making. They don't make things more difficult
for you in those ways. They trust what they are able to do, right, like Max Strus getting in the jersey of Tyre's Halliburn fighting through screens.
You love to see that.
Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, what they're able to do on the back line defensively like that is all really important stuff. But they aren't able to create havoc when it comes to their defense unless it's you know, Evan mobilely grabbing a block out of the air and starting a fast break as a result of it.
It's kind of the Isaaco Couro problem in Mac in whatever the opposite, you know, sound positional defense that doesn't do enough to bother the shot before the shot, right, And I think you know that that's another one of those things I'm going to have you know, my eye on when it comes to the offseason, right, because there's going to be limitations in terms of what this team can do as a second apron team.
You're it's tinkering on the margins, but understanding that it's okay, how can we make enough of a change to our style of play without dramatic shakeups? Like how how how can we do things both internally and on the margins, you know, from a roster construction standpoint, to modify our style of play so that we are able to be a little bit more bothersome, because when you had that level of backline defense in theory, you should be able
to do a little bit more gambling. You should be able to blitz a little bit, blitz and recover and make teams uncomfortable defensively. And that's that's one of those things that I'm going to have an eye on.
Yeah, for sure, me too. Game five, do you make any rotational changes?
I don't think you can.
Like, you know, you can say, all right, well, should Craig port a junior play instead of tie? No, I like, There's been times where I've liked to I'd like to see Craig. I like the minutes that he had. I thought that was one of the issues with Game two is I would have liked to have seen him get a second shift. I like his athleticism out there. You can say Javonte Green for energy and things like that, but I think you just kind of have to go
with the guys that you have. Obviously, some of that is going to be dependent on the availability of Donovan Mitchell. If he's not able to play, your inevitably going to
have some changes to the rotation. I if I was to suggest a wild card in that kind of instance where you have to have a major kind of you know, you have to replace a major contributor in Donald Mitchell, I wouldn't hate throwing out Jalen Tyson just for a physicality, second chance opportunities, and because this might have to be one of those guys that you rely on the future to, you know, change how you feel on the perimeter.
You know, just from a physicality standpoint.
I might be playing Jalen over Dean or Isaac and just give it a shot. That's yeah, That's That's what I'm saying, is you know if yeah, well you said if Donovan doesn't play, I'm saying maybe even if he does, okay, because at this point Isaac's just not in the right let me. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm suggesting. Not
a long shift. I'm talking eight to ten minutes total, but that is paired with you know, it's a two parter because I think I'm playing Evan and Jarrett forty minutes plus, yeah, and saying, uh, you know, we're going down with If I'm going down with two bigs, I'm going down playing guys who can you know, change the physicality game in our favor a little bit, get us extra possessions in the former rebounds, a little bit of extra shooting from the wing in Jalen, especially since I
don't trust DeAndre to be able to shoot yeah right now. But like, you know, these are a little bit of you know, some of the playing a rookie who wasn't in your rotation all year in a deciding playoff game like is indicative of what the state of the back end of the Cavs rotation right now.
Yeah. Where the real answer is.
Ty has to play well, Darius has to play well, Jared has to play well, Evan has to play well.
And if they do that, if they ever.
Yeah yeah, uh and you know, but I if they can't, then I need I need someone who's gonna try stuff and maybe mess up.
Yeah, and uh and uh, and I'll go with Jalen doing that. I I I completely agree.
I think I think, you know, the Jalen Tyson conversation is one that we're going to be having this offseason because it will.
Be I I don't even know if it's a conversation. I just think he's gonna he needs to get the he needs to get there.
You need him to get no.
But I mean, you know, opening up that opportunity is going to take, you know, some changes because they have so much depth, right, So I think that he is someone that brings some of that physicality, some of that edge on the perimeter. And I like, I honestly, I love what Max has been for for the Cavs. I think he you know, when you look back at that sign trade, this is basically the best case scenario. I think he is better as he's been a member of the Calves. I think he has been probably our most
consistent player in the playoffs. You know now that that Jared has had that kind of one dud game, I would have given Jared the nod prior to that, but I think Max is running with that ground right now.
I like what DeAndre has given the Calves.
I'm cunning him a ton of slack because he's so he can can't grip the ball right now, Like I'm gonna cut him slack in that scenario. But I really like how he is fit with this team. It's about going beyond those six right and reflecting on Okay, well things.
Went wrong for ty Jerome. What does that mean? Right?
You know, Isaac Okor, I think we're going to have some conversations about him. Dean Wade, We're not going to have some conversations about him. But when you have promising, you know, young players like a Jalen Tyson and to some extent, Craig Porter Jr. It forces you to have these conversations from a team building standpoint. So we'll see
what the availability is for Game five. You know, when it comes to Donovan Mitchell, as much as I want to go out and win this game and extend the series, you got to do what's best for the long term health there.
So we'll see what his availability is. I'm sure he will be fighting to give it a go.
But I'm not disappointed with his effort at all in these playoffs I think he is, you know, laid it all on the line, and that's exactly what I hope from the overall team.
In game five, absolutely, man, come on, let's extend this thing. Sure, I don't want to see these dudes go out at home.
No, so totally agree.
Let's let's defend a home court and see, you know how much further we can extend it from there, one game at a time. Big thanks to everyone that tuned in live on YouTube. Carter, thank you for you know, struggling through that voice. I appreciate it. I can't believe this has happened again for you in the playoffs, but I love you, buddy, I love you. Get all our listeners as well. We appreciate you.
Guys.
Make sure you like and subscribe. Click that notification bells know when we're going live. If you're listening to a podcast and you want to support us, leave us a rating, late review, subscribe unsubscribed to subscribe and help cook those books if you want to be or Chase Down's exclusive discord chat Sidy screen show the view to Chase Doownpott gmail dot com. However you chuse the supports, we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying safe out there. Until next time, Don Gast