This crowd rises to it's me what Borrow slammed it out? Are left winging? Free ball? Perfect?
Then he blocked the shot at the rim?
How with the left hand.
And of foul. Welcome to the Chasetown Podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rohan. The Chasetown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including FanDuel Sports Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves. Well, it took until late March, but we have our first losing streak of the season.
My body simply rejected it. I completely shut down. I've had the flu. I am reacting poorly to this. Maybe I should have taken losses, watched other teams to get a little dose of losing. But after a month and a half without a single loss, my body shot down with these But we still have so much to break down. And joining me today is my co host Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, buddy?
You know I'm doing well. It's uh I literally warned everyone to be careful. You're gonna be staying up late watching the calves. You might be inventing things to be frustrated with, and uh, whoops, there's real stuff to be frustrated with. It stinks to it stinks to lose three in a row, you know. And it's just a weird time of the season, honestly. And I'm certainly sleepy trying
to fight off any any grump you know. I've had my little moments, my little my little grumpy thoughts to myself that I know are because I'm not getting enough sleep. And West Coast trip isn't over yet, brother man.
No, no, it certainly isn't dead, you know. I'm We're going to get to the concerns. I think there is stop to discuss, both from a kind of macro and micro sense of what we're concerned about in the short term. If there's any of this that we feel, you know, is at least feeding into some anks that we have long term that may not just be the result of this losing streak, but just you know, general concerns we have overall. But I think we do have to get
into these games individually. I do think It's funny. When we were doing our kind of preview of this trip, when we were in the midst of the winning streak, we said, when are the losses going to come? When would you like to predict the first loss? Yeah, we were both right. You know, you predicted Orlando. I predicted Sacramento because I was like, you know, three games, four nights, second night of a back to back, traveling out west,
that's probably where it's going to happen. But I wasn't expecting Zach Levine to miss the game, Demonta Sabonis to miss that game. Sure, Darius Garland was missing, but the Cavs obviously had more than enough. And I thought you and Danny did a tremendous job. Really appreciate Danny phil it with me being very under the weather, they're covering that Orlando game. I thought the Clippers game overall was actually a really well played game for a lot of it.
I thought that was a fun game between two good teams, and then they just kind of lost some of their process. But that Sacramento loss, that's a bad loss. There's no way to get around it.
Yeah, man, is it's just that time of year and you want to get worked up, you want to overreact. But long time Cavaliers Twitter antagonist Matt Moore coming in with the context to make me feel a little bit better, honestly, He tweeted today, Cavs offenses first this season. They are twelfth in March. The Thunder defenses first on the season. They are twelfth in March. The Spurs offense is sixteenth on the season their first, Memphis defense is tenth. They're twenty.
Atlanta's offense is sixth, They're eighteenth. It's just such a weird part of the season, a weird part of the calendar.
If you ever, if you want to have a laugh, Carter, don't do it now. But after the podcast search Matt Moore's tweets. Search at HB basketball March is meaningless and see how many results you get. This has been a multi year campaign of him basically pointing out how it's the least significant, statistically significant month. But you know, I still think, you know, when it comes to the calves and what we've seen over this stretch, I don't think
it's dissimilar to other times when they've had skids. I don't think it's too dissimilar to some of their bad habits during the winning streak, even we said multiple times, hey, a few of these games easily could have been a loss. And the question that we had is are they going to correct some of these bad habits before getting some negative reinforcement. And I think the answer to that was pretty clearly, like there's been some really good games in there.
I thought the Memphis game was a terrific performance from them, where they came out, they were engaged. But you know, some of these habits, the turnovers, I would say, settling for jump shots, not continually engaging the bigs, and you know, feeding Evan Mobley and Jared Allen and getting some rim pressure going. I think some of those habits are just due to coasting and assuming that they have enough firepower
to win in the end. And when you play like that, you're going to get bid a couple times, particularly when you play three teams in a row that are all in the play in picture that really really need to get these wins. Orlando eight seat Sacramento trying to get into the upper half of the play in bracket. The Clippers are in the play in the Cats basically are sitting there with an A plus grade already and they are coasting on their you know, the extra credit homework
that they've been assigned. They already know what they're great is for the regular season, the teams really need to get those wins. And when you're in that situation, you're going to get caught and you're going to get losses.
Yeah, and it's not like it's been forty eight minutes of substandard play. It's just been like disastrous six minute stretches I feel, where they just aren't able to get anything going and they pay the piper. You know, you look at that ten oh run against Orlando. You think about the fact that you know, they didn't have a crazy high turnover game against Sacramento. No, I think they finished with twelve or thirteen twelve in the game, you
have twenty three points. So it was just like every time they turned it over it was a straight up pick six. And so it's like, not all turnovers are made equal, not all box scores are made equal, and like, you know, you might look up and down this Caps box score and say, oh, they played a pretty good game, And you know, I think Donovan is probably a good example of that where you look he goes you go all right, twenty six points on seventeen shots, five and four.
You know, that's a pretty solid Donovant game. But yeah, you watch that wasn't his best second half until some heroics very at the very end to get them back in contact. So, like, I just think they're not playing consistent forty eight minutes of ball, and that is how you lose games in March.
Yeah. Yeah, and Donovan's been in a bit of a slump.
All three of the guards, all three of the guards, it's just kind of come home to roost for all three of them shooting the basketball right now.
Yeah, And I was going to say, I don't even know if slump's the right word, right because clearly he had a nagging groin issue. He was shut down for a couple of games, and then you know, you're returning from a soft tissue injury. You're not doing conditioning when you're out, You're going to be there's going to be an adjustment period as you're coming back. And I'm not surprised to see him, you know, take some time to
get his footing. There's been bursts where he's looked really good, but there's other times where you know, the shots just aren't falling. And I think from Darius's standpoint, we saw that as he came back from the hip and you know, the fall where he hit his face, it took him a while. It took him a while start hitting shots. And I think the last couple of games that he's played, he's looked a lot better. He's getting to the rim again,
the shots are falling. The Clippers game was a very efficient one until he jacked up those two late threes, you know, in just kind of a scrambled drill situation. But he looked terrific, Like I thought, he was the best player on the calves against the Clippers. He was high pointing rebounds, you know, playing with burst. That step back jumper was terrific. So I give Donovan the exact same grace that we gave Darius, where it's, hey, you know, the shots not falling. But I feel like he's playing
pretty decent overall. But there's been stretches where I thought, to close against Orlando it was just a little too Donovan heavy. I thought it got a little Donovan heavy, or you know, went away from MOBILEI is probably the more accurate way to say it. Against Sacramento, when Evan had it really rolling and we just stopped getting him the ball in those last couple of minutes, just not trusting kind of the the overall offense and playing the way that we have in the clutch throughout the season.
Which is really funny because right after we do you know, a breakdown of how they've played in the clutch. I felt like they've kind of lost their identity in those moments.
I mean maybe I don't know. I thought they were, you know, against Orlando, I thought they generated really good looks down the stretch, and I agree with that their results didn't really match the process. You know, I felt like they lost to the Kings on the other side of the ball, where they just could not get a stop for three straight minutes.
The defense has sucked. It just hasn't been good lately.
But like I do think it is fair to say, you know, these guys are just are slumping from three a little bit. Donoman is shooting twenty percent in his seven games this month on eight attempts a game. Darius is still at thirty two and a half percent. For Jerome Ty Jerome is at twenty four percent. Like those three guards, So much of what has made them so
freaking flammable. This year has been the you know, the two you know, the three level scoring for all three of them, and you know, really it's mostly coming at the rim for Tye and Donovan and that's what's kind of keeping their field goal percentages even in reasonable places. But like, you know, those guys need to make threes consistently.
I mean, Dandy Cunningham mentioned it that the Kings, Clippers, and Magic are all bottom twenty three point teams, and all three of them made more threes than the Calves. Like I'm not saying that, like I'm not just doing the make or miss league thing, because I do think like this is a team that's consistently won games even when they haven't been at their best as shooters, and they haven't been their best elsewhere, so the bottom's kind
of fallen out on them. Yeah, I think in some of these games because they haven't been great everywhere else. But like, boy, it's hard to tell the story of this three game losing streak without mentioning that Orlando Magic made more threes than the Cavs in a basketball game.
Yeah, and you know, the Orlando won I think if it wasn't part of this larger kind of stretch where they haven't been shooting well. It would be really easy to say, well, you know, that's an afternoon game that happens like those games are always weird. We don't have a lot of losses this season, but I feel like a quarter of them have come at very early start times. But you're right, it's definitely part of the story here.
I do think it's also a compounding issue where it almost feels like they're playing to conserve energy just a little bit at least compared to stretches where they've been playing their best, where the energy level has been so high, and some of what you do in those spots is you settle for more jumpers. I feel like the Cavs have settled for more jumpers and they're not attacking the basket generating rim pressure at the same rate, and what that ends up doing is you create lower quality three
point shots as a result of that. Their highest quality looks usually come when they're pressuring the rim and the defense is collapsing and they're in rotation. I feel like sometimes we are settling a little bit more. It's not to the full extent of Boston where the ball never goes inside of the three point arc. But I do feel like there's been prolonged stretches, or at least in the stretches where we do go really cold offensively, we just kind of abandoned that rim pressure during that time.
Yeah, well, I think some of that is, you know, Evan sat one of these games and he is a big generator of that rim pressure for us, where you know, he like because Jarrett will do it within the scheme. But like we saw teams kind of scheme him out of a couple of these second halfs where they were really taking away the role and really tagging him hard, and you know, so that wasn't necessarily there as well
as you might like. And then you know, you also have Darius and you know, missing missing a game, and so like I do think like the avenues to rim
pressure have him been there. And then you know, rotationally, like Dean had a really really good game yesterday, so I'm not trying to dig on him too hard, but like there have been a few possessions where he's just not looking at the rim and you know, and he's really not gonna be a guy who looks at the rim sam Merril doesn't really look at the rim and attack you know, in straight lines too often layup the
other year. Yeah, though I do feel a little bad for him because I feel like everyone went after him for that and is like, I don't think he knew how open he was. I think he just got a offensive rebound and was like, all right, when I get offensive rebounds, like kick it out, so you know, whatever there. But like I do think just collectively they there hasn't been a tremendous amount of consistent downhill pressure. Uh you know, some some notable exceptions. I think Max has played really
really well getting downhill. I think, uh, you know, I think Tie, despite the three point shot being in shambles right now, has really still gotten downhill and you know, muscled up some relatively effective games uh through that. But yeah, I mean I do think much like you know, those old Warriors teams, like it's a team that has a proclivity to be side to siedy yep and you and sometimes you just need to get out of your own head and just like we have to attack downhill consistently.
Yeah, And I felt like that was a big part of darius Is slump was you know, the three point shot isn't falling, but we're getting entire halfs where he's only taking shots behind the three point arc and he's not driving. And I thought there's been a real change of that the last couple of games he's played. I really feel like he's kind of turned the corner and I'm feeling better.
I feel like he's back to our guy. Last two games.
Yeah, I feel like he's been playing really well lately. It was nice to see. You know, Evan had a really tough game against the Clippers. I thought it was probably his worst defensive game of the year. A lot was kind of made of Jared Allen defending Zubac, but some of that was not getting the help defense in time. I thought Mobley's was a step slow, and you know, coming off missing a game with foot soreness, maybe that
was a factor. But it was night and day better against Sacramento in comparison, and you know, sometimes you're going to have those off games. But I thought Mobley's defense and his struggles on that end was a big part of the story against the Clippers.
I do too, and as part of it was they haven't gotten consistently good play up and down the roster. You know, DeAndre hunter had has had a couple of rough games. You know, Sam is having some a tough stretch, one of his tougher stretches I think of the year where you know, the shot is okay, but he's not getting up a tremendous amount of attempts, which maybe is
reflective of it. It's one of those things where maybe it's a like these last two games, he's got three total three point episode twenty six minutes, and that's like not Sam. I wonder if that's one of those like bell Weather things of like things aren't working that well. So Sam isn't getting his steady diet of even semi open threes. Yeah, So I don't know. I just think they're not playing their best and like even like even like the obvious stuff that like does not beget any
analysis but still matters. Last three games, they've missed twenty free throws.
Like that seems to be a that seems to be a consistent trend. Anytime that they do have one of these slumps is oh god, Like you know, they had a really bad free throw week week for one reason or another, and I you know, I can't provide an explanation for that. It's the least interesting thing to talk about. It's one of those things where you just go, yeah, they should make those they're they're better than that.
If but it's like it's got to be worth saying, like they make they get an extra seven points per game, like across these three games. That's you know, you might have turned to all three of those into into wins or much more competitive games. Yeah, and that's been true kind of it is everything factor, you know, And it's been true of a lot of losses this season where it's come down to the wire, it's been oh, you know, we missed a bunch of free throws, you had an
abnormally bad shooting game from three. If any of those factors change, you still win. Like the fact that they've still been close in a lot of these losses, not these recent ones, because you know, the Sacramento one shouldn't have come down to that like that, that doesn't matter, that's.
Not what I'm referring to. But even thinking back to, you know, the Houston loss, that's a perfect example of Yeah, with even how bad they played, if they just shot better from the free throw line, they win the game, and it speaks to the overall floor they have. But you are in one of these spots where during the winning streak there were issues. We didn't feel that they were playing well. We felt that they were slumping. The starters in particular, were having a tough time and the
bench was carrying them. Now the starters are, I think, in general, are starting to come back to earth. Darius is playing a little bit better. Mobilely had a terrific game. Feels crappy to have wasted that against Sacramento. I feel like Jared's been playing well, but the bench lineup hasn't been as effective. They're in a bit of a rut.
Those minutes aren't working out as well, so you no longer have that boost coming in consistently from the second unit, and I think that that is leaving them vulnerable to potentially dropping some of these games. Yeah, I mean, the whole premise is the forty eight minutes of hell, we don't have lineups. They get run off the floor. And you know, they've been having some lineups that are giving
up nine ten points in two minutes. Yeah, Like, and those births are like really damaging, really really hard to account.
For and just kind of change the rhythm because I would say in all three games there was an eight minute stretch for the Cabs looked as good as they've looked all year. I would have gainst the Orlando against the Kings and against the Clippers, but like, there was a big stretch of that Clippers game where I was just sitting back being like, this is some basketball man, Like the Clippers.
Let's be honest. They are where they are in the standings because they've had guys miss so much time and because Tylou is a genius and has kept them, you know, as high as they are. But that's a better team than the record when they're fully healthy, When Kawhi Leonard's playing like that and James Harden's locked in like that, and you know they.
Aren't help put Mobley on skates in a way I didn't know he could still do.
That's a good team. That's a team that's capable of playing some damn good basketball, and you know they were putting on a show that that was a lot of fun. It almost reminded me of that first game against Okay See in Cleveland, where it's like, this is just high level basketball, even when the defense is good, it's not enough.
Yeah, the shot making was nuts. J Quest in the YouTube chat just asked about putting someone like Javante in just to see if there's a spark there is that something you'd be interested in doing as they try to get to like the Malaise of March, because I think it's kind of an interesting idea.
I think it's something I might go to, but I wouldn't go to it right away because I think there's options within the existing rotation, and I think you saw one of them honestly against Sacramento. Because one of my gripes with the Clippers game was and even some recent performances, it seemed like within the rotation, Sam has been the unquestioned kind of seventh man in terms of the minutes played in the rotation, and I felt like there's a lever to pull there of cutting it back and giving
Ocoro more. And that's exactly what Kenny did against Sacramento. It was Okay, we need to start getting some stops, we need activity. When the Ice gave really good minutes, he gave them great minutes, and honestly, Dean Wade gave them great minutes. Like I thought the two of them really played well in the time that they were out there. But I think that's the first lever I pull, is redistributing the minutes within the guys that are already kind
of within the top nine. And if you feel that they're coming out flat and the bench guys aren't giving you a lift, that's when I go and I pulled the Javonte lever and give him an opportunity.
I like the idea of pulling the Javonte lever if they look listless in the third quarter, you know, just the hey man like because like the thing with Ice that we've always said, you know, is like sometimes if if the game's not right, he's not necessarily making the splash he plays, he's making the really fundamentally solid plays, you know. And Javante, I think, is a little bit more chaotic of a player, at least from what we've
seen so far. And sometimes, you know, it's like the Lamar Stevens effect on steroids, you know, or sometimes Lamar could come in and like, you know, mess up the energy of a game just by trying real hard and playing playing his own way, you know. And like I think neither of us ever really loved when he got consistent minutes. But I didn't mind him when it was like a things aren't going well, let's try it, you know. Yeah, and every now and again he could change the game.
And I think Javante is like a much better player than than Labar to be to be, to be honest, and like, I do think there's some value in that. And also just like as a little bit of like a hey, it's march. I know, I know it's hard to like get up for every game. I got other guys. Yeah, like you know, like there is a little bit of a message you can kind of send there, not like a malicious one, but like, hey, if if I'm not going to get exactly what I'm looking for, I'll try
other folks. Is a deep roster. I'll give Jalen Tyson some run, I'll give Green some run. And he did that earlier in the year, you know, and did give guys cracks when the team maybe wasn't as sharp as they needed to be. So I thought it was I thought it was a good call for j Quest and I would be okay with that.
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Real quick, real quick. All right, I gotta, I gotta. I have a little thing I wanted to I wanted to shout out, Uh. I just want to shout out uh, our dear friend Ben Cox Cavs Twitter. Uh, lifer going through some hell stuff you mentioned on this Twitter. I just wanted to say, Ben, we love you. Hope you get well soon.
Brother. Ye funny enough, that was actually what I was going to bring.
Really, Ben, we love you so much. Both of us came to this conclusion independently.
Yeah, Ben, Ben, I'm happy to hear you. Know. I appreciate you sharing your story there. We're definitely thinking about you. Uh.
You.
We go all the way back to the days that I fear of the sword and really hoping that your your recovery is going well. If you need anything, reach out, we love you and you're here for you, and you know, while we're in you know this kind of reminiscent mode. I should also mention Carter, we're dropping this at least the audio version of this podcast tomorrow March twenty first, it's gonna be the eight year anniversary of the Chase Down podcast. How about that?
Eight years, man, And it does not feel like it's been eight years.
It feels like eighteen.
But you know, I just it's just been it's been an easy job being your podcast buddy for the last eight years. And gosh, that's probably what, like, you know, three hundred episodes, three point fifty or something like that. It's probably it's a.
Lot more than that. I'll get to those numbers after the fact, but yeah, it's it's a lot more than that at this point.
Crazy to think about.
I love you, buddy, I love you to you, buddy. Uh yeah, it's you know, these stretches are tough. It's it's frustrating, particularly when you stay up late.
Oh man, I've been so sleepy, so sleepy.
I've had the benefit of at least one of these games. I was in bed all day, so I was at least a little mentally au Yeu Captain flu Bug. Yeah, I'm really living the dream here. But you know it's going to lead to stretches where you start having concerns, you start you know, it's confirming some of your prior concerns and things like that. I saw a lot of that, you know, I think playing Zubach and Jonas valentunas two very physical bigs that are going to try to go
through you to the basket. That's going to lead to people talking. You know, a lot of blame going towards Jared Allen. And it's kind of funny because even though we lost to the Clippers by thirteen, they lost to the Zubac Minutes by four. So as frustrating as it was to see that, that wasn't necessarily why they lost the game. Same thing goes for the Jonus Valentunis minutes. He card, what would you guess is plus minus was for the game?
I think I know it was like minus six or something like that.
It was minus seventeen. Wow, it was seventeen and he was five of eleven from the fight.
You know why. It was the mobley the Mobley run at the end of the third.
But I'm just saying, like as the Calves obviously are going to struggle with those types of bigs because almost every team does like they play such a physical style. They don't always win those minutes, but they're going to try to go through you. They're going to elbow their win the fight. Yeah, they won't mend the minutes, but
they'll win the fight. I gotta say it is especially cruel for the NBA during this this you know, sleep walky ass month of marsh to send the Calves on a West coast trip to this just parade of large Eastern European man to beat us up that are all fighting for their playing lives. It's just great. But you know what I will take at least I'll say this, at least it was Jonas instead of Sibonis, because I feel like Sibonis is the toughest cover for Jared Allen
in the league. Like Jared will do a great job. I've seen him do a great job on unbeat. I've seen it on Jokic, I've seen it on you know, big physical bigs. Sabonis. That that's another that's another animal like that is that's shan Gun with more strength and more skill and you know, a much better skill set when it would comes to footwork and things like that to just put bodies under the basket. He is relentless. It's it's I've seen Jared do it to Yannis. You'll
stand up well to him. But Sabonis that is a tough, tough cover.
Yeah, some dudes are just hard for guys and you and yeah, I mean Sis is league leader in rebounding and all that fun stuff, and yeah, talk about a weird King's team where like they're not that good, but like if Sabonis is healthy and it's like, all right, we got Sabonis off the floor of him comes Jonas fell on Tunis, that's just like it's just like a NonStop elbow parade. Yeah, uh you know, but uh but yeah,
it's definitely a weird time. And like the confirming priors thing is interesting thing because I will say, as I was watching, like, I mean, I think it's been no secret on this podcast that like I really do think Isaac should be getting a little bit more run. I do, and I know you I'm pretty sure you do too
as well. And you know, the natural uh, you know, whatever, the opposite of a beneficiary of that is Sam, And like I was sitting here, you know, last night, and be like, I just don't know if I just don't know if Sam should be getting this kind of run
in the last couple of games. And then I look and I'm like, oh, I only played twelve minutes, as like I, you know, even we have to be careful about confirming our priors, you know, and and just being like and just being like, well, we think Isaac needs more minutes. So when Isaac's not getting the minutes and things go wrong, then I'll see, Look how smart we are.
It's really hard to analyze. Like sometimes like having all this putting all this thought in and de helping all these opinions about the team, I think it sometimes makes it harder to evaluate what we're watching, you know what I mean.
Yeah, I think you're right. And I think a big part of why we approach these discussions the way that we do, where you know, we talk about what we think, we discussed both sides of it, basically to outline our logic so that when we're wrong, you guys at least have an understanding of what went into that where we went wrong, and then you know, we can break that down further in the future, and I definitely felt that Sam was getting too much time against the Clippers. I thought,
you know, he's he's held up incredibly well defensively. I thought he's competed well. The overall numbers have been very good for him on the defensive end, but this recent stretch it hasn't been going as well. There's guys that have been able to kind of take advantage of that opportunity. And I do think that it's interesting because there's a bit of a trickle down effect here with trading Carrislavert
and George Niang for DeAndre Hunter. And a big part of that is now that that third ball handler is consistently Ti Jerome, if you're also still playing one of Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell. That means that Sam is functionally the small forward in a lot of lineups if he's coming in off the bench, Whereas with Karris Lavert, if he's coming in as the third ball handler and you have one of Donovan or Darius out there, you at least have that longer body to throw at wings.
And there's just been a few too many times recently where it's like, oh, Sam's on John Morant, or he's on James Harden or oh he's on Kawhi Leonard. That's just it's unrealistic to expect him to hold up in
those spots. And I think that that's going to be a bit of attention going into the playoffs of Hey, we really like what Sam's bringing us, but if we are going to have one of Darius or Donovan on the court at all times and we're going to play Ty Jerome, you kind of have to almost make a decision between Ty and Sam when it comes to a lot of these minutes.
That's exactly where I was about to get to, which is I was sitting watching the game onto the field the sword playback channel and just was hanging with Jackson Fleck and Jerry and watching the game, trying to stay awake, and we were talking through that, and there is a certain factor where having Sam in the rotation and Tie in the rotation, both of them in really meaningful ways, does kind of run counter to the upsizing that the that the addition of DeAndre Hunter was supposed to do
for us. You know, like the whole fun of adding DeAndre is that you can play Okoro. DeAndre struce uh wide all at the kind of in that two through four range and obviously Mobili in the four, and you're just running really big lineups from the two two guard up and went Ties in as the one from the
one guard up. But like it does kind of break that if you want to guarantee Sam and Tie these minutes in the rotation, because you also are still staggering Darius and Donovan and so one of so you're always going to have one of Darius or Donovan on the floor. Yeah, which means that if you want to have Tie and Sam on the floor, you're right, one of them has to play small forward and then all of a sudden,
you're small. And part of me thinks that if I were Kenny in the postseason, as always, thank god I'm not, but if I were, I would kind of just choose between the two, you know, And I think, you know, Tie is a six Man of the Year candidates, so I would certainly pick him to start, But I do think there will be matchups that are not great for Tie.
Like I was talking to the Dunker Spot boys about about, you know, how we how I feel like he'll hold up in the postseasons, Like I could see a series where like Trey Young or Kobe White or some of these quick guards are torching him and getting around him, and the foot speed is a problem, and it's just better just to play Donovan as the backup one for a couple of games. And if you do that, it'd be great to have a different kind of guy to bring out under the floor in Sam Merril. So, like,
it's not that I'm I'm just like banish Sam. No, it's just I just think you might have to choose if you want to stick to this new identity that you have, and like I think that that it's not even new identity, but I think it's like a super charged identity. Yeah, it's almost like if I'm looking at the current rotation, usually guys nine to ten in the rotation are coming in to start the second quarter. I think you can start to you know, give Sam MINUTESI
in that spot. If you're going to have Tie come in right away in the first like in the first quarter, I just think when you're running out there with Darius or Donovan, Tie and Sam, that's just that's asking a lot, particularly because that's coming in minute where you only have one of the bigs on the court from a defensive standpoint, and like Darius and Donovan are going to get attacked on defense because of their height, right, guys are going
to try to take advantage of that. Even though they both play good defense individually, they play sound team defense, you are giving up something from a hyphe perspective. That's one of the conceits of this team. Sam has played very good defense. He plays very good positional defense off ball, he's in position, he navigates screens while he's going to do his part. But when you have all three of those guys out there that are you know, six form below,
you're just you don't have the foot speed. But Tye has active hands. But from you know, a defensive standpoint, he's probably the weakest defender on the team. So when you have him out there with two smaller guards, you just start losing defensive integrity. And I just think you put yourself in a tougher position by having all three of them out there at the same time. I think that's been reflected. You know, in the net rating data,
you look at the clean the glass splits. Sam's a lot less effective as a small forward thing as a shooting guard, but you're also you know, the tough thing from Kenny's perspective is he is dealing with nine to ten guys that deserve minutes, that have earned minutes throughout
the season and have been reliable throughout the year. Yeah, it's uh, you know, and I'm trying not to like overreact again to the confirming priors thing, like, yeah, Sam has been helpful even when he's slumped most of this year. But I do think there.
And this is a very small stretch of him struggling on defense, right.
Yeah, for sure, But like I do think that, you know, with that trade, the two guys whose jobs changed the most, or they're like context within the team changed the most are Sam and Dean, and like, because Hunter can do a lot of the Dean fact simile things, you know, Like I you know, part of the fun of the Hunter trade was like, hey, you know, we are saying that we we are depending on Dean a little more
than we we would like. Well, now we have a you know, a different dude in a similar you know size, that can that can do Dean stuff plus some you know, so like I do think Dean has been figuring out where to find his attacks and all that stuff and a very promising outing to be sure against Sacramento.
Do you think that's what Kenny was thinking starting him, Ok, Hey, let's get Dean going.
Maybe I wondered because it was a I thought a pretty surprising start, uh to you know, basically play Max of the two. By the way, they played a lineup to close the second of Donovan, Hunter, Dean, Mobley, and Charot, I was like, oh my.
God, large.
That is a large lineup, so like he is still playing, you know, even though they're losing games right now, Like there is some experimentation going on. It's not just pure try to survive the stretch. But yeah, I do think Dean had a lot to figure out. And then you know, because of the stuff with Tye being you know, taking caress spot in the rotation, basically like those two things kind of combined to make this a little bit of
an interesting thing for Sam. And then like, because so much of what they can do now is kind of just use Max in the in the Sam role and use Hunter in the wage role, and and then it just so I just feel like those are the guys whose jobs changed the most. Like I thought Isaac's job might change a lot. I haven't really felt that. I feel like, I mean, he's getting more minutes at the two, but I think, like are like, structurally his job on the team on the floor is not that different.
Yeah, and I was going to say tie, but you know, I think your argument was sound there. And really, when you look at it posts all Star Break, he's playing two, it's per game more than he was before. Like it's you know, it's a more consistent role, but he's still playing the same brand of basketball that he was before. The contact hasn't changed a whole lot.
Yeah, So I don't know. I uh, I'm interested to see where Kenny takes it because like, this is really the first time I've started to have real opinions about the rotation, and I would like to think that it's just because the losses, but I do Yeah, I think the last couple of weeks, I think both me and you have been like, hmmm, I'm not sure I would do it like that. I'm not sure I would roll these guys out in this way. Now, do you think
that's where we should have the Okoro discussion? Because I've really liked the Okoro minutes and I think, you know, you look at the last three games, he's played eight, twelve and sixteen minutes, so that was and he played twenty one against Memphis. Was great against Memphis. He started game and then he kind of went back down to the kind of the bottom end of the rotation. And I find that it feels like Kenny tends to go hit the offense button when the team is trailing, not
the defense button. And sometimes I'd like him to press the defense button a little more. In terms of the rotations of the subs, he tends to like to downsize, and he tends to like to put in more shooting, whereas, like I felt like in that Sacramento game and that that Clippers game, I'm like, I want to get stops. I want to I want to fuel the offense by making the other team's life hard. And I would like to see more Isaac, I guess is really what I was working my way towards.
I'd like to see more Okoro as well. You know, I agree with you. I liked how he's been playing. The interesting thing is when when you look at kind of the impact that he's had on the Cavs iscally, he is a defense first player. There's no denying that
he's going to be a low volume shooter. We've talked about him rounding out his game and getting into the hustle stats and things like that, but he always has had a positive impact, at least when you're talking about the regular season on the offensive end, because he plays with a lot of pace and he plays with the law tempo. Sometimes when he disrupts things on the defensive end,
that leads to transition opportunities. He's probably one of the best transition players on the team, and you know, seeks out those opportunities better than almost anybody. And when you look at the on off stats in terms of who has the biggest kind of swing offensively, Okorro's right up there, Like he's the offense is three point five points better with him on the court as just behind Darius, Jared, DeAndre and Evan Like, he's someone that has had a
positive impact on that end. And I think framing it as offense and defense is something that you can do, But for me, it's energy. I feel like he brings consistent life and energy. That's something you really need in the regular season, particularly when you're in the stretch where you have pretty much locked up you know, the number one seed in the Eastern Conference. I know some people are starting to worry about that. That is not a
realistic concern. You guys can calm down about that. But when you have that already locked up, having a guy that's going to kind of lift you up collectively, I think that's valuable. I think you need to have that prioritize just a little higher in the rotation. I'm not saying he needs to be the seventh man here coming in off the bench, but I think eighth rather than ninth or tenth is probably where I would have him if you are going with a ten man rotation.
Yeah, which is so funny because I was sitting here thinking, I'm like, we're probably quibbling over four to five total minutes.
And again, that's exactly what we're doing, because you know that's sixteen minutes. That's perfect, like that, that's it. But that is one. On the eighth anniversary of this podcast, that rate there is exactly the Chase Down podcast we are we are putting over five. We are getting nitty gritty. We are talking about how someone needs to be bumped up to the eighth in the rotation rather than that is exactly what this podcast is about.
But yeah, I don't know, man, I just think, like, I think you're right. I think he does add a certain energy. He's a better athlete than a lot of their wing options in terms of just literal foot speed, uh, you know, which like adds a certain energy, a certain verb. I think he's been really good cutting. I think he's been really good in the baseline. I think he's been
really good in transition. I think he's been not gun shy from three, which is good enough for me, even though the percentage is still in rebound mode after that shoulder injury. And then I just think I don't think the CAB has been very good on defense the last couple of weeks, and he's the best point of attack defender on the team. And I think we saw a little bit of like I don't know, maybe this is not fair, but like during the end of that game when Hunter was on de Rosen, I was like, that's
not the same as Isaac on Derosen. No, you know, like at least that's how it felt to me. I mean, DeRozan got both of them a couple of times. He had a great game, don't get me wrong, and He'll get guys no matter who they are, So this is not like slander, but I still do feel like for guard defense and wing defense is still the best option on the team when you need stops. He's going to be the one that's going to deter people from getting
shots up. Like there was a couple of defensive possessions against the Clippers where he just completely ruined what they were doing in the half court right Like, you're not going to get a shot up because he's getting into you. He's disrupting your dribble, he's not letting you get to your spots. Whereas DeAndre Hunter, I think he's played really
good within the context of the system. But where he's really beneficial is you know those longer shooters where yeah, you're playing very good sound defense, but I'm just going to rise up even if i can't get to my spots. You know, you're Jason Tatum types. DeAndre does a terrific job of providing length in those instances. But I do think you're correct in pointing out, hey, there's you know, there's a difference here in terms of the way that they.
Impact things defensively, and I think getting athleticism on the court needs to be a priority. That's something that this team is lacked at times. And I just think with a variety of options putting yourself in a box where you are taking some length and athleticism off of the court and playing three guards, there's going to be Knights and there's going to be teams where you can do that.
I just don't think if you're going to have a set in stone rotation where at least for a first half, this is what we're going to do and then we're going to adjust in the second half. I don't think that that needs to be a mandatory look that you go to in the first half of every game. Yeah, it's like it's like the difference between like a perk
and like what you're building the house out of. Like I feel like knowing that they can go to that three yard lineup and if they really need a little extra ball handling juice and they need some three point movement off ball movement from Sam to try to ungunk things like all right, cool, let's see what that does. We're in a funk. Let's try that lineup. I just
don't like it as the starting choice. Yeah, Like in general, that's the way I felt about Sam is like I just don't I love and like talk about like a you know, they have so many options, they have such an abundance of choice because this team is good that like Sam two years ago would be a guy where we're just like play him, play him, like he's got to be in Whereas now they have this abundance of riches where I kind of am sitting and being like, hmm,
maybe that guy who I would have begged for against the next two years ago, maybe he should be our break glass in case of emergency option. Like two years ago, our break glass in case of emergency option was Danny Green on one leg. So like it is reflective of how good things are that we're even having this conversation.
And I think it's reflective of the fact that we've actually had all of the options available for a stretch, right, Like you said, this is the first time we're you know, we're really kind of giving some real thoughts to the rotation of hey do we want to be doing that? I think some of that is a product of now everybody is available, right, Like we've had the odd rest game here or there, the entire supporting cast has been available so we're finding out what decisions this coaching staff
wants to go with in terms of the rotation. I think the coaching staff is still making those decisions and making those determinations. I think it's important to point out, as we said earlier the Clippers, Sam was kind of that unquestioned seventh guy the rotation against the Kings that shifted. Okay, we're moved up within the rotation, Sam moved down. So I think this is something that Kenny's already doing it
and playing around with. But to me, what we're just discussing is kind of our feelings towards it, why we feel the way that we do it, and kind of the chain reaction of you know, other decisions that come from any of these moves.
Yeah, it's gonna be uh well, we'll see, we'll see. I think Danny Cunningham reported no injuries, I mean reported that the injury report said no injuries for tomorrow on the report, So so the team should be whole in that game. Uh did we get off the schnide against a all time bad Vibes Sun's team.
I mean, I hope so you know this not to rehash what we said the last time that the Cavs lost multiple games in a row. But it's all right, Like it's going to come down to when do they want this to stop? Because I think anytime this Cavs team has had a slump, it's largely been self inflicted. What they need to do to turn it around is all things that they've done this season. They have turned it around after slumping for a bit. We know exactly
what they're capable of doing. This isn't something that is producing those types of concerns for me of oh have we been figured out? Is our insanity run over? No, That's not the type of stuff that I'm worried about here. So my guess is just based on the history of this team. Yeah, they're going to turn it around. They're going to come out with a good effort. You know, having Darius back is going to make a difference. He still is that guy that elevates the offense more than
anybody else on the team. So I feel good about that. But we'll need to see, We'll need to see what effort they come out with.
Yeah, I'm hopeful they've really responded. You know, they won nineteen out of twenty games after their last three game a losing streak. They have been an unbelievably resilient team even when they've had these little goalies of play, so excited to see how they respond.
Do you have from this stretch, either a short term or long term concern that that's kind of been brought to the forefront of your mind.
No, I think the fact that in a way, I'm just kind of happy that if the if the Guards are gonna slump, they're slumping in March and not you know, and ideally not into I mean, there's no reason for me to think that they're going to just slump for the rest of the year. Uh you know, I mean, I guess it's ultimately possible, So I'd rather know slump
at all. But like, if you're gonna have a dip, giving yourself some runway to get yourself back into into good form, Like you know, I guess that that's my only real angst at this point. And it's like, I just want the Guards to be back to like their killerselves and justin I'm just gonna keep looking at that hand for jareded it bothers me, it answered me. Yeah, I feel I respect, I respect the crap out of him.
For going out there and buying every night in a league where a lot of guys don't do that when they're not at one hundred percent. But I just am like, is that gonna get better? It's like he took that he tried to do a power dribble with it against Sacramento and lost the ball right away. Like I just worry about that hand.
I did feel good about him breaking his fall on that one time and like not getting up and grimacing, like he just kind of got up after landing on both hands. Made me think back to to Maxa. I think it was against Orlando where he landed on his taped up hand and was in a lot of pain. So I was like, Okay, well, at least, you know, he could survive that that fall to the ground without reaggravating it in a dramatic way, So that was at
least a good sign. My my short term concerns are all injury related, Like just you know, Donovan's going get that back to one hundred percent, Jared, get that hand healed up. Make sure that there's nothing nagging my macro concern from this though I've already you know, I've already talked enough about DeAndre Hunter not playing enough with the core That continues to be a bit of a concern
for me. But a bit of my concern, you know, with guys dealing with some nagging stuff, is if we are managing you know, soft tissue issues and stuff like that down the stretch, it does prevent a little bit of a ramp up before the postseason. And that was something that Kenny said that he wanted to do, is all right, let's increase the minutes. Let's you know, let's test these guys in some of these games. If you're doing that makes it harder to accomplish those goals. And
I do think that Kenny has already started that. I think when you look at March, the minutes per game for the core guys has ticked up. It was all, you know, thirty and below. In March, Donovan's playing thirty three minutes again, Darius is playing thirty three, Mobley's playing thirty two. So I think Kenny's doing that in you know,
a responsible manner of ramping those minutes up. But if you're dealing with kind of these nagging issues, makes me wonder, okay, can you do a full ramp up or is this going to be something where, hey, you know, we weren't able to do it exactly how we were hoping to end the season, and we basically have to take advantage of this week off that we get during the play and to use this as a training camp and hit the ground running, maybe even using the first round as an opportunity to do so.
Yeah, and then you look at the other contenders around the league and you go, what, everyone else has these problems too. You know, Jalen Williams, Jalen Williams is hurt for Okay, see Bronson's hurt for the Knicks. Boston has a perpetual carousel of their guys missing time right now. So, like, you know, as just is, it would be not to just be in perfect form with this perfect upward curve on the way into the playoffs like this is not like anyone else is going to get that either. So like.
It. Whether it's fair or not, I'm fully self absorbed. I want the Calves to have as many competitive advantages as possible. I you know, when it comes to them versus Boston, Boston's going to be the favorite. Boston should be the favorite. We need to have our best game, We need to have our a game. We need to minimize the number of stretches that we were allowing Boston to go on runs because they're going to go on
runs in those games. They're likely going to steal a game in Cleveland, so you have to be you know, mentally ready for that and ready to take one back in Boston. All of that, the smallest little things, every little thing that contributes to the margin for error. I'm going to hope that that is maximized on the Calves side, any.
Hope as well. I just think it's good to like balance out the the angst with nothing that other teams are working through this now Okay, see it's just on a ridiculous tear right now anyway, but uh, you know, and that's why they have taken the number one overall seed away from us. But uh but uh but yeah, it's gonna be uh, it's gonna a lot to learn. Damn, the Rockets have won eight in a row. I didn't realize they reclaimed the two seeds anyway. Sorry, now I'm
just standings reading. No, it's very podcasting, there is.
Yeah, no, I think you know that's my biggest macro concern. I I don't worry about you know, can the defense work. Yeah, the defense, we we know exactly what this team is capable of doing. On that end. I think the offense has shown enough regular season track record here to not worry about that beyond, you know, the the normal concerns that we had of Hey, we need to see this
translate to the postseason for the first time. I don't think whether they finish hot or cold from that perspective, that's not going to you know, that being a question mark, that being a concern heading into the postseason. We need to see Darius elevate his game in the playoffs. I still feel like, you know, the Knick series was fine, but I want to see him take that step forward and you have a great series. I want to see
Evan Mobley have a great offensive series. I want to see everything click the way that we've seen a click in the regular season in the postseason. None of that's going to be answered here in the regular season. As I said before, we already know what the grade is for this year when it comes to the regular season. They've done the work, They've got their A plus. This is all just extra credit for the rest of the year.
But you know, it isn't going to impact the concerns or confidence heading into the playoffs for me, because I know that this team is capable of flipping the switch and being great in that spot. I also know that they are capable of letting their bad habits get the worst of them and making things tougher on themselves than they need to.
Yeah, I guess, I guess. You know, we can kind of close with me just saying like that is kind of nice though that their bad habits are not like what I would consider like fatal flaw bad habits. They're just like, oh, we weren't paying attention and turn it over like four times in six possessions. It's like that kind of stuff you presume won't be as much of a problem in the playoffs when you're sharper and every game is life and death. But I guess we'll see.
But like I don't see like you know too, Like like two years ago, it was like, hey, since the All Star break, we're thirtieth in defensive rebounding. That seems scary, Like I'm not seeing a lot of those bell weathers. You know, it's there's something there. We had a stretch where we've been on We've been traveling for a while, and the focus isn't there. As you said, turnovers. Hey, you know we lost in Newton game. We lost against
a team that's missing it stars. Those afternoon matinees. These these these children are staying up too late.
How many times has it been the other team's missing a star. We take the team a little too lightly and they end up winning that game like that. That kind of stuff is exactly the type of losses that we see with this team. That's not something that I'm worried about translating to the playoffs. The concerns are the concerns that are always going to be there, which are fair and valid, and that's just what teams get until they get you to the top of the mountaintop and
and win a championship. So we'll see how that pans out. Appreciate everyone tuning in on YouTube. Make sure you guys like and subscribe. Click that notification bell so you know when we're going live. If you're listening to via podcast and you want to supportus, leave us a rating in review, subscribe unsubscribed, You subscribe and help cook those books. You want to be a part of the Chase doown's exclusive discord chat sending screenshow that review to Chase down pot
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