This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it out car left wing free ball perfect?
Then he blocked the shot at the rim.
How with the left.
Hand head of foul.
Welcome to Chasetown Podcast, part of the CAZ Media family. I'm your host Justin Rohwan. The Chasetown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including FanDuel Sports Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot com slash CAZ if you can hear it in my voice. The Cleveland Cavaliers have lost their series to the Indiana Pacers in five games.
The game was close, they had a lead, Indiana made their push took a lead. The Cavs had a chance to tie it up near the end of the game, but ultimately came up short. The season is over. It stings and joining me today to discuss it as my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Carter, Hey, nobuddy, you know I'm feeling melancholy. You spend a lot of time investing into into this team, you know, Uh, Yeah. I always think about the thing I said to No I'm on this very podcast, our dear friend Jeff Nomena, that if our significant others had a hobby that left them this down, we would think they were out of their minds. And uh, you know, that's just that's just
that's just how I feel right now. I feel sad, Feel frustrated that, you know, they were banged up again and you really saw that, Feel disappointed that all the things that I was worried about them kind of came back to bite. Feel stupid. We're kind of for believing, you know, like you have all those kind of feelings
going through your brain. Yeah, yeah, just because like I really, you know, it's hard one for me to get to the point where I'm like, I think we might be able to win a title this year, you know, like that I take my time getting to that opinion. And not that I was ever. I mean, I wasn't gonna pick us in the next round if it was us versus the Celtics, which you know that's its own thing. Yeah, but yeah, you just I feel like you kind of are going through the feelings right now, and it's it's sad.
I'm just sad Man.
It definitely stings, and you know, one of the things I was reflecting on, you know, it's always tough when we go post game, you know, even if it's a win, to collect your thoughts and you know, kind of have that same level of preparedness we do with the other podcast. But one of the things I was kind of reflecting on is, you know, we've been doing this podcast since
twenty seventeen. This is the first time that you and I have done a podcast where the Cavs didn't go as far as we thought that they would at the start of a season. You know, in twenty seventeen and eighteen, we thought they'd make the finals. After Lebron left, we didn't say that this team was going to be a team that could make the playoffs or the postseason. You know, in those following years, I think we kept the expectations realistic and found things to care about during that time.
And you know, looking back at the last few years, yes, our expectations would grow within the season when this team would overachieve, you know, particularly that first year with Donald Mitchell where we said, okay, you know our goal for the season was to you know, make the playoffs, potentially get home court, but now we feel like we can actually win around So they've come up short of kind of those escalated expectations that we've had.
But this is the.
First time where we came into a season saying we think that this is a team that's going to make the conference finals. Anything less than that is going to be a failure. And I think, you know, all the contacts aside, I think that that's what the season was ultimately right, Like the regular season was success, It's why I compartmentalize the two. But they failed to come up to the level of their postseason goals. And I agree
with what Kenny Atkinson said before this game. I think it was exactly the same kind of thing that we were trying to say on the last podcast, which is injuries were obviously a factor, but I think they had enough to win this series. I think if this team was fully healthy, it would have been It probably would have been enough to cover up some of the bad
habits that we saw in this series. I think some of the issues that we've seen from the Cavs, I think they would have been able to out talent a lot of that, and I think it would have changed the complexion of the series. You know, you could sit here and say, well, you know, the calls go differently in game two. If the last two minutes is called properly, you know you're in a two to two situation and you feel better about it. I think they had enough to win this series with who is available in the
state that they were available. It just reduced their margin of error down to a level where some of the mental mistakes, some of you know, those demon in some of the issues that they've had in the past, came bubbling up to the surface and it wasn't problems that they could just out talent and overcome that way. So I think that in some ways that makes this a more informative series than it otherwise would have been, and I think there is a lot of lessons to learn from.
This doesn't make it any easier, though, Like I understand how people react in this situation, right like people are going to lash out. You know, I look at some prominent voices that have been vocal about the calves, and I could have told you what their takeaway from this game was going to be before the game even occurred, before the series even occurred. If the Calves came up short of expectations, like everyone's going to default to their priors, and you know, my instinct is to not lash out
the team. It's to lash out at the people that I disagree with. But none of that's healthy, right We're all looking to redirect our anger and our frustration in some other direction, and you know it's not healthy. But I empathize with the fans, right, Like, this was a lot of fun. This team gave you a lot of reasons to believe and coming up short just things.
Yeah, I mean, and I really do think a lot of uh not to go like full armchair psychologists here. I do think a lot of the mad on the timeline right now is finley disguised sad, you know, I think, and I think that's always sometimes I.
Just wish very closely related.
I just wish fans could kind of know, like a little bit better, like what their feelings are, and like, you know, I think I and you know, that's just part of it. And it's not like I didn't get pissy during this series myself. You know, there's so many things that I kind of keep going back to in terms of what this team needs to take away and I just think it's again, it's getting dragged into someone
else's style. Yeah, and I don't I'm not sure what the answer is there, dude, especially with and I think, you know, we have all off season to talk about the changes that gain and cannot be made. But like, you know, I don't know how you get past you know, you start the third quarter so crisp, so sharp, and
then you just stop playing basketball. Yeah, you know. And I know Indiana like cranked the pressure up, but I mean, and I know that Darius could not move and it got worse and worse over the course of the game in a way that was really really hard to watch.
Yeah, and I know.
That Donovan got you know, I either stepped on or need a knee or something like that on that three and and he had a he couldn't move that whole quarter either. But it was the lack of commitment to anything. You know, we have Max left wing Iso layup on Andrew nimhard like like you know, not to go full Patrick Ewing here, but like did you practice that shot?
Yeah?
Like is that what part of our offense has been Max struce isoing against the best defender on the other team's team against his set defense, Like that wasn't part of this team's brand or identity all year. It wasn't even their identity to have Donovan or Darius Iso against the other team's best player on offense all year. So like you can't even just tell me, like, well, those
guys are hurting. Someone's got to do it, Like, you know, I just think their stylistic resilience is the number one thing that like I thought I saw signs against Miami that they were going to be able to do it, And I just think the takeaway here is at Miami was just disastrously bad and not even close to being a playoff team, And we didn't learn anything from that series.
You know, I thought we learned a couple of things we didn't And until they can answer that stylistic imprint question, I just, you know, I just don't know if there's a lot of value in looking at any one individual blame focal point. You know, Jarrett's gonna catch a lot of hell all summer because he had two really you know, non bad games, non impactful games to close the series
the season, while guys like Thomas Bryant are feasting. But like you know, We've always said that, like kind of a Canarian the coal mine situation with this team and you know a team you know, and I go back to the Swiss Watch analogy I've made a bunch of times. You know, one grain of sand just takes the second best offense in the history of the sport in the regular season two, Max Strus isowing Andrew Nimhart on the
wing with like eighteen seconds left on the shot clock. Yeah, and like I just I wish I knew the answer to that, but I don't right now.
Yeah, well, I think the un fun answer because it's kind of boring and it doesn't really say a whole lot is when it comes to, you know, ability to maintain style of play, to impose your will and all that. Like, I think that's something that they're either going to figure
out or they're not. Like it's ultimately going to be something that through the experience, through you know, this failure, through their time together, that they eventually figure that out or it's going to be the reason why this team doesn't win a championship And doesn't you know, get as far in the postseason as we want them to write, they are going to underachieve in the postseason until that
aspect of things is figured out. And that was one of the things that Kenny Atkinson talked about post game. You know, he said that what they need to get over is that mental part of the game. He said that the next jump, the next leap that we have
to make is that mental strength. And you know, I think some of that comes down to chemistry and continuity, right, Like, that's one of the things of you know, when core members of a team get to play together for an extended period of time, you know, you can have those hiccups along the way, but usually when you kind of iron that out and you get to that level where it's second nature, where you know where everyone's going to be, you recognize when someone hasn't gone enough touches for an
extended period of time and do the right things to continue to impose your style of play. Like usually that's the kind of thing that takes time, right, Like, I think back to you know, Yokichen, Jamal Murray, those guys took seven years together, but before they won a championship. You know, uh, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, you know, both of them were kind of born on third base to some extent being drafted to an Eastern Conference final team. But even with that, you know, it took them six
years to get over the hump. That doesn't mean it's going to happen for this team, but I think that that is in fact the next step. Right, Like we you are able to bank on some you know, physical maturity and development, particularly when it comes to guys like Darius Garland and Evan Mobley who aren't in their primes yet. But I think as a collective, they need to get over that hump. And that's one of the things, honestly, before we continue on with the Cavs, we need to
credit the Indiana Pacers for that. They really did impose their style of play. They imposed you know, you felt like it was an Indiana Pacers game out there.
And you know in every playoff series of the of the Halliburton era, they've done this.
Yeah, they know who they are as a team. They stick with that style of play. Even if you get them out of that style of play for five six minutes, they are going to revert back to it. Right, Like it's water finding its level right anytime the the you know, the the boat gets rocked, that water is going to level out and they are going to be playing Indiana
Pacers basketball. And like I said, even with all the injuries, I think the Cavs had enough, and the way that the Indiana Pacers played ensured that it wasn't enough, and they need to be credited for that.
Yeah, I mean, I just I'm sorry. I don't think this Indie team is more talented. I think they have players who are very talented. I think this was a tough matchup for the Cavs because of all the there you know, all their pressure they put on you at the point of attack defensively, because of their five out.
Offense, which I think was a big part of the whole Jared thing, to be honest. And when we've seen him struggle, it's when a team's going five out and he's been nasa to switch and guard point guards and be taken away from the basket. Usually that's when you start to see, oh the rebounds dropped. Well, he's also standing out of three point line for a lot of the game.
Yep. But like you know, I mean, Thomas Bryant killed them in this series. Obi Topping killed them in the series. Calves didn't have any of that you know, and I don't think that's because INDI's bench or deep or mid you know, middle class of their rotation are so much more talented than the Calves. I think it's like the inverse of the canary in the coal mine. Like Indiana Pacer basketball does what the Calves Calves basketball did in
the regular season, which is makes things easy. Think about how many times we said over the regular season about you know, Okoro having good stretches, Wait, having good stretches, you know, Jerome going nuts, and and you know what did I say over and over and over again. I said, It's easy to play Calves basketball right now. It's not hard to be a Cleveland Cavalier. And sure looked hard in the series, and for the Pacers it just felt you know, Obi Toppins getting to do Doctor j scooped
layups and hell right now amazing. And you know, everyone up and down just seemed so comfortable in what their job was for so much of the series. And I do think that should be a real like wake up call for this team, because again it's not you know, I think even me and you are going to look at this and go, we need more, we need better and it's a natural reaction. But it's like just play better. Like sometimes it's that simple. I don't think the Calves
played more than one. You know, how many good quarters of basketball did the Calves play in this series? Not enough?
Yeah?
You know, uh, you know how committed were they to who they were? Not enough? And like that is where I just kind of like stall out in trying to figure out where to go because it's like, you had enough talent, you had the coach of the year, you didn't have health, which sucks, but like you didn't play well yep. And some of that is just like shooting. I mean, I'm i They're gonna be under thirty percent on wide open threes for the series.
Yeah, without a doubt.
You know, it was at twenty prior to this game. I can almost guarantee you that that went down tonight.
Yeah. So and so like I don't know, man, Like I don't know what you do with uh we we are a team of good shooters that can't shoot in the playoffs. Like some of this stuff is just you know, we're at the hard problem to solve portion you know, of the of the of the team life cycle, it's not really that hard. To be in a rebuild, you take swings on young players, you you try to find an identity. It's hard to get out of a rebuild, but the choice that individual choices are easy. You take on.
You win as many trades as you can get, as you can win. You leverage your position as a team that's not a competitive contender to find all these incremental moves. But like, we're at the stage where I'm like, I don't know what you're supposed to do. I don't I don't see the structural change because I really do think at the end of the day, and I'm it's the least satisfying thing for a podcaster who has to talk all summer to say, which is I think they just
need to play better. Yeah, and and until they do, I just I don't know where to go with that. Yeah.
It comes down to channeling that experience challenge, you know, finding the mental toughness within this failure, within what happened this season, you know, the self reflection and doing what.
Needs to be done.
And that's not something that's easy to talk about, right, Like you could sit here and say, oh, look look how they shot from the free throw line. They need to shoot five thousand free throws a day, and that's what's.
Going to do it.
Like, you know, you can kind of say that stuff to make yourself feel better, but it really, as Kenny said, it comes down to that mental aspect of the game. It comes down to getting over that hump to to find ways to be more resilient where you know, injuries aren't taking them out to the same extent that they are. And you know, some of this is bad luck, right, Like, it sucks that it all hit. At the same time, it sucks that, you know, you look at what the
Indiana Pacers were able to do physically. This is different than the last couple of years. You know, like people just see the word physicality, they're like, oh, you know, same Calves, blah blah blah. This is completely different. Four out of five games in this series, the Calves absolutely dominant dominated Indy on the offensive glass and points in the paint. That's that's what the issue was for the
most part. Yeah, that's what the Calves issue was in some of these past series, right Like that's where they got beat up by the Knicks. That's you know, that was the discussion against the Orlando Magic Boston that wasn't the case because it was you know, it was just you know gang, yeah, like, you know, that's not what it's been. This was completely different. Indy was giving you pressure and physicality on the perimeter. They recognized that the
Calves guards were limited. Mitchell was playing through you know, that ankle and calf. Throughout this entire series, he's been dealing with it. You know, it's some form of something, you know, since the beginning of March. So we're at two and a half months now of you know, Mitchell struggling uh physically and and finding ways to be effective.
But between Mitchell being limited, between Darius being limited, and Ty just not being able to turn the corner, versus that pressure at all, it completely changed the complexion of the Calves offense. And you know, one of the ways to break that is playing through the bigs. That's what we talked about on the last podcast. That's how the
Cavs started this game. To their credit, they were using Evan Mobley and Jared Allen as the roleman and not only were they scoring individually, it was generating clean looks. But Indy started taking that away. They started cheating off of Mitchell and Garland, at times they were treating them like Isaac Okoro out there, where they were basically daring them to shoot because everything that those guys were thrown
up was coming up short. And you know, that's one of those things where you know, I can sit here and I still think that there were ways to get the Bigs involved. I think you could have continued to find ways to get them the ball downhill. I think they went away from it. I would have liked to see them try and fail more than they did with
what ind was doing, you know, defensively. But at the same time, a big part of this equation is they were able to cheat off two of the most dynamic guards in the NBA, one of the best backcourts in the NBA. And you know Darius is out there shooting, what did he shoot? Four sixteen, Mitchell eight of twenty five. Neither of them could hit from three. That's going to mess up your spacing. I'm sorry, it just is. That's
going to be part of the equation here. So I still think that what they did going away from the bigs is alarming. You know, last year or you know, coming into training camp, Kenny apparently had you know, a reduced shot clock where they were playing with an eighteen second shot clock, and training camp to make sure that they were getting to their sets quicker, that they played with pace and tempo. The rule this year going into training camp is nobody gets to take a shot until
Evan Mobley's touched the basketball at least once. That should be the training camp philosophy. But I do think when you are diagnosing what went wrong here, the limited physical state that Donnald Mitchell and Darius Garland were in has to be part of the equation if you're going to have an honest conversation.
Yeah, and sure that's all true, and yes, Indy was able to dig harder on these on these roles for Evan and Jarrett. But I think that's where I'm the most disappointed, because you mentioned, you know, this isn't the physicality problems of two years ago. They are winning at the points the paying battle in this series. They are getting to the line in this series. They are getting
offensive rebounds in the series. But it's almost more painful to know that against New York it wasn't really an option to go to the biggs because neither of those guys were ready to help. And against Indy, they kind of just didn't try. I'm sorry, I just don't think they tried enough. They and you know, Evan finishes this postseason never attempting more than thirteen shots in a game across the nine games. And when I say they don't try, I'm not saying they didn't, you know, in those literal
since they tried. Yeah, but they only tried one way. They only tried running pick and roll and handoffs, and those are the things that are the easiest to cheat off of because especially with limited mobility guards, because you can just grab them on the way around and you know, and blow up the play. Where are clear out post ups? Where are inverted pick and rolls? Where are big, big pick and rolls? Did they run a single Mobile Allen
pick and roll in this series? No shot? Did they ever just clear out and let Mobley get a post touch against Pascal Siakam, who he consistently drew fouls on, consistently was able to attack and draw help. Like like, yeah, you can call out that that they were cheating off of Mobile and Daria or I'm sorry, Donovan and Darius, and they were, but the Cabs kind of let them have it their way. Where they got to cheat off of them and the Cabs weren't even getting a parade
of wide open threes. Like like the offense wasn't healthy in this series at the end of the day. Yep, it just wasn't. And and that's not a shooting variance problem if they were trying all these different ways to draw the help and you know, uh and Aaron Nesmith had to help from the weak side corner to crash down on an Evan Mobley post up and we got
them in rotation that way. I can kind of live that way, pick and roll and dribble handoffing Tyrese Halliburton, who was really pretty excellent defensively, I thought in this series, you know, stayed connected, leveraged his size, got key shot blocks when it mattered, Like it just felt like hitting
your head against the brick wall brick wall. And you don't get to do that strategy when Darius and Donovan can't play the way they want to and Tis Rome's having the worst you know, five games of his career, so like that is I think That's where I'm frustrated, and like when I'm looking at like the tactics of what you know, what they can do. That's better than just play better. It's like, hey, you're you've got to change your attack. You've got to change the way you're
going to do this. You know, there were so many plays where even when they got a switch and it was Nie Smith on Evan and Evan was like had a foot in the paint, they didn't even look about it at an entry pass, you know, like and until they do that kind of stuff. Like the whole freaking point of the Evan Mobley experience this season was to diversify your game in a way that made not this happen.
To make an offense more playoff proof.
Yeah, like you could have used Tarry Easen the way that Evan was used in this series. Like, and that's and that I think is probably what I will leave as my like, Like, I mean, my biggest disappointment is that they lost the way they lost, but like at a tactical level, my biggest disappointment is the usage of Evan.
Yeah, honestly, that that was the thought that I hadn't really got to Like, I like the way that you described it there right where you know, it's different than the past because there were tools left in the tool belt that were unused, right, and it's just crazy to have tools at your disposal and not use it, Which
is why I take advantage of zoom Ai Companion. Because only you can do your best work, zoom Ai Companion can help you do the rest, like automatically taking notes, answering meeting questions, and helping you respond to your coworker. Available at no additional cost with eligible paid plans. Were happy with zoom Ai Companion. I do say, like, I don't want it to get lost. You know, the effort that they gave in this game overall, like I thought,
they lost control obviously in the third quarter. That was very frustrating. It was frustrating to see that lead evaporate. I appreciate the fact that they did continue to fight and you know, have a chance to tie it up near the end. You know, obviously Mitchell missing those three free throws was a killer, particularly after you know he hit the three right, like, you know, all of that stuff's a killer. But when you see you know, Mitchell limping out there, but still, like you said before, when
he'd get knocked down, he'd bounce right back up. When you see Darius Garland limping, you know, the other games, it took a little while for him to be limping. This one he started like it was very clear that, you know, he was in a lot of pain. I was actually really surprised that, despite the fact that, you know, he was on a bum wheel the entire time, he moved well laterally defensively, Like it wasn't like I'm saving myself for the offensive end. I'm just going to give
you a burst on that end. I felt like the effort on the defensive end was more consistent, right, Like he was staying in front of Andrew Nemhart, you know, drawing that offensive foul because Nemhart couldn't turn the corner on him and pushed him with the arm right he was competing in those switches and the mismatches. I didn't feel like that was something that Indie ever really exploited when he.
Was out there.
So I got to give him credit, you know, for competing the way he did. I got to give him and Donovan a lot of credit for how they competed, because you know, you can't sit here and say, hey, you know, whatever you are able to give the team, go out and do it and then be upset that it doesn't look the way that you wanted to look.
Yeah, and I think Donovan leaves this run, you know. I I think last year everyone left Donovan's run being like that's that guy. Yeah, And I think me and you were like, I mean, he is, but I didn't love the way we got there. Yeah.
It was in a healthy offensive ecosystem, like he was doing everything he could to to you know, drag the team, but you know it, it was tough.
I think this year I was just purely pretty darn impressed by him. He was the only one who consistently made Indiana react to him in this series and like, yeah, he does hold you know. I I think he takes some accountability for Evan not getting the ball, you know, as much as I would have liked to see and stuff like that. But just overall, his physicality is you know, a series where he can't shoot and he just responds by getting, you know, to the lion like fifteen times
a game. I didn't know if he had that kind of series in him, yeah, you know, and really hard earned rim attacks over and over and over again. And so I do think Donovan kind of comes out of this feeling, you know, smelling the best, despite obviously the way the way it ends.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I've been really really impressed with him, you know, all all season long. I think, you know, the sacrifice that he's shown has been incredibly impressive. I thought, you know, there were times where you know, you can have your gripes.
I felt like off ball defense was not that it wasn't his strongest series on that end of the court, but it's hard to complain when you know that the guy he's dealing with lower body ailments, whether you know it's the ankle, the calf, everything's been you know, bothering him, and you know, I think one of the things that I was happy that Kenny addressed in the post game issue, I think it was Joe Barden then asked him the question basically about, you know, the team having their minutes
managed all season, was conditioning a factor? Were were they in kind of the playoff shape that you wanted? And I think it has more to do like we couldn't even really see if this team was capable of a minute ramp up in the playoffs just because they were, you know, playing hurt for the competitive games. It's not like you're going to play the guys forty minutes against Miami when you're up forty points, So that's just kind of a you know, there's.
No point in that.
But Kenny did say, you know what we had heard that you know, there was a plan to ramp up minutes after the All Star break, but you know, between this grilling schedule that they had some of the nagging injuries that you know, Donovan was dealing with at the time, and the fact that a lot of their wins there were up twenty and you know, twenty thirty points made it harder for them to do the ramp up. He said, we only kind of did an okay job of that, and I think that's going to be one of the
things they need to reflect on. Remember, I said at the start of the season, when they were managing the minutes and the minutes were so damn low, I said, you know, one of the things that came to mind was concern about how that used to affect the Milwaukee Bucks, where Budenholzer would manage the minutes and you could tell
that Giannis would get tired in the playoffs. I don't know how much of a factor that was in this, but I think when you're doing that self reflecting and assessing, you have to ask, is there something we can do to put ourselves in a better position physically for when it comes to the playoffs, Because.
Yeah, I don't freaking know. I just don't know, you know, Like Darius, it's turf toe, yeah, you know, like that's that's Evan lands On, Miles Turner's ankle, you know, Donovan just Donovan is like I mean, every injury Donovan's ever had is a heavy usage injury.
Yeah.
So it's like, I just don't know if you can cook up a better game plan.
Yeah, and like and like this is the first time Darius has got hurt in the playoffs, right, Like last year it's the after effects of the jaw issue and you know, everything he was dealing with the family and stuff like that. So like, I I understand what you're saying, Like some of this stuff is fluke that you can't control, right, Like, you know, things certain I just don't.
Think I'm gonna go back to just like be better, like don't get guessed, Like, don't get beat up, don't get hit first every time, Diversify your offensive game plan in a way that allows you to not require Evan or require Donovan to try to brush off Andrew Neimhard nine straight screens in a row every possession, like they're tired because they're playing a tiring style that has them on the back foot. Like yeah, Indy, I didn't see Indy tired. And it's not because Haliburton played forty three
minutes a game. Andy didn't look tired because they one are used to play like this in terms of what they're doing on the on the court, and because they dictated the freaking terms yea they play. It's tiring to get to be dragged around by someone and try to disconnect.
I would absolutely love to try to turn Tyrese Haliburn into a score inside the three point line. Would run him off that damn three point line, turn him into a score. Has he ever beat a team that way? It's always you know, finding guys as a distributor and that step back to going to his left, like he is.
Able to shoot that from forty feet. It's what he does.
Uh, didn't make them uncomfortable, but you know, when it comes to you know, better physical being prepared for the physicality of the playoffs and being in you know, peak shape at that time. You're right, Like you the issues that Donovan has had has been high usage type stuff, right, Like it's it's a bit of a consistent trend for him. He's when he comes to the playoffs, he's usually dealing
with something with his lower body. You know, I think the Knick series was the only time it wasn't at that time it was I believe a broken finger on his left hand. But you look at the last four years of him in the playoffs, you know, including the year prior to coming to Cleveland. What do you think he's shooting from three carter and I think this has solely to do with lower body wear and tearor he's shooting thirty percent, he is eighty of two point fifty nine. Like, yep,
that's it's been a consistent thing for him. And you know, to his credit, he has found ways to be that dude, to be someone that you know, has a historic streak of game one storing, you know, thirty points that that past Michael Jordan. He has been that dude. I'm very, very happy with the effort that we got from him in these playoffs. But this all comes back to you. We're sitting here trying to win a championship with a team that doesn't have a certified top five type talent.
That means we need to get every guy that was, you know, an All Star in all NBA consideration this year, namely our top three to all be maximized as much as possible. And I think when we've seen with Donovan is that to maximize him, you got to make sure that you are managing his load so he's able to be that knockout punch, not somebody that's pulling the cart up hill the whole time. And I think, as you said, that comes down to making sure that Evan Mobley is
involved in taking a load off these guys. That means, you know, Darius has to play a major part in this, because we have seen when Donovan's trying to make up for the absence of Darius Garland, things usually go poorly for him physically, whether that was that twelve and four stretch that they had last year where he missed the entire post All Star break stretch, or you know, playing through these first two games against Indiana without Darius, like
it takes a toll on him. And you know, whether that's Darius and Evan or just you know, better backup point guard play. I think all of that needs to be taken into consideration when we look at this afseason.
To your point, I mean, when did the Cavs offense look at best in this series? I would argue it's when Donovan got catch and shoot three point attempts yep, you know. And when did his jumper look the best when he got catch and shoot three point attempts? You know. Some of that as Darius just not being there, Ty not be in there. Some of it is the stylistic stuff, not going to Evan, not using the muscles you trained up all year. Some of its indies awesome. I think they're going to make the finals.
I think they're they're better than the next like the Knicks are advancing primarily because of you.
Know that injury.
I'm well, I wouldn't say that they were going to win that game and go up three to one, and you have to give them a lot of credit. They're better than I thought they. I thought they had no shot in that series. And yes I'm.
Wrong, again more to do with Boston than them, but it might.
But you still got to give him. I mean, talk about a spot to give credit. But like in terms of giving credit to the Pacers. It's funny I left that Knick series feeling like this Calves team has a lot of soul searching to do and a lot of like structural improvements to make really more the latter than the former. Everyone else wanted soul searching. I just wanted a roster that made sense. You wanted a supporting cast
that you know. But I didn't leave that series thinking about the ways I thought the Calves needed to emulate the New York Knicks. I'm leaving this series thinking about ways that the Caves should be emulating the Indiana Pacers. I agree, surely, And I don't think there's a nicer thing I can say to the Indiana Pacers than that.
Yeah, they're more than the sum of their parts, like quite a bit more. What they are able to do defensively with the personnel they have is impressive. Their defense is better than their personnel. I would argue even their offense is better than their personnel. Right, Like, guys that are so so shooters are really putting in a position to succeed. We need to get to there because I think that this team is capable of doing that. I
think any team is capable of doing that. But I don't think that they were more than there's some of the parts. I think they had really really awesome parts. And when things were going easy in the regular season that came through. They had a ton of depth. They had a ton of top end talent. Right basically our pre series diagnosis against the series in the Miami Heat,
why did I pick a sweep? Well, because the Cavs probably have at least the best two players in the series, maybe three, and the Heat's bench is going up against the two of the top three six Men of the Year candidates. We had the advantage in the starting lineup and we had the advantage on the bench, and that's
exactly what we saw in that series. We can't be in a position where we are less than are some of our parts, because when you're trying to win a championship without a bona fide top five player, you need to be that. When you saw the Detroit Piston win and beat the Lakers, that's how they did it. When when you you know, even I don't want to say the Toronto Raptors, that's too weird, and you know people
love to credit why, so I won't go there. But when when you have seen teams like this historically go out and win, they are more than some of their parts. And that's one of the things that the cast need to get to.
Yeah, oh man, I'm sad. Uh you know, it's just uh, you know, the one thing everyone's gonna roll their eyes at, you know, pontificating Carter doing his thing that he always does. But like I will say that this is why you can't be a results based sports fan. You just can't because it's too painful. Like I feel a lot of pain right now, but at least I had fun the whole way, you know, and I found the whole thing.
I don't think the people that were miserable the whole way being like do it in the playoffs are less miserable now. I think they're probably just as angry as they would be if they had some fun this year.
And and frankly, I actually don't think there was that much of that this year. I think most people just it was such a fun ride that even the cynics and the skeptics got on board or just shut the hell up, you know, you know, And I would say it's a healthy split, honestly. But and now, and I think some of those folks there, I think a lot
of people's reaction like shit, dude. My reaction just at the beginning of this podcast was like, I feel stupid for believing, you know, but like I do think it's a really bad impulse to let take root because like, the fun is the believing. The fun is the excitement. Like I don't like like, I'm not on the court, I'm not a coach, I'm not a I'm not a front office member. The only thing that's fun about this is the fun is the is the belief is the journey and uh.
And there's nothing more satisfying than a team you care about overcoming things and growing, right, like seeing the journey, see going through.
The issues, Like that's that's what it's.
About for me.
And they might not overcome this, right, like the inability to become more than some of their parts in this setting, to impose their style of play upon the opponent and dictate the terms of engagement. That might ultimately be what though it holds them back, But I I care about the problem solving. I care about them trying to overcome that. And I'm Carter. I gotta be honest. I'm ready to run through a wall again because I just saw Donald Mitchell's quote postgame.
Have you seen it yet?
I did? You can you can pare phrase that if you'd like.
Yeah, he said, y'all are going to write us off, but we'll be back, and hell y, I Donnie, Hell yeah.
That's the energy you want to see at the end of the day. I do really think that these guys do believe in each other, do have that kind of camaraderie, and like that is the last that The other big challenge at this point is is the is maintaining collective belief because these guys it's over. This era will be over the second these guys don't think they can do it. Yeah. You know, we've seen so many good teams, really really quality competitive teams that just the second they lost it.
And it's not an individual belief. I think all these guys are always gon Yeah. NBA players are wired like psychos. Yeah, they're all going to believe in themselves individually. But if they lose belief in the journey, well then you might as well just start over. Yeah, because you know that's the only thing I'm not ever gonna that's the only time it's not going to be fun for me is
watching a team that doesn't believe in itself anymore. So, like that Donovan quote is important for me as a fan going through this experience.
I completely agree, And you know, I think this team has a lot of reasons to still believe.
You know, the one thing that we have.
Consistently heard is, you know, this team will go as far as Evan Mobley is willing to take us or able to take us. I do think reflecting on this series and reflecting back on the whole year, I think this wasn't just something that changed in the playoffs where hey, you know, we kind of neglected Evan for stretches of the game. We could have continued to feed him. We could have used that to, you know, overcome pressure that
teams are throwing at us. I think there were times throughout this entire season where Evin kind of would go on the back burner. He would have great quarters, we didn't consistently feed him. That was a habit from the
regular season that carried forward to the playoffs. I think we need to put our money where our mouth is when it comes to that, where you know, even if it costs regular season games, which we said that last year where we're like, we gotta let Evan explore the space, and you know, his improvement needs to matter even if it costs you some regular season games. We said that
going into last year and they won sixty four. So I don't think that Evan Mobiley, you know, being a larger focal point and that sustained point of emphasis is something that's going to make this team worse. I do think it actually needs to be a sustained point of emphasis. I think we have not gone out, as I said on the last podcast, we haven't had a five to twenty Evan Mobley game where you know, we just continue to try to feed them and it just didn't work out.
That has never occurred. And I think in the regular season you were able to get away with going away from Evan Mobley because Darius and Donovan were so damn good, because Ty was so damn good, because you know, DeAndre Hunter was coming in and giving you a lot off the bench. You were able to get away with that because this team had so many options. But when it comes to the playoffs, your star players matter more than ever, and Evan Mobley needs to be a sustained important part of that equation.
Yeah, you're you're absolutely right. Man, sucks. Sucks to lose. But you know, before we sign off, I do think we should just get get around to thank you, thank you, to wait wait wait, wait, you got thank you.
I do have one more thing I want to touch on. Okay, I do think it actually is really important and if we're going to be emotional and vulnerable here, but let's just go through it all because what happened with Jason Tatum absolutely sucks. I think it is terrible for the NBA, and as a Cavs fan that wanted to see this team tested against the healthy Celtics. I want a healthy Calves versus healthy Celtics. It looks like we're not going
to get that opportunity. It bums me the hell out seeing him, you know, on the ground, yelling, knowing that the injury itself not that painful, but the emotion that you go through in that spot, it's just absolutely terrible. I feel for Celtics fans, you know, I enjoy beating them. I want to see Boston fail, but I don't want
to see it like that. It really really sucks, and that's going to be something that changes the calculus of this offseason, right, like when we're evaluating how the Caves stack up against the East, Jason Tatum not being on Boston next year is going to be a big part of it, and it's going to change their team building. It It just sucks, man, I I feel sick. You know, We've been talking about how the NBA needs to market it's the younger stars and continue to push that next generation.
As you know, the Lebron staff all kind of age out, and Tatum was going to be a big part of that. Even if it was someone that I was rooting against.
I absolutely hate it.
And it's unfortunately it's going to be relevant to the Kavs off season, Like I think it is something that that's going to have to be part of the calculus here.
Yeah. Well, it's obviously a bumber. You hope you know he comes back right, just you know, it's just not what you want to see at the end of the day. But you're right, it's going to be a factor in how I mean, it's a landscape changer for the for the NBA. One of those kinds of injuries. So can I get to some thank you real quick? Yes?
I just wanted to to talk about that.
Uhh, just big thanks to our listeners for the over the course of the season. It's been a blast. Thanks to those folks, especially those that hang on the YouTube chat with us, you know almost you know, twice a week. Uh and and hang out with us. Thank you to uh Do the Calves for all their support and taking good care of us. Matt Old Brenna. You guys are
just heroes. Thanks to our boy Conrad who helps us out with some social content at the end of the year getting some clips put out and uh and uh yeah, just thank you and then thank you to you, buddy.
I just.
I'm a sad, sad boy tonight, but doing this thing is always really special with you and I really appreciate our friendship and uh that you know the podcast training't gonna stop anytime soon.
Hell yeah, buddy, obviously I echo your sentiments. Nothing wearing to do it would be possible without our listeners. Everyone that you know supports us that shares the podcast.
You know, word of mouth.
Is still one of the most effective ways to help support us. And we really do appreciate you guys and obviously the team you know at the Cavs. I really really cherish the fact that we haven't had to change the podcast. We can sit here and we can be critical,
we can wear our hearts on our sleeves. We can be you know, the Homers that we are, while still making an effort to give you guys real analysis, right Like, I think it's a really really special thing that we're able to do, and it's exactly what was promised, And honestly, it makes me want to be a better fan. It makes me want to be a better analyst, right like. It makes me want to attack this offseason and try to become better as a podcaster and you know, further
my understanding of the game. And I don't think that I would have that same drive if we weren't supported the way that we are, both our listeners and the people that you know root for us out there, as well as the team itself.
So we it's.
Crazy that we're saying that it still remains a very surreal partnership, but I definitely think, you know, it's it's really really meaningful to us, so big big thanks to everybody that supports us in so many different ways, and we will be doing our normal off season tradition of taking a week off after going live after all of these games, or at least recapping all of these games.
Hard.
I know you got some travel ahead of you this weekend, right.
Yeah, across your fingers gang. On Tuesday, I'm going to New York see if I win an Emmy.
Hopefully, by the time we are doing this podcast again, you are doing it with an Emmy rooting for you, buddy.
I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little floating shelf back there.
You know, you have to.
You have to.
Any any sports podcaster that has an Emmy has to put in the background.
It's even if it's not related to the podcast.
Yeah, I had to write an acceptance speech. Isn't that crazy. We're not gonna win, It's fine, but but yeah, cross your fingers gang.
In case we do, we are going to be rooting for you, buddy. And then you know, yeah, as I said, we will take next week off, we will come back kind of do our recap of the season. I'm sure at that time, you know, the team will have spoken, Kobe will have spoken it, and we'll have some stuff to talk about and we'll start tackling this off season. Man, I'm obviously a little excited. I'm I'm ready to get hurt again. Sea Bear season starts on Friday, so I
will be tapping into that. But yeah, this obviously sucks. You don't want to see this season end this way. But this isn't the end. This isn't the end of the cast, This isn't the end of this group, this isn't the end of the podcast. We are going to come back better next year. I firmly believe that. Oh yeah, rather big thanks again to everyone that supports us. If you're watching live on YouTube, make sure you guys like and subscribe. Click that notification bell so you know one
we're going live. If you're listening via podcast and you want to support us, leave us a rating or view, subscribe, unsubscribe to subscribe and help cook those books. You want to be part of Chase downs exclusive discord chat, sendy screenshow view to Chase Downpod at gmail dot com. However you choose the support us, we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying safe out there until next time. Yo. Get