Special Episode: Behind the Scenes - with Helen Lundebye

Welcome to the CDR Policy Scoop, where we unpack carbon removal policy in 13 minutes or less. My name is Sebastian Manhart. And I am Evel Tamme. Hello, everyone. Welcome to a special edition of the CDR Policy Scoop. And first of all, we want to wish everyone a very happy new year. My name is Helen Lindby, and I have the absolute pleasure of being the producer of the scoop. And today we're going to be doing something a little bit different.

Instead of diving into a specific policy issue, we're actually going to be pulling back the curtain on the podcast itself. The ideas behind it, reflecting back over the last 56 episodes that we've done, and we're hoping to explore the yearhead as well. So, Sebastian Eve, welcome to your own show.

Well, thank you for doing this, Helen. I mean, you're the Wonder Woman behind the show that people don't get to see and hear usually, but without you, all of this would not exist. Yes, definitely much more comfortable behind the scenes. Thank you for allowing me to be here in front of the cameras today. Yeah, I'm excited.

As is with all our episodes, I'm going to premise that this is a conversation and not a webinar, which is something we tell our guests every time. So I'm really excited that, Eve and Sebastian, you are kind of on the other receiving end of this this time, and I get to ask you the questions which you haven't seen before. I'm a bit nervous. All right. So without further ado, because at The Scoop, we like to keep things prompt and timely. So let's get started.

So I wanted to start with kind of the origin of this. So I'm going to take us back all the way to the very first live stream, even before we had the podcast. And Eva, you shared that an acquaintance of yours kind of was surprised that you were doing this with Sebastian and they thought that you were frenemies. And Sebastian replied, yeah, we hate each other, but we teamed up just for this. Forgot about that one. Yeah. So tell me, how did this all get started? Where did it start, Eva?

I mean, the way I remember it, there are always two stories, right? The way I remember it, we were walking on the beach in Portugal with Sebastian's dog and thinking that at some point we should...

do something together. Let's just like discuss what is happening, but actually collaborate on something. And after that walk, we kind of put a pin on this. And then a few months later, Sebastian reached out with the actual idea, okay, now that the format of this collaboration, given that we're both on LinkedIn and we both have large networks there, what about doing LinkedIn Lives?

And we really, like, the whole point was LinkedIn Live. There was no point on doing a podcast or anything else. It's just that we are already both on that platform. Let's see if we do a live session. If anyone turns up, right? Maybe no one does. We will find out if we try. That's how I remember it. And I recall I had a couple of months to think about how we could collaborate because you had a baby.

Right, in between that walk in Portugal when you were pregnant and then you had a baby. Yeah, that I specifically didn't mention, but thank you for mentioning. And then we, I remember I had a couple of months of time. And when I pitched this to you, I mean, it was, yeah, I don't know. Your kid was a couple of months old and you had very little time.

And so I was very aware that I needed to present something to you that was doable with minimal effort, right? So the idea was basically to just show up. And that's kind of became the DNA of the podcast as well, right? The idea was just, I promise you, all you need to do is show up and talk to me for half an hour. You don't need to do anything else. You're like, yeah, okay, maybe I can do that. That's just about as much as I can commit to right now.

And that's how it got going. And it's funny because that's kind of how we took that into our episodes with guests as well, right? It's the whole idea of kind of, you just show up and talk. We're not going to tell you before what's going to happen. But yeah, I recall that this was, I had to give you an attractive offer that you could manage.

Tables have turned, actually. I mean, it's kind of settling a bit, but I had a kid, right? And so, yeah, I was very grateful for this format. But yeah, it keeps it interesting. That's one thing that this is something that is still manageable with a newborn because you can, you know, kind of time the things around it. And luckily, of course, by now I don't have a newborn anymore. So those times are over also even for you.

But then there was another origin story to some extent. The fact that we were not very happy with the way webinars were run. And we felt like... It's missing out on a more dynamic conversation. Oftentimes there are way too scripted. Everyone gets a question. The questions are not even related. There is no common thread.

And we felt like we want to do something where the conversation is more real and you keep it more real if you don't script it. So that's why we don't share questions in advance. That's why we have real reactions. That's why we don't discuss even with each other. any of the topics on purpose because then we get the real reactions and real questions when we're discussing it during our sessions. I just think it makes so much more sense like this.

And actually, remember, a fun thing I'll say here is I pitched this to you, I remember. And before we even did our first live, we had a webinar together.

yeah and i remember that we we did that webinar and after that we both came out like yeah we do we're so doing our our own format because it was exactly this like the moderator had agreed to keep it really casual and right free-flowing and then it was every it was literally the most scripted webinar ever yeah and me and you got so frustrated and we were like yes we're doing our own thing

Oh, well, great. You kind of got one of my questions already. So I guess the next thing I wanted to ask was a little bit like how do each of your backgrounds shape the way that you kind of approach these policy discussions? I mean, I know you have probably very different backgrounds and instincts. So how do you guys align or how did you come at this from different angles?

We don't align. Do we? Well, we have to align on the topics. Oh, that is true. Yeah. I thought during the sessions. Yeah. I do think that Eva and I are very different, right? I'm a newbie compared to Eva. by all means. And I approach things differently in the space. I also look at slightly different topics, but I also know where I am a newbie and wherever is a veteran. And so I think it's important to play to each other's strengths.

And so far, I found that it's very complementary, like they're obviously topics that we both work on, especially at the EU level. But besides the EU... It's yeah, I mean, you've got a real focus on CCS, right on UN. I do much more work at member state. I'm very interested in what's happening all across the globe in different countries. And I think we've tried to naturally bring these two perspectives to the table.

Yeah, that sums it up really well because I look at things a lot like from the policy design perspective and kind of direction of travel and a lot of like where things are coming from because I've been around for so long. But then Sebastian has this, he always has the numbers, right? Always does the research. I think people might have noticed that I tend to mention a lot less numbers than Sebastian does. It's just because, you know, his prep is always on point.

And you have a lot of insights on the country level. I specifically don't focus on that because already with what I'm working on when it comes to carbon markets, carbon removal, carbon capture, there is... a lot to digest and follow so i have done this i've made this deliberate choice not to focus on the country level but it's really good to have sebastian who does focus on that

And plus we are as persons so different, very different styles. It's just great to, our questions to guests come from a very different place. So I think.

Because of that, the sessions we do at the Scoop are also better quality. So what are some of the things that you've kind of learned from each other from doing this together as a project? Discipline. Sebastian. has discipline. It's the one thing I've got going for me. But I mean, that's how did we get to 56 episodes? It's actually really hard. And I actually, I personally, one thing I've learned in my career is that a lot of success and impact comes from pure consistency.

And from just sticking at it, because it's so easy to not stick at it and to just let go, right? And I'm really, really proud that we've basically done an episode per week, like over the year, in that period where you were a young mother and I had a kid, right? And despite all of that, we managed to somehow, not always consistently, but... overall pretty consistently dish them out and for you you you i mean you're incredibly reliable as a

as a partner on this right like thank you it's super easy to to do the scoop with you because you just you say you're going to do something and you do it yeah and that's what we kind of needed to to keep the the policy scoop going so long right Same for Sebastian. I think you are great at building systems. So I have learned a lot around that kind of framework, building systems.

and building that consistency. I obviously knew to expect that because I have seen what you have built over at LinkedIn and I know exactly how hard it is to be. on the platform like LinkedIn and post consistently. That's why most people don't manage because it takes actually a lot of effort, planning and vision.

So the fact that you've been able to do that for so long and you've been able to build what you have there, a lot of that, in my view, translates into many other things that you have done and including the scoop. So, yeah, it's just... I mean, collaborating with Sebastian is just easy. And I think that's why we also keep going, right? Because it's enjoyable. Because Helen's in the background. Yes! That's why it's easy.

She keeps me on my toes. Behind every great man is a great woman. Several great women, usually. One thing as well that I just want to call out, like for me, the whole reason of doing the scoop primarily was to learn from you. right because i did think how do i get to talk to ever regularly on topics that i need to learn about and this has been kind of a perfect platform for that right because again you have

arguably, for me, one of the deepest expertises in the space. And so for me, being able to just share the stage with you regularly and hear what you ask, hear what you answer, that has huge value.

And I know that we have a lot of guests, but we still do a lot of episodes and hopefully also in future, still the two of us. And so for me, it's an excuse to learn from you, right? And to talk to you. Yeah. And I'm sure that's going to continue because again, you have many years ahead start compared to me. But what I like is the whole idea where we just go deeper, although it's a short time, it's half an hour.

But oftentimes in other settings, everything is kind of fragmented unless it's a conversation over drinks or a dinner table. It's just you never go deep enough. And I feel like through these conversations that we are having here in The Scoop, we can go to that deeper level and ask. why three times in a row and not stopping at the first time and that's it's so much more fun if you're expert in the space because you don't want to just make things easily digestible and keep it

you know, simple and on the kind of, on the surface level, you actually want to dig deeper. And that's why I think many of our guests also enjoy coming here because they know that, you know, you can kind of...

jump right in and start digging deeper. And that's not a typical thing that is there to offer. And then doing all of this with someone who... you know kind of it's it's a very hard thing to do alone it's i think yeah these kind of things you have to do together with someone so sebastian has a great is a great co-pilot for for this one for sure

I guess that brings me to this question of who did you originally imagine listening to this podcast and like who actually does? I mean, we started off. We didn't think about the podcasts. exactly like it evolved very organically it evolved as something basically evan i are going to have the conversations we want to have on the topics that we are interested in and if people want to listen in on linkedin so be it right that was kind of the the original then we did

a couple, maybe four, five, six. And I told Eva, look, we actually have all this great material. have you ever thought of having a podcast? And the answer was no, but I'm very glad we did because actually we, in terms of audience.

We reach quite a few people on LinkedIn, but we reach way more people now through the podcast, right? Which is great. But then it kind of started crystallizing. The more we had conversation, at least for me, but we made it explicit as well between the two of us, the more it was clear that our audience are policymakers. Are the people who are actually drafting, thinking about potentially in future having to work on CDR. So it's quite niche. It's niche by design. I hear of...

I know of politics. This is actually very rewarding. I had several conversations this year with people in government who told me their whole team listens to the policy scoop. And I was like, amazing. That's exactly what we want. And I also had a lot of conversation with people.

outside of policy who told me, I listened to your podcast. Can you make it a bit more accessible? I'm often a bit lost. So it's a trade-off, right? But I think we're reaching the people that we want to reach and hopefully that will continue. Yeah. And having the conversations you want to have. Exactly. That's key. That's the thing. And that's the important part because we want to have the conversation. We want to have the way we want to have. So we want...

To keep it real, if Sebastian and I talk about something, we're not going to do an intro of, you know... I don't know, carbon removal 101. That's not what we do. That's something for others. But I would not enjoy doing it. I want to dig into this kind of policy tool and that one and discuss what something means. So we're really keeping it real and discussing the things that we actually want to talk about. Yeah, that's how it works best. It's real. It's not fake and performative.

So how do you decide which policy developments are worth covering and which aren't? Like, how do you guys decide that? One of us proposes and the other one reacts. Makes sense? Doesn't make sense? A lot of it happens naturally, right? When there's kind of just developments that feel important.

then we do also sometimes try to find topics around certain speakers. Yes. Because when they're really strong speakers, we do think like, okay, could we make an episode with this person happen? Or what we're increasingly doing is... we're covering a certain geography less like could we make something happen with that geography right who would be a good speaker for that so i think there's different ways that we've done it we're planning ahead much more these days i feel than we than we used to

And actually, one more thing that I wanted to say, because Eva, you keep saying kind of keeping it real. One thing that I'm thinking about a lot these days is not just the type of content, but how content is created, right? And we live in this age where we're flooded with AI. We're flooded with AI content. And I do keep thinking, how do we keep content authentic? And podcasts is actually one of the most authentic forms of content.

that I can think of. Like, I'm sure they're going to exist soon. We're going to have an AI-generated podcast very soon, but I haven't yet listened to one. Okay, great. They're out there already. My argument falls apart, but I feel that a lot of my experience with podcasts is that they're still authentic conversations.

And when you have them live, that's as authentic as it can get right now, right? Like that's kind of people talking to each other live in front of an audience. And if we release that afterwards, that's authenticity. And for me, that's so important because I think...

that people will revert back to authenticity as much as they can, because otherwise we're just flooded with all this generic stuff around us. That's just noise, right? And so I feel that, yeah, at the Scoop, the format works really well because it's... authentic by design you called it keeping it real for me it's kind of authenticity right but yeah yeah great so

Thinking about, you touched on it a bit with a guest. What makes a great CDR policy scoop guest? Because we've definitely had this conversation as we produce the show. I mean, you want me to answer? Go for it. In my view, we've had quite a few. that we are referring to as, you know, this is what others should listen to when they prepare for the sessions. It's just people who keep their answers concise, like they move the topic forward.

But they don't go into kind of a webinar-style 15-minute presentation because that's not what we're after. And it may seem like, oh, but if I only answer a question, you know, in three minutes, I could give a much better answer in 10 minutes. But the problem is that... It's just not a real conversation. And breaking it down, like we will dig deeper anyway. It just makes so much more sense if it stays this conversation. Although if we have a guest, obviously it's mostly we ask questions.

and they elaborate, but we also share some thoughts ourselves. But yeah, it's just this conciseness of this clear thinking, clear answers and moving it kind of forward together. I don't know if some people have a real talent for it. But we've seen some are just amazing. So easy. You don't have to wait to move on because it just works. And I would only add deep expertise.

oh yes like when folks have not just surface level yeah but like the expertise to be able to go a couple levels deeper as we like to yeah and you can tell and so when when you merge the kind of conciseness and openness to dialogue and conversation with technical expertise, then it becomes, I think, a really good guest. Yeah, because they cut to the core because they have their own...

clear thinking already from all the expertise that they have. So has there been a conversation that you've had with anyone that's kind of really shifted or challenged how you think about like a CDR policy or a development that's happening like on the air? I think many times I've had conversations.

where somebody spoke about a certain policy or certain aspect and just framed it in a way that maybe I hadn't thought about. I've also learned things on The Scoop that I hadn't read or seen anywhere else before. And I almost feel, I've said this the other day to someone, that the scoop, it's almost, it gives me privileged access to information sometimes now because we often...

I mean, most are still live, right? But we also do sessions that we release after as a podcast. And I kind of get the information two days before the rest when it appears as a podcast. So I find it is really, it's becoming more and more a scoop, right? It's becoming more and more a platform that shares. information that maybe others haven't heard yet all right so what has been your favorite episode or kind of project that we've done so far easy for me well we obviously remember the

The last ones more freshly than the whole 56 ones. But I think for me, the ones with Lambert Schneider and Danny Cullenworth stand out because these are the people that... Yeah, just having a conversation with them is an amazing experience for me, just as a policy expert, because they both have such deep, deep, deep expertise. So yeah, it's been great.

Yeah, for me, it's got to be the biochar versus deck debate with Martin. That was just great. It was the first time we tried it. It was quite, I think it was courageous of us to do. We faced quite a few headwinds. Quite a few people kind of gave us some. negative opinions in the lead up to that it was incredibly well received and well attended and i just i still today and martin tells me the same if you want to have like a five ten minute summary

of DAC at its best or BioChat at its best, listen to that episode, right? Because Martin and I, we really, the opening statements, I think, that we did there, it's probably the best three-minute pitch for DAC or BioChat you're going to get anywhere. And we did a good job. And Evi, you moderated really well. And yeah, I just, I think it's a great episode. And I think it's been a really interesting format that we've introduced afterwards as well, isn't it? Yes.

Yeah, it's something, it's so different. It's true, in the beginning people were questioning, like, why would you do one versus the other? Because the picture is never, you know, black and white, it's always nuanced. But I think by now, after having done already several showdowns, and I also participated in one as a debater, it's actually really cool to do it because you kind of go head on against someone.

But you elaborate so much more in this one specific narrow area, and it's the type of content that you can't really find unless you start synthesizing long reports. something. And it's funny. It's like, imagine you're in this space for a couple of decades. You maybe want to put your thoughts and your knowledge up there for some testing, right? It's a bit of a gamification of all of this as well. Yeah.

I think it's been a really fun format that kind of did ruffle some few feathers, as you said, when we kind of did it because we were positioning two things against each other. And we all know it's nuanced and you need both. But it was a really engaging format, I think, that people weren't used to. And so I think people have now.

Come to look forward to them, hopefully. Yeah, and more than 1,000 people registering for the event, for the LinkedIn Live. It was also, in the beginning, our question was, we can... do a LinkedIn Live, but how many people will actually show up? We didn't know. Maybe it's three people, but we just decided that we go ahead, we do a few sessions, and we'll find out. In reality, it was a lot more people than I would have thought, actually.

Which shows that sometimes the formal webinars organized by different organizations have... much, much poorer attendance than what we've been able to achieve with this group. It's also humbling because with power comes, you know, different thinking about how to use it in the best possible way. with this kind of audience. Thinking a little bit about the scoop and zooming out a little bit.

How has this overall process kind of changed the way you think about communicating policy kind of more generally? Because this is kind of a unique format and we're doing different, lots of different types of formats. So how has being part of this project changed that for you?

For me, it's taken on a much bigger role than I expected. It started off as kind of this, I'm going to get ever on a LinkedIn Live for 30 minutes every week or two. And it's actually become one of the primary channels that I... not just that i use but that i enjoy and especially that i want to build on

And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years time, this is kind of one of the main things I do because I'm finding it incredibly effective. Like I'm just surprised when I talk to people, I reach out cold to someone in a government I've never spoken to.

like yeah love the scoop know who you are and i'm like wow this is awesome right so i've always been a big fan of these digital channels that's why i use linkedin and and others but yeah the scoop has just it's a really good investment of my time I feel so that's been a very positive surprise just how big it's become yeah that's true it is a very effective way of getting the information message out

I used to be much more prolific in writing my blog. That has become more difficult now once I have a family. I'm still keen on finding that time. It's just, it takes a lot. longer and a lot more effort to concisely frame your thoughts in writing but quickly just you know getting 30 minutes for a scoop to go through certain topics

It's easy. It's already out there. It already has impacts. You know, potentially we have guests from whom we both can even learn from. It brings in a lot of knowledge that I wouldn't otherwise. gets right because look at our guest list it's just uh it's so impressive and that's the other thing also as a teaser for those listening in the type of guests we're getting is getting more and more impressive yeah

And we already have a few lined up. And our objective is ultimately to get as many policymakers as possible on the scoop. And I know that in some cases we've faced that they're just restrictions. Some can't. They're not allowed to come on the scoop. I'm confident that we're going to get more and more. And I think that's going to enrich it a lot for our audience. So yeah, one thing to look forward to for 2026. I wonder if that will also change for...

those policymakers as well, if they're seeing that this is a medium in which more and more people are engaging with, and whether that will encourage them to perhaps potentially revise their positions on these things. That's kind of my hope anyways. Yeah.

So thinking a little bit, just wanting to wrap this up a little bit, because we want to keep it in time, as we always do. What is something you're hoping to achieve this coming year with the CDR policy? I know we touched a little bit on it, but kind of the bigger goals in the next year ahead.

Keep it going, right? Keep our consistency. We have great pipeline of upcoming episodes already. And we have now done also the Outlook for 2026. So many developments that we are expecting to see that we can do. episodes on and obviously yeah we'll we will be getting more and more policymakers to to come on this show and kind of dig deeper into what they are planning and doing i would add that we are

We want to experiment with more things, right? Like we launched a YouTube channel and we're really excited to see the development of that YouTube channel and to populate it with content that is specific to that channel as well. We want to share more.

short snippets of these conversations for people on social media. We have some other ideas that I can't reveal or things that we want to try next year. And so I think there, yeah, the sky's the limit when it comes to the policy scoop. And actually one thing I want to make sure I do. before this wraps up is a big thank you to all the people that you know that i mean you heard from helen today and she honestly without helen

nothing would happen on time. We wouldn't have done 56 episodes. The only reason that Evan and I can't do this the way we do is because of Helen. So thank you, Helen. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you for trusting me with this project. Of course.

And then there's also three more people that you should know about. If you like the work we do on LinkedIn, there's Polar, who is doing an amazing job in keeping our social media going and active. Then we've got, of course, Ben, who is actually the producer behind.

quite a few podcasts you're probably listening to the audio producer and he's also the reason that we sound so good even when babies are crying in the background which happens regularly for every year and then finally we also have Carlotta our latest recruit

is our video producer who is helping us with all the beautiful content you see on YouTube and beyond. So yeah, all of those also big thank you because yeah, it takes a village. In this case, it's not just me and Eva. It's actually six people who are working every week to make this happen. Well, thank you, Sebastian and Ebe, for turning the microphones around and letting me be here to ask you the questions in front of the camera and sharing all this with everyone.

I think it's really important what we're doing. And I'm really excited for this kind of year ahead of what CDR is going to happen, what's going to happen, all the developments. So thank you so much for having me. Thanks. Thank you. I'm sure we're going to do this again. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Bye. you