Ep 96: The Road to Hope: Keaton Douglas on Faith-Driven Addiction Recovery

Joining us today is Keaton Douglas , the Executive Director of the I Thirst Initiative and a trailblazer in the field of addiction and recovery . Keaton uniquely bridges Catholic spirituality with recovery , providing a holistic approach to healing .

As the creator of the I Thirst Spiritual Companionship Training , she has developed a faith-based formation program that equips lay leaders and clergy to address the spiritual dimensions of addiction . Her work , academically certified by Seton Hall University , has profound international reach , with over 400 certified companions offering spiritual support and recovery resources .

Keaton's expertise as a consultant , educator and sought-after speaker continues to inspire and empower communities to support those affected by addiction . Thank you so much for being here today , keaton . I'm so excited to have you here , christy thank you for having me .

I really appreciate the work that you are doing in not just helping those that need that recovery , but empowering just the lay leaders and clergy in helping so the church can help 100% .

I couldn't figure out how this might have happened to me . I thought I had done everything correctly , in the right order and whatnot . And this came out of the blue and I was deeply angry , ashamed , ashamed that I couldn't hold my marriage together .

I was deeply embarrassed that I didn't even know that it had been falling apart , you know , and that kept me very , very angry for a long time , almost a decade . And then , after that , in what can only be described as a divine intervention , I was graced with a moment of forgiveness , and in that moment of forgiveness , my life changed .

I dropped the resentment that had lived like a poisonous snake within me for all those years , and the more that I was resentful , year after year , it didn't get any better , it got worse , and I just became less of who God intended me to be .

So , after this beautiful moment of forgiveness that changed my life , I was drawn back to our Catholic faith , the faith of my childhood , but this time I was drawn to it in a much more profound way . I really wanted to know my faith . I really wanted a relationship with Jesus and I believe it was Our Lady who really came in contact with me .

I have a very deep Marian spirituality , a very deep Marian devotion . I believe it was she that led me to the foot of the cross with Her . You know it gets me emotional even talking about it . It was so grace-filled opportunity so I wound up talking about my spiritual healing .

You see , in my career , prior to this work that I do now , I was an entertainer . I was a singer . I got to sing all over the world . I've sung in Las Vegas .

I've sung for some pretty major events like presidential inaugural balls and things of that nature , and very privileged and blessed to sing with some of the greatest musicians in the world for some pretty major events like presidential inaugural balls and things of that nature , and very privileged and blessed to sing with some of the greatest musicians in the world .

I had been doing that for quite a while , but now that I had this profound divine intervention , I was called back to the faith and called back to share my healing . I was getting opportunities to speak in front of lots of people because I was at ease in front of an audience . Then I realized , wait a minute , I'm only telling my story .

People would say to me we really enjoyed that . Can you come back next week and talk about the themes of forgiveness in St Paul ? And I'd be like no , I only have my story , I don't have anything else . So it caused me to dive more deeply into this relationship with my Lord , my God and his mom .

I went to pursue my graduate degree in theology at Seton Hall University while I was still performing and whatnot , and I got asked to speak . I met a seminarian there and I got asked to speak at a retreat for women at a retreat house in New Jersey , at a retreat for women at a retreat house in New Jersey . And they were there because they were on .

They were at a treatment facility and they were being treated mostly for heroin addiction and alcoholism and they were there for a spirituality retreat . And I was asked to speak in front of them . And I remember being terrified , christy , I had sung in front of thousands of people , but I was terrified .

The reason was because I thought I would be rejected by them because I had never smoked marijuana once in my life and I couldn't see what they would find in me . The gentleman that was running the retreat , who later became one of my mentors , said to me do you not think there's anything they can learn from you ?

I thought , oh , I guess they can learn something from me . And then he said do you not think there's anything you can learn from them ? And I was mind blown . And that was the day that changed my life , because I went in and spoke to these women . I told them my story , my spiritual healing after an unexpected divorce .

I told them my story , my spiritual healing after an unexpected divorce , and when I spoke and I laughed , they laughed , and when I cried , they cried . It taught me a huge lesson and that was we are all wounded , we are mutually wounded , we are children of one another . And what they wanted to hear from me , they wanted to learn spiritual healing .

We all thirsted for that spiritual healing . We all thirsted to be heard , to be seen , to be loved unconditionally . After I left , I felt like I had a euphoria . I spoke to my parish priest about the next day . He said Keaton , I think you've had a calling . I said a calling , yeah , I think this is what you're called to do .

And I said , oh , father , I'm in theology school , of course I knew everything . And I said people like Isaiah a calling , not me , I'm just a singer , I'm in New Jersey . He said , no , keaton , everybody gets called but not everybody listens . That was profound . So I wound up becoming a regular part of that recovery ministry .

When the folks that led it retired or went on sabbatical , I was leading it . As I got more involved , I started working in treatment facilities , delivering non-denominational spirituality sessions to folks that were going over really well .

Then I started to ask the question Christy , if we really believe it's heart , the disease of addiction is a spiritual disease , then what are we as church capital C doing systemically to deal with ? And the answer was , at that point , not much . There were individual ministries that were happening .

Some dioceses were more proactive than others , but the majority of them had no idea where to begin , and so because of that , I became part .

This ministry was affiliated with the Missionary Servants of the Most Holy Trinity , that's a community priests and brothers who've been working in the field of addiction for a real long time , over 100 years priests and brothers who've been working in the field of addiction for a real long time , over 100 years they said to me , keith , write something .

And so I wrote a curriculum , which is the I Thirst Spiritual Companionship curriculum , as a way of addressing this across the board , systemically giving the church an appropriate response to the crisis of addiction , all addictions , not only substance use disorders but pornography and gambling , a systemic way of really reacting to those loving them and bringing them hope

and healing that they deserve .

You know like sometimes we let those resentments build up and they not only like you were saying , it's like a poisonous snake and it keeps us from living a life that we're meant to live , or like joy and all of those things , but it keeps us from God too .

It's beautiful how , when you forgave and let go of that resentment , all of a sudden this new door opened for you . I love the way that you were so obedient and just kind of like stepped in , stepped through those doors , even with reservations , like we all do . Like God , are you sure ? Like me , are you sure ?

Right , but it sounds like you had a wonderful spiritual director that helped guide you through all of that . And the other thing is , sometimes we think I'm not equipped , like you said , with those women , how are they going to take me if I haven't even had this issue or haven't even smoked marijuana or done any of these things ?

How are they going to take me seriously ? But very evidently , like you were saying , I loved it . When you laughed , they laughed . When you cried , they cried . There's just this authenticity when we are real and we share God's heart with people . It doesn't matter if we have exactly the same circumstances .

We're just in that and loving each other and feeling empathy and that sadness and joy through the Spirit of God . So I think that that is so beautiful .

When I was speaking to those women , not only did as a Christian , I saw the face of Christ in them , but surprisingly , I saw my face of Christ in them , but surprisingly , I saw my face , even though that which had broken me was adultery and theirs was addiction .

We were bound together because we were children of God , seeking that healing , that love , that mercy , and that's when I realized this is not about those people . We are all those people . We are all broken children of God needing to walk together along the journey of transformation .

The other thing that you said which I completely agree with and I didn't know this , like when I was first getting sober and in my recovery and even for years or decades afterwards , I didn't really realize that trying to fill ourselves up with things , especially substances , that we are actually seeking that indwelling of God and we're trying to use this fake

substitute and that's where it gets us into trouble , because when we then fill ourselves with God , one of my previous guests said she had a food addiction and she said when she emptied herself of the foods that were strongholds on her , it opened her up and she wanted more of God , like she wanted more of him , and I know that was very clear in my story and

I'm sure that's very evident in the people you work with as well .

You know it's always going to fail . That's a response to assuage of pain . We sometimes fill ourselves with these other things . We take a detour . Father Richard Rohr talks about taking a detour and hopefully our addictions are detours , because the detour means that we ultimately will get to our end destination .

We've just kind of gone around the bend a little bit differently , so that's what I'm always prayerful for .

I think for a long time that we as church have acted like the priest and the Levite walking past . You know , we didn't really know what to do . It would be unholy in the cultural context of that parable to touch somebody that was bloody . But the story is being told to us by Jesus with the greater calling . He's saying who is this man's neighbor ?

The answer comes back the one who shows him mercy , the Samaritan . We're going where we haven't been before

. That requires that we become empowered through education to understand the disease of addiction mind , body and spirit . When you look at the disease of addiction , the hallmarks of the spirit . When you look at the disease of addiction , the hallmarks of the disease , the isolation , the despair , part of the spiritual condition , requires a spiritual remedy .

It's a spiritual remedy , christy , that our clinical brothers and sisters who do well with the psychology behind it , the physiology . All of those need to be remediated . But who is really tending to the soul ? All of our faith communities .

In fact , I think that our faith communities , the lack of their understanding , the lack of their participation , has really been a big problem . It's been a missing link .

Our goal , led by the Catholic Church , is really to educate all faith communities about what they can do to provide the spiritual healing and understanding of this disease in their parishes and beyond .

And when I say beyond , we have people that are trained , that work in re-entry programs for citizens returning from being incarcerated , in prison ministries , in treatment facilities , correctional facilities of all sorts People doing God's work because they're trained and understanding what to do .

I think the Catholic Church has a beautiful role in leading that , becoming empowered and sharing the spiritual healing that we have using . And this is the thing that I think a lot of times faith communities are well-intended but they get it a little bit wrong , and that is they want to do something .

They want to do an addiction ministry , so they'll bring in a secular group to come in and to share , and that's very important and wonderful , but it's not enough . We want people lay leaders , clergy to understand through our sacred texts . What is the Lord telling us about this ? The unnatural attachments that we all have .

Right , that's how we talk about addictions as unnatural attachments . We become so attached to something . When I teach , I put my hand in front of my face . When you have something in front of your face , you become myopic .

In your view , you cannot develop a relationship with God , you cannot develop a relationship with others and you can't develop a relationship even with yourself .

Right , because we are like this , we want people , and that , of course , is the very cross itself , isn't it Our relationship with God , the two great commandments to love our God , to love our neighbors as ourselves , the very cross itself ?

We want our Catholic church to lead the way , to become empowered , to be the resource that it can be in providing the spiritual healing and consolation everybody needs , no matter what they're going through .

It was really the only option , other than when I did outpatient treatment at a medical facility which didn't really pan out very well really pan out very well but I went to Alcoholics Anonymous for a couple of years .

It's rooted in Christianity , but there's a lot of things that are said that it was troublesome to my senses , if you will , or my soul , even though I was just on my journey back to faith myself .

But one of the things that I know other people that I speak with , either my clients or just other people in recovery have a problem with Alcoholics Anonymous is that they'll say you can make anything your higher power , you can make that door , your higher power , this meeting , your higher power and so many people make AA their church , their religion , and then

they keep people there not everyone , but some of the meetings that I went to they would try to keep us there out of fear , like if you stop going , you're just gonna go back out drinking . And so what I appreciate most about your initiative is that it's rooted in faith , it's rooted in God , it's not rooted in fear . Not that it started out that way .

It was very pure the way that it was initiated . It's just how it's evolved over the years . And so do you think that ? Well , let me ask you this Is your initiative similar to AA ? Is it a supplement to AA ? Is it a substitute for any of those 12-step programs ?

The Healing Initiative , recovery , spirituality 12 Steps , 12 steps . So we are very much in concert . I am a student of the 12 steps as they are rooted in sacred scripture .

I've written about them as they are rooted in sacred scripture , and the beauty of the 12 steps , as they were intended , was that they were taken from three major sections of sacred scripture , what we call pericope of sacred scripture .

Matthew's Sermon on the Mount , which really teaches us how to be Christians , how to love one another , how to love our God and how to love ourselves right . Everything we need to know about how to live a lifestyle conformed in Christ is in those three chapters . The next chapter is 1 Corinthians , 13, . The love . Love is patient , love is kind .

You hear it at so many weddings , right , and it is because it talks about love as being the greatest theological virtue , above all others , and it teaches us about the multifaceted aspects of Christian love . And so that was very important to the founders Christian love , and so that was very important to the founders .

The third is the letter of St James , which is where we get faith without works is dead , and bridle your tongue . It tells us that the tongue can be very difficult . Bridle your tongue as if a horse , meaning don't be using your mouth to say nasty things to folks . Faith without works is dead means we have to cooperate with God .

A lot of people think , well , if I just pray my way out of it , I'll get there and really that's lovely . But it doesn't take into consideration the interior work . If we're really doing the steps correctly , it is emptying us . It is a form of self-kenosis .

The climate for many of the fellowship meetings is very different and I always tell people that I work with because I believe in the fellowship programs and I believe that sponsorship is important . The foundational emphasis of what I do is to help an individual develop an intimacy of their understanding and all of that . You know God is a doorknob .

I know it is totally off-putting . I have also witnessed people that have no faith background , that have never been exposed to even what spirituality is . Find God's love in other people .

In fact , father Thomas Keating , in his book Divine Therapy and Addiction , says we can help people find God in all sorts of things , of course I'm paraphrasing In art , in nature , in the sciences and in the place we least expect to find it in each other . Sometimes , being in that group , people find God .

They don't know , they don't expect what that is , but they find love . God is love . So I believe that if they persevere in a loving environment , in community , with people who actually understand the scriptural basis of 12-step program , I do believe that God will do the Holy Spirit's going to do a lot of that work and lead that person to the Lord .

But I think that our faith communities have a big role to play in welcoming people and in saying you know . Again , getting back to dispelling the myth of the other Christy . I think this is the addiction ministries .

Many of them , I think a lot of them , fail because people don't want to come out and say this is my issue or this is the issue of my loved one . But I really do feel that we need to change the prism through which we view these ministries and say we are all responsible for our brothers and sisters , so we all need to come out .

I have a holy hour that we hold and I encourage my participants to have these holy hours for those that have lost their lives , for those that are celebrating their recovery , for addiction and recovery . I try to get as many people from the parish to come out and pray in community , even if they don't have that firsthand experience .

This is something that involves all of us , which I think is important . Getting back to your pertinent question that involves all of us , which I think is important .

Getting back to your pertinent question , I believe that our work works in connection with and collaboration with the 12-step fellowships and I think that there are good meetings and I think that there are meetings that aren't so great , and I think that there are people and sponsors that truly understand this and can be life-changing for people and others that may not

be . So . A person needs to be discerning . We work in collaboration with . I think the 12 steps based in scripture are a very important part of the work .

And then I look at the Twelve Steps and I actually did a podcast on it last week or a couple of weeks ago about like the Twelve Steps can help anybody you don't have to be an alcoholic and how Catholic they actually are . We admit that God is powerful . Right , we can't do it , but he can and we need to make those amends and ask for forgiveness .

We need to go to reconciliation and all of those things . I know there are so many beautiful truths in those 12 steps but , like you said , when humans get involved , it can lead people into poor direction . I did not have the greatest experience . My sponsor left and she was not very pro-Catholic . But I also know other people that have had wonderful experiences .

They've been involved for 30 plus years and they've helped many people by being sponsors as well . Do you know what's ?

This is where Bill and Bob and the early AA-ers before they were even called AA-ers would go and they would participate . Except it had a highly evangelistic tone . It was very much affiliated with this Lutheran pastor . It was in Akron , ohio , and folks were coming from Cleveland . They were taking a car there .

At the same time , in 1939 , the big book was published the first time in April 1939 . The group was getting bigger and bigger . The group from Cleveland was driving to Akron and they were Catholics and the Bishop of Cleveland in 1939 said listen , if you continue to go to those Oxford meetings , we're going to excommunicate you .

Led by a fellow by the name of Clarence Snyder who was part of the Cleveland group , the big book had already been published . They took the big book and they went into the Oxford meeting and they said tomorrow we will have the first meeting . And what are you going to call it ? They held up the book and said we're going to call it Alcoholics Anonymous .

The first meeting was held in 1939 . Because of the Catholic church that they hadn't broken off from the Oxford group . Who knows what direction it might have gone , but it was the Bishop of Cleveland , threatening excommunication to the Catholics that founded the first meeting on May 11th 1939 . The actual founders weren't even at the first meeting under that name .

So pretty interesting . We've had a lot to do with the 12-step program and the founding of AA . So pretty interesting . We've had a lot to do with the 12-step program and the founding of AA .

Some of the people are recovery allies , some of them are in recovery for a long period of time , some of them have a loved one in recovery , some of them have lost loved ones .

But it really is about working with our pastors to be able to provide that spiritual consolation and recovery resource information that is so needed in every church and beyond , in every Catholic school , etc . That's what we're doing . Anyone is welcome to participate . Oh , that's great .

Would it be a ministry of that parish ? What does that ?

For example , on September 16th I'm going to begin teaching diocese 50 people from Diocese of Columbus , ohio , at the behest of Bishop Fernandez , who got a copy of my book . I just wrote a book called the Road to Hope Responding to the Crisis , with Lindsay Schlegel , my co-author , who's marvelous .

He got a copy of my book and he and another wonderful gal that was trying to get everybody involved in the program decided . Now this entire diocese is sending 50 people who will be trained and will go back into their parishes to work with their pastors to develop multifaceted recovery ministries that looked different in every parish , based on the need .

Perhaps some will use it in prison ministry , some will do one-on-one . It's not counseling but in a pass lit of the ear , it's really listening to somebody and guiding them , helping them listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit walking with them .

Pope Francis talks about it all the time culture of encounter that we need , that presence that we need in everything that we do , and it's being there to hear somebody and to guide them so people get involved that way somebody , and to guide them so people get involved that way .

I am in collaboration not only with Seton Hall University but also with Catholic Extension , which helps us reach out to poorer dioceses throughout the nation . So we have trained people from Pago Pago in American Samoa , where we're working with the indigenous folks there . We're in 46 states . We work with dioceses .

We're in the Diocese of Brownsville , texas , and Rapid City , south Dakota , and Fresno , california , tucson , arizona , you name it . We're there .

And we're also in Canada , costa Rica , we're in Mexico , we're in South Africa , we're in Nigeria and we are negotiating now with the Archdiocese of Nairobi , kenya , because this is a problem that is around the world , right yeah , particularly alcoholism , with so many indigenous peoples . So it's very , very important that we are seeking them out .

Folks , if they're interested in our program , we have another class that's about to be launched in October that I'd be happy to welcome anybody to if they are interested in becoming this person in their parish and beyond , or just for their own personal edification , to find out if they're dealing with someone in their family who's suffering and they want to know a

little bit more about the disease beyond the prism of their own pain . We have a course coming up and I'd be happy to share that information with everybody as well . You know how to join that , and they can do that by visiting our website , christy , which is wwwithirstinitiativeorg wwwthirstinitiativeorg .

Or they can go right to the Seton Hall website , which is setonhalluniversityedu . If they're interested . That's the Continuing Ed and Professional Studies , and they're welcome to contact me directly through the website . I'll come back to you with information . I'd love to have a conversation with people and welcome them to it .

October , is herself from the Seattle area , so we're getting more folks from up in that area , not so much Oregon , but I've got Idaho , I've got South Dakota , so we're reaching our Northwest , which we're excited about .

Cardinal O'Malley , who is now retiring , was very adamant that we should be addressing the needs of those suffering . He's had a great vision about it and so he developed the Arch Diocesan Opioid Task Force , the first one in the nation , and they realized that they needed resources .

They needed to find out what the church could offer as opposed to bringing the secular in . They were really interested in that , but didn't really know how to weave together scripture , the spirituality our Catholic spirituality and addiction recovery , which is what I had done . So we began working together in 2020 .

We started our first classes online right in the middle of the pandemic , right at the beginning of the pandemic , and this fall I will be teaching our 23rd class . It's marvelous how people are coming on board . It's exciting to see the work that they're doing respectively in their areas . It goes so much further , beyond anything that I imagined .

So you said that it can be kind of like a supplement to Alcoholics Anonymous and that you're like the sessions or the fellowship looks a little bit different than Alcoholics Anonymous . What happens in those sessions ? Is it a fellowship type thing or one-on-one mentorship ? How exactly does this ?

I-thirst spiritual companions Don't have 12-step sessions , but we support and promote people's involvement in them and we teach our I Thirst spiritual companions about the spiritual basis of 12 steps . Because if you were to refer someone who comes to see you in your parish , I want you to understand why you're referring them .

What that individual or that team in that parish might do with their pastor could be different than what somebody's doing in another side of the country . We teach them how to do this recovery Bible study . We teach them how to do , you know , even changing things . So simply to start the conversation in our parishes . Prayers of the faithful .

This is Recovery Awareness Month , as I'm sure you know . If every parish can you imagine this started saying in the prayers of the faithful we pray for those who have suffered from the disease of addiction and their families that they may feel the healing power of Christ .

Lord , hear our prayer , just so people begin to hear those words , to begin to feel accepted , heard and seen . Some people who are trained are going to do one-on-one ministries . We train people in motivational interviewing to be kind of like the love child between a spiritual director and a recovery coach .

So you're not really a spiritual director , you're a spiritual companion . You don't go through those years and years and years of training , but you understand the spirituality of what you're discussing . You understand mind , body , spirit and local resources .

If somebody comes to you , they make an appointment at your church , under the stewardship of your pastor , of course , and they say I want to talk to you about my son . You can have a conversation with them , you can help them . Certain people are putting together friends and family groups . Certain people are creating re-entry programs .

The 12-step program is involved because we want people to understand its scriptural basis and when they're referring somebody , we do have weekly online sessions called the Hope Zone , which are available every Thursday from 5 to 6 . I have one today , 5 to 6 pm , eastern Time , that folks can sign on and it is a hope zone .

It's people from all over the world that come and a person co-host will share a quote from Sacred Scripture or from one of the 12-step fellowships about their journey of transformation . What was that journey of transformation like for them ? They talk about it through the prism of this quote .

Then they open it up and we have these most wonderful discussions and they're inspiring and beautiful so that it's a way that our folks keep in touch on a weekly basis . So it's a big network .

It's a big network of people globally now that are doing this work , that are caring for our brothers and sisters and truly understanding the interface of our Catholic spirituality and addiction and recovery , and truly understanding the interface of our Catholic spirituality and addiction and recovery .

Or I do want to still go to AA , but I need something more because it is getting . There's too much like anti-Catholic or occult or whatever it is that they're dealing with . What can I do to kind of supplement that or build up my faith and my recovery at the same time ?

It truly is the hope song . That's why we call it that way . So , yeah , it's a marvelous way for people to get involved with us .

If you still want to pay it forward , because that's really ingrained in us in AA , like share it with others I didn't feel like I could share it with others for so long because I didn't go to AA anymore . And here is this beautiful initiative trains and equips people to be that light to others , be that hope to others .

The blessing , the miracle that is your life , christy , that is the life of so many of your listeners , I always say somebody that has recovered from the abyss of addiction is no less a miracle to me than Moses parting the Red Sea . It's a miracle you are chosen , you are there and able to give compassionate care to people .

It's a beautiful way of paying it forward . It's a very Christian thing to do . It is better to give than to receive . That's what we're thinking . Anybody can join us because we all need to be part of the solution . We are mutually wounded , we are mutually broken and it is together Christ's presence that we can and will be healed . His mother says so .

I take everything I have from our blessed mother . She leads this program . If any of your listeners have a deep Marian devotion , this is definitely a place to join us and become part of this global movement .

So a global impact on the church and I'm proud to say I'm a friend of Scott Wieman's and that we're doing a couple of things , that we're working together . It's nice to be in the Catholic space with somebody as bright as Scott and as intuitive and forward thinking .

So , yes , a lot of our members are also in Catholic in Recovery and we work very harmoniously together . I'm very proud of the affiliation and happy to support him in any way possible .

Well , thank you so much , keaton . I really appreciate your time and the work that you do . God bless you . I'm going to be praying for you , thank you and I'm praying for all your listeners too .

I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend , who might also get value from it as well , and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom .

Follow me on Instagram at thecathsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic Sobriety Coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time , and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you . You are not alone .