Ep 86: Identity and Healing: A Catholic Approach to Freedom with guest Steve Pokorny

I'm a wife , mom and a joy-filled Catholic , and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and I am so glad you're here . What keeps you from living fully present and fully alive ? Do you distract yourself , numb out or give in to temptations that will only provide temporary relief ? Freedom is possible , friend .

You can live the fulfilled life that God has destined for you and my guests . Today and I are going to provide tips on how to take the first step of breaking free of vices that no longer serve you . Today , my guest is Steve Picorni .

He is the founder of Freedom Coaching , a one-to-one mentoring system designed to break permanently , in both men and women , the attraction to pornography and unchaste behavior .

Steve holds an MA in Theology and a specialization in Catechesis from Franciscan University of Steubenville , as well as an MTS from the John Paul II Institute for Marriage and Family Studies in Washington DC .

Steve is a certified life coach from the Life Coach Training Institute , author of Redeemed Vision Setting the Blind Free from the Pornified Culture and Redeeming Our Vision on Form . Steve also is internationally known as a speaker , speaking with a wide variety of audiences on many topics . He's married and lives with his family in San Antonio , texas .

I don't know why that was so hard for me to say Welcome , steve . It's a blessing to have you here with us today .

And for myself , my drug of choice was pornography , stemming from a wound from where my father was out of the picture from the time I was five , from a failed suicide attempt . He was in a nursing home and growing up without a father . That wound does not just go away and it has to either be healed or it will fester .

And I remember growing up thinking , you know , I should just kill myself , like father , like son . My father would eventually pass on when I was 17 , to brain and lung cancer . And in the middle of that I was exposed to pornography , right before the pornographic revolution of the internet , and attracted interested .

Right , there's something good , holy , wholesome in human sexuality designed by God . But there was a dearth of education , especially sending to my own home . The only real conversation I had about human sexuality was with my mom . The only conversation about human sexuality with my mom was when I was , I think , in fourth grade .

We were writing dirty Mad Libs and my mom said what do you know about sex ? And I said a lot and that was it . That was our conversation , right ? Thanks , moms . My mom , I try to do the best she can as a single mom two boys that really didn't have the education and again in a vast range , I call this the issue of pornography .

It's the 572,000 pound elephant in the room , christy , that we're not talking about . We still aren't and we definitely weren't . Growing up .

From the time I was in sixth or beginning in sixth grade , getting exposed from just hardcore images in a bag that was on the street to a neighborhood classmate where his own parents had hardcore videos in their bedroom , the internet would hit and this would become a compulsion .

Moving on and I'm getting very big sweeping ideas on this and then moving even to seminary .

This would go on in my background and again , this is the late 90s and early 2000s very poor human sexuality formation and all the way into going to one rough year of teaching high school theology until I got to Francis University where God , the Father , would introduce himself to me in a way that I needed to hear his voice and him sharing with me that I'm

his beloved son , knowing that identity , knowing that I'm good , knowing that I can come to him with my wounds and open this up and be accepted and being loved there . And finally , that first real experience of knowing the Father's love but then moving from there .

This first experience , this tangible experience of a movement from lusting and using my sisters to want to love , to serve them , to lay down my life there , to reconcile the wounds that I've caused by the way in which I've treated women in dating relationships or just walking around the street , in the way I've failed to see them as persons .

And this is not just neat and tidy . There were some years of things I had to go and work through my wounds of abandonment , issues of rejection , issues of needing to do some deep trauma work , things that weren't discovered , weren't discussed . But I can say honestly I'm a man who would rather die than lust .

Lust is to paraphrase CS Lewis lust is a weak , whimpering , whispering thing compared to the desire that arises when lust has been killed . And so it's an honor to share a bit of this story and the work that we do at Freedom .

And I think from our wound come those lies that we start to come to believe about ourselves . You hit on identity kind of wrestling with that , not really knowing exactly who we are or whose we are . And when we finally have that encounter with God the Father , he can just really heal that woundedness .

And it's not an instantaneous thing , right , it takes time , it takes work , it takes learning how to trust , learning that a lot of times , at least for me , it was like I just didn't feel worthy . I didn't feel like God was that interested in me .

I didn't think that what I was doing like he cared much about it , because it didn't seem like he was really present . But then I realized I was projecting how my father wasn't around very often onto God the Father , and once I realized he was always with me , it changed everything .

I've tried everything , I don't know what to do , and we've served in populations from eight to 83 . I've done those personally and I don't want the client who's like I'm here just because my girlfriend said I should go , or my mom's making me do this , I'm not interested .

We are interested because there's a team of 11 of us who are doing the work and we're expanding , who are saying you know , this thing is destroying my life , I don't know what to do . I'm willing to do what it takes to be free . That's what freedom coaching is in the work we're doing . Do what it takes to be free , that's what freedom coaching

is in the work we're doing . So one of the principles to work to the first question you asked on this one , one of the principles and tagline I would say that we use is nothing is wasted , everything is redeemable .

If we were the only one , god , the Father , would send Jesus Christ to die for us and we believe in a principle would send Jesus Christ to die for us .

And we believe in a principle , another principle of that of day zero , that in this process that God has come to heal , come to save and heal the lost , regardless of what has happened in our past , he is here , jesus Christ has come to to heal the ins and outs of that and we were never meant to we we sometimes from our Protestant or evangelical brothers and

sisters . Actually , it happened to me this morning . I got caught in a conversation it was 645 in the morning . I was buying oats for my chickens and and she's and we were talking about the show the Chosen and I talked about what do you like about it , what do you don't like about it , or what do you like , what's your favorite episode ?

And she mentioned that she goes to a community Bible church here in San Antonio and she asked me what church do I go to ? I said I'm Catholic and I go to a Byzantine Catholic church and she said , oh , that's cool , you know it's about a relationship , not a religion .

And as I'm walking away and it was just early and I kind of wanted to go , and so if I get another chance I'll re-engage the conversation . She's local , but as I'm walking out of the store I'm thinking , no , it's not just a relationship , it's also a religion , it's both . And I think where the mistake that many of us Catholics get to right ?

We've been taught the rules . We've been taught the rules . We've been taught our catechism to a degree . Sometimes we're not . We come at christmas and easter , maybe , but maybe we've been taught these things and we forget that the root .

And when jesus and we take that show , the chosen , we see that , like jesus was with for three years , walking with them , the rules would come later . He didn't come to abolish or obliterate any of what came in the Old Testament . Not a jot or a tittle will be wiped away . No , he came to fulfill that .

But the way he's doing this is through genuine relationship . Right , so do we know Jesus Christ ? So that's one of the elements that we don't start with this .

As in freedom coaching , we accept a client , male or female , wherever they're coming from , because a lot of our clients are Catholic , a vast majority of them , let's say 95% of them and they know the rules . I've been doing all these things .

I've been doing a confession every week , confessing the same thing over and over , like a woman who's had an abortion , who , week after week , goes to confession here . She's forgiven but can't forgive herself . Right , these are guys and women who are going to confession , I hear , and our Father and Hail Mary . God bless you , father .

Right , we're dealing with chemical attachment . We need a little more than that . And so they know the rules . They're trying to be good Catholics , going to confession , receiving the Eucharist , all these things , but don't know how to get free .

And somewhere along the line they've missed the message that it is a romance , that their erotic desires , the lungs that we have .

Right , the attraction of man for woman and woman for man is not an evil , it's not something that we're supposed to stare at the sidewalk the rest of our life , but we're called to really see I'm called to really see , christy , the beauty of who you are . Yes , you're married and you have children .

I still am able to see the beauty of who you are yes , you're married and you have children . I still am able to see the beauty of here , not to objectify , not to possess , but to open this up . And in seeing you , you're an image as a beloved daughter of God . You're an image of the beautiful creation of God and also the uncreated beauty , who in God ?

God is neither male nor female , but he's both . He's masculine and feminine and in here , in the embodied nature of who we are , as male and female . And we've gotten this twisted and it is very difficult . And also especially why , where we hit on , where a lot of Catholics find a disconnect the issue of pornography and unchaste behavior .

Because we are sexual beings , understood appropriately , we're male or seen it in everything that we do . That's a sexual term , right , and if it is lived out inappropriately or , god forbid , something's happened to us , maybe through a case of rape or or incest or or abuse , and and pornography itself is an abuse we get the guilt , the shame and self-hatred .

I call those the three-headed hydra in the work we're doing right . And then , when what our faith really is is relationship with somebody who loves us beyond everything and loves us for everything that we are , even our brokenness , thumping in us because of what we call the force field of the guilt , the shame , the self-hatred , I don't buy it .

Yeah , but and that's the language we use right off the bat with clients be where you are , feel what you're feeling , right .

If this isn't a love affair for you , that's okay , but we , freedom Coaching , are here to show you another way to drop that force field so that that good news can come in that will drive them into living an authentically sacramental life , which isn't a Catholic virtue and what the Catholic state is meant to be .

Like you were saying , it is all of those things incorporated and used and made to be our spiritual gifts , getting strengthened , our spiritual gifts , helping us have those fruits of joy and peacefulness and self-control , and all of those things .

And when we're speaking to other Christians , especially other Catholics , then they get it and they understand it , even if they're kind of on the outskirt of their faith . Because we do distract the going to pornography , going to alcohol or whatever it is . It distracts us from hearing God's voice .

It keeps us , like you were saying , in guilt and shame and self-hatred . So we keep ourselves distant from God because

we're not worthy . I didn't go to church for a really long time because I thought they're not going to want me there , like they don't know what I've done . God knows what I had done and I promise you he does not want to want me there .

They don't know what I've done , god knows what I had done and I promise you he does not want me in his church , but that was the place I needed to be the most .

That was where I was going to get the healing that I needed , and so I love that you incorporate the Catholic faith , reach out to all Christians , because we all have these wonderful spiritual gifts that God has given us that just help strengthen us and help us really fight the vice , so we can root out the vice and then replace it with virtue , because that's

really what is going to give us the lasting change . You can't just stop doing the thing and not do anything else . I always tell people once you stop drinking , that's great , but there's still a lot of work to do . There's still a lot of wounds that need to be healed . There's a lot of things that need to be addressed .

You need to learn to feel your feelings again . You need to learn to have your feelings again . You need to learn to have relationships in a healthy way , and I also love that .

You said like nothing is wasted and everything is redeemable , and you know I say that too because I'm like God uses everything Like he used your wounds , he used your hurts , he used your journey to prompt you to create this incredible project that you have and the coaching and helping so many people , and he used my hurt and what I went through so that I can

help others find freedom , hopefully faster than I was able to .

I will learn your full story because I the message you have is important here .

But from the little and we do have some clients who have gone to AA , who come into work here and we find it's just a different drug All of the compulsion and again we use that term compulsion rather than addiction in the work we're doing , because the idea of addiction for a lot of people is once hooked , always hooked , and the compulsion idea is serious ,

it's an attachment , it needs to be healed , but it can be healed . That it's serious , it's an attachment , it needs to be healed , but it can be healed . That's an encouraging thought . And but in this process we none of us are made to do this on our own . We were never meant to .

We make it on our own and this is why pornography is so devastating , because it isolates , it's designed to isolate light . I imagine a person who's a quote-unquote closet drinker , whether they literally are in a closet drinking or they're really hiding this really well .

I did live with someone and I had no idea that he was an alcoholic until he brought it up and then , thinking through after , he said that I'm sitting back next to him and I'm like that's why I was so ticked off all the time . He's got this issue going on here and he placated it well and I thought maybe I'm just a jerk .

I'm a jerk , don't get me wrong on that , and you can ask my wife about that , but the witness is if that's what's going on . So all of the unchaste behavior that a person is doing , that's not the main problem . It is a problem , I think , so many of us and you shit on the head , christy .

If I open this up , if I let you see who I really am , you're going to reject me , you're not going to accept me and then and then , even more on this , I have this thing right . I'm holding it like this .

For those who are , you'll have to watch the video if you're just listening to this on the podcast , right , but this thing I'm holding , I'm gripping my fist so tight . If I open this up , I'll have nothing . So it's better for me to be comfortably numb , dead , cold carcass . Are you going to get this to strip it out of my hand ? But that's the lie .

The lie is that if you expose this , that you won't be lovable . No , it's right now , in that , you won't be lovable . No , it's right now , in that moment , that we are lovable , and that's what I had to work through here , and this is a bar none . Every single client that comes to our doors right Is to open it up .

Right now we're lovable , we're loved by our Father in Heaven . We're loved by Jesus Christ , we're loved by the Spirit and by the church , and this is the secret . This is the secret . The Catholic Church is not a museum for saints , but is a , as it's said , a hospital for sinners . And , as Pope Francis has said , the church is a field unit .

To go out and this is again one of the things we're doing in this podcast to go out to the highways and byways . People would never really darken the door of a church , but the catholic sobriety they catholics are into sobriety . What's all that about ? Come here , they click on this . Maybe they have something to say here . Maybe I grew up but I walked away .

Maybe I should darken the door of that church . Right , and it's us we're the most wounded christy that we get the opportunity to be a beacon , to say I don't have it all together . You're married . I'll talk to your husband later . You can talk to my wife later . We've been this whole thing right , no pressure there . Now it's getting real .

These people don't have it together fully there , but maybe they're willing to hear my story .

Maybe there is a space to be seen , to be known and to be loved , which , I would argue , are three of the six and the deepest desire of the human heart , and the other three are to reciprocate , to see others , to know others and to love others oh yeah , yes , thank you for all of that and you it .

And I know , with pornography it's a little bit different because that can be kind of behind closed doors . But then again , like I've talked to some people that , like guys , that they just did it with their friends , like they found their dad's , how do you see that usually coming to fruition for people ? Is it typically for the people you work with ?

Is it typically begun in private and they're just seeking love and they're trying to find it in that way , or is it more of like a community type atmosphere ?

So what we can see is , again , the unchaste behavior is a cover job for the deeper wounds that are going there . Something is perceived or real , lacking right , and in this the discovery points , for , whereas alcohol may be that of a shared common experience here across the board of vast majority of people , of the vast majority of people , again they find this .

You mentioned about the terms of Playboy or still images . It's getting older and older now that people are like what's Playboy , right ? What are they finding on their phone , social media , things like that , and a lot of the images .

There may not be nakedness , but any , and let's just define a term appropriately Pornography is any image , written or audio , that's trying to get us to use another person as a means of one's own selfish sexual gratification . So that makes this much bigger than just the stuff you would see in triple X or hardcore pornography .

It's movies , television magazines , it's obviously internet , and this is not to put a blame on anyone , but it could be based on a lack of education or a worth of themselves a woman dressing a certain way , or a guy dressing a certain way , right ?

So , with this here , when those images are discovered , for a vast majority of men and an increasing number of women , the first response is hide this , I found buried treasure . I can't let anybody know this , because there is something , especially in the Catholic world . There's the good old Catholic guilt . Right , we know something's wrong with that .

And especially , right , mom and dad never talked to me about human sexual . There was never healthy , open , honest conversations . What is supposed to be grown up to be able to talk through these things so that when these emotions get eroticized , there's a context to deal with ?

I have none of that , and that was my world , right , and that's the world of a lot of people , and I can't tell you the amount of clients that come to us , like just in meeting one , as we're starting to get into a person's history . I've never shared this with anyone , okay , so opening that space up is really important .

So this is going back to your question especially . This is buried treasure , but something in me wants to share this and and because , as you know , secrets have power and um , and to add to that , emotions buried alive are , are still alive . So again , the guilt , the shame , the self-hatred .

And there's other ones there that can be in , that can be cousins of those three . If we don't talk to somebody about it , it's going to come out another way . So we may have heard the terms . For me , this was my pattern of emotional I call it emotional behavior was lust , then anger , then control , then fear , right , and these things don't just go away .

So maybe a person is buttoned up right , is a clean cut person , right , they're doing pornography on the side , maybe they do speak respectfully to women , maybe they are a good boyfriend , but they got this anger thing . Man , when that comes out , it is rough and we've got to ask these questions when does that come from ?

Because God didn't make us to be these road rage people . Where is that coming from ? And I would say , if you've got emotions right and this is , we'd be a detective and I don't want to play a master suspicion game . I don't want to play that . You're guilty until proven innocent .

We don't want to play that game If a person has these wild emotional swings , right , start to ask especially if you're a young lady , right , involved with a young man , right , and you care about this young man , and vice versa , right , these emotions come out here , or start asking them questions when is pornography in the past ?

Or where is pornography currently right ? How do you view this right ? Because these things don't just go away . No-transcript .

had to put a kibosh on that . But I think that can just be a gateway into something even bigger . And then there was something else that you were talking about oh , the shedding light . It's the same thing with our alcoholism or with hiding the pornography and things .

If we keep it hidden , if we keep it close to ourselves , it is going to come out in those ways like you talked about it will . It can come out in anger , especially if we're confronted , or especially if somebody is like I notice that you're drinking a little bit more than you used to , or you seem really dissatisfied or like really on edge with me .

Is there something else going on ? And so that , can you know , create anxiety because they don't want to be found out . And so then they might tell half-truths or no-truths or , you know , it comes out as defensiveness .

So , because we've talked a lot about faith and that's actually , you know , at the forefront , I think that I'm very forward with my faith , and so are you .

So , in your experience , how can unveiling the tactics of the evil one keep addictions hidden and private and lead to a path of healing and openness and spiritual growth for individuals who are struggling with pornography or other unhealthy attachments ?

God created you , created you for love and for life and to create beauty , to be a part of beauty and to create beauty . Then there's somebody who hates you and he hates our Father . And we can say that all of creation , all of the war that we find , is because of a father wound , a father wound that the evil one had , and he's trying to get back .

What better way to get back at one's father ? And they go after what he loves . Right , and in a certain sense , god does love satan because he's his creation and and god can do nothing but love , right . But obviously he knows no sense . He's not going to have his mind changed , because he cannot , because he's once and done , he made that decision .

So in this here , uh , satan and his minions , not those ones on this fibril me , but much more , much more dangerous , right , by by the way , this fibril me . 4 was pure stupidity . So I I do think that was dangerous and I was just dumb , but anyway I I'll get off my soap on that .

But from here , like , but these are a lot more sinister than any of those minions and they desire to drag us to hell . For us to choose hell . That is complete isolation , right .

And so if we think about the wounds that you know , all of us have our wounds , all of us from original sin and then with the if original sin is the bullet and that bullet gets taken out by a baptism , we have the bullet wound , the hole that is left there and that comes through concupiscence , where the desire to be selfish comes up .

And especially if we have these God-given , genuine desires for erotic love , we have a desire to be known , to be seen and to be loved , right when that's not being met in a way that we get it . So our parents might have been best parents ever , but we didn't receive it that way .

Or maybe they showed too much attention to my brother and they kind of ignored me , or maybe I'm number six of 11 and I just got lost in the path then , or , god forbid , there was abuse that came in from maybe a parent or stepfather , or maybe stuff that happened in college . These things don't just go away , it needs to be healed .

But if we don't know they can actually be healed , then even one that can be right there to be whispering and pressing on the uglies what are the uglies ? You're not good enough , you're not pretty enough , you don't have what it takes , Just give up . These are the uglies , right , and these elements are lies straight from the pit of hell .

But if the world loves bad news , why ? Because it's sensational . But the reality is our heavenly father , through the spirit , whispers , but he'll let us go down a dark path , for whatever reason , because he likes an underdog story , but especially because he respects our free will .

Right With that , and so with here is a calling to realize , to be aware of that we're at war . Most Catholics are asleep and they're being decimated and most Catholics are not being catechized and abused by the pastor and we're being just destroyed in our faith . So what's the answer ? Get educated in your faith . Know that we are at war .

Know that there are the ability to really fight faith . So what's the answer ? Get educated in your faith . Know that we are war . Know that there are the ability to really fight this . So let's throw out some of those out and let's make this very practical the rosary . The rosary can stop wars . It can stop wars in your life . Auxilium Christianorum .

Okay , is a group of I forget how many people are involved with this every day to pray these prayers here and then ? A book that has been very helpful has been a book called Deliverance Prayer for Laity by Father Chad Dorpner , great resource , one of the ones that I pray every day , called the Perimeter Prayer . I believe it's page 39 .

I memorized it and there's been one and we've noticed a whole lot less arguments in our house . We're not perfect . We solve arguments . I wish I could solve that problem . No , it's my own pig-headedness and pride usually get from that , right . But these are three major elements .

And then also including again , this is not about being scrupulous , we want to be very careful there , right , it's grace must be that is leading and is going to be the one . That's that element we're going to use that terminology that brings the salvation . So one thing is bring St Michael into the prayer .

Bring St Michael into the prayer and even if you , you can do it every hour , nothing scrupulous , but that whole thing can help with identification of when we're being pressed on and then to be able to work through

it . And then the other piece I would add here , talking about the uglies two things we talk about in freedom coaching . We talk about the uglies and the inner vows . Uglies are those phrases that we believe about ourselves , that are identity statements . I'm stupid , ugly , whatever I'm , can't do it , so we want to .

There's a whole process we use to rewrite those so that we begin to speak to prudence there . Because remember everything , the uh , all of the world , all of creation , was created by the word , and the word incarnate is jesus christ . We're hard to hard to called to participate in that creation by speaking into existence here .

That's why the whole , whoever said sticks and stones may break my bones , but words will never hurt me . That person has a special place in purgatory , frankly , ok , because words have power . And that's why especially why you're spending time where I don't know we're 35 minutes into this podcast . Right , we want to get into .

The word can save things and then you can change things . And so when we begin to speak truth into our identity , heck , we might begin to believe it . And when we begin to believe it . Satan is terrified because a person , a man or woman , who has faith that God is directing them to do something great , is unstoppable .

And , as John Vianney was told by Satan in one of those messages , because he would spend a lot of time in confession and said if there were five more priests like you , you would destroy my kingdom . We may not be priests in the sacramental order , but we are priests profiting king on a baptismal order . We're called the interim , as the truth molded .

So , going after the uglies and then the inner vows , really , briefly , these are the promises that we make that are just not helpful I'll never get a date , or I'm always going to screw things up , or I should just kill myself Right , always or never when those come in .

So the whole process we use of working , of identification of those vows and when we can know them , see them they are then we can do something about it . And this is where , again , being authentically catholic , there's this guy by the name of jesus demolishing our uglies and vows and replacing them with the truth and the man or woman who's living .

Some of the truth is the truth that sets us free and that erotic desire that we have that was drawing us into pornography . Untwist the lie . It's the call to love and embody love , male or female , making that gift of self to others .

But we talked a lot about all of those things and then just the power in the name of Jesus , like you were saying , could just say like if those thoughts come up , it's not just praying it away , it's actually commanding it away in the name of Jesus and it will go , handing it away in the name of Jesus and it will go .

So some of the things that I do with my clients that it sounds like you do also is I talk to my clients about having declarations , and declarations are different than affirmations , because it's not like I'm pretty , I'm good , I'm , you know , whatever A declaration we go through and or my client goes through and finds scripture that speaks to them , that's meaningful

to them , that really touches on the obstacles that they're facing , those lies that keep creeping up into their mind , finding those , creating declarations out of those and then replacing those lies with a truth .

And I think that is just so powerful and it's something you know , that you obviously use and have great success with , and my clients really have responded so well to it , because it a lot of times we think , oh , I shouldn't be thinking that , or you know , a lie comes up , like you were saying , like I'm not good enough or I'll never get it , or I have no

willpower , or I'll never get a date , or whatever it is . But when you replace that with the word of God , with the truth of God , with his promises , then that is going to be real , lasting , sustained change that changes us from the inside out , and then we can share that with others and people are like how are you so joyful ?

Or how did you stop doing X , Y , Z ? And it's just knowing who we are and whose we are , and I think that's key as Christians .

So the idea which , gentlemen , don't ever say that , right , just don't think about it . Good luck with that , good luck , good luck . And I'll see you at your funeral . And I'm not facing it off by my own power . We tried this on our own power . We lose in the name of Jesus . So this would be a simple prayer .

Again , I'll steal from encounter and I have a heart for encounter In the spirit of affliction and name it , whatever it is to leave now in Jesus' name . Right , this is going to be a big part here in what we're talking .

And the other element I would add for any of our listeners is emotions are neither bad nor good , but the evil one can amass and come under there . Right ? Do I feel hatred , or feel angry , or feel depressed , or I feel sad ? Right , he may be . He or his minions may be pressing on those here . So what we can do is .

Call it the spirit of affliction , of sadness . Again , it's not wrong to feel sad , but if it's simply being cloaked and being used , if we are praying that prayer , we're praying in the name of Jesus . If it's just a spiritual warfare element , it will flee and what will replace it is peace .

It will flee and what will replace it is peace , some element of peace . Only god as the he has a monopoly on peace . Even one cannot touch that . Now . If we find that it's not leaving , then there's some other psychological work that needs to , needs to happen , so a coach like you or me are able to identify , to begin to work through that stuff .

And that's why freedom coaching has been so effective as opposed to a lot of other programs is because if we don't deal with what the stuff under the hood there , then we can give you all the skills and techniques . But it won't stay , and I'm a type , a kind of guy I want to actually solve a problem and do it in a relatively quick period of time .

Right , you watch pornography or you engage in unchaste behavior , or you drink alcohol , or you over scroll or over stop or whatever it is that you're struggling with and that just packs snow around that ear pin and it helps for a while and that's why we keep going back to it .

Obviously , like you alluded to earlier , there are definitely chemical reasons that we keep going back to it . We also are just seeking that buffering , we're seeking some of that just relief from whatever it is .

But pretty soon the snow just like melts away and then we're left with the thing , plus whatever else you know comes after that anxiety , depression , shame and whatever else . But when you use tools like this , like what you've described , that is , I say it's like making a pearl , because I was in the jewelry industry for years .

You have that irritant and then it's putting , like a nacre , a layer of nacre around that irritant , until you're left with this beautiful treasure , this pearl , and that is like a lasting change . It doesn't mean that everything is perfect or you're not going to have irritants , or your marriage is great and your kids are perfect and never do anything .

It just means that you now have the tools to deal with things in a way that you know it's good for you , it's good for your family , and you're not just putting a bandaid over something , over a gaping wound . You're actually addressing that wound and healing it so that you can then break free of that forever .

You work with people so that they can break free of that attraction , and I think that's amazing .

So the question is , how do we want to view it ? A lot of the work that we do is mindset coaching . It do we want to view it ? A lot of the work that we do is mindset coaching , is mindset work and helping our clients find a mind shift .

Because if I know what it's like being trapped in the guilt , the shame , the self-hate with thinking I will never get free , and then I also know the difference .

And now , and we're creating an army of people who are experiencing joy , who are experiencing freedom in their own being , comfortable in their own skin , genuine freedom warriors , not simply freedom from that I've been liberated . Now , what is my freedom for ? Because it's simply freedom from and that can be turned inward . Look what I've done . That can be prideful .

Instead of what is this freedom for ? How am I called to re-engage in my community , in my marriage with my family , with my parents , maybe my grandmother who's in the nursing home , or that homeless guy down the street , or that place where I go to buy an overpriced cup of coffee , where she's wearing dragon tattoos and has the pentagram right .

That I can engage this person , see them as a person , love them as a person and then invite God into that conversation , implicitly or maybe explicitly .

And that's what you're working to do , and that's what I'm working to do and a lot of other great , amazing coaches of all types are trying to do . And you know , it's just , it's that using our spiritual gifts , using our charisms , working together for the glory of God , to glorify him . Because , like you were saying , just to say , like I don't drink anymore .

You know it's great , but I don't drink anymore . And it's because of the goodness of God , because I will tell you , when I cried out to God , I asked him , I says , Lord , please remove the desire to drink . And he did . But I had to be at my lowest , Like I had been sober for three months .

But it was so hard , it was just like white knuckling it and just even going to meetings . It was so hard . But when I cried out to God , he helped me . He was there , he swooped in , kind of like I've been waiting for you .

I've been waiting for you to ask me that and sometimes we have to ask more than once or twice or three times , but just keep asking and keep knocking , because God wants you free , wants you free .

I could talk to you for hours and I've so enjoyed our conversation and I definitely want to have you or others from Freedom Coaching back on , but I would love it if you could just tell people where they can find you , if you have any resources available and all the things .

I wrote a book called Redeemed Vision . The final edits were done on a 14-year project the day that Hugh Hefner died . So can anything good come from Galilee or Nazareth ? Can anything good come from Cleveland ? We'll find out If you have access to Forum . There's a 12-part series with yours truly called Redeeming Our Vision .

This is the study guide that goes along with this , which is really good for parishes , not accusatory , but really a way that we can start to talk about this , because , again , it's a 572,000 pound elephant . As I said , it needs to be brought up , to be brought up . We need to address this . We are working on some other programs for women in betrayal trauma .

Stay tuned for that . Please pray for that and if you are feeling frisky , we won't shy away from receiving donations because of work that we're doing , especially for building these other programs . But we work with clients all over the world .

Some of these clients cannot afford what we need to live on as coaches , and so if you are willing to donate to support this work , we're grateful .

And for anyone who is interested , has an issue yourself or maybe a loved one is dealing with this , send them this podcast , send them to our website and if you sign up using I think we're going with Sober Freedom , where you're going to get the first meeting free .

. Well , thank you so much , steve . It was so great having you here .

I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at thecatholicsobrietycoach . I look forward to speaking to you next time , and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you . You are not alone .